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The Writers' Discussion/Ideas Thread
#872325 10/12/15 10:27 PM
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Hi all,

Having just finished a major story arc for my Postboot/Reboot/Post Zero Hour Legion fanfic, I realized that one major difficulty I had was deciding on my Legion lineup. My final Active roll call is 42 members long, and I seriously considered ending with a lineup of 48 in fact.

(not counting supporting cast, Reservists and Legion Cadets, but I don't feel as big a need to manage the size of those groups! I just keep adding Cadets to my list smile )

I thought it would be interesting to see how other writers, especially those whose fics are ongoings, decide on their Legion lineups. More than the "who", I think the "why" and "how". Especially as I think the other active writers here all have upwards of 35 Active Legionnaires!

I'll start - when deciding which of my Legionnaires to keep, I focused on (warning, spoilers for those who read my work :p):

1) Diversity - mostly power and personality, although "look" became a small factor as well in the sense that I want to include more non-caucasian humanoids (Particon, Condo Arlik) and more non-humanoids (Lume, Babbage). That's one reason I dropped Magnetic Kid when I had Magno (spoiler!) rejoin as well.

2) My "synergy" with the character - there are some characters I just think I'm really good at writing, and some I need a better handle on. I think many will agree that I "get" Polar Boy (as Blizzard) and Spider-Girl really well, so despite Brek's lack of canon appearances and Sussa's weaker powers, I brought them in. I had an easy time writing Condo Arlik because I made him Lyle's boyfriend, so he got a flight ring too. On the other hand, I had some difficulty writing Kent Shakespeare, and because his powers duplicated many others' I made him take Reserve status.

3) The character's natural evolution in the stories (both canon and in my own writing) - Tenzil was a strong candidate, but I ultimately decided against because I kept having him saying that he didn't see the appeal of constantly being in danger. His powers haven't changed either, so I felt he lacked a compelling reason to change his mind. I'm still keeping him as a Reservist though and am strongly considering having him become full-time Active in the near future. On the other hand, Chuck (spoiler!) recently gained powers in my story AND has history of being in the field (he joined the Legion Subterfuge Squad in Legion Worlds), so it made sense. I almost kept Dirk Morgna as a Reservist too, but I took a second look and decided he enjoyed the thrill of missions, so made him Active too.

Other cuts I reluctantly made were Dragonmage, who inadvertently caused the destruction of Dryad AND Gil'd when he freed the Elementals despite being warned not to; and Thunder, who has a life of her own in the 90th century and (spoiler!) can now return there in her powered form. Finally, I wanted to promote Amp (Girl) Ming Sul and even expanded her powers, but realized that I hadn't given her enough screen time in my work to justify her inclusion just yet. And her "official", canon appearance as a Legion Cadet (Legion 25 only) wasn't impressive enough either, unlike for example Nightwind's or Infectious Lass' (in Gail Simone's story Legion 35-38).

I hope other writers will share their thoughts and thought processes smile I think this could be an enriching discussion for all of us.

Last edited by Invisible Brainiac; 10/27/15 01:33 AM.
Re: How Do You Decide on Your Legion lineups?
Abin Quank #872333 10/13/15 02:18 AM
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Really interesting question! I know I'm super-green, but I hope you don't mind my two cents!

Diversity of forms and powers and race and gender...totally agree with you. The Legion should look like they come from different planets. To me, there's no reason why they all have to be super Caucasian, and making the cast more diverse can serve the narrative better: sure, humanoids are mostly cool with the gender/race/creed of other humanoids, but you can still show there's room to improve with stuff like how the galaxy at large treats robotic life, or how beings like Drake are perceived, etc.

Also one of the most important things to be about the Legion is their size and the scope of their mandate: they protect the entire United Planets, and I love them most when their numbers are in the 30s/40s for active members. It differentiates them from other teams, and gives a lot of room for a lot of nuanced personalities.

That being said, one of the things I look for is groupings when I'm plotting out arcs. Teenagers, no matter the era, tend to cluster in friendly groups, and the Legionnaires should be no different. Tenzil and Chuck are obvious friends to me, as would be a more Postboot Drake with a more SW6 Ferro (who I have paired and they end up calling themselves "The Gruesome Twosome" and they're just a delight XD), and Luornu is a great lynchpin in getting a lot of the Legion Ladies to crew up into a big collective, depending on how she's written, etc...

The other side to that is where two chracters may clash, and that's sometimes equally fun to play with on missions or the like. Is the more reserved and quiet Tasmia gonna be able to keep her cool if forced to share a cruiser with Matter-Eater Lad for a few days? Would by-the-book Gim Allon be able to reign in Jo Nah and Brin Londo on a mission that requires diplomatic sensitivity? What does an argument about what's ultimately right to do for the galaxy look like between Rokk Krinn and someone like Blok or Tellus? These can be great moments and one of the benefits of a big cast is just how much you can mix-n-match.



"I weighed the odds of this working versus the odds I was doing something incredibly stupid and, well, I did it anyway,"

- Crow T. Robot
Re: How Do You Decide on Your Legion lineups?
Abin Quank #872335 10/13/15 03:29 AM
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Thanks for joining in Not-So-Bad Lad! I'm really glad you added your thoughts to the mix. You make some good points on considering potential character interactions and having a nice mix of personalities in!

I think Postboot Triad is a great character in that regard, she already has 3 different personalities.

On diversity, I very much agree with you as well. That's one reason why I want to keep including the Asian Dragonmage and Amp (Girl) in my own team later on, to join XS, Kid Quantum II, Karate Kid, Particon and Chemical Kid (Condo). As for the non-"humanoids", I really only have Chameleon, Wildfire, Shikari, Gates, Sensor, Lume and Babbage and to a lesser extent Brainiac 5 and Umbra, Nightwind and Infectious Lass (Microbe). Tellus is a good candidate but I'm thinking of tweaking his powerset as right now he duplicates Saturn Girl and Kinetix, and I also have Mentalla as a telepath...

One good thing about forming a Legion team though is that there are so many characters from different 'Boots which can be used, with a little tweaking here and there. And many writers here such as Harbinger and razsolo have included original characters in their teams too.

Last edited by Invisible Brainiac; 10/13/15 09:27 AM.
Re: How Do You Decide on Your Legion lineups?
Abin Quank #872342 10/13/15 09:43 AM
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This is a great topic for discussion, Ibby. Thanks for broaching the subject.

Synergy with characters is indeed important -- for example, I could write Tasmia in my sleep and feel like I got her exactly right, such is my affection and passion for the character. On the other hand, there are characters I like that I just can't quite seem to connect with, the prime example in my estimation being Jan -- one problem with him is I'm not good at hard science, or even basic science really, another is that DnA took the Postboot version of the character to his most logical and disturbing conclusion, and even though I adore "Legion Lost" (it may very well be my favorite multi-part Legion storyarc), there's also a sense of not being able to put the genie back in the bottle, so to speak.

And then there's the challenge of writing characters I personally dislike -- you'd probably never guess it now, but there was a time, despite her kick-ass characterization in "The Universo Project", that Imra was one of my least favorite female Legionnaires. She just seemed so square and so icy; it wasn't until I walked a proverbial mile in her shoes by writing her for the first time a few years ago in a major role in one of my stories that I finally warmed up to her. The biggest, and most rewarding, challenge by far, was writing Preboot Rokk and making him accountable for his horrible actions during the Bronze Age; I feel like I accomplished what I set out to do, and more; that said, I still dislike Rokk intensely and hope never to have to write him again. Dirk was a character I used to loathe because Levitz made him such a one-dimensional pig, but after writing him a few times and gaining a better understanding of him, warts and all, I think he's okay. The biggest challenge before me that I haven't taken yet is trying to write Val, for the same reason I hate the Morrison JLA Batman -- he's just so damned perfect to compensate for his lack of super-powers.

The one lineup I have created from scratch is the one for Supergirl's Legion, and I think it's very telling:

Supergirl
Kinetix
XS
Brainiac 5
Leviathan
Apparition
Shrinking Violet
Wildfire
Kid Quantum
Spark

Lots of gals, and only a few guys, none of whom fit the Alpha Male stereotype. If I do continue Supergirl's Legion, I plan to bring in Umbra (of course), Gates, Quislet, and Tellus.

I also keep the lineup from getting to big by having Luornu, Reep/Rene Junior, Nura, Mysa, and Imra as supporting characters rather than actual Legionnaires. In addition, I used Andromeda as an out-and-out villainess, and I was also planning to bring in Garth as Mekt's partner in villainy; they'd call themselves the Lords of Light (because I am shameless in my use of references to 80s TV cartoons.) Another storyline I had planned for Supergirl's Legion involved introducing my version of the Workforce, led by Kent Shakespeare, who would be exposed as a Miraclo-popping fraud, and including Inferno (minus the homicidal tendencies), Evolvo, and Spider-Girl, all of whom would eventually join the Legion.

As for original characters, well, you never know. Time will tell.


Read LEGIONS OF 7 WORLDS in the Bits forum:

Retroboot (Earth-7.5) Arc 1 (COMPLETED)

Retroboot (Earth-7.5) Arc 2 (WORK IN PROGRESS)

"Don't look for role models, girls, BE the role model."

- Legion World member HARBINGER
Re: How Do You Decide on Your Legion lineups?
Abin Quank #872367 10/13/15 02:30 PM
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Hi there, this is really interesting to read as I don't think I have any hard and fast rules when I'm putting together a story, I just tend to know who's needed (searching for Laurels dad then she's got to be in it, we need a tracker so Gahaji is called up, Brin and her are kind of a couple so he'd be involved, Kinetix is sniffing round the Ruby of Life so she'll follow Mwindaji, and we haven't seen Lu in a while and it'll be interesting to figure out her relationship with each, so that's that team.... Umm space pirates? well Jan of course, and then....) So it's often just whoever feels right. There has been a couple of exceptions, like I wanted Thunder and Sun Boy to talk so I manufactured a story just to have them together sussing each other out. Then I also had a team composed entirely of Orange Legionnaires just for a hoot, and that worked out well I feel.

As for enjoying or not the characters in Canon, well I hated Harmonia in the comic though grew to really like writing her, same with Dirk. I've struggled really bad with Brek, Rokk and also Jaqcues, though making Daniel slightly autistic and friends with Glorith was a great idea that I've ran and ran with, much to the benefit of the story I think.

I try not to use the same characters in every storyline and plan out characters growths and development into each arc, sometimes obviously and sometimes as a way to plant a seed for something further down the line. Sometimes it works though not always, and I'm fine with that and hope that whoever reads my tales is too.

It's my belief that any creative endeavour starts to lose its vitality if it's over-thought out. With that in mind if I have a silly idea (hey, Orange legionnaires against a world!) I just let it happen and hope for the best.

I chose to introduce new characters because I didn't want to be merely a nostalgia fiend, as much fun as it is, and the Legion is the one group that it's okay to grow to huge proportions. It's okay to introduce a talking Tiggerram and a swarm of sentient stones, alongside the perfect telepathic teammate and a karate kid legacy as its the one place you'll ever see them together.

Ultimately writing is escapism for me, like everyone else I need to let off steam from time to time so imagining 4000 star bandits getting their asses handed to them in a space battle is a good way to do, or so I've found.

My advice, two words: have fun!


Legion Worlds NINE - wait, there's even more ongoing amazing adventures? Yup, and you'll only find them in the Bits o' Legionnaire Business Forum.
Re: How Do You Decide on Your Legion lineups?
Abin Quank #872373 10/13/15 03:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Harbinger
It's my belief that any creative endeavour starts to lose its vitality if it's over-thought out.


Thank you! I'm really glad you said that, Harbi, because I have been guilty of that over and over (at last, the reason for so many unfinished Fickles fanfics revealed)! With my current (non-Legion) fanfic project, I'm taking a much more easy-going approach which, so far, has paid off quite nicely.

Originally Posted by Harbinger
My advice, two words: have fun!


THIS!

Cheers, Harbi. cheers


Read LEGIONS OF 7 WORLDS in the Bits forum:

Retroboot (Earth-7.5) Arc 1 (COMPLETED)

Retroboot (Earth-7.5) Arc 2 (WORK IN PROGRESS)

"Don't look for role models, girls, BE the role model."

- Legion World member HARBINGER
Re: How Do You Decide on Your Legion lineups?
Fanfic Lady #872394 10/13/15 08:37 PM
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Hi Fanfie and Harbi, really happy to see you both chiming in too!

I agree re synergy, and that it helps to like a character. But I too have had some success with characters I dislike. I find that what's most important is "knowing" the character.

(Thanks too for sharing your future plans for Supergirl's Legion, Fanfie. I love your lineup, devoid of alpha males. (I dislike the super-alpha males which is why Threeboot Jo is the Legionnaire I hate most!).

The two points that Fanfie cited from Harbi's post are my two key takeaways too!

Originally Posted by Harbinger
It's my belief that any creative endeavour starts to lose its vitality if it's over-thought out.


Originally Posted by Harbinger
My advice, two words: have fun!

[/quote]

I also loved Harbi's insights into how to pick characters for a storyline or team. That kind of planning makes juggling an enormous cast of dozens much easier.

Re: How Do You Decide on Your Legion lineups?
Abin Quank #872398 10/13/15 09:12 PM
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During my time in Arkham the hospital this year, I filled notebooks with crummy sketches and pages and pages of the continuing adventures of Rainbow Girl.

Which I am slowly transcribing into electronic files, and gradually uploading into Legion World. I expect it will run about 20 chapters, and 100,000 words. Or more.

(As I had no internet access while committed recuperating, and no control over what was on television, and spending most of the time in bed… Dori was my consolation, escape valve, entertainment and creative outlet.)

My point—and I do have one—is that although the Adventures of Rainbow Girl focuses on a single character, she does wander around the Legion Universe and meets, according to my last count, over one hundred established Legion characters, and another one hundred new characters of my own invention. Not that I was trying to include two hundred characters in the story, but I wanted Dori to explore the Universe, and they just showed up.

Maybe sometime I’ll take a week or two break from mere transcribing and post a Who’s Who in the Earth-K paracosm. Maybe not.

Of course, we are not writing for publication here, so I cannot argue with ‘have fun’, and ‘don’t overthink’.

Otherwise, I would quote the Masters who say ‘writing is 10% inspiration, and 90% editing’; ‘writing is a job, just like any other job—you have to work at it’; ‘I can’t wait to write the synopsis and query letter for my book, said no author, ever’; and ‘kill your darlings’.

And may I say, I admire every single person who posts artwork here, a talent which I sorely lack. What is the word for 'tone-deaf', except drawing, rather than singing?


“I'm not crazy about reality, but it's still the only place to get a decent meal.” -- Groucho Marx
Re: How Do You Decide on Your Legion lineups?
Klar Ken T5477 #872402 10/13/15 10:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Klar Ken T5477


Otherwise, I would quote the Masters who say ‘writing is 10% inspiration, and 90% editing’; ‘writing is a job, just like any other job—you have to work at it’; ‘I can’t wait to write the synopsis and query letter for my book, said no author, ever’; and ‘kill your darlings’.



That's one reason why I haven't killed anyone in my stories yet smile Well, except for the four White Triangle Daxamite terrorists who went insane after taking anti-lead serum, I had them die...

Re: How Do You Decide on Your Legion lineups?
Abin Quank #872405 10/14/15 01:13 AM
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I've done a little professional writing, and Klar is spot on with all of this XD, but it's gotta be balanced with Harbinger and Fanfic Lady's feelings on fun, or Trepanning starts looking like a reaaaaal attractive option wink

And like a total dork, I forgot to list out my Legion as was done earlier, and I apologize! My Legion has been breaking down in the outlines as falling into a few 'stages' of membership, and since I like my rosters like I like my coffee pot (full to bursting!), I'll break it down that way for ease!


Original Twelve

Cosmic Boy - Rokk Krinn of Braal
Saturn Girl - Imra Ardeen of Titan
Lightning Lad - Garth Ranzz of Winath
Triplicate Teen - Luornu Durgo of Carggg
Phantom Girl - Tinya Wazzo of Bgztl
Atom Girl - Salu 'Violet' Digby of Imsk
Matter-Eater Lad - Tenzil Kem of Bismoll
Colossal Boy - Gim Allon of Mars
Kid Quantum - Jazmin Cullen of Xanthu
Weather Boy - Myke Chypurz of Luna
Chameleon Kid - Reep Daggle of Durla
Bouncing Boy - Chuck Taine of Earth


The Brande Meta-Institute

Brainiac 5 - Querl Dox of Colu
Invisible Kid - Lyle Norg of Earth
Superlass - Mona Zor-El of NeoKandor
Superlad - Dev-Em of NeoKandor
Anti-Matter Lad - Drake Burroughs of Luna
Chemical Queen - Condo Arlik of Phlon
Decibel Kid - Myke-4 Astor of Calish-Aetia


Draftees

Animal Lad - Ilshu Nor of Lallor
Jenni Quik - Jenni Ognats of Aarok
Galaxy Girl - Shikari Dawnstar of Thanagarrus
Kinetic Kid - Zoe Saugin of Aleph
Reflecto - Stig Ah of Rimbor
Power Lass - Laurel Gand of Daxam
Nemesis Kid - Hart Druiter of Myar
Star Boy - Thom Kallor of Xanthu
Calorie Queen - Taryn Loy of Bismoll
Sensor - Jeka Wynzorr of Orando
Dream Girl - Nura Schappin of Naltor
Gates - Ti'julk Mr'asz of Vyrga


Try-Outs

Princess Projectra - Wilimena Morgana Daergina Annaxandra Projectra Velorya Vauxhall of Gemworld
Sound Sorcerer - Tyroc Stewart of Marzal
Solar Boy - Dirk Morgna of Earth
Light Lass - Ayla Ranzz of Winath
Shadow Lass - Tasmia Mallor of Talok-VII
Karate Kid - Val Armorr of Earth
Automatic Lad - 1-45ENG 'Babbage' of Robotica


Joined Independently

Fortress Lass - Tress Dox of Legion Headquarters
Element Lad - Jan Arrah of Trom
Ultra Boy - Jo Nah of Rimbor
Timber Wolf - Brin Londo of Zuun
Stone Boy - Blok of Dryad
Cloud King - Jacques Foccart of Earth
Polar Boy - Brek Bannin of Tharr
White Witch - Mysa Nal of Tharn
Ferrous Lad - Duglas Nori of Pasnic


The Legion of Takron-Galtos

Ms. Medusa - Sussa Paka of Hardcore Station
Radiation Roy - Roy Travich of Dracksler
Power Ring - Rond Vidar of Earth.


