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Legionnaire Mastermind
by Invisible Brainiac - 03/29/24 04:07 AM
Wheel of Fortune / Hangman Season 3
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I'm Thinking of a DCU character Part 6!
by Invisible Brainiac - 03/29/24 04:05 AM
Legion Trivia 6
by Invisible Brainiac - 03/29/24 04:05 AM
Kill This Thread XLIX - We're Getting Old
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The Non-Legion Comics Trivia Thread Pt 5
by thoth lad - 03/29/24 03:38 AM
Recent Legion-verse sightings in DCU proper
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Who's Who in Raz's Legion? *added ALEK ARCANE 4 February*
by Invisible Brainiac - 03/28/24 11:42 AM
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Re: Re-Reading the Postboot Legion!
Invisible Brainiac #807682 05/10/14 08:56 PM
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I agree, his best depictions balance his high standards with his keen understanding of human behavior and his high emotional intelligence. I'm reminded of the JSA miniseries a while back, where an issue pointed out that the original Mr. Terrific had such high standards that it drove him nuts when others couldn't live up to them. Cosmic Boy should NOT be in the same boat, IMO.

Re: Re-Reading the Postboot Legion!
Invisible Brainiac #807781 05/11/14 03:26 PM
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It's tough reviewing a comic when you know that what happens in a future issue or issues will cast what you're reviewing in a different light. In regards to Cos's behavior, this is the point when he's starting to playact to keep Chu unaware, isn't it?

About Jan... I wonder how much of his philosophy was created between the annual and this issue? By the writers, I mean.

I always felt he was a bit younger than his teammates. And even younger in terms of how his culture raised him, at least in some ways. As such, I thought his understanding of the Trom philosophy/ spirituality a particularly adolescent one. Which ultimately led to his utter destruction as a character.

Re: Re-Reading the Postboot Legion!
Mystery Lad #807796 05/11/14 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Mystery Lad


I always felt [Jan] was a bit younger than his teammates. And even younger in terms of how his culture raised him, at least in some ways. As such, I thought his understanding of the Trom philosophy/ spirituality a particularly adolescent one. Which ultimately led to his utter destruction as a character.


I think this is an excellent insight.

When one is asked to describe the culture one lives in, it's hard for any of us to do. Looking at Trommite philosophy through the lens of religion may shed further light: When one who is a Christian is asked to describe what being a Christian means, that person gives his or her own interpretation--and that interpretation is not always consistent with how one behaves!

In Jan's case, he had no elders to "correct" him or point out where his understanding of Trommite philosophy may have gone off the deep end (as extremists in any religion are wont to do). He had no formal schooling in his culture's ways after the age of 13 or so. (And who at age 13 really knows anything? smile ) And so he had to take his limited education and lack of adult experience and build from there--with horrific results.

Of course, Jan Arrah is not a typical religious fanatic--he did spend millennia in isolation on top of losing his parents and entire race--but I think you've nailed it as to why his explanations of Trommite beliefs seem inconsistent.


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Re: Re-Reading the Postboot Legion!
Mystery Lad #807806 05/11/14 08:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Mystery Lad
It's tough reviewing a comic when you know that what happens in a future issue or issues will cast what you're reviewing in a different light. In regards to Cos's behavior, this is the point when he's starting to playact to keep Chu unaware, isn't it?



Yes, it is tongue I had to put myself in the shoes of someone who hadn't read future issues either. But I have to say, the writers did a decent and believable job of making it seem like the build up of pressure on Cos was what caused his behavior.

Re: Re-Reading the Postboot Legion!
He Who Wanders #807807 05/11/14 08:59 PM
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Originally Posted by He Who Wanders
Originally Posted by Mystery Lad


I always felt [Jan] was a bit younger than his teammates. And even younger in terms of how his culture raised him, at least in some ways. As such, I thought his understanding of the Trom philosophy/ spirituality a particularly adolescent one. Which ultimately led to his utter destruction as a character.


I think this is an excellent insight.

When one is asked to describe the culture one lives in, it's hard for any of us to do. Looking at Trommite philosophy through the lens of religion may shed further light: When one who is a Christian is asked to describe what being a Christian means, that person gives his or her own interpretation--and that interpretation is not always consistent with how one behaves!

In Jan's case, he had no elders to "correct" him or point out where his understanding of Trommite philosophy may have gone off the deep end (as extremists in any religion are wont to do). He had no formal schooling in his culture's ways after the age of 13 or so. (And who at age 13 really knows anything? smile ) And so he had to take his limited education and lack of adult experience and build from there--with horrific results.

Of course, Jan Arrah is not a typical religious fanatic--he did spend millennia in isolation on top of losing his parents and entire race--but I think you've nailed it as to why his explanations of Trommite beliefs seem inconsistent.


I agree, that makes a lot of sense.

His inconsistencies started way before he became the Progenitor. As early as L*55 you have Live Wire worrying about Jan being spacey. In L* Annual 2 you have him expressing anger at the Daxamite White Trianglists and wondering how they will be punished, while in LSH 72 he envies his peoples' death. In LSH 83 he thinks suicidal thoughts and claims death is his heart's desire. In L*67 he talks fatalistically about a boy trapped in a cave-in.

Perhaps part of this was a way to cope with the death of his entire homeworld? He could have magnified the teachings about death being a change in order to soothe his feelings of loss and sadness.

