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#786654 - 09/06/13 07:33 PM Re: Re-Reading the Postboot Legion! [Re: Invisible Brainiac]  
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Hear, hear!

Long live the Legion

#786753 - 09/07/13 08:41 AM Re: Re-Reading the Postboot Legion! [Re: Invisible Brainiac]  
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Mystery Lad! Great to see you back and I hope you'll keep posting more thoughts in this thread laugh

#790862 - 10/17/13 07:54 AM Re: Re-Reading the Postboot Legion! [Re: Invisible Brainiac]  
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It occurred to me that, if a poll were taken on this site for which incarnation of the Legion should be brought back for the next go-around (pending, of course, the inevitable failure of JL3K), the Reboot Legion would probably be the most feasible given the "new 52" reboot and them having cast the original/Levitz incarnation into Earth-2 limbo.

#790871 - 10/17/13 11:43 AM Re: Re-Reading the Postboot Legion! [Re: Invisible Brainiac]  
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While I'll concede that the 5YG Legion didn't have the youth, I'd argue that it was the inspiration of the Legion that brought them back together. Duty and loyalty for some, memories and hope for others.

Against the darker galaxy, the core Legion values shone through even more. The cast were mature and did show themselves as having got on well together in the past.

If I couldn't have that Legion back, then I'd happily take the one Levitz has just left us with.



"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
#790899 - 10/17/13 03:38 PM Re: Re-Reading the Postboot Legion! [Re: Georgehaze]  
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I'd certainly vote for the Reboot Legion. 5YG was wildly ambitious, but also wildly out of control (and I don't think the fault lies entirely with the editorial of the time.) There's bad things and good things about it, and I personally think the bad outweighs the good.

Last edited by Fanfic Lady; 10/17/13 03:46 PM.

Read LEGIONS OF 7 WORLDS in the Bits forum:

Retroboot (Earth-7.5) Arc 1 (COMPLETED)

Retroboot (Earth-7.5) Arc 2 (WORK IN PROGRESS)

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#790901 - 10/17/13 03:53 PM Re: Re-Reading the Postboot Legion! [Re: Georgehaze]  
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Originally Posted by Georgehaze
It occurred to me that, if a poll were taken on this site for which incarnation of the Legion should be brought back for the next go-around (pending, of course, the inevitable failure of JL3K), the Reboot Legion would probably be the most feasible given the "new 52" reboot and them having cast the original/Levitz incarnation into Earth-2 limbo.

As Cobalt recently put it, if the current DC brought back the postboot, they would just ruin it. I wouldn't trust them.


My views are my own and do not reflect those of everyone else... and I wouldn't have it any other way.

Cobalt, Reboot & iB present 21st Century Legion: Earth War .
#790950 - 10/18/13 02:28 AM Re: Re-Reading the Postboot Legion! [Re: thoth lad]  
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Originally Posted by thothkins
While I'll concede that the 5YG Legion didn't have the youth, I'd argue that it was the inspiration of the Legion that brought them back together. Duty and loyalty for some, memories and hope for others.

Against the darker galaxy, the core Legion values shone through even more. The cast were mature and did show themselves as having got on well together in the past.



It would be interesting to discuss and dissect how important the "youth" component is to the Legion. Do fans believe that, say, the Adventure Era was more lighthearted and the Legionnaires had more camaraderie because the Legionnaires were young, or because it was the Adventure Era? (hey, it was the Time Trapper himself who said the Legion's camaraderie was at its highest just before Ferro Lad's death!)

Agree with Reboot that I wouldn't trust current DC with the Postboot Legion. I'd much rather (for now) relive them through talented fan writers on this site or via back issues.

I would pick the Postboot Legion any day though, as I said above I like my Legionnaires happy and lighthearted smile

Last edited by Invisible Brainiac; 10/18/13 02:32 AM.
#791661 - 10/22/13 09:28 AM Re: Re-Reading the Postboot Legion! [Re: Reboot]  
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Originally Posted by Reboot

Originally Posted by He Who Wanders
Originally Posted by Invisible Brainiac
Having the Legion be inspired by multiple 20th century heroes (interesting that the Flash is the 4th hero, and not G.L. or J'Onn) is a good move, and touches on the rich legacy of all of them.
Notice Superman's mullet--ugh!

They missed a very obvious trick there - all four heroes are then-present (1994) versions. They should have mixed the costumes up a bit - Year One Batman, Byrne Superman, 1994 Wonder Woman, John Fox (future) Flash, perhaps?



COULD be explained by having those costumes simply be the most iconic ones associated with those heroes. After all, Superman, Wonder Woman and Flash have had the same costumes for the longest times and even Batman's costume variations have generally been minimal.

#791693 - 10/22/13 12:19 PM Re: Re-Reading the Postboot Legion! [Re: Invisible Brainiac]  
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When I read Adventure I'm not struck too much by it's light heartedness. The threats are certainly dire enough, and characterisation comes in angst sized chunks.

There's not a Tenzil Kem issue in the way the 5YG had him, for example. So there you have 5YG being the lighter book.

Youth is important as a lot of the angst is around being accepted, being able to connect with the girl/boy friend of your choice etc.

The camaraderie was higher back then, but that's because the characterisation was more limited. The characters were more generic then, so it was easier to pull them all in the same direction.

