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The 5YL Legion: Reviews by Kappa Kid
#860344 07/17/15 09:09 PM
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NOTE: These reviews are re-posted from the Classic Comics Forum , where I am a member. If a lot of this information seems redundant to you or if I reference posters who aren't on LW, that's because I used it to fill in other members who weren't familiar with the Legion over there. smile

Could this be my most ambitious project ever? Few properties have been scrutinized by fans over the years as much as the Legion of Super-heroes. With it's combination of science fiction, epic space opera antics, and adolescent soap opera drama, the team, which preceded even the Justice League and Teen Titans, has become one of the most intricate and continuity dense comic properties of all time. While this has spawned a very hardcore fanbase, it is these same continuity dense traits that have often scared new readers from dipping their toes into the series. With that in mind, I'm going to tackle what many Legion fans consider to be the most polarizing era in the team's history: the 5YL period. 

Fresh off the success of Watchmen and after legendary writer Paul Levitz ended his near 9 year run on the series, Levitz's frequent co-plotter and DC superstar at the time Keith Giffen would be handed the reigns to the team and usher in a radical departure from what fans knew before. Joined by Interlac APA members and longtime Legion fans Tom and Mary Bierbaum, Giffen would fundamentally turn the franchise on its head. The safety wheels were off. Nobody was safe and the future as Legion fans knew it was gone. This was an "adult Legion", in every sense of the word. Did it succeed though? That's what I, and hopefully you, will find out. wink

[Linked Image]

EDIT (7/29/15): Here's the link to Tom Bierbaum's blog recounting his experiences working on the Legion.

http://itsokimasenator.livejournal.com/

Last edited by Kappa Kid; 01/01/16 10:53 AM.

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Re: The 5YL Legion: Reviews by Nostalgia Lad
Kappa Kid #860345 07/17/15 09:10 PM
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Background Information

In 1985, DC published the epic maxi-series Crisis on Infinite Earths in an attempt to both catch up in sales to Marvel Comics and gain back a larger portion of the market while also boiling down their 50+ year continuity to make it more manageable for new readers. Whether or not they succeeded and if throwing out so much continuity and history was a prudent move can be debated back and forth, but the event ultimately dealt a major blow to one of DC's top selling books at the time, the Legion of Super-heroes.

At the time, Paul Levitz was in the middle of his now legendary run on book. Levitz, along with his contemporaries Marv Wolfman and Chris Claremont, was a master of juggling multiple plot threads in each issue while also driving forward the franchise forward, actually allowing characters to grow. Members left the team. Members died. Some married and retired from being superheroes. New members joined and began to replace the old guard. It was a book that understood the need for characters to not remain static and to actually grow up with the reader. In contrast to the modern comics paradigm of reboots and relaunches to radically shift characters in new directions, Levitz understood that character growth must come organically through the events they faced and the relationships they had. Like the New Teen Titans and Uncanny X-Men, the Legion grew in popularity due to its ability to push the characters into the next stage of their lives while remaining true to the continuity that came before it.

Unfortunately, the good times were not meant to last forever. The events of Crisis were a huge thorn in the Legion’s side, creating a double-edged sword situation. On one hand, the Legion, for the most part, was immune to much of radical retooling that other franchises, such as Superman and Hawkman, felt in the post-Crisis era as their existence was 1000 years removed from the “present” DCU and their status as a top selling book gave the book freedom from sales driven changes (i.e. the Byrne revamp of Superman). On the other hand, however, it was that same lack of change that quickly made the Legion a problem franchise. John Byrne’s reboot of Superman completely removed Superboy from Kal-El’s career as a superhero, retconning Superman as only putting on his cape once he was an adult. However, how could the Legion be inspired by Superboy if he now never existed in the DCU? As you may have seen in shaxper’s reviews of the post-Crisis Superman books , things got messy fast. Levitz was forced to salvage the situation as best as he could and write a way out of the paradox he now found himself in. This led to the convoluted "Pocket Universe" saga that ultimately revealed that the Superboy and the Smallville the Legion knew were simply constructs of the Time Trapper all along and that any interaction they had with Superboy was never with the real thing.

[Linked Image]

Needless to say, it was clear that Levitz's mojo took a heavy blow with this turn. Following the death of the Pocket Universe Superboy to remove the last vestiges of pre-Crisis ties to the Legion, Levitz's run quickly sank. Sales began to go down and DC editors scrambled to find a replacement to take the franchise in a new direction while Levitz himself was promoted to VP of DC. Levitz's last arc on the series, The Magic Wars, saw the United Planets besieged by ancient arcane forces in a battle of magic vs science. Though the Legionnaires ultimately defeated the Archmage and the universe was saved, it was clear that the Legion's future was a much darker place than it had ever been before, setting the franchise up for the dystopian future that would soon follow in the TMK era.

[Linked Image]

Last edited by Nostalgia Lad; 07/17/15 10:17 PM.

