Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes "PHANTOMS" New Episode - SPOILERS

Comics Continuum has posted pics from the new episode, 'Phantoms' along with hints of a second season and a possible appearance by Darksied

These are screen shots from the Promo for next week\'s episode .

This post contains SPOILERS.

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So it wasn't Mon-El, like several theorized it might be, before the preview images/commercial was released.

Or was it?

The inner voice that seemed to 'correct' him whenever it seemed like he might not be as evil as he thought suggests that there's a definitive outside influence manipulating him. We know about his parents, but we aren't being given the whole story, one way or another.

And I could have sworn I heard the word 'Valor' stuck into the diabolical rantings of the villainous voice. Convenient choice of words...it's not like it's a common word amongst kids nowadays.

He's not harmed by Kryptonite, suggesting that he may not be a Kryptonian--although he DID say that his parents made him invulnerable to it, but once again, we lack details of any sort, and since we've been shown this villain is conflicted, we can't guarantee his statements are accurate--he may BELIEVE them, but they aren't necessarily accurate.

In other news...

Brainiac 5 displayed his intelligent, calculating side a lot more in this episode. Between his role as the Legion's "science guy", the way he got the other members out of the Phantom Zone, and the fact that he kept Kryptonite around, it looks like we're starting to see aspects of Brainy pulled from all versions.

Phantom Girl's ability to phase not just herself, but objects she could touch, greatly increases her battle effectiveness. We seem to be seeing hints of chemistry between her and Timber Wolf...I'm a Tinya/Jo fan, but without an Ultra Boy, I suppose Timber Wolf's not bad.

I'm curious. Was Winema Wazzo President of the U.P. in more than just the postboot version, or did they pull that aspect directly from there?

A nice battle episode, in conclusion, but it doesn't put to rest my fears that this show's going to become "Superman in the future, guest starring the Legion". Aside from the Timber Wolf episode, everything's been highly Superman-centric. Yes, he's the most recognizable character, but at the same time...

Meh.

Eh...not as good as the previous two episodes--basically an episode-long fight scene.

Random thoughts:

Not-Lar intrigues me; has the idea of someone born in the Phantom Zone been done before?

Although it's been apparent in other episodes, this one really showed how fast and loose the writers are playing with concepts. A Phantom Zone where people can touch each other? Tinya becomes invisible as well as intangible? While I'm not against writers changing what they feel needs changing, I have to say their track record so far is spotty--call me a traditionalist, but Brainy shouldn't be a Transformer toy (even if his moppy-do and crush on Superman are adorable).

I noticed for the first time today that Tinya's pants aren't skintight--more like a toned down bell-bottoms. Groovy.

One thing I'm missing from the series so far is the world-building; so far, the main difference between 30th century Earth and 20th century Earth is the aliens. One of the things I really like about TMNT: Fast Forward (the new Ninja Turtles show, where the turtles are taken to the year 2105--sound familiar? oh, and shameless plug quota: met) is how believable they've made their version of future New York, and I believe that that's something LSH should work on.
Yeah, I know that its far too soon to complain about this four episodes in, but so far, I've yet to see anything to show that the setting will become a focus, which is a damn shame.

Reposting it on the correct thread...

This was easily the best episode yet. Phantom Girl finally got some exposure and was very impressive. There seem to be some slight hints of a Tinya/Brin romance, which makes sense to me as it would essentially be the same dynamic as Tinya and Jo's romance-- Brin, like Jo, is a dangerous, wild guy who contrasts with Tinya as sheltered princess.

[spoil]The whole thing with the Kryptonite, and Brainy's guilt over having it around, was very nice. Of course I'm also curious as to who's been telling Drax that he's evil. The obvious answer is the Phantom Zone villains, but perhaps it's someone more interesting, like Mordru. Also, I wonder which Phantom Zoners are Drax's parents.[/spoil]

I think Drax is the son of Kryptonian criminals just as he claims. But, I also think that this was an obvious set up for Mon-El's eventual appearance.

