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#831355 - 12/11/14 04:43 AM Re: Re-Reading the Postboot Legion! [Re: Invisible Brainiac]  
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Interesting. I wonder what their plans were? Like many other things they had planned, it took a while to come into fruition - a blob of energy was present on the pullout poster in Legionnaires 50, but Wildfire would only be created in Legionnaires 76!

#831739 - 12/14/14 09:04 AM Re: Re-Reading the Postboot Legion! [Re: Invisible Brainiac]  
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Tom Peyer or McCraw, can't remember which, was on record as wanting to kill Atom'X as soon as possible. Apparently "atomx" was one of their IM screennames that the other used without permission and that Tom was embarrassed made it to print.

Blast-Off didn't really seem to have much of a point, introduced shortly thereafter and then killed. Perhaps they were trying to create some "fodder" for the upcoming Mordru battle to give it weight without endangering the Legionnaires? Blast-Off, Dragonmage, Magno, and Radion all debuted in the same issue and were dealt fates in the Mordru battle. That's some type of plan more than coincidence.

Blast-Off's original given name, Jahr Ningle, had no Wildfire references tied to it when it was revealed in Legionnaires #51. That leads me to believe he wasn't meant to be involved with the reboot Wildfire initially. I always felt one was in the works at that point though, due to the aforementioned "printing error" of a green energy mass in a corner from the previous issue's poster. I've never bought that was an error like the creators later tried to state, choosing to believe they were testing the waters and teasing the future. After all, one of Lori's Dial H personnas, Slipstream, was on the poster as well months before it debuted.

Unlike Slipstream, who brought out intrigue, I recall the chats and message boards at the time being a little passive-aggressive about a reboot Wildfire. Especially because many people had a hunch it was Atom'X and didn't find him appealing or a worthy update. Perhaps like Kinetix as the Emerald Empress, the writers decided to surprise their readers and held back the Wildfire plot as they reworked it. Elements of Disaster definitely gave a lot of plot convenience to force the Legion back to the Mordru battleground to find Drake, including giving Dirk Morgna random "heat vision" to locate the energy mass. I dare-say the only real fall-out from that arc was bringing in Drake and destroying Dryad.

It's possible we only got the origin we did for him due to the creative teams shortly thereafter getting removed from the book. The issue after Drake Burrough's debut was their farewell story to the readers, so perhaps they decided to just wrap that plot thread and see if the next team could do something with it. I also like to think that adding a character like Wildfire, who sort of heralded in the 70s and a new age for the Legion back in the day, was meant to symbolically do the same. As if the Archie Legion was the "Adventure days" for this reboot team and the upcoming DnA stories would hopefully be the renaissance DC wanted.

That's my take on the evolution of postboot Wildfire's origin. I don't think the revisioning was a better solution. I would have preferred Atom'X just be Drake Burroughs straight-forward, predictable or eye-rolling as that may have been.

#831743 - 12/14/14 09:28 AM Re: Re-Reading the Postboot Legion! [Re: Future]  
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I read a theory (can't find it anymore) that Atom'x was actually a misdrawn or miscolored Atmos.

Originally Posted by Future
I always felt one was in the works at that point though, due to the aforementioned "printing error" of a green energy mass in a corner from the previous issue's poster. I've never bought that was an error like the creators later tried to state, choosing to believe they were testing the waters and teasing the future. After all, one of Lori's Dial H personnas, Slipstream, was on the poster as well months before it debuted.


Thunder appeared in the same poster, which came out more than a year (real time) before she actually joined. Kid Quantum II and Karate Kid, who joined the Legion before she did, failed to appear on the poster.

Nice analysis on Wildfire's revised origin. Having him be a reconstituted Atom'x would have been fine. Maybe merging Atom'x with Blast-Off was the writers' way of altering Atom'x's personality and making him more likable to the readers? I know I certainly don't think of Wildfire as either Atom'x, Blast-Off, or a mix of both. I just ignore his two components and focus on him being Drake.

#831747 - 12/14/14 09:54 AM Re: Re-Reading the Postboot Legion! [Re: Invisible Brainiac]  
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Originally Posted by Invisible Brainiac
I read a theory (can't find it anymore) that Atom'x was actually a misdrawn or miscolored Atmos.


Yeah, he was supposed to be Atmos, but because of some sort of artistic miscommunication, he ended up being drawn as looking nothing like Atmos. So, he became a separate character, who was named after Tom McCraw's screenname, a fact that Tom was completely unaware of when choosing the character's color scheme.