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Re: The 5YL Legion: Reviews by Nostalgia Lad
Kappa Kid #860346 07/17/15 09:12 PM
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Legion of Super-heroes (1989) #1

[Linked Image]

"Five Years Later..."
Writer: Keith Giffen, Tom Bierbaum, Mary Bierbaum
Pencils: Keith Giffen 
Ink: Al Gordon
Color: Tom McGraw
Editor: Mark Waid

Grade: A- 

Summary: We open to a splash page of stars with only the words "Five Years Later" in the center of the page. From there, we move to various panels of news correspondents, including Dirk Morgna aka Sun Boy, discussing various topics. We then cut to a hooded figure watching the news as he talks to his secretary. The figure laments "watching everything fall the pieces", but the secretary reminds him of his responsibilities. The figure that removes his hood to reveal that he is Reep Daggle aka Chameleon Boy. Reep asks for his father's aide, Marla Latham, for help in his endeavor. We then find Rokk Krinn aka Cosmic Boy on his homeworld of Braal, married to his wife Lydda Jath aka Night Girl. The two are expecting their first child, living on a planet that has largely fallen into disarray. Like Reep, Rokk also laments the fall of the Legion and regrets not being there to save the team from splitting up. As he travels the streets, he is harassed by a UP soldier who asks to see his ID before he can go on his way. Meanwhile in outer space, Salu Digby aka Shrinking Violet, who is now an officer in the Imsk army, is returning to a shuttle to meet her commanding officer for a meeting. An android meets her as she exits the shuttle and asks her about removing a large scar over her eye, but she refuses to get rid of it. Her commander also brings up the scar issue, but she refuses once again and is discharged from the army for refusing to follow an order. She then sends a message to Ayla Ranzz aka Lightning Lass that she's coming to Winath to see her. Back on Braal, Rokk is meeting his friend Loomis and discussing how much things have changed since they were kids. Suddenly, Cham appears and proposes his idea of reuniting the Legion to make the universe a better place. Rokk is initially shocked, but slowly realizes that the universe needs the Legion again now more than ever. The two walk off, beginning their journey to rebuild the Legion again. 

Thoughts: This issue is a continuity nut's dream. Every page is lined with Easter Eggs, references, and world-building that would become a hallmark of the run and it's emphasis on continuity heavy plotting. Reading this in 2015, I'm amazed at how any new reader, if there were any, could have understood this story. When I first read these issues, I had the aide of Wikipedia and Comicvine to look up any character or setting I was unfamiliar with. But in 1989? I imagine such comprehension would be a Herculean feat for a new Legion reader. For one thing, TMK (Tom, Mary, and Keith) actively reject using the Legionnaires' hero names and instead rely on using their actual civilian identities (i.e Reep, Rokk, Salu, etc.). On one hand, this gives the story a more intimate feeling, as if these are characters we've known for a long time and are revisiting after years apart. On the other hand, if you lack that familiarity, it's near impossible to understand who these characters are and what their relationships are to each other. Furthermore, the numerous nods to past Legion continuity will play an important role in later issues, which a new reader may not be privy to.

Giffen's use of a nine panel underscores the huge influence Alan Moore's Watchmen had on storytelling at the time and I think it fits the kind of story being told here. The limited panel size forces the artist to squeeze in only the bare essentials of an image to convey the message of the story, leaving much to the reader's imagination to fill in the gaps. This creates a more complex method of storytelling that doesn't hold the reader's hand. One downside of this method, however, is that it often prevents any "motion" in a story. Smaller panels prevent the characters from showing any movement or engaging in any action that would require more panel size. Giffen circumvents this by focusing more on dialogue and interpersonal moments rather than action heavy set pieces throughout this run. 

What's most enjoyable about the issue is the sense of mystery TMK leave the readers with. Why is Dirk now a politician? Why is Rokk having flashbacks to a war and how did he lose his powers? Why is Salu now in the army and where did she get that scar? It leaves the reader hungry for answers and is very effective in that role. This is helped by the use of backup pages at the end of the issue that serve as clues to the overall events that occur during the 5 year gap. One example is this message from Polar Boy to the President of Earth:


[Linked Image]

Though the message is fairly concise, it sets up the tension between the government and the Legion that is developed during this run. 


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Re: The 5YL Legion: Reviews by Nostalgia Lad
Kappa Kid #860347 07/17/15 09:13 PM
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Legion of Super-heroes (1989) #2



[Linked Image]

Writer: Keith Giffen, Tom Bierbaum, Mary Bierbaum
Pencils: Keith Giffen 
Ink: Al Gordon
Color: Tom McGraw
Editor: Mark Waid

Grade: B+ 

Summary: The primary focus of this issue is on Jo Nah aka Ultra Boy. The issue opens with a group of soldiers/police chasing a young girl named Kono through the alleys of Rimbor, Jo’s home world. Meanwhile, a Khund businessman and chairman of a company are discussing how Jo’s ‘Silverale’ business is cutting into their profits and that catching Kono will lead them to Jo, whom Kono works for. Kono continues to evade the cops and eventually hides in the sewer, thinking she has escaped but is actually being watched to use her to lead them to Jo. After a brief Silverale commercial, we finally meet Jo, who is now a smuggler living in the seedy Rimbor underworld. He’s just woken up from a one night stand with a woman named Ginny and is annoyed to see the commercial playing on TV. Kono pops in and scares Ginny, making her leave in anger. Outside, Ginny is confronted by the same goons who saw Kono in the sewer and threaten to kill her unless she gives them information on Jo. Though she gives them his location, they kill her anyway. Meanwhile, in outer space, Loomis and Lydda are enjoying a catered meal courtesy of Reep. Loomis points out that the cost of their one meal could feel a family on Braal for a month, but Lydda says they should enjoy these small joys in life when they can. Back on Rimbor, the goons blow up Jo’s hideout, forcing him and Kono to fight for their lives. On Earth, Shvaugn Erin, science police officer and longtime girlfriend of Jan Arrah aka Element Lad, is returning to her home to find a note from Dirk professing his love for her. She writes it off and decides to take a bath, lamenting how hard being a SP officer is now. Little does Shvaugn realize that all her communications are being monitored by a woman named Circe, Dirk’s current lover and spy for the government. Back on Rimbor, Jo searches the wreckage of his destroyed home until he finds what he’s looking for: a tarnished shaving set from Rokk with the acronym “L.L.L” etched into it. The issue ends with a page of all black panels broken only by blue dialogue bubbles, ending with a panel of a man dressed in what appears to be Victorian era clothing.