Great observations, C&D! I was astonished by the idea that 1) conception, pregnancy, childbirth and growth could occur in the Phantom Zone and 2) that you could make a Kryptonian immune to Kryptonite. Drax being a brainwashed Lar would make more sense, by far.

Was it just Phantom Girl who could kick butt in the Zone, because of her powers?

I like the layers added here. Superman doesn't know anything about Krypton, and neither do the Legionnaires, thanks to the "Great Crisis." Brainy knows more, no doubt passed down from his forbears. Do any of the Legionnaires know about past Brainiacs?

Really good stuff.

Hmmm...and now that doublechinner puts it that way...now I'm convinced that C&D is right...

I'll get my big hate about the episode right out of the way: Stop with the Saturn Girl illusions. I know I know, it is the only way to make her power visual.

I definitely like the Brainiac 5 crush. Having the secret Kryptonite (and still not telling anyone after it was taken) was very much the calculating Brainiac. I did like how this time there was a more sinister aspect to his transforming. His head became that Brainiac dome thingy.

Phantom Girl really did shine in this episode. But D'uh Tinya, of course the Legion would be blamed for the damage. Superman did let Drax out of the phantom zone by tinkering with something he didn't know what it would do.

Drax: Couldn't they have called him "Dev-em"? It still could have been a brainwashed Mon-el. I assumed the voices Drax heard were from the Phantom Zone prisoners. They've had a thousand years to work on him and give him false memories of being "born" in the Phantom Zone, etc. I also like the use of the "doggies" whom we saw (albeit one) in the Superman animated series IIRC

I do like that there are other members who keep getting mentioned even if we don't end up seeing them. They could easily have just had these guys be the whole Legion.

Was that Doomsday I saw as one of the Phantom Zone baddies? Liked that Tinya got more to do and kick but. They're definitely empowering all the characters to have sufficient abilities and purposes which is nice. Does Drax get his haircut at the MTV teen punk/goth/emo salon?

Definitely a fight-scene episode, which was fine by me since we got to see each one of the present legionnaires in action. It got a bit tedious when it was just Superman & Drax (and destructive too), but at least it introduced the legion arsenal--that's cool to have.

Drax born in the phantom zone? Why? Why wouldn't the all the phantoms there just escape and go after superman together? Eh, no big deal though. I wouldn't doubt that we'll see more of Drax, & his motivations can be fleshed-out then.

Maybe Clark letting go of hanging around the museum will put to bed his being in the future just to learn about what he does when he's older. I felt that sort of motivation was kinda sketchy.

I can't believe there's only nine episodes left. Somebody green light a second season already!

I think this was the best episode so far. Am I the only one who thought it was badass when Superman got all those weapons? Anyway, we learn that the Science Police don't like the Legion at all, Brainiac5 had some kryptonite stashed away, and any history on Superman was lost during the Crisis. I liked Phantom girl in this episode and her interaction with Timberwolf. I think those two are going to be my favorites.
I don't know about you guys, but there's been some serious lack of Bouncing Boy. Seriously, we havent seen him in two episodes already:(

I noticed that, too: they resembled a creature on that uninhabited planet where Superman left Bizarro, that Bizarro adopted as a pet.
Loose-End Alert: IIRC, we didn't see Drax's pets get sent back to the Phantom Zone!

I saw three Zoners who looked like Doomsday, General Zod, and Faora. I assumed that the voices in Drax's head were telepathic messages, since he responded to them.

There are no more episodes in the list that refer to the Phantom Zone, so while that doesn't mean it won't appear, it suggests that Mon-el won't (at least this season).

I was watching with closed-captioning and did not see "valor" used in any of Drax's head-voices.

Incidentally, remember this picture from the forum back in March? We all thought it was a concept sketch for Brainiac 5 in his normal form, but darned if it's not a ringer for Brainy in his mecha form. Here\'s the forum discussion back in March reacting to the picture.

I'm not positive I heard it or not. I THOUGHT I heard it, but I could be wrong.

At the same time, too, closed captioning services aren't always perfect.

