Legion World Forums LEGION OUTPOST Bits o' Legionnaire Business Retroboot Continued (Brainy’s Legion)

You were better keeping me guessing you softie you!

I've got most of your thought provoking Fangirls and Bissette threads to catch up on too. I've been saving them for a day off, all the better to enjoy them.

Uh...better late than never?



I will do my best to read #4 tonight, as the rest of the week, even through the weekend, is shaping up to be a busy one.

Thanks for your patience.



RE:



Aww...thank you, Thoth.

I must have a subscription to The Tsauran Times!

The Westerner was a surprise, short-lived but that's the superhero biz for you.

You wrote a fine description of virtual Danielle and how she operates.

Reep's injury made me wonder about how that works when he changes form. If he's a butterfly and gets a wingtip singed, does that translate into a proportional injury when he takes on humanoid form? Could he have an tentacle chopped off as a Jovian Attack Squid but just reshape himself after? Questions to ponder.

I liked how Jo, in the middle of all this mess, reminded Brainy that they were going to find Tinya. Um, priorities?

I like the new Academy students. All very strange. But Urk... so easily distracted. Or does his meal have a purpose?

Stargrave is a really fluid enemy - lots of deception and misdirection, the altered continue to alter and the Legion must fight on multiple real and virtual fronts.

The Stargrave family! When I read that he had other relatives, I didn't make the obvious connection, later revealed. But I am wondering if there could be somebody else out there.

The deep secrets harboured by Weber's World! A fascinating concept, the deep state at its deepest. I'd bet those sneaky Coluans know more than they're letting on.

Thanks very much for reading Cramer.



Yeah, it easily outsells the Socialist Worker round here. Everyone wants to be that Minion of the Month pin-up I guess.



I imagine we'll see some more of him, at least due to other plot developments.



Thank you. I was surprised to find her doing a lot of standing around in the old Legionnaires comics. We'll be seeing a different side to Danielle's powers soon too.



I'm also reminded of Gar Logan having his fly wing tip clipped in an issue of Titans. He turns back into human form with the damage on his shoulder.

I'm vaguely thinking that there was an issue where Reep could separate parts of his body, without killing himself.

Reep's injury(ies) will be a subplot in the issue ahead, and it's been foreshadowed in v4 and in v7.



in v7 #23 Jo is less than pleased with Brainy not looking for Tinya. We've seen how besotted he is. Brainy's quite dismissive of her in the last issue. We're now several weeks further on and Jo has been used as a super fast errand boy, while Querl strings him along. It's not going to last much longer.



All the students there have appeared before in the book in some way. There was a bit of ill feeling when the likes of Dragonwing, Gorith and Chemical Kid got in ahead of Lamprey and Power Boy. So, I'm looking at the students/ characters we've seen before, to establish their stories and their place in things. I'd like it to be a natural progression. That's not to say new students can't join at varying levels though.

The Westerner was a former Academy student, and that's what's become of him. As an aside, he appeared in a single panel early in v4. He's in a Silverale commercial, indicating he has enough fame for others to want to attach their brand to him. His portrayal here started from that.

The Urk thing is just one of those nice loose ends. I'd written the line because that's just what he does. Then it occurred to me what that could mean. So, we'll see on that one. Urk will certainly be back.



I hoped that would come across without being too messy. He was massively powerful before. Even his decoys were. Add to that his background (any of them), his penchant for being both maniacal *and* creating layered fakes. Here, he's also aware that something's gone very wrong with his own perception of what things should be like, and he's operating on a lot of levels. It's just what his "son" does for the Legion and I was hoping that some of that parallel came across. In the back of their minds, they might think it's a bit like fighting a certain Coluan teammate.



Well, there were a couple of decoys in that old Superboy issue. SO, presumably there's another one out there. Here, it was intended to be Danielle. Beyond that, will depend on which one of Stargrave's origins turns out to be the real one.



There's some things from my reread posts which highlight my thoughts on what the UP have been getting away with over the years. So it's going to be a bit of a theme here.

Absolutely everyone in this is sneakier than they've been letting on. And it's not just Brainy on the Legion side either. But yeah, those Coluans for sure.