Thoughts: This issue is even more jam packed with details and content than the last! Instead of continuing to follow Rokk and Reep again, TMK make the conscious choice to keep filling the readers in on the current status of the other Legionnaires. I can’t say Ultra Boy has ever been one of my favorite Legionnaires so the decision to make him one of the central characters during this run struck me as odd when I first read these issues. I’ve always viewed the characters as a discount Superboy replacement, but TMK actually make me interested in the character here for the first time. During the Levitz years, Jo was always a generic, good guy jock kind of character, lacking any real traits beyond his relationship with Phantom Girl. However, placing Jo back on his home world of Rimbor gives TMK the chance to make him into more of a “rouge with a heart of gold” which gives him interesting archetype to embody.

You probably notice that my summary frequently jumps around between different events and characters every sentence. This reflects the approach taken to storytelling during this run. It’s a style very reminiscent of what Levitz would do during his run that preceded this one, constantly shifting between different characters in each issue to give different subplots a chance to develop while also fleshing out the main storyline of the issue. In contrast, TMK don’t seem to have a main plot (at least for now) that they want to get the readers invested in. Instead, these past two issues are dedicated to slowly drawing back the curtain on the current state of the universe and how things have changed since Levitz left the book. It’s a very ambitious approach to writing that I think works well in the context of the story they’re trying to tell, since it makes the reader constantly want to know what happened to subplot A before it ends on a cliffhanger so they can get to subplot B.

My favorite scene in this issue is when Jo emerges from the wreckage to find the shaving kit. The look on his face conveys all the emotion the story had been building towards:

[Linked Image]


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Re: The 5YL Legion: Reviews by Nostalgia Lad
Kappa Kid #860348 07/17/15 09:15 PM
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Legion of Super-heroes (1989) #3

[Linked Image]

Writer: Keith Giffen, Tom Bierbaum, Mary Bierbaum
Pencils: Keith Giffen
Ink: Al Gordon
Color: Tom McGraw
Editor: Mark Waid

Grade: B

Summary: The issue opens with a page of different images taken by a probe of different Legionnaires. Though none of the Legionnaires are show in the images themselves, their location as well as current activity are shown. We then cut to the castle of the evil mage Mordru who has captured longtime Legion ally and secret Green Lantern Rond Vidar and is torturing him by letting some creature eat him alive, though it is merely an illusion that will last for eternity. One of Mordru’s servants informs him that the Legionnaires are regrouping once again. On the planet Winath, Garth Ranzz aka Lightning Lad and his wife Imra Ardeen aka Saturn Girl are now running a successful produce shipping business with Garth’s brother, the once villainous Mekt Ranzz aka Lightning Lord. Though they are better off than most, the galactic economy is still hurting their business. Meanwhile, Salu meets up with Ayla and she takes Salu into a secluded grove on Winath to surprise her, revealing the statues to all the dead Legionnaires that were bought by Garth from Earthgov. On Rimbor, Rokk and Reep are looking for Jo when a large, furry creature beckons for them to follow it. Though they are wary, they decide to go with it. They find Jo and are happy to be reunited after so long. Back on Earth, the Dominators are noticing all this Legionnaire activity and are worried that it could pose a threat to their plans of galactic domination. They have hired an agent to deal with the problem and have a tape of his work to see if he’s worth the price. The tape reveals that the agent is the man dressed in Victorian clothing from the end of the last issue. He reveals himself to be the space pirate Roxxas, who murdered the entire Trommite race except for Element Lad. In an attempt to establish his brutality, he murders the Legionnaire Blok, who was hibernating(?) on a barren planet. Shavaugn gets her hands on the same tape and his heartbroken to see what has happened to Blok. Back at Mordru’s castle, it’s revealed that one of Mordru’s servants had been eavesdropping on the Legionnaire’s conversation and their plan to get back Mysa Nal aka White Witch from Mordru. Mordru tells one of his servants, Vyrkos, that they should prepare for their arrival. Back on Winath, Garth finds that he has received a mysterious package in the mail. In it, he discovers the broken body of Blok that Roxxas has sadistically delivered to him. He tells one of his workers to prepare a transport to Shanghalla to bury Blok. The issue ends with a mysterious voice speaking as we see the grave of Lar Gand aka Mon-El. The tombstone explodes and a figure rises and walks off.