I'll torrent it through and check it out. It was during the first head-voices session that I thought I heard it.

I taped the episode and just watched it again (for the purposes of a review and you'd best believe I was listening for the word 'Valor'. Didn't hear it.

Looks like Brainiac 5 is going to learn a lesson before all this is over. B5's design is growing on me. He's always been kinda Deus Ex Machina, A guy that can think of anything by thinking of a plan. Now in this version has all the tools he'd ever need already integrated onto the motherboard.

Now onto the the subject of Tinya's pants which I imagine is one of the most important subjects in all of Legiondom. Except for the tryouts and cruel rejections of all those with useless powers. I think that the soles of her boots are actually attached to her pants.

This episode was once again greatly entertaining. Very fighting-heavy, yes, but nicely animated, and I think they did equally well on the characterisation front again.

As has been said before, very effective expansion of Phantom Girl's powers and what seems like the beginning of an interesting relationship between Brin and her (I still can't decide if I find Tinya's constant complaining and "a-duh" attitude grating or endearing, though).

Another fun relationship is the Saturn Girl and Lightning Lad one - love his constant prancing around in front of her and how her usually calm and mature behaviour derails when she's dealing with him.

Hm, Brainy's getting a bit sinister; his lack of reaction, that blank, intense stare he gives Saturn Girl after being scolded for snooping as well as at the end when he absolutely doesn't volunteer any information about Kryptonite, him having had Kryptonite or what Kryptonite generally does to the guy standing right in front of him... Sporting an ebil Brainiac brain dome never makes anyone look approachable, either. Let's see how all that turns out in terms of the Superman - Brainiac family line relationship.

I found the verbal confrontation between Drax and Supes well-written. Drax' re-disappearance into the Phantom Zone, complete with Kryptonite and evolving moral dilemma offers potential for a lot of further story lines. If he still turns out to be Mon-El, then he's saddled with a rather villainous character design, though, the poor guy. Maybe his pupils will de-redify and get bigger when he's not being "mind-controlled" any more, but what are you gonna do about that nose?

I'm repeating myself, but what really impresses me about the series is how well, how mature they do the characterisation thing. The story lines might not be overly complex, there might be plot holes sometimes and so on, but I'd say the way the characters are portrayed is subtle enough that it's never an insult anyone's intelligence.

To give just one example, if you take other cartoons probably intended for a much older target audience, like the new Hellboy cartoon (I know, that's comparing apples to oranges), and contrast them with the "toddler-compatible" SLSH in terms of characterisation...

With the spazzy psychic "Hellboy - Sword of Storms" had a comic relief character so absolutely juvenile and irritating I can't imagine anyone over the age of six not wanting to gleefully strangle him. Yeah, and that's what you get when you're looking for something a bit more sophisticated than the typical saturday morning cartoons. SLSH on the other hand manages to portray Bouncing Boy (if we can shoehorn him into the comic relief role) as someone to be laughed with, not at - so far he's never been portrayed as slow-witted, incompetent, a screw-up, or having to be constantly rescued.

Pretty damn good for a "kiddy show", I'd say.

Even better than a torrent, I still have it on my TiVo.

First time, fighting the Legion:
"Remember who you are, Drax!"
(Saturn Girl says he's hearing voices in his head)
"You're evil. You always have been, you always will be. Do not fail us!"

When he's overlooking the city at night:
"Are you forgetting what we trained you for? Why you exist?"
"No, I haven't forgotten."
"Then make us proud."
"I'll do even better. Superman is finished. Before this day is done, you'll also be free!"

I don't think there were any others.

someone mentioned that this is supposed to have been the sixth episode. if so, I hate when the network decides to play stuff out of order. for example, brin and Phatom girl's flirting/bickering seemed really out place. I bet when episodes 4 and 5 show up we will see a proper beginning to their interaction.

brainy is evil. well, maybe not evil, but he's far to sneaky and secretive for his own good. you don't suppose, there some evil ancestor subroutine that's active in there? that could explain some of his behaviour.

speaking of Brainy, when they finally make toys how many versions of morphing/transforming brainy do you think they will make?

