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#917776 - 12/06/16 01:45 PM Re: Legion Relaunch Teased in Balitmore [Re: Eryk Davis Ester]  
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Fanfic Lady Offline
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Originally Posted by Eryk Davis Ester
I haven't read it, but I've thought the legacy route was the best way to go for a long time.


I haven't read it, either. CBR and all its step-sibling sites always put my computer through hell, because of all those ads.

Having read the comments in this thread, I won't mince words.

Firstly, meaning no disrespect to fans of the TMK era, if I find any references to that era in the first issue, I'm going to stop right there. To quote Bob the Bard, "You go your way, and I'll go mine."

Secondly, I think a Legacy Legion is much better as an Elseworlds-style (Gods, I miss the Elseworlds) out-of-continuity tale, a la "Superboy's Legion." Using that approach as a regular series invites the kind of icky, sentimental, anodyne, only-in-fiction approach to superhero-teams-as-families that made me gag when I recently tried re-reading the late-90s/early-00s JSA run.

Thirdly, I reiterate what I've said earlier in this forum -- my top choice would be a Legion that focused more on the teen aspects than the superhero aspects. The closest analogy that comes to my mind is the Peter David/Todd Nauck run on "Young Justice", but with the communication breakdown between publisher and audience showing few if any signs of being overcome, what I really think we need is a combination of old-school storytelling -- done-in-ones, done-in-twos, and the rare done-in-three for stories that genuinely benefit from the extra space -- and progressive content.

Finally, while the Retroboot approach is great fun, as both a writer and a reader, for fanfic devotees such as myself, I think that as a $3-an-issue comic book series, it would be a creative dead end for reasons already covered in previous posts in this thread.


Read LEGIONS OF 7 WORLDS in the Bits forum:

Retroboot (Earth-7.5) Arc 1 (COMPLETED)

Retroboot (Earth-7.5) Arc 2 (WORK IN PROGRESS)

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#917805 - 12/07/16 03:10 AM Re: Legion Relaunch Teased in Balitmore [Re: Dave Hackett]  
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For those who haven't read it, one of the main reasons given for introducing "LSH: The Next Generation" is so Clark can introduce Jon to his friends' kids, giving him some peers (besides Damian). The idea being it would mirror his childhood experience and be a touch-point to older stories.

Thoughts on that aspect?

#917812 - 12/07/16 05:18 AM Re: Legion Relaunch Teased in Balitmore [Re: Dave Hackett]  
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You had me at "friends kids."


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#917815 - 12/07/16 06:19 AM Re: Legion Relaunch Teased in Balitmore [Re: Dave Hackett]  
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Dave Hackett Offline
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#917818 - 12/07/16 08:02 AM Re: Legion Relaunch Teased in Balitmore [Re: Dave Hackett]  
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thoth lad Offline
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Originally Posted by Dave Hackett



What is wrong with DC?! Having little bits of the Legion revealed in the comics of one of their major characters, before hitching them up with said major character on a long term basis! It's madness! It'll never work now just as it's never worked in the pas....ah...

It is going to be the Batman of that Worlds Finest Comics story who gets to join the Legion here isn't it?

The more I read of them having plans stretching into the distant publishing future, the more I'm reminded of all the other times they've said that, the slack of dreadful stories in between their huge plot Events, and the number of editorial whims that make every one of them* an utter mess.

*I've not read past DCNu so apologies if DC have suddenly transformed themselves.


"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
#917820 - 12/07/16 08:31 AM Re: Legion Relaunch Teased in Balitmore [Re: Dave Hackett]  
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Eryk Davis Ester Offline
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Originally Posted by Dave Hackett
For those who haven't read it, one of the main reasons given for introducing "LSH: The Next Generation" is so Clark can introduce Jon to his friends' kids, giving him some peers (besides Damian). The idea being it would mirror his childhood experience and be a touch-point to older stories.

Thoughts on that aspect?


Yeah, definitely given that they are doing the "Super-Sons" in mainline DC Continuity, it makes sense for them to do something similar with the Legion. I approve!