Re: Re-Reading the Postboot Legion!
Invisible Brainiac #810875 06/09/14 06:28 AM
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Mind if I join in, everyone? Give this thread a little bump.

Some thoughts on Legion of Super-Heroes v4 #72:

This bold "second chapter" for the team after the long-running White Triangle storyline definitely doesn't have the impact on a re-read it first did. So many of the vexing plights are resolved mere months later in a positive way (Tinya's death, Cos' personality shift, the blockage of new members, Andromeda's isolation, Kinetix is missing!, etc). Thus, this issue leaves little to no historical impact despite appearances which makes a re-read feel like filler.

You definitely see here how well the subplots of the first 18 months of the reboot were planned. Many are mentioned or begun in this issue even if they don't progress far. We didn't know it at time of publication, but in retrospect this issue was REALLY all about setting up Cos and Chu as they embark on their endgame missions to undermine the other. Winema's understandable hysterics here also set her up as the red herring she ultimately became when the Legion tricks Chu.

Upon dissection, I can see why first-time readers wouldn't have much to praise either. The team and the reader get emotionally beat up this issue. Any shred of hope in this aftermath story gets under-minded in the same issue - from Cos' about-face on his morale speech to the prospect of new Legionnaires getting rejected.

Even the set-up for Dr. Regulus, which would surely bring about the reboot of Sun Boy, really didn't turn out like Preboot Legion fans probably wanted. Quite the opposite - nothing came of Dirk and Regulus ultimately cost the team Gim.

My favorite page is probably the interaction between R.J. Brande and Chameleon, which has some obviously intentional nods through scripting about their relationship in the Preboot. There's something heartwarming about R.J. fretting over his "kids"/Legionnaires.

Also good to see Gim's reference to his positive experience with Andromeda against Tangleweb. I always hated that their dynamic/relationship never was featured again before his death considering it was an example of Legionnaires learning to work together despite their differences.

That sure is a neat Alan Davis cover though! Props to the writers for throwing in as many supporting characters as they could in this one, too.

Re: Re-Reading the Postboot Legion!
Future #810878 06/09/14 06:43 AM
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Mind? Of course not, we're happy to have you actively reviewing too!

Originally Posted by Future

This bold "second chapter" for the team after the long-running White Triangle storyline definitely doesn't have the impact on a re-read it first did. So many of the vexing plights are resolved mere months later in a positive way (Tinya's death, Cos' personality shift, the blockage of new members, Andromeda's isolation, Kinetix is missing!, etc). Thus, this issue leaves little to no historical impact despite appearances which makes a re-read feel like filler.

You definitely see here how well the subplots of the first 18 months of the reboot were planned. Many are mentioned or begun in this issue even if they don't progress far. We didn't know it at time of publication, but in retrospect this issue was REALLY all about setting up Cos and Chu as they embark on their endgame missions to undermine the other. Winema's understandable hysterics here also set her up as the red herring she ultimately became when the Legion tricks Chu.


That's a very good point, Future. On one hand, the subplots were planned really well; on the other, they seem to have been planned so well that the resolution of this next storyline managed to wrap almost all of them up in one fell swoop! (Andromeda, Kinetix, Live Wire, Ultra Boy, Element Lad and M'Onel all return together, as does XS; Cosmic Boy reveals his end game in the same issue too).

Originally Posted by Future


Even the set-up for Dr. Regulus, which would surely bring about the reboot of Sun Boy, really didn't turn out like Preboot Legion fans probably wanted. Quite the opposite - nothing came of Dirk and Regulus ultimately cost the team Gim.


Like with Magno, sometimes I wonder if the writers originally had something more planned and just aborted at the last minute. Unlike with Magno, sometimes I think that Dirk was brought in just so the writers could thumb their noses at the reader and show how not everything in this reality would follow the Preboot.

Re: Re-Reading the Postboot Legion!
Invisible Brainiac #811547 06/15/14 01:52 AM
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Just a bump up to say that I will hopefully be able to continue with the reviews soon. In the meantime, I will be going back and adding links to the covers and information (writer, penciller etc.) of each issue that has already been reviewed.

Last edited by Invisible Brainiac; 06/15/14 02:15 AM.
Re: Re-Reading the Postboot Legion!
Invisible Brainiac #811550 06/15/14 03:27 AM
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Legionnaires 29
Rising Sun

Issue information

Note: Brainiac 5 makes a three-panel appearance with no dialogue in Guy Gardner Warrior 29 during the events of this story. It's time travel, it's complicated.

Summary:

This issue picks up almost immediately from last issue. Doctor Regulus has kidnapped Dirk Morgna, son of wealthy businessman Derek Morgna - who is a close friend of President Chu. Saturn Girl, Spark, XS and Leviathan are sent to save Dirk.

Dr. Regulus is injecting Dirk with radioactive gold to see if he will gain solar powers; he also intends to ransom Dirk for a large sum of money. Despite the Legionnaires' best efforts, Dirk is caught in an explosion which does indeed turn him into a walking sun - he's too bright and hot for anyone to interact with.

We see some Legionnaires and allies dealing with the fallout of the White Triangle Saga, including the revelation that Brainiac 5 has apparently invented time travel (proven by his materializing in his lab with a glass of beer from Guy Gardner's Warriors bar in the 20th century!) ... and Saturn Girl sees Valor again!

