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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Vol. 9
Lard Lad #836687 01/24/15 11:52 PM
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Well, if the goal is to shut down a major terrorist organization and you have the means to reimburse your neighbors (while making sure none of them actually get hurt) . . . wink

As I mentioned in my initial post, the Legionnaires do gamble a lot with people's lives (not to mention property, emotional well-being and feelings of security), so, in that respect, the story doesn't hold up so well.

To sum up, I think the scheme is quite brilliant if one doesn't consider the broader ramifications (which Shooter apparently didn't).


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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Vol. 9
Legion Tracker #836690 01/25/15 12:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Legion Tracker
Originally Posted by He Who Wanders

--The opening psychedelic scene is well designed, but it has absolutely nothing to do with the rest of the story. Like Lardy (I think), I was primed to expect it to be a contributor to the Legion's aberrant behavior, but this doesn't happen. It's not the first Legion story to begin with a non sequitur, and it's well done for what it is, but I found it distracting.


That scene does lead the reader (as noted by HWW and Paladin) to falsely assume the drugs were the reason for the Legionnaires' change of behavior. It was intended as a red herring, and it works.


That moment with Brainy could provide an in-story explanation of the starting point for his erratic behavior throughout the next decade of stories.

Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Vol. 9
Lard Lad #836749 01/25/15 03:04 PM
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Who knows what acid flashbacks would do to a Coluan? Probably explains the Supergirl robot. smile


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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Vol. 9
Lard Lad #836752 01/25/15 04:10 PM
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Adventure #377
Luke Cage & Danny Rand journey to the 30th...ah, wrong Heroes for Hire. The splash page adds nothing that couldn't have been on the cover.

I've always liked the first sighting of Modulus. Seemingly something that controlled the entire planet. I wonder if Moore styled Mogo the planetary Green Lantern after this and Ego.
No one bats an eyelid that the UP conducts experiments in mind control drugs. Whatever could they want them fo...oh, where was I?

Was Brainy's exposure, where he was "losing my mind" the real start of his mental breakdown? What happens when you expand a mind like that? Superboy's invulnerability makes him forever square.

The Science Police's Interrogator is chilling. The thought police have truly arrived. The panel where it's just Imra standing behind the device has been dropped from my copy.

The captured crook leads the Legion directly to Modo. But how can they get there? It has Kryptonite (like everywhere else in what must have been some explosion). It has hostages so Bomb Boy is not called up for membership once again.

With the Legion seemingly taking a back seat to fighting the crooks from Modulus, it's interesting to note that Karate Kid is considered the least likely to do nothing, along side Superboy. Pretty much shows where KK was in the writer's estimation. Although KK forgot to use a flight ring to get away from a mob a few pages later.

Ah, Leland McCauley. Seemingly forced out of his money before Superboy would save him. A long held grudge against the Legion starts here. Still the panel of Superboy saving the cruiser just above the ocean is a very nice one.

No pressure on the Legion. Just uphold law, order, freedom and justice to the death for no reward. Meanwhile McCauley rakes in cash. Even in the future all crime needs is the thought that the perpetrator can get away with it,. In this case to Modo. It would seem that every civilisation still needs a monetary system in the future too. It looks as though the Legion were the only ones ever working for nothing. With all that money around for everyone else, why should the youngsters risk so much for nothing?

Interesting to see how far Superboy would take Brainy's plan. Clark really revelled in his role pretending to be a selfish villain. Reminds me of another Superboy. Fortunately, Jeckie and Val show a more regretful edge to the Legion's fall from grace. Brainy even calls it an operation, just in case there's any doubt that the Legion have something in store for Modo.

I've no idea how the crooks from Modo knew where the Legion stashed their earnings, but fnd it they do...and attack. A small shuttle is scanned departing the ship for Tatooine Modo.

Chemical King is wheeled on for a few panels to implement Brainy's plan and it's all over for Modo and Modulus. I guess Jan wasn't around to go with Condo, and they had to instead make all those intricate money plans. The leader of Modo looks menacing, and possibly plugged into the planet.

In the last panel, Karate Kid realises he'll have to marry Jeckie if he wants to keep living the good life. A twist to their relationship?


"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Vol. 9
Lard Lad #836821 01/26/15 07:19 AM
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I like the theory you guys have of Brainy's mental problems in the 70's being partially caused by super-acid flashbacks!

The Infinite Man even looks like he's an acid trip, which is surely why Brainy used him in Levitz run even later!

Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Vol. 9
Lard Lad #836894 01/26/15 05:07 PM
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I'm reminded of a Legion v Universo story (Baxter I guess) where Brainy freaks out because his mind has been tampered with. So, with something truly mind changing as per this issue...


"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Vol. 9
Lard Lad #836903 01/26/15 06:31 PM
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Adventure #378

Adv. #378 has been one of my favorite Legion stories since I first actively began exploring LSH history; I can remember being mesmerized when I read it at age 13 or whatever--so much so that on the original read I actually finished and reread it again! Those feelings still stand front and center in my brain, so there's a good chance I'll overlook any bad qualities and focus on just how awesome this issue is.

First, even though he's barely in the issue, I love the idea of Alek Korlo, the poisoner. Someone the Legion doesn't see coming, who is out there plotting their demise, and is clever enough and patient enough, to do it. Now THAT is scary! Especially since any one of us can hold that very same fear for ourselves. When you get in your car tonight or walk home from work, just remember that your Alek Korlo is probably watching. evil

But to get to the heart of why I love it, it comes down to two things: an incredibly emotional and personal issue for the five Legionnaires (complete with extreme Silver Age melodrama) and a fantastic pacing / structure to the issue. On the latter, it is very much a straight forward approach, with an opening and then each of the five getting a scene which repeats over and over, and then an end. But it's effective and it builds suspense. The ending itself is fantastic, with the Legionnaires actually dying (!) and Brainy having a last minute idea, then running to find it, and then unable to do it. Korlo then emerges from the shadows, still a mystery, very much in the vein of Hitchcock or Wait Until Dark or so many other shadowy, scary scenes from 60's cinema. AND THEN (!) -- time stops, and things go in a totally different direction! I've read the next part many times and I'm still chomping at the bit to follow up on this ending! All in all, this is a job well done.

Meanwhile, the other element that I like is the personal side of things, which is a great treat to see. I love how we see Superboy casually walk down the street of Smallville and shake people's hands...people who probably have been admiring him for years now. I love Luornu and her parents, making her even more of the girl next door. I love Brainy's endless determination to find a solution.

I also love the Myron Marks scene, and the character has always stuck out to me as unforgettable. When Lash, Eryk, Teeds and others starting really delving into LSH history for threads and in-jokes, and Myron Marks was a part of that, I thought it was great. I'd have loved to see him again, one more time--after Val had died and Sensor Girl was revealed. Perhaps Jeckie was finally getting over Val's death but couldn't escape the guilt that comes with that; perhaps Myron had a few more words for her again. (Or perhaps the reverse, and this time she helps him?).

And of course, the Karate Kid sequence here is what made the young me say "dammit, Karate Kid is my favorite!" It's clear to me now how Shooter has played favorites with Val, and how this just puts it over the top. But as a young boy, Val was the epitome of a warrior and a hero, and the idea of not waiting for death but dying in battle was like the ultimate masculine ideal. And then he goes and beats them but doesn't actually die, and he's even more of the man. I still feel that way now, even when I can see all the holes in that logic. That rugged bravado is just appealing.

I've always loved this issue, and this reread only reconfirmed it.

Last edited by Cobalt Kid; 01/26/15 06:32 PM.
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Vol. 9
Lard Lad #836925 01/26/15 09:40 PM
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When I saw you'd read this one, I went ahead and read it, too, and just finished it. It was definitely another hidden gem among Shooter's run and easily tops my previous crowning of 377 in its short-lived run as the best of the post-Swan era.

This is in spite of this issue being pretty much the most damning evidence yet in the Mary Sue trial of Karate Kid. If there was any doubt to this point, it's pretty apparent that val was Shooter's Mary Sue character. But you know what? Who can blame him? If I were a teenager writing super-hero comics, I'm pretty sure I would have Mary Sue'd myself into the adventures I wrote! And the scene is pretty damned clever as the Five help to defeat themselves by assuming KK was merely the bait in a larger Legion trap. I think if all Mary Sues were as cleverly and excitedly done as Shooter did Val, then we'd all be wearing Terry Long shirts and getting perms! lol

Thanks for the spoiler, btw, as to the poisoner's identity! Guess I should have read 379 as well when I realized it was a 2-parter before reading your review! tongue I'm glad, though, that it wasn't Myron Marks, as the story seems to set up with his apparent random naming and late-issue appearance. I'm delighted that he's what he appears to be. It'll be interesting to learn more about the poisoner next issue, though.

The simple coolness of this issue is yet another reminder of how poorly I remember these stories from when I originally read them in the '90s when I purchased the Archives. I think I approached them with the wrong mindset and tended to pay more attention to the "bigger", more "significant" and "milestone" type stories.

