Roll Call
0 members (), 16 Murran Spies, and 6 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Time-Scope
Recent Legion-verse sightings in DCU proper
by Invisible Brainiac - 04/19/24 11:13 AM
Kill This Thread L - Half a Century
by Invisible Brainiac - 04/19/24 11:13 AM
The Non-Legion Comics Trivia Thread Pt 5
by thoth lad - 04/19/24 10:51 AM
Inane one word posts XXXIV - inanity
by Invisible Brainiac - 04/19/24 01:49 AM
Kill This Thread XLIX - We're Getting Old
by Invisible Brainiac - 04/18/24 02:08 AM
Legionnaire Mastermind
by Invisible Brainiac - 04/17/24 03:44 AM
The thread that ate _____ !
by Invisible Brainiac - 04/17/24 03:44 AM
Omnicom
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 2 of 4 1 2 3 4
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 16
Future #918799 12/20/16 07:34 AM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 31,441
Tempus Fugitive
Offline
Tempus Fugitive
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 31,441
Oh foops... I'll have this one in the "special binders" if I have it. The others might be chasing the star on the cover, but I bet Superman goes to lift that bar bell of a DC logo.


"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 16
Future #918804 12/20/16 08:19 AM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 6,078
Wanderer
Offline
Wanderer
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 6,078
DC has had some terrific holiday specials over the years. I remember this Legion special fondly.

Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 16
Future #918806 12/20/16 08:42 AM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 34,634
Bold Flavors
Offline
Bold Flavors
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 34,634
DC Holiday Special 1980

First off, love that cover. Ah the days when superheroes were the main part of, instead of almost the entire, part of DC’s line-up of protagonists! I’m still waiting for the long lost Joe Kubert drawn Legion meets SGT Rock story.

Well, if the cover isn’t enough, the art inside makes it even better. I’ve long been a fan of Jose Luis Garcia Lopez and the art in this story is beautiful. (Side note: Lardy and I once started the Garcia Lopez fan club on the DCMB’s in 2001 or so. We scared off all other potential members). With Levitz on script, this creative combination is a special treat, and the artwork never once lets us down. Dynamic and gorgeous throughout, I can’t help but wonder “what if…?” where Garcia-Lopez had a run on the LSH as well.

All in all, it’s a quaint little tale that reinforces the belief in not only a higher power but that Christmas is all about kindness and doing things for one another, and how if there is enough of that happening, it makes the world a better place. It's a wonderful notion that I don’t mind hearing sentimentally around Christmas time. (Good thing we didn’t review this story around tax time or something ;)).

Though there isn’t a lot of substance here, there is a lot to like. The monitor board showing multiple Legionnaires like in the old Adventure days; Imra being her all-business, iron-butt self; the revelation that Gim is Jewish; etc. Tinya, Wildfire, Garth and Superboy all really get a chance to shine and feel like real people.

I had never read this one before and didn’t expect much. It really wasn’t much either, but I am glad I got to read and enjoy it!

Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 16
Blockade Boy #918807 12/20/16 08:43 AM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 34,634
Bold Flavors
Offline
Bold Flavors
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 34,634
Originally Posted by Blockade Boy
DC has had some terrific holiday specials over the years. I remember this Legion special fondly.
That's so true. There were a number of great little holiday stories in the 80's and 90's, and usually every special had at least one little gem that was terrific.

Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 16
Future #918862 12/21/16 12:05 PM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 31,441
Tempus Fugitive
Offline
Tempus Fugitive
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 31,441
Holiday Special 1980

Bah! Superboy could easily finish off the HQ reconstruction in seconds. But being Christmas, this will probably be a story about being nice to others. Humbug!

Superboy visits the work in progress Legion HQ. No security systems yet. You’d have to be nuts to tackle the Legion at their HQ, yet it seems to happen so often.

As Supes takes a look around, Tinya indulges in a bit of stealth kissing. Note how she still stays partially intangible while doing it! I’m sure this was just another exercise in testing out those powers. That's what she'll tell Jo anyway. There was a cringe worthy scene in a much later Legion when Superboy couldn’t keep his heat vision from erupting, when he got a kiss.

They may not have a lot of systems finished, but they’ve made sure that their Perv-O-Vision monitor is working perfectly as they snoop in on what their fellow members are up to.

Karate Kid’s tea ceremony adds a different take on festivities. But eagle eyed readers will notice that Devlin O’Ryan has visited the past, and left a memento at the top of the tree!

As we watch the Snerls make a fatal mistake in having their fireworks trees indoors, we learn that the Legion can snoop in on hundreds of planets. But not one of them has tacky 20th century decorations! This seems to mentally unbalance Superboy, who insists that they go on a quest to find the star of Bethlehem.

I’m sharing Saturn Girl’s reaction to Supes’ manic plans. But off we go, leaving Mon El and Credibility Kid behind to guard the Club House.

The story makes a wise choice to take a gentle approach to what the heroes find. Not a star, but a planet requiring aid against an approaching ice age. The heroes each save one of the species on the planet. Then, in an excellent use of the telepathic earplugs, Superboy allows those races to communicate and work together for the survival of all through the difficult times ahead.

The plot delivers a simple, yet important message. The dialogue is particularly well done, allowing each character to express opinions as they would between friends. While the different species on the world pull together to make something better, the Legionnaires from different planets pull together to do exactly the same.

I was especially pleased to see that the Legion’s actions didn’t make them forget to arrange for a more permanent evacuation for the locals. It’s an easy thing for some writers to forget. While Superboy can move planets, and Brande can birth stars (through technology, not like it was his super power >icky<) it’s better that the aliens work together and that they are supported by the wider UP around them. It’s a genuinely happy ending, and we don’t see enough of those.

Note that Imra sees through the 4th wall at the end, beginning a possible slide into becoming the Time Trapper later on.


"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 16
thoth lad #918888 12/21/16 10:14 PM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 16,853
Time Trapper
Offline
Time Trapper
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 16,853
Originally Posted by Cobalt Kid


First off, love that cover. Ah the days when superheroes were the main part of, instead of almost the entire, part of DC’s line-up of protagonists! I’m still waiting for the long lost Joe Kubert drawn Legion meets SGT Rock story.


I am too, now. Never thought of it before!

Quote
Well, if the cover isn’t enough, the art inside makes it even better. I’ve long been a fan of Jose Luis Garcia Lopez and the art in this story is beautiful. (Side note: Lardy and I once started the Garcia Lopez fan club on the DCMB’s in 2001 or so. We scared off all other potential members).


Geez, what did you do? Maybe you scared off Garcia Lopez himself!


Originally Posted by thoth lad


Bah! Superboy could easily finish off the HQ reconstruction in seconds. But being Christmas, this will probably be a story about being nice to others. Humbug!


Well, the Legionnaires themselves appear to be taking the time off, just standing around or drinking tea.

Quote
They may not have a lot of systems finished, but they’ve made sure that their Perv-O-Vision monitor is working perfectly as they snoop in on what their fellow members are up to.


It always gets me that this is the standard depiction of the bright and shiny future, written at a time before we had widespread invasive surveillance. Watch what you wish for!

Quote
Karate Kid’s tea ceremony adds a different take on festivities. But eagle eyed readers will notice that Devlin O’Ryan has visited the past, and left a memento at the top of the tree!