"I weighed the odds of this working versus the odds I was doing something incredibly stupid and, well, I did it anyway,"

- Crow T. Robot
Re: How Do You Decide on Your Legion lineups?
Abin Quank #872410 10/14/15 02:33 AM
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Cool lineup! Looks full to brimming with all sorts of cool personalities.

More and more I'm wishing I had bumped Tenzil up to active status, but I think I'll do that in my next fanfic Volume... I can think of some good stories for getting there...

Re: How Do You Decide on Your Legion lineups?
Abin Quank #872430 10/14/15 09:45 AM
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I'd always recommend Tenzil as a Legionnaire smile He and Chuck and Luornu and Nura sort of embody the cool weirdness of the Legion in a lot of ways, because their powers take a lot of thought but can really be impressive, and they illustrate the "Everyone has something to contribute, anyone can be a hero" philosophy that I think is really a core tenant of the Legion.


"I weighed the odds of this working versus the odds I was doing something incredibly stupid and, well, I did it anyway,"

- Crow T. Robot
Re: How Do You Decide on Your Legion lineups?
Invisible Brainiac #872456 10/14/15 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Invisible Brainiac
Originally Posted by Klar Ken T5477


Otherwise, I would quote the Masters who say ‘writing is 10% inspiration, and 90% editing’; ‘writing is a job, just like any other job—you have to work at it’; ‘I can’t wait to write the synopsis and query letter for my book, said no author, ever’; and ‘kill your darlings’.



That's one reason why I haven't killed anyone in my stories yet smile Well, except for the four White Triangle Daxamite terrorists who went insane after taking anti-lead serum, I had them die...




And that's the reason I have... As much as I absolutely stand by the "have fun" philosophy of fan fic writing I do think you get more enjoyment from it when you work at it, especially if the original idea is ridiculous (let's get all the legionnaires with Orange skin and have them battle a cannibalistic alien race with reality warping abilities on a distant world - a ridiculous idea and a (hopefully) good outcome after plotting it out).

You are right Klar, writing is work, but then so is playing a piano or using a paint brush, and from my experience creativity flows better if you enjoy the action of realising it . I think we are saying the same things just from a different angle. Writing a story takes time and effort, so I suggest you try to enjoy it.

Editing is horrible though.

smile


Legion Worlds NINE - wait, there's even more ongoing amazing adventures? Yup, and you'll only find them in the Bits o' Legionnaire Business Forum.
Re: How Do You Decide on Your Legion lineups?
Abin Quank #872457 10/14/15 03:58 PM
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Oh, and even my stick figures look disfigured so anyone who can draw deserves to be canonized. At the very least!

Last edited by Harbinger; 10/14/15 04:05 PM.

Legion Worlds NINE - wait, there's even more ongoing amazing adventures? Yup, and you'll only find them in the Bits o' Legionnaire Business Forum.
Re: How Do You Decide on Your Legion lineups?
Abin Quank #872480 10/14/15 05:39 PM
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I think we are all in agreement then. Writing, even for "fun" or as a hobby, is hard work. But we have to be sure we enjoy the process, because if we overthink the results will be worse.

I can't draw worth a darn too though Ibdid make these cute devil and vampire figures that I put on any cards I give Blaze...

Re: How Do You Decide on Your Legion lineups?
Abin Quank #872486 10/14/15 05:50 PM
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I can't draw to save my life, so I love seeing the artwork here. I really wish more artists would post their work though. You're all so talented!


Keep up with what I've been watching lately!

"Where have you gone, Joe DiMaggio? Our nation turns its lonely eyes to you."
Re: How Do You Decide on Your Legion lineups?
Abin Quank #872564 10/15/15 07:18 AM
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This is a great topic, thanks IB! All of us who maintain a regular series here have really different writing styles and different strengths so I love reading stuff like this that gives some insight into the way writers think smile

I started writing my own fic as an exercise in discipline so that I could apply that to writing my own original comic...hasn't quite worked out that way but my Legion has taken on enough of a life in my imagination that I am more than happy just writing their adventures and seeing how they grow. I picked the team straight after Legion of 3 Worlds (without XS & Gates because as much as I love them it made no sense to me they'd leave their own team behind), and kicked this whole thing off by introducing Infectious Lass to the team because it drove me crazy that DC had referred to her as a member of the team when we'd never seen it.

I have had a few roster changes since then, but no really dramatic shake-ups. For the most part anyone I've added are characters I feel have been around long enough to deserve a place on the team (eg the Subs or Nightwind) or more obscure characters who I felt were ripe for exploration (eg Gas Girl, Dragonmage, Kid Computo). Even the original characters I've introduced to the team have pretty strong ties to Legion lore. I have loads of ideas for completely original characters but for some reason I prefer to keep these for supporting characters or bad guys. I guess with 5YL being my favourite Legion era I'm kind of inspired to see where the classic Legion characters develop when they're given free reign to evolve.

Every character I've had leave the team has been plot or characterisation-driven. I would have loved to keep Sensor Girl and Shadow Lad for example, but their stories led to them not being here for now. I don't really build the team in meta terms very much, I just kind of let the characters write their own stories in my head. For the same reason, as much as I'd love to have Saturn Girl & Lightning Lad be more active they won't really let me do it wink

One common theme I've noticed a lot of people have brought up is the challenge of writing characters you don't like; I definitely subscribe to this. I traditionally haven't really liked Dawnstar or Timber Wolf but I've forced myself to write them both, and surprisingly I feel like I have a really good handle on them.


Re: How Do You Decide on Your Legion lineups?
Abin Quank #872577 10/15/15 08:08 AM
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Glad you like the topic raz and happy you chimed in, I think you have the longest running series of all of us so curious how you plot out your lineups.

I think you and I agree on the "let characters write their own stories" thing, which is why I myself had to drop Dragonmage and Tenzil from my active lineup and very nearly Dirk. Good thing though is that it does not close the door, only means there are a few more detours needed wink

I think among us all, Harbinger is the one with the most original Legionnaires (Backlash, Starkling, Dkyun Mu, Thirteen, the newest Karate Kid...) I have the least as I am not that good at creating new ones plus there are so many existing characters I want to use more.

Re: How Do You Decide on Your Legion lineups?
Abin Quank #872609 10/15/15 02:29 PM
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Thanks IB for the topic!

Everyone makes so many valid points such as fun and hard work are both parts of the creative process.

As for how i personally handle my line up choice at first it was fairly easy. I started out with the Legion just after LO3WS and then once they entered U248 they split into two factions. This i would say was still a pretty easy choice. But Like Raz mentioned I also let the characters live in my head and let their story follow where the characters feel the most natural.
My Subterfuge team came together out of the people who would be best suited to living on the lamb so to speak. Invisible Kid,
Dreamer,Gear,Sensor, Chameleon have all been members of the Espionage squad at one time or another so they were all natural choices. Also Dreamer needed to wait for Starboy to leave the hospital. Cosmic Boy was a last minuet addition for this team because i thought a founder should be with this team and he would be the one to make that sacrifice. M'onel was about raw power, as was Wildfire. Karate Kid and Starboy both stayed because I wanted to explore them more outside of the Cadet setting.

And with the Cadets they all just seemed like the types who would volunteer and wanted a good fight, like Ultra Boy.

Once that split happened it now came down to who i wanted to see work with whom. An example is Wildfire and Cos. In the postboot i never really saw them on a mission or interact. I always like seeing different characters that never interacted have to and that's the joy with the Legion, so many combinations to work with.

After personality for me comes power type/ability which can be influenced my mission type. Sometimes i just want to try and work on my handle on how i write their power. Gear is hard for me to write and so in most of his scenes i always try to have him use his power somehow.

Also because i'm working in an alternate reality, where alot of my characters have a counter parts in other realities this gives me both the fun and hard task of making these characters stand out, weather they are an homage or completely different than any other version. But i also don't have a lot of reference from the little i researched. So i sometimes feel like i'm creating new characters.


Lastly with the Cadet Program i don't feel limited at all at the moment, so its becoming a harder process to define whom i'll be writing.

I'm also in need of potential cadets as my Alpha cadets number in the 50's and i only have 37 of the 50.



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Re: How Do You Decide on Your Legion lineups?
Omni #872637 10/16/15 01:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Harbinger
Oh, and even my stick figures look disfigured so anyone who can draw deserves to be canonized. At the very least!


Originally Posted by Invisible Brainiac
I think we are all in agreement then. Writing, even for "fun" or as a hobby, is hard work. But we have to be sure we enjoy the process, because if we overthink the results will be worse.

I can't draw worth a darn too though Ibdid make these cute devil and vampire figures that I put on any cards I give Blaze...


Originally Posted by Nostalgia Lad
I can't draw to save my life, so I love seeing the artwork here. I really wish more artists would post their work though. You're all so talented!


I hear ya'll on having innate artistic talent and envying those that have it: Bout the only artistic talent I got is futzing around with Microheroes, but it helps give me a rough idea of what I'm going for. And thankfully I know a lot of artistic buddies I can commission.

Originally Posted by Omni
I'm also in need of potential cadets as my Alpha cadets number in the 50's and i only have 37 of the 50.


Dude I love the Cadets; ya'll were talkin about Original Characters earlier and I don't have too many altogether OCs, but I do love picking up pieces of DC/Legion Lore and putting them together to make something new that could really be fun in the 30th Century, and a lot of that ended up in the Cadets I'm working on (Bizzaro Lass and Flynt Brojj as Starro Boy are the two best examples I can think up off the top of my head).


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Re: How Do You Decide on Your Legion lineups?
Abin Quank #872641 10/16/15 03:11 AM
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Love reading all these insights! And I agree that the Academy and Cadets give a good opportunity to bring in so many characters that can be developed as potential future Legionnaires.

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Abin Quank #872642 10/16/15 04:23 AM
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The academy and the cadets is an inspired idea as it gives us the opportunity to se the potential Legionnaire from the beginning of their career, their relationships and friendships (and rivalries) build up while keeping it all within a controlled environment so hats off to you Omni for it.

One thing I forgot to mention is that I try to keep a mental tally of who I've used recently so I don't repeat them too often, which is difficult to do as there are definite favourites that shout their stories to me ar louder than others. To get around this I tried using a random story generator - I wrote twelve potential plots on paper, scrunched them up, decided which legionnaire was going to be used and then picked a random plot, but I didn't like the results as i had real problems shoehorning the characters into the plotblines so ignored it and went ahead and used my original ideas anyway ... Oh well sometimes hard work really is not worth the effort smile


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Re: How Do You Decide on Your Legion lineups?
Abin Quank #872643 10/16/15 04:40 AM
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I use a checklist too, to make sure everybody gets his/her/its time in the spotlight. I'm not meticulous enough to really make life-changing or earth-shaking changes to each but I do try to explore each character's background and personalities more.

Re: How Do You Decide on Your Legion lineups?
Omni #872661 10/16/15 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Omni


I'm also in need of potential cadets as my Alpha cadets number in the 50's and i only have 37 of the 50.



Are you asking for suggestions for new characters?

Heroes of Other Worlds

... and I personally have dozens of characters that I could not possibly write.


“I'm not crazy about reality, but it's still the only place to get a decent meal.” -- Groucho Marx
Re: How Do You Decide on Your Legion lineups?
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Omni, I've got a _huge_ cadet team planned (I wanted to sort of reflect shades of the Threeboot Youth Movement, and for that you need numbers like woah) and one of the ways I went about filling the ranks (after Cadets/Known heroes of the 30th/Secondaries I liked/etc) was find a species or planet not represented in the Legion and work from what was known about them (i.e. a Red Saturnian, or an Atlantean, or member a rep from wherever the Amazons are by the 30th Century) and if you start fiddling with what power you want for them, combining that with their planet/species of origin may give you a good starting point for characterization!


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Re: How Do You Decide on Your Legion lineups?
Klar Ken T5477 #872761 10/17/15 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Klar Ken T5477
Originally Posted by Omni


I'm also in need of potential cadets as my Alpha cadets number in the 50's and i only have 37 of the 50.



Are you asking for suggestions for new characters?

Heroes of Other Worlds

... and I personally have dozens of characters that I could not possibly write.


Yes i was. i got distracted while posting and didn't phrase that right.
Thanks Klar! i totally forgot about that thread and any you want to toss my way and let me look at would be greatly appreciated.

And thanks Not-So-Bad-Lad. those are some good ideas to help come up with some more OC's.

I'm trying to keep my cadet program diverse. So between your suggestions and Klar's reminder of the thread for Heroes of other worlds i may bring some new ideas.

IB and Harbi, having a check list is a really great idea for keeping track of how often you use characters.


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Re: How Do You Decide on Your Legion lineups?
Omni #872768 10/17/15 04:02 PM
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Omni, also take a look at these alternate hero groups:

1) The Silver-Age Wanderers
2) L.E.G.I.O.N. and R.E.B.E.L.S.
3) The Omega Men
4) Amethyst and the Mages of GemWorld
5) The Space Canine Patrol Agents. Yes, I mean really. Stop laughing. I'm serious.


“I'm not crazy about reality, but it's still the only place to get a decent meal.” -- Groucho Marx
Re: How Do You Decide on Your Legion lineups?
Abin Quank #872772 10/17/15 04:22 PM
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Good call, Klar!

Also, Omni, you could check out the obscure Knights of the Galaxy, said in some of their appearances to share a century with the Legion. Also, on diversity in the Cadets: The Green Lanterns helped me wwith a lot of alien races I'll be using (I got a Xundarian girl that spins! Woo!), and also a lot of the early Justice League baddies like Kanjar Ro and Despero come from planets that would/could still be around in the 30th Century!


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Re: How Do You Decide on Your Legion lineups?
Abin Quank #872780 10/17/15 05:39 PM
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I think the Green Lantern Corps would be a good starting point as well. Lots of amazing alien races out there. Same with the other Corps (Red, Blue, Sinestro Corps, Star Sapphires...)

Re: How Do You Decide on Your Legion lineups?
Abin Quank #873241 10/21/15 11:47 PM
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Thanks everyone for the suggestions i'll look into all of them. I did find one already who maybe coming into play soon.

Since IB was kind enough to start off this discussion on how we choose our line ups i thought maybe i could pose another.

I've been struggling with coming up with missions for my teams and i was wondering how do all of you come up with mission ideas?

Do you think about politics of the team? Politics of the mission and how it will affect the u.p. and the legion.
What demonstrates powers well?



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Re: How Do You Decide on Your Legion lineups?
Abin Quank #873245 10/22/15 12:38 AM
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Thanks for adding another discussion point, Omni. I'm glad we're all sharing ideas on how we develop our own stories.

As of now my fanfic Volumes have had a defined beginning, middle and end (how to gather the scattered Legion, recreate their universe, and have the Legion retake Legion World) so I haven't had to think about mission ideas yet. Although, when breaking down the "retake LW from the bad guy's army" story into bite-size chunks, my main criterion was how to break my massive (40-plus!) team into smaller groups and show off both powers and personalities.

I find though that it's not necessary to really think about showcasing powers, as it isn't all that hard to do with any given mission. When thinking of new missions/cases for my Volume 4, I mostly went with loose ends or elements from the Postboot canon or that I introduced in earlier volumes, and then thought about how I could take them forward. Other ideas I thought of are whimsical and tie into my own real-life experiences.

In the end I think it's about stepping back and just looking at the forest rather than the trees, and seeing what ideas pop up. I find that picking who goes on missions is a more "scientific"/checklist type exercise than thinking of what missions to come up with.

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Abin Quank #873246 10/22/15 06:56 AM
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Another great topic! Fab!

IB uses a great analogy there about stepping back and focussing on the forest not just the trees.

Usually I have a general master plot for each arc, for instance I created the Shadowmancer as a new villain, so thought about his situation: how does he get his victims, if he's been around for centuries does he have supporters, how will the Legions story interact with his? As it involved pirates I knew Jan had to be in there, and I needed two uniques so Dawny and Drake were in, also the espionage squad needed something to do so Tinya was in, then I wanted a small moment planned between Doug and Troy to show their personalities so that a them in, and I wanted Wonder Woman to kick ass so that was the initial team. With my team being so expanded it was the perfect opportunity to have a gaggle of underused others join in, so that was my initial plotting for that storyline in one paragraph. Oh and Gazelle really needed to fight ninjas, don't ask why as I don't know, but I just knew it was overdue.

In LW4 I'll be introducing a brand new team of villains, a nasty war and a mystery to be solved, as well as the usual random interpersonal moments to keep the characters moving forward. I've plotted our the first arc fully and have the second part fairly well thought through. One of the opening scenes, between Harmonia and Backlash was written over a year ago but haven't had the opportunity to use it until now. it dovetails nicely though so I tweaked it a little to fit in.

I try not to repeat basic stories and shift focus from action to mystery to interpersonal moments quite quickly so it keeps the arcs fresh for the reader.

As for how do I come up with the big ideas? Sometimes it's the characters themselves, there's a biggy coming in LW4 that will surprise you (i hope), or the story idea comes from a general idea - again in LW4 there's a planetary war to stop so that was the starting point, or it could be I want to work with certain characters so figure out a way they can get together. Sometimes it's a silly idea and it entertains me so I run with it - Orange legionnaires against the world and also a space Dragon trying to mate with a space factory, both perfect examples. I also try to sabotage the usual writing trope, for instance they team all get along with each other... Ummm no. Not at all. Oh kinetix is power hungry.... Nope, actually she's being helpful... Etc.

from my experience you shouldnt throw away ideas just because you can't use it right now as it will find a home eventually if you wait.

And play, creativity grows when you release the urge to nail it down. Don't be scared of being silly, don't deny the most outrageous idea. They will keep you going as you have the work to do writing them out properly.


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Re: How Do You Decide on Your Legion lineups?
Abin Quank #873247 10/22/15 07:12 AM
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Harbi, you said it so well! A lot of my ideas came to me when I was actually writing the posts - bits like Brek's crush on Zoe and Ferro's crush on Mentalla, for example.

Others came to me suddenly when plotting, like when I decided to give Condo his Chemical King powers instead of Element Lad's transmutation, then I thought, what a shame we no longer have a transmuter... but I can't resurrect Element Lad as he was too far gone as the Progenitor... then BAM! Wait, Monstress died in a way that I can bring her back like how Garth was brought back, AND she retained her personality at the end.