Thoughts:

Old and new collide in this issue. Dirk Morgna still gets the ability to radiate intense light and heat because of Dr. Regulus, but this time Dirk's powers are more of a bane than a boon. He's so bright that nobody can look at him directly. I don't have an immediate problem with it, as it may be interesting to have a reluctant hero on the team (if Dirk does join). But his origin story does leave something to be desired. I can't quite put a finger on it, but it just doesn't seem to make sense.

Regulus wanted to use Dirk as a guinea pig. Yet his first comment is, "Still alive? Interesting." This seems to have been before he injected any of the radioactive gold into Dirk. So did he just think of the experiment on a whim? He should have been more careful if that had been his plan all along.

Regulus' recollection of the original accident which got him fired (being distracted by Dirk's delivery) is probably biased. Still, it just seems odd that he didn't seal his lab better if his experiment was so critical!

The Legion's battle against Regulus is a bit weird and full of contrivances, too. After their great coordination and strategy during the White Triangle war I was honestly expecting better. They did capture Regulus and shatter his armor, but forget his gloves - which allows him to trigger the explosion that ultimately gives Dirk his powers. XS is fast enough to save her three teammates, but can't get to either Regulus or Dirk in time. Saturn Girl now conveniently has trouble shutting down other minds - yet in the White Triangle war she was able to summon four insane Daxamites from around the globe. And the Legionnaires are unaware of Dirk's presence until Imra telepathically eavesdrops on Regulus... yet the Science Police and Derek Morgna knew that from the start of this issue!

Despite all that, I did enjoy their final "plan", with Leviathan, XS, Spark and Saturn Girl all working together and using their unique powers to make it work. This despite the minor snags and disagreements (Gim calling Imra out for taking charge, XS feeling the need to defend Cos in front of Imra). THAT is the kind of teamwork I expect.

Cos' characterization continues to be erratic, with him asking Ultra Boy to leave Legion HQ because he's not a Legionnaire. Triad even comments that he's in Chu's pocket... yet Cos sidesteps Chu's request for him to go and to bring the team. And readers may have missed the very interesting background art where an Omnicom levitates out of Chu's files while Cos is speaking with her. Invisible Kid? And... did Cos miss that too, or did he notice it? It looks like Cos may be playing the President too!

The composition of the mission team may also point to Cos trying to wrest control from Chu. Only four Legionnaires go; even Cosmic Boy and Triad, who were both in Legion HQ, don't go. Did Cos make a call and say Triad was too weak again? Yet Cos went out of his way to look for Brainy for this mission, so how come he didn't go himself? Saturn Girl even comments that Cos couldn't be bothered to come. Looks like the President isn't his top priority after all.

Other subplots:

Live Wire finally leaves to look for Mekt. He and Ayla sort of make peace too, finally. They are brother and sister, after all.

Is Brainy's invention of time travel a way to save Andromeda? (also funny how Brainy returns from his trip - to the opening of Guy Gardner's bar, Warriors, in the 20th century with a mug of beer, takes a sip... then promptly spits it out in disgust. Note, Brainy also appears in Guy Gardner: Warrior issue 29, but he's only there for 3 panels and says nothing, so no point in reviewing)

Jan Arrah returns to Trom, and we see that their belief (that death is a passage to a higher state) is helping him cope with his planet's destruction. He takes it upon himself to transmute every single corpse into a crystal monument to help it reach said higher state. It's a nice page that helps give some closure to Trom.

I actually enjoyed this issue more for the subplots (the intrigues that Cos appears to be getting into, the time travel revelation, and the glimpse of Valor) than for the main plot. However, none of the developments in these subplots are particularly crucial to their overall resolution.

The most important developments are the introductions of Dirk Morgna and Doctor Regulus. However, my enjoyment is lessened even more by my knowledge that Dirk won't actually get to be a Legionnaire in this era; for that matter, nothing much will be done with him. Oh well. It was a pleasant issue, but fails to really accomplish anything concrete.

Last edited by Invisible Brainiac; 08/22/18 04:34 AM.
Re: Re-Reading the Postboot Legion!
Invisible Brainiac #811578 06/15/14 09:51 AM
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Legion of Super-Heroes 73
End of the Road


Issue information

Summary:

Live Wire's search for missing brother Mekt turns out poorly. He's mistaken for Mekt and arrested on planet Bisbe. Mekt breaks him out and brings him back to Korbal, where Mekt reveals his twisted plan... to kill everybody and everything else that has lightning powers, including Live Wire and Spark!

Will Spark reach Live Wire in time?

And the Valor subplot continues as he makes yet another appearance - in Legion HQ!

Thoughts:

The missing Mekt subplot is finally touched on after more than a year of "searching", and this issue sets it up well. Mekt frees Garth not out of any sense of family, but because he's eager to preserve his uniqueness. True to his basic goodness, Garth tries to stop Mekt from killing anyone else. Throughout the issue though, you can tell that Garth still hopes Mekt will come to his senses and return home. Sadly, that doesn't seem likely. Unlike Garth, Mekt really revels in his powers. It's also pretty clear that Garth is just using the lightning powers to excuse Mekt's bad behavior; boy is he in for a rude awakening. The conflict between Garth and Mekt, and even Garth's internal conflict, is dealt with really well here.