It was my considerable pleasure! Thanks for writing. This all builds very well from the Levitz issues.



I'm thinking of the v.4 issue in which he rearranged his internal organs prior to the Roxxas attack, but can't recall actual separation of body parts. It seems feasible, though and may well have been done by some creators who thought of him as silly putty.

Thoth, the first thing I feel I have to say is that your portrayal of the horror of post-humanism gone very wrong indeed is visceral on an H.R. Giger-meets-2000 AD era Kevin O'Neill level!! Out-effin'-standing!!



Was this in any conscious way a homage to Jenni's big scenes in one of the better issues of Legion Worlds?



Beautifully worded...and perhaps the seeds of future story-arcs as well?



Loved this sequence, lots of nice little touches.



Interesting original character, already showing quite a bit of potential.



Nicely put. And dare I infer that this could possibly mean the return of...





Another winning bit of characterization.



A politician with integrity and smarts?? From VENTURA, yet?? Will wonders never cease!! Strange bedfellows and all that.

As it was originally going to start with #24, my job is done. Thank you



On Cham splitting, he did it back when he was fighting Kodar in Adventure #376. That was the Elwinda issue. He uses part of himself to imitate Kodar's hammer, while the rest of him fights on.

It was the incident when he got shot by Roxxas I was thinking of. He was beaten by Phoenix in v7 too. Then there's the issue about what he had to go through to get his powers back. It's been tough for Cham.



Thanks! I just wanted to have enough to make the point, and not get in the way of the plot moving forward.

Kevin O'Neill is another one of those artists it took me a while to appreciate (see also Kirby and Infantino d'oh!) While thoth from Nemesis is my avatar, it's by Bryan Talbot, while I didn't warm to O'Neil's run on the book. It was probably Marshall Law that made me take another look, and start noticing all the subversive chaos I'd been missing from his previous work.



I was thinking of the scene where she gets Saturn Girl clear of the Blight Stem, when I showed her getting The Westerner clear. I wanted to show an interaction between her and Night Girl, following on from their v6 meeting. The tongue sticking out was a nod to Moy. There was something else too... oh where we meet her was to bring in that mosaic subplot from v6 as well. I wanted to give a montage of her strengths to show her experience as a Legionnaire, even if she's not been one in this universe.



There's lots of established Naltor bits that help to set up a strong cultural background to the planet and its outlook. So we'll be seeing more of that



Thank you. We don't say "Orrery" anywhere near enough on Legion World!



I've got half of a post on the Academy ready. As I was doing it, I was looking at how likely it would for them to end up being Legionnaires or at least strong heroes in their own right. The Westerner came out pretty well. That's a view I'm not sure I started with.



If not him, then perhaps some of his pals




It was very briefly going to be two characters. One would be the politician and the other the PR guru behind her. But it seemed more sensible to streamline it. That she's from Ventura, should also give a hint to one of the characters lined up for the Protectors programme. he's been a hero on Ventura...

As with Part 1, what I enjoyed the most here was the opening battle against the Altered. I especially appreciated the efficient and effective portrayal of Dragonwing and her powers.

Also surprisingly intrigued by this bit of possible foreshadowing of a potentially juicy subplot, especially considering how much I dislike the character:



The Stargrave battle, I'm sorry to say, did not impress me to nearly the same degree as the Altered battle did. But the hint that the real Stargrave may still be at large (unless I misread; I am, after all, at work, reading during lulls) gives me hope that you've got a surprise twist up your sleeve for the grand finale.

Hope you don't mind if I...SQUEE!!

Love that one-shot character. Baxter #14 is easily one of my all-time Top 10 Legion issues!! Thanks for saving her from oblivion, Thoth.



But your readers know better, don't we??

Can't wait to see where you go with this!!



HOLY S***!!

Did NOT see that cliffhanger coming.

Good show, Thoth!! And if, in the end, I was still left a bit underwhelmed by Stargrave, I look at it more like, "Wow, Thoth's own creations, the Altered, outshone the nominal arch-villain by yonks!!"

Overall, I give it a solid 4 out of 5 Umbras:

Ditto!!