Another is Kono, I wasn't planning to use her at all in my Volume 4 then I realized how much I was harping on and on about Dragonmage not joining the Legion because of what happened to Gil'd and Dryad, then I realized that Sklar was destroyed too so what must Kono feel about that... then boom! (And I mention Gil'd and Dryad in the same sentence, that's significant, hint hint).

So Harbi is right, never throw away an idea but write it down and who knows, an opportunity to use it may come in!

This is so much fun, I love sharing ideas and reading all of yours. As Harbi said, what a wonderful topic, Omni!

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Abin Quank #873302 10/22/15 04:00 PM
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Something else else I meant to add is despite plotting out stories before I write them I always give myself room to adapt as the characters all vie for attention so there's likely to be parts that take detours before getting to the punch line.its fun to see what comes out of these flashes of inspiration, as IB so rightly said above, you can be writing a part that you know exactly what's happening and suddenly a character speaks up and you're off on a tangent. IB returning Candi as Element Lass was one such inspired intervention, and im sure you have had a few moments like that too, we all probably have, tthough a tip is don't post these parts until you know where they're going or you'll be stuck with a loose end that'll nag away at you. I've written out a start of a storyline that is really dramatic but I don't know where to take it next so I'll just sit on it, who know maybe that'll be the arc for LW5.

Something else else I've learned from reading other stories here is not to spell everything outright from the start, allow moments, especially the interpersonal ones, to have the space to grow. A prime example is the way Raz writes Comet Queen and Quislets friendship, he's never outright said they are friends but the relationship is there to be enjoyed when he posts it.

But to get back to the initial question, where do plot ideas come from, well look around you - sadly disasters and war, terrorism, ecological mishaps, accidents and general criminal and corrupt behaviour are there to be explored. If you can marry an idea with a long standing characters established story then all the better.

Good luck Omni, you already write brilliant tales, hopefullythe suggestions we can come up with can help you carry on sharing them with us.



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Re: How Do You Decide on Your Legion lineups?
Abin Quank #873344 10/23/15 06:44 AM
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I think pretty much all of my plot ideas come from wanting to use specific characters, either Legionnaires or bad guys...looking at their motivations and tapping stuff from their background which hasn't been explored a lot.

Good example is the recent adventure with Fearstorm. I wanted to use Fearstorm again, I have been wanting to touch on Infectious Lass's feelings about Diamond Damsel, I wanted to show off Blok's new enhancements and I wanted to do something with Quislet. The fun part is putting it all together as a coherent bunch of ideas.

I have heaps of storylines that I never have time to get through....there are individual storylines with Tellus and Wildfire I really wanna do soon, I want to touch base with some of the ex-Legionnaires we've not seen for a while, and somewhere in the back of my head Mordru is trying to get an epic storyline happening too. For me, I find that letting the characters kind of dictate where they want to go is the easiest way for me to plot.

I think Harbinger had a really good point too with letting characters have some space to grow in between massive events (and thanks for using Grava & Quislet as examples, I like those two!)...I kind of think about what characters would naturally be drawn to one another (or against one another) and that helps with putting everything together too even if it's not something which is outright driving a story a lot of the time. A fun thing I like to do is sit down with my cast and just think about who'd have a better friendship with whom, and which characters would have weird stuff in common. smile

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Great prompt!

I agree a lot with what ya'll have said: sometimes (like Harbinger with the "Gazelle must fight Ninjas") there is some stuff that just sounds too awesome not to have: I had a note a scribbled down at some point that just said "Chuck and Tenzil fight a Daxamite and WIN." and I knew it had to go somewhere.

And IB raises a great point with Element Lad/Monstress: Sometimes you've got the start of something, but you need that other piece to pop up to make it perfect.

Sometimes like Raz says you just shuffle together a lot of parts that you know you wanna hit! And I gotta agree that you _never_ throw an idea out, cause who knows where it'll work, you know?

What works best for me is scaffolding: I know, more or less, the 'arc' of my Legion from their founding through to their second big class of cadets. There's big tent poles in the middle that I know I want to hit in some form or fashion (like the betrayal of the team by Superlad and the rise of Darkcide) and knowing I want to hit these helps me keep the plot moving forwards but also gives me enough room to be surprised at what shakes out that was not part of the plan whatsoever (Brek has a crush on Jenni, she doesn't reciprocate, and he moves on juuuuust in time for her to realize she wants him). And the big events can of course move and change and shift as you go!

On the missions themselves: I like to try and figure out who was sitting around the HQ at the time, and could respond, and one of the coolest things about the Legion are their size: you could have three or four 'missions' going at any given time and still have Legionnaires to spare! One way I've found that helps me think of missions is what's happened in the story so far and try and contemplate how that would affect the galaxy at large. For example: McCauley is made nervous by the Legionnaires mandate and how it could expose some of his shadier practices, so he founds the Workforce. The problem is he starts with a bunch of superpowered thugs like Flare and Caress he hired just because he found them attractive (cause he's a schmuck). Now they decide they don't just want to sit around waiting to try out their skills around the Legion, so the Workforce decides to stage an Emergency on one of McCauley's factory-planets and the Legionnaires of course respond, leading to a scrap between the two teams.


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Re: How Do You Decide on Your Legion lineups?
Not-So-Bad Lad #873397 10/23/15 11:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Not-So-Bad Lad


What works best for me is scaffolding: I know, more or less, the 'arc' of my Legion from their founding through to their second big class of cadets. There's big tent poles in the middle that I know I want to hit in some form or fashion (like the betrayal of the team by Superlad and the rise of Darkcide) and knowing I want to hit these helps me keep the plot moving forwards but also gives me enough room to be surprised at what shakes out that was not part of the plan whatsoever (Brek has a crush on Jenni, she doesn't reciprocate, and he moves on juuuuust in time for her to realize she wants him). And the big events can of course move and change and shift as you go!


THIS. This is what helped me plot out and structure my Volumes 1-3, and this is how I'm plotting my Volume 4 too! A lot of the details and smaller events though just kind of come out as I'm writing.

Re: How Do You Decide on Your Legion lineups?
Abin Quank #873574 10/25/15 09:29 AM
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Agreed!

And LOVE the name Darkcide! Can't wait to read your stories NSBL


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Re: How Do You Decide on Your Legion lineups?
Abin Quank #873583 10/25/15 09:36 AM
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Thank ya'll so much! And I'm working on the intro now (The Legion forms when their first dozen members repel basically a small army of Mercs from UP HQ) and intros _terrify_ me cause I'm so worried about mucking them up, so it's taking longer than I'd like.

One question I'd like to ask everyone about is Romance: It's a big part of Legion Lore, and how do ya'll go about figuring out how it shakes out in your stories? I just read IB's Ferro starting to notice Mentalla, for example: do you all feel it just happens organically as you write out the characters, or is it something you all feel you need to plan out beforehand?


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Abin Quank #873588 10/25/15 09:50 AM
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Most of my romances came about through inspiration. Ferro noticing Mentalla came about because I had Mentalla take control of his body, and then had them paired up on one of the subteams. Ferro used to have a crush on Violet but never acted on it, so that opened the door.

Insect Queen and Particon was inspired by their (undocumented) time together as Amazers, but more because when I was writing them I found they had such synergy.

Brek's crush on Zoe was a sudden dash of inspiration that started when I had them working together to create a shield. I thought about how their personalities would mesh.

M'Onel and Shvaughn came about because of her admiration for him, and I figured out she would be smart enough to figure out his identity as Valor. The real seed was their scene in Legion Worlds 1 where there was a very mild hint of flirtation.

So it is really a combination of their pasts (established canon or otherwise), how I feel they will mesh as a couple, and sudden bursts of inspiration.

Re: How Do You Decide on Your Legion lineups?
Abin Quank #873591 10/25/15 09:55 AM
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PS: looking forward to your stories! Sounds like you have a large and exciting team

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Abin Quank #873610 10/25/15 10:34 AM
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Romance, and the flip side of antipathy are dictated by the characters themselves I find. Brin and Laurel Kent made perfect sense, he's trying hard to be an alpha male but is too sensitive to ever pull it off while she's all front and dreadful insecurity underneath - a perfect match I thought. Several others just wrote themselves. Ultimately these are a group of late teen and early twenty something athletes so I imagine they'll be at it like rabbits given half a chance. Just saying...

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Defintiely. They're the 'teenagers' of their era-a socially liberal, progressive/permissive era more often than not, from what I can tell-and a lot of them physically empowered, and thrust into positions not only of authority as Law Enforcement, but also dangerous predicaments where they never really know if they're coming home. They almost certainly are going at it whenever given half the chance wink


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Re: How Do You Decide on Your Legion lineups?
Abin Quank #873675 10/25/15 11:24 AM
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Life is short, and sadly some Legionnaire lives are pretty short too smile I like how Harbi put it - most of them just wrote themselves!

Re: How Do You Decide on Your Legion lineups?
Invisible Brainiac #873772 10/26/15 01:33 AM
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Romance! Some of my romances are callouts to bits of Legion lore that I like....I always thought Infectious Lass & Jacques were cute in the 5YL Legion for example, and I don't think I can see a situation where I'd ever want to break up one of the classic couples permanently either...I wrote a subplot with Chuck and Lu where there was some tension for a bit but I never would have considered splitting them up, and I made a point of getting Cosmic Boy & Night Girl back together again in my fic too.

Some of my same-gender couples I have put together just to have some diversity...eg Power Boy & Dev-Em, Vi and Calorie Queen

Some of them write themselves as you guys have mentioned for your own characters....Blok and Diamond Damsel's very slow journey to relationship-dom is something that both characters have just kinda made happen for themselves, and when I came up with Light Lad I didn't see him hooking up with Ayla, but it just kinda made sense as it happened...Supergirl and Shadow Lad getting close is another example of something I never really consciously planned on, but once I saw it happening I kind of liked how their attraction brings to mind a gender-reversed version of Mon-El and Shadow Lass smile

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Invisible Brainiac #873773 10/26/15 02:03 AM
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Raz's point about gender diversity made me think that most of us have taken characters whose sexual orientations were never really revealed, and made them homosexual/bisexual.

With me, there's Particon and Insect Queen (and depending on how you look at it, Lyle and Condo).

NBSL had Jacques.

Harbinger had Kent Shakespeare.

Raz has Calorie Queen and Dev-Em.

Pretty cool, I think.

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Power Boy and Dev-Em...Raz I hadn't thought about that before, but it sounds like it could be cute as hell! And I gotta see your Taryn smile And IB: _anything_ with more Insect Queen is work my time smile

And IB is spot-on with the diversity; one of the coolest things about the Legion is just how diverse it already is,not only in romances, but different races and species as well, and almost all the good fanfics I've read about the team just expand that further!



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Invisible Brainiac #873793 10/26/15 07:42 AM
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Does not hurt that all of us have upwards of 3 dozen members on our teams wink

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Very true XD But the Legion should be that size, you know? They patrol dozens and dozens of _planets_; I personally love the idea of the Legion being able to break down into like four or five more typical superhero teams, or just dogpile on top of threats like Darkseid or Mordru (which illustrates pretty well, I think, just how hard the villains need to be for the Legion: The Fatal Five, for example, have to be worth almost 10 Legionnaires per member!).


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Invisible Brainiac #873801 10/26/15 08:35 AM
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Tharok, the Emerald Empress (and Eye) and Validus are worth way more than 10 Legionnaires each I think. Mano and Persuader maybe not quite as much...

It CAN be hard to think up of threats for the team though. Which would make a nice new topic - how do you guys think of villains, or use existing villains, for your teams? I've only created one new big villain for my team, and maybe one or two minor ones.

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It depends on what the story needs: for example, I wanted Tenzil and Violet alone on a mission to build some romantic tension between the two. A mission where only two Legionnaires would be prudent wouldn't call for say The Archmage obviously XD so I went with Magpie being rumored to steal a Kathoonian NightRose from the United Planets Memorial Garden; that way I got a stakeout for the scenes I wanted, and also enough potential Legion-Power to deal with the thief.

But it doesn't always have to directly be the enemy, and the right Legionnaires for the job are often needed. I was planning on a story where a McCauley representative poisoned a planetary atmosphere, so Element Lad and Chemical Queen and Sound Sorcerer (Tyroc) were the three on point to keep the toxic chemical in check and try and reverse the process while Brin and Dawny and Lyle tried to track down the saboteur.

A lot of times I like finding out what characters will do in a situation sort of organically, without planning the response past just what baddie pops up: I started scribbling down a story where Ferrous Lad and Calorie Queen are arguing about the scope and mandate of the Legion an its ethical ramifications outside a coffee shop, and Mordecai burst out of the road in front of them and they have to hold him back til reinforcements arrive and, while they're bruisers, Mordecai is a tough customer and they have to get creative with keeping him in check.

On the full-team threats, there's some great ones from the comics, and I've designed a few myself and the guideline I've tried to use are the likes of Time Trapper and Darkseid and Mordru: could this one baddie (or small group of baddies) threaten not only the Legion, but the Galaxy if they go unopposed?


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Re: How Do You Decide on Your Legion lineups?
Invisible Brainiac #873948 10/27/15 01:34 AM
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Cool! All great story ideas, and agree on the point that it depends on what the story needs. This is fiction after all, so it should not be too hard to pick or generate the right type of villain for each story.

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Invisible Brainiac #873952 10/27/15 06:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Invisible Brainiac
It CAN be hard to think up of threats for the team though. Which would make a nice new topic - how do you guys think of villains, or use existing villains, for your teams? I've only created one new big villain for my team, and maybe one or two minor ones.


That's where coming up with a smaller sub-team or mission-specific team can work out well, because you don't feel the need for every threat to be someone that can take on the entire team (like Mordru, Darkseid or the Time Trapper), or fielding a Legion of Three Worlds style team of super-villains that includes the entire LSV, Fatal Five, Super-Assassins, Justice League of Earth *and* Universo and Mordru (in which case, ten pages of your fic is going to be spent describing the fight scene!). That sort of thing, IMO, is best saved for the climax of a story.

A smaller group can handle a single villain, or smaller group of villains, and possibly be part of a overarching plot, while leaving room for individual characterization and rival match-ups (Magno Lad vs. Cosmic Boy, or one or more Super-Assassins vs. 'that traitor Blok' or whatever).

As for creating villains, the Legion has tons aching for more development (some old, like Molecule Master or Evillo's long-forgotten daughters, Stilleto and Styx, some new like Immortus, Sun-Killer and Akko), and yet it's also fun to throw your own inventions (like Gladiatrix or Princess Pain or Red Seven) into the mix.

Some day I might even be inspired to use my Dominator or Khund teams from the aliens thread linked earlier as villains. Or other random villains, like the old-school 'theme team' called the Interplanetary Gang I came up with (each with powers related to a planet or phenomena in our solar system, like Asteroid Belle with her telekinetically controlled orbiting rocks, or Saturn Man with his destructive energy rings).



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Re: How Do You Decide on Your Legion lineups?
Invisible Brainiac #873956 10/27/15 06:56 AM
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Yeah, that's what worked for Volume 3 of my fic - I had to juggle about 45 characters, so I split them up into groups of 3 or 4 each (which was extremely difficult by the way!)

It was fun tossing dozens of villains into the mix as well. Kid Quantum II and Star Boy vs. the Emerald Empress; Andromeda and Thunder vs. Validus; XS having a rematch with Tangleweb... Micro vs. Umbra and Timber Wolf... oh the match-ups!

Would love to see your ideas in writing Set. Sounds like a lot of fun villains there.

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Invisible Brainiac #874200 10/28/15 05:19 AM
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Aargh I wrote a massive reply to this and my sprocking computer killed it :[

But basically with villains I have a couple of different approaches....I like using minor villains to develop individual characters if they're not powerful enough to face the whole team; eg I had Orion the Hunter fight Cos and Night Girl so I could get them back together as a couple....I used Terrus to give Dawnstar a bit of spotlight for her power...etc

I like using major villains like the Fatal Five or the Infinite Man to give the whole team a challenge

And with some (usually homemade) villains I have a story in place for them that gets moved along a bit at a time whenever they appear....Bile and the Legion of Substitute Villains rock up every now and then because I like to chronicle his painfully inept journey into villainy. I have long term plans for pretty much all of my Oversight Watch, but as they're not major characters it doesn't take centre stage very often.

As much as I like giving the less dramatic powers a chance to shine it is fun being able to write Mon-El or Supergirl busting out, so I like having a big bruiser of a bad guy every now and then so I can write scenes of people punching each other through buildings and such smile

Finally, one of my favourite Legion challenges is when they're not fighting a bad guy but the conflict comes from somewhere else. Rounding up wild animals, cleaning up after battles, escaping from dangerous situations...it's fun for me to write and read different situations than just 'bad guy does x, Legion fight bad guy'

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Originally Posted by razsolo
Finally, one of my favourite Legion challenges is when they're not fighting a bad guy but the conflict comes from somewhere else. Rounding up wild animals, cleaning up after battles, escaping from dangerous situations...it's fun for me to write and read different situations than just 'bad guy does x, Legion fight bad guy'


I dig the hell out of fiddling with this as well: charity events, diplomatic arbitration, public appearances at museums or schooles, consulting for the Science Police...treating the Legion like the public face for the United Planets can be fun, and can help you figure out how your galaxy works!


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Re: How Do You Decide on Your Legion lineups?
Invisible Brainiac #874471 10/30/15 01:59 AM
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Agreed. That also gives Legionnaires with less offensive powers the chance to shine.

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Invisible Brainiac #875330 11/07/15 12:21 PM
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Another topic I wanted to open to you all - what rules, if any, do you follow when reintroducing or borrowing elements from other realities?

For example, in my fic set in the Postboot universe, I introduced Lamprey but changed her powers to control over water. I did this to differentiate her from the Ranzzes.

I also want to change Tellus' powers but am not sure yet to what. The purpose is to differentiate him from Saturn Girl, Kinetix and Mentalla.

Would love to hear all your thoughts!

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Invisible Brainiac #875335 11/07/15 01:18 PM
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I have been trying to plan out a gauntlet story in which Blok (or Chip) is able to demonstrate in a series of encounters ALL of the powers he has ever displayed before: strength, resilience, energy absorption / redirection (including limited abilities with regard to magical energies), silicon-based telepathy, resistance to organic telepathy, mass absorption (including healing abilities), nullification of anti-gravity, and super-slow super-intelligence.