Or his parents were neighbours of Val - another untold tale of the Legion. Devlin would have been a young tyke then.

Quote
As we watch the Snerls make a fatal mistake in having their fireworks trees indoors, we learn that the Legion can snoop in on hundreds of planets.


Sadly, we never again see the Snerls. You'd think they must have had fireproof walls, but maybe not.

Quote
Note that Imra sees through the 4th wall at the end, beginning a possible slide into becoming the Time Trapper later on.


Aaagghh!


Holy Cats of Egypt!
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 16
Cobalt Kid #918917 12/22/16 09:48 AM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 31,441
Tempus Fugitive
Offline
Tempus Fugitive
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 31,441
Originally Posted by Cobie
...I&#146;m still waiting for the long lost Joe Kubert drawn Legion meets SGT Rock story.


Superboy: Forward Garth, Imra, Jan & Gim! Conquer... for the glory of my homeworld, Krypton!

Chameleon Boy: Superboy got those other Legionnaires to join him in this war against us! Tinya, Querl, Ayla & Thom! Prepare to open fire! Our new weapons will surprise them!

Lu: Only you can decide the battle Cosmic Boy! But which side will you choose?

Rokk: I'm enlisting, overseas aid / Need assisting, help with a maid / Get the expert, on mademoiselles / He could diffuse, any bombshell / If I could only be tough like him / Then I could win / My own, small, battle of the sexes

And Sgt. Rock is going to help me / Make the girl mine /Keep her stood in line /And Sgt. Rock is going to help me


Originally Posted by Cobie
Tinya, Wildfire, Garth and Superboy all really get a chance to shine and feel like real people.


It seems simple enough, but the ease they all have in each other's company and the support they give each other stands out like a little star itself here. Applause for Levitz and Garcia Lopez.


Originally Posted by Cobie
Or his parents were neighbours of Val - another untold tale of the Legion. Devlin would have been a young tyke then.


I reckon that Devlin's reflecting power is a bit of a red herring. I think all the energy blasts ricochet off his baubles decorations. His green jumper is actually part of his true body as ...Tree Lad!

Originally Posted by Cramer
Sadly, we never again see the Snerls. You'd think they must have had fireproof walls, but maybe not.


They went out with a bang, though.


"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 16
Future #919306 12/27/16 02:27 AM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 16,853
Time Trapper
Offline
Time Trapper
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 16,853
#264 Dagons Cavern of Doom! by Gerry Conway, art by Jimmy Janes & Dave Hunt, colours Gene D'Angelo, letters Milt Snapinn

[Linked Image]

As the Legionnaires fly off to search for the missing parents with Dawnstar's guidance, distracted Wildfire almost causes an aircar to crash. Disaster is averted by Light Lass, who also delivers a mild lecture on paying attention. They come to an island; Dawnstar says she feels ill and can track no further. The Legionnaires are attacked by guns and mutant bats.

They gain entry into the power plant, but Saturn Girl confirms that nobody is there. Wildfire throws a major temper tantrum and blasts some machinery.

Dagon watches the Legionnaires' futile efforts and taunts the parents, who are imprisoned in a greenish transparent pyramid. When the parents say that the ransom would never be paid, even if the Legion had the money, Dagon replies that the point is for the Legion to feel financial ruin and complete helplessness.

At Legion HQ, Wildfire grills Dawnstar about her tracking failure. Shadow Lass defends her, recalling that the illness she felt could have been Dagon disrupting her tracking sense and leading her on a false trail. Light Lass reminds them that there are three suspects from Brande Industries who could disrupt their security devices and their super-powers and they should be found and questioned. Saturn Girl suggests retrieving Tyroc, who might be able to find the suspects as he once found a hidden bomb. Dawnstar volunteers to go to Marzal and Shadow Lass offers to accompany her, since she's pals with Tyroc.

At Brande Industries, the Legionnaires narrow the suspects down to two, who had access to the security storage chambers and could have made duplicates of the Legion's security system for Dagon. However, the chambers' access code has been changed, so Lightning Lad blasts the lock and Wildfire attempts to open the vault, only to have his suit blown off by a rocket launcher. He can still communicate by vibrating the air. The empty shelves give Lightning Lad a clue as to where Dagon is hiding.

Dagon realizes that the Legionnaires may be on to him, so he launches cyanide capsules at the parents' enclosure. Wildfire arrives, sans suit, just in time to destroy the capsules. Before he can attack Dagon, he's captured in a net of negative ions and neutralized. Suddenly, the other Legionnaires arrive, capture Dagon and free the parents. Lightning Lad explains that he saw that Dagon had also taken plans for a Legion security bunker directly under their HQ.

On Marzal, Shadow Lass and Dawnstar implore Tyroc to leave with them, but he refuses, claiming that this is a crucial time for Marzal and they must leave immediately. His advice is too late however, as “The Brigadoon Syndrome”, occurring every two centuries, begins and the island fades from existence.

Comments:
The parents don't do much in this issue, and they aren't even visually distinguishable – just a group of men and women. That's disappointing. I would have liked to see more action on the part of the parents; some of them had super powers and people can be very resourceful, powered or not.

The big mysteries of this story – who is Dagon, and what did Garth see that gave him a clue to Dagon's location – are not evident to the reader. We never even see Dagon's face revealed; a panel focuses on one of two suspects, without explaining why the other was eliminated, beyond the fact that Wezil Yondor had the most recent access to the vault. Somehow, it would have been more interesting if Dr. Ula Rand had been the villain, not the mad-looking, wild-haired Wezil. They could even have been working together.

We do get some good character moments. Wildfire seems particularly unstable, getting angry, not paying attention, voicing resentment of Tyroc and blaming Dawnstar. His outbursts are blamed, to some degree, on his concern over his parents, but Tasmia remains under control. Different personalities, maturities – or is Tasmia not that fussed about her mother being kidnapped? Perhaps she has full confidence in Mom's ability to take care of herself. In any event, Miss Cool Under Pressure devotes her effort to where she can help the most, appealing to Tyroc to return and help. She also defends Dawnstar against Wildfire's griping. A Shadow Lass-Dawnstar friendship would seem a natural at this point, but it never developed.

Ayla shines here as well. She's focused, logical, not afraid to criticize when appropriate, yet sympathetic. Den mother.

That Wildfire has learned to vibrate the air to speak seems a tad silly, but I can't help but wonder if it would really be possible.

We have another scene, as in the previous issue, of a random couple interacting with a Legionnaire. Last issue, it was a marooned couple, this time it's a man and woman out for a space car ride. I hadn't noticed if Conway has used this before as a story device to develop Legionnaires' personalities through encounters with "average" folk.

The ending is pretty good for the surprise and suspense, but I can't help but picture Tyroc in tartan. Of course, we figure the girls will escape Marzal in the next issue, but how will remain a mystery for now.

Dagon just doesn't come across as a menace. I don't get a sense that the parents are frightened, or that the Legionnaires are particularly worried. The whole security device mystery seemed confusing and convoluted. Copies of copies? Why would you store a security system in a vault? If he'd started killing, or hurting, the parents one by one, there would have been a greater sense of peril.