At first I did feel that the whole mistaken identity thing was silly (how far away can Bisbe be that news of the Legion hasn't reached them yet?) but the latter part of the issue fixed it. Shvaughn Erin was able to check Garth's ID scans, and the poor cop on Bisbe figured it out too. It was just a matter of time.

Subplot time. Triad's absence last issue (but not Cos') is touched upon as Cos confronts her for her absence. He also notes the absences of Lyle and Cham (but not Vi); why would he expect all three to be together? Hmm. So did Cos not notice the levitating Omnicom in Chu's office?

And Valor makes a third appearance, though this time he's a lot more visible (unlike the vague colors in L* Annual 2 and L*29 - though this could be artistic license more than anything else). Finally! For Preboot fans this must have been torture; while new fans are just now understanding just how important this Valor is.
Imra also finally explains that he's a holy figure on Cargg, which adds a whole new dimension to Lar Gand.

Re: Re-Reading the Postboot Legion!
Invisible Brainiac #811580 06/15/14 10:15 AM
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Legionnaires 30
Struck by Lightning


Issue information

Summary:

Live Wire continues trying to talk Mekt into stopping his rampage, despite Mekt making it clear he wants to kill Garth and Ayla too. Garth is finally forced to fight Mekt physically. Spark shows up just in time to save Garth, and together they finally defeat the more powerful Mekt - though not without Garth losing an arm first.

The Legion also finally makes contact with Valor long enough to understand what happened to him. Just like in the Preboot, poor Lar Gand has been trapped for a thousand years! And Brainy's lead serum can make it safe for him to go out... if only they can reach him. To do so, six Legionnaires go back in time so they can ask Superboy for help!

Thoughts:
The cover is quite a big spoiler, and Preboot fans wouldn't be too surprised by Garth's missing arm. It's a beautifully done cover too, very striking.

First page - I just find it odd that we have two lightning beasts grazing calmly even as 5 others lie dead around them.

It was a good move making Mekt so formidable in terms of his skill with a weapon, and also in terms of his power. With all the electricity he's absorbed, he presented a credible threat to Live Wire and Spark. The battle was well-done; it's difficult to make a battle between three identically-powered characters interesting, but the writers did it through intelligent use of powers (such as Spark and Mekt using their electricity on the rocks), the broiling family conflict (Mekt and Ayla finally make Garth understand that it's not the electricity that has turned Mekt nuts), and the urgency of dealing with the loss of Garth's arm.

Spark proves to once again be a very competent Legionnaire; she intelligently goes for the blaster once Garth's arm is lost and doesn't hesitate to shoot Mekt in the leg. She also figures out why Garth was using the lightning as a bogeyman, and helps him realize that Mekt was a bad apple all along. The last, joint electrical blast by Garth and Ayla makes it seem that Garth has finally let go of his fears and is ready to embrace the lightning.

As for Mekt, he makes it clear that he was never bothered by his solo status in the least. Who knows, really, if he became nuts because he was a solo, or if his being solo had nothing to do with it.

It's also good that the Valor subplot is now moving to the forefront. Finally! The Legion could really use someone as powerful as Mon-El, and it'll be interesting to see the then-current Superboy interact with the team.

Re: Re-Reading the Postboot Legion!
Invisible Brainiac #811581 06/15/14 10:19 AM
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Legionnaires #29 never impressed me on my first read of it years ago. I had already read Sun Boy's Adventure era origin, so this tale felt like "nothing new."

Like Ibby says, it's nice when the four Legionnaires fighting Regulus are able to get their act together and coordinate an impressive defeat. Poor Regulus gets melted into his armor and then blinded as the authorities arrive. One would think this would be the last time we see of him for awhile, but he's back before the year is out.

Despite how much of a pain Cos is in this issue, it's nice to see the little hints like Lyle's subterfuge start to show that maybe everything isn't quite what it seems. Still, the subplot that was most interesting for me is the shadowy figure watching Jan on Trom. I know how that plays out, but I found that more intriguing on my first read than Dirk's cliffhanger.

Speaking of Dirk's cliffhanger, I'm surprised this is the last we see of him for awhile. Given the timeline, I can't help but wonder if they were trying to get him in place to become a Legionnaire by LSH #80 with the others. When they changed their minds, is that why the immediate next arc involves wrapping up Dirk and Regulus' story?

Did they decide that Sandy Inferno would be the more interesting of the two? As soon as Dirk was given the boot, the next issue Inferno quits the Workforce to pal with the team. Yet when Stuart Immonen was working on Final Night a mere two months later, he recalls that Inferno's name was on a list of people who could be killed (this ultimately led to him doing a mini-series for her). So that fact undermines the idea that the Toms wanted to put all their eggs in one basket with Sandy. Was editorial not a fan that she was replacing Dirk and wanted her gone? Did the writers lose interest in her so quickly?

I thought the scene with Garth and Ayla was cute. They love each other dearly but feel the need to mask their remorse and guilt respectively that only one of them gets to be a Legionnaire. Now that they're getting used to that, duty keeps them separate on the quest to find their missing brother. I have a hunch that even if Ayla didn't get the mission call, she wouldn't have wanted to go find Mekt. Sure, she looked pleased he asked - but I think she was more pleased that he would want her company over what the mission was. Garth always did seem to be closer to Mekt of the two siblings. Ayla, always the more practical, seems in this reality to especially be keen to the fact that something is off with Mekt. That concept plays a huge part of Legion Worlds #2.