Thoughts: These summaries are getting more and more tiring to write, but I’m not complaining. TMK’s relentless assault of information and plotting is so refreshing to read in an era where an issue like this would be told in six issues, with at least one of those likely being a tie-in to some company wide event comic. It’s nice to check back in with Rokk and Reep again, as their return ties the first two issues together and begins a more cohesive focus for the book. The banter between the trio is beautifully written and its small moments of camaraderie that give these early issues their spark, contrasting with the dark setting the heroes find themselves in.

The return of Mordru as a villain is an odd choice, especially since Paul Levitz had the Legionnaires remove Mordru’s evil soul and essentially make him a good guy during his run on the Baxter series. I do have to wonder if this is a deliberate regression on the part of the writers or whether they were simply ignorant of that story. Either way, Mordru is used effectively here. In contrast to his usual self, his much more calm and composed, giving as a villain who’s both calculating and cunning, relying on his true power only when needed. His torture of Rond is very disturbing, especially since Rond’s mouth is gone, preventing him from screaming.

The one failing of this issue is the perhaps the most obvious: the death of Blok. Putting aside my own general distaste for killing off characters, Blok’s death here just doesn’t work, neither on an emotional nor storytelling level. It’s no secret that the Bierbaums were staunch enthusiasts of the pre-Adventure Comics #350 Legion roster, so newer characters like Blok, Wildfire, Dawnstar, Tellus,etc. were often written out of the book or completely changed past the point of recognition under their pen. Their use of Blok seems to be more of a case of the former. Even during the Levitz years, Blok never really had much of a personality and had a tendency to fade into the background. He also wasn’t popular among readers, a fate that unfortunately befell many of the non-humanoid Legionnaires. I’m guessing those reasons gave TMK the backing to write this story, since they felt they wouldn’t face any reader backlash for killing off a character simply to prop up their villain. The problem is that Roxxas as a villain has no connection to Blok that would make their confrontation have any meaning beyond a superficial fight sequence. Tom Bierbaum has said that Shvaugn Erin was originally supposed to die at Roxxas’ hands, which would have made much more sense considering their shared connection to Element Lad. However, Shvaugn was spared and Blok was given a pointless death that served no real purpose other than a cheap stake raising moment. The fact that Roxxas sends the body parts to Garth undermines some of the tension and just becomes silly, like something out of an 80’s slasher movie.

The fight between Roxxas and Blok also brings to light my earlier point about how the nine panel grid can be both a boon and hindrance to conveying action sequences. This fight is an instance where things are too vague for the reader to understand. How is Roxxas hurting Blok? Is he simply touching him and causing him to explode? Is he carrying bombs? What's going on here?

[Linked Image]


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Re: The 5YL Legion: Reviews by Nostalgia Lad
Kappa Kid #860349 07/17/15 09:16 PM
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Legion of Super-heroes (1989) #4

[Linked Image]

Writer: Keith Giffen, Tom Bierbaum, Mary Bierbaum
Pencils: Keith Giffen
Ink: Al Gordon
Color: Tom McGraw
Editor: Mark Waid

Grade: A-

Summary: This issue opens on the planet Talok VIII, home of Tasmia Mallor aka Shadow Lass. Another Talokian, Grev, informs her that the council of Talok has declared that he is to replace Tasmia as the planetary protector. She understands and agrees its for the best. While she is in her home, she is surprised to find her long dead lover Lar Gand aka Mon-El Waiting for her there. Meanwhile, on the planet Colu, Querl Dox aka Brainiac 5 is working with some cells infected with the Validus plague in his lab when Tasmia and Lar arrive. Lar reveals that the Legion’s greatest enemy, the Time Trapper, is within his body and brought him back to life to use him as an invulnerable vessel to host his soul. Horrified at the prospect that Querl might remove him from Lar’s body, the Time Travel snatches Lar from Colu and teleports him to his dimension. As the two begin the battle, the Time Trapper reveals the horrible truth behind the Legion: they were all his creation. Hundreds of years ago, the Time Trapper foresaw a future in which Mordru were rise to power and rule the universe for a millennium. In order to prevent this, the Time Trapper created Superboy to inspire teens in the future to found the Legion. For years, the plan worked and the Legion kept Mordru in check. However, once they defeated Darkseid during the Great Darkness Saga, he realized that they were becoming too powerful even for him. Even though they thought they had killed him (LoSH v3 #50), the Time Trapper survived. Ultimately, if Lar kills the Time Trapper, his reality will completely cease to exist. With a look of determination on his face, Lar realizes that he has no other option but to end his reality for the greater good of the future. As he deals the final blow, his universe begins to fade to white as it disappears.

Thoughts: In contrast to the last three issues, this one is a lot more linear. We don’t jump around to too many characters or subplots this time, even if the location of the story keeps changing. In this regard, it’s a nice change of pace that gives the reader a chance to catch their breath. Ironically, this issue is even crazier than the last!

The return of Mon-El and the Time Trapper is definitely a bold move. The “final” battle against the Time Trapper during the Levitz years is one of my personal favorite Legion stories so the fact that its brilliant ending is undone here is a bit disappointing. Resurrecting Mon-El, on the other hand, is a good idea in my book since I felt his original death was pretty cheap and lazily tacked on to the Magic Wars arc without actually advancing the story in any way.

