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#899208 - 06/08/16 02:45 PM Re: Re-reading the Legion: Archives Volume 14 [Re: Fat Cramer]  
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Quote
Cramey wrote:
Why are timeline change stories so often negligible? If the Legionnaires remember everything, I wonder why they couldn't have brought this big adventure up in future issues. The cohesion thing again.... Maybe even some lingering resentments against those who didn't believe Superboy, or vice-versa. Ayla was certainly catty enough about how people with souls would help rescue her brother.


That's a very good question. I think the answer is two-fold:

1. If the timeline isn't restored to exactly the way it was, then our heroes have failed, and what kind of heroes are they?

2. In episodic fiction (such as TV shows and comics), there usually wasn't enough time to linger on details from past stories, which might also confuse new or occasional viewers, so introducing a "change" which would have to be explained was a no-no. Novels can get away with this, however. One thing I liked about the Star Trek novel I mentioned at the beginning of my post was that the author briefly mentions Kirk's still conflicted feelings over Edith Keeler from "City On the Edge of Forever." In that story, the time line was restored to normal, but at great personal cost to Kirk. The TV series never had room to explore these feelings, unfortunately.

Lingering resentments among some Legionnaires might have worked as a lasting consequence, but, since Superboy was ultimately proven right, most would have put their feelings behind them.

I'm not sure what sort of long-term ramifications might have worked for this story. One, though, is that I would like to have seen the Controller Trapper be the "real" Trapper. Knowing his identity does not reduce the threat he poses to the team in subsequent appearances. In fact, this revelation might have broadened his character a bit since we could have gotten into the history and motivations of the Controllers and why this Controller was so out of step with their peaceful mission.


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#899217 - 06/08/16 03:34 PM Re: Re-reading the Legion: Archives Volume 14 [Re: He Who Wanders]  
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Originally Posted by He Who Wanders
long-term ramifications


But if Garth and Imra were only married in a timeline that no longer exists, are they really married? And when will we see the wedding that wasn't interrupted by invading Lunarites?


I'm nigh invulnerable. I have the reflexes of an Olympic-level jungle cat. I have the strength of 10, perhaps 20 men: a crowded bus stop of men. But my greatest power is this: when destiny speaks, she speaks to me.
She says hi, by the way.
#899240 - 06/08/16 11:02 PM Re: Re-reading the Legion: Archives Volume 14 [Re: Fat Cramer]  
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Good point! I think we could cobble together some explanation from the next issue, in which they depart from the Legion a second time.


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#899246 - 06/09/16 01:50 AM Re: Re-reading the Legion: Archives Volume 14 [Re: Fat Cramer]  
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Presumably, they were married "for real" since they went to the End of Time and retain their memories of the old timeline. If legal issues were involved, it would be a simple matter to hold another ceremony or have them sign some papers before the start of 237, in which they are shown officially leaving the Legion.

But, yeah, time travel paradoxes are a headache.


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#899299 - 06/09/16 09:48 AM Re: Re-reading the Legion: Archives Volume 14 [Re: He Who Wanders]  
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Originally Posted by He Who Wanders
Presumably, they were married "for real" since they went to the End of Time and retain their memories of the old timeline.


Not married for REAL REAL but for PLAY PLAY?! - paraphrasing a great Lash post that makes me smile.

Imra: It wasn't even a *real* wedding, so I can sleep with whatever Protean I like!
Garth: You do that. After all, I'm not even Garth!
Imra: >gasp< Ayla!

I felt that if they had to stop and explain differences, then the pace of the story would have been affected.

The two weddings happening on the same date is a key example of avoiding that. But it's important to the story that the reader experiences the same surprise as Superboy when he realises that something is very, very wrong with the future.


Originally Posted by He Who Wanders
1. If the timeline isn't restored to exactly the way it was, then our heroes have failed, and what kind of heroes are they?


But what if the hero tries wins, but can't take it back to exactly the way it was. Does not being a master of temporal physics make him a failure? It's a huge cliché that *everything* goes back. Although I think Flashpoint might have played with that, and the Glorithverse certainly did.

But what if the Legion had tracked the Trapper. They do identify him and stop him form convincing the nations to ditch the UN. The future is saved. But to identify him, the Trapper had to begin his chats with the delegates. He has changed their paths, albeit more slightly.