My favorite part of this issue is probably Brainy's four panel distaste for root beer.

Re: Re-Reading the Postboot Legion!
Future #811594 06/15/14 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Future
Still, the subplot that was most interesting for me is the shadowy figure watching Jan on Trom. I know how that plays out, but I found that more intriguing on my first read than Dirk's cliffhanger.


Good catch, Future. I totally missed that until you pointed it out. I agree, it certainly was more interesting than Dirk's plotline; it was pretty much closed when he defeated Regulus this issue, uncontrollable powers notwithstanding.

Re Dirk vs. Sandy, the fact that Sandy has killed at least twice before she ditched the Workforce already made her a very hard sell on a team with a strict no-killing rule. The Postboot changed many things but I think fans would have been up in arms if that rule went out the window.

Re Garth and Ayla, good observation (which is confirmed in LSH 73 and L* 30!).

Re: Re-Reading the Postboot Legion!
Invisible Brainiac #811597 06/15/14 10:54 AM
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By the way, the next issue the Legion appears in is Superboy 21. I don't have that issue, so I'll jump right to LSH 74. But if anyone does have Superboy 21 and wants to review, please go ahead!

Re: Re-Reading the Postboot Legion!
Invisible Brainiac #811605 06/15/14 01:36 PM
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I haven't been posting on this thread, but I want you all to know how much I'm enjoying reading it. Unfortunately my copies of all these issues are in a box underneath five other boxes, so I can't really get to the books themselves. Keep it up!


First comic books ever bought: A DC four-for-47-cents grab bag that included Adventure #331. The rest is history.
Re: Re-Reading the Postboot Legion!
Invisible Brainiac #811627 06/15/14 05:01 PM
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Something else else else I just noticed in a later issue is Cos furious as to why Lyle, Cham, and Lu didn't respond to the team mission for Dirk. Lyle we know was pre-occupied. Cham was nowhere to be seen (or so we think). Lu was just goofing off with Jo in the rec room. Was Cham really Jo in disguise for some reason, to irk Cos or test his new behavior? Nothing really comes of Cham's absence, to my knowledge, and we really don't have any leads. Cos' accusation never gets an answer from Lu before ... well, I'll touch on that later!

I think Sandy having killed BEFORE she was a Legionnaire actually sounds like a neat selling point. Could someone come back from that and embrace the Legion's ideals, or would she eventually show she wasn't Legion material? Or would the Legion simply want to jail her rather than consider membership. Having her stuck in the far past with them really side-steps the issue and is probably the closest she could have gotten to becoming an official Legionnaire anyway.

I can dig up Superboy #21, Ibby. I'll get to it after I post my thoughts on the other two.

Re: Re-Reading the Postboot Legion!
Invisible Brainiac #811629 06/15/14 05:25 PM
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Legion of Super-Heroes #73

At long last we've found Mekt, and I'm of mixed minds about the whole thing. Garth has spent so much time and familial turmoil to find his brother, let alone all the credits which are meticulously summarized for us in this issue. So I don't know whether to feel ripped off or not that it's Mekt who finally finds Garth ... and in a jail cell to boot! Did Mekt know where Garth was the whole time? Or was it just luck of still being in the area, since clearly the locals had just encountered Mekt?

Love the officer who sided with Garth, though I feel his death was written too early. Garth would have gone with Mekt anyway, even without killing the officer. I think this officer's death would have worked better if he had found the Ranzz siblings in Legionnaires #30 and THEN Mekt killed him, cementing for Garth that his brother wasn't salvageable. On a re-read I am glad that this scene reads more like Garth was kidnapped or had no time to really process anything - my memory had him just happily riding along.

Did anyone notice the guards detaining Garth are wearing "On the Run" Wildfire/NRG's armor, minus the helmet? Fun fact and a great nod from Moder. We see a member of Antennae Lad's race as an officer. I also liked Garth's tassled hair this issue, likely indicating his tireless search the last few days. I also think Garth wearing a jacket over his uniform is rather cute.

I wonder if Mekt's "killing lightning beasts for their power" plot should have actually been something recurring he did from time to time, to help explain his mental degradation? It's not like he doesn't know where Korbal is as the one who flew the cruiser there in the origin story anyway. I find it silly he just now decided to go there to amp up. Also silly that blasts from half a dozen lightning beasts just feed him but Garth and Ayla's "sibling lightning power attack of love (patent pending)" next issue takes Mekt out and gives him his trademark white hair. Oh well! Comics!

Re: Re-Reading the Postboot Legion!
Invisible Brainiac #811633 06/15/14 05:42 PM
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Legionnaires #30

I've always loved this cover. The vivid, though not blinding, yellow contrasted nicely against Garth's suit suit. It popped off the rack for me two decades ago and it pops on my computer screen now. I like that the white background of the barcode on the cover is translucent here.

I mentioned artistic continuity last post, which is bound to miss a thing or two when two artists are working on the same broader story simultaneously. Jeepers if it isn't jarring that LSH ended with Mekt being charged by lightning beasts and this issue opens with them absently grazing amongst the corpes of their beast brethren, ignoring Mekt.