As a Preboot Jo hat...errr, no, SKEPTIC...I got a good laugh out of that. Thanks, Cramer.



I certainly wouldn't mind seeing a certain Postboot villainess who failed to live up to her potential the first time around and has been missing from every subsequent Legion iteration. Yes, I would totally be up FOUR for that.



Ooh, good call, Cramer. I think you should reward yourself with an extra cup of coffee for that.

ROTFLMAO



Good.



AWESOME!!

Thanks for taking the time to read and comment on the rest of it Fanfic Lady!



Yups, Lydda’s tone, comments to the students about their future, the students she picked and Cham’s feeling that he’d heard some of those comments from Rokk are all set ups for things later on. I’ve no doubt Jenni will be involved somewhere in there too.



“But if I make item A great then item B, that you didn’t like as much, is still only a bit less than great.” – Clutching At Straws Lad makes everything better

I think being a maniacal, info dumping mega villain who stands stock still in a single location while the heroes pummel him, is what Stargrave does

I was chuffed I got him out of the room and out into the city. That’s character progression for Pulsar

You’re not wrong to feel a bit underwhelmed by him, actually. It’s sort of built into the story.

He’s a fake. Like a journeyman boxer, his real function is to get beaten for the “real” Stargrave in a way that gives everyone else a win.

Around the same time I was looking to give the Altered that posthuman progression, I toyed with really expanding the fake Stargrave’s capability and scope.

I left it out because, firstly, it would have made the fake Stargrave something more than he was; a relic from an old SLOSH issue. Hopefully, the hint of what the “real” Stargrave is starting shows the difference from those days. And thanks for the reaction to the final cliff-hanger (And I’ll get to hopefully use the ideas I kept back in a later issue too!)

Secondly, and I’m sure I’ll find out lots more about what you all do from reading the rest of Bits, was (ironically since it’s on a forum) space. A built in conceit to this is that I break it into issues, and behind that I’ve split it into pages. If I was going to have an extended Stargrave scene, with all the bells and whistles, I would have went onto another issue. As this started off as a two issue story that became four, I was really worried about it constantly creeping on. “Issue 247: The Legion finally beat Stargrave at their retirement party!”

Lastly, some of that lack of fulfilment adds to the questions a couple of cast members are going to ask later on, which will help unravel that it was a fake Stargrave. When there’s a number of things the villain could have done, why didn’t he?



You’re welcome! I’m looking forward to seeing where the Academy students fit in, and developing their careers/ backstories. While they’re students, they all have varying levels of experience form previous issues, or from their home worlds off panel. Tiger Girl, for example, was a failed applicant rather than someone coming through the ranks. So she’s had a different challenges to the ones say a Power Boy would have gone through.

Baxter #14 and the Tales cover version are mines of potential.




Tee hee



My job is done

I'm shuffling subplots around at the moment, in no kind of rush. So, I'll be looking at some Bits imminent-like (about time!)

Dat cliffhanger tho!!!! Perfect example of something happening in a story that took me totally by surprise but at the same time makes 100% sense... excellent job! Also, I enjoy your visual depiction of Danielle's power - I love writing her as a character but I must admit I am one of those "she just stands around not looking dynamic" writers you mentioned

Funny you mention Gar getting his wing clipped that time - that was actually the first thing that came to my mind when I read your post-fight scene with Cham!

Also I always find it really interesting seeing which obscure character people like dragging out of the past and how they're interpreted...I really dig your Westerner and am looking forward to more; I have never really known what to do with him. I think the one thing Legion fandom has in common is we all like the one hit wonders and obscure random guys as much as actual team members

Welcome aboard the Retroboot Triple-Engine-Train, Raz!!





It's always a pleasure.



ROTFLMAO



Fair enough, and since I wrote that post before reading the final 1/3 of issue 4, I should say in this one that, FTR, I was pleasantly, though not totally unexpectedly, surprised by where you went with Stargrave by issue's end, and intrigued (to say the least) by where you seem to be going with the character (and his "family") from here.



LOL

As long as that kind of format is what works best for you, I'm all for it. I've found, through trial and error over several years of contributing to bits, that I write better within a much looser format.