#831748 - 12/14/14 10:16 AM Re: Re-Reading the Postboot Legion! [Re: Invisible Brainiac]  
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That explains why he went through with a pink-and-orange scheme, though doesn't really explain why he chose pink and orange in the first place!

#831753 - 12/14/14 12:34 PM Re: Re-Reading the Postboot Legion! [Re: Invisible Brainiac]  
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Interesting explanation, Future! I never knew that!. laugh


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#859165 - 07/11/15 09:47 AM Re: Re-Reading the Postboot Legion! [Re: Invisible Brainiac]  
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Legionnaires 33
The Inhuman Touch


Issue Information

Summary:

We continue from LSH 76, with the mysterious masked man who looks like Preboot Starfinger attacking the Time Institute. Despite antagonism from some Science Police officers, Saturn Girl and Rond Vidar manage to stop him, though he escapes.

The masked man later appears on Guron, a technologically backward world that is negotiating to join the UP. Chu sends the Legionnaires to stop him, but he takes most of them out - disintegrating the Legion cruiser AND Invisible Kid's flight ring, sending a tower crashing onto Leviathan's head, and "disintegrating" the oxygen around the others. Only Shrinking Violet remains, and she charges him as the issue ends.

Subplots:

1) We see a gift flying invisibly towards Spark while she's on Monitor Duty. Spark immediately figures out that it must be Lyle's doing, as he's the only male on the team who could have left it without her noticing.

2) A call from their mom shows that Live Wire left Winath almost immediately after Spark did.

3) Leviathan puts Star Boy and Gates through training. An injured Star Boy suddenly manifests electrical vision powers which he can't control. Gates continues to show contempt for the Legion, while Leviathan is still angry at Cosmic Boy for admitting Star Boy and Gates, but not Ultra Boy or Jan Arrah.

4) Lori Morning explores Metropolis on her own. She mistakes an alien shop owner for a pet. The Science Police are called in after the alien accuses her of harassment.

5) Violet's bravery at the end of the issue is also highlighted in more quiet scenes. She steps in to stop Cos and Imra from arguing heatedly about Lori by reminding them they are supposed to be friends. And when Spark gloats about Lyle being her secret admirer, Violet simply says she used to be jealous, but thought about it and would rather be happy for her. (A sharp contrast to LSH 76, where she was crying in bed about being ignored!)

6) On Takron-Galtos, the warden tries interrogating Brainiac 5 to figure out what he knows about time travel. He promises to try worse.

7) Kinetix recovers on the Sorceror's World. Mysa shows her an image of the Emerald Eye and says they need to find and destroy it before it possesses anyone else. Enthralled, Kinetix thinks the Eye is beautiful.

Thoughts

A lot happens this issue, with all the subplots being developed. And most of those don't seem related to the main plot. Instead, the Legion's diverse cast continues to get developed.

Right now it still feels a bit like the Legion is caught up in events, rather than shaping them. Mysterious masked man out to destroy them (we know his "master" wants him to destroy the Legion, but is the Time Institute also a target?). Using him to lure the Legion to Guron was clever, it's not a UP world so there would be less of a chance of someone assisting the Legionnaires.

Star Boy's electrical vision powers are a throwback to the Adventure Era, where he temporarily had Superboy-like powers. Poor Star Boy is a bit of a clumsy knucklehead here. In training, Leviathan tells him to stop Chameleon - Thom does so by sinking him into the ground with his gravity powers, damaging the gym. Gim predictably gets mad, and I agree with Gim here. Powers should be used responsibly, people.

Gates, on the other hand, shows much better power control. And nearly every line is a gem. "Training for what? Assassination? Torture? No thanks!" Later on when Cos tells the Legion to "watch him for cues", Gates goes, "have no fear master, we wouldn't DREAM of thinking for ourselves!" (to which Cos retorts, "Gates...SHUT UP!" That made me laugh out loud. Two issues in and I already love Gates.

Lyle's fear of heights is mentioned again, in battle - did the Masked Man know that, and is that why it was Lyle's flight ring he destroyed? Lyle does sneak in a fun snarky line. Leviathan tells him to hold on, to which Lyle responds, "If there was anything to hang on to, there wouldn't be a problem, would there?"

Imra's hand-to-hand continues to shine, by the way. She beats the masked man at the Time Institute with her fists and flight ring as she can't hit him telepathically.