Garth definitely reads like a boy here and a whiny one at that as his rose-colored view of his brother is at last destroyed. It's hitting Garth just how stupid he was to go with Mekt, but really he's also realizing how stupid he was to ever believe in his brother or want to find him. I'm grateful Ayla comes in as the voice of reason, that Mekt was like this even when they grew up.

I absolutely LOVE when "Mama Bear" Ayla comes out. We don't get to see it too often, but she is definitely fiercely loyal to her brother and her lover(s) over the years. That's true across most continuities. She's especially sensitive when they betray her trust but also horribly aggressive when they're threatened. I love that Ayla is willing to damn the Legion code if she has to in protecting Garth and the world from Mekt, though she uses her smarts to avoid having to cross that line.

The subplot of finally getting to speak with Valor and taking the time platform to go back and get him out is straight forward enough. It's nice that plot is finally getting some fast momentum and, even more exciting, we're getting this Legion to time travel for the first time! Definitely a big component of the team's lore usually and an act they'll become more familiar with as the years roll on. I enjoy that no one really questions Brainy having a time platform, though clearly this is fall-out from wanting to save Andromeda.

Re: Re-Reading the Postboot Legion! (LSH 73 and L*30)
Invisible Brainiac #811640 06/15/14 06:15 PM
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Superboy #17 and Superboy #18
Neon! / Battle of the Century!


Issue Information / Issue Information

Summary:

Superboy has an epic adventure against a guy wearing a suit laced with neon lights called ... Neon. What matters most for Legion fans is the issue's last page!

Superboy's manager, Rex Leech, nervously enters a boxing ring after hours for a shady business deal. Mr. Gambino, the ring owner, says Rex owes him a lot of money and now knows how Rex can repay. He wants Rex to get Superboy to a certain place at a certain time and then they're even! This is so Gambino's "boy," a young man with blue eyes, familiar black hair, and an impressive musculature, can take care of Superboy.

Next issue! Superboy is retrieved by friends Krypto and Dubbilex, trying to prove a point that Superboy needs to guard his thoughts better. They're joined by Rex, who reveals he just had a nightmare where Superboy was beaten in a bloody battle ... but that could never happen, right?

Elsewhere, at the boxing ring, Gambino's boy is obliterating a practice robot with his flight and heat vision. He has amnesia and wishes he could remember his own name. Mr. Gamboli promises to get the boy the best help money can buy ... as long as he promises to become his "Champion" and defeat Superboy.

At school, Superboy and his friends find a note in his locker where his sweetheart, Tana Moon, wants to meet him for lunch. Superboy rushes off, but is ambushed by this "Champion." The two super-powered youths duke it out, causing vast property damage across Hawaii and playing right into Mr. Gamboli's ploy to make money off the biggest staged fight in history. Suddenly, the fight is broken up ... the impressive Knockout has arrived!


Thoughts:

While I appreciate the nod to past history in that Lar Gand's story must first begin with some amnesiac time in the 20th century spent with Superboy, fighting each other like all heroes did in the early 90s probably isn't what the fans were asking for. There's also no nod or reference here to who Lar really is, so if anyone didn't read the REBELS series (which is most people) they'd be out of luck.

Not much to say here about these two issues. Tom Grummet's art is very distinct. I actually think this was his heydey or the era most people think of his art style. I find his pencils tight here, maybe because of the inker. This issue is really just set-up to get Valor and Superboy to scrap a bit to show Valor's equivalent, impressive abilities. Now it's time to get into who exactly this "Champion" really is.

Last edited by Future; 06/15/14 06:16 PM.
Re: Re-Reading the Postboot Legion! (LSH 73 and L*30)
Invisible Brainiac #811648 06/15/14 06:38 PM
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Superboy #19
T-K-O!


Issue Information

Summary:

Knockout has butt into the fight between "Champion" and Superboy. She takes down "Champion" and Superboy interjects - he thinks the boy may be sick and wants Knockout to scram so he can help him! Just then a mysterious, computerized voice interjects! It belongs to Babbage - a sentient, golden space-ship. Babbage reveals that they're fighting Lar Gand, alias Valor, who is from Daxam and dying of lead poisoning! Babbage had been looking for Lar and found him due to Mr. Gambino's broadcasts.

The military arrives to detain everyone. Knockout lashes out, which gives Superboy the distraction to push Valor into Babbage. Babbage wants to escape to Colu but Valor refuses to go anywhere until he's in his proper Valor costume. Even though he's, you know, dying. Oy. Babbage wants to take Valor to Colu, where they hope to find a lead poison antidote from Vril Dox. They attempt to take off but Knockout dismantles the ship, still wanting to fight Superboy. Superboy rescues Valor and they escape as Babbage explodes.

Mr. Gambino sees the explosion on screen. Assuming all three are dead, he gloats he gets to keep all the money! Then Knockout comes crashing down onto his ship to foil his plans.

Superboy meanwhile has raced to S.T.A.R.labs, bursting in with Valor. He wants to use the Phantom Zone projector they have to postpone Valor's death. They charge up the projector and Valor races inside while thanking Superboy. The projector powers down and Valor appears as a phantom, able to talk to everyone present but not touch them. Suddenly the phantom zone projector explodes! With it, Valor and his voice fade away. The scientists say it may take years to rebuild and repower the machine!