The heroes restore the future, but it's not quite the same. The Trapper's taint has affected things, if only subtly. Are the heroes failures for not being able to paradoxically stop the trapper before his schemes caused their return to stop him?

I do like to think that some comments will make it into the cliques that we see hints of later on.

The Trapper's multiple identities seem to work for the character. It gets a certain "Who is it behind the cowl in this reality?" sort of vibe. Controller, Rokk, Prime, Glorith?

The Controller by itself *should* work better, and has ore jumping off points into other stories from that reveal. But for a recurring time based villain the multi-trapper works fine it seems.


"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
#899305 - 06/09/16 12:04 PM Re: Re-reading the Legion: Archives Volume 14 [Re: Fat Cramer]  
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Just to be clear: I like the idea of the time line being subtly different because of the Time Trapper's meddling, but I don't think DC operated that way then. (Not sure if they do now.) For our heroes to be heroes, there must be a Total Victory. That's also why Levitz went to great pains to explain that nobody dies when the Legionnaires fight the Lunarites (at least none were killed during Garth's maneuvers), even though being at war would seem to justify killing. They are still Legionnaires and the good guys win totally.

It's a tad unrealistic, but such were the expectations of comics and TV heroes then. I recall reading in George Takei's book, To the Stars, that he objected to the scene in Star Trek III in which a burly transporter chief calls Sulu "tiny." Takei felt it would diminish his character (figuratively) if he were addressed that way. Of course that scene sets up Sulu's memorable come back, "Don't call me Tiny," later in the movie--after he has defeated the transporter chief. Takei admitted that the audience's cheers and laughter changed his mind about the scene, but it illustrates, I think, how action heroes were held to an infallible standard.


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#899528 - 06/11/16 09:31 PM Re: Re-reading the Legion: Archives Volume 14 [Re: Fat Cramer]  
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The standard of the times would be the primary reason for no killing, but it would also make sense for a Legion that has formed as a counter-example to warring nations. Pacifists, but realists; they carry guns to disable or for self-defense.

As in the Takei example, the true hero rises above insult and injury.

On the question of subtle changes, it will be interesting to speculate how some of the cliques may evolve out of this time-altered experience. Do Wildfire and Superboy maintain their mutual respect? Does Ayla resent Sun Boy joining Superboy's group; maybe she can explain the others' motivations to herself, but not his? It's hard to imagine someone wouldn't be changed by the events of this issue. At the least, wouldn't you redouble your efforts to work for peace after seeing the alternative?


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#899549 - 06/12/16 05:08 AM Re: Re-reading the Legion: Archives Volume 14 [Re: Fat Cramer]  
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Good point about people being changed at least in terms of redoubling their efforts for peace.

I don't see Ayla holding it against Sun Boy that he chose Superboy's side. 1) She and Dirk haven't had that much interaction, so there's no indication that she would see his actions as unusual or out of character. 2) Superboy was proven right, so that trumps everything else. Wildfire can be a hothead and hold a grudge (at least until he's proven wrong), but it would be childish for any of the Legionnaires to hold onto those feelings past this story.

Ayla's comment about souls and her near-attack on Dawnstar make sense given the emotional pressure she was under. But once her brother is safe and the timeline restored, it would be petty for her to hold her teammates' actions against them.

(Of course, maybe she could be a petty individual, but she's not been played that way.)

I agree that heroes should rise above insult and injury. The Takei anecdote tells us so much about him and how he regarded Sulu, though.


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#899810 - 06/13/16 09:14 PM Re: Re-reading the Legion: Archives Volume 14 [Re: Fat Cramer]  
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#237 No Price Too High by Paul Levitz, art by Walt Simonson & Jack Abel, colors by Adrienne Roy

[Linked Image]

The Legionnaires have gathered on R. J. Brande's asteroid estate to attend a farewell ceremony for departing Garth & Imra. Cosmic Boy presides and presents the couple with a gift, a model of the original club house, which is revealed by their biorythms.

Garth & Imra depart as R.J. muses about them. Suddenly, he falls under attack as his robot guards are demolished by microdroids. As Legionnaires discover R.J. unharmed, a figure appears, encloses himself and R.J. in an energy shield and announces that his name is Arma Getten. He has taken Brande hostage to compel the Legionnaires to find and bring him three objects.

Brainy warns the field is unstable and to touch it will destroy R.J. and Arma; as it is, the shield will only last for a few hours.