This isn't the first villain who's been driven by a false perception of the Legionnaires' role in his suffering. It's a credible motive, but a hollow one, leaving the captured Dagon with no vengeance achieved. Of such disappointments is the Legion of Super-Villains built, but Dagon simply fades into bitter obscurity.



Holy Cats of Egypt!
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 16
Future #919392 12/28/16 12:16 PM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 31,441
Tempus Fugitive
Offline
Tempus Fugitive
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 31,441
The Legionnaires race across Metropolis, beginning their search for Dagon. We get what’s supposed to be a comedy moment as Wildfire’s recklessness endangers the lives of passing aircar motorists.

Fortunately, Ayla knows that at least some of the building are modular and hollow. smile She handily lifts one to allow the air car to pass unscathed.

Last issue, Wildfire tells off Dawnstar for being delayed. Yet here, he has to stop what he’s doing to put the modular tower back together. He also threatened to end Tyroc’s Legion career for leaving the mission. Yet here, his actions nearly kill two motorists. Drake gets off lightly for being such a jerk.

Ayla does take him to task though. It’s a well worked page where he’s faced with his temper and what it results in. His silence, while looking across at Ayla speaks volumes. Part of the page gives us a reprise of some of the events of the previous issue.

That subtlety doesn’t last as we get a full infodump on the next page. We’re shown that 10 parents have been kidnapped. Reep Daggle’s father seems to be one of them, even though he wasn’t visiting the HQ along with Reep’s mother. Of course, if we have a picture of him here, then who’s RJ Brande? It’s another example that a lot of the parent details here, were later changed.

Dawnstar leads the team to a tidal energy plant. They are attacked by lasers and bats only to find that the plant is empty. Drake doesn’t take it at all well. He’s really going down on my list of people to ever vote in for Legion leadership. Tasmia’s mother is also missing, but you don’t see her having a tantrum and destroying any evidence that might be at the plant. Dagon gets to watch all this through one of those Omni Viewer things that no aspiring super villain should be without (see also Stargrave among many others). Dagon gives the game away regarding his location too.

Back at the HQ, Dawnstar tells the team that it’s the first time her powers have failed her. Poor Dawnstar. It’s the first of many, many such occasions.

Conway combines storytelling, plotting and characterisation nicely. He has set up a few overlapping, options in the story. When you need to find something, call Dawnstar. If that doesn’t work, then she can travel to Marzal to get the help of Tyroc.

That leads us into Tyroc’s disappearance subplot of last issue. Not only that, Conway keeps it relevant because Tyroc’s powers had previously been used to find a bomb in a city. Accompanying Dawny is Shadow Lass. Her parents are missing, linking her to the main plot. But she’s also got a strong friendship with Tyroc, as built up well last issue. Shady’s attitude to Dawny’s failure couldn’t be more different to Drake’s. Which is why she’s a planetary champion and he’s a bag of hot energy.

Finally, the team can use some detective work. As they return to the Pacific North West Brande facility, we learn what Ayla and Tyroc were searching through the records for last issue. Conway has gone to some length to set up the teams across recent issues with each getting panel time, and the missions the others are on is casually mentioned here. I did note that Vi and Sun Boy were on the over, but don't appear in the story.

The pacific north west team look at the likely suspects. They look a bit different each time we see them, and there’s no sign of the “Gyrich” figure from last issue. My solar credits would be on the guy who’s raving like a mad man on his employee pic, as being the villain.

Wildfire’s resignation to losing another containment suit is well done. We see that he can use his power to vibrate the air, allowing him to communicate in his energy form. Conway’s often looking for ways to showcase the Legionnaire’s powers in the middle of a story (see Drake using his power as a torch and Imra checking a building using her telepathy last issue)

Lightning Lad discovers that the Brande project Dagon has been stealing his devices form was also the one that supplied the Legion. Also to be supplied to the Legion is a self-building emergency bunker. It’s handily sign posted for our heroes, allowing us to move rather swiftly to the finale.

Fearing discovery, Dagon moves to kill the parents. They get none of the panel time form last issue, as first a swiftly travelling Wildfire and then Lightning Lad saves them. Dagon is defeated by a lightning bolt, and the gropu return through the emergency bunker, to their own headquarters.

Elsewhere, Dawny and Shady arrive in Marzal only for Tyroc to tell them that they’re going to be trapped there for the next 200 years. Marzal fades from view.

The pacing was a bit off across this story. Partly, this is due to an adjustment to a smaller page count than Conway may have liked.

For example, we get lots of pages of the parents fending off Dagon in the first part. But they are firmly statuesque hostages in the second. That indicates that the mid point cliff hanger had been decided and there was a bit of padding needed in the first half. We get a couple of interesting snippets form the parents. Jo not being much of a talker to his folks; Tasmia learning from her mother; Durla being very out of the way news wise and Dirk only having a father mentioned (which would build very much into his v4 storyline.) But all of them come as add-ons to the Legionnaires, rather than story generators in their own right. I’ve already mentioned the changing details of the parents in later stories. When they could generate their own stories, this one was ignored.

Having spent two issues defeating Dagon’s hostage taking scheme, we don’t get to find out for sure, who is under the armour. Despite three suspects being reduced to two, we still don’t get to see. There’s no confrontation, where the Legion show the villain that, not only are they also financially ruined, but that they are trying to keep going as best they can.

The last page, gives us a quick conclusion of the main plot and takes us to Marzal for a quick cliffhanger. I’ve seen Leigon relationships build from less than Shady’s “get along” comment concerning her and Tyroc. Others pointed it out last time, and I think it’s a relationship that would have been good for Shady, regardless of what level it was at. Fast forwarding to the days that Jo, Tinya, Lar and Tasmia were an inseparable quartet, it would have given Shady another strong bond in the team. I’ll be looking to see how her relationship with Dawny develops too. Dawny has had to learn to interact with others. With Drake being an emotional adolescent, Shady seems to be a much more dependable confidante.


Dagon stole all of his equipment from Brande Enterprises. So what was Brande doing with cyanide darts, devices to render Dawnstar’s powers useless, battle armour and weird bat generators? It puts Brande firmly into the arms manufacturer category we’ve seen before, rather than the benevolent star builder.


"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 16
Fat Cramer #919394 12/28/16 12:52 PM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 31,441
Tempus Fugitive
Offline
Tempus Fugitive
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 31,441
Originally Posted by Fat Cramer
The parents don't do much in this issue, and they aren't even visually distinguishable just a group of men and women.


Despite the opening pages featuring them in part one, they were more like the statues in the hall than characters in the second part.


Originally Posted by Fat Cramer
Somehow, it would have been more interesting if Dr. Ula Rand had been the villain, not the mad-looking, wild-haired Wezil. They could even have been working together.


Yeah, that would have been better. Making them part of the story.

Originally Posted by Fat Cramer
Different personalities, maturities &#150; or is Tasmia not that fussed about her mother being kidnapped? Perhaps she has full confidence in Mom's ability to take care of herself.


Tasmia's mom being involved in thumping Dagon, was the one I was expecting most. We're shown that she's very capable in part one, but she's just one of the crowd when the final confrontation arrives. Still, we did get part one to build into that champion lineage.


Originally Posted by Fat Cramer
A Shadow Lass-Dawnstar friendship would seem a natural at this point, but it never developed.