Better writing in that area resulted in the characters having their own ideas. That results in distances developing between characters.



"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
#791772 - 10/22/13 10:11 PM Re: Re-Reading the Postboot Legion! [Re: Invisible Brainiac]  
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I think with Adventure, there is angst but it seems more lighthearted because, in most cases, the angst is resolved by issue's/story's end. Unlike in more recent times when subplots could last years!

There were some seemingly permanent changes to the status quo (e.g. Bouncing Boy losing his powers, Star Boy being expelled) but the characters were still left in a fairly hopeful state. Compare to Arsenal losing a hand and becoming a drug addict!

There also was conflict between characters in the Adventure era, but I think because most subplots were contained in one issue, rifts between them were often resolved by the end of the issue too. We rarely had disagreements or animosity lasting multiple issues.


#791859 - 10/23/13 11:28 AM Re: Re-Reading the Postboot Legion! [Re: Invisible Brainiac]  
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I think that all of the Legion is pretty hopeful.

When Mon El is destroying the Time Trapper, there's his hope that somehow a Legion will rise in whatever comes next.

When things are at their darkest in the 5YG, it's the love, loyalty and hope of pulling the galaxy back together that reforms the team.

After Legion Lost, there's the joy of the returning Legion, and the hope that they can help a blighted UP.

The hopes of finding love within the team probably faded away with couples pairing up a bit. But everyone was so serious about the Legion and it's regulations back in Adventure. Step out of line of those regulations and you were out of there.


"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
#791958 - 10/23/13 08:33 PM Re: Re-Reading the Postboot Legion! [Re: Invisible Brainiac]  
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I'd say all the Legion is pretty hopeful, but sometimes it takes a while for that hope to really rear up tongue That was my main point regarding the length of story arcs or subplots.

I guess later eras had more shades of gray in them. Compare the trial of Star Boy for Kenz Nuhor's death and the later trial of Brainiac 5 for the Infinite Man's death. And then we have Projectra's execution of Nemesis Kid.

Boy, Star Boy sure must have felt bad about those.

#792001 - 10/24/13 11:07 AM Re: Re-Reading the Postboot Legion! [Re: Invisible Brainiac]  
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Yeah, back then if you broke a rule you were out of there.

Had he been Prince Thom Kallor or Kallor 7.0 from the Compu-Hive of Xanthu, he'd have been forgiven.

What's that Star Boy? Lost your powers too? Shame. All the best in the Subs. We're due to pop round and throw abuse at those rejects next week, so we'll see you there.


"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
#792061 - 10/24/13 02:00 PM Re: Re-Reading the Postboot Legion! [Re: Invisible Brainiac]  
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I'm reminded of the Dynamo Boy/LSV story (which was reviewed just a little while back). Colossal Boy gets booted out for seemingly lying about the location of some reward the Legion got, and Cosmic Boy is only too happy to toss him out.

Tying this all back to the Postboot Legion though tongue

One of the coolest moments is when Live Wire resigns just before tackling the Omniphagos, because he knows the only way to stop it is to give it a terminal stroke. Damn. I still tear up whenever I even THINK about that scene. He was so close to going home, and he and Imra were gonna get married...

Of course, he was well within the rules. I'd say that the self-defense clause would apply, and on top of that there's the "proven only alternative to the death of other sentient beings"!

#792081 - 10/24/13 02:31 PM Re: Re-Reading the Postboot Legion! [Re: Invisible Brainiac]  
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That was the one I was thinking of too smile

Didn't Mon El get kicked out for lying too? "But I didn't have the blaster" while it's in his belt all the time. The only time he ever had a blaster, and it gets him kicked out.

Yet when Star Boy resigns to rescue Dream Girl and Brainy? From a hover chair, no less. Does he get a mention (other than this one)? No, he does not. He gets squished by falling masonry for his troubles.


"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
#792517 - 10/26/13 08:07 PM Re: Re-Reading the Postboot Legion! [Re: Invisible Brainiac]  
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Legion of Super-Heroes 64
Sibling Rivalry

Issue information

Summary:

Cover doesn't lie - Ultra Boy shows up at Legion HQ to scope out the team. He has pretty bad timing though, as Garth's status on the team is still uncertain. What will Cos do?

Tensions between Garth and Ayla over their Legionnaire status and their powers, as well as Ultra Boy's spying, lead to a heated confrontation where Garth takes the decision away from Cos' hands and leaves the team.



Thoughts:

Enter the familiar face of Ultra Boy! His costume's pretty much unchanged from the Adventure Era too. In his intro scene he gets to show off his street smarts and his fighting skills - note, fighting skills. It's not clear if he used strength or speed, but somehow I think not. He certainly didn't need them to polish off two non-powered bullies who wanted to steal his jacket.

And we pick up where we left off, with Ayla Ranzz/Spark coming into the Legion and Live Wire's fate left unclear. The scene also highlights how new and loose the team is - Cosmic Boy is the only one who even talks to Garth in this scene, and Triad and XS are the only other ones who seem to notice he's not in good spirits. Gim, Tinya and Imra are even crowding around Ayla. On the one hand, it's good that they're welcoming. On the other, what about Garth? (Gim and Tinya haven't shown yet that they're particularly sensitive, while Lu's always been observant and Jenni's always been compassionate).