Finally...some clips !

I enjoyed the episode a lot. I still totally geek out seeing the Legion in action, especially the fun fight scenes. I was worried the hq was going to be destroyed, which is very Legion history. I kinda wish we weren't meeting new characters all the time when there are so many from the books to utilize, but that's just me being fannish. Drax is a fine antagonist, as is. I *was* starting to get tired of the Supes vs. Drax battling when ...voila! the Legion got sent into the zone. Forgot that was going to happen. Perked me back up. Made the epsiode work for me.

I did take notice of the female SP officer with the red ponytail. Gotta be Shvaughn.

Naturally, I wish there were more Easter Eggs and Legionnaires shown.

I know this has nothing to do with this episode but was it just me or did I just see Phantom girls mom in the promo?

Alright, I suppose I was wrong about hearing 'Valor', then. Oh well -shrug-

Just watched it. Pretty good, though the portrayal of the Phantom Zone kind of annoyed me.

Isn't the whole point of the Phantom Zone supposed to be that it's an incorporeal existence? In other words, you can't touch others? Yet not only can these Phantom Zone villains touch others in the Zone, but they may be able to have children. What's up with that?

My other complaint is the lack of Bouncing Boy. It would have been great to see him in combat against the doggie thingies.

Other than that, I though the episode had some really good stuff in it. I especially like the central theme of Clark visiting the Superman musuem to try to figure out who he is. I almost would've like to have seen that played up more.

And the portrayal of Brainy was really great, as well. I was totally expecting him to tell Clark about the kryptonite at the end, but I'm glad he didn't.

I'm still up in the air about the portrayal of Tinya, and I can't stand the notion of her and Brin.

In an old issue of the Avengers, the Vision lowered his density, and appeared to disappear, although the Scarlet Witch commented that she could just barely see him. I wonder if the reasoning is that if you become intangible enough, you fade from sight? It sort of makes sense.

That did look like Winema. I also wonder if that\'s Ultra Boy and Matter-Eater Lad along with Lightning Lad in athletic gear .

If she phased all the way back to Bgtzl, someone on Earth wouldn't be able to see her. Then all she has to do is move ten feet and phase back to Earth. That's how I figure it, anyway.

I can definitely believe the green figure there is Tenzil. Ultra Boy...-maybe- that's him there, in the red/black, but I'm not sure.

Although it was a great episode, I was a bit disappointed that the writers missed a great opportunity to bring back Mon-El. I thought for sure that while the Legionnaires were battling the Phantom Zone villains and ended up trapped inside Brainy's shield, Mon would suddenly appear to buy them time for their escape. That would have been awesome, even if he was left behind guarding their backs. It would have been a perfect set up for a return to the Phantom Zone in the future.

You know what's stupid? It never even occurred to me that Mon-El could have potentially been in this episode. I knew it was the phantom zone and everything, but I never even thought on Mon.

I think as stated earlier by Cloak and Dagger & doublechinner, that Drax is in fact Mon-El, who after centuries trapped in the Zone has been convinced that he's the son of Zod and Faora ( or whoever ) and that he's as evil as they are. Thus, he is immune to Kryptonite and based on this version of the Zone I could see that happening.

Plus, according to Scott's press kit <span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">There are also a number of potential future Legionnaires who first appear as adversaries, among them MON-EL, CHAMELEON BOY and THE WHITE WITCH.</span></span>

My only question is what happened to his lead poisoning, if this is the case?

Is lead still used in the 30th century? We know of its harmful side effects to humans and magnetic and energy fields could replace its shielding effects. Maybe no lead was present while he was out.

In the original "big brother" story, Lar was on Earth for a few days before his near-fatal exposure to lead, so I don't think Drax being unaffected after only one day is conclusive evidence he is or isn't Mon-El. I guess what we're left with is the cartoon series' first, big dangling plotline.

