Legion World Forums LEGION COMPANION Dr. Gym'll's Cultural Rarities DC Comics Rebirth

Watched most of the livestream, and it really, really just looks like more of the same. Maybe the story beats will have something to offer, but there was nothing in the Didio/Lee/Johns hype show that I hadn't heard before.

Flogging a dead Super Horse really. What makes this any better than the last lot of reboots exactly? Or the one before or the one before or the one.. and that's just in recent years... >yawn<

... nothing to excite me in DC's rebirth announcements. There are some books I will get, but my response to the aggregate effect of the creative announcements was "Meh"

I'm actually surprised there are no new big name / exciting / "holy shit!" creative teams on the various series. I expected at least a few! It's the usual suspects really.

Priest on Deathstroke catches my interest but I doubt it lights the Internet on fire.

And Rucka on Wonder Woman? Typing those words almost put me to sleep. His first run was good but not in the top 5 WW runs of all time or anything. It's almost so predictable that it's snooze worthy.

It's like whoever was in the break room that day got a series. Guys like Kyle Higgins had diarrhea or had to run home to let the dog out and ended up no longer working for DC.

Meanwhile Dan Jurgens and Scott Lobdell's names accidentally keep getting copied and pasted each time DC redoes this and keep getting the same series.

I'm surprised it's not Cary Bates and Carmine Infantino on Flash or Robert Kanigher on SGT Rock.

Yeah the creative teams did seem like just a slight shuffling
There is no clear vision how this is a "rebirth"

And I'm stunned they could say "we saw the problems with the comics before the readers" ... but still went through with months of bad comics?

I'm looking forward to the first 6 issues of the Titans (just to see them in action together) ... after that the thrill will fade

And some of my fave books - Grayson, Midnighter and Omega Men - are not on the list. Sad.

I think the only thing which really surprised me about the character lineup is something I missed at first - that the main Superman is going to be the pre-Flashpoint guy, with wife & kid...


I don't think it's predictable, if for no other reason than I seem to recall him burning bridges behind him when he left DC last time.

I enjoyed Rucka's prior run, although I agree it wasn't in the top 5 runs on WW or anything. I am interested still in what he does with WW, but, in today's environment, when there is an increased scrutiny on diversity in comic creators... it was really bad optics to let go WW's first regular female writer (I think? Jodi Picoult wrote some, but wasn't that a limited, sort-of-stunt-based writing assignment?) right at the last minute to put yet another white male on the book.

I agree with Cobalt Kid that I expected some "holy shit" creative team announcements, but alas, there were none. Maybe Tenzil ate them all.

Myg, my fave DC books right now are ALSO Grayson, Omega Men and Midnighter. Shame to see them all gone.

And the very idea that DC "saw the problems before the readers" is laughable. I snorted coffee thru my nose when I read that.

Gail Simone was the first regular female writer on Wonder Woman. I've never been a big fan of hers, so maybe that colors my opinion, but I remember thinking at the time (2007?) that Simone was beginning to believe her own hype and her writing was getting increasingly self-indulgent and gimmicky (Etta Candy as Simone's Mary Sue, to cite the worst example.)

Argh! Many thanks, Fanfic Lady, I forgot Gail Simone's run! I used to love Gail Simone (I loved the work she did on Black Canary and her first run on the Secret Six), but don't follow her much any longer (for reasons along the same lines as you mention, Fanfic Lady)... but, man, I really blanked on her WW run. Now that I am reminded of it, I didn't think it was very good.

Well Gail did that story about that awful WW movie that predicted... pretty much everything the Nu52 destroyed regarding Diana.

...

And on a related note, they're bringing Dinah Lance back! Ahahahahaha! CAN YOU TELL I'M NOT UPSET ABOUT EVERYTHING??? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I feel that at this point DC should just become a video game division if it doesn't want to keep telling new stories in this medium. I admit to consuming most of my comic book stories through that medium at this point in my life. Both the Lego and more adult DC games have been excellent lately, while DC comics itself seems lost.

It feels like DC keeps rebooting the universe because they run out of ideas, or the fans complain about changes, or both. I barely keep up with DC anymore because I feel like it is pointless, since they will probably reboot everything again.

You're very welcome, rokk steady. Glad I could be of help.