Knockout chases Mr. Gambino on his sinking ship. He tries to shoot her, so she takes an exposed power line and dips it into the water at their feet - killing him. As an Apokoliptian (I believe?), Knockout is unharmed.

On the beach at home with his friends, Superboy wonders whether he actually saved Valor or condemned him to hell.


Thoughts:

I've never read the 90s REBELS series so some part of me feels like this is truly our first "postboot" look at Lar Gand. It's a little awkward, so I guess luckily this really isn't. Is it REBELS? Is it parts of the close of the Valor series? It's all a bit confusing and I honestly don't love Lar enough to resolve it in my head.

Babbage seems pretty cool, calling out Valor in his own sardonic way for how idiotic it was to have to change clothes before their journey. Of course this doubles as A) getting Valor back into his classic costume for the Phantom Zone and B) stalling for enough time for Knockout to shake Superboy and the military to take out Babbage. Shame that he gets taken out without fanfare or mourning from anyone. He seemed nice enough!

I don't read a lot of this era of Superboy, but I feel like Knockout pops in and out like this a lot in this book just to skirmish and generally annoy Superboy. From this one adventure alone it's a little grating. Just hook up already, you kids.

For someone frequently depicted as not the brightest or strategically sound, Superboy does seem to have the Phantom Zone projector idea in his back pocket very easily to help Valor. At this point we all know where this story is going, so as a reader I'm suspending belief more than I normally prefer to so the tale can ride.

Two issues later, Valor's plot is touched on and pretty much resolved. Probably for the best. Doubt they want to be telling stories about an angsty Superboy, but it'd also be rude of him to just forget the guilt of what he had done to Valor.

Re: Re-Reading the Postboot Legion! (LSH 73 and L*30)
Invisible Brainiac #811650 06/15/14 06:57 PM
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Superboy #21
Making History - Future Tense, part 1 of 3


Issue Information

Summary:

As Superboy ironically races to history class, members of the Legion of Super-Heroes arrive in the 20th century. One is missing though - XS! Brainiac 5 insists they look for her later and find Superboy. They can always time travel again to save her, so he views it as a moot issue.

Superboy has returned from class and is distraught his artificial knowledge has now caught up to where they are in school. Now he'll have to *gasp* actually study. Just then, the Legion bursts in! The typical super-hero battle ensues, as the Legion can't get a telepathic earplug into Kon's ear to translate Interlac for him. Superboy realizes something is off and his telepathic roomie, Dubbilex, links them all together.

Learning the Legion has arrived to rescue Valor, Superboy takes them to S.T.A.R.labs and relates how he saved Lar. The blueprints from holding the projector together are still in Superboy's mind, so Saturn Girl links him and Brainy. Everyone is hopeful Brainy can use his smarts to rebuild the machine, but the materials are too obsolete. Brainy gets huffy and triggers a time jump back to the 30th century, taking Superboy with them!

Thoughts:

This may be the first time the Legion bursts into Superboy's home in the 20th century, but it certainly won't be the last time. In fact everything is feeling very deja vu about this. It probably doesn't help that Cos, Imra, Brainy, and Lu all return to Superboy's home at some point as those stranded in the Team 20 era.

I always hate when Saturn Girl's telepathy gets written as more incapable than it is. Here it's Dubbilex that gets to be the psi that links everyone together - Saturn Girl never seems to think to try it in the battle. I'd rather a line about her fear that she couldn't understand old English herself anyway or just have her knocked out for the sake of the plot.

Poor XS. While Brainy's argument is valid, they do give up on looking for her quick. Cosmic Boy is the most concerned by her missing status - something Jenni would be blushing about had she known.

Despite taking 22 pages to tell, the plot here is very straight-forward. If it wasn't for the subplots, arbitrary hero fight, and throwing in Superboy's roommates for fun ... the whole story could have been cut in half. Valor's origin is retold I suspect less for Superboy readers but more for Legion fans who are tuning in for the first time due to the team's guest appearance here.

Last edited by Future; 06/15/14 06:58 PM.
Re: Re-Reading the Postboot Legion! (LSH 73 and L*30)
the Hermit #811655 06/15/14 07:11 PM
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Wow, that was fast! Thanks for reviewing all those Legion-related Superboy issues, Future! I'll read through them in more detail later.

Originally Posted by the Hermit
I haven't been posting on this thread, but I want you all to know how much I'm enjoying reading it. Unfortunately my copies of all these issues are in a box underneath five other boxes, so I can't really get to the books themselves. Keep it up!


Thanks, the Hermit! Feel free to chime in any time, even if your copies are in storage I'm sure you'll have some great insights to contribute.

Re: Re-Reading the Postboot Legion! (LSH 73 and L*30)
Future #811672 06/15/14 10:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Future
Something else else else I just noticed in a later issue is Cos furious as to why Lyle, Cham, and Lu didn't respond to the team mission for Dirk. Lyle we know was pre-occupied. Cham was nowhere to be seen (or so we think). Lu was just goofing off with Jo in the rec room. Was Cham really Jo in disguise for some reason, to irk Cos or test his new behavior? Nothing really comes of Cham's absence, to my knowledge, and we really don't have any leads. Cos' accusation never gets an answer from Lu before ... well, I'll touch on that later!