Indeed.



Abso-effin'-lutely agree!!



YAY!!

And Stella & her daddy would like to add their 2p:

Thanks very much for reading Raz!



Thank you kindly Sir!




With it being an introductory adventure, it seemed useful to show folks some of the things they could do. I just couldn't remember Danielle's powers at work outside her very first Annual appearance. She shorted a door circuit on the way out, or something like that. I didn't get a lot more from the comics really. I'm also aware in a book the size of the Legion (and after having going through lots of issues for the appearance count thread) how many characters can get lost in cameo background appearances. As mentioned, there's going to be more on her power range shortly. Either next story or the one after.




Well, I guess there's no use pretending Raz. I used to read all your comics while you slept.




I struggle to find any I don't like and don't want to use. That big guy with the small head and helmet? He's got a subplot. The Ferroesque masked kid from a single panel? Him too.



Thanks. He's got a hereditary power, so he's got that bloodline subplot up for grabs. He's got a mystic sort of background too. Like all comic book mystics, he must have anger management issues, because they all want to find inner peace for some reason. And he studied with a shaman. An off world one too (mental note: Legion vs Space Shaman to write) But, tempting as it was for him to be part of an All New-All Different Legion and have him die fighting a Durlan Pterodactyl, I went with something else...




There's just so many stories you can use them for. There's nearly always a character with the powers, traits to fit.




I had to look up the reference to the postboot hints you guys were making, so it's fairly safe to say that I wasn't going there. I guess I don't have those ones (but by jiminy I shall get my paws on 'em)




Actually, it's a bloody pain. I had to chop chunks out of it, rearrange it all over the place, and lose the prologue for the next one you were supposed to have. I really felt the constraints every step of the way. On the plus side, it meant that it got edited, streamlined and paced more than it would have done otherwise.



>Snort!< >tee hee<

I did start. Honest I did ma'am. But I was commenting as I went (as I like to), and Visitor Cat hogged my lap and gets grumpy when I move. While the scars may make for an interesting story, telling people they were obtained while trying to type loses a lot of that. I switched to the TPB of EGOs I picked up in the sale, as it was the only thing within arms reach. 4 issues for a TPB! Another shocking comics trend! No wonder I got it for buttons. Anyway, I'll read more soon...

Quite sweet of you, Thoth, to come up with these flattering titles for moi:

M'lady O' The Fanfic Realm

Mistress of the Shadow'd Haunts of Fictional Dreams

The Sorceress of Scintillating Stories

Thankies.

RE: Reading other Bits contributors' work and commenting on it -- No worries, Thoth. If there's one thing I've learned over the past few weeks, it's that patience truly is a virtue.

And RE: the semi-obscure Coluan character I'd most like to see as part of the Stargrave Family -- The first & last story-arc which showcased her as the arch-villainess she was obviously intended to become was the multi-parter "Dark Circle Rising" (Starting in L* 62, and climaxing in LSH #108, with an epilogue in L*65.)

I regard DCR as a fascinating folly. It was obviously the Stern/Merlo/McCraw/Peyer creative team's attempt at an "Earthwar" style epic, but something went seriously askew between plotting and execution. That was a bitter pill for me to swallow, given that Stern had previously shown a talent for grandiose space-opera in some of his Marvel stories of the 80s. A pitiful misfire, then, but one that COULD HAVE been good.

And as I was typing this reply, I remembered that the one time I tried to use this villainess in one of my fics, it turned out to be what I consider the nadir of my Bits contributions to date, "The Every-Boot Legion Volume 3: Secret Weapons." I am superstitious enough to semi-seriously consider the possibility that she is an accursed character to be used at one's own risk.

Stay away from Brainiac 4, then, Thoth. But I do hope that you track down the issues of DCR and review them in the Legion forum. I'd be quite interested in an extensive discussion of that story-arc, where it went wrong, and how it could have been properly written.

Thanks FL! I have been lurking a while in the background, thought it was about time I make myself known

And thoth, now I know the Titans weren't coming alive and having sneaky adventures while I slept...shattered!