Shooter particularly really wrote a ton of terrific Legion stories, far beyond the ones that always get mentioned on the "best of" lists. I think the work he did deepening the Legionnaires' characters really helped make the eventual revival possible as much or more than any other factor.

I loved all the personal touches with the "doomed" Legionnaires that Cobie mentions. Also, I liked the moments with Luornu and her self-doubt. Though some may criticize this as weakening and cheapening her as a "girl" character, it just strikes me as being incredibly real. Having doubts about her worth to a team spilling over with power is something that everyone can relate to in some way in their own real life contexts. A moment like this and her big scene during the Mordu story may feel like cheap shots, but I just adore them--especially knowing that she's NOT weak at all where in counts. It just helps make me adore the character, truly.

It strikes me again, however, that the story would have worked better without Superboy being among the poisoned. (I like that the ramifications to the time stream/history are finally mentioned by Brainy, though, for once. I've criticized other stories for ignoring this.) You know he grows up to be Superman, so the suspense is lessened...well, you know, unless he's actually from a pocket dimension.... wink I also think Superboy would not have returned to the 30th century and would have spent all of his last moments in Smallville. This is especially so because none of them knew brainy was working on a cure. But I liked his choice to perform heroic acts 'til the end. That's definitely something he'd do, though I think more likely in his own time.

I was actually surprised to turn the third-to-last page and see the story was continued! When Brainy said "Miracle Machine", I totally expected the eye-rolling deus ex machina to save the day, Myron Marks revealed as the poisoner and some kind of one-panel laugh a la Star Trek. I was very pleasantly surprised! nod


Still "Lardy" to my friends!
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Vol. 9
Lard Lad #836983 01/27/15 04:23 PM
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Sorry for the spoiler, Lardy. I sometimes forget that it's not common knowledge how every story ends. I wish I could say you'll love what we learn about the poisoner, but...well, we'll all see soon enough.

I have to say, I never once considered Myron Marks as the poisoner. Now that you say it, it actually makes a lot of sense from a narrative perspective that he would be revealed as such. I still love his walk on role, as I pointed out above. But I'm kind of kicking myself for not considering that!

I've also spent many periods trapped in the mode of overlooking the small, well-told stories in my rush to look at the ones that were milestones or had more far reaching effects. In fact, I'd say the last 5-10 years of all of my comic book reading has been an attempt to rectify that, and really give credit to stories like this one. Especially in light of the industry that now tries so hard to make every story matter more than anything else, and therefore almost always dooms it to actually not matter much at all anymore. This is all a typically long winded way of coming to my point: I really love when we do these rereads, on both LSH and other things.

And great comments on Luornu, which really explain her appeal. Agree totally.

Ps - I will definitely checking out your comments in the ASM thread when I can dedicate some real time to them, as that is the single period in all of comics history I love most. And I also finally discovered your Its a Wonderful Life thread after honestly just missing its existence for weeks! I will eventually respond there too. Today I'm snowed in with the kids...

Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Vol. 9
Cobalt Kid #837006 01/27/15 08:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Cobalt Kid
Sorry for the spoiler, Lardy. I sometimes forget that it's not common knowledge how every story ends. I wish I could say you'll love what we learn about the poisoner, but...well, we'll all see soon enough.


I know watcha mean. I read 379 shortly after making the above post because I really wanted to see how it turned out--plus I wanted to avoid more spoilers because i realized that spoilers in reviews of part 1 for events to come in part 2 aren't really all that uncommon in these re-read threads. No big deal....especially considering the lack of any real pay-off on him in part 2.... shrug

Quote
I have to say, I never once considered Myron Marks as the poisoner. Now that you say it, it actually makes a lot of sense from a narrative perspective that he would be revealed as such. I still love his walk on role, as I pointed out above. But I'm kind of kicking myself for not considering that!


Honestly, with the poisoner's features shrouded as they were, I still can't help but wonder if Shooter had intended Myron to be the culprit but then changed his mind or something. Like you, I'm glad he wasn't! nod

Quote
I've also spent many periods trapped in the mode of overlooking the small, well-told stories in my rush to look at the ones that were milestones or had more far reaching effects. In fact, I'd say the last 5-10 years of all of my comic book reading has been an attempt to rectify that, and really give credit to stories like this one. Especially in light of the industry that now tries so hard to make every story matter more than anything else, and therefore almost always dooms it to actually not matter much at all anymore. This is all a typically long winded way of coming to my point: I really love when we do these rereads, on both LSH and other things.


