Legion World Forums LEGION COMPANION Dr. Gym'll's Cultural Rarities Superman, Action Comics, and Supergirl

Does anyone else feel that War of Supermen and the last two years of Super comics amounted to nothing?

Yeah, it all seemed too tidy -- most Kryptonians dead, a few hundred re-imprisoned in the Phantom Zone, now with a REAL reason to hate Earth and Superman. Alura's sudden death forecloses what had been, to me, a really interesting source of conflict within the family El.

I suppose there WILL be consequences here -- Superman rebuilding trust in people, but that's the 3rd time since his "death"? Who wants to read that AGAIN, especially since it happened SO recently with 1 Year Later?

One other quick but to me very important thing -- in the original Superman continuity, Kandor was always this source of hope, that someday some of the best that was Krypton could be restored and be a key part of maintaining Superman's legacy into the future. That's all gone now, and that just makes me sad. It would have been nice if the New Kryptonians did not turn out to be all scumbags, which is how I feel they ended up looking.

Yup.

Agreed 100%. Feels like a major waste of a great concept. Perfect example of modern creators failing to capture the spirit of what made comics of past ears great and instead trying to tell a destructive story where everything is destructive and nothing of any value is added to the mythos.

Coming soon:

JIMMY OLSEN, CHILD MOLESTER!


-and-


LOIS CHEATS ON CLARK!!!


(just kidding.... but you never know these days)

So... Superman #700.

Did anyone else make the mistake of buying this complete dudsville of an issue?

A title accomplishes the extremely rare feat of making it to 700 issues and THIS is how DC celebrates that fact?!?

With a bland, pointless tale by James Robinson that just exists to wrap up the absolutely woeful New Krypton storyline (like any of the readers jumping on with this issue care about that mess!).

With a fun but out of place Dick Grayson-Robin story that has a small guest appearance by Superman in it.

And with possibly the most ham-fisted, in-your-face-with-worthiness prologue to a story that will be continued next issue by JMS.

And that's it. No pin-ups or character bios or fun ideas or rememberances or anything like that. No, instead we just get those three duds and then 10 PAGES of DC advertising upcoming Superman and Green Arrow books. 10 PAGES of that!

So to sum up, Superman #700, its great milestone issue, contains an epilogue to one of the worst Superman stories ever, a fill-in story, an extremely disappointing prologue to another story... and 10 pages of adverts.



DC just continues to plumb new depths of ineptitude at the moment as far as I'm concerned. They need regime change at that place worse than North Korea does!

I liked the Jurgens story, but also felt that it was a bit out of place.

I picked it up hoping to be intrigued ny JMS' story...glad I'll be able to save that money.

I'm still scratching my head over the big nothing that was Superman #700.
What a disappointing issue.

I did not enjoy the Robinson story. The Robin story was okay, but as Blacula said, felt out of place. The JMS intro did generate some interest from me, along with this week's press releases. Superman walking across America, featuring different cities and some fan interaction? Hmm. I'll pick up the first couple of issues, at least.

It sounds like I haven't missed much since economics compelled me to give up superhero comics a few years ago (second half of 2007, IIRC).

^ Certainly not with the Superman books KC.

The New Krypton storyline was a great premise but DC and it's cabal of crappy writers/editors dropped the ball on it almost from day 1 and then concluded it in the absolute worst way possible in War of the Supermen.

I'll be surprised if it's ever mentioned again. Which is both good (because who wants to be reminded of that disaster) and bad (because some major things happened in it that really should be addressed).

I just hope JMS can turn it around when his run starts for real next issue, because I've got this book on my pull but this prologue filled me with 0% excitement.

The whole thing JMS is doing seems like it hinges on a extrememly flimsy plot point. I don't think it'll hold up for an arc. Unless he's able to spin it into something more.

Just finished Superman #700.

While it wasn't a disaster, it might as well have been an 80-page Giant or some other special. There was no sense of occasion befitting the 700th issue of a comic featuring one of the most iconic characters ever. The only thing that came close was Robinson's recommitment to the Clark/Lois relationship, and who knows where that will go under JMS.

