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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 12
thoth lad #886623 01/31/16 02:54 AM
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Bernie may be Pollor-izing. laugh


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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 12
thoth lad #886766 02/02/16 10:50 AM
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Superboy 221

[Linked Image]

On the cover, Superboy looks happy to have found someone to be attracted to who isn't his descendant for a change. Brin looks to be the epitome of comic book angst, as drawn by Grell. Of course, we know that Wonder Woman is the last hope of escape in any bondage related cover. But where’s she in the 30th century?

Grimbor and Charma make their first appearances. Grimbor is powerful enough to take down Timberwolf, who has been shown as being strong, resilient and fast to superhuman levels. Charma effortlessly subdues Superboy. No kryptonite, magic or red solar radiation required. It makes a nice change while establishing Charma as a very real threat.


The story features the Fusion Powersphere. Although being a super-futuristic energy source, it still uses lots of lead to conveniently block Supes’ x-ray vision. The Power spheres always had that edge of danger to them. We have had enough radioactive leaks in this century using a fraction of the power one of those things seems to have. In the TMK run, the power spheres did cause immense damage. We’re told that the Legion have a 24 hour watch. It makes you wonder about all the other things the Legion are tasked with. Things that aren’t exciting enough for stories, but vital for UP security. A bright future it may be, but there’s always that dark security undercurrent.

While wondering about the two missing legionnaires, R J Brande is reading the Computo News. It’s nice to see mad supercomputers redeeming themselves through the publishing industry. Presumably, the profits go through Brainy and back into the community to help the damage his creation caused.

But he doesn’t get to finish his future paper, as Charma makes a delivery of the two Legionnaires along with a ransom, to stop them kidnapping others.

Typing of things that the Legion are called on to do, Brande has a Bat Phone in his desk. The Legion appear to their founder (thanks to the origin issue) immediately. Six of them. One more than Swan mandated mission team! Brande sure has some pull.

The story could easily have just kidnapped a few Legionnaires and had the others track them down. Instead, the villains return the heroes with their eyes on a bigger, easier prize. Likewise, the story could have kept Wolf and Supes in containment while the others looked for a solution before their air ran out. Instead, we see three of them use their powers constructively to solve the problem at hand. Both decisions make for a stronger, more interesting, story.

Those not using their powers, show some of their personality. Shady is observant, matter of fact and principled. Ayla is overly protective of Lotus Fruit Lad Brin. Everyone participates in the scene.

Like he does with the Fatal Five, Shooter gives us interesting, often conflicted villains, without interfering with the pace of the story. Charma’s past is full of systematic abuse that is allowed to continue over years with no hope of rescue or freedom. It doesn’t take her powers to have empathy for her.
Grimbor is basically Charma’s dupe. Her powers work on him just as easily as they do any other man. But he has a past that would often have made him a hero. My favourite assassin Golgo gets a mention! He’s a bit like Mister Miracle, if cursed by a Grell ‘70s costume rather than a Kirby Miracle one.

Grimbor is strong, efficient and very driven in what he does, keeping trophies and awards of his success. Even without Charma, he has a plan to take down any Legionnaire he finds. Morrison’s Prometheus seems to be a pale imitation of some of Grimbor’s character.

The pasts of our two villains resonate through their story. The motif of chains is very appropriate for the two as, in the end, neither Grimbor nor Charma could escape from those pasts.

Charma would have felt free with her ransom money. Sure, she wants to use that status for some payback. But perhaps that might have passed. Her actions are changed when she realises that Grimbor is driven by something greater than her control. Perhaps her power had so shaped the reactions she expected to see in others, that she really didn’t understand anything deeper. She’s will have had precious few real interaction in her lifetime. Her partner’s actions push her to the desperate measure of wanting to kill a Legionnaire. She didn’t realise that Grimbor would have kept her as imprisoned as she was in her upbringing.

Charma would never be free, even if she had succeeded here. In her failure, she imprisoned again. Back into another part of the system that traumatised her childhood.

Grimbor’s drive to be a master craftsman led him to failure here. Or, to be more precise, to be able to show that he was a master craftsman led to his failure. Having captured the legion, he simply couldn’t let that moment pass. He wanted to memorialise it as one of his many trophies. Just as he wanted to do with Charma.