#917869 - 12/07/16 01:15 PM Re: Legion Rebirth Speculation [Re: Dave Hackett]  
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Emily Sivana Offline
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I kind of want Blok and White Witch to have a kid, even if it is just adopted. Between the Gemworld shorts and Steven Universe, it seems that TV loves rock related characters. Steven Universe is kind of popular right now so they even do a crossover.


Go with the good and you'll be like them; go with the evil and you'll be worse than them.- Portuguese Proverb
#917878 - 12/07/16 05:17 PM Re: Legion Rebirth Speculation [Re: thoth lad]  
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Reboot Offline
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Originally Posted by thoth lad
What is wrong with DC?! Having little bits of the Legion revealed in the comics of one of their major characters, before hitching them up with said major character on a long term basis! It's madness! It'll never work now just as it's never worked in the pas....ah...

Still, it is slightly odd that it's BATMAN of all characters they're being "hitched up with" here. I suppose it would be fuel for the prospect of King writing LSH Rebirth...


My views are my own and do not reflect those of everyone else... and I wouldn't have it any other way.

Cobalt, Reboot & iB present 21st Century Legion: Earth War .
#917892 - 12/07/16 09:47 PM Re: Legion Rebirth Speculation [Re: Dave Hackett]  
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And very bad information for the fans...
I did not buy Batman... but if I had know that Saturn Girl is in the saga I might have bought it.
The same with the Justice League Vs Suicide Squad Saga, I did not ask this saga in the preview, because I was ignoring the participation of THe Emerald Empress.
Damned publishers!


From Spain with glamour.
#917939 - 12/08/16 10:21 AM Re: Legion Rebirth Speculation [Re: Dave Hackett]  
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thoth lad Offline
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I get the feeling that the same hyperbole was used around the time of the Lightning saga thingy. I probably only bought the JLA issues at the time, and they weren't enjoyable. They led up to Events that weren't that good either.

So, I've even less of a reason to buy books for the occasional panel that's drip fed across who knows how many months leading to a lack lustre event. I'll wait for an actual Legion book, or a book that's pretty much all about them.



"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
#917945 - 12/08/16 10:36 AM Re: Legion Rebirth Speculation [Re: Emily Sivana]  
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cleome51 Offline
'tween the darkness and light, beyond the Blues
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Originally Posted by Emily Sivana
I kind of want Blok and White Witch to have a kid, even if it is just adopted. Between the Gemworld shorts and Steven Universe, it seems that TV loves rock related characters. Steven Universe is kind of popular right now so they even do a crossover.


Glorith had a sort of quasi-daughterly relationship to Mysa in the Academy book. They didn't play it up much, which is a shame.


Hey, Kids! My "Cranky and Kitschy" collage art is now viewable on ipernity! Drop by and tell me that I sent you.
#918002 - 12/09/16 11:11 AM Re: Legion Rebirth Speculation [Re: Dave Hackett]  
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Okay, so, I've spent so much time being scared witless about a new Legion book, I will say there's only one living creator whom I actually would look forward to writing the Legion and that's Marguerite Bennett.

She's like the only DC writer who hasn't given me a reason to fear for the characters I like and does not come across as a sanctimonious garbage person.


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#918357 - 12/14/16 03:36 AM Re: Legion Rebirth Speculation [Re: Dave Hackett]  
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At the risk of sounding like an old curmudgeon (which I am, so it's probably OK to sound like one), I'm going to say that a Legion relaunch is not a good idea. The main reason I say this is because of the historical context in which the Legion was created. It was the late 1950s, and (at least in America) we were all optimistic about the future. We saw great scientific advancements, coupled with a society that was a reflection of the American dream (based on the assumption that the entire world would naturally want to buy into that dream by the Legion's time).

Well, my friends, those conditions no longer exist. Science is out of fashion, and even scorned in some circles, and the American dream has become somewhat of a nightmare for many of us. You'd be hard pressed to find anyone who is still optimistic about the future in 2016. And without that sense of optimism, it just wouldn't be the Legion. Sure, you could try to write the book as if we were still living in the late 1950s, but would anyone take it seriously? I find myself thinking of the 80s Flash Gordon movie. Yes, it was a box office success, but it was also pretty campy. I don't want a campy Legion.