Or perhaps, nobody really realized how bad things were until RJ Brande came in and said he couldn't talk the UP out of bumping Garth off the team.

Imra rises to the challenge, and she even takes the lead when they confront Chu. Cos is more diplomatic, but his message is clear as well. (And of course, Garth is pretty happy that Imra's sticking up for him - but Imra quickly tells him it's not just him).

Chu's reaction is interesting. "Just a couple more draftees, and after which I promise you we'll listen to your concerns!" She already knows the Legionnaires have bones to pick, at least about their membership. Hmmmm. (At least she's giving them enough importance that they didn't have trouble seeing her without an appointment).

And the bombshell is dropped. Garth is a runaway on Winath because he's underage (UP worlds don't have a standard age of majority yet, a good mirror of Earth's present state). Mekt's villainy is an issue for Garth, but not for Ayla, because it is Garth who wants to find Mekt. Chu's not making Garth's search an issue though, as she expressly tells Cos he can make this call - then she follows it up with "Don't give me a reason to start doubting you too." Oy. Boy, is she a seasoned politician.

We get some insight into other Legionnaires - Brainy prefers pure theory (?) to Lyle's practicality of tactile engineering. So, to test a theory Lyle would actually build something while Brainy would...? Why does Lyle sneak around the lab invisibly, anyway? He's in Legion HQ. And he derides Brainy back by saying, "yes, you would ignore it."

Tinya gets into a fight with her overbearing mother. I'm all on Tinya's side here - hey, Winema gave her consent. They didn't destroy the moondome, Mano did. And they saved a lot of lives. Winema's approach doesn't help at all as she doesn't even acknowledge Tinya's good intentions. And I don't see Chu giving them flak over the destroyed moondome. At least Tinya gets some comfort from Jenni.

Gim's teaching Cham some Interlac, and Gim is showing patience for once. Good job!

Lu's very disciplined with her workouts, we can see. Wouldn't expect anything less. Jo mentally tells himself to skip it - I would linger too, Lu's looking good.

And Jo's attracted to Tinya, big surprise! But his reverie is interrupted by Imra. Good show, her telepathy's sharp as ever.

And enter Ayla! Uhoh, talk first, Spark. Imra had the right idea. When Imra tells Ayla she doesn't have to prove herself, is that insight gained from telepathy or is it just a guess?

Despite the sibling rivalry, Garth comes in and saves Ayla (though frankly, Jo was just restraining her. I don't think she was in that much danger).

Garth's statement is cryptic at best. "The Lightning? something he has to warn her about?" He could easily have told her earlier. And if there's something dangerous with the lightning, why join the Legion in a role where he'd have to use the lightning often?

Garth is pretty sharp with his guess that Jo can only use one power at a time. At the same time he's reckless - look at the destruction he caused. Garth realizes that, to his credit. He walks away from the team...

... into a new one with some familiar (to Preboot fans) faces. Is that Evolvo Lad? Spider-Girl? Karate Kid??? and McCauley, who claims to have met Mekt? Uhoh!

This is a good issue that serves to further cement the personalities of many characters. Ayla is more level-headed than Garth, but she also has an impetuous streak of her own. Garth can be reckless and emotional, but is mature enough to realize his mistakes and take responsibility. Imra has a very strong will and is pretty fearless. Rokk is ever the diplomat.

The Legion is such a young team, but look at all the upheaval they've been through. Kid Quantum dead, and Garth replaced with Ayla. Whew! Toss in all the other drama (Winema Wazzo) and you can see they've got their work cut out for them.

Last edited by Invisible Brainiac; 06/15/14 01:32 AM.
#797232 - 12/25/13 02:46 AM Re: Re-Reading the Postboot Legion! [Re: Invisible Brainiac]  
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Legionnaires 21
Enter the Workforce

Issue Information

Summary:

We meet the Workforce, and they're basically glorified corporate security due to McCauley's micromanagement. Poor Garth.

The Legion also gets possibly its most intriguing mission yet - to check on a prison cut off from the outside world because of the failure of the electromagnetic tunnel that allows exit from its location - inside a star.

Unfortunately, what seems to be a routine mission does not turn out well, as someone is willing to use force to stop the Legionnaires from repairing the tunnel.

Things are going to get pretty hot in here!

Thoughts:

First time we see the full Workforce in action, and when Live Wire calls them professionals, we know it means it's because they're paid tons of cash. Why else would they put up with a jerk like McCauley?

Who, by the way, is a total ass who makes questionable decisions. Besides his lack of concern over the guy Inferno killed (?!), his bloopers with Spider-Girl, Evolvo and Ultra Boy were really stupid. Ultra Boy or the telekinetic Evolvo could have taken the crate, Live Wire or a recovered Ultra Boy could have gone up against the thugs, and any of the long-ranged attackers should have covered Ultra Boy when he was chasing the crooks. Sheesh. Poor Garth didn't know what he was getting into.

Over to the Legion. After seeing how bad the Workforce members have it, it's doubly a pleasure seeing them!

Saturn Girl's sensitivity shines through when she asks Spark what's bothering her. I like to think that, though her telepathy makes her more sensitive to others, she's internalized it enough that she doesn't need to use her powers to do so.