Money meant less to him. Charma’s power meant less. Certainly any real relationship they may have had meant nothing compared to his real obsession. The heroes’ obsession with Charma caused them to fail throughout. Grimbor’s obsession with his vocation led to his.

But it’s not all about the villains. Light Lass and Salu are the ones who come up with plans to take down the crooks. Ayla’s fails because both Brin and Grimbor react to her fight with Charma. That brings them both into the sphere of Charma’s power. Charmas vengeful kick at the fallen Ayla, lets the reader know just how spiteful Charma has become.

It’s Violet who saves the team in a very strong issue for her. She’s practical, uses her powers well and is able to think quickly on her feet. “That you Superboy? It’s all over!”

In summary, it’s a story with fairly pedestrian premise. Shooter doesn’t add twists, but moves the story along a different path early on. It’s the characters that shine through in this one, more than the story, making it well worth reading. Everyone has a role to play. All of those roles are proactive, to varying levels of success for the individuals concerned. Even Superboy gets to play a full part in the story, thanks to Charma’s powers.

It’s a shame there wasn’t a Legion relationship to show the chains around, in the same way as we see with the villains. There’s a strong link between Brin and Ayla throughout. But neither Ayla’s over protectiveness nor Brin’s enraged reaction (he’s just as made as a conditioned Grimbor) to a threat to Ayla is looked at.


"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 12
thoth lad #886781 02/02/16 02:26 PM
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221:

Pedestrian premise? Perhaps, but Shooter makes the most of it. I think this is one of the best-written stories we've had in quite some time. After bringing back the Fatal Five a few times and introducing a few one-note villains such as the rejected applicants in 212 and Benn Pares in 213, the creative team apparently was tasked with inventing some new super-villains for the Legion. Shooter delivers in spades. As you noted, Charma and Grimbor have complex personalities, and they are formidable threats. If they had been able to overcome their individual obsessions, they might truly have defeated the Legion.

I like it that Charma simply walks into Brande's office, delivers her demand, and drops off the two Legionnaires encased in high-tech boxes. This shows how confident she is. No need to keep TW and Supes for ransom when she can waltz in anywhere and demand what she wants.

It also feels very real that she would want to kill a Legionnaire to force Grimbor to do her bidding. Charma, sadly, never knew any other kind of life but violence and manipulation. When Grimbor throws off her control, she doesn't know how else to react.

Grimbor is indeed a dupe, but he knows he's a dupe and has plans to take control of the situation. The ending suggests he planned to make Charma his sex-slave, which ties into a rather interesting conception about Shooter.

Those who ascribe misogyny to Shooter will find plenty of evidence in girls getting punched and kicked by other girls, as well as by enthralled male Legionnaires in this story, yet everything here fits the needs of the story. Perhaps this is just more of that '70s equality we've talked about before, e.g., if guys can be knocked around, so can girls. Of course, there is also all of that bondage in the story, as well. But if you've got a chainsmith as a villain, that goes with the territory.

The Legionnaires aren't as well developed in this story, but then it's mainly Charma and Grimbor's story, not theirs. It is the villains who want something, and the Legionnaires (and the villains' obsessions) that get in the way. That's not a failing by any means: It's good to have a story with clear protagonists who can (and do) lose. In an odd sort of way, I actually felt sorry for both Charma and Grimbor.

Of course, there are a few standout Legionnaire scenes, such as Brin and Ayla sharing a kiss before going into battle, and Brin's tender cradling of Ayla after he's been brainwashed into slugging her. And Shrinking Violet wins the day by playing a very dangerous but ultimately successful gambit.

All in all, I was very impressed while re-reading this story.


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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 12
thoth lad #886793 02/02/16 11:59 PM
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There aren't many single issue Legion stories that stand out, but this is one of them.

It's hard to forget the tale of Grimbor and Charma. It's a very sad story – and a little creepy. Charma was a maneater extraordinaire; Grimbor, the craftsman, had become able to resist her to some degree although entranced by her. He claimed to love her, but his love for his craft led him to defy her in the end. She only wanted money in exchange for the imprisoned Legionnaires; he wanted to keep them as the ultimate proof of his mastery.