Thumbs up for the first leg of Superman's new journey. The detractors are lining up to take shots at this JMS experiment. Preachy is a word I've heard a few times. Not really. He seems more to be asking questions than providing pat answers. This is original and much more interesting to me than just another alien invasion or slugfest with the super villain of the month. Not that I have anything against alien invasions or super villains. It's just nice to see somebody try something different.

Read this on the shelf of my cbs. It just made me think
why is superman doing a forest gump?

I decided not to buy Superman 700, and I'm on the fence about 701 (and beyond). The more I think about it, the more I'm furious about how New Krypton proceeded and ended. There are, I guess, 2 schools of thought about how Krypton should relate to Superman. One school says that Kryptonians were a heroic and noble species, perhaps a little complacent, caught off guard by an unprecedented and unbelieable cataclysm. A civilization of learning and accomplishment that inspires Superman every bit as much as his mid-American upbringing with the Kents. This was more or less the view on Krypton up until Byrne. Not a perfect species, but a civilization capable of producing a galactic hero like Superman, especially when all of that Kryptonian legacy is re-invigorated on Earth. Byrne's approach was that Krypton basically deserved to die -- a sterile, worthless group that Superman is better off without. I THOUGHT the point of New Krypton was to give us a more nuanced view of Kryptonians, but fall squarely in the Silver Age rather than the Byrne-Age camp. Instead, we get 2 years of irredeemable class prejudice and political military scheming climaxing in the annihilation of the species, by humans no less. And while I enjoyed seeing Superman's character contrasted against, say, the New Krypton military, I saw very little that would make me root for the survival of New Krypton.

And to make all of this even worse, we don't really see Superman processing any of this cataclysm! I don't want to see him lying in bed eating oreos, but I would like to see SOMETHING, some takeaway for him, and I'm not sure the walk across America does it for me. Contrast that with the Supergirl book, where Kara is repulsed by the conduct of New Krypton and its annihilation, and wants to set it behind her and just be Linda Lang. THAT'S a reaction that makes sense dramatically, and it tees up potentially good stories about how Supergirl will integrate her heritage and her new life on Earth and the loss of her parents and friends.

I'm open to persuasion on this. Am I missing something? Does issue 701 speak to any of this?

I've bought 701 but won't read it for awhile. (I'm perpetually behind!) But I've a feeling JMS won't be exploring the aftermath of New Krypton within the storyline.

If that's the case, I'll be pretty happy because New Krypton was pretty much a mess from the point Geoff left the Superman books onward. (Well, it wasn't making me do cartwheels at that point either, but I digress...) I suspect it won't be referred to a whole lot outside Supergirl's book where it makes the most sense to do so.

The whole thing was just total shit from the get-go as you knew with utter certainty that the reset button was going to be hit at some point in some manner. No WAY was a whole planetful of powered Kryptonians gonna be allowed to exist in perpetuity. It was just a matter of whether they were going to be banished to the Phantom Zone, re-shrunk and put back in their bottle or slaughtered like animals. As bloodthirsty as DC editorial's been lately, the actual outcome was unsurprising.

I don't really understand why I spent my money on that crap when I knew what was coming. I guess the initial storyline with Geoff's involvement showed some promise. After that, it was hard to resist a Superman comic featuring Mon-El. Supergirl, I would have bought regardless because of the quality of her creative team. World of New Krypton statred off really promising with some terrific art, but the wheels started coming off halfway through. Action, however, I didn't fall for; I gave that one three issues and dropped it like a hot potato. Nothing remotely enticing over there.

I suppose in the end I stuck it out to see how it ended and how right I would be about it. Didn't hurt that there were Legion connections interspersed. Honestly, about the only keepers in the whole saga were most of the Supergirl issues, Robinson's Guardian and Jimmy Olsen Specials and maybe Geoff's special that kicked it off. And maybe some of the Legion appearances for a good moment or two.