Absolutely! I'm really kind of pissed at myself for overlooking these stories in the past but grateful to have LW and this project to rectify that!

Quote
Ps - I will definitely checking out your comments in the ASM thread when I can dedicate some real time to them, as that is the single period in all of comics history I love most. And I also finally discovered your Its a Wonderful Life thread after honestly just missing its existence for weeks! I will eventually respond there too. Today I'm snowed in with the kids...


Look forward to your comments on both! I'll just bet we'll have a huge back-and-forth over Spidey! The funny thing about the IaWL thread is I saw where you'd clicked on it via the LW "Who's Online" feature the very day I created it, so I guess you forgot about it. (Too much G&T? wink ) I mean, it's one of those topics that practically had "Cobie bait" written all over it! grin


Still "Lardy" to my friends!
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Vol. 9
Lard Lad #837111 01/28/15 10:28 PM
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Adventure Comics #378

It's the Quintet of Super-Heroes! The main heroes of the previous story return as the focus of this one as well. Here the high sympathy level for our dying heroes serves to wash away any lingering memories of them as mercenaries.

Overall, a good story as Cobie and Lardy have explicated so well.

In the Legion Outpost for this issue, a reader suggests that, now that readers have elected the Legion's leader (Ultra Boy) for the first time, it should become an annual tradition. The editors agree and open the polls for the next election.


"Everything about this is going to feel different." (Saturn Girl, Legion of Super-Heroes #1)
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Vol. 9
Legion Tracker #837114 01/28/15 10:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Legion Tracker

In the Legion Outpost for this issue, a reader suggests that, now that readers have elected the Legion's leader (Ultra Boy) for the first time, it should become an annual tradition. The editors agree and open the polls for the next election.


Sidetracking for a moment, so Ultra Boy was the first leader elected by the Legion? I always figured that Invisible Kid was the first. If Lyle was not, then how did he end up being leader. Was that totally Shooter's doing? Maybe Lyle was originally the character Shooter really wanted to focus on and so made him leader. But then eventually Lyle got dropped like a rock when Shooter decided to go all-Val all the time.

But seriously anybody know how Lyle of all Legionnaires ended up as leader? Just curious since he was one of my favorites from the Adventure era.

Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Vol. 9
Lard Lad #837115 01/28/15 11:14 PM
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Sorry. I've fallen behind on this again. Adv. 376 through 380 were a low point in Legion history imho, with the exception of #379 which I thought was pretty good. Adv. 377's letters:

Attached Images 377.jpg
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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Vol. 9
Lard Lad #837116 01/28/15 11:17 PM
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378

Attached Images 378.jpg

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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Vol. 9
Lard Lad #837117 01/28/15 11:22 PM
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RE Invisible Kid as leader, this is from Adv. 346:


Attached Images ADV346a.jpg

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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Vol. 9
Lard Lad #837338 01/31/15 01:33 PM
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Adventure 378

The cover shows that even nearing death, Superboy is still a super show off. Use some future-paper if your finger is hurt!

A robed figure claims the Legionnaires fate on the splash page. The Time Trapper must be livid it's not him. "Oh, anyone can have a green robe and a scythe. >sob<" No doubt the Trapper gets his revenge by replacing this version of death with a hip Gaiman version for the reprints.

Jeckie and Val hold hands on the splash, while Lu is once again on the wrong side of Kal. She just can't get a break.
It's Brainy's birthday, and they celebrate by getting him to do things for them, like play the Lumna-organ. Sure, Brainy palys it down by pretending to like it as a gift. But it's another step in his decline.

Mockers of the lumna-organ may not be aware of Jean Michel Jarre being inspired to create his laser organs, following a Saturn Girl trip to the 1980s.

Ah, Kono juice! Who would have thought the straight laced Coluans were actually just focused looking to avoid falling down drunk. A toast to Coluan elephant hunting! Ivory cups? Could Colu be a cautionary tale of a civilisation killing every other creature, turning their world into a cold selfish place?

It's a little disturbing that in this futuristic society, Brainy knows to check for poison. It's little things like this, Interrogating thought reading machines and mind altering research institutes that gives the Legion a much darker edge in Adventure.

How to spend your last hours? Why, drawing diagrams to explain simple concepts to your colleagues!