As for Tellus, telepathy and telekinesis are not powers in themselves, but classes of powers. Saturn Girl, Saturn Queen, Esper Lass, and Mentalla all display telepathic ability in various differing ways. Saturn Girl originally had only sensory abilities, but this expanded to mind-speaking, mind-blasts, and eventually illusion-casting.

Also, as another example, Kinetix’ original powers were more similar to Life Lass than Superboy (Kon-El)

One might limit Tellus’ telekinesis only to liquids, or his telepathy only to projecting delusions. (An illusion is something you see that isn’t there; a delusion is a mistaken notion about the nature of reality: such as believing that you are drowning in air, or that all the stars are watching your every move.)


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Thanks Klar, for the suggestions on Tellus. Those are nuanced but material differences, certainly. I may pick a totally different class of power for Tellus though, as my Saturn Girl and Kinetix have both expanded their powersets.

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I don't really have any rules as such, as long as they're still recognisable as possessing the character's main traits by the time I'm done (otherwise you might as well just make a brand new character). Turtle, Gazelle, Sizzle, Sludge and Inferno all first appeared in my fic as members of the Legion of Substitute Villains, but Turtle has gone on to be a source of annoyance/love interest for Lamprey and Sizzle I think from memory is on a different home-made team of super powered wardens on Takron-Galtos but I'd have to check my notes on her smile

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Invisible Brainiac #875385 11/07/15 07:41 PM
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I chose to have Tellus' powers be more three-dimensional and have a kind of 'whalesong' like element to them, to differentiate them from Imra's telepathy.

Imra'd communicate like a message laser, targeting a single mind (or multiple selected minds), and nobody outside of that would have any idea anything had been 'said.'

Tellus would communicate more like radio waves, blasting out in all directions, but only those he wanted to 'speak' to would 'get the frequency,' and everyone else would just get a blast of 'static.' In this case, the 'static' would be a sense of something vast moving in the darkness, as if the eavesdropper was a man in a wetsuit, surrounded by dark waters, while a pod of whales passed around them on all sides, or perhaps just a ringing echo of something like whalesong reverberating in their skull for a moment. *Something else else* would have just happened, but they'd have no idea what had been said.

His telekinesis, which I didn't describe this way in my two fics that used Tellus, would work similarly, feeling like an irresistible tide sweeping them towards where he wants them to go, or a watery environment restricting their movements, if he's 'telekinetically grappling' someone to hold them in place. Everyone around him would feel a 'wave' of telekinetic energy, perhaps even a gentle one that rustles their hair and clothing, for minor manifestations, as he activates his telekinetic powers to do something, making it, like his telepathy, very 'unsubtle' compared to someone with a more unidirectional and focused sort of power.

I wanted to add this sort of 'special effect' for multiple reasons;

A) to differentiate him from Imra.
B) to make him feel more alien.
C) to make him feel unusually powerful, almost primal and elemental, and yet also much less experienced and lacking Imra's lifetime of fine control and training, as she was raised among an entire population of lifelong telepaths and he's quite possibly the first telepath of his species (and only indifferently trained by the Gil'Dishpan).

I just checked, and it turns out I used him three times, so far. Once in the Princess Pain tryout, once in the 'Last Stand of the Fatal Five,' and once dealing with the long-delayed fallout from the death of Nemesis Kid and an alchemically powered group from Myar. I mostly address his psychological distance in two of them, and mention the above telepathic differences in the Princess Pain tryout.







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Re: How Do You Decide on Your Legion lineups?
Invisible Brainiac #875412 11/08/15 03:21 AM
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Great question again IB.

My viewsare it's okay to duplicate abilities as certain characters will focus on certain points - for instance the difference between Imra creating telepathic illusions and controlling eople while Tellus was more about communication. I try not to alter things too much though have added a fewthings in my own writings, for instance Laurel Kent being affect by being stuck in the temporal stasis by the Manhunter giving her a limited form of tactile psychometry. Nothing too huge but just enough to distinguish her from other invulnerable folks without making her another heavy hitter. Mwindaji finding the ruby of Life was another.

I did think of tweaking Tellus' telekinesis so he found the 'feel' of solid objects uncomfortable to his mind so would be sneakier, so perhaps moving a persons blood - so throwing their entire body around, for instance.

Gazelle is different enough from Brin in my mind that they don't need any tweaking to me. I try to think about how the Legionnaires would use their powers so that it isn't just punch and blasting things every time, though sometimes that's great fun too.


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Re: How Do You Decide on Your Legion lineups?
Invisible Brainiac #875450 11/08/15 06:27 AM
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There are numerous ways to broadly and generally classify characters in video games, board games, and so forth.
This is mine, adapted especially for the Legion.

1) ULTIMATES are characters with a wide range of powers, up at the outer edge of power levels.
In the Legion world, examples of Ultimates are Andromeda, Duplicate Boy, Kid Psycho, and Green Lantern.

2) BRUTES are distinguished by their strength and indestructability.
Such as Blok, Monstress, and Colossal Boy.

3) SCRAPPERS have abilities primarily suited to close-in fighting.
Examples are Karate Kid, Timber Wolf, Catspaw, and Gazelle.

4) RANGERS utilize ranged abilities.
Such as Lightning Lass, Cosmic Boy, Echo, and DragonWing.

5) SPEEDSTERS are a special class of scrapper, although half-way to ranger.
Their abilities allow them to attack from a distance by rushing in, hitting, and rushing out.
Any classification scheme is necessarily subjective, but I feel speedsters deserve their own class.
Examples are XS and Bouncing Boy.

6) INFILTRATORS are a class not determined by their fighting style.
Rather, infiltrators have abilities which primarily allow them to go 'behind enemy lines' unnoticed.
Invisible Kid, Phantom Girl, and Shrinking Violet are obvious examples.
7) MAGES have abilities which affect the nature of reality, and not necessarily magical.

Examples are the White Witch (obviously), but also Projectra, Brainiac 5, Star Boy, and Element Lad.
8) SENSORS have powers primarily related to enhanced or exotic senses.
Dawnstar, Computo (Danielle Foccart), Ivy and Dream Girl are examples.

9) TRANSPORTERS are useful in Dungeons-and-Dragons type games, but rare in the Legion.
They allow a groups to move quickly from one location to another. Most are teleporters.
In the Legion world, most transporters are objects, like time bubbles or cruisers.
However, we also have Gates, VeilMist, and Bounty.

10) HEALERS are indispenable in video games, restoring life, health, and energy to other characters.
In the Legion world, we have ReAniMage, and… well, nobody. Dr. Gym'll?

11) This being the Legion, there are a few unique characters that really don't fit into any category.
Matter-Eater Lad, Quislet, Gear, and Stone Boy, for example.

It might be argued that Matter-Eater Lad and Gear are Mages, Quislet is a Mage / Scrapper, and Stone Boy is… I don't know. A Healer, whose powers only work on himself? While asleep?

Obviously, there are characters with double classes. All Ultimates are by definition multi-class.
There are also Legion characters who have progressed through classes.
Chameleon Boy was originally utilized almost exclusively as an Infiltrator. In fact, his power was originally described as 'super-disguise'. Over time, he began to weaponize his body through shape-shifting, and gained Scrapper class.
Saturn Girl was exclusively a Sensor, then gained Ranger powers with super-hypnosis (and eventually, 'mind-blast'), and added a third class as a Mage with illusion-casting powers.

All of this is pretty subjective, as I said. I classify BloodClaw as a Brute, but FireFist as a Scrapper.
And where on the Scrapper-Brute continuum does Timber Wolf fall? It depends a lot on the specific writer.

Fortress Lad might be thought of as Unique, but I classify him as a Transporter: but the place he transports you to is himself.

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Re: How Do You Decide on Your Legion lineups?
Klar Ken T5477 #875453 11/08/15 07:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Klar Ken T5477
There are numerous ways to broadly and generally classify characters in video games, board games, and so forth.


Your breakdown is probably the best I've seen, Klar. It's certainly more inclusive than most.

City of Heroes broke it's five types into Tankers (most invulnerable heavy hitters, like Colossus or Blok), Blasters (zappers like the Human Torch or Lightning Lad), Scrappers (non-invulnerable hand to hand fighters, like Wolverine or Karate Kid), Controllers (control or restrict movement or actions of others, such as Princess Projectra, Element Lad, Kinetix, Karma or Spider-Woman 2 with her 'psi-webs') and Defenders (healers and 'buffers' like Elixir or our 'amped up' version of Amp Girl).

GURPS had a similar breakdown, with Tanks and Flying Zappers, etc.

I originally tended to think of them along a military schema;
Airborne (flyers, of which very few, such as Angel, are *only* flyers)
Artillery (Cyclops or Lightning Lad are 'pure' Artillery. Lots are also Airborne or fill other roles)
Armor (Colossus, Blok, Hulk, the Thing, etc. are all 'pure' Armor)
Infantry (hand to hand fighters who aren't armor/invulnerable, like Wolverine or Karate Kid)
Transportation (team transport, not merely able to fly or teleport, but able to bring everyone with them, like some version of Raven or Gates, or Ilyanna/Magik. Thanks to Legion Cruisers, Blackbirds, Fantasti-Cars, JLA teleporters and / or Quinjets, lots of people get this as a device.)
Communications (usually telepaths, but thanks to Flight Rings or JLA communications or Avengers ID cards, another thing that can appear as a device)

*Many* heroes cover lots of these roles.
Every Legionnaire has transportation, communication and airborne built in via Flight Rings and Legion Cruisers.
Mon-El is Airborne, Artillery (heat vision) and Armor.
Saturn Girl started as Communication, but added Artillery with mental blasts.

Most of these schemes don't really account for a lot of characters with utility powers (Dawnstar's tracking), or other unusual abilities (Chameleon Boy's shapechanging allows him to function as Infantry, but also allows for infiltration and information-gathering, making him more versatile than Karate Kid or other 'scrappy' sorts). That's where your addition of 'Sensors' and 'Infiltrators' is a cut above the rest.

Due to the number of 'Scrappers' and 'Tanks' the Legion already has (and *everyone* having free flight, communications and life-support gear), I occasionally try to mix things up when considering new characters (either as allies or foes), to come up with buffing / debuffing ideas (like Amp Girl or Princess Pain or Leech), or 'control' characters that affect the environment or hinder people, by spraying sticky chemicals or slippery surfaces or paralyzing harmonics or disorienting lights or whatever (Water Witch, Kid Silicon, Pharmacopiea, etc.).



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Re: How Do You Decide on Your Legion lineups?
Invisible Brainiac #875460 11/08/15 07:19 AM
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I agree, nice classification.

Lots of great ideas here.

I have to admit that so far I have not really considered classes of powers in my team building except for keeping a mix of Scrappers, Ranged Fighters and Infiltrators/Others. I mainly try to avoid duplicating powers.

This type of thinking becomes more important as the team gets larger though.

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Invisible Brainiac #875461 11/08/15 07:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Invisible Brainiac
Another topic I wanted to open to you all - what rules, if any, do you follow when reintroducing or borrowing elements from other realities?

For example, in my fic set in the Postboot universe, I introduced Lamprey but changed her powers to control over water. I did this to differentiate her from the Ranzzes.

[Linked Image]
Me and Cobalt had a talk about this for 21CL Lamprey, since we not only had Garth & Ayla counterparts, but I also had Surge in the Academy. The point I made to follow-up was that lampreys have absolutely nothing to do with generating electricity like electric eels. The two suggestions I made were *checks* "turning her name into a pun and giving her light powers (a lamp's rays of light) ala Superboy's Legion Light Lass; or going the opposite route, taking her name more literally, and giving her a pseudo-vampiric iron-draining/anæmia-causing power."

We went with the former. smile

[There've been other stuff - someone introduced flight rings iB, which we weren't entirely happy about for the present-day setting. smile Consequently, "health'n'safety rules banned them" to stop common usage, although I've had them "sneaked" into use occasionally "under the table".]

On similar powers - yeah, you can make fine distinctions [one of my yet-to-be-posted bits has Irma and Rachel comparing their telepathy], but in the middle of a fight scene it can be hard to make them clear, unless you put VERY hard limits on what they can do (like how the New Mutants' Karma could only possess people, not do memory alterations and other such telepathic tricks. And even that's fallen by the wayside over the years...)


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Re: How Do You Decide on Your Legion lineups?
Reboot #875465 11/08/15 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Reboot

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Me and Cobalt had a talk about this for 21CL Lamprey, since we not only had Garth & Ayla counterparts, but I also had Surge in the Academy. The point I made to follow-up was that lampreys have absolutely nothing to do with generating electricity like electric eels. The two suggestions I made were *checks* "turning her name into a pun and giving her light powers (a lamp's rays of light) ala Superboy's Legion Light Lass; or going the opposite route, taking her name more literally, and giving her a pseudo-vampiric iron-draining/anæmia-causing power."

We went with the former. smile


IIRC, the original write up for Lamprey gave her some sort of death touch, which was deemed an inappropriate power for a Legionnaire. Learning to 'tone it down' to a life-draining / energy-sapping / devitalizing touch could indeed be the best way to push her away from being yet another electricity manipulator (on a team that already has two much better lightning-chuckers).

If it's actually vampiric in nature, strengthening and toughening her, while weakening whoever she's grabbed onto, then it becomes even more useful, as she might clamp onto a Daxamite foe like Ol-Vir and if she can hold on long enough (depending on how quickly it works), gain temporary Kryptonian class strength and toughness as he passes out, making her a little bit like Rogue, in that sense, with some added aquatic elements.



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Reboot #875469 11/08/15 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Reboot


[There've been other stuff - someone introduced flight rings iB, which we weren't entirely happy about for the present-day setting. smile Consequently, "health'n'safety rules banned them" to stop common usage, although I've had them "sneaked" into use occasionally "under the table".]

On similar powers - yeah, you can make fine distinctions [one of my yet-to-be-posted bits has Irma and Rachel comparing their telepathy], but in the middle of a fight scene it can be hard to make them clear, unless you put VERY hard limits on what they can do (like how the New Mutants' Karma could only possess people, not do memory alterations and other such telepathic tricks. And even that's fallen by the wayside over the years...)


Was I the one who first introduced the flight rings? I remember using them and then editing out when Cobie told me the direction was not to have them used often. I can't remember being the one to actually have them debut though. wink

Was thinking similar thoughts about the similar powers thing. Having Tellus' telepathy and telekinesis work differently from others with the same powers is great in a reality where those powers are already established, but I want to make more radical changes in my writing to further diversify. I don't want to go the X-Men route with a dozen telepaths and psychics on the same team smile the fine distinctions others have mentioned above are great for exploring Tellus' alien nature though

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Invisible Brainiac #875618 11/09/15 03:57 PM
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I'm posting here because this seems like the most appropriate thread on this subforum. I need help developing powers for a new character. I came up with an awesome codename: Prism Lad.

However, it has been harder to find powers that would fit. I was tempted at first to make him a Rainbow Girl clone (not literally, just the powers), but that just feels wrong given the fact that I already made one in the past.

I looked up Mirror Master, and it appears that his powers come from a pack or gun (depending on the version). I kind of want internalized powers. So I'm down to three ideas:

1) Portal Creation
2) Uses Ice to Create Mirrors (Thinking his actual powers are too generic)
3) Standard Light Powers

Do any of these ideas seem good? Does anyone else have more suggestions?

The only other powered member of the team I've designed thus far has electric powers, if that helps.


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Invisible Brainiac #875625 11/09/15 05:18 PM
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Hey Emily! smile

All of those seem like solid ideas! Another possibility you could explore would be to have his powers be the REMOVAL of color. Since light passing through a prism creates the colors of the rainbow, why not have the character work as a reverse prism, able to sap an object of it's color and tone irreversibly. There's some potential there for combinations with other characters whose strengths or weaknesses are color related (i.e. Green Lantern's weakness to yellow).



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Great discussion, ya'll!

Reboot and IBL I love fiddling with Lamprey, and I made her a mutated Atlantean who follows in her people's footsteps as Aqualass - she has some control over water, can absorb lifeforce energy through touch, and can expel a large amount of it by touch as well, so she's got a varied powerset that pushes her further from the other bolt-throwers and makes her sufficiently 'Aqua'!

Some great stuff on Tellus and Mentalla, and for my two cents: I've had a lot of fun basically varying the Titanians to where, while they all at base have some telepathic abilities, their actual 'powers' vary from person to person: I made Otaki able to absorb talents and skills telepathically, and Mentalla's powers deal more with possession and motor control of others, where Imra is more a telepathic communicator with a lot of raw power that she can focus into her mindblasts, and Saturn Girl is a sort of paragon of the Titanians, in that she's just so adroit with her powers were most other Titanians aren't.

And Emily: Prism Lad sounds like he could really rock! In the Legion RP I play the Color Kid player has been reading up on light and its affects, and some of it may be useful to help you out on - it could be that Prism Lad casts a 'rainbow effect' as a byproduct of activating his power, where his real power is to push and amplify light to its Ultraviolet and Infrared extremes. This means he can cast infrared as a sort of heat beam and Ultraviolet as a sort of Photodegradation beam (Check out Photodegradation's article on wikipedia, but essentially it's a sort of light affect that can disintegrate matter!), and I'm using a version of this power for a Legion Cadet in my own stuff!

Combine these with some of the reflective powers you were looking at for Mirror Master, and I'd say you'd have a pretty unique powerset on your hands!


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Re: How Do You Decide on Your Legion lineups?
Emily Sivana #875632 11/09/15 07:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Emily Sivana
I'm posting here because this seems like the most appropriate thread on this subforum. I need help developing powers for a new character. I came up with an awesome codename: Prism Lad.



One of Invisible Brainiac's powers is to convert himself to light, pass through a prism and disperse himself into seven selves - one for each of the 7 colors of the rainbow.

Re: How Do You Decide on Your Legion lineups?
Invisible Brainiac #875639 11/09/15 11:20 PM
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There've been a few characters named Prism or Prizm (one a mutant-massacring Marauder at Marvel, the other a Team Titan overshadowed by her more popular teammate, Argent, IIRC).

Both assumed a crystalline form, which is automatically a cool visual, and likely comes with a side-dose of rock-like strength and durability. Being able to refract light allowed the mutant dude to reflect energy attacks (such as Cyclops optic blasts) in whatever direction he choose, making anyone who zapped him basically a free attack on their own allies, as he usurped control of their attack and 'regifted' it to someone else.

