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League of Super-Assassins: Ahead of its Time?
#797577 12/29/13 10:24 PM
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I have been thinking a lot about the League of Super-Assassins. They might be the most balanced team in the 31st century. The characters have a variety of appearances and powers. The back-story for this group is compelling; they are not bad for the sake of being bad.

I loved watching Cowboy Bebop so I like reading about these sort of groups. I have only seen them appear in a few issues, and they often appeared as part of the League of Super-Villains, which doesn't help whatever reputation they have. Then I thought about and realized that the Comics Code was still in force when these issues were around. It might have been difficult to use these characters in stories. I so realize that their name is very similar to a Batman villainous organization, so that might need to be tweaked or retconned to be a homage to avoid confusion.

I wonder if they would have done better if they debuted in the '90s, after Watchmen's Effect was in full swing. I also wonder why nobody used them in the Threeboot or Retroboot, considering the popularity of characters such as Deadpool and Taskmaster.

Do you think the League of Assassins would have done better if they debuted at a later date? Do you think they deserved better?


Go with the good and you'll be like them; go with the evil and you'll be worse than them.- Portuguese Proverb
Re: League of Super-Assassins: Ahead of its Time?
Emily Sivana #797586 12/30/13 02:31 AM
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I think they are an awesome and as you said quite well-balanced team, but their team name kind of shoots them in the collective foot. A League of Super-Assassins needs to kill someone every now and then or they're gonna come across as lame. I think another problem is that Titania & Silver Slasher are both very physical threats but until comparatively recently nearly all of the Legion women have had little to no use in combat, and I can't see old-school comic writers being okay with the male Legionnaires beating up on a couple of girls....so I imagine it would have limited how they could be used in the old days.

I think you're right, they would have benefited a lot more from being introduced at a more permissive time....or even being reintroduced with a few tweaks to serve as another decent threat for the postboot Legion! Monstress vs Titania and Silver Slasher vs Ferro would be very cool to see!

Re: League of Super-Assassins: Ahead of its Time?
Emily Sivana #797597 12/30/13 06:41 AM
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Thinking of the Legion of Super Villains saga that launched the Baxter run, every villain swore an oath to kill a Legionnaire. It was pretty grim. Yet, the only one to die was one who essentially committed suicide.

I'm not sure about the code, as the blackened corpse of a burned Karate Kid and the broken body of Nemesis Kid definitely had an impact.

I recall the fights drifting from one side to the other. No side seemingly sustaining the level of injury that such a fight would have produced. In one scene some would be unconscious, yet they are all back in a another scene to turn the tide.

On no occasion did any villain take advantage to kill someone off. So, it's violence for the sake of violence with no repercussions, which I find more worrying than the graphic parts smile

As for the LSA, I have two issues with their portrayal in that story:-

[Linked Image]

How exactly does Dream Girl get out without being scarred for life? What changed Slasher's mind to kill her? Could it be that they all picked one Legionnaire, but never got to face that Legionnaire in direct combat. One huge mix up? smile

I just think that Levitz gave the villains a very final purpose, but then didn't want to deliver more than a token sacrifice to it. The result is that the villains become less and less effective.

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The gloating misogynistic expressions of the Legionnaires has always being frankly creepy.

Oh, and Lazon for some comic relief

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Re: League of Super-Assassins: Ahead of its Time?
Emily Sivana #797599 12/30/13 07:18 AM
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Yeah, those scenes with Slasher & Lazon always bugged me...putting Dreamy in that situation and then showing no consequences is the kind of thing Kathy Bates' character in Misery would have had an aneurysm over. And with Lazon, if he's just a normal dude who flies at lightspeed, Dawnstar should have had a lot more than radiation burns to worry about when he hit her.

It's another example of Levitz just phoning it in IMO....with the technology they have available, there's no reason you can't have villains do real life-threatening damage. Dream Girl's arm gets cut off? Lucky they cauterised the wound till they could grow her a new one! Radiation Roy gives Ultra Boy cancer? Good thing they can accurately target and remove all the right cells once they get him to Medicus One! It's the kind of thing where battles can still have high stakes because the help isn't immediate, but you can have some of the more lethal villains actually show it every now and then without having to wipe out your cast..