It was weird when I first read it too - why does he ask Lu about Lyle and Cham too, but not Vi? Did Vi answer and was unavailable? Does he suspect Lu, Lyle and Cham are working together? Or is this just a smokescreen? For that matter, I don't think we ever found out where Lu was...

Originally Posted by Future

I think Sandy having killed BEFORE she was a Legionnaire actually sounds like a neat selling point. Could someone come back from that and embrace the Legion's ideals, or would she eventually show she wasn't Legion material? Or would the Legion simply want to jail her rather than consider membership. Having her stuck in the far past with them really side-steps the issue and is probably the closest she could have gotten to becoming an official Legionnaire anyway.


Well, maybe not jail - the deaths Sandy caused could arguably be self-defense (granted, it's a tough sell, but I don't think she actually murdered anyone in cold blood). I agree that she was unlikely to have ever been offered membership. The Team 20 Legionnaires explicitly invited Ferro; while Inferno wore a flight ring, but either was never invited or never accepted (I think she was never invited, myself). In LSH 88 when the Legionnaires voted on whether to admit Impulse or not, there were only 7 votes - Cos, Imra, Brainy, Spark, Gates, Tinya, Jo.

Originally Posted by Future
Legion of Super-Heroes #73

Love the officer who sided with Garth, though I feel his death was written too early. Garth would have gone with Mekt anyway, even without killing the officer. I think this officer's death would have worked better if he had found the Ranzz siblings in Legionnaires #30 and THEN Mekt killed him, cementing for Garth that his brother wasn't salvageable. On a re-read I am glad that this scene reads more like Garth was kidnapped or had no time to really process anything - my memory had him just happily riding along.


Yeah, the early death of that poor officer didn't quite have the emotional impact it could have had. I'm also glad the scenes made it clear that Garth was trying to stop Mekt from killing anyone else.

Originally Posted by Future
Legion of Super-Heroes #73

I wonder if Mekt's "killing lightning beasts for their power" plot should have actually been something recurring he did from time to time, to help explain his mental degradation? It's not like he doesn't know where Korbal is as the one who flew the cruiser there in the origin story anyway. I find it silly he just now decided to go there to amp up. Also silly that blasts from half a dozen lightning beasts just feed him but Garth and Ayla's "sibling lightning power attack of love (patent pending)" next issue takes Mekt out and gives him his trademark white hair. Oh well! Comics!


Originally Posted by Future
Legionnaires #30

Jeepers if it isn't jarring that LSH ended with Mekt being charged by lightning beasts and this issue opens with them absently grazing amongst the corpes of their beast brethren, ignoring Mekt.

I absolutely LOVE when "Mama Bear" Ayla comes out. We don't get to see it too often, but she is definitely fiercely loyal to her brother and her lover(s) over the years. That's true across most continuities. She's especially sensitive when they betray her trust but also horribly aggressive when they're threatened. I love that Ayla is willing to damn the Legion code if she has to in protecting Garth and the world from Mekt, though she uses her smarts to avoid having to cross that line.


I commented on the lightning beasts as well. Are those things deaf and blind? Didn't they see the half-dozen lightning beast corpses around them?

Another point on artistic continuity - last issue, Triad was in her workout clothes when they went to find Brainy. This issue, she's in her Legion garb.

I think on some level, Garth was relieved to have a "big brother" in Mekt. For one, maybe he found it a bit easier to look up to a male sibling; Ayla makes it clear that Garth always looked up to Mekt.

Agree on Mama Bear Ayla. I love how she is level-headed and the voice of reason without coming off holier-than-thou. And I like how Garth finally saw through Mekt and grew up.

Last edited by Invisible Brainiac; 06/15/14 11:28 PM.
Re: Re-Reading the Postboot Legion! (LSH 73 and L*30)
Future #811674 06/15/14 11:34 PM
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Thanks again for the Superboy reviews, Future. Doesn't look like I missed too many Legion-related moments; LSH 74 and L* 31 give a good enough summary of how Superboy projected Valor into the Phantom Zone.

One good and important point that wasn't explicitly stated in the Legion issues, is that the Phantom Zone projector exploded; this casts Superboy in a much better light. Reading LSH 74 and L* 31 only, I got the impression that Valor was projected into the zone and then Superboy totally forgot about him!

Obligatory hero fights, oh well. I don't think that trend will end any time soon. But having Valor be the aggressor in this instance is a lot better IMO than in the Preboot, where Mon-El ended up exposed to lead because of Superboy's jealousy and suspicion.

Re: Re-Reading the Postboot Legion! (LSH 73 and L*30)
Invisible Brainiac #811884 06/17/14 04:08 PM
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There wasn't really a lot of Legion in those Superboy issues if you remove Valor's presence. As stated earlier, I was never a fan of his growing up so I always skipped the stories that largely involved him. I never read a lot of these Superboy issues until the digital age a few years ago, nor the Valor series aside from the End of an Era issues.

Superboy's own book definitely paints him far more sympathetic about his part in Lar's imprisonment than the Legion issues do. In fact, Superboy spends so much time in his cocky and bull-headed persona only in the Legion issues that I'm surprised at the level of insight and emotion he had in his own book. There's a definite reason I wasn't a Kon fan until the Johns issues of Teen Titans.

What a busy three months this was for oldschool Legion fans! Jo, Jan, Dirk, Lar, and a Superboy all mixing with the team.

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