Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Convergence: Superboy and the Legion of Super-Heroes #1

AVClub has a preview I can't conveniently link to, if you're interested.

http://www.dccomics.com/comics/conv...uperboy-and-the-legion-of-super-heroes-1
CONVERGENCE: SUPERBOY AND THE LEGION OF SUPER-HEROES #1
U.S. Price: $3.99
On Sale 4/22

STARRING HEROES FROM CRISIS ON INFINITE EARTHS!! While Brainiac 5 struggles to break through the dome, Superboy tries to keep the Legion of Super-Heroes’ spirits up – until the Atomic Knights ride into town to cause mass destruction!

And this is the worst art in all the covengergence titles.
Someone inside DC hates The Legion!

Preview pages:

http://www.avclub.com/article/exclusive-dc-preview-convergence-superboy-and-legi-218258

The art stinks! I think I'll pass on this one.

Boy am I fickle. I said I'd pass on Convergence because of the art, and I ended up buying the digital download anyway. That's what you call being a die-hard Legion fan I guess.

Well, the art still stinks. The story...well it's a beginning. I have a hard time believing it'll all get concluded in just one more issue. This issue was just set up. Next issue will contain the whole plot and climax. Can the writers really tell a good story in just one issue? Doubtful, especially since it took 6 issues to tell the recent Infinitus Saga. I'll probably buy the digital copy of next issue as well, and then decide if this two issue arc is worthy of purchasing the print edition for my Legion collection.

Continuity: Element Lad is mentioned as being Legion Leader, so we sort of know where this would fit in continuity. Interesting to note that Lightning Lass and Timber Wolf haven't met up yet since she rejoined the Legion. I'll have to reread the back issues from that era to see where this storyline might fit.

Definitely not a fan of the art. The writing was mediocre at best. Nothing bugs me more than the whole "Let's reference as many classic storylines/issues as we can in lieu of actually getting the characterizations/feel right". I mean... Superboy having to be reminded by Ayla not to be self-centered? How bizarre.

Anyway, not sure how much sense the "Wildfire isn't here because he is his powers" thing, but it's pretty obviously a setup for him to return and save the day next issue, so whatevs. Also, interesting that Brainiac Five still apparently possesses his "super-intelligence" even under the dome.

Man, that art is .... not to my liking.

And how bad is the coloring not only on Wildfire's suit but wow - they got it wrong for Ferro....

They are playing fast and loose with the interpretation of "no Powers" all over the place. Gim get's stuck at 12 feet, while Swamp Thing slowly deteriorates. Metamorpho turns human again but Drake doesn't. As I pointed out in the main Convergence thread, all of these issue #1's are variations on the same plot. While it may be interesting to see how these are handled, it's not $4.00 level of interesting.

I thought the art was bad and the writing was utterly mediocre.

My one big complaint is that they got Shadow Lass' hair and costume wrong. She had already grown out her hair and gotten the Lightle costume by the time Sensor Girl, Tellus, Quislet, and Magnetic Kid had joined (no jokes about "Maybe she cut it again after they were imprisoned", please.)

I assumed based on Ayla's recap page that this was immediately after the LSV stuff (though since Jo is there it would have to be immediately after the "Suneater 5" got back home). Other than the flashback page in the back do we see any of the new batch of Legionnaires?

It's all a bit of a continuity fudge anyway as Brinn never went on "walkabout" (just like over in Swamp Thing, Alec didn't learn to body jump until well after Matt was hospitalised, but that's obviously not the case in the Convergence issue).

Fudges or not, I don't see why they would show the new recruits in the back of the comic unless they intended to make it clear that this takes place after Baxter #14 (where they joined) but right before Baxter #18 (the Crisis crossover with the Infinite Man). If they screwed up their intent, well, that's just par for the course with DC these days.

The only "walkabout" that Brin might have taken, upon which Ayla's comment could be grounded, was Timber Wolf's trip in LSH vol. 3 #12-13 to Lythl to fulfill Karate Kid's will. I'd have to check those surrounding issues to see when Brin and Ayla ran into each other after her rejoining the Legion.

Putting the details aside -- much as they annoy me and others -- it just seems to me that DC is treating the Legion like an unwanted stepchild.

Yeah, these continuity match-up things are always a mess, but I wonder if it would make sense to have it deviate form Superboy's visit in v3 #12?