Bah! Still, it puts Shady in a good light.

Originally Posted by Fat Cramer
Ayla shines here as well. She's focused, logical, not afraid to criticize when appropriate, yet sympathetic. Den mother.


Yup, both she and Shady do well here, so credit to Conway. Imra takes a back seat, but it's space used well to highlight others. This sort of approach does Conway a lot of credit in these issues. We've Shady and Dawny to look forward to next issue too.

Originally Posted by Fat Cramer

That Wildfire has learned to vibrate the air to speak seems a tad silly, but I can't help but wonder if it would really be possible.


Years later, Drake stays out of his suit in a huff. I think he may not have been able to speak in that form in that story. But, if is *was* able too, it would make it even more of a huff. Drake doesn't change much smile

I quite liked that he could use some energy powers in his blob form. It means that the containment suit is there to direct, and expand his powers. That gets around the Legion's mechanical device issue regarding his suit.

Originally Posted by Fat Cramer
The ending is pretty good for the surprise and suspense, but I can't help but picture Tyroc in tartan.


Lord McTyroc, Master of the Marzal Glens!

Originally Posted by Fat Cramer
Dagon just doesn't come across as a menace. I don't get a sense that the parents are frightened, or that the Legionnaires are particularly worried. The whole security device mystery seemed confusing and convoluted. Copies of copies? Why would you store a security system in a vault? If he'd started killing, or hurting, the parents one by one, there would have been a greater sense of peril.

This isn't the first villain who's been driven by a false perception of the Legionnaires' role in his suffering. It's a credible motive, but a hollow one, leaving the captured Dagon with no vengeance achieved. Of such disappointments is the Legion of Super-Villains built, but Dagon simply fades into bitter obscurity.


Yeah, he doesn't amount to much in the end. Yet, we can see from other stories that he had potential. JLA villain Prometheus (whether you like him or not smile ) was designed around taking down the team. Dagon's anti Dawnstar device is a hint to that.

A lot of Iron Man's villains run around with powered suits, offsetting the large ships on their shoulders.

Having Dagon provide the basis for the LSV anti-Legion/ Security weapons would make him more of an appropriate member than a lot of the others they've had in their roster over the years.

We never got to find out where the Legion were supposed to leave the solar credits. They didn't make any attempt to fake interest in getting them to stall Dagon either. A hostage movie that gives up on being one in the first act.


"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 16
thoth lad #919449 12/29/16 02:43 AM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 16,853
Time Trapper
Offline
Time Trapper
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 16,853
Originally Posted by thoth lad

Ayla does take him to task though. It’s a well worked page where he’s faced with his temper and what it results in. His silence, while looking across at Ayla speaks volumes. Part of the page gives us a reprise of some of the events of the previous issue.


Wasn't that a great scene? She should light into him more often (maybe she will, in future issues, but I don't recall any such interaction).

Quote
That subtlety doesn’t last as we get a full infodump on the next page. We’re shown that 10 parents have been kidnapped. Reep Daggle’s father seems to be one of them, even though he wasn’t visiting the HQ along with Reep’s mother. Of course, if we have a picture of him here, then who’s RJ Brande? It’s another example that a lot of the parent details here, were later changed.


Untold story: those weren't Reep's parents, they were imposters - and later discovered and their devious evil plot foiled.


Quote
Back at the HQ, Dawnstar tells the team that it’s the first time her powers have failed her. Poor Dawnstar. It’s the first of many, many such occasions.


I guess it becomes a catch-all excuse when the writer needs an extended or convoluted search. Dawnstar's version of kryptonite, or magic, or lead... how many other Legionnaires have a sure-to-fail power block when needed?



Quote
Shady’s attitude to Dawny’s failure couldn’t be more different to Drake’s. Which is why she’s a planetary champion and he’s a bag of hot energy.


laugh

Quote
Dagon stole all of his equipment from Brande Enterprises. So what was Brande doing with cyanide darts, devices to render Dawnstar’s powers useless, battle armour and weird bat generators? It puts Brande firmly into the arms manufacturer category we’ve seen before, rather than the benevolent star builder.


Makes sense to me. Star building and weapons manufacture can co-exist very profitably. (Not that I know from personal experience, of course.)


Holy Cats of Egypt!
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 16
Fat Cramer #919459 12/29/16 09:16 AM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 31,441
Tempus Fugitive
Offline
Tempus Fugitive
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 31,441
Originally Posted by Fat Cramer
Untold story: those weren't Reep's parents, they were imposters - and later discovered and their devious evil plot foiled.


I heard that the imposters were also impostors who themselves had been impersonated by lookalikes!

I believe the writer was taken away frothing at the mouth shouting "They're Here, they're everywhere...they're ...me!" at that point.

Originally Posted by Fat Cramer
I guess it becomes a catch-all excuse when the writer needs an extended or convoluted search. Dawnstar's version of kryptonite, or magic, or lead... how many other Legionnaires have a sure-to-fail power block when needed?.


I get the feeling they were looking to rein in having to disable Dawny's powers, by introducing the more limited Mwindaji. That was all part of a general powering down of the team.

Of course, Dawny could use her solar credits to take over the company that makes such devices, and place unique energy signatures in them. She might not be able to detect the person using the jamming device, but she can totally trace the jamming devices.

Quote
Shady's attitude to Dawny's failure couldn't be more different to Drake's. Which is why she's a planetary champion and he's a bag of hot energy.



Originally Posted by Fat Cramer
Makes sense to me. Star building and weapons manufacture can co-exist very profitably. (Not that I know from personal experience, of course.)


They sure can. Marla was just telling me the other day... ahem... you could say that birthing stars allows for planetary systems. Systems that powers need to control. Cue handy weapons catalogue from the guy who just gave you the star. If only I could do something on Bits with the Legion... oh wait... Behind Brande's Durlan form is one of a Space Weasel smile


"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 16
Future #919901 01/02/17 11:41 PM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 16,853
Time Trapper
Offline
Time Trapper
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 16,853
#265 Brigadoon Syndrome! by Gerry Conway(plot), J.M. DeMatteis (script) art by Jim Janes & Dave Hunt, colours Gene D'Angelo, letters Milt Snapinn

[Linked Image]

Shadow Lass, Dawnstar and Tyroc are on Marzal, which has disappeared from Earth. People are amazed but not frightened; Tyroc announced that it's all his fault.

The three Legionnaires fly into a psychedelic sky and see a chunk of land which is Marzal floating in space. Dawnstar concludes they are in another dimension then is stunned by a sunburst. Shadow Lass flies after her as she falls through the air, but, in breaking her fall, is also knocked out. Tyroc shouts and both women land on a solidified cloud. The three return to Tyroc's home on Marzal, where he informs them that they are stranded there for the rest of their lives.

He recounts the history of his people, Africans who broke free of their slavers and were washed ashore on an island which they named Marzal. The island at that point slipped into another dimension; the people only knew that they were safe from the white devils who had enslaved them. They settled and prospered, eventually discovering that every two hundred years, Marzal returned to Earth for three decades – like the Scottish legend of Brigadoon.