Shooter tipped his hand by having Brainy make such a big deal of poisoning. This resulted in having a bloated explanation of why Superboy didn't spot it. The simpler, unexpected poisoning would have been a better option. Besides Superboy's vision should have been alerted to the presence of things in the drink he couldn't see through.
The team accept that there's no cure for Rakurga poison. Bear in mind it's the deadliest poison in the universe, and our antagonist managed to lace it with lead lined, kryptonite filled capsules (get yours from your local candy store today!)

"I'd like us to face death together, as we have so many times in the past!" says Brainy. Of the five, later interpretations would make him the least likely character to say these touching words.

Perhaps it's an good example of the true depth of his feelings (see also Lyle, Kara and Laurel) and how he views his colleagues. Perhaps it's simply because we know he won't give up, and needs the others to return later. Either way, it reinforces a lot of Brainy's character. Brainy accepts his own fate. But it's the fate of countless others (through time travelling Super-implications) that gets him fighting. A touch of great heroism from Brainy.

Superboy takes time to notice the detail of Smallville. He does this by walking. A few poignant panels here unfortunately led to a pathetic, long winded Superman storyline decades later.

Overcome with feelings towards his friends and family in Smallville, Superboy throws himself into super deeds in the future. A hero to the last.

Meanwhile Luornu spends her time remote leching on Superboy. Feeling that writer-pushed self pity that would eventually take her out of the team with Bouncing Boy, she spends some time with her family, without telling them why. Apart from (and possibly because of) that, it's a lovely scene and you can see why people care so much about Lu. From one of the coolest looking future cars, to the little family moments to the reminder that the Legion are on duty, not just turning up for super heroics.

Karate Kid tries to be moody and mope, but knows that he has people who care for him. Like Superboy, his last hours are to be spent doing heroic deeds. But unlike his Kryptonian pal, Val goes up against huge odds, essentially committing martial suicide.

Like Lu's car, we see some more cool vehicles in the experimental Legion warp ships called a blast buggy.

Following some Adams (?) ads for Superman comics that no sane reader could ever leave on a rack unread...

This has to be one of Karate Kid's finest moments. He takes on the Fatal Five single handed. As much as Shooter likes the character, he doesn't get carried away. Practically generations of later writers would insist of having their pet favourite characters dominate any scene to the detriment of every character around them.

Kid is out of his depth and fighting them to a draw, and wrecking their base, is an amazing achievement. As so often in the years to come, Mano is taken out first. But the other villains come out looking as menacing as always, and are forced to retreat by the environment rather than Karate Kid.

Val's wish to die in battle in the Adventure run would come back to haunt him once Giffen got anywhere close to him.
Jeckie creates illusions in her depression, but is cheered up by park stalker park philosopher (and Legion fan fav) Myron Marks.

They return to the base as Brainy asked. But disturbingly, there's no cure. This is a story that's going somewhere different. The dedication to duty that the legionnaires have, extends to them bequeathing their belongings to the organisation (and a personal force belt gift to Lyle from Querl, keeping their bromance alive - unlike Lyle later when he could have really used the belt.)

As the heroes begin to succumb, Brainy remembers the miracle machine. A gift from the controllers that could change anything. A deus ex machina for new readers, but a nice follow through from earlier issues.

But Shooter's not through with us at all. The next twist is that it's encased in Inertron and Superboy has just collapsed! It's all over as Brainy too falls unconscious.

The mysterious villain (who reminds me of Chemical King from his first couple of panels) responsible ignores the HQ alarms. No one is capable of stopping him (apart from the usual host of members who are off elsewhere. This is a story written perfectly for Swan).

Shooter tips his hand that all five are still breathing when time stops. Was that robed figure from the first page actually the Trapper after all? Of course not.

But what is going on? It's a left field cliffhanger just panels after the villainous reveal that wasn't cliff-hanger. All the more impressive as Shooter has already raised a few solutions only to have them fail.

There's a good mix of action, suspense and personal scenes in this issue, all executed with purpose and at a clipping pace. A pace that allows for several twists along the way.


"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Vol. 9
Lard Lad #837443 02/01/15 02:08 PM
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I enjoyed re-reading 378, too. If one accepts the premise of the five heroes being poisoned and deciding how to spend their final 12 hours, the story holds up very well.

The premise itself is a very good one, and is something that everyone in law enforcement or national security would be concerned about. In the modern era of anthrax poisoning, it should resonate with everyone.

The logical side of my brain, however, wonders why the Legionnaires accepted their fate so quickly. Why didn't they call in the other Legionnaires to assist Brainy in finding a cure? Why didn't they reach out and contact scientists from every world they knew of for a cure? Why didn't Brainy or one of the others think of the Miracle Machine sooner?

