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#925061 - 04/03/17 12:19 PM Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 17 [Re: Fat Cramer]  
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thoth lad Offline
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Originally Posted by Cramer
This issue begins what I consider to be a tedious and drawn out story. Just a few comments because I'm rushing.


Yeah, I've posted on a few occasions that this was one part of the rereads I wasn't particularly looking forward to. But I think that feeling might have overshadowed this issue, which was fine to me.


Originally Posted by Cramer
... but Imra shows herself the true hero, not only for not reacting to Tinya's criticism, but for reaching out to help soothe Tinya.


I was wondering if Imra felt that she now had a bond with Tinya. I was also wondering just how much of that bond Tinya truly felt back, or more precisely how long it would last once she was back in her clingy relationship with Jo.

Originally Posted by Cramer
Jo appears to be the only good-looking pirate on Frake's ship. Is the Captain a maneater, literally? Did her other toyboys walk the plank?


She's a maneater. No, literally. Supplies at in short demand and they're wanted pirates... smile


Originally Posted by Cramer
The Legionnaires seemed to give up on Jo pretty quickly! Brainy should have had some device to detect what happened...


I was reminded of the old Adventure days, where the Legionnaires absolute sense of duty would override any personal loss that they clearly felt for their fallen comrades.

Originally Posted by Cramer
...but then we wouldn't have a tedious and drawn-out story ahead of us. Am I being harsh?


No, I'm still not looking forward to the rest of it.

Originally Posted by Cramer
Could this story be improved by an affair between Garth and Jeckie


They did look as though they shared a common thought there. Which is a real shame for Imra. It would end up being Imra's sense of closeness to others that would be closest to an affair with Brin. I recall a Super Sulky of Space Garth going on about it. What Imra saw in the Ayla/Brin relationship there was what she saw in the Tinya/Jo story here. Something she feels that she could never be close enough to someone to have, due to her abilities. Which is a shame. The real reason that she feels that her relationship is slightly remote, is that she married a Protean in a Corpse. That's just not going to come up in counselling sessions too often.



"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
#925103 - 04/04/17 03:58 AM Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 17 [Re: thoth lad]  
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Originally Posted by thoth lad
LoSH 274

Last issue Pulsar Stargrave blasted Ultra Boy. Jo had oddly dropped his ultra-invulnerability as he went to save Tinya from the villain. He was blasted into oblivion, which in DC circles is a small Pacific island in the 20th century where characters go for some R&R when no body has been found after their apparent demise. Jo’s journey reminds me of a later dimensional trip he made following his encounter with Roxxas in v4.


Good point, I'm trying to think if there are other stories in which he vanished. Levitz had a team disappear with Orando but I don't recall if he was part of that.

Quote
Jo seems not to have been teleported away by Stargrave, but simply blasted off Rimbor entirely at super speed, which doesn’t seem to work as well. His Legion flight ring has been turned to slag, but there’s still enough of his costume left to form his Ultra Boy logo. But rather than ask about that, he gets a change of clothes and another link to his past is gone.


Hah! I guess that logo is so common (Marla could be marketing it), nobody thought to remark on it. Even the pirates - Ultra Boy shirt, Ultra Boy powers, who is this guy?

Quote
They are unable to recognise him in the space suit he wears, but Jo’s actions slow as the ghosts of recollection begin to haunt his mind. Tinya is the last to confront him, showing that she can disrupt someone’s biological systems by phasing through them. Jo does manage to knock her out, but flees when he looks at her. In another story, the love that we saw between them in Tinya’s memories would have been enough to shock Jo back, leading to a quite different ending. Here, he doesn’t quite remember, and flees back to the pirates.


It's a good change from what we'd expect (the lovers reuniting) and serves to continue the story.

Quote
Without anyone to confide in, she wonders if she imaged sensing Jo in the encounter. Perhaps she feels as though she was influenced by Tinya’s rush of loving memories. This reaction would also recur during Imra and Brin Londo’s time trapped on an asteroid in a Levitz story. There, Imra’s sense of love between Brin and Ayla resulted in her growing close to Brin, as if reaching out for that love. Looking at both together, seems to illustrate just how lonely Imra must feel sometimes.


As we'll see in the next issue, she doubts herself a second time. This is pretty rare for Imra, isn't it? She's sometimes unclear, but I don't know that she has thought she's imagining the mental images she picks up.

Quote
I liked the shape of the story in this one. We have two plots, with Jo on one side and the Legion (through Tinya and Imra) on the other. The two interweave at the start, before breaking off into parallel solo development (memories), then combine once more in the space battle, only to separate into two ongoing plot threads again at the end of a single issue story. It’s a nice example of the craft that goes into writing a comic book.


True, and I was a bit harsh on this story. It is well balanced.



Holy Cats of Egypt!
#925104 - 04/04/17 04:11 AM Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 17 [Re: Fat Cramer]  
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Caf Cramer
LSH #275, Of Pride, Passion and Piracy by Gerry Conway, art by Jimmy James & Frank Chiaramonte, colours G. D'Angelo, letters Ben Oda

[Linked Image]

Garth reviews the pirate problem and prepares another mission to find them; Imra is troubled but won't reveal why.