Re: League of Super-Assassins: Ahead of its Time?
Emily Sivana #797600 12/30/13 07:44 AM
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If all the LSV wanted to do was get Orando out of the universe and into one that they could control, that would have been fine. There would have been a few parting shots, but the LSV would be concerned with keeping themselves alive and out of prison to be there for the transfer.

But by making them hell bent on killing off the Legion as well, they set themselves up for something they didn't deliver on in the slightest. An ominous start to the story but by the big battles on Orando I'm really wondering why no one is really hurt.

Like you say razsolo, if you're going to name a team the assassins you're going to have to show them assassinating something. If they are targeting the Legion, anything less than trying their best to kill simply makes them look weak.

I'm reminded of the endless fight of the Legion of 3 worlds. Dozens of LSH villains, including the LSA, lumped together for the sole purpose of having a fight scene. That's what the LSV & LSA were reduced to. Second and third stringers to take the place of goons. they are better than that.





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Re: League of Super-Assassins: Ahead of its Time?
Emily Sivana #797623 12/30/13 09:44 AM
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Given their origins, it probably would've made a lot more sense for them to turn into anti-heroes and ditch the whole "super-assassins" shtick after their initial appearance.

In the original line-up Titania was always bizarrely redundant with Blok, so I always wished they would've have given her something unique, like the ability to grow to giant size or something.

Re: League of Super-Assassins: Ahead of its Time?
Emily Sivana #797635 12/30/13 10:07 AM
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Perhaps they already had plans for Blok, and wanted to keep her around as the group's powerhouse. I'm not sure why Blok wasn't redundant in the Legion. Super density in a team with invulnerable members always seemed odd.


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Re: League of Super-Assassins: Ahead of its Time?
Emily Sivana #797638 12/30/13 10:18 AM
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That's one reason I never really warmed up to Blok as much as I could have. I always wished his powers had added more variety to the team - especially when Nightwind was passed up at around the same time. I did like his personality though.

As to the discussion on Dream Girl vs. Slasher, Ultra Boy vs. Lazon, I always did wonder how Jo could have punched a ray of light. And Dreamy's EEEEEEEEE really made it seem like she should have been severely wounded at best. Oh well, maybe Slasher just ruined her perfect 'do.

Heck, Neutrax and the Mist Master together should have been able to take out a lot of Legionnaires before they even saw them coming.

I do give points for them having the two females (Silver Slasher and Titania) have the more physical powers among the 5 (minus Blok).

Have the Super-Assassins actually successfully assassinated anyone?

Re: League of Super-Assassins: Ahead of its Time?
Emily Sivana #797646 12/30/13 10:40 AM
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Lazon murdered some SP officers in their first appearance and that was about it from those two issues.

The League of Sneaky Killers" didn't have a ring to it perhaps?

That was back when they were six humans from the planet Korlon, changed by the Dark Man.

"To think that less than a year ago, we were six normal beings, no more powerful than any other members of the human race." - Mist Master.

The subs took them down in #254. It shows the subs at their best, as very capable opponents working together. Foreshadows the 5YG subs nicely. Night Girl takes down two and then gives Titania one heck of a punch. You do not mess with Lydda Jath.


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Re: League of Super-Assassins: Ahead of its Time?
Invisible Brainiac #797657 12/30/13 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Invisible Brainiac


As to the discussion on Dream Girl vs. Slasher, Ultra Boy vs. Lazon, I always did wonder how Jo could have punched a ray of light. And Dreamy's EEEEEEEEE really made it seem like she should have been severely wounded at best. Oh well, maybe Slasher just ruined her perfect 'do.


Maybe Slasher broke one of her nails, and Dreamy just screamed in sympathy?

Re: League of Super-Assassins: Ahead of its Time?
Eryk Davis Ester #797658 12/30/13 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Eryk Davis Ester


Maybe Slasher broke one of her nails, and Dreamy just screamed in sympathy?