The emotional side of my brain feels a connection with the Legionnaires, however. Who wouldn't wonder how to spend their final hours if told they were told they were dying? At first, I find it hard to believe that both Kal and Lu would not tell their parents--instead, the former just disappears from their 20th century lives while the latter waits for someone else to inform her parents after it's too late. A bit cowardly, perhaps, but understandable given their young ages and the limited time they have to do anything about the situation.

Conveniently, the other three Legionnaires are either orphans or their parents are too distant to be informed. Brainy and Val keep busy in the only way they can: by searching for a cure and fighting, respectively. Jeckie tries to distract herself with illusions and movies; finally, a kind word from a stranger convinces her to accept what she cannot change. I think her quiet scene is my favorite, and one of the most mature bits of writing I've seen from Shooter.

Of course, Val gets to be the action guy who ultimately fails in his quest to die in battle. But he does give the entire Fatal Five a run for their money. That's something.

And, finally, the end comes with the five Legionnaires succumbing together. Both the logical and emotional sides of my brain would have liked to see this scene go a little further. Perhaps Lu confesses her feelings for Kal. Perhaps Val and Jeckie spend a quiet moment affirming their love for each other. Alas, the end comes too quickly, too suddenly, and without resolution--just as it often does in real life.

But this isn't the end. Our mysterious bad guy enters and gloats over his handiwork, and then . . . time stops!

Well, you know it would have to be a cliffhanger. The Legionnaires can't go out like this, though I almost wish they had. It would have been a much more interesting sequel if the rest of the Legionnaires had discovered their murdered comrades and then scoured the galaxy for their killer than 379 would turn out to be. However, what is delivered up to this point is a very poignant, thoughtful, and mature tale of people facing their final hours.

Win Mortmer's art has its ups and downs, but I think his style fits the mood of this story well. His art has a Ditko-esque feel to it--shadowy and somber, even noirish. He also draws a very lovely Lu, as in the panel in which she raises her chalice to Brainy.


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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Vol. 9
Lard Lad #837446 02/01/15 02:28 PM
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Rakurga: sometimes I wonder where writers get these things.


Usually I can find it with google. Shooter might have made it up. I found a writer who used it after, in 1989 but it was two words, referring to a place.

I wonder if that writer was a Legion fan.

Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Vol. 9
Lard Lad #838004 02/07/15 10:04 AM
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Adventure 379

A shocking Superboy burial at space cover with the upset Lyle and Salu. Lyle's particularly upset as he's probably just launched out Brainy before Superboy, but that wouldn't sell so many copies. Nice to see that cultist representatives keep up with future fashions too.

The splash page and the actual story don't quite go in tandem. Our mysterious poisoned form last issue was himself frozen in time. Here, we see that the being responsible is an alien. Our heroes are frozen on the point of death.
The alien is one of the Seerons. Of course their universe is much more advanced. Yet, it takes it's time explaining that it wasn't responsible for the poisoning; shows how advanced it is by making a casual threat to annihilate the world and blackmails the Legion into helping it. Not exactly benevolent.

We get a brief history of the intellectual Seerons. Oddly the Seeron who's stopped time for the poisoned Legionnairres goes home for a rest. I wonder how his power keeps going.

Anyway, we get enough to just about separate the Seerons from Doctor Who's Sensorites. Then the story takes a bit of a dip. It's a bit of an obvious Brains versus Brawn scenario as the Seerons are threatened by their overly physical invaders.

Ultra Boy is very much the leader as he marshals the Legion into plotting against the invaders using nifty 3D holo maps. Rather than combat the entity responsible for sending the invaders, a being that would have to have intelligence to do so, the Legion focus on the invasion itself.

Another option would be to get the oh so smart Seerons to design and build some super weapons. But that's strangely off the agenda too. Perhaps their mighty intellects no longer have a creative spark to them.

The burden of leadership weighs heavily with Ultra Boy. He shares a moment with Tinya, where he wonders what he'd do without her. Just the little nugget the 5YG guys would pick up and run with.

Nothing starts off a campaign more than a good sleep and being cleansed with radiation first thing in the morning. Just ignore the unsightly tumours after prolonged use.

Starboy indulges in some casual racism as he can't tell the Seerons apart, and then it's off to the battle! It doesn't go well for the Legion. One of the invaders is shown as intelligent, which is more than can be said for Tinya as she's knocked out having forgotten to use her powers.

Meanwhile, back at the Legion ranch, we get the link to the cover and splash page. Lyle and Salu discover the five dying Legionnaires. Since no one thought to leave a note (on future paper let alone etched into a giant steel block) they just assume that they are all dead.