Jo, still without his memory, helps the pirates and discovers his innate super-powers as well as an aversion to murder.

Brin tells Ayla that she's the only reason he has stayed in the Legion, since he feels more affinity with wild beasts and feels caged.

In a restaurant, Gim moans to Tasmia and Lar about his mother's presidency, while Tasmia counsels understanding. Gim feels like a klutz, knocks over a waiter yet saves people from being scalded by hot food.

The pirate crew enjoys some recreation and mayhem on New Tartuga, while Jo watches in disgust. As he kisses Captain Frake, he sees an image of a woman (Tinya) and breaks away, to the great annoyance of Frake. Suddenly, Frake sees the Legion cruiser; Jo does not remember who the Legion is. As he and Frake take off for a fortress, she knocks a peasant woman down and kills her, angering Jo.

The Legionnaires blast the pirate ship, which sits empty on the ground, and are confronted by the angry crew. Putting their powers to good use, the Legionnaires effectively battle the pirates. Meanwhile, Jo is attacking the pirates himself and his actions are detected by Imra. This revelation brings tears to her eyes. The Legionnaires continue to mop up the pirates; Salu manages to stop Drake from blasting a room full of women, children and old men.

Frake reaches her fortress, which houses a powerful weapon, and targets the Legion cruiser. Just before Frake fires on the cruiser, Jo bursts in and intercepts the blast. The blast ricochets, causing the quintile crystal powering the weapon to explode, destroying the fortress.

A distressed Imra tells Garth that she saw Jo in her thoughts, then he suddenly wasn't there. She wonders if she really sensed him fighting the pirates. When she says, “Let's go home”, Jan questions if they can find the way after what they've done.


Comments:

Curious that on the cover, both women appeal to Jo to fulfill his team responsibilities, not to be their lover. I like that this is more than a catfight over a romance, even though we never see that scene in the story.

This story is like one of those Day in the Life tales we will occasionally get from Levitz. We get glimpses of what's going on with a number of Legionnaires: Brin's growing alienation, Gim's lack of confidence, Salu's cool head opposing Drake's trigger finger. Jo becomes increasingly repulsed by the pirates' behaviour; although he still doesn't remember who he is, he's starting to know what he is - a good guy.

Imra's happiness at detecting Jo fighting the pirates is soon undermined as he disappears from existence once again. Her doubt that she truly sensed him, as Thoth pointed out in the previous issue, could develop into a crisis of faith for her - but I don't believe it does.

The Legionnaires stopped the pirates; it doesn't appear that they killed anyone, but they did cause a lot of destruction. Jan's comment that they may not find their way home is a curious one, coming from him with his known distaste for pirates - but who better to say it? He knows what price vengeance demands.


Holy Cats of Egypt!
#925105 - 04/04/17 04:22 AM Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 17 [Re: Fat Cramer]  
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Originally Posted by Fat Cramer
Good point, I'm trying to think if there are other stories in which he vanished. Levitz had a team disappear with Orando but I don't recall if he was part of that.


I think he was (without having issues around) He went with Vi, Jan, Tinya and Cham to some Controller place where he was building a Sun Eater. They might have vanished again later on, when they had to go and fight Tyr's world, which was what the Sun Eater had been for.


Originally Posted by Fat Cramer
Hah! I guess that logo is so common (Marla could be marketing it), nobody thought to remark on it. Even the pirates - Ultra Boy shirt, Ultra Boy powers, who is this guy?


They probably thought they were dealing with Marla Latham, who Captain Frake has long had the hots for. smile


Originally Posted by Fat Cramer
As we'll see in the next issue, she doubts herself a second time. This is pretty rare for Imra, isn't it? She's sometimes unclear, but I don't know that she has thought she's imagining the mental images she picks up.


It was a thing in DnA's postboot too, where she becomes more immersed in the Tinya construct she's created.




"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
#925193 - 04/04/17 07:54 PM Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 17 [Re: thoth lad]  
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Originally Posted by thoth lad


She's a maneater. No, literally. Supplies at in short demand and they're wanted pirates... smile



Poor Jo. Caught between a maneater and a rich girl. I guess no one ever taught him to say "I can't go for that, no can do."


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#925215 - 04/05/17 10:23 AM Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 17 [Re: Fat Cramer]  
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#925224 - 04/05/17 11:15 AM Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 17 [Re: Fat Cramer]  
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#925244 - 04/05/17 04:11 PM Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 17 [Re: Fat Cramer]  
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thoth lad Offline
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LoSH #275

The Legion look to respond to the growing pirate threat from Captain Frake we saw last issue. Garth is firmly team leader and Drake is annoying team nag. It’s good to get that confirmed as Drake’s personality tends to hog proceedings. We learn that Cosmic Boy and Karate Kid are in hospital. We’ve only really just met the pirates, but Jo’s death and the injuries may have put them all on edge. Which is exactly where Imra is. Having sensed that Jo is alive last issue, she doesn’t trust her thoughts and powers. Not that this stops her dropping a little hint to her colleague, just to go all mysterious when they ask her more. It’s a shame that, after all this time, she feels she has no one to confide in.