All in all, a nice issue. Lots of character moments, some good action. The main drawback is that the overall plot does not seem to move forward so much, and the Legion is still stuck in a rather unpleasant relationship with the UP and the Science Police. On the plus side, while that atmosphere is felt this issue, it's quite a bit more upbeat than the last one was and the Legionnaires act like a much better unit in battle.

Lastly, as a Kinetix fan, I have to comment - the cover features her finding the Emerald Eye, but she only gets two pages in the issue! Whaaaat! tongue

Last edited by Invisible Brainiac; 07/11/15 09:48 AM.
#859287 - 07/11/15 03:10 PM Re: Re-Reading the Postboot Legion! [Re: Invisible Brainiac]  
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Yay! The reviews are back!

In the interim since this thread was last active, I've acquired a bunch of Postboot Legion & Legionnaires issues, so I'll chime in wherever I have a copy of the issue being discussed.


Read LEGIONS OF 7 WORLDS in the Bits forum:

Retroboot (Earth-7.5) Arc 1 (COMPLETED)

Retroboot (Earth-7.5) Arc 2 (WORK IN PROGRESS)

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#859330 - 07/11/15 08:59 PM Re: Re-Reading the Postboot Legion! [Re: Invisible Brainiac]  
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Normally I like how sweeping the Legion's narrative is across issues, but here it was a miss for me. The subplots draw a simple Starfinger story out over three issues. The four panels of the warden threatening Brainiac 5 sets up LSH #77 nicely. Pay-off two weeks later! Many in this issue though don't work as effectively and I'd rather the Starfinger story had trumped them.

Kinetix's subplot loses a lot of impact if you weren't a previous reader and understood what the Emerald Eye's presence hints at. I think the biggest disservice to the Kinetix subplot though is that it STAYS a subplot, and one "going through the steps" at that. Zoe makes no discoveries or advancements for herself. Things are either handed to her or taken away as Mysa's whim dictates. Her quest has been and will continue to be tertiary in the books. I've always wondered at what point the writers decided to move away from making Kinetix the next Emerald Empress. The timeline here still gives room that she could have found the Eye and become the Empress in time for the Fatal Five union.

The sub-plot of Garth missing has two facets. I imagine this was a red herring for old fans, so they could assume Garth would be behind the Starfinger mask like in the Preboot. New and even some existing readers can't discern that, so instead it sets up intrigue for his return with new teammates to save the day in a few issues.

Star Boy's power sub-plot is frustrating. Obviously, hindsight that this leads nowhere is my biggest rationale. It is pretty silly though for him to have a power malfunction which injures a teammate and then continue to be on active duty without worry from even himself.

Gates, Triad, and Violet get the best portrayals in this issue for me and it's largely from being the voices in the background. Showing Saturn Girl's effectiveness in combat is appreciated, though it's undermined mere panels later when Starfinger has her dead to rights and then flees due to plot convenience. Still, nothing is more badass than Imra staring down the barrel of a loaded gun (or Starfinger's finger) moments before it could go off and not flinch.

#859341 - 07/11/15 09:17 PM Re: Re-Reading the Postboot Legion! [Re: Fanfic Lady]  
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I agree that the subplots did drown everything out.

And Zoe - her growth wouldn't happen until after the Emerald Eye showed up. Maybe the writers couldn't think of a way for her to learn lessons until after she had a brush with that sort of power.

Originally Posted by Fanfic Lady
Yay! The reviews are back!

In the interim since this thread was last active, I've acquired a bunch of Postboot Legion & Legionnaires issues, so I'll chime in wherever I have a copy of the issue being discussed.


Looking forward to having you, Fanfie!

#860426 - 07/18/15 09:24 AM Re: Re-Reading the Postboot Legion! [Re: Invisible Brainiac]  
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Ibby, I enjoy looking back on these issues years later with a different perspective both as a Legion fan and as an adult rather than teenager.

In other words, I hope you'll continue the reviews!

#860535 - 07/18/15 07:51 PM Re: Re-Reading the Postboot Legion! [Re: Invisible Brainiac]  
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Thanks, Future! Your support is very much appreciated. I love reading your posts because of the perspective that you bring. I try to do the reviews based on how I was reading the comic for the first time, with no knowledge of future issues. But I love discussing how the issues fit into the overall continuity, and your contributions and others are what allow me to do that.