What might make it more interesting than just splitting light up into different color frequencies might be for this Prism Girl to be able to shift the wavelength up or down the spectrum, turning a laser attack (or even a really bright flashlight) into microwaves or X-rays or ultraviolet or gamma radiation, giving her a wide range of possible energy types (sort of like how Monica Rambeau can manifest these various energy types, in her case, by turning into that energy). If her ability to refract energy also includes the ability to alter it in other ways, such as to convert a laser into a blinding flash (de-focusing it) or bright sunlight into a weak laser (very much focusing it), or even enhancing or reducing the energy levels of something (turning that laser blast into a weak little sparkle, or that sunlight into a more powerful laser!), then she's got some real potential.

Or her multi-colored crystalline body could break apart on the slightest impact into seven floating colored crystals, each with their own Eye of Ekron-like colored force constructs, and later reform into her normal self. Just to be different. smile



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Invisible Brainiac #875732 11/10/15 12:43 PM
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I really like all these ideas so far. This is a bit of a spoiler, but I'm thinking he was part of a mass experiment in mirrors or light. He was kind of a Radiation Roy; wanting superpowers for the sake of joining a superteam. However, he's disappointed that he didn't turn out to be like a Green Lantern.

I'm a little saddened that Prism already has been taken, but I can't think of anything better. I am hesitant to call him Mirror Master, as the character has to think his powers aren't very useful. If anyone has suggestions for this, let me know.

By the way, do you think it is good for every superteam to have a brick/tank?






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Re: How Do You Decide on Your Legion lineups?
Invisible Brainiac #875734 11/10/15 01:16 PM
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I like the ideas everyone has come up with for Prism Lad....I was thinking something along the lines of Sizzle from the threeboot where if he's hit with one type of energy he could refract it as a different form of energy which is similar to what Set came up with I think. Another idea I had probably doesn't really fit with what you're going for Emily, but it is very in the Legion mode of weird powers that need a bit of creativity to use effectively; what if the prismatic effect is a kind of telepathic thing?

eg He would look crystalline, then when someone looks at him he can reflect different aspects of their personality on a different one of his surfaces as a kind of interrogation technique...maybe the Persuader doesn't want to tell the heroes his big plan, but there must be some part of his personality that is basically altruistic that he buries and Prism Lad could project this part of his psyche so the team could get answers from him...I will put some more thought into it and maybe resurrect the heroes of other worlds thread with him smile

Bit late to the party on my next point, but I like what peeps have said about differentiating Tellus and Saturn Girl's similar powers. It's not something I make a massive point of, but I do try to always describe Tellus's telepathy as being like a tide or washing over someone, or mentioning him diving into someone's mindscape etc....whereas when I write Imra's powers I try to be more direct and less flowery about it as fits her pragmatic personality. Similarly when I had Shadow Lad join the team, I gave him a weapon that he used occasionally and had him use his darkness to compliment an aggressive attack style whereas Tasmia tends to use hers defensively to hide or cover her teammates...it is actually kind of challenging writing someone who CAN be a kickass fighter but prefers to be indirect when the option's available, I like it!

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Invisible Brainiac #875769 11/11/15 06:59 AM
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As one who tries thinking outside the box, I would note that a prism is also a mathematical construct: a polygon. So maybe Prism Lad can create solid-light prism-shaped forcefields… for keeping things in.


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Invisible Brainiac #875786 11/11/15 12:21 PM
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That is a cool idea, Klar Ken! I will give it some consideration as I may have a second light power user on the team. If one of them uses their powers mostly defensively, it would be different from standard light blasts.


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Re: How Do You Decide on Your Legion lineups?
Emily Sivana #875793 11/11/15 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Emily Sivana
I'm a little saddened that Prism already has been taken, but I can't think of anything better. I am hesitant to call him Mirror Master, as the character has to think his powers aren't very useful. If anyone has suggestions for this, let me know.


Legion convention would suggest Prism Lad, Prism Kid, Kid Prism, etc. There's also derivations like Prismatic or Prismatix. And it's certainly possible in a universe with three or four people having been named the Flash, and thousands sharing the name Green Lantern, for there to be a couple of Prisms 1000 years apart. smile

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By the way, do you think it is good for every superteam to have a brick/tank?


I don't think it's needed. The original five X-Men didn't have a tank. The second Avengers lineup, 'Cap's Kooky Quartet' of Captain America, Scarlet Witch, Hawkeye and Quicksilver also did without. Ditto the original Teen Titans, and the Perez/Wolfman team's 'tank' was Donna Troy, who certainly didn't fit the Hulk/Thing mold of being an obvious (hypermuscled) tank.

It's certainly a 'standard' though, along with a 'blaster' (like Starfire or Cyclops) and a 'scrapper' (whether powered like Wolverine or Wolfesbane or 'awesome human' like Nightwing or Captain America). A standard brick makes for some ease for both the writer and the reader, as, particularly when there are those in the group with 'thinkier' powers like telepathy or chemical manipulation or magic, writing (or reading) about someone whose 'merely' strong and bulletproof can be a bit of a brain-break or palette-cleanser.

Plus there's the option of messing with expectations and having the bruiser be a gentle artist (like Colossus) or have a non-traditional look (like Molly Hayes, of the Runaways).

Or strapping other powers onto the brick, as with Wonder Man (also able to fly) or Superman (flight, heat vision, super-speed) or Martian Manhunter (oy vey!), etc.



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Could be "Prism Prince", a la Chemical King?

And a tank isn't _needed_, but Set raises a good point in that they're bread-and-butter powers. I seem to recall Major Spoilers calling powers like Colossal Boy and Ferro Lad as 'linebackers', which I think is apt; bricks run interference while the fingerwigglers and the big brains try to work out the situation.


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Invisible Brainiac #875806 11/11/15 05:06 PM
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So this is what I am thinking:

Final Name will be Prism Prince; I just introduced the character so that is an easy change. I think I will combine the crystalline form idea with the light force fields to start. I might have his powers expand as he learns more about them.

Not-So-Bad Lad, in case my newest series (It's the Facets one) goes far, do you think you could share with me more of your friend's Color Kid power ideas?


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Invisible Brainiac #875807 11/11/15 05:23 PM
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Prism Prince has a cool ring to it. nod

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Invisible Brainiac #879878 12/05/15 01:06 PM
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Love the Prism Character ideas, sorry I've been away for a while so missed that conversation, not that would have much to add really.

I've a question as I'm considering something for my fic: how 'real' should the characters lives be? I mean, for instance, we've seen Tenzils dad is a drunk gambler, Gim and Yera had domestic violence issues, Brin had drug problems. So I guess I want o figure out -How real is acceptable? Are there any limits to what would be acceptable?


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Invisible Brainiac #879882 12/05/15 01:16 PM
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Hmm. Personally I think almost anything could go as long as its depicted tastefully. And of course, it is developed well. Each writer can gauge how "real" to make things based on the overall tone of his/her work. Some of us have more "optimistic" universes than others.

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Invisible Brainiac #879886 12/05/15 01:41 PM
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When was the Gim/Yera domestic abuse stuff? confused


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Invisible Brainiac #879889 12/05/15 02:39 PM
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I don't remember any Gim/Year domestic violence incidents, either. Was this during the Retroboot? (If so -- bad Levitz, bad!)

In answer to Harbi's question, I think the keys to successfully depicting true-to-real-life situations in fiction are plausibility, restraint, and most importantly, to make the characters accountable for their actions. The reason why Vi's coming out and Rokk's violent outburst are among my least favorite Legion moments are because the former was so heavy-handed and the latter had no consequences.


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Fanfic Lady #879895 12/05/15 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Fanfic Lady
and most importantly, to make the characters accountable for their actions.


When is Hal Jordan going to be punished for putting us through Zero Hour? angel tongue


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I don't understand. confused I thought you were a fan of his.


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Originally Posted by Fanfic Lady
I don't understand. confused I thought you were a fan of his.


No, I am a huge fan. I was just mocking how bad Zero Hour was and how bad of a decision it was to make him the main villain. tongue


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Invisible Brainiac #879898 12/05/15 03:06 PM
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Zero Hour was awful, I agree.


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Re: How Do You Decide on Your Legion lineups?
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Originally Posted by Fanfic Lady
I don't remember any Gim/Year domestic violence incidents, either. Was this during the Retroboot? (If so -- bad Levitz, bad!)

In answer to Harbi's question, I think the keys to successfully depicting true-to-real-life situations in fiction are plausibility, restraint, and most importantly, to make the characters accountable for their actions. The reason why Vi's coming out and Rokk's violent outburst are among my least favorite Legion moments are because the former was so heavy-handed and the latter had no consequences.


Maybe it was the hints dropped in Legion Lost v2? I don't have the issues handy so I can't pull out the dialogue, though.

Plausibly, restraint and accountability, I agree. Realistic events should have realistic consequences.

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Invisible Brainiac #879922 12/06/15 01:21 AM
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Gim and Yera got into physical fights just before she left to go on the Lost mission. While everyone made fun of her smacking him into the ceiling with something that looked like a giant hinged penis I just felt sad that such an established decent character like Gim could be shown in such a poor light...


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I agree, Harbi. I'm outraged! Gim was one of my favorite male Legionnaires, precisely because he was a nice, uncomplicated guy who respected strong women (such as his mother, who was once President of Earth.)


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Invisible Brainiac #879940 12/06/15 05:06 AM
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Nearly everything about the retroboot was terrible, imo.

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I remember that being hinted at by the villain. It was so outrageous I refused to believe it was true.

Re: How Do You Decide on Your Legion lineups?
Eryk Davis Ester #879957 12/06/15 06:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Eryk Davis Ester
Nearly everything about the retroboot was terrible, imo.


It was terribly frustrating for me, because it seemed like Levitz was reading our posts here, and trying to give us some of the things we'd wanted, like more ethnic diversity in the Legion (Glorith, Dragonwing, Chemical Kid, Harmonia Li *and* the return of Tyroc!), exotic locales, etc. and yet, it just kind of fell apart in places. (Pretty much everything about Harmonia, for instance, starting with the Titan blowing up intro to her controlling the four western elements instead of the five Chinese elements. Ditto Earth-Man's entire arc. The Legion blowing up a dozen Dominator ships, and the one Cham *randomly* picks to infiltrate is full of Dominators, indicating that the Legionnaires just killed hundreds of people... Brainy grousing internally about wanting to pillage some tech from the Time Institute while, all around him, people died. Saturn Queen building a little fire in outer space for her weird ritual. Yikes.)

I wanted to like it, but it was pretty messed up.

And then Giffen showed up and killed some people, and, pretty much, the title. As is his wont. Ugh.



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Harmonia controlling the four elements instead of the Chinese 5 wasn't something I complained about. Avatar: The Last Airbender also used the Western elements despite being heavily Asian, but they did it well. With Harmonia It was everything else about her I disliked.

I also hated everything else you cited though. And I like to pretend Giffen's story didn't happen.

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Invisible Brainiac #879960 12/06/15 06:26 AM
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One weird thing about Harmonia is that her first name was also decidedly Greek as well, so who knows what was going on with that.

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Invisible Brainiac #879962 12/06/15 06:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Eryk Davis Ester
Nearly everything about the retroboot was terrible, imo.


Thank you, EDE. My sentiments exactly. It was a travesty! I'm just glad I stopped reading it after the sixth issue and learned about most of the worst stuff second-hand.


Originally Posted by Set
And then Giffen showed up and killed some people, and, pretty much, the title. As is his wont. Ugh.


LOL

Very well put.

As I've always said, Set, when you and I agree on something, we agree 100%. Cheers. cheers


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Re: How Do You Decide on Your Legion lineups?
Eryk Davis Ester #879963 12/06/15 07:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Eryk Davis Ester
One weird thing about Harmonia is that her first name was also decidedly Greek as well, so who knows what was going on with that.


Maybe Levitz wanted to diversify as much as possible. Chinese lady, Greek name, Western classical elements, totally annoying...

Re: How Do You Decide on Your Legion lineups?
Invisible Brainiac #882313 12/22/15 12:25 PM
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Thought some of you guys (especially fellow Postboot writer Omni!) might be interested in Fanfie's thread about what would you do if you inherited the Postboot Legion from DNA?

Re: How Do You Decide on Your Legion lineups?
Invisible Brainiac #882394 12/23/15 12:50 AM
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Would that be after Gail Simones story or right before?


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Re: How Do You Decide on Your Legion lineups?
Invisible Brainiac #882395 12/23/15 12:51 AM
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Never mind, I'll read the thread (sorry - didn't see link)


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Re: How Do You Decide on Your Legion lineups?
Invisible Brainiac #882397 12/23/15 01:42 AM
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No worries Harbi. I think we can choose whether it should be before Gail Simone's story or after, but I think Fanfie makes it clear in her post that it should be right at the end of the series, and before Legion of 3 Worlds.

Re: How Do You Decide on Your Legion lineups?
Invisible Brainiac #882458 12/23/15 12:29 PM
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Do you guys generally type in advance or write on the spot?

I think it is going to be a struggle for me to get back to writing after Christmas, and am thinking about just writing on the spot to get a lot out.

I'm starting to understand why people generally don't like the first part of a series as much as later parts. I can't wait to finish introducing the characters and solving the origin story so I don't have to do it again.


Go with the good and you'll be like them; go with the evil and you'll be worse than them.- Portuguese Proverb
Re: How Do You Decide on Your Legion lineups?
Invisible Brainiac #882459 12/23/15 12:38 PM
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Emily, I've done both, but I find that what works best for me falls somewhere in between: I make short notes of all the most important bits, and then from there I just write on the spot.


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Re: How Do You Decide on Your Legion lineups?
Invisible Brainiac #882462 12/23/15 12:59 PM
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I have a similar approach. I make an outline/skeleton of the plot and fill in the major events. I also make note of elements that I must introduce so that future events can come to pass/will make sense. Everything else I just write on the spot.

Some things I have introduced actually came to me as I was writing (Brek having a crush on Zoe; Ferro having a crush on Mentalla). A certain character resurrection of mine also came as a flash of inspiration while I was plotting things out - I realized that the story pieces I had set up allowed me to logically bring back this character.

I would say, don't box yourself in but be open to going "where the story takes you" so to speak.

Re: How Do You Decide on Your Legion lineups?
Invisible Brainiac #883588 12/31/15 01:11 PM
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I news to finish my first story so I can write the ones I want, but feel a lack of inspiration. Anyone know any songs or speeches that could get me out of this rut?


Go with the good and you'll be like them; go with the evil and you'll be worse than them.- Portuguese Proverb
Re: How Do You Decide on Your Legion lineups?
Emily Sivana #883589 12/31/15 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Emily Sivana
I news to finish my first story so I can write the ones I want, but feel a lack of inspiration. Anyone know any songs or speeches that could get me out of this rut?


I recommend something instrumental to listen to. For me, I usually fall back on movie soundtracks. What kind of story am I trying to tell? Is it an action/adventure movie? I'll listen to a rousing John Williams score? Is it a horror or mystery story? I'll go for something by John Carpenter or from an Alfred Hitchcock movie. Using music that fits the story you're trying to tell can get those gears spinning in your head again. smile


Keep up with what I've been watching lately!

"Where have you gone, Joe DiMaggio? Our nation turns its lonely eyes to you."
Re: How Do You Decide on Your Legion lineups?
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Sometimes I read my past work or the work of others to grt inspired. As for music, music from some of my favorite video games helps some times.

Re: How Do You Decide on Your Legion lineups?
Invisible Brainiac #884669 01/10/16 06:04 AM
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I'm finally getting to the end of the pilot/prologue for my series (I am so happy). I want to write a future story in which my characters encounter a society where everyone's superpower determines what they do in life(kind of like the Inhumans at Marvel). I'm divided whether to divide the powers by elements (like Fire, Water, etc) or by roles (street fighter, elemental, etc). Which do you think would be more interesting?


Go with the good and you'll be like them; go with the evil and you'll be worse than them.- Portuguese Proverb
Re: How Do You Decide on Your Legion lineups?
Invisible Brainiac #884681 01/10/16 08:51 AM
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Congratulations, Emily.

Regarding your question, I would say that elements are a bit limiting, so roles would be better.


Read LEGIONS OF 7 WORLDS in the Bits forum:

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Re: How Do You Decide on Your Legion lineups?
Invisible Brainiac #884704 01/10/16 12:02 PM
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I think roles would be less limiting as well, and give you more potential to use creative powersets for your characters.

NEW QUESTION!
Invisible Brainiac #889114 03/05/16 04:50 AM
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Are there any Legion-related characters you've wanted to write but have been stuck on how to use for whatever reason? What kind of obstacles do you find and how do you get around them?

(Sorry if this has been discussed already, I couldn't find anything over the past few pages)

Re: NEW QUESTION!
Invisible Brainiac #889121 03/05/16 05:36 AM
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Jan, because I barely understand basic science, let alone hard science.

Val, because being able to cleave a tank bare-handed is a bit much for me.

Jacques, because I still haven't come around to regarding him as anything more than a cynical attempt to cash in on the Legion's main rivals at the time, the international X-Men.


Read LEGIONS OF 7 WORLDS in the Bits forum:

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Re: NEW QUESTION!
Invisible Brainiac #889132 03/05/16 11:07 AM
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As for overcoming obstacles in writing characters, my experiences with writing Rokk and Dirk -- both characters I normally dislike -- is to research them as thoroughly as possible and try to uncover something within them that you can feel empathy for.


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Retroboot (Earth-7.5) Arc 2 (WORK IN PROGRESS)

"Don't look for role models, girls, BE the role model."

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Re: NEW QUESTION!
Invisible Brainiac #889148 03/05/16 02:35 PM
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I prefer writing about the Substitutes and more obscure characters (and original characters) for that reason. When I do that, I have more freedom to do what I want without canon getting in that way.


Go with the good and you'll be like them; go with the evil and you'll be worse than them.- Portuguese Proverb
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I like taking established characters and running with them, I get more of a "feel" for how to properly write them that way.

Like what Fanfie does, I research- though all my fanfic writing has been with the Postboot Legion, so it's easier for me because I've read pretty much every comic they have appeared in.

Re: NEW QUESTION!
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I find Tellus really difficult despite how much I liked his visual in the comic there wasn't really too much to get to grips with. I'm slowly adding layers to him in my fanfic without hopefully forcing it too badly so I have more to work with when I do need to use him. That's the plan anyway. Chemical Kid is another as like Fanfie says above the hard science is just not my bag.