Back on the pirate ship, we see Jo instinctively use his powers and morals to rob without killing. He’d now like to be called Seeker, although we’ve not seen him use his ultra-vision to find anything yet. Captain Frake is a little conflicted. She’s the undisputed boss, but can already see some moral issues getting in the way of her new crew member and partner.

As the Legion team leaves to capture the pirates, there’s a nice segue to another of the subplots. This involves Timberwolf becoming more of a loner and Ayla putting up with it like Doormat Damsel. It’s essentially more of the same this issue, but with a few more panels devoted to it. We get extra angst from Brin about how caged he feels. There’s a moment or two where you can see the conflict through the whining. But it’s mainly whining.

It’s nice to see Ayla actually asking him why he stays. Brin stays only for her, apparently. Or rather, only for as long as he can make her jump through the hoops of his relationship control.

The next subplot involves Colossal Boy’s moaning about his mother being president. Poor Jo’s dead, but they agree that it’s best just to carry on, so that Gim can talk about his issues. They also agree than Tinya’s on the mend. So, that’s all right then. Gim’s been getting a fair bit of attention, and he’s also the recipient of the latest self doubt sub plot. Lost in thoughts about his mom, he makes a clumsy mistake that makes him think of himself as a klutz. No words of wisdom form either Lar or Tasmia, who are there just to have people for Gim’s words to bounce off.

With our subplots acting as an interlude this issue, it’s back to the Legion hunting down the pirates. The Legionnaires were shown as dutiful following Jo’s death, and it continues here as they man their posts ahead of a military style attack on the pirates. What’s even better, is that we see they can manage to do this without Brainiac Five anywhere near the team. It’s a dangerous business being a superhero. Seeing the Legion as professionals makes a lot more sense than so many comics that have their teams run blindly into all sorts of needless danger.

The Legion launch their strike just as Seeker’s relationship with Frake falls apart. Seeing his new colleagues at play makes him realise that he’s not one of them. He’s thinking of Phantom Girl (not quickly enough to avoid Frake calling him “lover” I notice) and Frake isn’t used to being rejected. They travel through the city to launch their counter attack against the Legion. We’ve already seen one of the crew knock another out of the way, in what turns out to be a nice set up. Frake also does this to a girl, who dies after hitting her head during her fall. An incensed Jo stays by the body, and then goes on to attack the pirates himself.

We get to see each of the Legionnaires in battle. Shrinking Violet has come a way when she says that her name isn’t a reflection of her shyness. She later chides Wildfire, who is about to blast open a door. Violet uses her powers more subtly throughout to good effect.

Garth considers Dawnstar to be abrupt, but he’s no better in their exchanges. Dawny gets to show how her enhanced speed comes in handy during combat.

As the pirates fall, Frake reaches her secret weapon, a giant laser. It’s powered by a Quintile crystal in a nice nod to Legion history. As Imra picks up Jo’s presence once more, he throws himself in front of the laser blast, vanishing for the second issue in a row. Imra, who hasn’t told anyone about sensing Jo the first time, doesn’t reveal what she thought was going on this time either.

The issue returns to where we left off last issue. Jo has vanished in a burst of weapon fire, and Imra doubts if he really survived at all. Could we have jumped straight form last issue into next?

One the plus side, there’s more craft shown in building the parallel Legion, Frake and Jo scenes into the climax with the Quintile energy weapon. Both this and last issue have stood out on this.

Conway also continues with his solid character building, with Salu and Dawny getting some panel time this issue. Jo’s intrinsic grasp of what’s the right thing to do also shines through. It’s a theme that writers would build on him again, and this story lays a lot of the ground work of his later smuggling days, and what separates him from the villains. There’s more to being a Legionnaire than simply powers. All of the cast show that this issue (well, maybe not Wildjerk).

Like the main plot, the subplots don’t really go too far either, but there is some progress. Gim still moans about his mom, but there’s a suggestion that how his mom acts reflects on how he sees himself as a Legionnaire. Brin is still angsty, but there’s more of a definite hint that his, and by extension Ayla’s, time on the team could be limited. Both plots would be picked up by other writers.

While the Quintile Crystal was a nice nod to Legion continuity, the mention of Reflecto in the next issue box must have set some tongues wagging and hearts racing. His memorial statue had been seen all the way back in 1967, and many readers will have known that a new, and ill fated, Legionnaire would be making an appearance.

And that's goodnight for this issue Legion Worlders... Don't let the Talokian Night Wigglers...um....wiggle.


"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
#925245 - 04/05/17 04:40 PM Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 17 [Re: Fat Cramer]  
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thoth lad Offline
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Originally Posted by Fat Cramer
Curious that on the cover, both women appeal to Jo to fulfill his team responsibilities, not to be their lover. I like that this is more than a catfight over a romance, even though we never see that scene in the story.


Perhaps both see Jo, not just as a mate, but as a means to gain something more ?

Originally Posted by Fat Cramer
Jo becomes increasingly repulsed by the pirates' behaviour; although he still doesn't remember who he is, he's starting to know what he is - a good guy. .


Yeah, I liked the build up of this over the two issues. Even an amnesiac Legionnaire is still a Legionnaire. A nice change from mind wiped characters doing all sorts of daft, out of character things.