Now I want a storyline where Silver Slasher whirls in and mildly inconveniences a bunch of Legionnaires who'd be drama queens about it. See Dream Girl scream in terror as she breaks a nail! Witness Kono's horror at being forced into a dress! View Brainy's meltdown when everything in his lab gets moved three inches to the right! Etc etc wink

Re: League of Super-Assassins: Ahead of its Time?
Emily Sivana #797660 12/30/13 11:43 AM
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Re: League of Super-Assassins: Ahead of its Time?
Eryk Davis Ester #797666 12/30/13 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Eryk Davis Ester
[quote=Invisible Brainiac]Maybe Slasher broke one of her nails, and Dreamy just screamed in sympathy?


Aw, they've bonded. That's so sweet!

Although Dreamy would never say "bonded" in case it reminded Ki-Lan (we can call her that now that she's not trying to kill us) of her predicament with the metallic coating she has.


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Re: League of Super-Assassins: Ahead of its Time?
Emily Sivana #797784 12/30/13 11:02 PM
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Lazon could generate flashes of light that blind Legionnaires at the most annoying moments and cause them to spill stuff on their costumes!

Mist Master could flood the HQ with bad odors!

Let her meet Postboot Ferro from the time when he was stuck in iron form. They'll have quite a lot to talk about.

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Re: LEGION Convention Sketches / Drawings / Comissions
Monkey Eater Lad #797807 12/31/13 02:02 AM
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I wondering about the League of Super-Assassins...I read the story which introduces them and it states that they were all normal once (as in normal humanoids i assume). It also goes on to say that Blok had just changed his name to Blok and that he looked different before the story took place.

My question is...What did the citizens of Dryad look like? Were they human? Did they all have Blok's stony appearance? How did Blok receive his powers?


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Re: League of Super-Assassins: Ahead of its Time?
Emily Sivana #797808 12/31/13 03:52 AM
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I spotted this on the convention art thread and thought it would be relevant here.

Originally Posted by Phantom Girl
I wondering about the League of Super-Assassins...I read the story which introduces them and it states that they were all normal once (as in normal humanoids i assume). It also goes on to say that Blok had just changed his name to Blok and that he looked different before the story took place.

My question is...What did the citizens of Dryad look like? Were they human? Did they all have Blok's stony appearance? How did Blok receive his powers?


Going by that first story it would appear that they were all human. The six kids were transformed by the Dark Man. That included Blok.

It would have been later that Blok was separated as being of a different species to the others.


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Re: League of Super-Assassins: Ahead of its Time?
Emily Sivana #797851 12/31/13 12:21 PM
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The League had a preponderance of characters with one of my favorite powers, an alternate form of some other substance.

Silver Slasher was body of metal, like Ferro or Colossus, Blok was body of stone, like the Thing or Grey Gargoyle, Mist Master could turn into a gaseous form, like Gas Girl or Veil, and Lazon could transform into a body of energy, like Monica Rambeau or Black Vulcan.

And Neutrax had a very original sort of power, rarely seen, to neutralize energy, even to the extent of killing someone with a glance (presumably by neutralizing their bio-electricity or body heat or something...).

I like how they sometimes seemed to have fairly distinct personalities, for a group seen so briefly, at times. Mist Master was the psychopath, who seemed to get off on being able to turn into a cloud of suffocating gas or acid and torment civilians or mundane security types. Titania seemed brutal, yet also business-like and 'a good soldier,' like some versions of Colossal Boy, more there out of duty than out of any sort of idealism. Silver Slasher was making the best of her situation, in a sense, having been turned into a cold steel unfeeling monster with knives for hands, she was going to embrace that and become the unfeeling monster...

From a fanfic perspective, I feel like I've got a lot more 'meat' to work with personality-wise with the League of Super-Assassins than I would have with characters like Esper Lass or Chameleon Chief, who may have been around longer, but often appeared with much bigger groups, and never felt quite so well-established, in characterization.