First comic books ever bought: A DC four-for-47-cents grab bag that included Adventure #331. The rest is history.
#918372 - 12/14/16 04:43 AM Re: Legion Rebirth Speculation [Re: the Hermit]  
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I remember a time (the '6O's) when we really believed that a bunch of idealistic teen-agers could make an actual difference in the world.

"But hate is strong, and mocks the song of peace on Earth, goodwill to men."

How naïve we were.


I'm nigh invulnerable. I have the reflexes of an Olympic-level jungle cat. I have the strength of 10, perhaps 20 men: a crowded bus stop of men. But my greatest power is this: when destiny speaks, she speaks to me.
She says hi, by the way.
#918377 - 12/14/16 04:59 AM Re: Legion Rebirth Speculation [Re: the Hermit]  
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Dave Hackett Offline
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Originally Posted by the Hermit
At the risk of sounding like an old curmudgeon (which I am, so it's probably OK to sound like one), I'm going to say that a Legion relaunch is not a good idea. The main reason I say this is because of the historical context in which the Legion was created. It was the late 1950s, and (at least in America) we were all optimistic about the future. We saw great scientific advancements, coupled with a society that was a reflection of the American dream (based on the assumption that the entire world would naturally want to buy into that dream by the Legion's time).

Well, my friends, those conditions no longer exist. Science is out of fashion, and even scorned in some circles, and the American dream has become somewhat of a nightmare for many of us. You'd be hard pressed to find anyone who is still optimistic about the future in 2016. And without that sense of optimism, it just wouldn't be the Legion. Sure, you could try to write the book as if we were still living in the late 1950s, but would anyone take it seriously? I find myself thinking of the 80s Flash Gordon movie. Yes, it was a box office success, but it was also pretty campy. I don't want a campy Legion.


Remember that while the culture of the time reflected an idyllic version of the States, that wasn't necessarily the reality of the '50s, especially if you weren't part of a white nuclear family in the growing middle/upper-middle class. We all love the Legion and it's optimism, but it's important to remember it grew out of a myopic, if not naive worldview (as most entertainment at the time reflected).

I think having an optimistic future portrayed in a time of upheaval and uncertainty is even MORE important, as it shows hope and progress are still goals to strive for. Look at Star Trek, which has a similar utopian future but grew out of a far more publicly turbulent decade, was informed by that, and, in some ways, was made better.

#918421 - 12/14/16 12:09 PM Re: Legion Rebirth Speculation [Re: Dave Hackett]  
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Stuck in the Psychedelic Era
I guess I should have emphasized that the "we" I was referring to in my first paragraph above was DC's target audience of 12 and under middle-class white males. There is no doubt that there was a lot more going on in 1958 than we were exposed to on network TV, which was already well on its way to becoming the nation's most popular entertainment medium (if it wasn't already there). Granted, there was the evening news, but that was geared to adults, and as a kid I found it too boring to watch, as did every other kid I knew. As a result we had a somewhat unrealistic view of the world even then. However, it was that unrealistic viewpoint that allowed us to get absorbed in the Legion's version of the 30th century in the first place.

I see the original Star Trek series as coming from the same place as the Adventure-era Legion. Remember that TV in those days suffered a cultural lag of about five years or so. Star Trek, which premiered in 1967, reflected JFK's America far more than LBJ's. Even the socially conscious morality tales that TOS occasionally presented had a liberal establishment point of view. Their few attempts at taking a late 60s viewpoint came off as preachy as best (the one with the two half-black/half-white guys comes to mind) or just plain ludicrous (Space Hippies, anyone?).

I agree that there is a need for optimism now more than ever, but it would have to be grounded in a reality that people can believe in (or at least suspend their disbelief long enough to enjoy what they're reading), and that's a tall order in these cynical times.