Mission 1: Superboy, Sun Boy, Dawnstar and Mon-el go to the Helics star mining operation, which Mon-el visited in #236. Khunds are planning to attack the mine again to seize the star core. Khunds assume that anyone flying in space like Mon-el must be equally affected by red sun radiation. They blast and only Dawnstar evades them. However, Sun Boy was faking unconsciousness, and blasts the Khunds with his own solar energy; meanwhile, Mon and Superboy are recovering. Guided by Mon-el, Dawnstar finds the large drone ship which he had previously disabled. He and Superboy fling it out of that solar system. In gratitude for saving their lives, Director Vxeraz permits them to borrow one of the star core samples.

Back at Brande's estate, the Legionnaires are shackled and learn that R.J., through his Steller Spice Company, bankrupted Getten's father.

Mission 2: At Legion HQ, Wildfire and Projectra are on guard duty; she kvetches about being stuck there while everyone else is at R.J.'s and launches into criticism of Wildfire. An intruder alarm interrupts her. Wildfire races to the source of the problem and lets loose with a blast – but Phantom Girl, Violet and Shady all evade his energy bolt. As Wildfire enters the room, Shadow Lass diverts him with seduction him as Phantom Girl grabs the Quintile Crystal and escapes. Projectra arrives, asks where the crystal is; Violet suddenly grows to full size, grabs Wildfire and disperses him. An angry Projectra is disabled by Shady and Vi, who then join Phantom Girl and leave for Brande's asteroid...

...where Getten is putting on a show for his hostages, constructing a weapon of mass destruction, to be powered by the Quintile Crystal. He has a deadly energy force arm, created by his father.

Mission 3: The third team (Cosmic Boy, Light Lass, Timber Wolf) is in the Kingdom of the Graxls, seeking the Crown of the Graxls, which generates energy, as well as energy trails which capturing ships in what is called the Sargasso Sea of Space. A Graxl ship attacks the Legionnaires, but is overcome by them. The Graxls thus assume the Legionnaires must be the ones who built the massive Crown and bow before them. Rokk and Ayla return to the ship, Brin disables the guards; the Crown is stolen with Rokk's magnetic power, and the Legionnaires take off, with the Graxls in distant and ineffective pursuit.
Back at the estate, Star Boy attempts and fails to attack Getten; Getten observes Chameleon Boy is missing but his robots can not find the Legionnaire.

As the three teams approach Brande's asteroid, Dawnstar senses something is out of place; Superboy confirms that it's wobbling and infers that Star Boy has increased its weight (mass?) as a tip-off. This leads Superboy to deduce that Getten planned to destroy the entire solar system.

Leaving the three objects in space with some of the Legionnaires, a group led by Superboy alights at the Brande estate. Despite the threat to the solar system, Superboy refuses to sacrifice R.J..

R.J. himself pushes Getten into the force field, claiming that no life is worth a solar system's; the field dissolves without harming either of them. After he fails to knife R.J., Getten activates his force arm to destroy everyone. However, the forces come apart, turning Getten into atoms.

Dawnstar reports that he must have been dissolved or teleported away and R.J. laughingly congratulates the team.

Epilogue: Someone explains to R.J. that Cham didn't actually escape; he was disguised as Star Boy. Star Boy could then use his power since the robots were only searching for Cham.

The Graxls are freezing to death since their Crown was taken, but the Legion has returned to help them. Brainiac 5 has modified Getten's doomsday machine, following R.J.'s instructions. The machine is launched into the Sargasso Sea of Space and becomes a star, which will save the Graxls' world.

Comments:

First off, I loathe names like “Arma Getten”, although I recognize that it may have been customary for comic book villains. It makes the story seem sillier than it should be. Now that that's out of the way....

Does Wildfire stay behind because he's just being a dutiful leader, or do these human milestone events disturb him?

Jeckie has gone Full Princess, sulking that she's pulled guard duty – and takes it out on Wildfire by belittling his lack of a body. Cruel! Is this one of the subtle changes that we discussed could result from the Time Trapper's machinations? It's not explained how those two were selected for guard duty. Computer? Planetary Chance Machine? Wildfire's the Leader, so it's his responsibility. If he appointed Jeckie, was it to punish her for something, or maybe he just doesn't like her? For Lu & Chuck's wedding, Mon-el and Shadow Lass stayed behind. Would Val have stayed behind with Jeckie? He isn't at the ceremony – is he back in the 20th century?