It would make more sense than what's one the printed page, that's for sure.

If you go by that it also includes a scene from v3 Annual #2, which is several months past the end of Crisis.

Exactly.

I don't mind the premise (mainly because I've not already read it in all the other Convergence titles) The Legion stuck in Metropolis without their powers.

Why it has to be for so long seems a pointless mystery. We don't really get a feel for the disintegration such an event would cause to a city.

It's just a premise for the cities to travel to the Alt+Beyonder. Because, although capturing cities form different universes and carting them off through space is fine, teleporting them there would be silly.

I agree that we don't even get a surface level look at nearly any of the characters. Those that are focused on, such as Ayla and Clark, don't seem anything like themselves. So it's a blessing that more of the team aren't focused on.

Thanks for probably wrecking that budding Ayla/Vi relationship DC! >mutter<

Brainiac's part was mixed. Everyone writes him as an obsessed, egocentric scientist now, so few points there. Even the part where he's trying to spare people the grief before he has hard facts falls flat, because he's keeping the information from his own teammates in the middle of a crisis.

Nothing really happens in the issue. Having been handed the steps to the issue, the writer adds little else to it. We get a quick set up, Brainiac getting a hint, and then they land on Alt+Battleworld. That's it.

I've been getting used to the art over on EGOs. But this is so much worse. Was it drawn ages ago? Was it a rush job? or both? It's not likely to win many supporters, I'm afraid. It's never a good thing when they *have* to wear the costumes so you can identify them.

It would seem that the whole thing is going to descend into an Arena type thing. I'm only getting the next Legion issue, and then I should be done with this. It was rubbish when Marvel did it, and this looks to be no better.

Rating - 2.75 (it would be less if I were to actually bring any Legion knowledge into things)

The whole premise of Convergence is that cities are taken just before their worlds were destroyed, so in Adventures of Superman, Supergirl should already be dead and the red sky thing shouls have happened. Superman shouldn't be in Gotham he should be at the beginning of time fighting the anti monitor etc.

For the Legion, this means that the new kids should be members and the Infinity Man and the other run ups to the end of Crisis have already happened.

If not then all the cities have to be returned and everyone forgets about their year under the dome, otherwise Crisis/Zero Hour/Infinite Crisis would not have happened as they did.

I don't think that's the case despite what the promotional copy has said. The Suicide Squad Metropolis and the Batman and the Outsiders Gotham both don't come from any discernible "End of the World" scenario for example, and Swamp Thing definitely comes from a timeframe before American Gothic/Crisis.

Not a fan of the ambiguous continuity (although it seems to be after Karate Kid died and Polar Boy joined, but not include any of the newer stuff from the latest run, like Sun Boy's death or Boremonia Li).

Nor the art.

It's kind of a downer that this is the only Legion we've got right now.

I also picked up Convergence issues of Teen Titans, Justice League of America (Detroit!) and Batman and the Outsiders.

None of them where particularly good, although it was nice to see Kole and pre-evilcrazy Jericho again, mitigated somewhat by Donna pining for Terry Long, which made my soul shudder a bit, as I'd managed to forget he existed again, and the reminder was like that warm rush of bile that precedes a reappearance of lunch.

It occurred to me while reading that issue, that Jericho is perhaps the only mute hero I've seen. We've got peeps in wheelchairs (Professor X, Whiz Kid, the Chief, Oracle), peeps with missing or non-functional arms and / or legs (Cable, Forge, Arsenal, Silhouette, Karma), blind or deaf folk (Daredevil, Shroud, Blindfold, Destiny, Echo, Hawkeye (at least partially)), etc. but not a lot of mute folk.

MT these are no worlds we have ever seen before.

Some costumes are unfamiliar, some relationships are unfamiliar, and both Leigon and Teen Titans continuity seems distorted.

And it is interesting that Brainiac 5 is still pretending to have super-intelligence.

It's getting so we have enough versions of the Legion claiming to be a continuation of the pre-Crisis team that we could have a whole series just of these different variants fighting it out!

LOL

Good point, EDE.

Long haired Shadow Lass killing short haired Shadow Lass -- I could get behind that.

Seriously, though, Pre-Crisis was not the be-all-end-all of the Legion. Some of my favorite Pre-Boot stories -- Sensor Girl/Fatal Five, Universo Project, Shadow Lass questing to save Mon-El -- happened Post-Crisis.