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Re: League of Super-Assassins: Ahead of its Time?
Emily Sivana #798829 01/14/14 03:28 PM
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There is this idea (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/League_of_Super-Assassins) that they were intended to be analogs of members of the X-Men. But I always assumed, because of how visually similar Neutrax is to Metron, that they were based on Fourth World characters. My guesses would be:

Bloc - Kalibak
Lazon - Lightray
Mist Master - Doctor Bedlam
Neutrax - Metron
Slasher - Mad Harriet
Titania - Big Barda

Re: League of Super-Assassins: Ahead of its Time?
Emily Sivana #798847 01/14/14 08:23 PM
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They never felt that much like X-Men analogues to me, anyway. Yeah, there's a dude in a wheelchair, and Blok does have certain Colossus-like qualities (gentle soul in a big bruiser body), but Silver Slasher is very different from Wolverine, and Titania, Lazon and Mist Master don't have real X-analogues (which, given that the X-teams rosters rival Legion rosters for membership, over the years, is pretty impressive all by itself!).

Lazon - Lightray, Slasher - Mad Harriet and Titania - Big Barda seem like good parallels.



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Re: League of Super-Assassins: Ahead of its Time?
Emily Sivana #798910 01/15/14 07:09 PM
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That wiki article asserts that they were used for an unofficial crossover, but that would require a lot of communication between the writers at that time. I am a fan of the Fourth World, so if their creator was a follower of Kirby, that makes perfect sense. It is too bad the Dark Man wasn't revealed to be a Fourth World agent, but maybe it will be retconned someday.


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Re: League of Super-Assassins: Ahead of its Time?
Emily Sivana #922569 02/26/17 04:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Emily Sivana
I have been thinking a lot about the League of Super-Assassins. They might be the most balanced team in the 31st century. The characters have a variety of appearances and powers. The back-story for this group is compelling; they are not bad for the sake of being bad.

I loved watching Cowboy Bebop so I like reading about these sort of groups. I have only seen them appear in a few issues, and they often appeared as part of the League of Super-Villains, which doesn't help whatever reputation they have. Then I thought about and realized that the Comics Code was still in force when these issues were around. It might have been difficult to use these characters in stories.

Do you think the League of Assassins...deserved better?


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My belated 2 cents on the League, in my reviews of the issues which introduced them, originally posted in the Archives Re-Read Volume 15 thread:

Originally Posted by Fanfic Lady
Kudos to Conway for presenting the Assassins with as many shades of gray as a Late Bronze Age DC superhero comic would allow. Blok, of course, is the standout, even without already knowing that he has a future on the side of the angels. But this also has a jarring and discomforting effect on readers who, like me, knew Blok as the gentle if slightly edgy giant from the Baxter Era (I believe I bought the back issues of this 2-parter a little under 3 years ago -- I'd only read them once before, and my memories of them were vague before this re-read.) Because although Blok is already the most ambivalent and eloquent of the Assassins, later in the issue Conway has him punch Ayla to apparently lethal effect. This does not compute with the gentlemanly Baxter Blok, and when all Blok continuity is looked at in this changed perspective, the overall picture that emerges of him is not a nice one at all.

The rest of the Assassins, while not as complex as Blok, still make a strong first impression, particularly the two female members, Silver Slasher and Titania. And although Slasher is the more obviously iconic -- with her cool visual, her scary powers which have also limited her abilities to interact safely with others, and her bloodlust tempered just enough by the occasional glimmer of humanity struggling to break through -- Titania's my clear choice for personal favorite, with her super-strength and her no-nonsense attitude. It doesn't hurt that we see her gleefully crush the Ultra Boy dummy's head to powder, and then later in the story, she kicks that damn Ultra-Poser's arse.


Originally Posted by Fanfic Lady
IMO, having Superboy be one step ahead of the Assassins the whole time is not only the very worst kind of Mary Sue-ing, even by average Pre-1980 Superboy standards, it also leaves the Assassins -- who in issue #253 came across to me as an interesting group of new villains with great potential all around -- reduced to ineffectual comedy-relief buffoons on the level of the Mutants from the old Thundercats TV cartoon.