In the previous issue, Garth & Imra were leaving on their honeymoon. Is this ceremony held after they return? Or did they get married again on R.J.'s estate, since their time-changed marriage might be questioned? Get married in an armed camp, get kidnapped and nearly end it all in a murder-suicide pact? It's said that the most memorable thing about your wedding is the disaster, but, personally, I'd want to re-do that particular ceremony.

Is Rokk wearing a ceremonial cape? We never saw it again. I like the idea that the Legionnaires would have dress uniforms for ceremonies – but they generally don't, alas. At the ceremony, he's flanked by Phantom Girl and Superboy, the earliest members after the founders (since member #4, Triplicate Girl, is herself no longer active in the Legion). This ceremony reminds us that Cos was the original leader, not just Garth and Imra's first Legion friend.

Watch out!! Imra is wearing a medallion!

That was a very nifty futuristic gift that Brainy invented. Did he get a patent?

R.J. looks very fat, dressed in Henry VIII style clothing.

The attacking microdroids, which Brin refers to as “bugs”, have become a fact in our own time. It's uncanny how predictive the Legion comic could be.

Getten is an all too typical, chatty villain with a quest for vengeance disproportionate to his grudge. The three teams seeking three objects as someone is held hostage is essentially the same story as the JLA-JSA-Legion crossover, with technology replacing magic.

The first team's mission to get the star core builds well on Mon-el's earlier adventure and reminds us that those Khunds are not going away.

The second team's story, which also builds on a prior event with the Quintile Crystal, is actually quite sad: after Jeckie has insulted Wildfire for being a sack of energy, Shady makes a false play for him and Violet furthers the humiliation by releasing his helmet. Will there be payback for all this? He's the leader; couldn't they have explained the situation to him and just taken the crystal? Why would he prevent them?

The third team's mission leaves the Legionnaires with an unpalatable choice: save their financial backer and Earth's solar system, or leave the Graxls with their source of energy and materials. Too bad for the Graxls: they look funny, they're ignorant and R.J. is more important. It's a dog eat dog galaxy.

The wobbly asteroid “tip-off” struck me as very clumsy. It ruined the effect of finding out that Chameleon Boy had impersonated Star Boy, after wondering what the “escaped” Cham was up to. Once again, it's Superboy who figures out the clue.

Dawnstar searches for a trace of Getten, but can't find any. She'll do the same thing in Legion Lost II. I wonder if the Lost writer took that from this story, or if it's just a natural thing for a tracker to do after someone appears to have been blown to atoms. In Legion Lost II, she's scanning for DNA in organic matter; here she's just tracking something unspecified. It's an interesting aspect of her power.

R.J. emerges as the true hero of the story, ready to sacrifice himself for the sake of everyone else. He also is the one who rescues the Graxl's by providing them with an artificial, life-sustaining star.










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#899923 - 06/14/16 11:18 AM Re: Re-reading the Legion: Archives Volume 14 [Re: Fat Cramer]  
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Superboy 238

Ineffectual villain revenge allows the Legion to relive JSA plots as they rescue their founder.

Garth & Imra depart again, but in the correct timeline, this issue. It’s a tearful farewell, as it doesn’t look as though they’re even allowed to visit with the team’s oh so earnest bylaws. There must be marriage cooties in the 30th century the way the Legion make such a big thing about it.

Our villain is Arma Getten. Visually, he makes an impressive first panel. Then you realise he’s just nicked Loki’s costume. His dialogue isn’t great and he has tremendous powers considering who he is. Teleportation, attack droids, assemblers and an energy shield. Despite that power, the corny name pretty much ruins him.

Brainy must be really good with force fields. He can spot an unstable one at ten feet. It must be all the time he spends fiddling with his own force field belt. The Legion can’t rescue Brande from within Getten’s forcefield without killing everyone.

Before Getten tells us his aims, he wants a ransom for Brande’s life. He wants the Legion to emulate a Gardner Fox story. So, they are forced to split into three groups to collect mcguffins.

Following on from Mon-El’s very recent encounter with the Khunds, Levitz switches things, really allowing Dawnstar and Sun boy to shine when the team face them this issue. It’s always good to see Dawny do well, as my early Legion reading was all about her relationship and powers not working. The team retrieve a starcore sample from a grateful mining operation.