Originally Posted by Fat Cramer
Imra's happiness at detecting Jo fighting the pirates is soon undermined as he disappears from existence once again. Her doubt that she truly sensed him, as Thoth pointed out in the previous issue, could develop into a crisis of faith for her - but I don't believe it does. .


This really could have been a character arc for Imra and it's touched on a few times here, and in issues to come. But I don't recall it going anywhere either.


Originally Posted by Fat Cramer
The Legionnaires stopped the pirates; it doesn't appear that they killed anyone, but they did cause a lot of destruction. Jan's comment that they may not find their way home is a curious one, coming from him with his known distaste for pirates - but who better to say it? He knows what price vengeance demands..


He sure does, having pulled the trigger on Roxxas.

Jan: Home? I wonder, after this, if we can find the way...
Gartth: What do you mean?
Jan: I turned the navcomp into helium by mistake. We're stranded.





"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
#925356 - 04/07/17 07:25 AM Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 17 [Re: Fat Cramer]  
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If you don't want my peaches, ...
Well, it's been a few weeks since I've posted at all on LW, but I'm finally back and ready to start by trying to catch up on the Archive reread. It's been a difficult and frustrating few weeks at that, all on the personal side of things with work, some other personal stuff, selling / renting my old condo, my kids sports (that's been fun just time consuming) and various other things that of course relate to the root of all evil, money. But I'm here, it's been nothing I can't handle and it's time to get caught up.

I'll be brief since I'm behind. I had to read them rather than skip ahead as I'm determined to read every issue as we go through this!

LSH # 273
This issue was actually quite good! Conway at long last resolved the dangling plot of Brainy murdering someone, and uses a pretty natural resolution--a plot by Pulsar Stargrave--to do it. I liked this issue a lot because it was chalk full of character moments and because it gave us a lot of plot without dragging things out. I though Cham and Brainy came off especially well, while many others also shined. I also like the political tension with Marte Allon, Gim's dealing with it, and the continued usage of subplots, such as Brain's growing problem.

One thing I note is I'm surprised that Star Boy would be part of this group, as IMO, he probably is the Legionnaire who holds the greatest animosity towards Brainy. My personal theory is he joined this group for opposite reasons: to make sure that if the evidence proved his guilt, he'd make sure Brainy was prosecuted. However, he is a hero after all, and personal feelings aside, at the end of the day when the evidence points to Brainy's innocence, he's ready to step up and do his duty as a Legionnaire.

LSH #274
Just as we end the dangling subplot of crazy Brainy, were pushed into another subplot which will end up dragging on: dead Ultra Boy. It starts here in a bit of a quirky issue, and that's mainly because Steve Ditko's art continues to be so ill-suited for an early 1980's LSH story. I actually think this is his best LSH issue, as his mystical sensibilities work well when depicting a near death Jo traveling through cosmic space. But overall, the art distracts more than anything. (And let's not get started on mis-coloring Cos and Tyroc as statues).

The story isn't bad at all, but it's hard not to sigh when you know that it will drag out immensely. Instead I'll focus on the good: I like the initial appearance of Capt Frakes and her crew, as she is an aggressive, dominant leader who also is sexy and proud to show it. I also love the Tinya / Imra sequence here, which I've long felt is the best interaction the two characters had during the entire preboot, which is interesting because they are two of the longest serving and most iconic female Legionnaires. Beyond that, this is kind of a standard "believed dead, really has amnesia with the enemies" storyline that was a trope in fiction going back to at least the dime novel westerns, though I'd be shocked if there isn't a story in antiquity somewhere along those lines. The only difference here is it isn't resolved right away.

I should hopefully have up #275 shortly and will be all caught up. Then I'll be back to the monthly schedule.

#925389 - 04/07/17 01:50 PM Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 17 [Re: Cobalt Kid]  
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Originally Posted by Cobalt Kid
Well, it's been a few weeks since I've posted at all on LW.


Good to see you back, Mr. Kid.

Originally Posted by Cobalt Kid
I'll be brief since I'm behind. I had to read them rather than skip ahead as I'm determined to read every issue as we go through this!


Looks ahead to Reflecto saga... you brave, brave poster Cobalt Kid...



Originally Posted by Cobalt Kid
LSH # 273 One thing I note is I'm surprised that Star Boy would be part of this group, as IMO, he probably is the Legionnaire who holds the greatest animosity towards Brainy. My personal theory is he joined this group for opposite reasons: to make sure that if the evidence proved his guilt, he'd make sure Brainy was prosecuted. However, he is a hero after all, and personal feelings aside, at the end of the day when the evidence points to Brainy's innocence, he's ready to step up and do his duty as a Legionnaire.


Even in v7, Dream Girl had to remind Thom to let it go, and bury the hatchet. As you say, Thom is too much of a hero to express where he'd like to bury the hatchet, but it was a subplot pretty much right up to Thom's demise.

Originally Posted by Cobalt Kid
LSH #274 (And let's not get started on mis-coloring Cos and Tyroc as statues).