No ceremony on Shanghalla for these guys. Still, it could have been worse. They could have been launched into a sun which would have made for a bit of embarrassed feet shuffling later on.

Worried about protecting Tinya, Jo opts for a defensive fortress, ignores his scouting to have a chat and is useless in battle while worrying about her. All the whiny Jo moments in the 5YG run have some origins here. He snaps out of it and helps out his friends, including the for once utilised Chemical King.

In the end the Legion's best plan is just to have hordes of the Seerons engage in the war themselves. While this may have involved some strategy form the Legion, on the page it just looks like a massive brawl.

While the story's message is supposed to be that both mental and physical aspects are just as important. I take from it that the best way to counter violence is with more violence, preferably with greater numbers or better weapons.

The Seerons cure all within the Legion HQ of every infirmity. But again, the Seerons aren't as benevolent as they seem. Perhaps it was all the "Egg Head" comments. Their cure only applies to Lyle and Salu, as the others have already been launched into space. They really are dead. Uh oh. Embarrassed feet shuffling.

Fortunately there's a miracle machine in the basement that cures the Legion and helps the writer out of a tight spot. I had been expecting the legion to have been returned to moments after the burial and save their friends as they breathed the last of the air in their coffins. Even that has Seeron related issues, but anything's better than the Miracle Machine.

Alek Korla is revealed to be the mystery villain who poisoned the others. Who he? He's apparently a minor crook, yet managed to get the most deadly poison in the galaxy. But why investigate? If anything else happens there's that machine in the basement.

The second part had a very clunky central message, and neither the Seerons or their invaders got my sympathy. Jo was whiny over Tinya. Although it was part of his development here, it's stuck with him. Chemical King came out best and there are a few nice personal moments such as Brin's apparent snoring.

Lyle's great health lasted up until his sudden death. Validus didn't seem to be impressed at the resilience of the vertebrae he was crushing though. Salu's mental health lasted until her spell in a sens-tank. Perhaps the Seerons helped give her the force of will to come through it as well as she did. Physically she would go onto lose an eye and a leg.


"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Vol. 9
Lard Lad #838175 02/08/15 02:32 PM
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Nice summary, Thoth. Just a couple of points from me. 1. The Miracle Machine didn't cure the 5 Legionnaires. It only brought them back to the clubhouse in time to be cured by the Seerons' thought spell thingy. Jo says it couldn't have saved them if they had really been dead.

2. I had Adv. 379 for several years before I got 378 and it always bothered me that at the opening of 379, the 5 heroes are found together, whereas at the end of Adv. 378, Brainy is off in the basement in another part of the new sizeable hq, collapsed over the rather obvious clue of the Miracle Machine. So how did he get regrouped with the others? Alek Korlo wouldn't have had the time or even known where to look for him. And if Vi and Lyle had found Brainy over the MM, Shirley they would've used it to revive them. I suppose the lead Seeron could've tidied the 5 back together into a neat little bundle, but why would he bother? It seems to me, the story would've been better served if Brainy's mad dash for the MM had been deleted.



Attached Images 379.jpg
Last edited by jimgallagher; 02/08/15 02:39 PM.

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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Vol. 9
Lard Lad #838179 02/08/15 03:54 PM
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Well my 13 volume set of Legion Archives arrived so now I can join the rest of you in these re-reads. Yet, I don't need the Archives to chime in on this issue, it's one of the original Adventure Comics that i obtained from my older brother's comic collection years ago....

The cover of Adventure #379 has always been one of my favorites from this era. Of interest on the cover is the use of the Bible for the funeral ceremony. I like the idea that religion, and especially Christianity, still plays a role in life 1,000 years in the future. Back in 1969 the Bible still played a more prominent role in contemporary culture. If the cover were redesigned for a comic in 2015 I wonder what religious heritage would be utilized if any.

I am amazed that Ultra Boy didn't video chat with other remaining Legionnaires out on missions not to enter Legion headquarters and remove the bodies of their comrades before they were healed lest they should die. I guess the concept of an iPad or iPhone let alone holographic messaging were beyond the scope of Jim Shooter's imagination back then. But alas, if they had gotten ahold of Invisible Kid and Shrinking Violet we wouldn't have gotten this memorable cover.