The second team infiltrate their own headquarters. Wildfire and Jeckie are there, having a friendly chat. You know, the way friends casually mention that you’re no longer human and when they start referring to you as “creature.” Thanks Jeckie. Both are beaten by Tinya, Salu and Shady.

They don’t bother with explanations, because that would make sense (see Tyroc issue when it looks like he’s a villain.). They just beat their friends. Not only is Wildfire reminded of his inhuman status when Salu opens his containments suit, but Shady flirts with him. Not only will that close contact give him issues, but it being a ruse won’t help his state of mind much either. Shady’s character reinforces the idea that she joined the team to get an attractive mate. The espionage team retrieve the Quintile crystal that appeared in a recent issue.

Like the previous teams, our third, and final, one get to use their powers to good effect. But it’s Brin who gets the spotlight. Levitz reminds us of his loner status, even going so far to have bring think of himself as a “wolf in the fold.” The team steal a giant crown from the Graxls. I thought they were just going to be handed it after impersonated the Graxls gods, but in the end they have to pinch it. Unlike the first two missions, I didn’t pick up a recent Legion reference in this one.

As mentioned, the structure of the story is quite old school. Levitz does also have interludes showing Getten’s goals. He wants the items to power a giant weapon with which he’s going to destroy the solar system. The returning teams are tipped off, because Superboy think that a wobbling Brande’s planetoid can destroy the solar system in a chain reaction. Um…. It’s a plot that’s really not worth dwelling on. It does give us another entry in the Legionniares disguising themselves as each other theme though.

When Brande attacks Getten, the force field is destroyed. As everyone lives, it means that Brainy was incorrect earlier about it killing Brande if tampered with. Had he analysed it correctly, we would have had no story.

Getten produces another couple of wonder items, in an electro knife and a force arm. The use of the weapon inexplicably reduces him to atoms.

Inexplicable just about sums up the plot. We don’t know how Getten got his abilities. They seem to be technologically based. Were they from his father? Was the malfunctioning force arm the reason why it was his dad’s last invention?

What was the reason behind the man’s bankruptcy? We’ve discussed a shadier history to Brande recently. How was Getten’s father ruined?

There aren’t any answers here. Levitz does have more fun with his galaxy building. He plays with sci fi ideas such as Dune’s spice mining to give Brande a history with a Stellar Spice Company. His Sargasso Sea of Space was originally from Charles Fort.

We meet more races and cultures. We also have space to see a few Legionnaires really shine, and the others all get their moments too. Simonsen’s art is not always to my taste, but there are lots of pluses in having it here.

So there are good things. But the villain was a real let down, with a name and plan that just didn’t add up.

To be read listening to Def Leppard - "Armageddon It"


"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
#899933 - 06/14/16 01:00 PM Re: Re-reading the Legion: Archives Volume 14 [Re: Fat Cramer]  
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237:

For me, this issue is memorable mostly because it's the one in which R.J. Brande adopts the persona he has had pretty much ever since: a benign cross between William Howard Taft and Daddy Warbucks. The Henry VIII clothes are a bit much, but his larger-than-life personality and "By damn!" catchphrase befit someone audacious enough to start the Legion.

Otherwise, I agree with thoth and Cramey's assessments: 237 consists of a JLA plot, a ridiculously named villain of unexplained power, and a lot of plot conveniences needed to make the story work.

Once again, the series is caught between trying to pursue more adult themes and having to cater to the younger crowd. Not only is the villain given a silly name, but the Graxls are cute and silly aliens, and even the Khunds take on a stereotypically Snidely Whiplash appearance. But on the other hand, we've got Legionnaires sniping at each other in cruel ways and Shady's come-on to Wildfire for the purpose of distracting him . . . and this is from a writer who purports to be a fan of the Legion. Given how mean-spirited the Legionnaires act, it's a wonder the author isn't Harlan Ellison.

But I did appreciate the teamwork displayed by Superboy's team, and how the story built nicely off of Mon's solo story last issue. It's good to see Dawny portrayed as a competent and resourceful hero.

I also appreciated the ending, in which the Graxls, resigned to their fate, get much more than they bargained for when the "bright beings" give them a sun. This is the Legion doing what they do best: making the world a better place for some (which is fitting, of course, since otherwise they would have left the Graxls to die).

However, it also was a presumptuous gesture. Since the Graxls worshiped the crown, perhaps they didn't want a sun. And just what were the Legionnaires going to do with that crown, anyway? Save it for Jeckie after her head swells to the appropriate size?