While the story itself didn't really thrill me (nor did it make a whole lot of sense), it was great to see Phantom Girl pull out all the stops. It would have completely rocked if Timber Wolf had said to Tinya "This mission is much too dangerous for a girl!"

Characterwise and in general, the one thing I'm not crazy about is the Saturn Girl & Lighting Lad love/hate thing, but maybe that's because we've been around that block before and, given enough episodes, I can guess what dark places it might eventually lead. Plus, I'm missing Bouncing Boy, who would have been utterly useless against Drax but it might have been fun to see the hell hounds chasing a giant ball through New Metropolis.

Grade: B, but looking forward to the next episode.

Sooooo, you want Timberwolf to be sexist?

The being born in the Zone was pretty cool. Son of Zod and Faora(Ursa?)???

Also I would think he wouldn't be as powerful as Superman cause he hasn't been under a yellow sun long.

I was also hoping for a Mon-El mention but ohwell. Enjoyed the show!

In the comics, Mon-El's anti-lead serum used Kryptonite as an ingredient. If he was exposed to lead and Green K at the same time he wasn't affected.

Possibly, but what about Brainy's statement, "...not only does he share your powers, Superman, he's almost your genetic equal."?

I would assume a 12th-level intelligence would be precise enough to say, "physical equal" to compare Daxamites to Kryptonians and, "genetic equal" to compare an original to a clone, or to compare twins.

My only problem with someone being born in the Zone is that none of the prisoners seem to have aged, which would suggest that time has no passage there. While an occupant born there might be able to age, since the zone would be its home environment, the parent carrying the child wouldn't, meaning she most likely wouldn't change physically (eg. no development, pregnancy-wise).

My thoughts are that if Drax is Mon-El-to-be, it's possibly a Mon-El who's not a Daxamite, but possibly a Superman clone of some sort.

That said, I'm probably relying too much on Brainy's phrasing, and I'm willing to go along with a brainswashed Mon-El over a born-in-the-Zone Drax.

-- Walt Sterdan, Space Cadet

I definitely dug this episode the most of what we've seen so far. To me there was more story here, while the others were most interesting for their easter eggs. Yeah, lots of unanswered questions, but I get that the series will answer them eventually if given the renewal go-ahead.

Don't I remember a Drax from the "Lois and Clark" series? Can't recall anything specific, but he may have appeared as a Kryptonian near the end of tht show.

Loved the shading to Anibrainiac in this ep! See my "Anibrainiac" thread for more of my thoughts about him.

I'm also digging Phantom Girl a lot the last two eps! She's got a nice, wisecracking personality to her, and her fighting style kicks ASS! She and SG are pretty impressive fighters here!

I thought Brin liked SG in his debut? Maybe it was just gratitude!

I could swear that some of the phantoms were New Gods characters, like Granny Goodness perhaps. But they flew by so quickly that I'm only sure of Doomsday and Zod, really. Any stills of those phantoms available?

Nah, it's really Brainy's line from waaay back but dagnabit, *somebody* shoulda said it, and it just seemed better coming from a werewolf boy than a prepubescent android boy.

(Does AniBrainiac even have a gender? What parts of him are real people parts?)

"Drax" was apparently the name of Darkseid's brother. Doubt that means anything, but I thought I'd throw it out.

My overall evaluation: Outstanding episode that hit all the right buttons. It was full of action, but nevertheless contained some surprises. An episode that should cater both to new fans and oldsters, leaving the latter (me included) wondering if Drax is Mon-El or not.

Character Development: When we learned that Brainy was concealing kryptonite, I thought of Batman in INFINITE CRISIS: Have to have that insurance policy to make sure a super-powerful ally stays an ally. But I liked Brainy's reaction at the end: "I'm glad to be rid of it." Can't imagine Bruce saying that.

Drax as potential Mon-El: I was going to say I hated this idea, but, after two viewings, I'm starting to warm up to it. Drax isn't really evil, apparently; he's just been led to believe he is. The writer did a good job of making me sympathize with Drax, who could have easily been a one-dimensional villain. There was enough subtlety in his portrayal that I felt sorry for him when he was yanked back into the Phantom Zone.