Lyle and Triad show their naughty sides. Darkseid 2? Burn. I'm a bit surprised that Lyle didn't research about Brainy's lineage, but I'd guess he's not all that impressed with the Coluans - he knows they're intelligent, but he finds their preference of theory over practical applications to be a waste. Despite his cheekiness, Lyle does have the grace to apologize to an obviously angry Brainy.

The premise is very excitingly futuristic - a prison inside a star. Whoa! Nice characterization of the Wakeets too (education is distasteful? huh, but I can imagine some cultures WOULD find molding the youth to be tough).

Too bad we didn't actually see any Wakeets. Based on Brainy's description though it doesn't seem like any of them would actually dirty themselves operating the prison.

Imra's telepathy continues to be fraught with limitations - she has trouble reading mentally disturbed minds, and the physical conditions of her environment can hamper her. I guess it's not as easy as reading a book. Big surprise that the inmates are full of anger and hatred - I'd hate to be imprisoned inside a hot, sweaty star myself. I wonder though if they should have been sweaty at all, or at least to that extent. I would expect there to be little humidity inside a star.

Spark continues to show her thoughtful and intelligent nature - asking Brainy politely about his codename, and being sharp enough to understand why she should be careful with her lightning. She also showed a lot of concern for Cham, being the most distraught when she thought he'd died.

I wondered if it was wise to bring Cham along despite neither telepathic Imra or Durlan-speaking Lyle being there. If it hadn't been for his shapeshifting...!

Whoops! And what a cliffhanger the issue ends on - we're not sure if the half of the team who went to check out the generator is alive, and the rest of the team's about to get mowed down by hundreds of inmates. Wow, I bet the Legionnaires all thought this would be a routine mission!

Spark is probably my favorite Legionnaire this issue, as she was thoughtful, intelligent and compassionate and pulled her weight on the team.


Last edited by Invisible Brainiac; 06/15/14 01:33 AM.
#797525 - 12/28/13 07:27 PM Re: Re-Reading the Postboot Legion! [Re: Invisible Brainiac]  
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Legion of Super-Heroes 65
Breakout

Issue information

Summary:

Planet Hell part 2! Last issue's attack destroys the prison's power grid, freeing all the prisoners! The Legionnaires and the newly-arrived Workforce have to put down the riot while preventing any escapes. Drama and poor cooperation (at least on the Workforce side), as well as overwhelming numbers, make their job harder. It's a moot point though as the loss of power not only wipes out the prison shields but kills the magnetic tunnel that will allow exit from the prison. Oops!

Thoughts:

I echo Triad's words - take a look at what's coming. Yikes! Can't blame XS, Triad and Lyle for freezing for a moment. At least they recover quickly after Imra and Gim swoop down and grab them. Their jetpacks should have saved them though, right?

Good job, Cos, for calling Brainy out for dissing the others while also being fooled himself. Nice use of his powers too - shielding them from the blast AND "levitating" the others out of there.

Points to the other Legionnaires "on the ground" too -

Gim shows good thinking in crippling the ships; leaves the Legionnaires in a bad position but at least they're containing the prisoners.

Luornu, despite being overpowered, shows good tactical thinking - she knows the Legionnaires are outnumbered and she was the first one to react during the initial stampede.

Imra's ability to trigger sleep and stimulate pain in her enemies is nice and broadens her versatility.

Lyle really makes good use of his powers, being able to turn his jetpack invisible, taking out the guards, and blinding prisoners by removing their goggles.

Enter the Workforce. They make a sharp contrast to the Legionnaires - Inferno kills a prisoner and lets her guard down (necessitating a save from Triad); Spider-Girl gets subdued once and mind-controlled the next time; and Evolvo doesn't take down any prisoners that we see. Even Karate Kid gets mind-controlled; he does sarcastically call out Inferno for killing a guy though (I'm sure the writers kept his hands relatively clean to keep the door open for future Legion membership). The Workforce members don't demonstrate teamwork at all, unlike the Legionnaires who watch each others' (and the Workforces') backs. Even Garth seems a little off his game, possibly because of his resentment towards Ayla - not only doesn't he thank her but he chooses to argue with her in the midst of battle. Ayla doesn't bite, thankfully.

And Ultra Boy? He loses major points for making goo-goo eyes at Tinya while obviously being involved with Spider-Girl. That is a big no-no, pal. You wouldn't like either Tinya or Sussa when they're mad (and you haven't even met Tinya's mom yet!)

All in all a good issue which moved the plot along and provided a lot of nice moments along the way. When you think about it, not THAT much happened and it was basically a big prison brawl but it allowed the writers to highlight each of the dozen-plus characters involved. Lots of good moments here.

Last edited by Invisible Brainiac; 06/15/14 01:34 AM.
#797528 - 12/28/13 07:54 PM Re: Re-Reading the Postboot Legion! [Re: Invisible Brainiac]  
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For those of us who don't have the issues, I've gone back and added short summaries of each. They're very brief but give (I hope) a basic summary of the events for each.

#797794 - 12/30/13 10:59 PM Re: Re-Reading the Postboot Legion! [Re: Invisible Brainiac]  
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Legionnaires 22
Hard Time

Issue information

Summary:

The finale of Planet Hell! Will the combined intelligence of Brainiac 5, Invisible Kid and Evolvo be able to repair the shields and the magnetic tunnel? How will the Legionnaires, Workforce and prisoners deal with the stress of being slow-cooked inside a sun?