This issue feels like it's marking time. When I first read it, it was quite a letdown after the tabloid, which, whatever its faults, was a story worthy of the Legion. However, in the next original story, 239, the Legion goes full-tilt in the adult direction, making this offering even lamer by comparison.






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#900041 - 06/15/16 09:19 AM Re: Re-reading the Legion: Archives Volume 14 [Re: Fat Cramer]  
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Originally Posted by Fat Cramer
Does Wildfire stay behind because he's just being a dutiful leader, or do these human milestone events disturb him?


I meant to mention in my post, but there was something about Shady's words that reminded me of Doctor Manhattan in Watchmen. It was along the lines of him losing his connection with humanity, even to the point where the putting on a pretence of interest is beyond him.

It might have been a powerful arc for Drake to go down. Possibly with Dawny pulling him back in a Quislet generated (and Titan Beast (tee hee) held together) body. Or he would become the Anti Monitor. One of the two paths.

Cramer posting that it may really be happening to Drake, means that Jeckie is making an observation, in the blunt fashion that her upbringing allows.

Originally Posted by Cramer
Watch out!! Imra is wearing a medallion!


That gave me a chuckle. Thanks Cramer.

Originally Posted by Cramer
That was a very nifty futuristic gift that Brainy invented. Did he get a patent?


My brain cell is connecting it to a metallic device years later in the Titans. Was it Minion? It could create battle suits or something. No doubt it could create metallic clubhouses too. I reckon it was something Rokk picked up on one of his secret time travel jaunts. Brainy just reprogrammed it as a toy.

Originally Posted by HWW
However, it also was a presumptuous gesture. Since the Graxls worshiped the crown, perhaps they didn't want a sun. And just what were the Legionnaires going to do with that crown, anyway? Save it for Jeckie after her head swells to the appropriate size?


I sort of skimmed the very last part. Pretty much at the point from where the Legion create the sun for the Graxls. I didn't think these words at the time, but "meddling clowns" sums it up.

"Never mind that we stole your sacred artefact, here's something new. Enjoy as we won't bother checking in to see how the huge change causes religious carnage and social upheaval!"

Next Month: A Corona Crown for a Colossal Kid: Gim puts on the crown and thinks he's a Sun God!

Or they could have just left the poor guys in peace...


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#900051 - 06/15/16 02:26 PM Re: Re-reading the Legion: Archives Volume 14 [Re: Fat Cramer]  
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The month after: The Graxls declare war on the UP for taking away their god. R.J. Brande repossesses the sun because the Graxls didn't make their down payment. ("Those ungrateful rodents, by damn!") The Legion must now store the Graxls' sun with the crown in their oversized storage room rented from Dr. Who.

Brande learns that the Stellar Spice Company is secretly a front for the Spice Girls. (That will teach him not to pay attention to his business empire.)


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#900072 - 06/15/16 04:07 PM Re: Re-reading the Legion: Archives Volume 14 [Re: Fat Cramer]  
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During the later Conspiracy story, Brainy would get the heart of the sun they had stored in their tesseract to power the time cube.

With it's ability to navigate and travel across the universe, the UP and Brande insist that Worm Lad joins the Legion in place of Dream Girl and Dawnstar. Brande is pleased tha this Stellar Spice Company connections have paid off. Worm Lad saves millions of lives when other technology fails both in the Magic Wars and when Tharok attacks the UP.


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#900077 - 06/15/16 04:21 PM Re: Re-reading the Legion: Archives Volume 14 [Re: Fat Cramer]  
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During 5YL, Worm Lad resigns in disgust, claiming he was always used as bait.


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#900079 - 06/15/16 04:34 PM Re: Re-reading the Legion: Archives Volume 14 [Re: Fat Cramer]  
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I'm seing Worm Lad as a preboot Gates, but using a little Quislet ship for self trasportation across the universe. The sensory driven worm is much more like Lightle's interpretation on Quislet than the energy being.



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#900105 - 06/15/16 09:28 PM Re: Re-reading the Legion: Archives Volume 14 [Re: Fat Cramer]  
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I think the crown, as well as the crystal and the star core, were used to assemble Getten's weapon as he had designed, but to explode it with R.J.'s modifications in the Graxl's space. Sort of turning plowshares into pruning hooks.... They did get their crown back, but wouldn't have known it, so they still would have felt that great loss. No doubt Worm Lad would have had some insightful philosophical remarks about this development, had he ever made it into the Legion.