Strangely, R.J. Brande didn't seem to be so overwhelmed by Charma. Was it because she didn't turn on her powers fully with him, or he was sometimes at a distance from her, or she had less effect on old men? It could have been a great hint at a future story if we saw that Chameleon Boy, as neither male nor female in the human sense, wasn't affected by her either. Brande wasn't recognized as a Durlan at this point in Legion history, but if both Cham and R.J. resisted her, readers might have started wondering about R.J.'s origin. Chameleon Boy wasn't in the story, and Charma didn't go after Brande's money directly, so this storyline only happened in my mind.

It was a terrible ending; Grimbor enchained Charma in power-nullifying restraints, so that she would be forced to stay with him and exercise no power over him. She is more sinned against than sinning.

Thoth makes a good point that this is one of the few instances in which kryptonite isn't used to bring down Superboy. Could Charma be considered magical? She'd certainly be described as a witch by the girls.

HWW mentions Charma's confidence. I hadn't thought about that before, but she is sure of herself (which, as HWW also points out, destabilizes her when her control of Grimbor fails). This indicates that she must have had some history/practice with controlling men for her own gain. Perhaps she controlled SP officers so well that they kept no record of her previous crimes.

The use of the halo around Charma's head as always struck me as inspired. Angelic, isn't she? I wonder if females see that halo, or only males?




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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 12
thoth lad #886805 02/03/16 06:20 AM
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Maybe females see horns. smile

Cham is in the story. Grimbor encases him in a plastic bag! And, yes, Charma did have an effect on him.

I also wondered about Brande not being affected by Charma's power. Charma could have simply "asked" Brande for 100 million (or a trillion) dollars, but perhaps she and/or Grimbor thought of it as more a challenge to use extortion.


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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 12
thoth lad #886807 02/03/16 08:23 AM
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Missed Cham on the reread! There goes another fine theory... smile



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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 12
Fat Cramer #886851 02/04/16 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Fat Cramer
Strangely, R.J. Brande didn't seem to be so overwhelmed by Charma. Was it because she didn't turn on her powers fully with him, or he was sometimes at a distance from her, or she had less effect on old men?


Brande did fall for Charma's power. He's shouting at her when she, and her henchmen and boxes, go into her office. We see that halo effect and Charma saying "Please don't shout at me, sir" and RJ is suddenly "terribly sorry." It's just that Charma doesn't push her powers to demand the money. Perhaps Grimbor had more of a hand in the plan, making sure he could capture the Legion by just getting Charma to deliver the demands.

Originally Posted by Fat Cramer
It could have been a great hint at a future story if we saw that Chameleon Boy, as neither male nor female in the human sense, wasn't affected by her either. Brande wasn't recognized as a Durlan at this point in Legion history, but if both Cham and R.J. resisted her, readers might have started wondering about R.J.'s origin.


But let's go with this instead. It would have been an interesting nod to RJ's origin. But even though Reep was affected, RJ could still have been resistant.

Despite being a Durlan, Reep has always chased after human/ humanoid girls from Princess Elwinda to Janice Warren. Perhaps it's him becoming like the other male Legionnaires. They're all very interested in girls, so Reep is too. Durlans may adapt mentally to roles as well as physically.

Later, when Reep knows his father, he adpats to become more like him to run the company. He wasn't particularly business oriented before that. So, Reep may be more susceptible to Charma's charms due his self conditioning to be a bit more like the other Legionnaires he's adapting to be like. Just a thought.

RJ's past was a bit unknown, and he may not have adapted in the same way as Reep did, beyond being really close to a moustached Dutch guy presumably.

Originally Posted by Fat Cramer
She is more sinned against than sinning... Could Charma be considered magical? She'd certainly be described as a witch by the girls.


Whatever decisions she made, Charma was never going to be free at the end of this story, and it was sad to see every path end the same way.

I'm thinking her powers are psionic in nature, much along the lines of Saturn Girl. The 30th century doesn't treat them terribly kindly either, having them wear Saturn logos. For those not born on Titan, persecution could be even worse. We got a glimpse of Charma's upbringing. It wasn't at all nice. "Charma's chair" and her headmistress wanting to keep her imprisoned. "Guessing" her power but wanting to keep punishing her. Chilling stuff.