First comic books ever bought: A DC four-for-47-cents grab bag that included Adventure #331. The rest is history.
#918502 - 12/15/16 09:40 PM Re: Legion Rebirth Speculation [Re: Dave Hackett]  
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I recently read a bunch of blog posts that did plot overviews of the New 52 Teen Titans, and something I found notable was that Tom King wrote a single issue -- c'mon, even HE couldn't have saved that garbage fire -- and introduced a character called Chimera, who's a Durlan shapeshifter. Has he been angling for the job for a while? If so, I'm leaning towards him as the Legion's writer EVEN MORE (after the original Omega Men pitch including Legion characters, the "ultra-vision" line in Batman, the Saturn Girl appearance in Batman, and now the announcement that Batman will be setting up their return), since I can see DC giving him the book after his critical success this year (I've yet to find a "top 10 comics of the year" list without at least one of his works on it)

Oh, and something I noticed after reading Grayson: in the "We All Die at Dawn" issue, King uses the proximity of narration to dialogue to explain the story. Basically, Dick shouldn't have survived the story, as said by Midnighter and his supercomputer brain. But his response when Midnighter asks what Dick has comapred to his own enhancements is "I have HER", referring to the child with the metahuman heart. It's a sentimental thing... and in the epilogue, after a character mentions losing the heart, a character in a separate conversation says "you had it in your hands", with the narration VERY close to the line about losing the heart, implying that Dick was leeching energy off the heart (Midnighter had suggested killing the child and using the heart's energy earlier in the issue). So yeah, the Saturn Girl thing and "who's taking on THAT burden" is probably a reference to the creative team, but I'm not sure if that's King kinda denying he'll be writing the Legion or if it's just trolling.

ALSO, something I JUST realised after reading that CBR article with Tom King. Those people he's working with to set up the Legion's return? The only guy other than King himself who was at the Baltimore panel is James Tynion IV... Wouldn't whoever's the ongoing Legion writer have a hand in this project?

Last edited by Fuzzy Barbarian; 12/15/16 10:12 PM.

There's a fine line between not listening and not caring. I like to think that I walk that line every day of my life.
#918503 - 12/15/16 09:43 PM Re: Legion Rebirth Speculation [Re: Dave Hackett]  
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Fuzzy Barbarian Offline
Honorary
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New South Wales, Australia
Originally Posted by Dave Hackett
Originally Posted by the Hermit
At the risk of sounding like an old curmudgeon (which I am, so it's probably OK to sound like one), I'm going to say that a Legion relaunch is not a good idea. The main reason I say this is because of the historical context in which the Legion was created. It was the late 1950s, and (at least in America) we were all optimistic about the future. We saw great scientific advancements, coupled with a society that was a reflection of the American dream (based on the assumption that the entire world would naturally want to buy into that dream by the Legion's time).

Well, my friends, those conditions no longer exist. Science is out of fashion, and even scorned in some circles, and the American dream has become somewhat of a nightmare for many of us. You'd be hard pressed to find anyone who is still optimistic about the future in 2016. And without that sense of optimism, it just wouldn't be the Legion. Sure, you could try to write the book as if we were still living in the late 1950s, but would anyone take it seriously? I find myself thinking of the 80s Flash Gordon movie. Yes, it was a box office success, but it was also pretty campy. I don't want a campy Legion.


Remember that while the culture of the time reflected an idyllic version of the States, that wasn't necessarily the reality of the '50s, especially if you weren't part of a white nuclear family in the growing middle/upper-middle class. We all love the Legion and it's optimism, but it's important to remember it grew out of a myopic, if not naive worldview (as most entertainment at the time reflected).

I think having an optimistic future portrayed in a time of upheaval and uncertainty is even MORE important, as it shows hope and progress are still goals to strive for. Look at Star Trek, which has a similar utopian future but grew out of a far more publicly turbulent decade, was informed by that, and, in some ways, was made better.


I'm with this. While I think the Legion should stand for cooperation and unity, them doing so in a setting that DOESN'T embrace those values gives them more importance. In fact, I think it's the perfect climate to release a comic where a bunch of teens/young adults come together in unity and cooperation in a harsher world.

Regarding the generational thing, I'd be up for it. It wouldn't feel as "new", but it would be a nice way to not piss off those who don't want the Retroboot Legion retconned away (since that IS the Legion the current Superman was a part of). And using Jon would also allow for a Superboy on the team, though I've got problems with the age (he's like 10, as opposed to a teenager). Plus, a time skip would allow us to blow pass the ending of the last run, while also leaving some room for things to have still happened and be explored with the Legion's kids. I've got problems with the "everybody got married and had kids" cliche, but it'd be an okay way to not have to reboot again, though I'm still more for one last reboot.