I actively disliked Rokk and Dirk but have tried to make them into more attractive characters without denying their pasts. Harmonic and Dragonwing both annoyed me in the comic so again I've just kind of got on with it and found I really enjoy writing them now.

Last edited by Harbinger; 03/24/16 02:43 AM.

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Re: NEW QUESTION!
Invisible Brainiac #893081 04/01/16 01:06 PM
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I think you can get interesting results from forcing yourself to write someone you don't particularly like very much - I don't mind Harbinger's Harmonia, and I never really took to her at all outside of her cool costume in the comic. I remember years ago when I was playing an Avengers RPG I ended up playing the Scarlet Witch, who was my most hated Avenger at the time....she ended up becoming one of my favourite characters of the team, and I have found that I can see all this potential in her now that I wish would be explored more in the comics.

I am on the same page with Fanfic Lady & Harbinger re the science characters too...I don't tend to use Element Lad generally unless it's a story which relates to his actual character more than his powers, or unless there's a specific thing I thought of that would be cool to do with his powers due to having read something interesting about a particular element online or something like that....Chemical Kid even moreso. Brainy's another one who can be challenging to write really well I think, it's the problem of depicting someone who's heaps more intelligent than me tongue

I would really like to do a Mordru story at some stage but finding the right platform for him to shine is the problem...it took me this long to figure out what I wanted to do with a Universo story as well, that's something else I've been sitting on just about since I started writing my series!

Re: NEW QUESTION!
Invisible Brainiac #893101 04/01/16 03:14 PM
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As with others above, I have trouble with Chemical King/Chemical Kid because of the science involved. But my main use for Condo Arlik's powers so far has been


catalyzing Chuck Taine's metabolism to save his life after being coated in a poisonous mixture, and inadvertently giving him his bouncing powers. See it here!


A lot of pseudo-science there, and I admit to not researching much on it, but I think it worked well enough smile

Having Lyle Norg there as Condo's boyfriend AND "coach"/biology expert not only helps me, but it also makes for a wonderful storytelling dynamic and vehicle.

I find Element Lad's powers (or in my fic,)

Monstress as Element Lass!


a tad easier to grasp than Condo's. They seem a bit more basic. Change one element to another. I do need to read up on the elements, though.

One thing that helps me with them is taking established tricks they have done in the comics. For Condo, that's slowing down or speeding up other people's metabolisms; enabling combustion/starting fires; and decaying stuff.

Like with Harbi, I also find Tellus a bit difficult to write. And unlike with Gates, Blok or even Quislet, there doesn't seem to be as much of an established personality in the comics to draw from, or at least not as distinct of one. But when I do write Tellus, I'll probably use the method I used for Lume - draw on existing stories about the character and its homeworld, and see what else I can infer from those. In Lume's first appearance it showed a fear of the darkness of space, so I took that and built on it.

One thing I have tons of difficulty with is writing villains. I find it even harder to create them, so most of my villains will be established characters. I guess one thing that would help me is drawing upon real-life experiences to create interesting and realistic motivations for my baddies...

Magic users are another weak spot for me. But I like what Levitz did with Mysa - she can only use a handful of spells at a time, and these have to be pre-prepared. She needs to research do to her most powerful magic. Those limitations make her way easier to write!

Heroes with wide-area effect powers are tough too. Kid Quantum II could theoretically end most battles by just sending out a flood of quantum particles and freezing time in the immediate era! I have to taking her by surprise a lot. The powered-up Reboot Star Boy too, who basically controls gravity, can just use his powers over a wide area and slam people into the ground. And the invulnerable heroes like M'Onel, Andromeda and Thunder can be challenging as well. That's why I like keeping a library of villains on hand, so I can pick the right ones for a given fight to give these heroes a challenge. And of course, moral dilemmas and so on.

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Re: NEW QUESTION!
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Magic is an interesting point.....I've got Dragonmage and Glorith for my magic users, and I actually really enjoy writing Dragonmage because the limitation of him needing to frame everything he does as a dragonform necessarily limits his ability to be a plot device in every circumstance that comes up.

I am a bit luckier with Glorith because she's only really supporting cast so I don't have to show her in action very often...and I play up her shyness and lack of worldliness a lot so she doesn't jump into the fray with a solution all the time as someone like Supergirl or Zoe might.

I think the advantage of having a team as massive as the Legion is that you can have characters with a ridiculous level of power like any of the Daxamite-level heroes or Element Lad or a Green Lantern, and if you don't want them stealing the show you can just leave them off of a mission and only bring them out when they're likely to be challenged or they can get a chance to show off smile

Re: NEW QUESTION!
razsolo #893262 04/02/16 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by razsolo

I think the advantage of having a team as massive as the Legion is that you can have characters with a ridiculous level of power like any of the Daxamite-level heroes or Element Lad or a Green Lantern,


Are you including a Green Lantern in your Legion lineup, raz? wink

But I agree, when the team's at its normal operations (central base with members being sent out on missions everywhere), it's much easier to just have certain heroes necessary for the story available. It's when we have those big epic stories with the entire team on board that the writing and plotting gets a bit tougher, and it becomes necessary to have the bad guys take certain heroes off the table so the fights remain interesting smile

In one of my recent battles, I had to take Sensor and Saturn Girl out of the fight right away! Imagine, you have someone who can cast an illusion that keeps everybody hidden...

Last edited by Invisible Brainiac; 04/02/16 05:17 PM.
Re: NEW QUESTION!
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Originally Posted by Invisible Brainiac
Are you including a Green Lantern in your Legion lineup, raz? wink

Hahahaha hypothetically you could have a Green Lantern...Harbinger has a Green Lantern....yes, let's go with that laugh

Re: NEW QUESTION!
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Kinetix is also quite Green Lantern-like... wink

Kinetix

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oh is she? I hadn't noticed...

*innocent whistle*

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Oh, is Kinetix in your story Raz, I must have missed that. Maybe you should tell IB as I think he may like her, I could be wrong though...


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Re: NEW QUESTION!
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Oh, Kinetix is okay... she has a pretty useful power, and has a nice visual. I like green, and red hair, and her power lust and obsession with being perfect is something that I am sure a lot of people find relatable... wink

And I kind of had her come back from being absorbed by Mordru AND restore the entire Reboot universe in my fic because why not...

Re: The Writers' Discussion/Ideas Thread
Invisible Brainiac #893319 04/03/16 12:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Invisible Brainiac
Oh, Kinetix is okay... she has a pretty useful power, and has a nice visual. I like green, and red hair, and her power lust and obsession with being perfect is something that I am sure a lot of people find relatable... wink

And I kind of had her come back from being absorbed by Mordru AND restore the entire Reboot universe in my fic because why not...

Whereas when I was brainstorming ways to go with the postboot Legion immediately post-DnA, I somehow ended up with her evil & dead wink

(And it wasn't even to wind up iB!)


My views are my own and do not reflect those of everyone else... and I wouldn't have it any other way.

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Re: The Writers' Discussion/Ideas Thread
Invisible Brainiac #893320 04/03/16 01:33 AM
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I welcome most interpretations of her character wink

Re: The Writers' Discussion/Ideas Thread
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Originally Posted by Invisible Brainiac
I welcome most interpretations of her character wink

..." Invisible Brainiac typed quickly, glad the other posters could not see his gritted teeth.

wink


My views are my own and do not reflect those of everyone else... and I wouldn't have it any other way.

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Re: The Writers' Discussion/Ideas Thread
Invisible Brainiac #893370 04/03/16 11:27 AM
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IB carefully added the word "most" to keep his statement from being an outright lie.

wink

Re: The Writers' Discussion/Ideas Thread
Invisible Brainiac #895237 04/22/16 09:38 AM
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Question: Have any of the rest of you gone through phases where the fanfic writing feels less like a fun hobby and more like a dreary job? I know I have, and it usually happens after I've completed the opening installments of whatever new project I'm working on. That's one of the reasons why I have so many unfinished stories. I really want to see my current project, the Retro-Postboot Legion, at least through LSH 100, but right now I'm stuck on LSH 82. How do the rest of you deal with this?


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Re: The Writers' Discussion/Ideas Thread
Invisible Brainiac #895247 04/22/16 10:36 AM
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Hey Fanfie, this is something I get when I'm writing something I'm either not entirely convinced by or I know I really want to write the next bit (or whatever fun idea is percolating around my mind). From my experience it also depends if I'm following the over arching plot line or just making it up following some vague idea of where I'm going.

If I'm following a plot through then I go back and work out why I'm stealing; is it rubbish? Does it need tweaking to make it more fun/exciting/intimate etc? Am I just not convinced so should scrap it and work out another way to get to the end.

If I'm just making it up then I just get silly, add random plots and work out some way to entertain myself as I firmly believe that if I'm not entertained then I can't expect anyone else to be.

If I really want to write out that cool idea that's bugging me so much it's interrupting whatever I feel I should be writing then I just stop doing what I'm doing and get on with the fun bit. I've found once I've done that there's more headspace to complete the boring bit I was working and stalling on.

If I'm not convinced then I stop and work out what is missing or what is too much, or what is generally wrong.

If none of them then I look to see how I can foreshorten the peice to get it over and done with.

Or I stop entirely, drink wine, watch tv and think about something else. Actually, this is my preferred solution though I've found that unfortunately its the least productive.

Hope this helps.

Last edited by Harbinger; 04/22/16 12:17 PM.

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Re: The Writers' Discussion/Ideas Thread
Harbinger #895248 04/22/16 10:53 AM
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Thank you, Harbi, it definitely does help.

Originally Posted by Harbinger
If I really want to write out that cool idea that's bugging me so much it's interrupting whatever I feel I should be writing then I just stop doing what I'm doing and get on with the fun bit. I've found once I've done that there's more headspace to complete the boring bit I was working and stalling on.


^^This is the part of your post that I could relate to the most in my current situation. There's this all-female JLA story that I started a year or two ago, but gave up on halfway through. Recently, in trying to find something to occupy my mind, I re-read what I did finish of that story and I think it's actually quite good and I was really on to something with that project. I just didn't realize it at the time.

So I think what I'm going to do is take a break from the Legion and work on finishing that story.

Thanks again, Harbi.


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Re: The Writers' Discussion/Ideas Thread
Invisible Brainiac #895250 04/22/16 11:50 AM
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I have only finished a handful of stories I have written here due to boredom. I find that I have more fun developing the settings and characters than writing the actual story. I usually do best if I have a collaborator or if the story is short. On the positive side, I also enjoy helping others with their stories and my creativity does well in RPGs.


Go with the good and you'll be like them; go with the evil and you'll be worse than them.- Portuguese Proverb
Re: The Writers' Discussion/Ideas Thread
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Thanks, Emily. Yes, I can relate to most of what you said. Maybe we should both edit and/or co-plot other people's stories.


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Re: The Writers' Discussion/Ideas Thread
Invisible Brainiac #895260 04/22/16 01:05 PM
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I have a rather different perspective.

In my youth, for about a decade or so, I was an aspiring short-story writer. I submitted tales to "Analog", "The Magazine of Fantasy & Science Fiction", "Isaac Asimov's Science Fiction", and even "Omni".

My rule at the time was, work a little every day, no matter what. Get something down on paper, then later re-write, revise, and edit.

I never got anything published.

I was a bit more successful with fanfic, with a few items published in a Star Trek zine called Federation, and one small submission to Klordny.

I now write for my own amusement. If I get bored, I quit. Sometimes I go a long time without picking up a pencil or touching the keyboard. But I find creating these little worlds and seeing where the lives of these little characters will go is relaxing and satisfying, and I always come back to it.

It is only on these boards that I have posted my fanfiction, and I feel no obligation to anyone here to keep doing so.

(You may have discerned that I do not play well with others.)

I am considering-- if I can finish it-- finding a Harry Potter fanfiction site to post my novelette, "Malcolm Dursley and the Goblin Wand". But if I don't? There are plenty of others posting their fanfiction. I write for my own recreation.


“I'm not crazy about reality, but it's still the only place to get a decent meal.” -- Groucho Marx
Re: The Writers' Discussion/Ideas Thread
Invisible Brainiac #895261 04/22/16 01:11 PM
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What helps me is knowing where I want to take my story. Having a definite ending in mind. My stories tend to be long, but the ones I've finished (the collaborative Lord of the Oval novella, and Volumes 1-3 of my fanfic, and a collab with Emily on Raltvee) had a definite end point, and had a definite ending.

I actually worked faster as I got closer to the ending because I felt there was a story in me bursting to get out.

I guess it's all about being inspired. Sadly I can't quite explain how I inspire myself, but it helps to have a clear ending in mind. I do best with stories that have a definite endpoint. I can't imagine myself doing an indefinite ongoing - I have to break it down into manageable "chapters", with each feeling like a complete story in itself.

Re: The Writers' Discussion/Ideas Thread
Invisible Brainiac #895264 04/22/16 01:47 PM
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Klar, the way I look at it is, since I'm seemingly incapable of doing any creative work for a living, then the fanfics I have completed -- and whichever ones I complete in the future -- will be the backbone of my legacy when I'm gone. I like the idea that I help people escape the harsher side of life for a little while, and that's my principal goal. But I also think that by doing fan fiction, I'm contributing something to the ongoing discussions regarding the characters and settings I write about. Unlike a lot of people, I have little or no respect for canon, and I think every take is valid, even the ones which are not to my personal taste.

Ibby, while I don't have a definite end point in mind (yet) for any of my iterations of the Legion, including the one we've collaborated on, I do know exactly at what issue I want to come to the ultimate climax, and that will be L* 100, after which I'll do a few more issues tying up loose ends. So if right now, we're at LSH 82 and L* 38, that's...my Gods, that's a long, long way to go. Point being, if I reach that goal, great, and if not, at least I entertained some people along the way.


Read LEGIONS OF 7 WORLDS in the Bits forum:

Retroboot (Earth-7.5) Arc 1 (COMPLETED)

Retroboot (Earth-7.5) Arc 2 (WORK IN PROGRESS)

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Re: The Writers' Discussion/Ideas Thread
Harbinger #895312 04/22/16 10:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Harbinger
...or I know I really want to write the next bit (or whatever fun idea is percolating around my mind).

Haha, I definitely get this smile

When I know I've got a cool scene coming up but I need to do the legwork to get there, it can occasionally feel a bit tedious. I know that at some point I'll come around though so I'm happy to wait for that to happen, even if it's a few weeks to a month before I feel inspired to pick up where I left off. I find that forcing it leads to resentment, and resentment isn't why I started writing this series wink

To be honest, I only actually started writing my own Legion series as an exercise to get myself to commit to putting something out regularly as I have a tendency to lose interest in stuff after a few weeks/months and it fizzles out. I am a bit surprised at myself that I've been writing this series for so long to be honest, and it's really taken on a life of its own in that I would miss it if I wasn't continually updating this world that I have put my own spin on smile Like Klar said though, at the end of the day I'm doing this for my own recreation - I cross-post to a livejournal but that's only so I have a backup record of it in case anything ever happens to it here, I don't actually have any readers on my LJ....and every now and then I've considered cross-posting to an actual fanfic site, but I feel like I'd really need to start from the beginning and I'm not in a hurry to copy and paste 4 or so years worth of instalments...if it ever stops being fun for me though I'll know it is time to stop and focus on something else.

Re: The Writers' Discussion/Ideas Thread
Invisible Brainiac #899050 06/07/16 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by secularbakedgoods@Tumblr.com


I know I’ve talked about this before, but I’m really sick of seeing writers who should know better say things like, “Tragedy is more compelling than stories where characters have a nice day and nothing bad happens!” without understanding why.

Tragedy is an effective story element when it’s a deviation from the norm. A character’s peaceful existence is disrupted by a catastrophic event that throws everything into chaos. The character now has to either develop so they can cope with the new status quo, or find a way to put things back the way they were. There’s a good story in that.

But when a character’s life is an unrelenting cavalcade of misery, another heaping dose of shit isn’t all that interesting. At that point, a compelling deviation from the norm would be said character having a nice day where nothing bad happens. And modern fiction is chock-full of misery porn, so by this logic, it’s no wonder the coffee shop AU is such a popular fanfiction trope.

Derek Hale getting a dog and putting his life back together is way more interesting than Derek Hale’s life getting worse for the 26th consecutive episode. Creators like to hold up “everything is fine and nobody dies” as a sign that fanfic is bland and badly written, but if anything, it’s an indicator that mainstream fiction is bland and badly written.



(Which is perhaps why I loved The Saga of Superman Red and Superman Blue so many years ago.)

Last edited by Klar Ken T5477; 06/07/16 12:54 PM.

“I'm not crazy about reality, but it's still the only place to get a decent meal.” -- Groucho Marx
Re: The Writers' Discussion/Ideas Thread
Invisible Brainiac #899141 06/08/16 07:11 AM
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Well said.

I love that story, too!

Re: The Writers' Discussion/Ideas Thread
Invisible Brainiac #904994 08/06/16 03:33 AM
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I want to write a short story (so I can finish it for once), but unsure how to condense my thoughts. Would it be best just to focus on one idea, and if I have more, to write other short stories later?


Go with the good and you'll be like them; go with the evil and you'll be worse than them.- Portuguese Proverb
Re: The Writers' Discussion/Ideas Thread
Invisible Brainiac #904996 08/06/16 03:52 AM
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Yes, I think it would be best to just focus on one idea. And if the other ideas have organic connections to the first one, all you have to do is make sure that each short story stand on its own. Then the stories can either be enjoyed separately, or joined together into a tapestry.


Read LEGIONS OF 7 WORLDS in the Bits forum:

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Re: The Writers' Discussion/Ideas Thread
Emily Sivana #904997 08/06/16 03:57 AM
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I cannot say this enough.

(1) Open a Tumblr account
(2) Follow AmandaOnWriting
(3) Follow WritersYoga
(4) Follow Neil-Gaiman

http://writerswrite.co.za/five-10-minute-fixes-for-your-short-story

[Linked Image]


“I'm not crazy about reality, but it's still the only place to get a decent meal.” -- Groucho Marx
Re: The Writers' Discussion/Ideas Thread
Invisible Brainiac #905032 08/06/16 01:50 PM
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Thank you both for your advise. I might end up retooling my idea into a chart, sort of what Exnihil did for the LMB Family Tree.