Originally Posted by Fat Cramer
The use of the halo around Charma's head as always struck me as inspired. Angelic, isn't she? I wonder if females see that halo, or only males?


Really glad you mentioned that. It was a lovely touch.


"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 12
thoth lad #886885 02/04/16 11:54 PM
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Originally Posted by thoth lad


Brande did fall for Charma's power. He's shouting at her when she, and her henchmen and boxes, go into her office. We see that halo effect and Charma saying "Please don't shout at me, sir" and RJ is suddenly "terribly sorry."


And I thought he was just being polite....

Interesting possibilities regarding Durlan adaptability. Reep's preference for females continued through 5YL and the reboot; perhaps Durlan behaviour would become imprinted over time with consistent practice. Threeboot Reep was much more fluid.

I tried reading one of those books that inspired (?) R.J.'s speech pattern in later versions. Difficult slogging through the dialect, which someone also described as "elderly Greek fisherman". I've forgotten the name of the trader.


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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 12
Fat Cramer #887011 02/08/16 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Fat Cramer
Interesting possibilities regarding Durlan adaptability. Reep's preference for females continued through 5YL and the reboot; perhaps Durlan behaviour would become imprinted over time with consistent practice. Threeboot Reep was much more fluid..


There was a scene in the latest run, where Vi gets to see Cham's quarters. There's really nothing there. So, there's an indication that Cham's true character isn't quite what you see when he's being an Legionnaire or Brande's son. Not that he's pretending, but it's just part of what he is.

I think Levitz was trying to make Cham a little bit more alien and remote. There was a line about it taking a fake to spot a fake, when Cham spotted that Validus has been replaced by a construct.

Originally Posted by Fat Cramer
I tried reading one of those books that inspired (?) R.J.'s speech pattern in later versions. Difficult slogging through the dialect, which someone also described as "elderly Greek fisherman". I've forgotten the name of the trader.


I've met a few contenders to be RJ Brande across Europe. If you spot a news story about a tourist running around a city centre shouting "Durlan Invasion!" then it's probably going to be me.


"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 12
thoth lad #887086 02/09/16 11:35 AM
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Superboy 222

[Linked Image]

The good news is that racial diversity has reached Metropolis. The bad news is that it’s just so that a black person can hurl rocks at Tyroc. Because having a white person do it would look poor, apparently. Having your only black character hauled off in chains on the splash page seems to be fine however.

As the science police tell the Legion that one of their own members could be behind a series of crimes, we’re treated to some nice Grell panels of future plazas.

Welcome to Element Lad’s Guess the Substance! Here’s some dialogue from a Legion comic…

“Rain—falling unexpectedly!”
“No, it isn’t rain … but something else!”
“EEEEEK It’s sticking all over us!”

Now, what substance is Tyroc raining down across the city? We’ll be back after this comic code embargo with the answer!

Tyroc has apparently turned against the Legion when they refuse to move their HQ to Marzal. Considering some of Brainy’s experiments, this is a let off for Marzal. Our new Legionnaire is off on a rampage through the city, while a couple of the others tell the police that they should never have let him join.

Staking out a park, the Legion manage to capture Tyroc. There’s some nice panels for Shady, who is the one to bring Tyroc down.

But the Legion suddenly, with no preceding panels, provide proof that Tyroc is innocent. The culprit was really using some technology to replicate Tyroc’s voice. The recording device seems immune to the reality warping effect of Tyroc’s powers. Later, the person they say is really responsible, flies out of the cell in Durlan fashion.

Shady is shocked to learn that the Legion made up the whole recorded voice thing, just to get Tyroc out of jail. Despite giving her a disguise, a mission plan, and at least some time enjoying a picnic in a park, the Legion tell Shady that there wasn’t time to let her in on what was going on.

Tyroc really was using his powers across the city. But not against the Legion. He was using them to find a bomb placed in the city. His rampage was just an excuse to avoid raising the suspicions of the bomber, one Fenton Pyke.

Since Shadow Lass could easily have been told what was going on, the middle section of the story just doesn’t work. Had Kal, Jo and/or Lar used their vision powers inconspicuously, to find the device, there would have been even less of a story.