Discussing Simone's WW run in this thread reminds me of the moment when I knew it was going to be a letdown: in a Q&A with Simone, one fan asked her if Diana was going to battle Circe, to which Simone replied curtly, "No, I don't like Circe." I mean, a Wonder Woman run without any appearances by Circe? That's just wrong, IMO.

Wall of text incoming:

Sorry to hear that most of you guys didn't like the announcements. I caught the stream (it was like 3am and I was high on energy drinks :)) and I think the first half was great. Also, everyone in chat was bashing Scott Lobdell and I felt right at home

Btw, did anyone find it weird that Batman got his own panel/line-up/whatever but Wonder Woman had to share Superman's? If not one of her own (like Harley Quinn got for whatever reason) I feel she should've been with Aquaman and Green Lantern since she only has one series, but hey, Trinity.


I was happy about most of the Bat-book stuff (I think Tynion is fiercely average at his very best and I hate hipster Batgirl, and I'm the target demographic!), and I'm ecstatic that Cassandra Cain, Kate Kane and Stephanie Brown will be used again, and that Tim Drake will probably return to his roots as opposed to being Batman, Jr. but EVEN MORE OBSESSED!. And there's no sign of Harper Row! Hopefully she dies at the end of Batman and Robin Eternal, because otherwise, I feel Tynion would definitely have mentioned her. She's his Mary Sue character that I SWEAR has to be based off a high school crush of his or something. Also, everyone called it, but King on Batman and Seeley still writing Dick is a major plus for me, because those two were amazing on Grayson. I'm, glad King and Seeley are headlining the Bat-books (did anyone else feel like Nightwing was a bigger deal than Tec?), because they clearly understand the characters and relationships in the Bat-family. Oh, and the crowd cheered loudest, not when creators were announced or introduced but when it was announced Dick would be black and blue, and again, I felt I was among my people


I'm glad to see the Superman line back in shape, after what was apparently an awful editorial era. I'm more interested in Pre-New 52 Supes, so I might catch Action Comics. I also like Jimenez's art, so Superwoman is a must get for me, and that was before I saw the costume, which I really like (it's its own thing, while incorporating other elements of the Superman family (I like the colour-inverted New 52 Supergirl 'S')). Oh, and calling it now, she's either New 52 Lois or Lucy Lane. I like Steve Orlando, but the way he talked about Supergirl made me feel like he might make her like she was for most of the New 52 -- punch everything in sight. Also, cover was very... unique. Oh, and I'll probs read Trinity for the art.


I like the Wonder Woman team, but I've never read Rucka's Wonder Woman or Simone's. But they seem to not make her either a fresh off the boat lady or warrior woman cliche, so I'll read it. Plus, Nicola Scott's doing the art, and I love her. She's also really fun irl, so I have a bias there... she really likes talking about butts! It can't be any worse than the Finch run.


Aquaman also seems to be on the road to a full recovery. While I'm a bit disappointed Johns or Jeff Parker aren't returning, Abnett seems to be a Johns-approved writer, so why not. Glad to see Tula returning, because I really liked her rebooted version and it gives us the possibility of Atlantean double dates!


Everything else... eh. I kinda just stopped caring when they revealed Pre-New 52 Wally won't be returning -- though I'm pretty sure he;'s important, given how much Johns teased it and giggled with Williamson over Flash Rebirth -- but even if I hadn't, it all seemed a bit like an afterthought. Flash's villain Godspeed looks cool, but everything else is meh, and I say taht as someone who likes Joshua Williamson's Birthright (well, before I dropped it because I was picking up way too much) and Illuminatti (RIP). Also, his symbol looks like a parody, I'm pretty sure REAL LIGHTNING doesn't have taht much zigzags. Oh, and if they give Linda Park powers (I think she might be the girl on the cover), I'll be pissed. Green Lanterns looks alright, but I'm wary of it after the truly AMAZING amount of crossovers the line had over the last few years (and I read X-MEN COMICS!). Super Sons looks good, and I'll like it so long as it's youthful adventures rather than grimdark Lobdell-ian crap. Titans looks good, though I'm still disappointed in the lack of Wally (which was teased AGAIN here) and I hate Booth's artwork. That is gonna give me PTSD flashbacks to Lobdell's run, and he can't draw Garth's outfit to save his life. Teen Titans... again, don't like New 52 Wally, and the creative team's not for me. Oh,a dn I laughed so loud when Lobdell was put back on Red Hood and the Outlaws. My sis is a HUGE Red Hood fan, and she truly hates Lobdell. I hate him too, but at least they confined him to his own little corner with character I don't care about beyond MAYBE Jason himself (doesn't seem like he'll be getting to escape being badly written via guest appearances in Bat-books, since it RHatO was announced after the Bat-panel iirc, but I'm sure King or Seeley will throw him a bone). Oh, and the talk with Amanda Connor and Jimmy Palmiotti was incredibly cringe-worthy. Connor is just... not funny irl. Then again, I think DC's recent Harley stuff is incredibly dumb and pretty much Daniel Way Deadpool, so I guess her humour's not my cup of tea. But seriously, Tom King was funnier than her.