Thoughts:

The seeds of the Brainy-Lyle rivalry are planted here. Brainy doubts the level of Lyle's intelligence but acknowledges (perhaps a bit begrudgingly) his creativity. Lyle definitely knows that it's a bit of an issue for Brainy.

Lyle's not clean either - he refuses to admit his fear of heights (though he does successfully conquer it) and is a little cocky too (though he backs it up with results).

Brainy's very intelligently pragmatic and quickly takes charge, even giving Cosmic Boy a short speech about swift initiative (despite Cos just wanting to wish him good luck!). He knows he's smarter than Evolvo, Lyle and Imra but is willing to involve them, so we know his ego's not that big.

Some interesting insights derived from the incarcerated Legion/Workforce:

1) Live Wire and Spark still don't quite make peace despite their lives being in danger. There's quite a conflict here: Garth's mad at Ayla for taking his Legion slot, yet he also warns her about the lightning being dangerous because it builds up anger and violence. So if that's the case, why is Legion membership so important? Does he think it can help him control the lightning (but shouldn't he be happy that it will help Ayla?) Is it because he wants to be near Imra, or use the Legion's resources to find Mekt? There's a lot of conflict in that scene, and it shows that Garth's not totally clear on his priorities either.

2) XS and Karate Kid. Val's very quietly confident without being arrogant. He knows he can break through a forcefield (much to my and XS' surprise). XS shows she's probably the friendliest Legionnaire as she really tries to get to know Val. I don't think she's flirting with him, she's genuinely just friendly.

3) Chameleon and Leviathan. Cham's a nice guy, he just has the misfortune of being paired with grumpy and hot-headed Leviathan. He yells at Cham to leave him alone since they can't communicate (did he forget the telepathic earplugs? wait, have they even been introduced by now? perhaps not yet...) Cham gains a lot of points for bearing with it and offering Gim a snack!

4) Cosmic Boy/Apparition and Spider-Girl/Ultra Boy. Selfless Cos tells Tinya to phase, since it doesn't make sense that she don't. Tinya was just being nice. Makes me wonder, if the whole prison burns up in the star she'd likely survive in phased form - though she wouldn't be able to get out without outside help. I don't think her jetpack (if she could retrieve it) would be enough to get her back to Earth. Oh well.

Poor Tinya walks in on Jo and Sussa heavily making out. I think Tinya's shocked more by it being Jo (with whom she had a moment last issue) than by them kissing - she walked in on a naked guy using adult entertainment back at McCauley's Moon base remember?
Poor Tinya, and boy what a lug you are Jo. Playing around with two women at the same time. Okay, not quite playing around, but he obviously can't get Tinya off his mind. Not good.

I guess Sussa and Jo don't quite mind being seen? I mean, those prison screens are transparent...

5) Triad and Inferno. I'm not a fan of Inferno's rampant bullying, but she DID have a point as Triad's three bodies were taking up too much space. I still don't get the whole "I don't have to kill you" thing. I know she's pretty casual when it comes to killing, but really? Would she really have killed Triad for not re-integrating? Maybe she's just bluffing and maintaining her persona.

Imra has a great idea in using Bur Rac to calm the prisoners, but sadly she wasn't able to screen his thoughts. Oops. His racist thoughts point to a larger conspiracy afoot and may be related to the movement to destroy the UP.

Lyle pulls off a last-minute save by not only reactivating the forcefield, but causing it to repel the sun's energy and propel Planet Hell out of it! He can also generate the field anywhere he wants, and with a snap he contains all the prisoners.

Last page shows Jo talking with Tinya, and then attempting to pacify an angry Sussa. Grife, make up your mind will you? Garth is talking to Lu, but Ayla's nowhere to be seen - guess they still haven't made up. And Jenni's still hanging out with Val - boy, she sure is friendly! Or was something more being planned?

Planet Hell Part 3 is a good comic and shows how character relationships are handled well and made interesting. They take up as much space as the main action without slowing down the momentum of the story. Heck, each of the dozen-plus characters gets at least one good bit in this story! A+ for me.

Last edited by Invisible Brainiac; 06/15/14 01:34 AM.
#797798 - 12/30/13 11:47 PM Re: Re-Reading the Postboot Legion! [Re: Invisible Brainiac]  
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razsolo Offline
Deputy
razsolo  Offline
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I really loved this storyline when it came out! There's heaps of really good characterisations and it's a really unique threat! I am a big fan of stories where the team are isolated in a really hostile environment and there's not necessarily a villain to fight, I think it's great for exploring personalities and interpersonal relationships that wouldn't normally be seen (eg: I'm a big fan of the Triad/Inferno scene because you get so much in a very brief interaction....Triad's different personalities, her willingness to see logic in Inferno's words despite her abrasive nature, and we also see that even though Inferno at this stage is still really painted as an out & out villainous thug, she's not a MINDLESS thug).

I would love to do a Planet Hell homage in my series at some point if I can figure out a way to do it! smile


Read the alternate adventures of the Legion after Legion of Three Worlds!
postlo3w
#797864 - 12/31/13 08:54 PM Re: Re-Reading the Postboot Legion! [Re: Invisible Brainiac]  
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He Who Wanders Offline
She ran and called him Wildfire.
He Who Wanders  Offline
She ran and called him Wildfire.

Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 23,518
The Plateaus of Ecstasy
I'm finally getting a chance to catch up on this thread and perhaps re-read the issues. Here are my thoughts on Legionnaires 0, after Ibby's convenient summary.

Originally Posted by Invisible Brainiac

Legionnaires 0
Close Encounters


Summary:

Things are speeding up for the Legion - they're formally introduced/marketed to the UP and the team isn't quite receiving a warm welcome from all sectors. Can they foil a terrorist attack on the delegates and achieve respect and acceptance?

Familiar faces Tinya Wazzo and Luornu Durgo are in the right place at the right time, and the issue closes with the introductions of 6 more possible new members.



This was a very light and enjoyable read. It clearly was intended to appeal to a young audience. Since Mid-grade and Young Adult stories are often written for readers two years younger than the protagonists, it's easy to imagine this story being written with 12- to 13-year-olds in mind. It hits all the right marks that I would have loved at that age: the Legionnaires are suddenly thrust into overnight stardom. They have the world's richest man providing them costumes and code names. They get to make a dramatic presentation before the president and delegates. They even get to save the day. What 13-year-old wouldn't fall in love with the story and these characters?

I really have enjoyed this modern (well, not so modern now) re-imagining of the Legion's origin as it adds so much color, so much texture to the original series. The Legionnaires continue to exhibit believable teenaged personalities: they are impetuous, quarrelsome, and eager. But they also get the job done in spite of their inexperience.

The plot is exceptionally well done, moving fluidly from the infomercial to Brande's office, to the UP assembly and to the Legionnaires trailing the crooks on their own. If the story had ended there, it would have been complete. However, the creators give us something extra--two things extra, actually: the memberships of Tinya and Lu and the introductions of several other familiar faces in new contexts. A lot is accomplished here, yet it all feels natural.

The story is not without its flaws. Tinya's motivation isn't sufficiently explained. She goes from being a nervous girl terrified of her mother to taking down a would-be assassin almost single-handedly. The assumption of this version of the Legion is that young people with powers are automatically brave and therefore Legion material (which is also Chu's assumption, but she's a politician; she can afford hasty decisions).

I'm of two minds about the bomb sequence. Imra blurting out that there's a bomb and Garth endangering lives by destroying the roof shows, for one thing, that these Legionnaires aren't ready to be heroes and that Chu is rushing them too quickly into action (as is Brande, who should have made sure they were well trained before announcing their existence). On the other had, one would expect even such green Legionnaires to have an ounce of self control. If Imra had whispered her discovery to Rokk and Garth within earshot of some other loudmouth, and if Garth had had a moment's hesitation before considering that blasting the roof was the only way, their actions would seem more plausible and the same plot turns would have happened.

I'm also a bit troubled by the fact that Gim Allon, who is 17 or 18, is already a lieutenant in the Science Police and bucking for captain. While his quick rise through the ranks will eventually be explained as a political move, it just seems very unrealistic and an unnecessary conceit that kids get ahead far quicker than they would in the real world.

One of the pluses, though, is that this story shows us the political relationships of the 30th century and how much power Chu wields in order to conscript young people from different worlds. There is a an element of danger building as events quickly spiral out of the Legionnaires' control. At this point, they are little more than puppets on a larger stage, with Chu pulling the strings on one side and Doyle on the other. Like the best children's stories, our protagonists will find themselves facing overwhelming odds before they can prevail.

Grade: 93.4 (A)




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The Semi-Great Gildersleeve - writing, super-heroes, and this 'n' that
#797873 - 12/31/13 11:57 PM Re: Re-Reading the Postboot Legion! [Re: Invisible Brainiac]  
Joined: Jul 2003
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He Who Wanders Offline
She ran and called him Wildfire.
He Who Wanders  Offline
She ran and called him Wildfire.

Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 23,518
The Plateaus of Ecstasy
Originally Posted by Invisible Brainiac
Since the weekend is coming up, I sure hope more posters will be able to contribute!

Legion of Super-Heroes 62
Forced Friends, Deadly Consequences


Summary:

The Legion's membership has doubled, and they are quickly thrown into their first mission without the chance to really get to know one another. They investigate a series of spaceship disappearances, and what they find is pretty scary... Can the untested team pull together and survive this?



If ever a Legion story needed to be spread out over two issues, it's this one. I admire what was attempted here, but it feels rushed. In one issue, we've got five new Legionnaires, a mission, team conflict, a new villain, and a death. It feels like the story is rushing from scene to scene without stopping to let any of it sink in.

The story, to be sure, is well intentioned, and it gets off to a good start, with some nice interplay between the five existing Legionnaires. Garth and Rokk, the only two males on the team, buddy up and play with the new gadget (boys and their toys, indeed), while the three girls upstage them, pointing out the limitations of the toy and establishing that they're not going to stand idly by while the boys have all the fun. This initial scene was very well done.

After that, things move along at a frenetic pace. The creators do a good job of introducing the five new Legionnaires, showing the conflicts that exist in the UP, and establishing a dominant personality trait for each new member. But the story's major failing is that none of the characters move beyond their dominant trait because the story doesn't allow them room to do so. We've got Gim as the bigoted leader, James as the egotistical star, Jenni as the one who's in over her head, Lyle as the sneaky one, and Cham as the one who doesn't speak Interlac. The characters are stereotypes at this point, and the story doesn't afford them the opportunity to grow beyond being such.