Last edited by Invisible Brainiac; 07/18/15 07:51 PM.
#860688 - 07/19/15 08:41 AM Re: Re-Reading the Postboot Legion! [Re: Invisible Brainiac]  
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Oddly enough, the stories so far I only have a "hindsight" lens for. My first Postboot Legion issue was Legionnaires #41. After that, I began back issue hunting mostly going by what was affordable or had a neat cover. One of my first purchases due to the cover was LSH #80, so needless to say a lot of the "Year Two" subplots were spoiled before I read another issue.

On the one hand, I still appreciate how thought out and nuanced a lot of these subplots are stretching back to the White Triangle storyline. When I was reading these stories for the first time, I had many "Aha!" moments rather than confused ones. On the other, I viewed a lot of these back issues as puzzle pieces rather than new adventures where I fantasized about what could be next. I don't resent how I discovered these issues at all, though I know it slants my approach to reviewing them.

#860689 - 07/19/15 08:43 AM Re: Re-Reading the Postboot Legion! [Re: Invisible Brainiac]  
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LSH 80 had a great cover indeed. Sadly, I got it before LSH 78 and Legionnaires 36, but it didn't spoil the "big reveal" of that issue.

I also got my collection out of publishing order, so a lot of my reviews involve me trying to see what they might have been like from the point of view of someone reading the issues in turn. It's an interesting exercise.

#861253 - 07/22/15 08:32 AM Re: Re-Reading the Postboot Legion! [Re: Invisible Brainiac]  
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Around this time were also XS's adventures in Flash and Impulse. Those were my first introduction to XS. She was an intriguing mix having not followed the Legion beforehand and her relationship with Bart was well done.

#861257 - 07/22/15 08:41 AM Re: Re-Reading the Postboot Legion! [Re: Invisible Brainiac]  
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Sadly, I don't have those issues. The only one I have is Legionnaires Annual 3 - XS' return to the future.

#861262 - 07/22/15 08:46 AM Re: Re-Reading the Postboot Legion! [Re: Invisible Brainiac]  
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I own them if you want me to do some mini reviews, a la the Superboy issues. Likewise with any other guest spots...I was pretty anal retentive in my youth.

#861266 - 07/22/15 09:30 AM Re: Re-Reading the Postboot Legion! [Re: Invisible Brainiac]  
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I would love that, Future! I loved your Superboy reviews.

#861326 - 07/22/15 03:13 PM Re: Re-Reading the Postboot Legion! [Re: Invisible Brainiac]  
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These two books were the only comics I ever subscribed to in my life. At the time I was living about 60 miles from the nearest comic shop and these were the only comics I bought during those years. My subscription started with the zero issues and ran until DC no longer offered subscriptions to the books (just a few months before both titles were cancelled).

As a result I got to read the books in their proper order, and still think the first two years of the reboot (postboot, whatever) are among the best Legion books ever published. Unfortunately, someone soon decided to strand half the team in the 20th century, which fatally damaged the series.

Last edited by the Hermit; 07/22/15 03:14 PM.

First comic books ever bought: A DC four-for-47-cents grab bag that included Adventure #331. The rest is history.
#861341 - 07/22/15 05:11 PM Re: Re-Reading the Postboot Legion! [Re: Invisible Brainiac]  
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Impulse #09
Running in the Family


Issue Information

Summary:
Bart Allen, alias Impulse, is B-O-R-E-D. He's been home alone all weekend and has run out of things to do. He goes on patrol and intercepts purse snatchers on motorcycles. Mid-pursuit, he collides face first with another speedster: XS. XS chastises Bart in Interlac, and he learns that she is his long-lost cousin, Jenni! Stranded in the 20th century, she went to the Flash Museum to look for family. She recognized Bart in the new (and notably small) Impulse wing and tracked him down via newspaper headlines to see if he could help her get home.

With Bart's guardian, Max Mercury, out of town it's up to Bart to look after Jenni. He lets her raid Max's closet and attempts to teach her English. Bart gets too frustrated teaching, so Jenni has Bart bring her to the library to speed read. Bart grows annoyed with Jenni's naivety. Her English of children's book quotes embarrasses him in front of his friends and Jenni's lack of discretion about being from the future jeopardizes Max and Bart's secret identity to the librarian, Helen. Bart drags Jenni outside and vents, to which Jenni apologizes. The motorcycle purse snatchers drive by again, and Bart runs after them as Impulse.