I'm surprised to hear criticism of Simone's WW run! I've never read it, but I only heard good things. Then again, I think this sit he case where you can't criticise it without being jumped on, especially with Simone's big online fanbase. I've ALWAYS found her to be overrated, and I find her dialogue, at least until her recent Secret Six run, to be VERY awkward. Like, she thinks people talk like internet commentors. It's a problem I've had with almost ALL of her work, aside from both Secret Six ongoings (and even then, the first one kinda still had it). Also, she thinks she's way funnier than she is. I'm not a Wondy fan, but I've always wanted to read her, specifically the Rucka stuff, because I loved his Batwoman and 52 stuff, but I would've read Simone as a second choice.

Haven't seen Circe in an age. Would love to see her again.

I thin she was in the Superman/Wonder Woman arc involving Magog.

Surely there's room to revisit Circe's connections with Comet the Super Horse, which is a direct link to the Legion? What has Circe being doing all these years? What animals will the Legion be turned into? Will Fuzzy Legion be a big enough hit for an ongoing?

I don't think I saw Circe before the Perez WW run. I don't think I have any villains I feel *must* be in something. From the Bat Villain Idol that Emily did, I noted that the Batman books I read first were ones without the overkill (literally or otherwise) of the *big* villains. As long as it's a good story, there's plenty of characters to explore.

Good post Fuzzy. I look forward to hearing what they're like when they're released.

Ah, thanks, Sarcasm Kid, I missed that, haven't been picking up Supes/WW lately.

I'd recommend reading the Perez WW run (though I think it is overrated to some extent, while other flaws were beyond Perez's control and were editorial's fault.) And while the Jimenez WW run gets a lot of criticism, I think it's mostly unwarranted; yes, sometimes it gets awkward and wordy, but it's also one of the few times where WW had the larger-than-life, semi-camp tone that I think works best for her book.

As far as Simone, I'm generally on the same page as you, Fuzzy Barbarian. Even stuff of hers that I really liked at the time, such the "Rose and Thorn" mini-series, does not hold up very well. In fairness, very little that DC published in the mid-2000s and beyond holds up very well, in my opinion.

Circe was an incidental character in the pre-Perez run. His building her up as a villainess to be reckoned with was IMO the best thing about his WW run. Jimenez also wrote Circe very well. Since those are the only two WW runs I find halfway decent, I'm admittedly biased about Circe being THE book's villain.

At this point I'm genuinely sick of the mythology villains in Wonder Woman since at this point DC has run them into the ground. It feels like there's little to no variety in WW's rogues gallery anymore.

I wish they'd bring back the likes of Silver Swan (yes I know the connection to Ares), Dr. Poison, Eviless, Hypnota, Zara, THEM, Veronica Cale, Doctor Cyber, Morgan La Fey or her daughter Morgana.

I wish they'd so stuff with the Holliday College Girls, or even bring back the likes of Queen Desira from Venus.

I'm partial to bringing back Queen Clea myself.

But Circe is still my favorite -- she's above and beyond the other mythology villains.

I know someone who really misses Circe's daughter, Lyta.

Her name IS Lyta, right?

Yes, that's her name.

I don't miss her.

I do miss Lyta Trevor, the way she was before the Crisis ruined her origin and Neil Gaiman dragged her through the mud.

Ahhh Lyta Trevor was AWESOME. I thought Geoff Johns was really going to bring her back in a meaningful way

I don't even know what to expect. I read the Previews advances and NOTHING looks interesting.

I will pick up the Detective Comics because I was a big Batman Family fan (back when it was a comic book) and this holds the same promise. We shall see...