Although I noticed Cos and Tyroc beside the dedded heroes, I put it down to the room having statues of everybody (one of the many Statue rooms in the HQ), and that Cos and Tyroc's could be seen form the area where the Statues of the Dead (dum, dum... DUM) could be seen. I'd much rather that you've just uncovered a hidden Legion story. That Coz is really dead. The man who we think is Coz is really the Time Trapper. A few of the team know that the Trapper believes itself to really be Coz and have to keep it happy in case it realises and breaks loose on a temporal rampage. For anyone not convinced by this off the cuff idea, just wait a few issues and it will seem like a masterpiece. lol

Originally Posted by Cobalt Kid
I should hopefully have up #275 shortly and will be all caught up. Then I'll be back to the monthly schedule.


Yay!


"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
#925390 - 04/07/17 01:53 PM Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 17 [Re: Fat Cramer]  
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The Cos / TT theory is actually hilarious! It certainly explains why he was never elected leader again until continuity got all rearranged!

#925400 - 04/07/17 02:40 PM Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 17 [Re: Fat Cramer]  
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The big clue came in the Mayavale issue. It's no coincidence that the people looking at Cos here, were a shocked Imra and Garth who are having to keep the secret.

[Linked Image]


"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
#925402 - 04/07/17 03:22 PM Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 17 [Re: Fat Cramer]  
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LSH #275

Catching up on #275, I don't have much to add as FC and Thoth have covered the issue quite well. It's a standard plot dropped into an LSH setting, though there's some nice moments.

Like you both, I like that Jo gradually starts to know who he isn't throughout the issue as he turns away from the pirates. That is well done and says more about him.

Also, as you both mention, I like how central Imra is in this arc but also feel there's a bit of missed opportunity in the follow up.

Overall, the fact that Jo is lost / presumed dead a second time doesn't have the intended effect on me. I'm not interested and more tired by the plot development, wanting them not to drag it out. And it's with that mindset that the Reflecto saga starts...(oh boy)...

#925404 - 04/07/17 03:40 PM Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 17 [Re: Fat Cramer]  
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I'm glad you're back for it Cobie. Strength in numbers, and all that. smile


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#925416 - 04/07/17 07:05 PM Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 17 [Re: Fat Cramer]  
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^ That was the last time Cos wore contacts . . . of space.


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#925418 - 04/07/17 07:15 PM Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 17 [Re: thoth lad]  
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Originally Posted by thoth lad
[Linked Image]


E TU VIVRAI NEL TERRORE -- L'ALDILA


Read LEGIONS OF 7 WORLDS in the Bits forum:

Retroboot (Earth-7.5) Arc 1 (COMPLETED)

Retroboot (Earth-7.5) Arc 2 (WORK IN PROGRESS)

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#925607 - 04/10/17 06:08 PM Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 17 [Re: Fat Cramer]  
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Superman Family #207, Look Homeward Argonian! By Jack C. Harris & Roy Thomas, art by Win Mortimer & Vince Coletta, colours John Drake, letters John Costanza

[Linked Image]

Linda Lee Danvers returns to college in Santa Augusta aboard a commercial flight, but when she deplanes, she's in Argo City. The residents don't see her and she can't touch them. Suddenly, this disappears and she's in the terminal, greeted by her friend Val. As they head for home, Linda uses her telescopic vision and instead of seeing remains of the city, sees a domed Argo in a new orbit around a yellow sun. Baffled, she pleads fatigue, then changes to Supergirl and flies out to investigate.

She lands in Argo City and speaks to the people but finds they are still immaterial. Kam-Par explains that some of them had survived, but in this semi-real state. He says that Supergirl could rescue them with a Density Intensifier her father had invented. Just as she finds the device in her old home, Argo City disappears and she hears laughter.

She finds the real Argo City in its red sun orbit, views it from afar and sees Universo with the Density-Intensifier. She follows him to the 30th century.

The Legionnaires detect a disturbance in the timestream; Brainy is summoned and declares that two people have broken through the time barrier and landed in front of the HQ. As they rush out, the Legionnaires see Universo attacking Supergirl with the device and delivering some corny lines. To Universo's surprise, she is unharmed; she destroys the device telling him it's really just a table lamp and slugs him.

She tells the Legionnaires that she was never fooled by the image of Argo, just played along to trap Universo; she knew that the Argonians could never have known about the Intensifier, which her father kept as a family secret.

Brainy begs Supergirl to stay a while; she refuses. She also refuses to tell them where her father's weapon was hidden, then departs with sorrowful thoughts of her parents and home.

Comments:
Legion editor Jack C. Harris turns his hand to plotting this Supergirl story and throw in a token appearance by the Legion. Too little Legion for my taste, but it's a short story.

The Supergirl history is sort of foggy for me, but a first time reader could follow the tale thanks to the explanations of Krypton's and Universo's histories. The explanations do drag this simple story out, however.

They mystery of the intangible Argonians isn't much of a mystery since Universo was on the cover. Someone not familiar with the Legion might not have suspected.

There's a discussion of our technology and Colu elsewhere on this forum, so it particularly struck me how odd it seems for an advanced civilization to have table lamps. Ugly table lamps. Argonians are too advanced to concern themselves with such trivial matters as home makeovers, no doubt. (Was there ever a story tying the Argonians to the Argonauts? That seems like a natural for the Silver Age.)