Drake as Doctor Manhattan! Could have been interesting. He did toss a denigrating "human" remark at Jeckie as he sped off to inspect the intruder alert.

The Legionnaires are rather mean-spirited lately, aren't they? I find Projectra in particular fares very poorly in this period of their history. She doesn't do much and now she's acting bitchy.


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#900121 - 06/16/16 02:55 AM Re: Re-reading the Legion: Archives Volume 14 [Re: Fat Cramer]  
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The "human" remark was no doubt in response to her catty remark about him being a ball of energy.

I'm just as glad that the writers didn't pursue the idea of Drake being a proto-Dr. Manhattan, losing touch with his humanity. Drake was always portrayed as a very human character who had just lost his physical body. I always likened him to someone who is paralyzed from the waist down. Those needs and feelings are still there; you just can't physically express them.

This would make Shady's actions all the more cruel.

I've also thought of Drake as similar to the Thing. Like Ben Grimm, he's human and has all the thoughts and emotions that go with that; however, his physical condition makes normal relationships almost impossible. (At least with Alicia, he had something of a normal dating life.)


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#900126 - 06/16/16 04:19 AM Re: Re-reading the Legion: Archives Volume 14 [Re: Fat Cramer]  
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Shadow Lass certainly has had it out for Wildfire since his election for Legion leader (maybe before that?). It makes her personality all the more interesting from a story-telling point of view, although it disappoints me to see a character I favour acting like that.

This is an aspect of Shadow Lass that I hadn't noticed until this re-read and I'll be most curious to follow its development in later issues.

Although Wildfire is usually described as a hothead (by myself as well), the very fact that he manages to continue day by day without any more than a few short-tempered or sarcastic remarks does indicate considerable self-control, or insight. Unless there's an untold tale in which he pulls horrible pranks on Shady and Jeckie for their treatment of him....

Still, you have to wonder why there couldn't be a sweet little energy being somewhere in that galaxy for Drake.


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#900155 - 06/16/16 09:31 AM Re: Re-reading the Legion: Archives Volume 14 [Re: Fat Cramer]  
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Originally Posted by Fat Cramer

Still, you have to wonder why there couldn't be a sweet little energy being somewhere in that galaxy for Drake.


I love this idea. There's even a precedent for it. Superboy 183 introduced a pair of "wraith-mates" who were romantically involved with each other.


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#900161 - 06/16/16 11:59 AM Re: Re-reading the Legion: Archives Volume 14 [Re: He Who Wanders]  
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Originally Posted by He Who Wanders
I love this idea. There's even a precedent for it. Superboy 183 introduced a pair of "wraith-mates" who were romantically involved with each other.


May I also refer my fellow reviewers to Null Girl ?


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#900185 - 06/16/16 05:24 PM Re: Re-reading the Legion: Archives Volume 14 [Re: Fat Cramer]  
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Um, thoth, I'm not seeing a reference to Null Girl on the page you linked to, or even on the page Reboot linked to on the page below yours.

But any girl (or boy) who could make Drake happy gets my nod of approval.


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#900202 - 06/16/16 07:29 PM Re: Re-reading the Legion: Archives Volume 14 [Re: Fat Cramer]  
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Ah, just scroll up to the top of the page in the link.


"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
#900204 - 06/16/16 09:29 PM Re: Re-reading the Legion: Archives Volume 14 [Re: Fat Cramer]  
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Two possibilities, right off the bat. There's a date for everybody in the future!

A quick search turned up a few more at TV Tropes.

Wildfire represents a diversion from the trope: he is a very ordinary/normal human in terms of emotions, not the detached, advanced or celestial level sentience often associated with the energy being concept.


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#900234 - 06/17/16 06:01 AM Re: Re-reading the Legion: Archives Volume 14 [Re: Fat Cramer]  
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Right. Fixed the link to this Null Girl one.

Originally Posted by Fat Cramer
Two possibilities, right off the bat. There's a date for everybody in the future!


Or nobody in the future, in this case.

Before I forget. If a younger RJ Brande was involved with a Dune-like Space Spice Corporation, are our worm like teleporting Space navigators the Gil'DishPan? If so, does Brande have a connection them in the way he has connections to the Proteans?







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