Otherwise, New Krypton was either forgettable or downright offensive taken as a whole. Having Lois Lane's dad be a total Machiavellian bringer of genocide was just awful. And how exactly was Reactron carrying a doomsday device capable of destroying an entire planet?!?! Lazy, careless writing all around.

So if JMS wants to put all that crap behind Superman, I'm all for it. As far as I'm concerned, if Kal doesn't mention it at all while he discovers America, I'm more than good. If fans want to see this walkabout as Kal's reaction to what happened, then I'm fine with that, too.

I wasted tons of money and time reading that stuff that I'll never get back. I just hope that JMS (and Paul Cornell on Action) can cleanse my palette of the bad taste the Superman titles have left in my mouth! In any case I'm looking forward to what Gates and Igle can do on Supergirl without having to constantly tie in to a creatively oppressive never-ending crossover.

I actually agree 100% with Lardy on all counts. I feel like I got suckered too with a shit story that lasted forever. I hope I never hear about it again.

I'm behind too but I can say I'm enthusiastic about all 3 titles going forward.

I will say that I definitely like JMS's general idea for his storyline. Smaller, down-to-Earth stories might just be what the doctor ordered. I can't recall if anything similar has ever been done with Supes on an extended basis. Honestly, I think the closest we've ever gotten were those stories where Supes would answer his fan mail around Christmas time. (I loved those by the way.) Brave and the Bold has renewed my faith in him, so I hope JMS delivers what I need him to.

Haven't read Paul Cornell's first issue yet, but I'm encouraged by what I've heard so far. If he's gonna focus on Luthor and give him some much-needed nuance, that sounds like a great idea. Luthor's been reduced to little more than a thug in most of his appearances the last few years. I've seen nothing to remind me what a great character he can be. Hopefully Paul, who brings a terrific if overlooked pedigree with him from Marvel, will be just what the character needs. It certainly doesn't hurt that he has Pete Woods with him!

And back to New Krypton, for a moment: Zod. There were times that he was given SO much nuance and gray area in New Krypton! But then it all gets flushed away and ignored! WTF?!?!

Thanks, guys! I should emulate your attitudes and just forget about it. I'm just SOOO tired of seeing good ideas, like confronting Kal-El with the reality of Krypton, forcing him to lose it again, this time as an adult activity trying to save it. THOSE COULD HAVE BEEN GOOD STORIES, DANGIT! And yes, Zod was the only interesting character, and he was REALLY interesting all along, but the payoff/climax totally undercut that. Ugh! Based on the preview, I may buy 701 and Action (which I haven't bought since Johns left it). Wasn't James Robinson supposed to be a great writer? People revere Star Man. Golden Age was fantastic (and a lOONNNGG time ago). What happened to this guy?

Deep breath, calm down, go to my happy place.

Yeah, Chinner, many of us are wondering "Whatever Happened to the James Robinson Who Could WRITE?!?!" I think the answer is James was never made to write comics that are heavy in continuity and crossover a lot with others. Starman, Golden Age, Vigilante, Leave It to Chance...those were all very different books that were largely self-contained. In his defense you actually could see some of that old spark in his Guardian and Jimmy Olsen Specials and maybe an issue or half-issue here and there of Superman. I don't know what he did and how much was Greg Rucka but the early issues of World of NK had some life to them as well. A lot of us saw that old spark in the one-issue Starman revival, too.

I think if Robinson had been able to approach Superman on a more personal level, he could have done wonders with the supporting cast especially. Still, no one put a gun to his head and made him come aboard when he did, so it is what it is. If it's true that he's doing another Shade series, I'd definitely be down for that.

And, yes, New Krypton as a storyline had HUGEMONGOUS potential! That's both why I bought the damn thing and why I'm so outraged with what became of it! The endless potential was wasted and dumbed down insanely! This was such an unusual opportunity to tell a nuanced, character-altering tale of a man who suddenly had an opportunity to connect with his people. WASTED!!!