Why did Cham have to fetch Brainiac 5 – and why change into some sort of dog to find him? All communications devices down?

Brainy didn't add much to the conversation; he only deduced that two people had landed outside the HQ from the timestream. They could have opened the front door and learned that. I don't recall what the status of the timestream was at this point: were people from the past blocked? There was an iron curtain of time, but I think that was for traveling into the future.

Supergirl gives Brainiac 5 the brush-off, which is sort of disappointing for those of us who enjoyed this time-doomed relationship.

Wow! Does Supergirl not trust the Legion? Could they just be figments of Universo's power as well? There could have been a Part 2 to this tale in which Supergirl unmasks a second layer of Universo's deception.


Holy Cats of Egypt!
#925663 - 04/11/17 04:21 PM Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 17 [Re: Fat Cramer]  
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Superman Family 207

Supergirl is flying back from a student councillors meeting somewhere, back in the days when being a student councillor was a jet setting, glamorous life.

Back in the old Action Comics Supergirl’s thought bubbles were always full of smug “If only they knew” comments. “If only they knew I had a green future boyfriend and a merboy-friend” or “If only they knew my secrets” after Lois Lane points out Linda Lee’s similarity to Supergirl. So, credit to the writer as she’s not changed a jot, thinking “of course I could have flown there and back in a fraction of the time, as Supergirl…”

She gives a really good excuse for not having done so, as it’s the everyday things like unused tickets that can trip up a global super heroine. She completely blows her secret identity by having a breakdown on the aircraft’s steps feeling that she’s now in “Argo—The Kryptonian city where I was born.” If it’s an illusion, everyone will now know her secret.

Whoops! An illusion is exactly what it turns out to be, as she passes through fellow travellers. Fortunately, everyone wjo is real just thinks she’s either drunk or stoned. Normal for air passengers. Her friend kindly puts it down to jetlag, but Supergirl has been in too many stories not to know that something is wrong. She uses her telescopic vision to see all the way to Krypton. Her destroyed home world is luckily in view from the taxi window. The super character’s powers were always difficult to control, but this goes quite a bit too far. Argo isn’t where it used to be, but that’s OK, super vision soon picks it up around another sun.

I wonder if, in her days as a student councillor, Supergirl considers helping out astronomy a bit.

Supergirl has often struggled to find her place in the world. It’s been tough for her. Form the orphanage to hiding away as Superman’s secret weapon. But it’s not helped by ignoring your friends at the first sign of super deed. Poor Valerie has gone to all the trouble to pick up her friend form the airport, and gets the brush off.

A pompous caption declares “..and she must learn, this day, if you can go home again.” Well, of course she can. She’s just seen it, and is now flying at beyond light speed through space to get to it. Even handier, it’s now under a yellow sun, meaning that Supergirl can keep her powers.

When she gets there, Supergirl is confused at the sight of people she thought long dead, in a city she though long destroyed. She discovers that the residents, like the people back at the airport, are immaterial. But they have a solution, and you should take a deep breath if you want to read it out loud.

Like all the superbaby stories, Supergirl was involved in lots of the Plot-Friendly activities that everyone on Krypton managed to cram in around the time the planet exploded. If the Kryptonians had spent less time setting up Super Family stories and more time saving their planet, and its cast off cities, they would have been fine.

Here, Supergirl’s dad was working on a device to project all of Argo city’s residents into the Survival Zone. The ray seems to have worked, in that Supergirl saved her parents. But the other residents were left in a sort of ghostly state. Fortunately, Supergir;s dad was well versed in Pointless Plot Twists. While he was working on the device, he was also working on a device to increase the mass of things and people. Just in case his daughter lost her superpowers on Earth.

Now, Supergirl’s dad presumably had a tea break in between all this inventing. That’s when he must have come up with the idea of disguising the mass increasing device as a table lamp. Why he would do this when it was to go with his daughter to Earth. Is there another rocket, full of furniture from Krypton out there somewhere, destined to come to Earth and gain superpowers?

We’ll never know, as the whole thing turned out to be another illusion. Supergirl spies the real Argo city, back under its red sun.

We don’t have to wait long to find out who’s behind the illusions. It’s Legion nemesis (and rejected member) Universo! His Super-hypnosis has enabled him to cast illusions all the way from Krypton to Earth. He’s created a completely illusory city and sun, exact in every detail from an earlier time. He then waits for Supergirl to explore it to find the device he really needs. Then he searches in the ruins of the real Argo City until he finds it.

Whew! I’m glad he didn’t go for something complicated. Like just going back in time to watch Supergirl’s father invent the thing in the first place.

Universo uses time travel technology (probably pinched from his kid) to return to the 30th century and get vengeance on the Legion. Supergirl follows. For all the super-super powers we’ve already seen, it should be remembered that Supergirl can also travel through time too. So she doesn’t have to follow Universo in the way shown.

Universo’s method of travel sets off all sorts of alarms. A group of otehrwsie incidental Legionnaires respond. Rather than using telepathic earplugs or HQ comms, we get to see Cham racing down a corridor to fetch Brainy as a small metallic dog. Which is quite cute.