Last edited by Fuzzy Barbarian; 12/15/16 09:50 PM.

There's a fine line between not listening and not caring. I like to think that I walk that line every day of my life.
#918504 - 12/15/16 10:26 PM Re: Legion Rebirth Speculation [Re: Dave Hackett]  
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Invisible Brainiac Offline
Unseen, not unheard
Invisible Brainiac  Offline
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Wouldn't you like to know?
Indeed. We need hope now more than ever.

#918758 - 12/19/16 07:21 PM Re: Legion Rebirth Speculation [Re: Invisible Brainiac]  
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Colossal Boy Offline
Substitute
Colossal Boy  Offline
Substitute

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The DC Solicits for March 2017 are out today and this caught up eye. It sure sounds like a strong hint that we may get the next piece of Legion rebirth here :

BATGIRL ANNUAL #1
Written by HOPE LARSON
Art by INAKI MIRANDA
Cover by BENGAL

Batgirl and Supergirl must team up to break into Arkham Asylum! In this all-new Rebirth annual Batgirl must seek Supergirl’s help to solve a mystery that leads them to the heart of the most insane insane asylum there is! But what they discover—and who they discover—in Arkham will lead to a much, much bigger story!
On sale MARCH 29 • 48 pg, FC, $4.99 US • RATED T

#919916 - 01/03/17 06:07 AM Re: Legion Rebirth Speculation [Re: Dave Hackett]  
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An interesting discussion. I would like to add that stories about hope have always been very successful in the Legion universe especially when they were up against oppressive governments (like those brainwashed by Universo) or Xenophobia (like White Triangle Reboot). Those have been among the best stories of their respective eras. Even the Retroboot story in Action Comics really hit a mark with me, it was very emotional and in my eyes the best Legion story of the last two decades.

What a Legion Rebirth story would need would be a great artist that catches your eye, a simple story many people can easily relate to and a slow, organic introduction of the huge Legion staff, thus making it accessible and different from all the rest. Focus on an important topic like for example the current Aquaman book does, and a small book can be a winner!

What must not happen (again) is to start with a lukewarm vision that some Legion lifetime fan cooked up in his kitchen that the target group are having trouble to relate to, using a ridiculous villain that people are having trouble to care about ... ehm, well, Threeboot is what I'm talking about. Even though that version got way better later on when Waid was off the book, I still don't understand what he was up to with this shipwreck of a story... 8(

#920183 - 01/06/17 12:51 PM Re: Legion Rebirth Speculation [Re: Dave Hackett]  
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Emily Sivana Offline
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I have been wondering if a Legion of Substitute Super-Heroes book would do well. I think part of the reason current readers might skip this book is because many of us are self-proclaimed nerds and some of the Legionnaires come off as the popular kids in high school. The cartoon was able to balance the personalities by putting Bouncing Boy and Triplicate Girl in prominent roles.


Go with the good and you'll be like them; go with the evil and you'll be worse than them.- Portuguese Proverb
#920193 - 01/06/17 09:41 PM Re: Legion Rebirth Speculation [Re: Dave Hackett]  
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Yes, there's something about the Subs that has widespread appeal, even if people joke about them. The recent Academy students were quite appealing as well - younger, learning their limits, screwing up and recovering.


Holy Cats of Egypt!
#920216 - 01/07/17 07:53 AM Re: Legion Rebirth Speculation [Re: Dave Hackett]  
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thoth lad Offline
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Touring Bgtzl and Bgztl with M...
The trick with the Subs would undoubtedly being to prevent them becoming a bit of a joke. Not by the readers, but by the writers.

They would hopefully look to capture the writing that portrayed them as a very effective unit, by overcoming their limitations. Serious action and adventure, but with that layer of lightness brought about naturally by their actions.


"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
#920415 - 01/11/17 02:41 AM Re: Legion Rebirth Speculation [Re: Dave Hackett]  
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Dave Hackett Offline
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According to the latest issue of JL vs. Suicide Squad, the Emerald Empress/Saturn Girl story will play out in Supergirl this year (presumably after the Batgirl Annual).

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