The alternative would have been to build the tension up as the SP closed in on Tyroc, with the Legion trying to keep him free while looking as though they wanted to capture him too. But, in a short story some shortcuts need to be made.

The Legion’s statue fetish is evident again. They have statues of their active members in a hall of fame. I take it everyone gets a statue there, as it would be depressing to be one of the Legionnaires left out.


"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 12
thoth lad #887100 02/09/16 03:18 PM
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222/This Legionnaire is Condemned

Conceptually, this story isn't much different from at least a dozen other Legion stories in which one of our heroes pretends to go bad for the purpose of rooting out the real villain. And it was nice to give Tyroc something to do since he had not appeared following his induction in 218.

I imagine those two impulses were the genesis of this story: Feature Tyroc and return to the traditional hoax type of story.

Yet perhaps the Legion and/or Bates had moved on from the hoax plot as this one feels like someone's decided to go back to kindergarten and relearn the lessons they learned the first time (don't hit each other on the playground, memorize your ABC's . . .). The series really seems to have moved beyond all this, especially as a result of 219 and 221.

Even as a hoax story, it is more convoluted than necessary. Thoth outlines the reasons why the story doesn't work--Mon or Kal could have found the bomb, Shady has to be kept in the dark (pun not intended), etc. And, in the end, nothing really matters. The mad bomber is caught, but, as with Lorca in 217, we have nothing invested in this character. He's just a device to show how clever the Legion and/or the writer is.

As for Tyroc having something to do, it's great that his power was used as a sonar to find the bomb, but, really, I'd rather learn more about him as a character. He remains a cipher: a Legionnaire who does what the plot requires him to do and little else.

It's also great that the Legion has such autonomy that they can create domestic acts of terror, such as disrupting traffic, causing panic and confusion, and destroying trees. With heroes like these . . .

At least there's some really nice Grell art to look at, especially the page of Tyroc fleeing from Superboy and being blinded by Shady.

Once again, the story ends with the Legionnaires slapping each other on the back and a freeze frame. Go to commercial, and then roll credits. Leslie Nielsen's "Police Squad" was just as silly but much more fun.


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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 12
He Who Wanders #887170 02/10/16 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by He Who Wanders
As for Tyroc having something to do, it's great that his power was used as a sonar to find the bomb, but, really, I'd rather learn more about him as a character. He remains a cipher: a Legionnaire who does what the plot requires him to do and little else..


His powers are still undefined. Worse, their effects can be replicated by Jeckie. So why have both? In practice, she casts illusions while he warps reality. As you say HWW, he can do whatever the plot requires of him.

Originally Posted by He Who Wanders
It's also great that the Legion has such autonomy that they can create domestic acts of terror, such as disrupting traffic, causing panic and confusion, and destroying trees. With heroes like these . .


Bohb: You know I quite like the Dominion takeover of Earth.
Dirk: I know what you mean. If it wasn't United Planets brainwashing it was Universo or that Saturn Lady.
Bohb: Or Charma.
Dirk: Well, I didn't mind that one so much... but yeah, every other month. Your thoughts were never your own. And don't get me started on all the capes flying around.
Bohb: Yeah, the UP picked up their insurance, but what about ours?
Dirk: Yup, the Dominion got rid of them, and all the other super pests. It's much safer now.
Bohb: That's the Dominion. Tyranny You Can Trust.

- This was a Public Service Broadcast on Behalf of the Dominion Alliance.


"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 12
thoth lad #887199 02/10/16 12:22 PM
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Life had been busier than ever so I'm a day late and a dollar short on the Grimbor / Charma story but I wanted to add that I enjoyed it quite a bit too. A lot of things stick out, but most interesting is Shooter plays on two very real fears that both genders typical face: some men fear the idea of a woman manipulating them with her sexuality; some women fear the idea of men wanting to harm them, "imprison them" (from the subtle to the extreme) and even kill them. If the youthful Shooter spent a lot of time like Seigel and others before him bringing childhood anxieties to the forefront of the Silver Age stories, the now somewhat older Shooter was now looking at deeper, more adult anxieties.