Universo is about to blast the weapon at our heroes, only to find Supergirl in his way. She easily defeats him after the weapon has no effect on her. Apparently Supergirl had only been playing along with Universo’s plan and hadn’t been fooled for a minute. She certainly goes to some lengths to show she had fallen for it. All of her dialogue to herself also thought that the weapon had been captured.

That was the first time I’d read this story. It’s complete filler and the plot (by Jack Harris) doesn’t stand up to any sort of scrutiny. The set ups are ridiculously overly elaborate for a nice, but standard, pay off at the end. Roy Thomas’ script has a few touches, but can’t escape the story. At least the Mortimer/Colletta art was a nice treat. Things like the Legion reread makes me appreciate the artists of this period, more than I had earlier.


"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
#925798 - 04/14/17 04:45 AM Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 17 [Re: Fat Cramer]  
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I know I am a bit late to this conversation but thought I would join in and try to catch up.

RE Secrets of the Legion of Super-Heroes

I was a bit surprised when I read this. My memory from years ago was of three issues of nothing but recaps, so the plots inserted into each issue (thin though they may have been) were a welcome surprise. On the other hand I guess there is a reason that I had forgotten they were there at all.

I actually enjoyed seeing Marla give Drake a bit of his own medicine. This was one of the few cases where I thought the artwork perfectly mirrored the writer. The look on Drake's "face" (well his body language anyway) shows how stunned he is at being spoken back to like that and the following panel with him walking off waving off Marla is spot on.

My biggest thought from the rereading? How ironic it is that some members were rejected as being possible offspring because they were born in the 20th Century, considering the later Giffen-led retcon that Brande actually came from that century.

#925799 - 04/14/17 04:56 AM Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 17 [Re: Fat Cramer]  
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One more thought I almost forgot to mention: It would seem the artist (or the writer) was a bit confused over Star Boy's expulsion when instead of drawing the actual ray gun shooting which Thom did in self-defense, the comic portrayed the possible alternative action from Brainy's prosecution which would have left the attacker alive. As mentioned this probably reflects badly on the editor as well who should have caught it.

Other than this one item, I wasn't so bothered about the differences in retelling of the origins and tales. Get any two people to independently describe an event they were both witness to and you will get two similar but different stories. Obviously from a real world perspective it shows the different desires of different writers (or possibly poor research but let's be nice). However from a Legion perspective it is till ok as all the "true' origins and events are told by the characters and different ones among them could be remembering it differently.

#925800 - 04/14/17 05:05 AM Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 17 [Re: Fat Cramer]  
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RE #273 A Murderer - Among Us?

The comments made above summarise it pretty well. It seems to be a well meaning attempt to clear up not just a dangling plot line but a stain on one of the characters. However it does not stand up to very close scrutiny. besides all the items already mentioned, I always wondered why Stargrave simply didn't try to melt or even just grab Brainy's force field belt if he truly believed they were stuck inside together. I guess though that you could wave that away with Brainy's statement of Stargrave's emotional ranting and unstable state leading to his downfall.

Not much else to say except that I stifled a sigh when Jo "disappeared". I suddenly remembered what storyline this was leading to and how disappointed I was when I first read it. Oh well maybe rereading I will find some gems I missed last time.

#925828 - 04/14/17 12:32 PM Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 17 [Re: Fat Cramer]  
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Originally Posted by Cramer
There's a discussion of our technology and Colu elsewhere on this forum, so it particularly struck me how odd it seems for an advanced civilization to have table lamps. Ugly table lamps.


A lot of worlds, like our club & societies here, pretend to have hidden depths or secrets to make them more appealing./mysterious. In Colu's case, all that intellectual/ technological mastery hides the sad truth that they have no concept of interior design. They're too embarrassed to invite the neighbours round. Which is a shame as Mr and Mrs Rimbor are really nice people.


Originally Posted by Cramer
Why did Cham have to fetch Brainiac 5 – and why change into some sort of dog to find him? All communications devices down?


I vote for a "Pointless Powers Use" thread!


Originally Posted by Cramer
Brainy didn't add much to the conversation; he only deduced that two people had landed outside the HQ from the time stream. They could have opened the front door and learned that.


I vote for a "Space Science made me Lazy" thread!


Originally Posted by Cramer
I don't recall what the status of the timestream was at this point: were people from the past blocked? There was an iron curtain of time, but I think that was for traveling into the future.


The Superkids could come and go as they pleased to Legion HQ at this point, I believe.


Originally Posted by Cramer
Supergirl gives Brainiac 5 the brush-off, which is sort of disappointing for those of us who enjoyed this time-doomed relationship.

Well, that student councillor jet set lifestyle must have been appealing. Perhaps she felt that Briany and her Merboy boyfriend were just a bit too clingy, as she looked to get a bit of space for herself.

Originally Posted by Cramer
Wow! Does Supergirl not trust the Legion? Could they just be figments of Universo's power as well? There could have been a Part 2 to this tale in which Supergirl unmasks a second layer of Universo's deception.