Go with the good and you'll be like them; go with the evil and you'll be worse than them.- Portuguese Proverb
Re: The Writers' Discussion/Ideas Thread
Invisible Brainiac #909673 09/18/16 02:25 PM
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A little background for my latest musings on the craft of writing:

My favorite auntie, who is not only a lovely person but whom I also consider a role model (she abandoned the corporate rat race at age *sixty-two* to become a small-town school librarian; over a decade later, she's still plugging away at a job she loves far more than any she had in youth or in middle age. Inspiring, or what?) visited me back in June and told me she wanted to get me a belated birthday present. We went to my local comic shop, and I chose a used copy of "Titans Companion 2."

Among the many informative and amusing interviews with various Titans creators that the book offered, the standout for me was the interview with Jay Faerber, who candidly admitted that, while his much-criticized Titans run was overall a good learning experience for him, he only rarely saw any of his original plans for the comic come to fruition -- in fact, after his first few issues, he was pretty much ordered what to plot by the incoming Titans editor, Andy Helfer. None of this was particularly surprising, but Faerber's refreshing honesty and articulate explanations were downright educational.

The final piece of the puzzle came when Faerber compared his experience as the writer of Titans (a gig he had fervently wished for ever since he read his first issue of NTT as a grade-schooler) with his experience as the writer of Marvel's Generation X, which turned out to be surprisingly enjoyable for him, precisely *because* he had no familiarity with, or emotional investment in, the main characters!

That's when a light bulb went off in this lady's head! Why should I fantasize about writing the canon versions of my favorite superheroes when I can write them as fan fiction with no editorial interference? And by the same token, why should I worry about editorial meddling *if* I were to get my supposed dream gig, when I could make good money writing other IPs that I'm far less passionate about for the sheer joys of polishing my craft *and* being able to pay the bills and maybe even have a little bit left over for mad money?

I am well aware that it is quite possibly naïve and overly optimistic on my part to believe that I can start a new career as a freelance writer at age forty-two, but, really I've got nothing to lose -- no kids, no partner, no siblings, no dependents of any kind -- and lots to gain, especially if I do succeed at making at living out of doing something I genuinely enjoy.

But whether or not I succeed at it, fan fiction *will* remain a constant. To reiterate, why would I want to risk getting my heart broken over not getting to write a beloved IP the way I want to, when I can do the same thing any way I want to, just so long as I don't try to profit from it?

So now, we finally arrive at my question (and if you've managed to hang in there, Gods bless you and thank you for your patience.) The question is:

Would anyone here be interested in attempting a little fanfic exercise, where we would make a random list of superheroes and superhero teams, and we each pick one that doesn't mean that much to us, and then we each write a done-in-one fic with the character or team in question? I think it'd be both fun and a good way to polish our craft.

Thoughts?


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Re: The Writers' Discussion/Ideas Thread
Fanfic Lady #909674 09/18/16 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Fanfic Lady


Would anyone here be interested in attempting a little fanfic exercise, where we would make a random list of superheroes and superhero teams, and we each pick one that doesn't mean that much to us, and then we each write a done-in-one fic with the character or team in question? I think it'd be both fun and a good way to polish our craft.

Thoughts?


I've been tossing around this alternate-version of Emerald Twilight in my head for about a year now, but school and internship apps have just kept me from sitting down and writing it. sigh


Keep up with what I've been watching lately!

"Where have you gone, Joe DiMaggio? Our nation turns its lonely eyes to you."
Re: The Writers' Discussion/Ideas Thread
Invisible Brainiac #909678 09/18/16 02:42 PM
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It's cool, Kappa, it will happen when it is meant to happen. One question, though: I know you're a dyed-in-the-wool Hal fan. Would your alternate Emerald Twilight end in a similar way to what Gerard Jones had plotted before he was shit-canned off the GL book, with Hal going solo as the Protector and Kyle still replacing him as GL?


Read LEGIONS OF 7 WORLDS in the Bits forum:

Retroboot (Earth-7.5) Arc 1 (COMPLETED)

Retroboot (Earth-7.5) Arc 2 (WORK IN PROGRESS)

"Don't look for role models, girls, BE the role model."

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Re: The Writers' Discussion/Ideas Thread
Invisible Brainiac #909680 09/18/16 02:47 PM
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It would be sort of a combination of the original Jones script plus some elements lifted from GL: Rebirth.


Keep up with what I've been watching lately!

"Where have you gone, Joe DiMaggio? Our nation turns its lonely eyes to you."
Re: The Writers' Discussion/Ideas Thread
Invisible Brainiac #909681 09/18/16 02:52 PM
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NICE! You've sold me on it. nod

Like I said, when it's meant to happen, it'll happen.

But what I was proposing was for each of us to write a character or team that we *do not* care about that much, if at all, and see what kind of weird and wonderful stuff we can dredge up and out of our minds...


Read LEGIONS OF 7 WORLDS in the Bits forum:

Retroboot (Earth-7.5) Arc 1 (COMPLETED)

Retroboot (Earth-7.5) Arc 2 (WORK IN PROGRESS)

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Re: The Writers' Discussion/Ideas Thread
Invisible Brainiac #909692 09/18/16 03:19 PM
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That's a very interesting exercise, Fanfie! Would love to see work from you and Kappa. I also love (and agree with) your point that writing fanfic, though not profitable, frees us from editorial shackles and allows us to reach fulfillment.

unfortunately, I'm a bit tied up in real life now and can't commit to this exercise. But it's a very interesting one and I would love to read any work that comes from it.

Re: The Writers' Discussion/Ideas Thread
Invisible Brainiac #909722 09/19/16 12:44 AM
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Thanks, Ibby. And I hope you can join in once you find a window of time.


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Retroboot (Earth-7.5) Arc 1 (COMPLETED)

Retroboot (Earth-7.5) Arc 2 (WORK IN PROGRESS)

"Don't look for role models, girls, BE the role model."

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Re: The Writers' Discussion/Ideas Thread
Fanfic Lady #909854 09/19/16 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Fanfic Lady
NICE! You've sold me on it. nod

Like I said, when it's meant to happen, it'll happen.


Well, I guess I'll just have to make time then. wink Keep your eyes peeled for the first part to be posted later tonight.


Keep up with what I've been watching lately!

"Where have you gone, Joe DiMaggio? Our nation turns its lonely eyes to you."
Re: The Writers' Discussion/Ideas Thread
Invisible Brainiac #909858 09/19/16 11:36 AM
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YAY! Splendid, simply splendid! I eagerly await it, Kappa. nod


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Re: The Writers' Discussion/Ideas Thread
Invisible Brainiac #917067 11/27/16 06:53 AM
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I need help with character design. This is usually the easiest part for me, but I have run into a problem with this one. The character I have in mine is a daughter of Wonder Woman and Batman, from what I want to say is the DCAU world. I am thinking that this daughter was dedicated to the Underworld gods in exchange for her life. I think that would be a nice combination of the two characters (Batman is equated with Hades according by Morrison).

The trouble is I am having trouble finding Underworld deities to give her powers. I would appreciate any suggestions. Here are my current thoughts:

Persephone: Invisibility
Hecate: Teleportation
Ananke/Necessity: Wisdom
?: Beauty
?: Agility

Also let me know if I should just ignore the powers for now and explain them later?


Go with the good and you'll be like them; go with the evil and you'll be worse than them.- Portuguese Proverb
Re: The Writers' Discussion/Ideas Thread
Invisible Brainiac #918045 12/10/16 04:53 AM
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Hey, Emily, so sorry I missed your question.

My answer would be to ignore the powers for now and explain them later. Trust me when I say that it's all to easy for a writer to get lost in little details like that, to the benefit of neither the readers nor the writer herself/himself.

I have a new question of my own:

With such a rough year coming to an end, and in the light-hearted spirit of the holidays, I'd thought we should do a light-hearted question in this thread. So here goes:

What are some of your earliest efforts at fan fiction?

Technically, my first one was "Into the Unknown," a Transformers fic from around 2004 (hosted by a site named, IIRC, Legacy of Cybertron, which appears to have gone inactive a long time ago. frown )

The whole idea behind the fic (beyond finally getting a chance to write characters that I'd loved, and still love to this day, since the age of 12) was to explain where all those new characters came from early on in Season 2 without any explanation, and why Skyfire disappeared from the TV series with no explanation, after a few appearances early on in Season 2 (my explanations in a nutshell: the new Autobots had been living on a barren planet they'd colonized and renamed Cybernova, and Skyfire died heroically, fighting a hopeless one-on-one battle against Devastator, to save Cybernova from the Decepticons.)

But if we're going to go all the way back to long before the term fan fiction had been invented, then my first fanfics starred Snoopy & Woodstock, and I did them on a regular basis from at least age 3 to age 9. I cribbed a lot of stuff from comics and books and TV cartoons outside of the Peanuts universe: my favorite segment of the "George of the Jungle" reruns was "Tom Slick," so I made Snoopy a racecar driver, with Woodstock as the head of his pit crew. In place of Tom's arch-foe Baron Otto Matic, I blatantly stole the name Baron Von Crow from Richard Scarry's children's books, but I gave him a whole other personality than Scarry's barely-there cipher, as your basic comically evil German blowhard buffoon, "vit der theek ahk-sent" (if he was specifically influenced by anyone, it was Moe Howard's vicious parody of Hitler in one of the few Three Stooges shorts which I think Stooge haters might actually appreciate as pointed satire.) He had not one but two inept henchmen, a pair of storks named Grullo (who always wore a racing helmet and was moderately stupid), and Grint (who had three large feathers on top of his head and was unbelievably stupid.)

So now let's please hear some similar stories from the rest of you Bits regulars. I'm really looking forward to this. nod


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Retroboot (Earth-7.5) Arc 1 (COMPLETED)

Retroboot (Earth-7.5) Arc 2 (WORK IN PROGRESS)

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Re: The Writers' Discussion/Ideas Thread
Emily Sivana #918048 12/10/16 05:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Emily Sivana
I need help with character design. This is usually the easiest part for me, but I have run into a problem with this one. The character I have in mine is a daughter of Wonder Woman and Batman, from what I want to say is the DCAU world. I am thinking that this daughter was dedicated to the Underworld gods in exchange for her life. I think that would be a nice combination of the two characters (Batman is equated with Hades according by Morrison).

The trouble is I am having trouble finding Underworld deities to give her powers. I would appreciate any suggestions. Here are my current thoughts:

Persephone: Invisibility
Hecate: Teleportation
Ananke/Necessity: Wisdom
?: Beauty
?: Agility

Also let me know if I should just ignore the powers for now and explain them later?


Hi Emily! This seems interesting. I think (and I have a different take from Fanfie) that it would be good to have a listing of your character's powers given how important it is to her character. My answer would be different if you were introducing a team/group bit by bit.

I found a link on the Greek Underworld: http://www.theoi.com/greek-mythology/underworld-gods.html

Cronus was the god of time, and king of the Elysian Islands, home of the blessed dead. Have you considered some time manipulation powers? That could fit into the underworld theme - maybe she can slow down time especially around people who are dying?

HEKATE (Hecate) was the goddess of magic, witchcraft, the night, moon, ghosts and necromancy. How about intangibility?
Speaking to spirits? Maybe she can glow with the light of the moon?

The Fates are mentioned. Maybe she can see the destiny of people - like how they are destined to die, and when?

HYPNOS was the god or personified spirit (daimon) of sleep. What if she can induce sleep? Or invade the dreams of others?

NYX was the goddess of the night. Darkness powers? Invisibility?




Re: The Writers' Discussion/Ideas Thread
Invisible Brainiac #919856 01/02/17 08:04 AM
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First question of 2017:

What are your fanfic writing plans for this year?

Here are mine, and please reply to them in that thread, so we can keep the topics on-topic.


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Re: The Writers' Discussion/Ideas Thread
Invisible Brainiac #919865 01/02/17 09:16 AM
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Oh Hi Fate. Yeah, I'm making plans...no, not for Nigel... what? >stares< No, Bits plans. I'm tempting you, you say. Well, that's nice of you to say so... oh, you didn't mean it that way did you...? >sigh<

So, things to be derailed in 2017...

- Some LW pet projects (not Bitsy so moving on...)
- Up to #12 in the Retroboot Continued & flesh out roughs for the next year.
- Read this thread
- Read other folks Bits threads & add thoughts (or rent someone else's if they're better)
- Crossover some Bits stuff into the other forums
- I should really get back to doing some JLA Detroit stuff. I've got it planned out for years ahead. It's the more immediate questions that are an issue like "Just what *are* they doing in Detroit?" and some characters who need a DC niche to have any point to them. I did like getting the Supergirl issues, oddly enough. J'Emm less so. But retroboot first.


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Re: The Writers' Discussion/Ideas Thread
Invisible Brainiac #919866 01/02/17 09:23 AM
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Re: Nigel, pssst...Cleome J'ADORES Andy, Colin and their revolving door of other band members. You might wanna post some of their videos in The Anywhere Machine forum.

Up to #12, awesome!! nod


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Re: The Writers' Discussion/Ideas Thread
Fanfic Lady #919870 01/02/17 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Fanfic Lady
Re: Nigel, pssst...Cleome J'ADORES Andy, Colin and their revolving door of other band members. You might wanna post some of their videos in The Anywhere Machine forum.


Gee, I dunno if I'll have time 'cause... I'm enlisting, overseas aid...


"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
Re: The Writers' Discussion/Ideas Thread
thoth lad #919874 01/02/17 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by thoth lad
Originally Posted by Fanfic Lady
Re: Nigel, pssst...Cleome J'ADORES Andy, Colin and their revolving door of other band members. You might wanna post some of their videos in The Anywhere Machine forum.


Gee, I dunno if I'll have time 'cause... I'm enlisting, overseas aid...


Ah, no worries, 'cause Sgt. Rock is going to help you and you'll get back to Legion World safe & sound. smile


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Re: The Writers' Discussion/Ideas Thread
Invisible Brainiac #919875 01/02/17 12:36 PM
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Emily, hi there, I'm going to suggest a middle ground from IB and FLs suggestions in that you may want to have in your mind clear abilities for your character, and only allocate a definite source for the main one or two, but after that keep it a bit vague, hint around who may be the source but let the reader work it out. The reason I'm suggesting this is from my spotty memory of Greek and Roman mythology the underworld was very mysterious so us mortals would not know what we would find there, so anyone who had spent time there and returned would have access to dieties and spirits, etc. that we wouldn't know about. Introduce new underworld characters too if you feel like it, there's been 2500 years since anything new was written about it after all. That would be how I'd approach it anyway. Hope this helps.

FL, my plans for 2017 in Bits is to finish Legion World 4 as last year was so chaotic I never got the chance to get stuck into it as much as I wanted. After that I have big and scarey plans for part 5 that I've loosely drafted out, so hopefully I get on with that too.

And I'll read everyone else's stories and hope they aren't using characters I'm planning on using. I'm looking at Raz now,as I hoped to introduce a Universo story but its been placed on the backburner now.

Happy, creative 2017 to you all.

Last edited by Harbinger; 01/02/17 01:00 PM.

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Re: The Writers' Discussion/Ideas Thread
Invisible Brainiac #919876 01/02/17 01:04 PM
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Tell you what, Harbi (Happy New Year, BTW smile ), I'll send you a PM right now with the character's I'm planning to use. I'll have it on its way in less than 10 minutes. Lazon


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Re: The Writers' Discussion/Ideas Thread
Invisible Brainiac #919879 01/02/17 01:31 PM
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You don't have to do that FL, thought thanks for the offer. I like seeing how we each interpret the characters as we write them. I had a post ready to go and was reading Raz's just before I posted it and he introduced Universo, so until that storyline is finished I'll wait so as not to confuse anyone. It was just a moment of synchronization that happen from time to time.


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Re: The Writers' Discussion/Ideas Thread
Invisible Brainiac #919881 01/02/17 01:33 PM
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Ah, OK. Well, there's a couple non-Legion related things at the beginning and the end of the PM that I'll been looking forward to telling you, so please read those and scroll really fast through the stuff in the middle. smile


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Re: The Writers' Discussion/Ideas Thread
Invisible Brainiac #919882 01/02/17 02:09 PM
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How bizarre, it hasn't turned up yet, I wonder if that's because I'm using my phone? You'll get a reply as soon as I have it FL.


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Re: The Writers' Discussion/Ideas Thread
Harbinger #919883 01/02/17 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Harbinger
Emily, hi there, I'm going to suggest a middle ground from IB and FLs suggestions in that you may want to have in your mind clear abilities for your character, and only allocate a definite source for the main one or two, but after that keep it a bit vague, hint around who may be the source but let the reader work it out. The reason I'm suggesting this is from my spotty memory of Greek and Roman mythology the underworld was very mysterious so us mortals would not know what we would find there, so anyone who had spent time there and returned would have access to dieties and spirits, etc. that we wouldn't know about. Introduce new underworld characters too if you feel like it, there's been 2500 years since anything new was written about it after all. That would be how I'd approach it anyway. Hope this helps...


Thank you for the feedback. I have been busy so I haven't been working on this idea lately. I am thinking of trying to revive RPGs on this site, so I might use the character there. I am generally good at developing characters and settings, but I usually need prodding to finish a story.


Go with the good and you'll be like them; go with the evil and you'll be worse than them.- Portuguese Proverb
Re: The Writers' Discussion/Ideas Thread
Harbinger #919892 01/02/17 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Harbinger
How bizarre, it hasn't turned up yet, I wonder if that's because I'm using my phone? You'll get a reply as soon as I have it FL.


That really is bizarre, I don't have it in my list either. Some kind of interweb-glitch, I guess. I only stopped by her for a couple minutes before I go to sleep, so I'll send you a new, improved PM tomorrow. smile


Read LEGIONS OF 7 WORLDS in the Bits forum:

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Re: The Writers' Discussion/Ideas Thread
Invisible Brainiac #919985 01/03/17 11:41 PM
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Harbi, I just sent you the new PM. Please let me know right away if you have any problems with it like you did with the last one.


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Re: The Writers' Discussion/Ideas Thread
Invisible Brainiac #924866 03/31/17 08:15 PM
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Any of you ever linger on the last couple chapters of a story, polishing and refining them over and over and over, almost as if, in some twisted way, you don't want to finish the story?

That's where I think I am right now. Help!


Read LEGIONS OF 7 WORLDS in the Bits forum:

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Re: The Writers' Discussion/Ideas Thread
Invisible Brainiac #924867 03/31/17 08:18 PM
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Shoot the dog. smile


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Re: The Writers' Discussion/Ideas Thread
Invisible Brainiac #924869 03/31/17 08:21 PM
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LOL lol

There is no dog.