Lots of things to like beyond that: Vi's asskicking save; Gim, Ayla and others getting good screen time; RJ playing a role that takes more than on sentence to sum up. And the artwork is to die for: Grell's Charma truly is alluring, and he does a great job making her appear vulnerable when she wants to appear so, and then dangerous between scenes.

...now to keep trying to catch up and stay caught up...

Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 12
thoth lad #887200 02/10/16 12:35 PM
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S&LSH #222

I think HWW hit this one on the head: a pretty standard premise for the LSH and DC super teams, but at this point it feels like the series has just moved beyond that. I'd much prefer Tyroc in a more dynamic role than rehashing the same thing we saw every dozen issues from 1958 to the present.

More annoying is the inconsistent usage of his powers which takes me right out of the story.

I do have to echo HWW's comments on the Grell art, particularly the 5th page, which features some dynamic scenes with varying close ups / far away shots and an excellent panel layout. He was on fire at this point.

Also, I like that this issue includes super obscure recurring LSH for Fenton Pike. Years earlier, when I was reading a list of LSH villains I saw his name and saw he was an "extortionist". For some reason, I read it as "contortionist", which would be infinitely cooler. Especially if he called himself "the extortionist who is also a contortionist".

Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 12
Cobalt Kid #887208 02/10/16 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Cobalt Kid
S&LSH #222 Years earlier, when I was reading a list of LSH villains I saw his name and saw he was an "extortionist". For some reason, I read it as "contortionist", which would be infinitely cooler. Especially if he called himself "the extortionist who is also a contortionist".


He gave it up you know. Now he's the ex-contortionist extortionist. But to the customers of his drugstore, he will always be the ex-contortionist extortionist tobacconist.

Excellent thoughts on gender fears Cobie. That gives the story a much more mature theme. Indoing so, it just makes the old, standard stories seem all the more dated as you both pointed out.


"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 12
He Who Wanders #887244 02/10/16 11:42 PM
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The art is quite striking, even some of the architecture is unusual (the Science Police HQ, not the usual monolithic structure).

I was happy to see yet another scene in which a Legionnaire uses a plastic-like full head disguise. It's one of the more common forms of deception in Legion stories.

Keeping Shadow Lass out of the loop was a big sticking point for me; it just made no sense at all. Maybe Cobie's contortionist could explain it.

Originally Posted by thoth lad

The good news is that racial diversity has reached Metropolis. The bad news is that it’s just so that a black person can hurl rocks at Tyroc. Because having a white person do it would look poor, apparently. Having your only black character hauled off in chains on the splash page seems to be fine however.


I hadn't really noticed that until you pointed it out. On that one page is probably more black people than all the previous Legion stories, except for the Marzal tale. Maybe Tyroc has groupies who followed him from Marzal.

Originally Posted by He Who Wanders

As for Tyroc having something to do, it's great that his power was used as a sonar to find the bomb, but, really, I'd rather learn more about him as a character. He remains a cipher: a Legionnaire who does what the plot requires him to do and little else.


Tyroc always remains a cipher. He joins the resistance in 5YL and even becomes President of Earth, but he's still pretty much just a face in a panel. Even in Legion Lost, in which his costume and his powers are greatly improved, his character isn't developed much beyond "not a hothead like the Brin and Drake".

Quote

It's also great that the Legion has such autonomy that they can create domestic acts of terror, such as disrupting traffic, causing panic and confusion, and destroying trees. With heroes like these . . .


The era of no consequences! The Legion was often outlawed, but why were they never sued?


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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 12
thoth lad #887262 02/11/16 07:00 AM
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People in the 30th century don't sue; they become super-villains.


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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 12
thoth lad #887263 02/11/16 08:18 AM
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You're quite right; the motivation of revenge for wrongs (or perceived wrongs) does tend to take the super-villain route. Earth Man's Justice League and Dr. Regulus immediately come to mind. How different things might have been had they all gone to law school instead. Less violence, but stories filled with text pages of briefs and court orders.

BTW, doesn't it look like the newscaster in #222 is wearing a Sun Boy shirt? Must be a fan.


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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 12
Fat Cramer #887272 02/11/16 09:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Fat Cramer
I was happy to see yet another scene in which a Legionnaire uses a plastic-like full head disguise. It's one of the more common forms of deception in Legion stories.



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Brek? Or is it?