Tyroc was born in that other dimension. He discovered his powers one day when a demon-like creature threatened his schoolmates. He mastered his sonic power and became the island's super-hero. When Marzal returned to Earth, Tyroc came into contact with the Legion. He suspects that using his powers on Earth has affected Marzal and caused the land to enter the other dimension prematurely. He suspects that if he were to return to Earth now, he would consign Marzal to this other dimension forever.

Shadow Lass suggests that he use his power to open a portal so that everyone may escape. Tyroc tells her that his people would not want to leave their home, but he might be able to create a doorway for his fellow Legionnaires. They go to the dimensional barrier where Tyroc summons all his strength to open a portal briefly; Shady tells him there is always hope, just as the portal closes. Dawnstar tracks the way back to Legion HQ, earning high praise from Shady, and telling Lightning Lad, Saturn Girl and Wildfire that Tyroc may be lost forever, although she thinks they may see him again.

Comments:

This was an unusual way to get rid of a character. Rather than killing off Tyroc, the writers (and editor?) exile him in another dimension, along with friends, family and a viable civilization. It's the future, and there's Brainiac 5 and the Phantom Zone and the Bgtzl Dimension and all sorts of cool stuff, so it's conceivable that Tyroc could return at any time.

The story is part Roots, part Brigadoon. Marzalians could have seen the play or the movie on one of their earlier returns to Earth. What seems strange, however, is that nobody noticed an island that kept popping in and out of existence. So much for Aids to Navigation. Even in 1980, it must have been a stretch to imagine that an island, large enough to sustain a civilization, could be missed on the charts.

It's obvious that Marzal made the most of its occasional return to Earth space, since their technology appears to have kept up with Earth's to some degree. When we see the tall towers of Marzal, are we seeing the architecture of Earth from 200 years earlier?

It's a bit presumptuous of Shady to think Tyroc would rather be with the Legion than with his fellow Marzalians, or that the entire population of Marzal would prefer to live full-time on Earth – but she has demonstrated a rather lacklustre devotion to Talok VIII, so maybe it's something she just doesn't understand. I note that she doesn't ask what happened to Mummy and the other parents, but that's likely due to page constraints. Still, a sentence or two could have made the link to the previous issue for better continuity.

There has been some criticism of this story as an advocate for segregation. I don't read it that way. The people who settled on Marzal weren't sent there, nor did they choose to remove themselves from the rest of the world. They demonstrated that, as a group, they could survive, build lives for themselves and progress as a society. That they chose to remain there, rather than integrate with the rest of the terran population, speaks more to their satisfaction with all that they and their ancestors built, rather than rejection of the outside world.

Nevertheless, the Marzal story could have been strengthened by having some Marzalians "stranded" on Earth, as has been suggested, and working to find a way to contact their families. Of course, that would imply that DC wanted to keep Tyroc in the picture, which doesn't seem likely at this point, given the rather vague open ending of this tale.



Last edited by Fat Cramer; 01/02/17 11:42 PM.

Holy Cats of Egypt!
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 16
Fat Cramer #919905 01/03/17 04:53 AM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 2,104
K
Leader
Offline
Leader
K
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 2,104
Originally Posted by Fat Cramer
This was an unusual way to get rid of a character. Rather than killing off Tyroc, the writers (and editor?) exile him in another dimension, along with friends, family and a viable civilization.


Same thing happened with Queen Projectra and Orando, and with Black Witch and Sorcerer's World. As you mentioned, very convenient if you want to leave the possibility open that the character will someday return, but you don't want to deal with them right now.


“I'm not crazy about reality, but it's still the only place to get a decent meal.” -- Groucho Marx
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 16
Future #919925 01/03/17 08:29 AM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 34,634
Bold Flavors
Offline
Bold Flavors
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 34,634
LSH #264

I’m back from a holiday break that didn’t leave much time for comic book reading (in a good way) but before I comment on the latest, I wanted to give my comments on the issue, I missed #264. There isn’t much to say that hasn’t already been covered other than this is yet another issue that throws out my preconceived notions of this Conway run being “weak” or “unsatisfying”; instead, I found it was another issue that I enjoyed immensely that very nicely balanced the main plot with some really nice characterizations. Dagon, while not much of a threat, is a natural extension of the prior financial stories. Meanwhile, we see more glimpses into the LSHers: Garth being a strong leader, Wildfire showing some good emotion, Shady’s friendship with Tyroc, Shady & Dawnstar having a really nice scene, Ayla being very clear-headed and taking a leadership role, etc. All of it was quite enjoyable!

Plus, the art by Jimmy Janes & Dave Hunt is really terrific. We also appear to be reaching a point in the early 80’s where the coloring and / or paper appear to be getting better as the issues just feel more modern.

Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 16
Future #919927 01/03/17 08:30 AM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 34,634
Bold Flavors
Offline
Bold Flavors
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 34,634
Legion of Super-Heroes #265

LSH #265 is the first issue in awhile that I outright just didn’t like at all. And so much of that is an extension of why I haven’t liked a lot of previous Tyroc stories, in that I’m constantly left wondering “what if?” rather than finding anything to enjoy about them. This one in particular was tough to swallow and I think that’s largely because of some editorial changes going on (I’ll explain in a moment). What we get is almost an entire issue devoted to explaining Tyroc’s origins, including his powers and Marzal, and then in the final pages, we simply get Dawnstar & Shadow Lass returning home, while Tyroc is then written out of the series for good! So we get all this build-up and then there goes Tyroc—not to be seen other than a few cameos here and there for 30 years until Levitz “mark 3” finally decides to try to make something of him. It’s disheartening to see a Legionnaire so easily discarded as Tyroc was, and over the years I’ve come up with my own ways to use him, refine his powers, change his look, etc., like so many other Legion fans have. Because ultimately, what we ended up with kind of sucks.

It’s made all the more odd that a few issues prior, Gerry Conway promised readers he had big plans for Tyroc and wanted to make him a strong member of the ongoing Legion cast. We ended up with some of those “big plans” but then Tyroc was written out, so I can’t help but wonder if Gerry was overruled and someone decided Tyroc had to go—either because of his powers being too hard to define or because he was deemed too offensive or too much resembling the angry black man stereotype of several years earlier. And then Gerry tried to plug in all his “good ideas” in Tyroc’s send-off story so he didn’t waste them? Or maybe it was Gerry himself, who knows. But clearly plans were changed mid-stream. The end result is an okay historical drama focused on an uncomfortable topic that ultimately writes out the only African-American Legionnaire. In a few years, Levitz would introduce us to Jacques Focquart, who is a character I really like, but one always can’t help but wonder if his French accent, legacy basis and soft-spoken ways didn’t make him more palatable to DC editorial (and fans in general).

Alas, this is comics, and I fully expect and hope the LSH will outlive us all. So who knows—maybe Tyroc’s moment in the sun is only a few years away and he’ll be the star Legionnaire of the 2020’s?

Anyway, the rest of the issue is kind of overshadowed by all of this but I have to again say how great the art has been. I also like the idea of Shady and Dawny becoming close, which we don’t really ever see in the future. One can speculate that the Dawny / Tinya friction which we eventually see under Levitz perhaps hindered Dawnstar from becoming a better friend of Shady over time?

Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 16
Future #919929 01/03/17 08:32 AM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 34,634
Bold Flavors
Offline
Bold Flavors
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 34,634
In catching up on comments, I have to agree with FC and Thoth that the ultimate reveal of Dagon would have worked better if it was the female former Brande employee, Ula Rand, or even better, if it was both her and the crazy looking dude it turned out to be. A slight difference but it would have worked better and been less on the nose.

Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 16
Future #919955 01/03/17 11:18 AM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 31,441
Tempus Fugitive
Offline
Tempus Fugitive
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 31,441
Superboy 265

Right, I’ll just put my issue down here on a chair, and get a cup of tea….

…Oh Noes! The chair was linked to Marzal…and it’ll “never be able to return!”

Never being able to return was the warning cry given, by Lightning Lad, to Dawny and Shady on the cover. Unfortunately, there wasn’t space for their respective replies of “At least I’ll be free of the Wildfire romance subplot” and “I’m finally away from moody Coma Kid!”

Globes of light surround Dawny, Tyroc and Shady on the splash page. Yes, it’s disco night on Marzal! Actually, every night is 70’s disco night on Marzal. So, it must be something else that’s upsetting Tyroc.

Ah yes, this is the issue where DC try to hide their racial faux pas by teleporting it all away. Leaving us once again with a universe of white people. Ummmmm…

The island nation of Marzal is teleported to another dimension. It’s something that happens every two hundred years, but Tyroc’s powers have shortened that time frame. Tyroc opts to stay with his island, and leaves the Legion.

Note that, despite the rather sudden departure, and being told that the Marzialians love the Earth, there’s no one other than the locals trapped on the way back. Is Marzal’s tourist board that bad?

Conway writes a lot of captions to describe the transition of Marzal from our dimension. “Like a great ghost riding a wave,” being a bit of a low point. “A sky unlike any other human eyes have ever beheld!” says the caption, except that the people of Marzal make the trip every couple of centuries.

Despite all the captions, we then have to be shown that Marzal is in a different dimension, so we get a side trip above the island, where Shady and Dawny are knocked out so that Tyroc can save them. It all feels like it should be condensed.

The explanation is another area that could have been shortened. It’s a seven page info dump on the history of Marzal. Slaves overcome their captors and escape to an island that magically disappears five minutes later.

Plus points from moving away from the idea that all black people had ended up on Marzal. Minus points as every page delivers its own problems. From the terms used and the historical reference to the dubious parallel culture the residents adopt. DC should have realised that the longer they drag this out, the worse it looks.

Based on pretty much nothing, Tyroc reasons that his powers are causing his home island to return to the other dimension more quickly.

Next month: Superboy retires after coming to the conclusion that his solar based powers are draining the sun!

Special Back Up: Lightning Lad realises that the lightning he summons is creating storm fronts that are causing environmental disaster and quits! Right after Cosmic Boy fears that he might be destabilising Earth’s magnetic core… and quits!

Right.

Tyroc uses just enough of his power to send the two Legionnaires back home. They had to be with him, in Marzal, to hear DC’s excuses. Oddly, Brainy doesn’t show up with any device that he’s been using to analyse the space/time vibrations and can counter them. He must have been busy on other Handwavium solutions that month.

The final panel hints that “somehow—I think we will be seeing him again…”

And we do. Years later when the Dominators kill pretty much everyone on the island nation. They did that by using their technology to bring the island back into our dimension. Hey Brainy! The Dominators managed to bring it back easily enough!

A plus point is the Shady/ Tyroc relationship. Shady really supports him in the issue. I hadn’t realised how strong their connection was before the reread. Without their partners, the adventure might have been good for a Dawny/ Shady friendship too.

Another plus point is that Marzal gets extra dimensional visitors! So, even when it’s not in our Dimension, it’s not disconnected form everything. Bits potential there.

The art is good, but this is not an issue I’m going to remember fondly.


"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 16
thoth lad #919987 01/03/17 11:50 PM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 16,853
Time Trapper
Offline
Time Trapper
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 16,853
Originally Posted by Cobalt Kid

It’s made all the more odd that a few issues prior, Gerry Conway promised readers he had big plans for Tyroc and wanted to make him a strong member of the ongoing Legion cast. We ended up with some of those “big plans” but then Tyroc was written out, so I can’t help but wonder if Gerry was overruled and someone decided Tyroc had to go—either because of his powers being too hard to define or because he was deemed too offensive or too much resembling the angry black man stereotype of several years earlier. And then Gerry tried to plug in all his “good ideas” in Tyroc’s send-off story so he didn’t waste them? Or maybe it was Gerry himself, who knows. But clearly plans were changed mid-stream.


I'd really like to have been the fly on the wall at DC offices when this story was discussed. Tyroc just never got a chance to develop. The trio of Shady-Dawnstar-Tyroc could have been a really good clique for Legion stories.

Quote
I also like the idea of Shady and Dawny becoming close, which we don’t really ever see in the future. One can speculate that the Dawny / Tinya friction which we eventually see under Levitz perhaps hindered Dawnstar from becoming a better friend of Shady over time?


That's interesting. Maybe Tinya was actually jealous of Tasmia's friendship with Dawnstar and undermined it.

Originally Posted by thoth lad

Right, I’ll just put my issue down here on a chair, and get a cup of tea….

…Oh Noes! The chair was linked to Marzal…and it’ll “never be able to return!”


Were you insured for that kind of property loss?


Quote
Conway writes a lot of captions to describe the transition of Marzal from our dimension. “Like a great ghost riding a wave,” being a bit of a low point. “A sky unlike any other human eyes have ever beheld!” says the caption, except that the people of Marzal make the trip every couple of centuries.


His prose did get a bit flowery here.

Quote
Despite all the captions, we then have to be shown that Marzal is in a different dimension, so we get a side trip above the island, where Shady and Dawny are knocked out so that Tyroc can save them. It all feels like it should be condensed.


The same thing happened in the Space Circus issue. Once you're lost in the psychedelic skies of another dimension, you're lost forever.

Quote
Plus points from moving away from the idea that all black people had ended up on Marzal. Minus points as every page delivers its own problems. From the terms used and the historical reference to the dubious parallel culture the residents adopt. DC should have realised that the longer they drag this out, the worse it looks.


Probably beyond the scope of 1980s comics, but it would have been more intriguing if Marzal had developed a very different society than that of the rest of Earth.

Quote
Special Back Up: Lightning Lad realises that the lightning he summons is creating storm fronts that are causing environmental disaster and quits! Right after Cosmic Boy fears that he might be destabilising Earth’s magnetic core… and quits!


So Earthgov was right to ban the Legion after all.

Quote
Years later when the Dominators kill pretty much everyone on the island nation. They did that by using their technology to bring the island back into our dimension. Hey Brainy! The Dominators managed to bring it back easily enough!


I don't remember why the Dominators destroyed Marzal, but since Keith Giffen was writing the tale, maybe Karate Kid was there at the time.



Holy Cats of Egypt!
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 16
Fat Cramer #920018 01/04/17 11:39 AM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 31,441
Tempus Fugitive
Offline
Tempus Fugitive
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 31,441
Originally Posted by Fat Cramer
I don't remember why the Dominators destroyed Marzal, but since Keith Giffen was writing the tale, maybe Karate Kid was there at the time.


The Dominators analysed Tyroc's cry, and caused the return of Marzal. This was in order to declare the residents of Marzal Khund sympathisers/ terrorists and destroy them to show the Earthlings that they needed their strong Dominion allies.