Impulse attacks the motorcycles recklessly, and is pushed off a cliff drop-off. XS arrives, saving the driver and then using her flight ring to save Impulse. Impulse is impressed XS can fly, and has already gotten over his frustration with her. He wants to know her flight secret, and she says she'll only tell if he's nice to her. Impulse challenges XS to a race home to prove it's not because she's faster. At the finish line, Impulse fails to vibrate through the house and smashes against the wall. XS runs to him and realizes their speed is gone. Suddenly, super-speed ninjas appear! Comics!

Thoughts:
I love this issue. It's simple, it's fun, and it's got some type of energy that really resonated with me.

See, back in the mid-90s I was only an X-book collector, and after the Age of Apocalypse I found my pull list was shrinking. I didn't read any DC titles on the regular. On a lark, I found and read a done-in-one early Impulse issue of him adjusting to school at a book store. I thought the book was fun, and so picked Impulse up monthly as a side-read. Shortly thereafter, XS came onto the scene and I was intrigued. I loved her aesthetic, her personality, and when I learned she had ties to those colorful teen Legionnaires I had seen in ads over the years but never pulled the plug on? Done. I was mesmerized.

So the only reason you have a Future to talk to sporadically the past twelve years on the Legion boards is because of this single issue.

The scenes of Bart looking after Jenni are charming. This is elevated by the irony that Bart is an A.D.D. super-speedster who isn't all that familiar still with the era himself. Upon a re-read, Bart is more child-like than I remember, which helps showcase Jenni's maturity both in battle and when talking one on one with Bart. She's also very quotable as she tries to pick up English. "Sooo...have you seen Spot run?"

#861374 - 07/22/15 08:13 PM Re: Re-Reading the Postboot Legion! [Re: the Hermit]  
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Originally Posted by the Hermit
These two books were the only comics I ever subscribed to in my life. At the time I was living about 60 miles from the nearest comic shop and these were the only comics I bought during those years. My subscription started with the zero issues and ran until DC no longer offered subscriptions to the books (just a few months before both titles were cancelled).

As a result I got to read the books in their proper order, and still think the first two years of the reboot (postboot, whatever) are among the best Legion books ever published. Unfortunately, someone soon decided to strand half the team in the 20th century, which fatally damaged the series.


Always happy to meet someone else who grew up with this version of the Legion! I agree that the Team 20/30 split also saw a decline in quality, although Legionnaires (the team left in the 30th) IMO continued to be just as good.

#861375 - 07/22/15 08:14 PM Re: Re-Reading the Postboot Legion! [Re: Invisible Brainiac]  
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Re Impulse 9 review, wow. Your review makes me want to pick up the issue, Future. I'm glad to hear that XS' guest appearance got you hooked on Legion-y goodness.

#861377 - 07/22/15 08:22 PM Re: Re-Reading the Postboot Legion! [Re: Invisible Brainiac]  
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Ibby, if you can find it for a fair enough price I'd recommend it. It's charming and you don't really need the "Dead Heat" crossover to go with it, which I have partially reviewed in another window.

Hermit, that's pretty great about the subscription service timing well with the reboot run! I only subscribed once in my life to a book and am not sure why I never did to the Legion. I ate it up. The first two years are a very nice, cohesive story. I wouldn't say the Team 20/30 stories were bad, but they were definitely different and when the Legion finally reunited it did feel like the momentum was lost.

#861395 - 07/22/15 10:18 PM Re: Re-Reading the Postboot Legion! [Re: Invisible Brainiac]  
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Originally Posted by Invisible Brainiac

I agree that the Team 20/30 split also saw a decline in quality, although Legionnaires (the team left in the 30th) IMO continued to be just as good.


Agreed. Much of the credit for that goes to Jeffrey Moy, who stayed with Legionnaires far longer than Lee Moder stayed on the so-called parent book.

I have to say, though, that I actually grew up with the Adventure run, but had stopped buying comics altogether by the 1990s. It was seeing an early issue of Legionnaires (the SW6 version) in a supermarket, of all places, that got me interested in the Legion in particular (and comics in general) all over again.


First comic books ever bought: A DC four-for-47-cents grab bag that included Adventure #331. The rest is history.
#861410 - 07/23/15 02:30 AM Re: Re-Reading the Postboot Legion! [Re: Invisible Brainiac]  
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 56,694
Invisible Brainiac Offline
Unseen, not unheard
Invisible Brainiac  Offline
Unseen, not unheard

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 56,694
Wouldn't you like to know?
Cool, it's great to know that you appreciate all those eras of the Legion.

I preferred Moy's art to Moder's. I think the Legionnaires title also benefited from better stories during the split. The Mordru story for example.

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