It is very hard to believe that President Chu would throw such a team of teenagers together so quickly and then immediately send them on a mission to investigate missing spaceships. Even a politician who is interested only in promoting the Legion's brand (heh) would not do such a stupid thing: It's a disaster in the making.

Once the team boards the freighter, the action scenes turn out okay--although a couple of scenes need better transitions. Imra and Garth's initial encounter with Tangleweb is not shown, only the aftermath (page 14), leading to some confusion when one turns from page 13. Also, the bottom two panels on page 14 both have black backgrounds, leading me to think, at first, that they were the same panel. However, for the most part, the large cast is handled well and weaved in and out of the story with each Legionnaire getting a chance to do something and remind us of his or her personality trait.

Then James makes his fatal mistake. It's become a well recognized trope that if you've got one black guy on a team, that character is going to bite the dust (see also "X-Men: First Class"). His death is flawed for that reason and another: The whole point of James' death in the preboot was to establish why Legionnaires had to rely on natural abilities instead of devices. The limitations of James' power belt are mentioned in passing but in clunky, off-hand ways. This development really needed its own story in order to create the impact his death was intended to have.

Likewise, since neither we nor the Legionnaires got to know James, his death lacks any emotional impact. He's just a jerk who gets his comeuppance and gives Gim a reason to abdicate the leadership. Surely James deserved better.

Lee Moder's art is another weak point in the story. It looks very awkward and ugly in places, though, to his credit, it's always easy to tell what's going on. The layouts, too, keep the reader moving along.

As for Tangleweb, he (?) is a nothing villain, a one-dimensional monster used to illustrate the story's purpose: You can't force a team to be a team. Politics and image have nothing to do with whether or not a team can function. In some ways, the story succeeds in illustrating this point. I just wish it had been given more room to breathe.

Grade: 63.0 (D)


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The Semi-Great Gildersleeve - writing, super-heroes, and this 'n' that
#797893 - 01/01/14 04:25 AM Re: Re-Reading the Postboot Legion! [Re: He Who Wanders]  
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 57,408
Invisible Brainiac Offline
Unseen, not unheard
Invisible Brainiac  Offline
Unseen, not unheard

Joined: Oct 2003
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Wouldn't you like to know?
I'm very glad that you've jumped in with your thoughts, raz and HWW! smile Hope to hear more frmo you.

Originally Posted by razsolo
I really loved this storyline when it came out! There's heaps of really good characterisations and it's a really unique threat! I am a big fan of stories where the team are isolated in a really hostile environment and there's not necessarily a villain to fight, I think it's great for exploring personalities and interpersonal relationships that wouldn't normally be seen {snip)

I would love to do a Planet Hell homage in my series at some point if I can figure out a way to do it! smile


I'm a big fan of throwing two random characters together and seeing what we can come up with myself, and I echo your sentiments. Would be excited to read your take on this raz!

Originally Posted by He Who Wanders
I'm finally getting a chance to catch up on this thread and perhaps re-read the issues. Here are my thoughts on Legionnaires 0, after Ibby's convenient summary.

This was a very light and enjoyable read. It clearly was intended to appeal to a young audience. Since Mid-grade and Young Adult stories are often written for readers two years younger than the protagonists, it's easy to imagine this story being written with 12- to 13-year-olds in mind. It hits all the right marks that I would have loved at that age: the Legionnaires are suddenly thrust into overnight stardom. They have the world's richest man providing them costumes and code names. They get to make a dramatic presentation before the president and delegates. They even get to save the day. What 13-year-old wouldn't fall in love with the story and these characters?

Grade: 93.4 (A)




I would have just turned 14 when this issue came out, and I distinctly remember being awed that the Legionnaires were about my age yet were being thrown into (and succeeding at) these adventures. I agree with you, everything seemed natural in this issue yet quite a lot happened!

Re LSH 62, I also agree that too much happened too quickly. Too many new Legionnaires, a short and fast-paced mission and a hollow death. James, we hardly knew ya.

#797905 - 01/01/14 06:44 AM Re: Re-Reading the Postboot Legion! [Re: Invisible Brainiac]  
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 57,408
Invisible Brainiac Offline
Unseen, not unheard
Invisible Brainiac  Offline
Unseen, not unheard

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 57,408
Wouldn't you like to know?
Not sure how much free time I'll have in the next few days, so I'll throw out my last review for a bit. Looking forward to various other reviewers catching up smile

Legion of Super-Heroes 66
Membership Drive

Issue information

Summary:

Membership drive! This is one of my favorite issues as we're introduced to three new members: familiar face Shrinking Violet; somewhat familiar face Andromeda, who reminds us of 5YL creation Laurel Gand; and completely new face (though with familiar Life Lass powers) Kinetix. This is a much better "introduction" issue than LSH 62 was as we are given enough time to really get to know each of the three.

We also see two "rejects" who do not join for various reasons: Lume, an energy being with light and heat powers; and the teleporting bug Gates.

Thoughts:

The 3 New Legionnaires

Each of the 3 newbies adds a very different set of skills and personalities to the team.

