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LSH vs. LSV
#594754 05/31/10 12:59 PM
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When DC decided to move several of their books into "Baxter" format, the Legion, along with Titans and Infinity Inc., were chosen as the first books to be published in this way. Since Legion and Titans were also concurrently being published on the newsstand as well, that meant that we were getting two books a month!

While the Titans creators chose to tell their stories in a linear manner, the Legion books were happening concurrently. And while this made the Legion stories feel "bigger" and part of a much larger tapestry, if you were only able to get the newsstand edition, you were only getting half the story, although the creators were very careful not to give too much away.

The first of the Legion Baxter stories was the Super-Villain war. The LSV had taken over Orando, although we would not learn the identity of the planet for a few issues. Projectra and Karate Kid had been off-world on their honeymoon, allowing the LSV to get a foothold on the planet in their absence.

The LSV had sworn a blood oath that each of them would kill a Legionnaire. In addition, they also planned to transport Orando into a new universe where they could rule without interruption. These goals seem odd to me. Mostly because if they succeeded in killing the Legionnaires, why not stay in their own universe. If they simply wanted to rule, why bother killing the Legionnaires. I think the answer is that while some of the team simply wanted to prusue their own interests, others wanted revenge even more, thus the LSV plan covered both. I guess.

It's not long before the LSH and the LSV come into conflict. The LSV enacts a strike and flee policy, hitting hard then escapting, thanks to their teleporter Z'ymyr.

The LSV gets in several good licks, and succeed in moving Orando into a limbo-like dimension along with several Legionnaires. This includes the returned Projectra and Karate Kid. Somehow, in the middle of all of this Lightning Lass regains her powers.

There are two "OH WOW" moments in the story.

The first is at the end of #4, just after Karate Kid sacrifices his life to save Orando. We see Karate Kid's corpse, then the 6 helpless Legionnaires, and then Ayla with the tagline, "and one is coming back, to risk her live for theirs." Something else else about that last scene gave me chills.

The second moments is in #5, when Projectra breaks the neck of Nemesis Kid in combat. A Legionnaire kills! An amazing moment for the former Princess who has spend much of Levitz's run off-camera, although her story was continually moving forward.

Visually it was excellent, and my biggest gripe remains that if you were only able to read the newsstand story, you were missing nuances that were being played out here, in the Bexter series and vice-versa. Reading the stories together gives a much fuller tapestry and a much more fulfilling reading experience.


Touch the magic...
Re: LSH vs. LSV
#594755 05/31/10 01:01 PM
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This is really when I began reading the Legion.

Classic stuff!

Re: LSH vs. LSV
#594756 05/31/10 01:31 PM
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I was only able to get the newsstand version for a very long time until I finally got a subscription. I did make it to the comic store every few months and was able to get #4.

Reading all of this at once has been quite a fun experience. It's one thing to read stories on their own, but to read them within the entire series as a whole, well, it's been quite amazing.


Touch the magic...
Re: LSH vs. LSV
#594757 05/31/10 03:46 PM
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The LSH vs. LSV arc may not make a great deal of sense (and Giffen's art in the first two issues makes it even more confusing) but this is one of my favorite Levitz arcs. It's such a RUSH! And I found myself really WANTING Projectra to do something as drastic as she did; after all, it may be morally dubious, but in the end it is just fantasy.

Steve Lightle makes his Legion debut in issues 3-5, working over Giffen layouts, and the combination is explosive! Lightle's clean, attractive pencils are so much more eye-pleasing than Giffen's, while Giffen's dynamic layouts are stronger than anything Lightle was able to achieve on his own.

My one objection, and I suspect this was not in Levitz's script but got tossed in there by Giffen, is the scene where Sun Emperor burns a servant girl to death. That is freaking disgusting and utterly gratuitous, anticipating by two decades the kind of grue we've gotten steadily from DC in recent years.


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Re: LSH vs. LSV
#594758 05/31/10 04:04 PM
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In retrospect, there's really so much wrong with the story that it's not even funny.

My biggest pet peeve is that Karate Kid sacrifices himself to destroy the machine that the LSV are using to move Orando to another dimension... and then at the end Projectra decides to move it anyway!

Still... my 9 year old self loved it!

Re: LSH vs. LSV
#594759 05/31/10 04:09 PM
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It's a colorful rollercoaster ride, plain and simple!


Read LEGIONS OF 7 WORLDS in the Bits forum:

Retroboot (Earth-7.5) Arc 1 (COMPLETED)

Retroboot (Earth-7.5) Arc 2 (WORK IN PROGRESS)

"Don't look for role models, girls, BE the role model."