Timber Wolf and Phantom Girl (or is it Saturn Girl this week?): Maybe Brin just falls in love very easily. Seriously, I don't know that we've seen enough of either interaction to assume romantic intentions. It could be that Brin, being literally the down-to-earth sort, really is annoyed with Tinya's princess attitude. (Garth also seemed to be feeling that way.)

For her part, Tinya really doesn't seem to act superior, just Valley Girlish. Perhaps she is misunderstood by the others.

The Legion being unpopular with the Science Police: This plotline seems to have been borrowed from the current verion of the comic (or what little I've read of it). I'm not fond of this idea, as it's too "kids versus adults"-ish. It did add some extra tension to the episode, though. However, I can't buy the SP firing on the Legionnaires who were clearly trying to subdue Drax's "pets." We'll see how this plays out.

My grade: A minus.

The post-Zero Hour Science Police weren't thrilled with the Legion, either. They saw them as kids who had no business trying to be heroes--the police had gotten all of this training, and the Legion comes out of nowhere, becomes famous, and is suddenly doing their job--all because they have powers.

I saw the show's Science Police vs. Legion thing to be more associated with that then the Threeboot one.

It does fit if Drax is an updated, servant-of-darkness-styled clone made from Superman's DNA.

'Drax' has a long and honourable history as a villain's name. (I think it means 'dragon'.) The one I keep thinking of is Sir Hugo Drax, the villain in the James Bond novel Moonraker.

Re: relationships I think it was at Comic-Con that Andy Milder (Lightning Lad) said there'd be hints/suggestions of them but nothing too overt.

One thing I wondering was if this technically could still constitute the same universe as JLU/Batman Beyond/Teen Titans. If y'all remember, the same design of Speedy from Teen Titans later appeared in a JLU episode. Although the designs are radically different, Brainy's man-crush on Super-boy-man kinda make sense in relation to older looking Brainy's crush on Supergirl in the JLU episode. As does Bouncing Boy's overall empowered characterization.

JLU/Batman Beyond/etc. is not the same universe as TT animated. Trust me on this. I've gone through every angle. You have to do wayyyy too much stretching to make them fit.

Just because the Speedy design was the same means nothing.

I'm engaged in a debate on the DC messageboards as to if LoSH fits in with the JLU 'verse. My position is that it's not, because again, you have to do unpleasant stretching to make it fit.

Drax (the Destroyer) was also the name of a Marvel hero, the father of Moondragon.

I don't know if we've already discussed this (I think Michael mentioned him), but upon rewatching the episode this evening (I've been making room on my DVR) I noticed that Drax's chest insignia was a "Z". Could this be Z for General Zod? Could Drax be Zod's Superman clone/son?

Oh and I also noticed that Drax has evil ruby red highheel-like shoes ala the Wicked Witch of the East.

He's a manly man, that Drax.

I think Drax could possibly become a good guy if he gets some major therapy for those voices. (lol) but seriously, if they could figure out who's telling him to be evil, and get rid of them, he could be a major ally.

You have to have a LOT of dignity to fight your enemies wearing heels. And a lot of pain resistance. I can barely WALK in heels for too long without my feet hurting.

It seemed to me that Drax based on a butch Carson Kressly.

In this ep did Supes go into Legion HQ and tell "Computo" to turn on the lights, or did I hear that wrong?

you heard right. I was in shock at that since I have been studying the Legion comics but my brother didn't know why I was gauking at the tv and I didn't want to spoil it for him.

You don't spoil the references? I just blurt it out...

I also got a kick outta the (possible) reference to Infinite Crisis with the quote: "-the great crisis", that my brother got.

I think Brainy knows way more about Superman than he lets on. "All factual information was lost during the great crisis." wouldn't the crisis count as "factual information"? never thought I'd see Brainy exagerate. I mean all of it? that's got to be exagerated.

*shrug* I don't memorize all the Brainy moments, just the cute ones. ^_^ Like the whole bit about improvisation with Bouncing Boy. ^_^