Shrinking Violet is possibly the best hand-to-hand fighter the team has now, as others who've demonstrated some combat skills (Apparition, Saturn Girl, Invisible Kid, Triad) have not shown a level of skill anywhere near Violet's! Her ability to shrink down to the subatomic level is also a key asset, as anyone familiar with the JLA's Atom knows. Her shyness is greatly balanced out by the fact that she's extremely confident in battle; she's clearly had a lot of training, more than most of her teammates.

Kinetix's ability to animate inanimate objects makes a good long-range weapon, and would also be useful in non-combat situations like search and rescue. Her description here makes it clear that she has to control the object when she uses her power on it, so it's not as though she actually gives them a life of their own. She's the most personable of the three and looks like she would get along with everyone else; her fascination with increasing her already impressive powers (making her late for the tryout) is a mild warning button but besides that she looks like she has the makings of a great Legionnaire.

Andromeda is easily the most powerful Legionnaire right now, and she demonstrates impressive control over her powers (she should be strong enough to crush her trainers, but manages to punch one relatively unharmed into the nearby pool)! Sadly, her extreme xenophobia and the need of a transuit to protect her from lead are glaring weaknesses.

The story

Each of the introductions is designed to let us discover what makes each of the characters unique. Andromeda's is a combat situation that neatly shows off all her powers, and demonstrates how bad her xenophobia is. At the very least, she's not actively violent against the others; she doesn't so much as hate other races as just deems them grossly inferior. Of course, the UP (despite some of their questionable decisions lately) wouldn't be so dumb as to accept a Legionnaire who might murder her teammates in their sleep. she'll be difficult to work with, but she'll do her job.

We're also promised a new Xanthuan Legionnaire who's been in a space-cruiser accident. Longtime fans surely picked up on that wink Star Boy's coming!

I applaud Imra for continuing to be strong and questioning Chu on their membership decisions. Of course, she does also prejudge the new Xanthuan Legionnaire based on her opinion of Kid Quantum.

It was nice seeing Gim and Cham getting along a lot better. Cham's selfless gesture on Planet Hell paid off!


Gim and Cham travel to Silvan to pick up the energy-being Lume, who throws off heat and light. You already see him with some limited shape-changing ability (in one panel he suddenly shrinks, and his default form seems to be as a small burst of light). Sadly, he can't leave his homeworld - is it because he's physically prevented from doing so or he's just afraid of the dark? Too bad, as Lume's powers were promising and he would have added a lot of diversity.

Their second jaunt is to Vyrga, to meet future Legionnaire Gates. I'm pretty sure the letter-columns somewhere revealed that Gates was originally supposed to be a one-shot reject character; I'm glad they eventually did use him. He and Lume helped expand our knowledge of the UP to include some very "alien" worlds. Gates' teleportation powers are also very potent - he can teleport other objects even without being in contact with them. 'Porting Gim and Cham into the air over a sharp cliff was pretty dirty and dangerous though. "Teenage death squad" has got to be one of the funniest phrases I've read since the series started!

Triad's still harboring some resentment towards Inferno - not surprising tongue

Last one is Aleph, for Kinetix. We meet her in a cave where she's searching for something to give her more power. Her brother Thanot probably echoes what was on a lot of reader's minds; her power's already pretty impressive, why play with things that may not actually strengthen her but instead do much more grievous harm?

Her preparations for her audition show a much more "typical teenager" side to her; using her power to have fun and try on different outfits. Hey, who among us would not love to use superpowers such as this in our everyday lives right? She has a nice sense of style too - and she thinks Cham is cute! Here's a hero who wants to have fun, and I found it immediately appealing and attractive wink Leviathan does as well, apparently. Wonder if this will go anywhere, and if Kinetix can help temper his rough spots. It was also good of the writers to have Chameleon participate in Zoe's power demonstration, as his shapeshifting helped show how versatile her own powers can be.

Now we head over to Imsk where Apparition and Spark are tasked with picking an Imskite. Tinya's clearly taking the lead here - the way she told off the insensitive cop made me cheer. Her experience helping out her mom paid off. The cop's attitude is very immature in fact; I'd think even a "normal" citizen would be in his/her place telling off that cop.

The contest between Violet, Ion and Micro takes a deadly turn as Ion is murdered by Micro. The mystery isn't too deep - an auraflux blade was planted on her and both Violet and Micro would have had motive. Violet's actions clearly show it wouldn't be her unless she's a very good actress, and it would have been surprising to say the least. But the way the mystery was solved is very satisfying, with good teamwork from Spark, Apparition and Violet and a very astounding fight scene where Violet absolutely creams Micro through intelligent use of her powers and amazing combat skills. Tinya's glowing endorsement shows that Violet really is likely the best fighter in the current lineup. Violet really wanted to earn her membership - and she did.

And so we end with 13 Legionnaires, 5 guys and 8 gals. The Legion's always had a pretty decent balance between the sexes, but I can't remember the last time the females outnumbered the males. What's even better is that each of the Legionnaires has a very different personality (and Triad has 3!).

All in all an exciting issue which had a lot of action, and promises a lot more action, drama and fun to come! Definitely an A+ for me.

Last edited by Invisible Brainiac; 06/15/14 01:35 AM.
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