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Re: LSH vs. LSV
#594760 05/31/10 04:31 PM
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If it were coming out now, I'd be buying it in a second, minor plotholes and all. Great, great Legion story.

Some of the most explosive multiple-Legionnaire fight sequences ever in the series history.

Re: LSH vs. LSV
#594761 05/31/10 04:34 PM
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Let's hope Levitz is currently building toward something like this or like GDS or like the Sensor Girl/Fatal Five Saga.


Read LEGIONS OF 7 WORLDS in the Bits forum:

Retroboot (Earth-7.5) Arc 1 (COMPLETED)

Retroboot (Earth-7.5) Arc 2 (WORK IN PROGRESS)

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Re: LSH vs. LSV
#594762 05/31/10 04:48 PM
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Multi-part stories are his specialty, so I wouldn't be a bit surprised if a big story is coming up.


Touch the magic...
Re: LSH vs. LSV
#594763 05/31/10 05:22 PM
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Quote
Originally posted by Cobalt Kid:
Some of the most explosive multiple-Legionnaire fight sequences ever in the series history.
Definitely some of the best action sequences in Legion history.

Re: LSH vs. LSV
#594764 05/31/10 05:24 PM
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I also think that this the story where Levitz finally "got" Ayla.

I only wish the epilogue spotlighting her had been better drawn. Joe Orlando was not my favorite artist on a good day, but this was clearly a rush job.


Read LEGIONS OF 7 WORLDS in the Bits forum:

Retroboot (Earth-7.5) Arc 1 (COMPLETED)

Retroboot (Earth-7.5) Arc 2 (WORK IN PROGRESS)

"Don't look for role models, girls, BE the role model."

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Re: LSH vs. LSV
#594765 05/31/10 05:28 PM
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Hmm... I don't actually remember the Ayla spotlight that well.

Zymyr is just about the only truly interesting new villain that Levitz introduced, however.

Re: LSH vs. LSV
#594766 05/31/10 05:29 PM
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I always had a sentimental spot for Flare and Caress.


Read LEGIONS OF 7 WORLDS in the Bits forum:

Retroboot (Earth-7.5) Arc 1 (COMPLETED)

Retroboot (Earth-7.5) Arc 2 (WORK IN PROGRESS)

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Re: LSH vs. LSV
#594767 05/31/10 05:31 PM
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Yeah, they had potential...

Re: LSH vs. LSV
#594768 05/31/10 05:33 PM
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Levitz should have brought back the Fatal Five (with Mano stepping in for the catatonic Persuader) for at least one more go-round instead of doing that awful Death of Emerald Empress story.

Thank God we've got Dev's 10YL fanfic.


Read LEGIONS OF 7 WORLDS in the Bits forum:

Retroboot (Earth-7.5) Arc 1 (COMPLETED)

Retroboot (Earth-7.5) Arc 2 (WORK IN PROGRESS)

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Re: LSH vs. LSV
#594769 05/31/10 06:23 PM
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I brought LSV part two to show and tell, and the who's who letter L edition. I think i bored my classmates for an hour.

Re: LSH vs. LSV
#594770 05/31/10 06:40 PM
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Read LEGIONS OF 7 WORLDS in the Bits forum:

Retroboot (Earth-7.5) Arc 1 (COMPLETED)

Retroboot (Earth-7.5) Arc 2 (WORK IN PROGRESS)

"Don't look for role models, girls, BE the role model."

- Legion World member HARBINGER
Re: LSH vs. LSV
#594771 05/31/10 06:51 PM
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Quote
Originally posted by Mattropolis:
While the Titans creators chose to tell their stories in a linear manner, the Legion books were happening concurrently. And while this made the Legion stories feel "bigger" and part of a much larger tapestry, if you were only able to get the newsstand edition, you were only getting half the story, although the creators were very careful not to give too much away.
Really? The stories in Tales were happening simultaneously? I hadn't realized that. Of course, I experienced both as back issues, so it may not have been immediately apparent.

All I remember is the last original Tales having a segment with Garth and Imra alluding to the LSV War that was about to be reprinted and them being careful not to reveal who died. In retrospect that does imply that had already happened, though I took it as more of a fourth wall-breaker to promote the reprints.

Y'know, though I've reread Levitz's stuff a lot, I may have only reread the Tales stuff once, or maybe not at all. Can y'all explain how Tales tied in with Baxter while they were running concurrently? All I recall was that the Tales stories were fairly self-contained and how disappointed I was by how the Lyle Norg subplot was resolved.