I think most of that was in the 2995 Sourcebook.


"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 16
Future #920337 01/09/17 09:30 PM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 16,853
Time Trapper
Offline
Time Trapper
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 16,853
#266 The Thing in the Jar/Kantuu by Gerry Conway, J.M. DeMatteis (script) art by Jim Janes & Frank Chiaramonte, colours Gene D'Angelo, letters Costanza

[Linked Image]

Back on Wondil IX, the “delightfully self-duplicating Duo Damsel” and husband Chuck are mining crystallak ore. Chuck enjoys the lack of pressure compared to being in the Legion, but admits he is bored. Lu thinks to herself that they haven't had a real challenge since settling on this planet. Suddenly, the digger-beam malfunctions and everything explodes. Chuck is able to bounce away from the explosion and is carried away by the two Lus. A kiss brings him back to consciousness and he explains that he hit a magnetic hotspot which somehow triggered the explosion. Exploring the cave, they discover a container embedded in the ice. Lu advises waiting for the other colonists but Chuck says, as ex-Legionnaires, they're expected to be the heroes – so he starts chipping away. Steam arises, followed by an explosion and the appearance of a gigantic being, who announces himself as Kantuu, free for the first time in millenia. Unaware of the puny humans, Kantuu flies into the air, knocking aside the approaching ice-sleds of other colonists.

Chuck pulls out some old Legion equipment and determines that Kantuu is headed for Earth, a conclusion which is bolstered by his Arabic tongue.

At Legion HQ, Element Lad and Colossal Boy engage in a bit of competition with extremely heavy weights when the emergency alarm sounds, interrupting the wager. It's a message from Lu and Chuck, returning to Earth and warning the Legion that the demonic force of Kantuu is en route to Earth as well and defying all laws of physics.

Jan and Gim take a cruiser to investigate, although Gim believes it's all mythical nonsense and the Taines might have made up the story out of boredom. The question is resolved by the appearance of Kantuu, who speaks of a duty to fulfill. The two Legionnaires attempt to fight him, without success. Chuck and Lu arrive on the scene; Chuck commands the djinn to go back to his bottle, also without success. Kantuu leaves the four unconscious and flies off amid fading “telepathic laughter”.

Comments:

Giant demons in space...ugh. So it's a demonic force in the shape of a demon, but still doesn't work for me. The story is drawn out. It's a slow build until we see Kantuu released and not that enticing a mystery. We know there's going to be a demon-like antagonist from the cover.

I did enjoy seeing the Taines again, with hints that their time on Wondil IX may be drawing to a close.

We also had a nice scene of friendly competition between Jan and Gim, although for Gim, it maybe wasn't so friendly. His slight resentment of Jan is credible. Despite years in the Legion and having experienced many fantastic things, he immediately discounts the Taines' story of a demon. He suspects they are making up stories because their life is boring. These two scenes paint Gim in a somewhat negative light, a bit grouchy, a bit of “poor me”, a naysayer.

There's also an Earth-centric idea that the two native Terrans, Chuck and Gim, are the ones who recognize Arabic.

There are no heavy-hitters to fight Kantuu, yet even if there were, the demon might have the upper hand. He's described as a force, which defies the laws of physics. As the story ends, Kantuu is unstoppable and there are no other Legionnaires in sight – so there's some anticipation for how the story may resolve in the next issue.







Holy Cats of Egypt!
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 16
Future #920353 01/10/17 05:28 AM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 34,634
Bold Flavors
Offline
Bold Flavors
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 34,634
LSH #266 is yet another one of those Conway issues I have always dismissed as being subpar but have honestly never really given it a proper chance. In doing so now, I find it a bit of a mixed bag. The limited amount of Legionnaires and some convenient plotting / pacing are negatives in the writing; yet at the end of the day I still found it relatively entertaining and it was certainly a lot better than I remember. The art, by Jimmy Janes, continues to be very good, and presents some classic Bronze Age superhero action.

The big draw is the return of Bouncing Boy and Duo Damsel who are still trying to be colonists at this point, with the big question in the letter’s page being whether they’ll rejoin the main roster. While I personally wasn’t begging for their return, I can see how fans who only know them as obscure members at this point might be, and it adds a little novelty to the story. We’ve discussed both Chuck and Luornu many times over the course of these reviews and without repeating any of that, I’ll just add that I continue to really like the way they’re written. The idea of a married couple still having adventures appeals to me (especially now that I’m married), and the idea of someone who is retired yearning for a challenge—and maybe not even realizing it—is one I’ve seen many times over among people I know, including my own father. So it resonates and instantly makes me want to route for them.

Kaantu is a bit one-note and kind of a cliché villain du jour. That being said, he’s got a good look and there is a lot of potential for him that is never followed up on. I’m not sure if its explained next issue how he ended up in deep space (and since it’s Conway it probably will be), but it would be really cool to tie that somehow to Mordru’s history. He’s certainly a powerful foe and could be utilized to show a large amount of Legionnaires working together which we don’t get in this issue.

We also get some good scenes with Element Lad, who comes off well here and Colossal Boy, who does not. Not only does Gim call Jan a “lucky” Legionnaire, forgetting the fact that he’s the sole survivor of genocide, he even proposes that Luornu and Chuck made Kaantu up to get some attention. It’s not a good look though surely that isn’t Conway’s intent, after all he needs to find ways to make the dialogue interesting and the back and forth between Jan and Gim a little sharper. In 1980, lots and lots of superheroes said things like that so I’m used to it, but still, it does stick out in a kind of a funny way. (If say, Hawkman, said that today about the Birds of Prey or Cyborg, there would be a catastrophic online / tumblr backlash against the creators which would be both hilarious and tragic).

The pacing, as mentioned, is a bit convenient, but at least it doesn’t waste time in keeping the issue moving along. A few subplots or interludes would be appreciated but the series just isn’t there yet—only year and a half to Levitz when that really starts to be noticeable.

Of special note is the awesome series of house ads that litter the title from start to finish. DC was really promoting itself heavily at this point and with good reason, as the company was starting to really kick into high gear for a seriously great era. The New Teen Titans ad is great, the ad about the various new back-ups is awesome, and even GI Combat and Mystery in Space have great ads.

Also of special note is a fan takes the LSH to task in the letter’s page for not following up on the fact that if Brainy really was responsible for framing Jo then he killed Ann Rynd and that’s a bit of a no-no. The editors admit he’s right and promise to follow-up on this…and thus, the wheels are in motion for the next Pulsar Stargrave story to be created in just as big an editorial mess as the first one! smile

Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 16
Fat Cramer #920354 01/10/17 05:30 AM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 34,634
Bold Flavors
Offline
Bold Flavors
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 34,634
Originally Posted by Fat Cramer

Giant demons in space...ugh. So it's a demonic force in the shape of a demon, but still doesn't work for me. The story is drawn out. It's a slow build until we see Kantuu released and not that enticing a mystery. We know there's going to be a demon-like antagonist from the cover.



That's a good way to put it. I think if most of us were editors, especially for the LSH and the writer proposed "giant demon in space..." it would be a quick "--Pass. Next?"

But I guess, it was the 70's?

Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 16
Future #920391 01/10/17 12:59 PM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 31,441
Tempus Fugitive
Offline
Tempus Fugitive
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 31,441
Legion 266

Lu & Chuck have moved to an ice world colony, where Chuck releases a genie from its containment.

For me, the opening captions were very much of their time, and of his writing style. Conway is trying to take the reader into a story. But we don’t really need to be told it’s a story, so it just gets in the way for me. He does get points for connecting the captions to the visuals through the number of Luornus though.

The nine page first scene with Lu (also called Lourna this issue) and Chuck is steadily plotted, revealing details of their relationship and plans while introducing the story threat. This probably could have been a single parter,. Instead, we get an unrushed introduction, the discovery of an anomaly, and then the further reveal of what caused it before it gets loose. It’s a more cinematic approach to the plotting.

Unfortunately, Lu tells us all about Chuck’s feelings rather than her own in this scene. It’s Chuck who wanted to go to the colonies and it’s he who is getting a little bored by the lack of a challenge. He’ll certainly be getting one. Once the genie he releases is dispatched (Aladdin playing somewhere near Conway that month?) , he’ll have to face hordes of Xeno-Archeologists and Colonial Health & Safety Boards. Space…where no one can hear your screams for help under the paperwork.

Chuck gets to showcase both his powers and his light heartedness. It’s just a shame that the latter was in trying to pretend he was seriously injured to his wife.

It’s a decent concept for a story: Excavators on a distant ice world, discover an anomaly and release an ancient evil into the galaxy.

Those captions could have been better used setting up the atmosphere, to make the most of the space devoted to the scene. The released evil could have been a little less like all the other genies released from bottles. I am wondering if the pointy slippers would suit Mordru’s outfit.

The former Legionnaires get one more chance to show their powers to save an air sled (although Chuck would have been quicker just flying directly up to the sled). Chuck has his “challenge” subplot resolved, and we get a nice link between the ice world and Earth, the destination of the vengeful genie.

In the Legion HQ, Gim and Jan are having a friendly bet. Conway is giving us a little bit of characterisation on them, as the alarm sounds. It’s odd to think of Jan as lucky, considering his origin. But then, his survival could all be part of that luck too. He also pinched the costume meant for Gim.

Conway provides the earth based side of the story with a traditional genie and adds trapping such as “class 8 mega bomb”, “plasma energy” and “hyperspace relay stations” to give it a sci-fi gloss. Despite having such huge power, Kantuu is content simply to knock the Legionnaires unconscious. Perhaps he’s just not that blood thirsty, despite his boast that “My fury shall shake the stars!”

Despite his doubts, Gim is quick to try and contact Lu & Chuck on the chance that the old Genie myths really are true. We’ve just been told by Chuck that there’s no way to contact Earth (presumably the Legion) but then Jan is able to send off a message to them.
There’s a well-paced, tense end of page panel as we wait to see if it worked. But it doesn’t and Kantuu is free to resume his path to Earth… next issue.

In summary, it’s a solid Conway issue. We have a good concept, with a well-paced story. Conway has used the cast really well, allowing for rotation across sub groups to highlight a number of characters. Here it’s Chuck, Lu, Jan and Gim. While Lu is characterised through Chuck, we see more of her through her actions, as we do with Gim. Colossal Boy’s quick thinking, yet direct approach and visual; power use rounds out a very good issue for him. He does lose points for suggesting that Lu and Chuck made up the threat though.

While the villain is a bit silly, it’s not that different from so many others across the years of comics. There’s quite a bit more in the credit column to outweigh it.


"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 16
thoth lad #920466 01/11/17 10:02 PM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 16,853
Time Trapper
Offline
Time Trapper
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 16,853
Originally Posted by thoth lad

Unfortunately, Lu tells us all about Chuck’s feelings rather than her own in this scene. It’s Chuck who wanted to go to the colonies and it’s he who is getting a little bored by the lack of a challenge. He’ll certainly be getting one. Once the genie he releases is dispatched (Aladdin playing somewhere near Conway that month?) , he’ll have to face hordes of Xeno-Archeologists and Colonial Health & Safety Boards. Space…where no one can hear your screams for help under the paperwork.


It would have been good to have both points of view, like "he's bored and I'm going ice-mad with boredom". Perhaps we can chalk it up to life experience, but Lu seems to have taken a more dominant role in the recent Academy stories.

Quote
It’s a decent concept for a story: Excavators on a distant ice world, discover an anomaly and release an ancient evil into the galaxy.


It is a decent concept, but I must be genie-phobic.

Quote
Those captions could have been better used setting up the atmosphere, to make the most of the space devoted to the scene. The released evil could have been a little less like all the other genies released from bottles. I am wondering if the pointy slippers would suit Mordru’s outfit.


Less cliché genie would have helped a great deal, IMO. Same basic concept, different look. You've touched on another untold tale: Mordru attacks Kantuu for the slippers, accusing him of theft.

Quote
In the Legion HQ, Gim and Jan are having a friendly bet. Conway is giving us a little bit of characterisation on them, as the alarm sounds. It’s odd to think of Jan as lucky, considering his origin. But then, his survival could all be part of that luck too. He also pinched the costume meant for Gim.


It is an odd label for Jan but one could attribute it to being the lone survivor. Gim should reflect on the good fortune of his own life compared to Jan's loss and learn a little gratitude.

Quote
Conway provides the earth based side of the story with a traditional genie and adds trapping such as “class 8 mega bomb”, “plasma energy” and “hyperspace relay stations” to give it a sci-fi gloss. Despite having such huge power, Kantuu is content simply to knock the Legionnaires unconscious. Perhaps he’s just not that blood thirsty, despite his boast that “My fury shall shake the stars!”


"And you shall live to witness my magnificence" or something like that. The sci fi trappings are a good contrast with this ancient force - although it might have been cooler if Kantuu had disrupted them with magic instead of brute force.

Quote
We’ve just been told by Chuck that there’s no way to contact Earth (presumably the Legion) but then Jan is able to send off a message to them.


More of Jan's good luck!

Quote
In summary, it’s a solid Conway issue. We have a good concept, with a well-paced story. Conway has used the cast really well, allowing for rotation across sub groups to highlight a number of characters. Here it’s Chuck, Lu, Jan and Gim. While Lu is characterised through Chuck, we see more of her through her actions, as we do with Gim. Colossal Boy’s quick thinking, yet direct approach and visual; power use rounds out a very good issue for him. He does lose points for suggesting that Lu and Chuck made up the threat though.


All right, you've convinced me. The story does have its merits, particularly for the sub-group of Legion characters, and Colossal Boy is somewhat redeemed in my eyes.



Holy Cats of Egypt!
Page 2 of 4 1 2 3 4

Link Copied to Clipboard
ShoutChat
Forum Statistics
Forums14
Topics21,018
Posts1,044,853
Legionnaires1,729
Most Online53,886
Jan 7th, 2024
Newest Legionnaires
Mimi, max kord, Duke, CBSutherland2000, Arumidden
1,729 Registered Legionnaires
Today's Birthdays
There are no members with birthdays on this day.
Random Holo-Vids
Who's Who in the LMBP
My Whee Fem
My Whee Fem
Security Office Lobby
Posts: 149
Joined: March 2009
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5