Originally Posted by Fat Cramer
The era of no consequences! The Legion was often outlawed, but why were they never sued?


Super powered teenagers active in your city? Don't ask Luthor about getting revenge! Talk to us...for Super Insurance you can rely on.

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...Interplanetary Insurance Inc.


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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 12
thoth lad #887444 02/13/16 03:08 PM
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222/Death of a Legend

Lest we forget, 222 also has a backup story--albeit one which is easy to forget.

The most notable aspect about "Death of a Legend" is that it's the first story since Grell's arrival not feature Grell's art. (213's backup featured Grell inked by Bill Draut.) The art this time is by Mike Nasser and Bob Layton, who provide a different take on the Legion, and not a wholly convincing one. The inks on Superboy on the last page are particularly heavy and amateurish. However, the layouts on some pages are inventive.

En route to the planet Zentor, Superboy, Timber Wolf, and Light Lass watch tapes of the great hero Questar in action and marvel at his exploits. When they arrive on Zentor and meet Questar, however, they learn he is no hero at all, but a writer who wrote thrilling adventures around himself. Even so, Superboy uses one of the Questar's moves to defeat the Every-Ten-Years Monster and shame the populace for deceiving Questar about their intentions just as he deceived them.

This is a rather goofy story that his played somewhat for laughs. The short Zentorian official, Glad Hander (!) reminds me of the Lilliputians in "Gulliver's Travels": small in stature and mind (he doesn't even recognize the name "earth"), judgmental, and wearing a gaudy uniform.

If the Zentorians are Lilliput, then Questar is Gulliver, the giant who is brought low by them. But instead of being made a slave, Questar is shamed into revealing his true cowardice.

It seems cheeky for Shooter to make Questar a writer, as if the message to readers is, "Don't take any of this seriously. It's just a comic book." But even writers can be heroic--when they tackle difficult subject matter and seek to broaden our understanding of it--so Shooter fails to give a good accounting of his profession.

Instead, the story is just an excuse to make the Legionnaires look good, and for Super-Sanctimonious Boy to deliver a lecture about how none of us is perfect.

After Questar's true nature was exposed, one wonders if his next book went to the top of Intergalactic Best Sellers list or was quickly remaindered.


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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 12
thoth lad #887471 02/14/16 03:50 AM
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Originally Posted by He Who Wanders
Lest we forget, 222 also has a backup story--albeit one which is easy to forget..


>cough< >cough<

Death of a Legend

Seeing the Legion watch some kind of media provides more context about the galaxy they operate in. There could be a Legion, but the general public is intimidated by conflicts beyond their control. Perhaps in an uncertain world, with conflicts beyond their control, a lot of people would find a diversion in something else, like romance movies.

But, the holo tapes of Questor in action seem to be popular. The man himself certainly is, getting accolades not seen since earlier Superboy stories. I do note that Questor kills his opponent and that the Legion seem fine with this. His tassels on an otherwise standard Superboy type costume are a nice touch.

It’s nice to see the Legion acting with good grace, when they realise that their Legend hasn’t stretched quite everywhere.

I also liked the idea that the local people would manipulate their heroes into acting on their behalf., So we find a conveniently depowered Superman and a less than genuine Questor. It turns out he had good reason to ignore the locals request in dealing with the Zentor monster.

I chuckled at the change in Questor’s personality. “You wish to help me?” he says heroically, as if he’s about to tell them to not be silly, and get to safety. Instead, he pleads for help as the truth comes out, that he’s not a hero at all. He does have powers but is only able to use them when Superboy subdues the creature.

Questor is someone caught up in a world of celebrity, a world if image where everyone is out for themselves. It has a parallel with pretty much any medium you like today. I’m sure there was enough of it around then that Superboy didn’t have to hit quite so hard with his moral. They didn’t seem to go to half strength with his powers. He tells the reader that they have to see past that, and judge someone by the good they actually do.

At least, that's how I like to interpret it. It could just as easily be Shooter reacting to some criticism and addressing the reader far too directly.

So, there are a few nice moments, and a message that is relevant, even if it’s too bluntly done. Some of those panels could have been used giving Brin something to do. He has super strength and agility, and you’d think he could have beaten the creature.