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Re: LSH vs. LSV
#594772 05/31/10 07:00 PM
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Tales starts off with the Legionnaires still on Earth at the time the LSV war begins. Small groups of Legionnaires not yet involved with the story were shown.

Also, as members travelled back and forth, sometimes they would dovetail back into the newstand story. Wildfire disaappeared from the LSV story in order to be a part of the resolution of the Lyle Norg story.

Later, while Brainy and Dawnstar were searching for the missing Legionnaires, they had a story of their own.


Touch the magic...
Re: LSH vs. LSV
#594773 05/31/10 07:03 PM
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Quote
Originally posted by Fanfic Lass:
Interesting discussion of this same story
Hmm... at least my opinion on the story seems consistent!

Re: LSH vs. LSV
#594774 05/31/10 07:26 PM
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Quote
Originally posted by Cobalt Kid:


Some of the most explosive multiple-Legionnaire fight sequences ever in the series history.
Levitz is a MASTER of fight scenes; nothing beats reading a Levitz-choreographed battle scene. Looking forward to a new one!


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Re: LSH vs. LSV
#594775 05/31/10 08:21 PM
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[Tangent] I honestly thought that the Baxter and 'shelf' issues were the same story, 12 issues apart, and that if you could read the Baxter stories, you were getting the story of what was going on a year after the others...

Which, in retrospect, doesn't make a freaking lick of sense, since anyone who bought the Baxter issues would have no reason to buy the newstand versions after 12 months, when the stories were all caught up, but, hey, that's just how my fool brain works! [/tangent]


Word to the fight scenes. Comics, IMO, are made or fail on three things;

Memorable villains
Compelling characters
Thrilling action

Too many comics miss one (or more) of these elements. Image was chock full of people posing, but rarely, if ever, was there a scene with multiple characters doing something other than charging at each other with glowing hands or blazing firearms.

Too many team books miss the point of it being a team book and show a team breaking up into a half-dozen solo fights, which, again, sucks. I don't want one panel of Rogue punching someone and another panel of Kitty phasing through someone, I want a panel in which there are things going on in the foreground *and* the background, and I particularly love panels in which two or more characters function as a team, either combining their powers (like the Lightning Lad / Cosmic Boy 'synch-up' in the Smallville episode) or using a combined tactic (fastball special!).

I'd love to see some funky Legion tactics, like Mon-El or Jo backhanding Chuck into an enemy, using their invulnerable bouncing teammate as a ranged weapon, or that scene in the cartoon where Ferro Lad is used as a conduit to channel Lightning Lad and Cosmic Boy's power.


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Re: LSH vs. LSV
Mattropolis #924363 03/27/17 06:24 PM
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It always struck me as odd that, facing a team of villains, Cham would happily drop off Val to face the villain who could beat any foe in single combat. It would have taken all of a few panels, for him to swoop down, and defeat Nemesis Kid as he fought Val. For that matter, there's no reason why Jeckie couldn't have fought Nemesis Kid alongside Val. They really pushed Val into getting killed.

While I'm typing, I always felt that the blood oath the villains took at the start, never played out in the slightest, when they had so many opportunities to kill off Legionnaires.


"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
Re: LSH vs. LSV
Mattropolis #924364 03/27/17 06:33 PM
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There is a small 'A' for Authority sticker on my copy of the "Eye for an Eye" issue. I wonder if someone at DC was still looking over the books to make sure there wasn't too much violence. But then again, I know by the late '80s the code had little power. If the book was written in the '90s or today there would have been a higher death-count.


Go with the good and you'll be like them; go with the evil and you'll be worse than them.- Portuguese Proverb
Re: LSH vs. LSV
Mattropolis #924366 03/27/17 06:51 PM
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It's one thing to have last second escapes, but that story had so many that they became meaningless. It only served to highlight Karate Kid's death which was avoidable.

Lightning Lass seems to be shown dead, with her eyes open after an earlier encounter with Mekt.
We hear Dream Girl's scream when she's caught by Silver Slasher, but not a hint of damage when we next see her.
All the times the villains have knocked out our heroes, only to never, ever bump them off.


Still a top story overall though.


"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
Re: LSH vs. LSV
Mattropolis #924379 03/28/17 12:01 AM
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A good point, thoth. especially as the villains' pact was to each kill a Legionnaire.

i was expecting Nura to at least be seriously wounded after Silver Slasher crept up on her. otherwise, what was with that big scream? or does Slasher need a sharpening?

Re: LSH vs. LSV
Mattropolis #924384 03/28/17 01:37 AM
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She always wanted to be known as the Silver Tickler smile


"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
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