The retcon of the Time Trapper being behind the creation of the Legion both works and it doesn’t. Like the changes brought about by the Pocket Universe story, the continued undermining of Superman’s importance to the Legion doesn’t sit well with me. Superman is the DCU’s supreme hero and role model for all other heroes who followed him. The Legion simply coming together on their own can work, but I felt that their bond to Superman made them more interesting as a team. On the other hand, TMK are able to make do with the massive restrictions the Superman editors placed on them. If the last vestiges of Superman’s role in the Legion were going to be removed, I’m glad to see it go out in a blaze of glory. I could simply state how Mon-El’s final words is one of the greatest moments in comics for me, but I think the page speaks for itself:

[Linked Image]

Awesome.


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Re: The 5YL Legion: Reviews by Nostalgia Lad
Kappa Kid #860366 07/17/15 10:14 PM
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Great reviews. I think I agree with everything you've said about the series.

(Why didn't you post the roll call from the other site too?)

Re: The 5YL Legion: Reviews by Nostalgia Lad
Nightcrawler #860370 07/17/15 10:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Nightcrawler


(Why didn't you post the roll call from the other site too?)


Oh crap, I forgot! eek

It's a bit too late to insert in near the beginning of the thread now though. shrug


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Re: The 5YL Legion: Reviews by Nostalgia Lad
Kappa Kid #860380 07/17/15 11:22 PM
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It's never too late.

Re: The 5YL Legion: Reviews by Nostalgia Lad
Kappa Kid #860386 07/17/15 11:58 PM
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Not much between despair and ecstacy
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I'm looking forward to reading these reviews. I'll be making comments as I go along, such as:

Originally Posted by Nostalgia Lad

Fresh off the success of [i]Watchmen
and after legendary writer Paul Levitz ended his near 9 year run on the series, Levitz's frequent co-plotter and DC superstar at the time Keith Giffen would be handed the reigns to the team and usher in a radical departure from what fans knew before.


This sentence implies that Giffen had something to do with Watchmen, but he did not. That was Dave Gibbons. What Giffen did (though he denied it) was to copy the nine-panel grid format Gibbons used.


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Re: The 5YL Legion: Reviews by Nostalgia Lad
Kappa Kid #860392 07/18/15 12:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Nostalgia Lad
Legion of Super-heroes (1989) #1

Grade: A- 


I love it that you're giving these issues grades.

Quote
Reading this in 2015, I'm amazed at how any new reader, if there were any, could have understood this story. When I first read these issues, I had the aide of Wikipedia and Comicvine to look up any character or setting I was unfamiliar with. But in 1989? . . . On one hand, this gives the story a more intimate feeling, as if these are characters we've known for a long time and are revisiting after years apart. On the other hand, if you lack that familiarity, it's near impossible to understand who these characters are and what their relationships are to each other. Furthermore, the numerous nods to past Legion continuity will play an important role in later issues, which a new reader may not be privy to.


Good insight. I often felt that TMK were writing for the faithful and not really concerned with expanding the Legion's fanbase.


Quote
One downside of this method, however, is that it often prevents any "motion" in a story. Smaller panels prevent the characters from showing any movement or engaging in any action that would require more panel size. Giffen circumvents this by focusing more on dialogue and interpersonal moments rather than action heavy set pieces throughout this run. 


Another good insight. The nine-panel-grid approach was jarring and most of the images were ugly. Giffen lacked the finesse that Gibbons imbued Watchmen with, and some panels were downright confusing.

On the other hand, there was indeed an intimacy and focus on relationships more so than at any previous time in the Legion's history. That aspect I admired very much.


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Re: The 5YL Legion: Reviews by Nostalgia Lad
Kappa Kid #860402 07/18/15 04:54 AM
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Wonderful reviews, Stalgie. TMK's 5YL remains my favourite Legion period.

One of the standard questions of our time is "Where were you when Kennedy was shot?" (or for younger people, when 9-11 happened). I can remember where I was and what I felt when I read the first issue of 5YL and, even for an old Legion fan, it was confusing, but exciting.

You make a good point that hadn't occurred to me, that the Bierbaums gave the post-Adventure Legionnaires, such as Blok, short shrift. Interesting! We know what they did to Dawnstar as well.

Will any issue get an A+? I'm looking forward to your succeeding reviews.


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Re: The 5YL Legion: Reviews by Nostalgia Lad
He Who Wanders #860413 07/18/15 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by He Who Wanders



This sentence implies that Giffen had something to do with Watchmen, but he did not. That was Dave Gibbons. What Giffen did (though he denied it) was to copy the nine-panel grid format Gibbons used.


I apologize for that awkward phrasing, HWW. I meant that Moore's work was a huge influence on his contemporaries of that era and Giffen's work from that point on was heavily influenced by Watchmen. smile


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Re: The 5YL Legion: Reviews by Nostalgia Lad
Fat Cramer #860415 07/18/15 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Fat Cramer


Will any issue get an A+?


I know one that definitely will and I think it will surprise a lot of you when we get there, but we still have many issues before we get there. wink

Last edited by Nostalgia Lad; 07/18/15 08:57 AM.

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Re: The 5YL Legion: Reviews by Nostalgia Lad
Kappa Kid #860553 07/18/15 09:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Nostalgia Lad
[i][u]Legion of Super-heroes (1989) #2

In contrast, TMK don’t seem to have a main plot (at least for now) that they want to get the readers invested in.