Nasser and Layton made a decent team, and the art was a plus point, considering the rough edges of early Cockrum & Grell work.

Edit: I did enjoy Glad Hander.


"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 12
thoth lad #887473 02/14/16 04:40 AM
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Originally Posted by thoth lad


Seeing the Legion watch some kind of media provides more context about the galaxy they operate in. There could be a Legion, but the general public is intimidated by conflicts beyond their control. Perhaps in an uncertain world, with conflicts beyond their control, a lot of people would find a diversion in something else, like romance movies.


Quote

I also liked the idea that the local people would manipulate their heroes into acting on their behalf.,


Quote

Questor is someone caught up in a world of celebrity, a world if image where everyone is out for themselves. It has a parallel with pretty much any medium you like today. I’m sure there was enough of it around then that Superboy didn’t have to hit quite so hard with his moral. They didn’t seem to go to half strength with his powers. He tells the reader that they have to see past that, and judge someone by the good they actually do.


All great points. Shooter once again has really good ideas to play with. This story doesn't develop them as well as they could have been, I thought.

It is interesting that the Legionnaires--who live the heroic life--enjoy watching another hero on holo-vids. It doesn't seem so strange, however: My brother, a police officer, enjoyed NYPD Blue and other cop shows.

I, too, noticed that the Legion didn't seem bothered by Questar killing the creature. Maybe they don't hold other heroes up to their standards?



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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 12
thoth lad #887477 02/14/16 08:45 AM
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When the fake becomes real - or has to live up to the fantasy created - has been the basis for a few movies - Galaxy Quest comes to mind. I wonder if this was a different sort of story at the time, however; unusual to have a writer as the central (non-Legion) character as well as the double con. Too bad we didn't see Questar in later Legion stories; he did have a power after all and perhaps went on to develop the courage to use it.

"Super-sanctimonious Lad" - love it! He does all too often deliver the lesson with a super-punch. Super-Sanctimonious Lad didn't give Questar a lecture about endangering the public, perhaps because he used Questar's idea to defeat Every 10-Years Monster.

HWW makes a good point that people can enjoy shows about their own profession. Initially, I found the Legionnaires' admiration for Questar a bit too starstruck, given their own success, but maybe they were just enthusiastic - and Ayla has roving eyes. Brin was right without realizing it: Questar was so good, Brin thought he was just a legend.

Originally Posted by thoth lad
It could just as easily be Shooter reacting to some criticism and addressing the reader far too directly.


I wonder if Shooter was delivering some personal message with this story; there have been a few jabs at fans/readers in recent years within the tales.

Every 10-Years Monster could be making an appearance this December 2016, if he didn't die on the asteroid Questar sent him to.


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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 12
Fat Cramer #887479 02/14/16 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Fat Cramer

"Super-sanctimonious Lad" - love it! He does all too often deliver the lesson with a super-punch. Super-Sanctimonious Lad didn't give Questar a lecture about endangering the public, perhaps because he used Questar's idea to defeat Every 10-Years Monster.


Professional courtesy?


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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 12
thoth lad #887525 02/15/16 07:12 AM
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My "notes" for this back-up essentially have two things written down: I enjoy the idea of Questar quite a bit but thought the story wasn't very well executed. I just wasn't convinced by Superboy that Questar was deserving of our empathy, and felt the people had a right to be angry for his being a hoaxer and a coward.

The second is that I enjoyed the Mike Netzer art quite a bit. He was a terrific part of the artistic trend in comics in the late 70's, when the generation influenced by Neal Adams added their own cartoonish twists to the realist approach. (And an aside, remember when he briefly started to post here during his preacher phase? Weird!)

As usual, you all provide some good commentary on what Shooter may have been attempting to do by giving a story on celebrity and how that almost becomes a prison. In today's world it seems every third book, movie, tv show, comic and song is about that topic so it's one I avoid. But in the late 70's perhaps it was somewhat less pervasive.

Superboy has always been iconic among the Legionnaires but in the Silver Age it felt like he was "one of the group", even if he was special. Lately, it's felt like he is truly on a pedestal among the Legion--more than even just a first among equals. This shift in tone by the writers, if it continues, will certainly be one the reasons he eventually is eliminated from the title.

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