Seeron culture has always intrigued me from this issue. The Seerens remind me of Dr. Morphea from Atari Force. She also came from a mentally advanced culture. Since the mental capabilities of the Seerens and the physical abilities of the Legion were unable to stop the onslaught of the invaders, then it seems implausible that the brute force of the Seeren populace could take them down as Ultra Boy plans it out. The plan feels more like Shooter was running out of space and had to resolve things fast...(a similar complaint leveled against Levitz in many of his vol. 7 stories).

Another gimmick is the use of the Miracle Machine to save the day. I'm glad later writers got rid of it. It's a too easy fix for too many problems.

I enjoyed seeing Ultra Boy as Legion Leader, and regret that none of the Legion writers in the Origional/Retroboot eras ever got his dream of marrying Phantom Girl to come true.

This was a classic Legion story and fun to reread.

Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Vol. 9
Lard Lad #838216 02/08/15 06:22 PM
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Adventure #379

Adv #379, the follow up to the awesome #378, starts out with a lot of promise, but as so often is the case, can't quite stick the landing. Yet, in a weird way it tells one good story while screwing up another.

The major problem is that the promise of the prior issue is never fulfilled, and we never really get any satisfactory follow up to the 5 dying Legionnaires and Alek Korlo. Even worse, the awful Miracle Machine provides the worst cop-out yet for a convenient ending. It's a frustrating end to the last two issues.

Yet, the main part of this issue isn't bad. On the surface, the story of the Seerons and their invaders is a pretty interesting sci-fi story that features a nice array of Legionnaires. It is a little cliche, but it features a very nice ending / message about standing up for yourself and recognizing power of a large group of people who at first feel powerless.

In practice, there are more than a few misfires though, such as Jo feeling he need to protect Tinya (though at least he overcomes it), Condo's temporary power usage to gain super strength and the overly snide nicknames for the nameless Seerons that the Legionnaires give. Alone, all these things could be tolerable. Combined, they get pretty annoying.

I did enjoy the usage of Ultra Boy though, as we see him struggle with being leader and then showcase how great a leader he actually can be in the end. I also enjoyed seeing he and Tinya's romantic side, which we've hardly seen yet. A make out sesh in the dark hallway? Finally! These Legionnaires are hooking up and dammit, we want to see it!

So this one is a mixed bag with an ending that really falls flat. As we grow closer to the back-up era, you have to wonder how Shooter, who obviously struggled immensely with the full length format, must have been stressing out about an 8 page format.

Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Vol. 9
jimgallagher #838292 02/09/15 01:50 AM
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Originally Posted by jimgallagher
RE Invisible Kid as leader, this is from Adv. 346:



Thanks for the info and that is very interesting. I don't see Mort making the call himself on who should have been the next leader. So I wonder if ENB or Shooter made the pick, or maybe they made the selection together. Either way right out of the gate Shooter writes for Lyle and writes strongly, so he must of at the least been supportive of Lyle being picked to be leader.

Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Vol. 9
Leather Wolf #838471 02/09/15 11:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Leather Wolf


I am amazed that Ultra Boy didn't video chat with other remaining Legionnaires out on missions not to enter Legion headquarters and remove the bodies of their comrades before they were healed lest they should die. I guess the concept of an iPad or iPhone let alone holographic messaging were beyond the scope of Jim Shooter's imagination back then. But alas, if they had gotten ahold of Invisible Kid and Shrinking Violet we wouldn't have gotten this memorable cover.


There's a trail of unfathomable "failure to communicate" in this story. The five poisoned Legionnaires don't bother to tell any other Legionnaires about their dilemma...other than writing their will on a steel tablet which no one finds. And as Leather Wolf points out, the second batch of Legionnaires don't bother to leave a message either. But one of the stupidest actions in Legion history is when Lyle and Salu discover the "dead" Legionnaires. Salu calls for an investigation (of course!) but Lyle (of all people) says, "Later! Hurry, let's bury their unexamined bodies in the void of space!" (slight paraphrase). In what universe does that make any sense?

But yes, it does create an opportunity for story tension and cool cover art.

That aside, one of my favorite moments in Legion stories is the "good-night" scene on Seeris. Cobie mentioned the Jo/Tinya interlude, but I liked even better Cham's line: "Hey...if you two want to neck, do it quietly, huh...it's tough enough to sleep with Timber Wolf's snoring, let alone that foghorn voice of yours, U Boy!" Such a good, succinct portrayal of the group's casual intimacy and friendly humor.


"Everything about this is going to feel different." (Saturn Girl, Legion of Super-Heroes #1)
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Vol. 9
Lard Lad #838502 02/10/15 08:39 AM
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Yes, at the very least somebody could've left a note "Don't touch the bodies".


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