I think you're right, and that was one of the things I found off-putting about TMK's approach. Whenever I've followed ensemble-type series--a style I love, by the way--there is always some central plot thread to unify the various strands. This was true on TV shows such as Hill Street Blues, St. Elsewhere, Babylon 5, and, currently, Downton Abbey. It is crucial, particularly when a series is just starting, to give readers/viewers a main character or plot on which to focus and through which we come to know the rest of the characters and story lines. It's a very difficult balance to pull off, and I don't think TMK mastered it--certainly not at the beginning of the run and maybe not ever.

Quote

My favorite scene in this issue is when Jo emerges from the wreckage to find the shaving kit. The look on his face conveys all the emotion the story had been building towards:


Yes, this scene pretty much redeems the early run. The Legion has bitten the dust, much like the shaving kit, but it matters to Jo--and so it matters to us. As a reader, I now have some emotion tied to these events.


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Re: The 5YL Legion: Reviews by Nostalgia Lad
Kappa Kid #860558 07/18/15 09:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Nostalgia Lad
Legion of Super-heroes (1989) #3


The thing that most disturbed me about Blok's death was that he had started to undergo a bizarre physical transformation and, as the last of his kind, he did not know what it meant. Was it puberty? Cancer? Something else else else? Alas, we never found out. His death was a cheap way of not dealing with a character the writers didn't want to deal with.



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Re: The 5YL Legion: Reviews by Nostalgia Lad
He Who Wanders #860562 07/18/15 09:18 PM
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Originally Posted by He Who Wanders

The thing that most disturbed me about Blok's death was that he had started to undergo a bizarre physical transformation and, as the last of his kind, he did not know what it meant. Was it puberty? Cancer? Something else else else? Alas, we never found out. His death was a cheap way of not dealing with a character the writers didn't want to deal with.



Was that transformation a TMK addition or did that have roots in the Levitz era? I don't have my Levitz issues in front of me so I can't remember. hmmm


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Re: The 5YL Legion: Reviews by Nostalgia Lad
Kappa Kid #860575 07/18/15 09:52 PM
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Yes, the transformation began in the Levitz era after Blok was blasted by an enemy (I want to say the Omen...you might have snagged that issue at Comic-Con). I think the changes were mostly due to Keith wanting to experiment with Blok's look.

Re: The 5YL Legion: Reviews by Nostalgia Lad
Kappa Kid #860578 07/18/15 09:57 PM
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Thanks Nighty! smile


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Re: The 5YL Legion: Reviews by Nostalgia Lad
Kappa Kid #860594 07/18/15 11:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Nostalgia Lad
[i][u]Legion of Super-heroes (1989) #4

The “final” battle against the Time Trapper during the Levitz years is one of my personal favorite Legion stories so the fact that its brilliant ending is undone here is a bit disappointing.


Exactly. This story reminded as that there was no such thing as a "final story" in comics, just as there is no such thing as a "farewell tour" in rock 'n' roll. smile "Final stories" are a cheap, theatrical gimmick that can be undone by the next creative team.

Quote
Resurrecting Mon-El, on the other hand, is a good idea in my book since I felt his original death was pretty cheap and lazily tacked on to the Magic Wars arc without actually advancing the story in any way.


True, but I accepted his death because of its verisimilitude. People in real life die what seem to be pointless deaths, and I've come to accept that as a reality of how fragile life is and that many of us really don't fulfill our ultimate potential (which makes it truly precious when someone does).

Reality is not fiction, of course, and story lines should be advanced by whatever happens in them. An advancement does not have to be major; sometimes it can simply involve a character reacting emotionally to something that has happened. One of the failings of the Levitz era in general, I think, is that he didn't provide us with many such moments. Even in the misguided story line where Lyle Norg was found to be alive, we never got to see the Legion's reaction to their long-dead comrade returning to life! Instead we got to see scenes of a brooding Lyle, who, in the end, didn't even turn out to be the real Lyle. It was pretty much a waste of newsprint.

Mon-El's death could similarly have been redeemed had the Legion reacted to the passing of this man who was once considered their greatest member, a man they admired so much that they went to great effort to free him from the Phantom Zone. Instead, as the Magic Wars ended, no one other than Shady even seemed to be aware of his passing.

It is nice that he was brought back to deliver the coup de grace to the Time Trapper and thus end the preboot timeline. Still, I don't have much emotion attached to this story since, by this time, the Legion and I as a fan had been jerked around so much, it seemed, that all of these "major events" had lost their meaning.

Quote
The retcon of the Time Trapper being behind the creation of the Legion both works and it doesn’t. Like the changes brought about by the Pocket Universe story, the continued undermining of Superman’s importance to the Legion doesn’t sit well with me. Superman is the DCU’s supreme hero and role model for all other heroes who followed him.


Agreed. For those of us who ascribe to certain faith traditions, it would be like finding out that Jesus Christ, the great savior of mankind, was actually created by the devil. It pretty much makes everything that is good and noble and worthwhile a cynical lie.

Quote
The Legion simply coming together on their own can work, but I felt that their bond to Superman made them more interesting as a team.


Yes!


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Re: The 5YL Legion: Reviews by Nostalgia Lad
Kappa Kid #860749 07/19/15 01:41 PM
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Always good to see 5YG. A few thoughts in passing...