Yeah, that was one of several annoying inconsistencies.

The Golden-Age Daredevil was mute.

There's that one comic that has that chick Saturn Girl who was mute in one version of it...

That reference is too obscure.

Sounds dull. I bet they don't even have enough story for 49 issues.

Waid and Kitson's Legion was a brilliant re-imaging of what had become a minor DC property. Then Shooter came in, revived a bunch of tired boring fifty-year-old tropes. Then just kinda lost interst. Theend.

I know there are many, many who disagree with me.

Even though I disagree with you, we here at Legion World always welcome opinions on the Legion which go against the popular consensus. I myself, for example, think that Keith Giffen is the Anti-Christ, and that even his early Legion work is tainted by evil.

Waid and Kitson had an interesting idea on paper, but the execution was sorely lacking. I'm not a huge fan of the Legion being at odds with the UP/society and prefer that they're viewed as a shining example of heroism and selflesness.

I didn't last long with the Waid/ Kitson run, but it read better when I got to read a number of issue together later on.



That was a message from the Val Armorr benevolent society.

Huge welcomes to the forums Sue Pergirl!

LOL And also from the Keep Most of the Female Legionnaires' Hair Long Society.



Likewise. Sorry I forgot to welcome you before, Sue. We have a thread in the MMB forum where you can tell us more about yourself.

http://www.legionworld.net/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=174771#Post174771

And we also have a thread where you can tell us about your roadmap as a Legion fan.

http://www.legionworld.net/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=59763#Post59763

Imra's hair was nicer when it was short. I sense a companion thread to Lash's Costume Face Off!

Imra having short hair I have no problem with. And I think Ayla should always have short hair. The others, no.

I agree on Ayla too. Lu too actually... oh and Vi... gosh there were a few weren't there?

Lu? Don't get me started on her. The last-minute haircut before going off to fight the Time Trapper is one of the many reasons I loathe the Preboot Lu.

It's not well known, but the reason the Time Trapper wears a hood is to hide a really bad hairdo. Lu was either showing the Trapper new styles or having a similarly bad hair cut depending on how you view Lu's hair

I'm truly surprised that I seem to be the first person mentioning this:

Did anyone else notice that the alternate cover of this issue featured Saturn Girl ... who did not appear in the story?!

*cough*Panel-Hog*cough*

I think a lot of this has to do with the way Superboy/Superman was written in the Silver Age. There are entire websites dedicated to his behavior during this time-frame; and to put it lightly, he does seem like a jerk to many people. The Superboy/Superman of the Silver Age could solve just about any problem (and he often narrated that to the audience!), which makes it hard to relate to him. As good as some of the Silver Age stuff is (Brainiac, Kandor, etc) the tone of the writing in that era is just hard for some modern readers to understand.

Snake-Eyes from G.I. Joe!

There's Zorro's sidekick, Bernardo.

When Giffen and Co. relaunched Ragman, he was mute when wearing the rags (then subsequent writers abandoned that).

Black Bolt might as well be mute.

Most of the human cast of Marvel's planet of the apes?

Good spot by BRM.

Yes, the Threeboot did have one or two interesting ideas and, honestly, the idea of Imra (and all of her race, presumably) being mute telepaths was one of the better ones.

Having said that, I didn't care for it overall and my my opinions are not based on Keith Giffen being the Anti-Christ, which he clearly is.

"Eat it, Grandpa!" wasn't an issue for me because I think it was clearly laid out (initially) that both society AND the Legion were evolving towards something better.

The problem was the pacing. After a promising start and some great little character bits to establish stuff (The Triplicate Girl issue, the PG backup), the first arc drug on for TWELVE issues, with an ironically forgettable villain whose power was to be forgettable and a ham-fisted resolution. The Supergirl lifeline was clunky, and didn't work well, and then the Dominator war again didn't come off right (I suspect Waid was pretty frustrated by that point). The less said about Shooter the better,

^^Agreed completely.

The first issue was okay, then the next two or three issues were really good, and then it was like a complete collapse as far as pacing went.

I kind of suspect Waid was either annoyed by negative reactions from fans or by plans for Johns's retroboot, and just stopped putting the effort in.

Ah, the Threeboot....