Sadly, the Legion could have invaded her mind at any time as they did regularly to Superboy. Perhaps they're surprised that Kara would keep anything from them. But probably they 're just surprised that there's a glitch in their mind wiping equipment. smile


"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
#925830 - 04/14/17 01:28 PM Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 17 [Re: Fat Cramer]  
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Originally Posted by stile86
I know I am a bit late to this conversation but thought I would join in and try to catch up.


Always good to have more views on the reread thread!


Originally Posted by stile86
I actually enjoyed seeing Marla give Drake a bit of his own medicine. This was one of the few cases where I thought the artwork perfectly mirrored the writer. The look on Drake's "face" (well his body language anyway) shows how stunned he is at being spoken back to like that and the following panel with him walking off waving off Marla is spot on.


That reminds me of a later issue where Drake is called on his conflicting approach regarding the Academy. He goes off in a huff there too.


Originally Posted by stile86
My biggest thought from the rereading? How ironic it is that some members were rejected as being possible offspring because they were born in the 20th Century, considering the later Giffen-led retcon that Brande actually came from that century.


There was the sequel called "Secrets of the Legion so Secret They've Been Kept Secret!" After readers complained about 26 pages containing only CLASSIFIED stamps, DC released a further series, "Hidden Mysterious Legends of the Legion!"

Who was RJ Brande's *real* kid? It turns out that Reep's Durlan blood morphs into the blood of another race, enabling it to save Brande's life. But Reep's not his kid!

Will Tenzil Kem and his glamorous assistant, Brek Bannin, be able to reveal the true Brande lineage before Lester Spiffany obtains control of Brande Industries?!

Rumours of Phantoms from the 20th century lead the team to find out more about their L.E.G.I.O.N. predecessors. But it turns out it was Phantom Girl herself as Phase. There’s a suggestion that Tinya did some time travelling of her own and could have helped in the colonisation of her world in the first place.

Could it have been Mon-El? There are rumours that the isolationist Daxamites and the Durlans were involved in a unified Invasion! force. Did Brande meet Lar’s mother/father? It turns out that, confusing history aside, Lar was already well in the Zone before Brande left Durla. This similarly rules out Brande being a relative of Kal or Kara.

In their travels, our heroes uncover a species of technologically enhanced Lycanthropes that went with humanity as they colonised the galaxy. It turns out Brin was a bit of a dog (smile) during his miniseries in the 20th century.

They also find out that Iris Jacobs still has no luck with men, following on from her appearances in the Karate Kid series form the 1970s. She did successfully sue Marvel for stealing her gimmick and giving it to Emma Frost though.

It turns out that the lineage is more direct that they thought. Visitors from Tharr helped out Superman in an old story. They turned out to be Polar Boy’s parents. One of the parents quite liked the use of the Time Bubbles, and had further adventures where they met a certain exiled Durlan. Brek Banin is their child.


Originally Posted by stile86
One more thought I almost forgot to mention: It would seem the artist (or the writer) was a bit confused over Star Boy's expulsion when instead of drawing the actual ray gun shooting which Thom did in self-defense, the comic portrayed the possible alternative action from Brainy's prosecution which would have left the attacker alive. As mentioned this probably reflects badly on the editor as well who should have caught it.


Looks like an error, although there's speculation that the tree was actually either Chameleon Boy or Swamp Thing looking to *frame* Star Boy for the killing, if he had chosen that alternative approach smile Perhaps they didn't want to show a Legionnaire shooting someone? There's also the possibility that the characters didn't want to mention shooting someone in cold blood with Brainy around somewhere. smile


Originally Posted by stile86
Other than this one item, I wasn't so bothered about the differences in retelling of the origins and tales. Get any two people to independently describe an event they were both witness to and you will get two similar but different stories. Obviously from a real world perspective it shows the different desires of different writers (or possibly poor research but let's be nice). However from a Legion perspective it is till ok as all the "true' origins and events are told by the characters and different ones among them could be remembering it differently.


I like this approach, as I like Levitz’s chronicler’s interpretation as a way of not getting too hung up on the details (except for the sheer fun of it)

Originally Posted by stile86
I always wondered why Stargrave simply didn't try to melt or even just grab Brainy's force field belt if he truly believed they were stuck inside together. I guess though that you could wave that away with Brainy's statement of Stargrave's emotional ranting and unstable state leading to his downfall.


Yeah, Stargrave was in full Maniacal Megavillain mode, rather than taking a more subtle approach. The Coluans must have been really embarrassed that Stargrave turned out to be the chief export villain form their world. He wasn’t the brightest. I here, they’re not keen on Questor either. smile

Originally Posted by stile86
Not much else to say except that I stifled a sigh when Jo "disappeared". I suddenly remembered what storyline this was leading to and how disappointed I was when I first read it. Oh well maybe rereading I will find
some gems I missed last time.


Yes, come with us to reread the hidden gems in the Reflecto Saga. Please. >sob< Don’t leave us in there! >choke< smile


"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
#925877 - 04/14/17 08:36 PM Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 17 [Re: Fat Cramer]  
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I've always maintained that if Star Boy had, in fact, made the tree limb super-heavy, it might have broken Nuhor's neck and killed him anyway. Of course, there is a slim chance that he might have lived. The Legion Code says nothing about rendering anyone a quadriplegic.


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