On the background - "Needless to say, it was clear that Levitz's mojo took a heavy blow with this turn. Following the death of the Pocket Universe Superboy to remove the last vestiges of pre-Crisis ties to the Legion, Levitz's run quickly sank. Sales began to go down and DC editors scrambled to find a replacement to take the franchise in a new direction while Levitz himself was promoted to VP of DC."

I never got the impression that sales tanked. I'm sure new readers from the relaunch would have been welcome, but I didn't think (based on today's memory cell) that the book was decreasing in sales drastically in advance of anyone else's. Likewise, Levitz had planned to go at #50, but was persuaded to stay on. So, I never felt there was any desperate scrambling around there either. There's a lot in that last year that acts as foreshadowing to the TMK run, so it was a pretty smooth transition as these things go.



On #1 - "Reading this in 2015, I'm amazed at how any new reader, if there were any, could have understood this story. When I first read these issues,"

I read that the smaller initial cast was supposed to lead new readers into the series. The history and texture of the previous runs would make the worlds that cast travelled in a rich and rewarding place. I do recall a few letters stating they had no issues. A quick look at #1 and it's really Cham, Rokk, Vi and Lydda. Dirk gets some panel time and we see the founders and Brek in passing. Loomis and Marla are firmly supporting cast. So, to be fair to them, I think that's a pretty decent number, compared to other team books.



On #2: "In contrast, TMK don’t seem to have a main plot (at least for now) that they want to get the readers invested in. Instead, these past two issues are dedicated to slowly drawing back the curtain on the current state of the universe and how things have changed since Levitz left the book. It’s a very ambitious approach to writing that I think works well in the context of the story they’re trying to tell..."

I think that the slow drawing back of events and introduction of the cast is just what the reader is supposed to be invested in. While we don't get Cham & Rokk, that's replaced with Loomis and Lydda (an interesting choice to progress that side of things - would seeing Cham & Rokk some more have improved that, but losing a couple of classic lines?). We get a little more on both the Dominators on Earth and on Roxxas as subplots too.



On #3 - The Mordru story is a progression from the other sorcerers making him "good". At the end of the Magic Wars, they required leadership, in an increasing hostile galaxy where their own powers had now waned. They hoped that a reformed Mordru would be able to provide that, with their and Mysa's guidance and support. He may not have had his sorcery, but it makes the point that there's plenty of bad things around without resorting to the supernatural. Mordru thinks he's a good guy throughout all this, which makes him a very strong character.

I'm not 100% on the sequence but Rond was supposed to die and the team had been told not to use Green Lanterns (see also Thanangar and Super-anything). The ring being destroyed took care of one aspect of that, but Rond may have been for the chop anyway. Like Erin, he got a reprieve. I like the non-GL Rond. His appearances in TMK and Adventure were strong ones. Then there's the later subplot.

Bearing in mind that the death of Blok was a fill in for Erin's death as you said, the link between Blok and Roxxas was that Blok was the last of his kind. This was Roxxas reminding Jan, the last of his kind, that they had unfinished business and that this is what Roxxas thought of survivors. So it wasn't quite pointless to the overall plot, although Erin would have been the closer connection.

As to how he does it, there's a grenade being thrown on panel one with a "Poom" sound effect to follow. There are 2 more "Poom" effects with similar damage to Blok, so they would have come from two more grenades. It fits into the arsenal that Roxxas had been given. He mentions his anti-Legion arsenal on that page too.



On 4: "The “final” battle against the Time Trapper during the Levitz years is one of my personal favorite Legion stories so the fact that its brilliant ending is undone here is a bit disappointing. Resurrecting Mon-El, on the other hand, is a good idea in my book since I felt his original death was pretty cheap and lazily tacked on to the Magic Wars arc without actually advancing the story in any way."

I do note that you said that "Following the death of the Pocket Universe Superboy to remove the last vestiges of pre-Crisis ties to the Legion, Levitz's run quickly sank." But the "personal favourite" Trapper story came after that. wink

Mon-El's death in Baxter had the Mark of Giffen (also the name of an under-rated '70s martial arts movie where all the martial artists die in it) around it. This is based on him wishing to make things tougher for a team to be heroic, with the implication that it means more when it's tougher. It links in with the last issues of the last run. Mon-El was critically injured there too, and removed from the board.

But having said that, my understanding was that this issue had been mostly plotted to bring him back when the edict came down. Perhaps we would have got the interesting Eltro Gand subplot, secrets of the Trapper and Lar (and it's only Lar now) and Tasmia would go off exploring together.

I have to say that dealing with the edict resulted in some very memorable Legion moments and the addition of two excellent cast members, even as it was the beginning of the end for everything else. Oohh, suspense built up for upcoming reviews smile






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Re: The 5YL Legion: Reviews by Nostalgia Lad
Kappa Kid #860763 07/19/15 02:17 PM
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Dammit thoth, you're not supposed to poke holes in my reviews here! wink laugh

Joking aside, you do make some valid points:

1). I read somewhere (can't remember where now) that sales began to decline after the Pocket Universe Saga and Levitz himself has said that he didn't enjoy writing the book as much after he was forced to deal with the post-COIE issues. Whether or not that was reflected in the work itself is a subjective matter (I enjoyed those issues anyway), that's what I've read and heard.