There were some neat ideas, that seemed logical (Titanians having atrophied vocal chord) and one or two I really loved (Dream Girl being able to use her powers while awake, 'Atom Girl' being something of a 'secret weapon' that some believed a myth or prank).

And then there was the odd stuff. In the first issue or two, mention is made of a Daxamite referendum about joining the UP or something, and later, we learn that the Trommites of this AU genocided the Daxamite race! (So who lives on Daxam now? Trommites who took over the planet after killing the Daxamite natives?)

Phantom Girl doesn't turn intangible, she time-shares between her native dimension and this one, which, logically, would make her power a *nightmare* to use. What if she needs to 'phase' but someone on Bgtzl is standing there, or there's a plant or wall or mountain or parked vehicle right there, so that she can't 'go to Bgtzl' from this exact point in space, since it's already occupied? What if the only thing in that specific Bgtzl space here is open ocean, or deep space, or a volcano, or the inside of a chemical processing plant or nuclear reactor or just the fast lane of a super-highway? What an ill-conceived notion...

I *liked* the idea that they were trying something new, to mix things up and freshen the mix, but some of those ideas were clearly not even *remotely* thought out.

And while artistic tastes are subjective, and while Barry Kitson was a fantastic dude, friendly and personable and totally appreciated, I kind of preferred the gorgeous Francis Manapul and Yildray Cinar art that followed.

When I was in college, I was once approached by someone looking for signatures to organize a rally for 'apathy'. Yes, really.

She wasn't amused by my response (don't care) and the rally never occurred. However, it illustrates a point of an old show-business adage: program toward the audience. In other words, if your audience is composed of mainly toddlers then don't inundate them with Shakespeare. They won't get it, trust me.

Which brings me to what I believe was one of the biggest flaws with the Threeboot (and, yes, I realize that we've hijacked the topic but stay with me for a moment), that it was written for the readers/audience that DC wanted to have rather than for the one that it already had.

The rallying cry of "Eat it, Grandpa".... why did anyone think that this would bring in the customers? Did they seriously not look at the data of who the ones buying the comics were?

Of course they didn't. This was part of DC's (but not just them, to be fair) current editorial model, likely due to strong-arming from the corporate level. In short, it was the "we want new readers!" mentality that DC has become famous for but with no thought of the reader base that already existed.

It's no wonder that it was as flawed as it was and I've come to feel sorry for Waid (whereas I formerly equated him with Satan)

The Threeboot DID gave us Theena. I like her.

'Eat it Grandpa' was wrong on so many levels. Not least if you are a kid rebelling against your parents why use 'Grandpa'? Given the hate for the Legion amongst adults, 'Long Live the Legion' was enough. Whether to blame DC or Waid the most for the faults in the threeboot, depends on who drove the idea. Did Waid pitch it and DC grabbed it or did DC approach Waid to write it?

I feel that's a problem with DC (and sometimes Marvel) as a whole, not just with the Threeboot.

I was reading the much-ballyhooed Geoff Johns nu52 relaunch of Aquaman, and it was written explicitly to rebute internet geekery about 'talks to fish' and 'the weak link of the League.'

In short, it was written for people who don't like, don't 'get' or have no interest in Aquaman. The exact people who probably wouldn't buy a book with 'Aquaman' on the masthead, if it wasn't written by Geoff Johns (which means he was creating a relaunch that lived or died based on how long it was before he got bored with it, and his fans faithfully followed him to his next book, having never been fans of *Aquaman* at all...).

Meanwhile, if you were already a fan of Aquaman, and liked him even before he stood around talking directly to the reader about how he was a badass, desperate to 'disprove' all those mean things people say about him on the interwebs, it was just a big fat insult, since the book was being written for people who hate the character, and not those who loved him before he had Joe Cool 'I'm not just a client, I run DC!' writing his book.

The whole nu52 reboot reeked of that. 'We need to change everybody to appeal to people who don't buy our books!' Uh, seriously? Marvel seems to do the same, at times, with some of their new characters or characterizations, designed with an agenda, and not any sort of organic character growth.