If you're on the fence about JMS's storyline, Chinner, I'd suggest you wait for our reviews to pour in and decide for yourself afterwards. Hell, you can even trade-wait and, if it's good, save a few bucks down the line. This may very well be a storyline that reads better in a trade, or maybe it'll be perfect for monthly doses? Either way, I doubt you'll have too much problem getting a few after the fact. If it sells well, there'll probably be a 2nd printing. If not, it'll sit on the rack a while.

So I finally got around to reading Superman #700 after hearing about the disappointment everyone had towards it. I admit the Robinson opening story was absolutely that disappointing but at least I feel like the last few years of Superman stories are at an end and we can move forward. I want to forget that ever happened, as Lardy and I discussed with DC above.

However, I did find the Jurgens story very charming and reminiscent of his one-off stories of the past (especially his amazing Christmas stories every year) and was glad for its inclusion. Reading all the way through the issue it was almost like they put it in there to say to me: okay, here’s a reminder of a fun little Superman story to erase the past few years from your mind.

Then, I got the JMS story, which was really just a teaser, but I found it to be a strong little start. There wasn’t much meat to it but it did serve to raise my curiosity and get me excited about what’s ahead. I’m one of those posters who thinks what JMS is doing in B&B is nothing short of spectacular. (Legion fans who tuned in only for the LSH and Subs two-parter unfortunately did not get the best taste for that). So I’m actually quite optimistic about the future for the Superman comics.

Compounded on that, I’m actually excited about the franchise as a whole. Each comic appears as if it will be standing on its own and right now that is sorely needed right now.

I’m not that familiar with Paul Cornell but I hear good things and am willing to give him a chance. Lex Luthor is desperately needed for the ‘next step’ of his long existence—he’s been stagnant in my mind for a long, long time. A real draw for me is the artwork by Pete Woods whose work throughout the last few years has been at times the shining beacon of greatness in a sea of ‘meh’. And I’m absolutely super-excited about a Jimmy Olsen back-up.

Supergirl by Gates & Igle has been the best super-title for years now but hampered by the stupid never-ending crossovers. Now that it can stand on its own again, I have high hopes it will return to its awesomeness.

And the Superboy series is something I’m actually quite excited about! Bringing in Lemuire to write it was a stroke of genius IMO and from what I’ve seen in interviews, its thus far the single best premise Kon-El has ever had for a series (and I collected his entire 100 issue first series, which I loved, but I admit the Hawaii thing was a bit too over the top).

So I’m optimistic. I have a few Super-comics with me at work today and I want to read them when I can sneak them in later.

So I read the first issues of the new runs of Superman and Action Comics:

I found JMS’s first Superman issue to actually quite good! Like Jerry says above, the word “preachy” definitely doesn’t apply here; rather, Superman is asking hard questions and searching for answers, all the while presenting a point of view where all of us have to work together to figure them out. When I heard of the initial premise of the run, I was slightly skeptical, but JMS’s solid writing comes through here. This really is the most ‘down to Earth’ set-up I’ve read in comics; and a very human Superman is present in combination with a very majestic and larger than life Superman. I’m impressed.

Also impressive was the artwork by Eddie Barrow, who was excellent back on 52. I’m glad to see him here, as under Giffen’s tutelage he really came into his own in terms of pacing and keeping the pages exciting. I enjoyed the way he drew Superman’s cape flowing.

As for Action Comics, I didn’t dislike it at all, but it hasn’t jumped out at me yet. I’m still not 100% sure what to expect from Cornell’s run here. Two things I liked where the twists: the ‘fake Lois’, which I saw coming, and the last page villain, who has a lot more oomph given his last appearances in a major storyarc. Pete Woods did a great job as usual, but there wasn’t enough excitement in this issue to take advantage of his skills—I hope that changes.

All in all, I’d give JMS’s Superman an ‘A’, with Action Comics getting a ‘B-/C+’ with room for improvement.