And to add some random thoughts:

- I do think they deserved better. And the way Levitz pretty much treated them like cannon fodder to pad out the team in the LSH vs LSV arc kind of grates with me, now that I have a better appreciation of their potential.

- I like EDE's idea that Titania should have super-growth powers. An alien successor to Wonder Woman villainess Giganta's legacy, 1,000 years ahead.

- I've been playing for quite a while with the concept of having one of my 7 personal "toy-box fanfic" Legions be the Legion of Anti-Heroes, and while a lot of it is still in the formative stages, the gist is that this particular Legion time-line diverts after the Shooter/Grell battle against the Time Trapper, and while there are plenty of nods to the Bronze Age Legion canon, one crucial difference is that it's not Blok who joins the Legion, it's Titania. And that turns out, in hindsight, to be the turning point where the team's metamorphosis from super-heroes to anti-heroes begins. Titania

I also visualize a highly dramatic scene where Superboy leaves the Legion not because of the lame reason in the canon continuity, but because he cannot stomach what his one-time friends (those who haven't already died or quit, that is) have been turning into.


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Re: League of Super-Assassins: Ahead of its Time?
Fanfic Lady #922599 02/26/17 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Fanfic Lady
I also visualize a highly dramatic scene where Superboy leaves the Legion not because of the lame reason in the canon continuity, but because he cannot stomach what his one-time friends (those who haven't already died or quit, that is) have been turning into.


Legion #300 provides both Superboy leaving in just such a manner, but also shows a member of the assassins, who has not quite gone over to the side of good after joining the Legion.

As for the League, I'd like to see them move on from their LSV affiliations, if the latter group is expressly interested in bumping off the Legion. Some may consider the UP records to be propaganda, and that their distorted memories are the correct ones. Some may have found their incarceration mentally destabilising (which wouldn't take much), others may accept the truth only to realise that their crimes mean that they're stuck on a path of villainy. That sort of thing.



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Re: League of Super-Assassins: Ahead of its Time?
thoth lad #922613 02/26/17 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by thoth lad
Some may consider the UP records to be propaganda, and that their distorted memories are the correct ones. Some may have found their incarceration mentally destabilising (which wouldn't take much), others may accept the truth only to realise that their crimes mean that they're stuck on a path of villainy. That sort of thing.


I tend to characterize them as a mix like this. Neutrax is the most sane of the group, aware that they've been lied to by the Dark Man, but too loyal to his friends to abandon them. Mist Master is psychotic and loves nothing more than to turn to acid and dissolve people. Lazon is conflicted, but weak-willed and goes along with the flow. Silver Slasher hates her current state, and is taking out her frustration on the world, punishing them for her inability to have a normal human life. Titania has a temper, and probably wouldn't fit in anywhere less violent, although she could turn the bend, if she had better chances (and better choices, and better people around her).

Probably my least favorite thing about the League appearances, is a scene in the LSV war was a scene at the end where Titania is beaten and Ultra Boy makes some chains and Mon-El quips that it's a good idea, that chains are right for that one. Ugh. That line just annoys me irrationally, since it reeks of misogyny, IMO.



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Re: League of Super-Assassins: Ahead of its Time?
Emily Sivana #922615 02/26/17 10:18 AM
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Yeah, I've also pointed out that panel as something that seemed very wrong when I read it as a kid, and has just grown in wrongness since.

There would be lines that Neutrax and Lazon would have crossed to stay with the others. I can't imagine Slasher not having killed (still no idea how Dream Girl survived) and Titania's strength will have accounted for a few bodies by now. Mist Master is just a nut job, and may be too much for any of them to deal with really.


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Re: League of Super-Assassins: Ahead of its Time?
Emily Sivana #922616 02/26/17 11:13 AM
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Wow, this old thread has some life left in it!

I do have ideas for a text based RPG where the League of Super-Assasins establish a Jabba the Hut-esque empire. It would be kind of like Cowboy Bebops meets the Legion.


Go with the good and you'll be like them; go with the evil and you'll be worse than them.- Portuguese Proverb
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