After reading DnA's Hypernaturals, I kind of wish they'd gotten a chance to write the *classic* team, and drag some of that whiz-bang transhuman futurism into it, so that the 30/31st century didn't feel like what someone in the '60s thought the future would be like. Not change for change's sake, but change that *fits the Legion.* Change that makes sense and opens doors to new story options, not closes them on what has come before and paved the way. Accept that you're building on the backs of giants, and honor their contributions (as much as possible), instead of 'rebooting' or 'AUing' and trying to bury your past as if you're ashamed of it (or just too much of a headcase to admit that you didn't invent all of this yourself).

Completely agree about Aquaman. I'm not a huge Aquaman fan, but I was giving the book a look along with all the others.

Having him as the butt of jokes from his first issue onwards seemed completely needless. Considering that the NuJLA had presumably done some world saving, there was no rational reason why the people of that world would react the way they did. So, they were really expressing the views of someone else, mainly the people who wouldn't pick up an Aqua-book.

The art was nice, and the writing passable so I lasted half a dozen issues. But that approach did nothing to endear me to the book.

I still laugh thinking of the multi-page Johns butt-kissing they had in Green Lantern when he left. Another feeble DC moment.

As Set's ALt+ID, I also agree with his Hypernaturals points. There were a number of things there that could have been moved into the legion-verse to push it forward.

Wait, I thought we were all EDE's Alt-IDs?

In all honestly, I think the JLU cartoon and Injustice: Gods Among Us (Both the video game and related comic book) did more justice towards Aquaman's reputation than the new52 book. The audience does exist (and I state this as a 24 year old female), it just isn't generally consuming the material in comic book form. That is why so many people my age were angry that John Stewart wasn't the Green Lantern in the movie (though in retrospect that might be a blessing); we knew John Stewart from the JLA cartoon in the '90s.

I think it is fair to say they are just trying to improve the reputation of Aquaman for a potential movie (probably a Justice League movie). It's better to do it now before Marvel uses Namor.

I prefer John Stewart as GL. I didn't pick up any Green Lantern comics as a kid. When I did see Hal he was always quitting, whining or being the straight man in "relevant" issues that should have been a lot more obvious to him.

On the other hand, John Stewart seemed to get the job done. Even when it was clear he was a stand in for Hal.

Having now read the Wein/Gibbons GL issues, I still like John Stewart for the role. For me, what made Hal special was gone before I started reading comics.

When I was really young, Hal was a serious straight-shooter, prone to making the fast hard decision with a minimum of hand-wringing or angsting about it. He was experienced, respected and kind of a practical counter to Oliver's more idealistic (and unserious / Errol Flynnesque / swashbuckling) style.

Then Kyle and John started showing up, and each of them also had appealing traits, and I shook my head at the notion that I had to like one and hate the others, as if my like of Hal had somehow made me no longer able to like Alan Scott, or something ludicrous like that.

Nowadays, Hal is back, and he's a fratboy who screws up constantly, underestimates everyone, gets not just himself, but the entire League into hot water with his overreactions, etc. I don't dislike Hal Jordan, but golly, do I hate what Geoff Johns has turned him into!

Barry has similarly been character assassinated since his return, made into a bumbler, openly mocked by Wonder Woman, of all people, for being unable to interrogate people, instead of, again, an experienced respected hero, with his own museum!

Yeah, having read a few of the much older GL books now, I don't dislike the character.

It's a great concept, he has that test pilot occupation and there's lots of sci-fi with a supporting cast and plenty of other Lensmen Lanterns for company.

I'm sure he's a huge character for lot of people. But he just wasn't at his best when I started seeing him.

I've read the first few Flash comics of this run, but it didn't keep my interest. I spent my pennies on back issues instead to finally read the start of that Cary Bates final stretch.

Hal makes the most sense to me when tied to the 1960s, just as Alan Scott makes the most sense when tied to the 1940s, as Kyle when set in the 1990s. Treating him as though he is a contemporary character just feels wrong to me.

First issue sold 33,605, which is fairly close to the bottom of the Convergence minis (Infinity Inc. was the worst at 30,114, while Harley Quinn the best at 69,838).

http://icv2.com/articles/news/view/31604/top-300-comics-actual-april-2015

Not overly surprising and proof-positive that no one at DC is listening to the complaints of those of us who actually like the Legion.

Specifically, crappy story and art that belongs on a Bazooka Joe gum insert are what killed readers off during the Legion's previous title. So, what does DC give us this time?

Crappy story, lousy art... of course they do.

I'm telling you guys; someone at DC really doesn't like the Legion very much.