2). Even if the Time Trapper battle came after the Pocket Universe Saga, I still stand by my opinion that it was an awesome story! smile

3). Having Mon-El become a more prominent member during the 5YL run would definitely have been interesting. Alas, that never fully came to pass. frown

4). The "grenades" used by Roxxas against Blokk look no different than the ground or Blok's skin, which was hard to discern on a first reading. Also, when Roxxas rushes Blok and fight him in close quarters, wouldn't being in such close proximity to the explosions hurt him too?

Last edited by Nostalgia Lad; 07/19/15 07:46 PM.

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Re: The 5YL Legion: Reviews by Nostalgia Lad
Kappa Kid #860777 07/19/15 02:41 PM
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smile

I read that Levitz simply didn't particularly enjoy having to be involved with the wider DCU.

You had Brainy wondering why he didn't know of Supergirl's death.
Superboy was retconned away and Levitz's initial solution wasn't taken on board.
There were some things around Legends that didn't quite happen for him. I have a post on Crisis of the Soul somewhere.
Then there was Laurel Kent getting shot, only to turn up as an android in Millennium.

I think there were a number of good issues after the Superboy thing. After he was gone we had conspiracy, the Trapper issue, the trial issue showing how much the team had changed ideologically, the new costumes and that really good Emerald Empress 2 parter.

Having Lar more prominent would perhaps have shown just how much further the Legion and the UP had to go to get back on their feet. I think that they did some interesting things with him, but he can overshadow things. Just look at the last Levitz run, where he was leader, the mightiest Legionnaire and a green lantern at the same time.


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Re: The 5YL Legion: Reviews by Nostalgia Lad
Kappa Kid #861009 07/20/15 07:30 PM
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Legion of Super-heroes (1989) #5

[Linked Image]

Writer: Keith Giffen, Tom Bierbaum, Mary Bierbaum
Pencils: Keith Giffen
Ink: Al Gordon
Color: Tom McGraw
Editor: Mark Waid

Grade: B

Summary: Following the destruction of the original Legion timeline at the end of last issue, we open in what appears to be a medieval realm. It’s the year 2994 and Mordru has seized control of the universe in this new timeline and the world has been sent back to the Dark Ages. Our first character is Andrew Nolan (Ferro Lad in the original universe) who is on his way to a monastery to meet Mysa Nal (White Witch in the original universe). Andrew is replacing a man named Foxmoor as Mysa’ confidant to take down Mordru. While she is initially hesitant to divulge information to him, she eventually reveals that she knows of another universe that should exist in place of theirs (the original 30th century). Andrew takes this information to Rond Vidar, a gifted scientist and intellectual in this timeline. Meanwhile, Glorith, one of the wives of Mordru, is returning to her home where she is met by Mano, who serves Mordru in this timeline. After their meeting, she decides to keep an eye on Rond, who she thinks is up to something. Glorith begins to spy on Rond’s activities, eavesdropping on his meeting with Andrew and watching him perform a ritual. During the ritual he is hit with lighting, giving him access to the alternate timeline. He passes out and wakes up to find that Glorith has taken him in. She explains that she can be of help to him in his plan. Meanwhile, Mano has discovered Mysa’s link to the conspiracy and goes to stop her. Just as he is about to attack her, Andrew jumps out of the shadow and tackles him. While this is happening, Glorith is preparing to engage in the ritual. Just as the lightning strikes, she realizes the spell is fatal and curses Rond. The spell takes effect and the timeline begins to fade to white just like it did at the end of the last issue. Mordru can only shout “No!” in despair as he realizes what is happening, but it’s too late.

Thoughts: I’ve never been a huge fan of Elseworlds stories, but I think this issue could qualify as one of the few good “Elseworlds” tales that was never given that official title. Unlike other stories from that imprint (Superman At Earth’s End or Catwoman: Guardian of Gotham), the characters are not only written in character, but the bizarre universe they’re thrown into actually serves a purpose beyond a superficial setting swap. Placing the Legionnaires in a world ruled by arcane magic and medieval superstition contrasts heavily with the seemingly enlightened science oriented 31st century that the Legion is typically associated with. In some ways, it feels like an alternate ending to the Magic Wars, where the Legion failed in their mission and the Archmage truly did reign supreme. The fact that Mordru himself never makes a direct appearance in the story itself until the last few panels serves as an advantage, as it makes him seem more like an entity or legend rather than a physical being. As such, his influence is almost as deadly as his powers, as is seen when Mano tortures and kills a young woman by dissolving her live in a pit of acid.

I like that the issue focuses on Rond Vidar, making him the mastermind behind the plan and our point of view for the story. Rond is a character that I feel is often underutilized and this is easily one of his best portrayals. On the other hand, I don’t really care for TMK bringing back Glorith as the Time Trapper’s replacement in the new timeline they’re crafting. Glorith was a pretty uninteresting, one-dimensional villain in her original appearance in the Adventure era so she seem’s like an odd choice. I personally thought it would have been more interesting if Rond was the new Time Trapper, especially since he has a fixation on time travel and timelines that was established in the original universe. Despite my dislike of Glorith, the Bierbaums will do great things with the character in the upcoming annual so I can forgive them for that for now.

Last edited by Nostalgia Lad; 07/20/15 07:30 PM.

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Re: The 5YL Legion: Reviews by Nostalgia Lad
Kappa Kid #861046 07/20/15 09:39 PM
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My in-depth analysis of LSH 5 can be found here.


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