Unless Mad Harriet of the Female Furies counts? She could certainly give a rabid dog a run for his or her money.

Seriously, though, laughter really is the best medicine. It helps me relax, which in turn helps me put less pressure on myself.

Thanks, He Who. smile





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Re: The Writers' Discussion/Ideas Thread
He Who Wanders #924888 04/01/17 06:55 AM
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Originally Posted by He Who Wanders
Shoot the dog. smile


And save the cat? hmmm


Keep up with what I've been watching lately!

"Where have you gone, Joe DiMaggio? Our nation turns its lonely eyes to you."
Re: The Writers' Discussion/Ideas Thread
Invisible Brainiac #924889 04/01/17 07:29 AM
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Always save the cat. Whizzy


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Re: The Writers' Discussion/Ideas Thread
Fanfic Lady #924896 04/01/17 08:42 AM
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Save the cat, save the world? (that would make an interesting story)

Fanfie asked earlier about plans. I have been so busy with schoolwork and job-hunting that I haven't even been able to think of my plans! But I do have a very short break coming up, during which I hope to:

1) Write a couple of chapters for my Reboot Legion fic, including at least tying up the trip to Southeast Asia and the trip to Enwa subplots;

2) Catch up and comment on all of your stories (I have read bits and pieces of most of your work - Fanfie, Harbi, raz, Omni, thoth) but haven't been able to write my comments down

Fanfie also asked about previous fanfic attempts. I once tried to write a fanfic set in my high school, but only got a couple of chapters out. Our class had to put on a play for school, I made a script that was read to the class - it made a lot of people upset because it only included 12 people out of 40 tongue other than that, everything I've done has been here on LW, either in the LMB-verse or in the Reboot reality


Re: The Writers' Discussion/Ideas Thread
Fanfic Lady #924910 04/01/17 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Fanfic Lady
LOL lol

There is no dog.

Unless Mad Harriet of the Female Furies counts? She could certainly give a rabid dog a run for his or her money.

Seriously, though, laughter really is the best medicine. It helps me relax, which in turn helps me put less pressure on myself.

Thanks, He Who. smile





That's what I'm here for. (That and to over-analyze 40-year-old comic book stories.) wink

On a serious note, it's easy for the writer to fall in love with his or her story and not want to end it or drive it where it needs to go. This is where Stephen King's maxim comes to mind: "Murder your darlings." Be willing to break your own heart so you can break the reader's. Take it out and stomp it on the ground, and twist it into little pieces.


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Re: The Writers' Discussion/Ideas Thread
Invisible Brainiac #924929 04/01/17 05:35 PM
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Thanks, Ibby. Looking forward to your comments.

He Who, I do believe I'll pretend that my story is the head of the office manager who railroaded me into quitting my last day job. smile

All kidding aside, He Who, your advice is much appreciated, and I am already putting it into practice.

Another thing I like to do is to loosen up by brainstorming a new fan fic just for the fun of it. Picture this -- "DCU Elseworlds: Reign of the Superwomen -- 'Who is the real Superwoman, out of the four contenders who emerged after the heart-wrenching death of Kate Carr/Superwoman? Is it (Don't-Call-Me) Supergirl, the feisty emo-androgyne? Is it Cyber-Queen, the icy, pragmatic post-human? Is it Iron Maiden, the armor-clad avenging angel? Is it Goddess-4000, the self-styled Woman of Tomorrow? Stay tuned.' "


Read LEGIONS OF 7 WORLDS in the Bits forum:

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Re: The Writers' Discussion/Ideas Thread
Invisible Brainiac #934068 07/17/17 03:14 PM
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I thought, for the sakes of both my fellow regular contributors to Bits, and the readers following my fics, that I would share the current status of my fic projects, starting, of course, with the ever-elusive resolution to the Legion/New Gods story arc -- I finally finished the penultimate chapter, only to find that the wrap-up persists even more stubbornly in refusing to come together. So, basically, I am setting it aside, along with all my other DCU fics, indefinitely. Now I'm trying to recharge my batteries by starting a Non-DCU fic. It's going well so far, and that's just about all I want to say for the moment, out of worries that I might jinx it if I give away too much. It will be hosted by a site run by a friend of mine, and I'm not going to submit any of it until the story is complete.


Still "Fickles" to my friends.
Re: The Writers' Discussion/Ideas Thread
Invisible Brainiac #934778 07/27/17 06:43 PM
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Some of you may have noticed the debut of my new Onevision today, "Time Leaves Its Scars". The basic idea has been percolating in me for a year or so, maybe longer. Last night, for whatever reason, I had trouble going to sleep because the ideas for it started just bubbling over. I didn't know that I would start it today. I think that somehow today's death of one of our beloved posters necessitated that I go ahead and start it, maybe as some sort of coping mechanism. He even made it into the story which wasn't intended. Anyhow, the story is not fully formed in my mind, but the ideas are coming hard and fast. I'm not sure how long it will be, when it will conclude or exactly how it will end, but it is what it is.

Anyhow, I just felt I had to say a little something about it.


Still "Lardy" to my friends!
Re: The Writers' Discussion/Ideas Thread
Invisible Brainiac #934795 07/28/17 02:18 AM
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I'm happy you are writing again, Lardy. I enjoy your writing style, and it also somehow seems fitting for today, if you know what I mean.

Looking forward to the next installments

Re: The Writers' Discussion/Ideas Thread
Invisible Brainiac #934803 07/28/17 05:31 AM
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I finally started writing again.

It's intended to be a three part story, starting with a storyline involving Mekt, called the Legion of Lightning, as he decides to create his own family, his birth family having 'betrayed him' (by his standards).

I'm taking a bit of a chance in starting out dealing with Mekt and some original characters, with minimal Legion presence. They'll show up eventually, and everybody will be kung-fu fighting. But with lightning. smile


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Re: The Writers' Discussion/Ideas Thread
Invisible Brainiac #934810 07/28/17 06:01 AM
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Lardy, Set, way to go, guys!

Will read the opening installments of your stories this weekend.


Still "Fickles" to my friends.
Re: The Writers' Discussion/Ideas Thread
Invisible Brainiac #934862 07/28/17 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Invisible Brainiac
I'm happy you are writing again, Lardy. I enjoy your writing style, and it also somehow seems fitting for today, if you know what I mean.


What really seems weird is how my mind was racing about the story the night before, keeping me awake. I mean, in the moderator's forum, I was the first to express concerns over Abin about a week ago when some cryptic Facebook posts started popping up on his wall, vaguely hinting that something might be wrong. But there had been nothing concrete. So I woke up, feeling like I might have to start writing this thing, and suddenly I learn that Abin/Chuck has passed. It's almost as if he was passing away and leaving me with the drive or push to tell an LW story again for the first time in years. When I learned he had passed, I just knew I had to start writing it. It's a weird way for me to respond to the death of a beloved LWer, but it seemed wholly appropriate.

If it is from him, I'm grateful for the gift!

Quote
Looking forward to the next installments


Thanks! There's SO much exposition that I hope it doesn't bog it down! It's hard to tell a story that flashes from one year to several to show what happens over decades without having to explain a lot!


Still "Lardy" to my friends!
Re: The Writers' Discussion/Ideas Thread
Lard Lad #934876 07/28/17 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Paladin
Originally Posted by Invisible Brainiac
I'm happy you are writing again, Lardy. I enjoy your writing style, and it also somehow seems fitting for today, if you know what I mean.


What really seems weird is how my mind was racing about the story the night before, keeping me awake. I mean, in the moderator's forum, I was the first to express concerns over Abin about a week ago when some cryptic Facebook posts started popping up on his wall, vaguely hinting that something might be wrong. But there had been nothing concrete. So I woke up, feeling like I might have to start writing this thing, and suddenly I learn that Abin/Chuck has passed. It's almost as if he was passing away and leaving me with the drive or push to tell an LW story again for the first time in years. When I learned he had passed, I just knew I had to start writing it. It's a weird way for me to respond to the death of a beloved LWer, but it seemed wholly appropriate.

If it is from him, I'm grateful for the gift!


Lardy, when I was writing "The Every-Boot Legion Volume 1: To Think Like a God" in 2015, it coincided with our dear Lash's first (and, sadly, not last) battle with cancer. One of the main plot points was curing Tenzil of the effects from having eaten the Miracle Machine. Tenzil, as we all know, was Lash's favorite male Legionnaire. I believe there was definitely some intertwining of fiction with reality going on there at the time. And I also think it may be one of my Top 3 best fan fic stories I've posted at Legion World. It's certainly a personal favorite among my own works. Unfortunately, what makes it bittersweet is that Tenzil got better and didn't have any more problems after that...and Lash was not so lucky. After typing this reply, I miss Lash more than ever.


Still "Fickles" to my friends.
Re: The Writers' Discussion/Ideas Thread
Invisible Brainiac #934879 07/28/17 04:59 PM
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It is nice to have new LMB/LW fiction. I have tried and struggled to write more myself, but I always find it difficult to finish a story.


Go with the good and you'll be like them; go with the evil and you'll be worse than them.- Portuguese Proverb
Re: The Writers' Discussion/Ideas Thread
Invisible Brainiac #934888 07/28/17 05:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Emily Sivana
It is nice to have new LMB/LW fiction. I have tried and struggled to write more myself, but I always find it difficult to finish a story.
The ideas for this one are still coming furiously, and I'm anticipating writing more chapters tonight.

For anyone unfamiliar with the Time War, it is a story that both Ex and Cobie were building toward a few years ago. During the interim, it seems all of the creatives, myself included, of the LMBverse have kind of unilaterally pulled away from those sorts of activities. Hard to say exactly why, but if one or two kind of pull away, it can have kind of a ripple effect with the rest. What I'm telling is not the Time war itself; I really have little idea where the story was going, and I still feel that some day the story will be told in one form or another.

Call mine an offshoot of the Time War, I guess. Maybe it's the real future; maybe it's not. If you've read the existing chapters, you know how Lardy himself feels about the subject, at least.

Last edited by Paladin; 07/28/17 05:32 PM.

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Re: The Writers' Discussion/Ideas Thread
Invisible Brainiac #934891 07/28/17 05:44 PM
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I apologize if my last post in this thread offended or upset anyone. That was the farthest thing from my intention. But I am concerned I might have worded it badly, probably because I'm working through both the recent loss of Abin and the lingering pain of the loss of Lash.

What I was trying to say was that I think there was an exchange of positive energies between me and Lash while I was writing that story, not unlike what Lardy described as Abin giving him the catalytic energy to write his new story as Abin was leaving us.

I hope that makes sense.


Still "Fickles" to my friends.
Re: The Writers' Discussion/Ideas Thread
Invisible Brainiac #934892 07/28/17 05:48 PM
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I don't see anything offensive or upsetting about what you wrote at all, Ficque. I'm sure many creative people deal with grief in similar ways.

I sometimes think someone may read what I shared about Abin and think I'm just trying to promote my story, but that's far from my reason. I just felt like sharing something that I find virtually unexplainable. My story's there for anyone to read, but ultimately, I'm writing it for myself as I always do.


Still "Lardy" to my friends!
Re: The Writers' Discussion/Ideas Thread
Emily Sivana #934898 07/28/17 06:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Emily Sivana
I need help with character design. This is usually the easiest part for me, but I have run into a problem with this one. The character I have in mine is a daughter of Wonder Woman and Batman, from what I want to say is the DCAU world. I am thinking that this daughter was dedicated to the Underworld gods in exchange for her life. I think that would be a nice combination of the two characters (Batman is equated with Hades according by Morrison).

The trouble is I am having trouble finding Underworld deities to give her powers. I would appreciate any suggestions. Here are my current thoughts:

Persephone: Invisibility
Hecate: Teleportation
Ananke/Necessity: Wisdom
?: Beauty
?: Agility

Also let me know if I should just ignore the powers for now and explain them later?


So I just happened to notice this (like a year later...), and if you are willing to go outside of Greek mythology, would recommend Erishkigal (for beauty) and Izanami-no-Mikoto or Maman Birgitte (a voodoo 'lwa' of death, along with Baron Samedi, Baron Cimitiere, etc.) or something for agility (less 'agility' as in the ability to dash forward in startling bursts of speed, from a statue-like state of stillness, more creepy movie-monster 'agility' than would be traditional, but better suited to a death-goddess). I like Maman Birgitte best for that, since the priest 'ridden' by her moves in fantastic and inhumanly flexible ways, a sign of being possessed by the loa.

Obviously Wiki is great for finding death gods with attributes that fit what you are looking for. Keres seems somewhat suitable for 'agility,' if you want to stick to Greek goddesses.

I had, some time ago, imagined what a female version of Captain Marvel, empowered by the six main Olympian goddesses would look like. Her 'Shazam' word would be Ahadah, after Athena, Hera, Aphrodite, Demter, Artemis and Hestia. But I never really went anywhere with it.



Last edited by Set; 07/28/17 06:49 PM.

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Re: The Writers' Discussion/Ideas Thread
Invisible Brainiac #934899 07/28/17 07:01 PM
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That is amazing timing as I have been thinking of writing that particular story again. I will definitely take your suggestions to heart, Set.

She would be a main character of Huntress fanfic with all the different versions of the Huntress. I know there are a few fans around here so maybe I would be able to finish the story.


Go with the good and you'll be like them; go with the evil and you'll be worse than them.- Portuguese Proverb
Re: The Writers' Discussion/Ideas Thread
Lard Lad #935041 07/31/17 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Paladin

For anyone unfamiliar with the Time War, it is a story that both Ex and Cobie were building toward a few years ago. During the interim, it seems all of the creatives, myself included, of the LMBverse have kind of unilaterally pulled away from those sorts of activities. Hard to say exactly why, but if one or two kind of pull away, it can have kind of a ripple effect with the rest.


I think part of it is that our shared universe is so intertwined. It doesn't feel right for me to write an LMB story without at least referencing elements that all of you have created. It feels less rich somehow. And of course there is the momentum factor.

Re: The Writers' Discussion/Ideas Thread
Lard Lad #935050 07/31/17 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Paladin
I don't see anything offensive or upsetting about what you wrote at all, Ficque. I'm sure many creative people deal with grief in similar ways.

I sometimes think someone may read what I shared about Abin and think I'm just trying to promote my story, but that's far from my reason. I just felt like sharing something that I find virtually unexplainable. My story's there for anyone to read, but ultimately, I'm writing it for myself as I always do.


Much appreciated, Lardy. And I'm sorry I haven't gotten to yours and Set's stories yet. I'd meant to have read them by now, but it's been a...shall we say, "interesting" last few days, and finding out first thing this morning about the death of one of my greatest inspirations (see the Anywhere Machine) has just kept me in a weird funk of a state all day and night.


Still "Fickles" to my friends.
Re: The Writers' Discussion/Ideas Thread
Invisible Brainiac #935053 07/31/17 08:08 PM
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Hey, I can't complain. I haven't read your fics like I'd hoped to. I sure can't expect you to read mine when I've been lax with yours.

While it's nice to see my story getting some views, it's even nicer to feel those creative juices flowing again! I've really missed lardy, so it's good to take a longterm look at how his life turns out...if the timeline holds!


Still "Lardy" to my friends!
Re: The Writers' Discussion/Ideas Thread
Lard Lad #935057 07/31/17 09:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Pal-Lardy
Hey, I can't complain. I haven't read your fics like I'd hoped to. I sure can't expect you to read mine when I've been lax with yours.


Ah, yes, my notorious Story Which Refuses To Let Itself End. lol sigh

Seriously, though, I'm hoping to have it finally done by the end of this month, just in time for the Kirby Centennial. But I've learned it's best I not put any pressure on myself -- especially with stories as complicated as that one -- and just let it happen when it's meant to happen.

Originally Posted by Pal-Lardy
While it's nice to see my story getting some views, it's even nicer to feel those creative juices flowing again!


I know exactly what you're talking about. Yes, there's nothing quite like that feeling. It's downright transcendental. nod


Still "Fickles" to my friends.
Re: The Writers' Discussion/Ideas Thread
Invisible Brainiac #936243 08/19/17 04:21 PM
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I surrender!

Real Life, not so much my personal life as just the world in general, has gotten so unpleasant in the past few weeks, that I just can't go any further with the Legion/New Gods story, or, really, anything that involves continuity (be it canon or my own) or shades of gray or pseudo-realism or intense violence.

To everybody who has been following that story, whether you have commented or not, I thank you and I ask you now to please forgive me for not being able to go any further with that story until an indefinite amount of time has passed.

I do take cold comfort in the knowledge that Jack Kirby himself didn't get to complete his New Gods/4th World saga until more than 10 years after its unintentional anti-climax. The last time I re-read Kirby's complete saga, I came away feeling that, for whatever reasons, the final installment -- the graphic novel "Hunger Dogs" -- was actually better-written and more cohesive than the earlier installments.

Hopefully history will repeat itself for my humble (*cough* slightly pretentious *cough*) little fan fiction.

I have a couple other fan fiction projects in the works, but they are of a lighter, brighter, simpler, and (hopefully) more accessible nature than the majority of my Bits contributions to date. And I'm sure you'll understand that I'm in no hurry to get them finished and ready for posting. And FTR, one of them is Ayla Ranzz's biography -- I still think that the scene in the Legion/New Gods story where she opens up to Salu about a past trauma is the best fiction writing I've done to date.

At least now I'll have lots of time freed up so I can catch up on everybody else's fan fictions.


Still "Fickles" to my friends.
Re: The Writers' Discussion/Ideas Thread
Invisible Brainiac #936247 08/19/17 07:57 PM
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Go where the spirit moves you Annfie!

As for "Time Leaves Its Scars", guys, it is NOT done! The reality of returning from a staycation has delayed the next chapter to this point. Plus, though I knew the main thing that would happen in the next chapter, there was an aspect of the chapter that I had to think through somewhat. I've pretty much worked that out, but I just have to fond time to actually write it. I hope to do so in the next week-ish!

All I will say about the next chapter is that Lardy experiences a major life event and receives a special visit from a relative!


Still "Lardy" to my friends!
Re: The Writers' Discussion/Ideas Thread
Invisible Brainiac #936257 08/20/17 06:55 AM
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I find Klar-Ken's recent writing to be very intriguing. I'm planning on trying to start a RPG here in the near future, and your ideas seem similar to my own.


Go with the good and you'll be like them; go with the evil and you'll be worse than them.- Portuguese Proverb
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