Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Knowing me, knowing Lu -- it's nice to be nice

I'm ready to admit it -- I have often been mean, sometimes downright awful, in my 11-plus years of posting at Legion World. Arrogant, icy, disdainful, and possessing THE superiority complex to end them all.

No more.

And it's thanks to Preboot Luornu Durgo:



Because while Ayla will always be the Legionnaire who, deep down, most accurately personifies me, and my aspirational, megalomaniacal streak often makes me come across as Tasmia at her very worst, it's now Luornu whom I most aspire to be like -- the apple-pie-sweetheart-next-door who gets over BOTH her complicated and contradictory personality AND her crush on an unattainable, idealized demi-god, and finds true love with a kind-hearted, uncomplicated, all-around-decent, salt-of-the-earth partner.

I suppose that, now that I've been over 40 for a while now, and now that I've been through some significant upheavals in my personal life, my aspirations are more modest than they used to be.

And I think that term, "modest," sums up my perceptions of Luornu in a nutshell: Modest. Humble. Self-aware. Okay with being imperfect. Complicated, yet open about it. Empathetic. Giving. Unpretentious. Smart, but not stuck up. Down-to-earth. Nice.

Not a bad goal at all, if I do say so myself.

(And, yes, I know that her behavior after Superboy's death pretty much makes mincemeat out of everything I've described above, which is why I dislike her Death-of-Superboy-through-Conspiracy personality more than ever. Which is a long-winded way of saying, if you want to talk about those subjects, please do it in other threads, thank you.)

I can't say I've ever had any particularly strong feelings toward Luornu, primarily because she had largely been overshadowed by other characters by the prime Levitz years that I find myself revisiting the most. However, I do like your analysis of her character, Fanfie. Sometimes having a team member who just wants to have a normal, albeit modest life can be interesting when contrasted with characters with loftier motivations. It's why preboot Star Boy has really come around as one of my favorite Legionnaires lately!

I like her a lot. I think it says a lot about her calm personality that Johns decided to give her a power upgrade during his run. She adds balance to a team that has a lot of type-A personalities (of both genders).

Thanks, Kappa, much appreciated.

And, funnily enough, I've been researching Preboot Thom's extensive backstory lately. I find it fascinating how a bit of continuity blundering -- first he has Superboy-type powers, then he doesn't -- could, in addition to his taking a life in self-defense, be used as the catalysts to the kind of cosmic epic that Jim Starlin did in his prime when he was at Marvel (I'm particularly fond of his first one, the one with Mar-Vell as the protagonist.) The way I see it, still waters run deep in Star Boy, and it could go any number of ways, including the desire for a regular life which you already noted. But I think there's also the potential for Thom to end up more like Warlock/The Magus, realizing his potential only to have it corrupt him. And that's something that's part of the Legion of Anti-Heroes concept that I've been planning long-term for one of my 7 Earths.

I fully agree, Emily. And I also found it especially nice that Levitz ended his run on the Retroboot with Luornu in a good place -- still with Chuck, and doing a nice job of handling the responsibility of keeping Brainy in check as the caretaker of his darkest secret.

Now I keep having an ABBA song go through my head.

(Sung after the encounter with Computo)

Knowing me, knowing Lu
Ah-ha
We just have to face it this time:
We're two.

He Who, LOL

The song-title pun was wholly intentional. I do love ABBA.

(The version of that song in phonetic Spanish, "Conociendome, Conociendote," from the "ABBA Oro" compilation, has a better mix than the original, IMO.)

I know maybe ten words in Spanish, but I googled the song and watched the video:



It's rather odd to watch ABBA singing in Spanish. I wonder if they actually knew the lyrics. They put on a convincing performance.

It's also very interesting to listen to the sad melody without being distracted by the meaning of the words.

I thought that the opening was going to be

" I'm ready to admit it -- I have often been mean, sometimes downright awful, in my 11-plus years of posting at Legion World. Arrogant, icy, disdainful, and possessing THE superiority complex to end them all. No more. And it's thanks to Preboot Luornu Durgo:"

"Now I'm three times all that, due to the Carggian science I have unlocked!"


Lu had long since left the team in the first issues I read of the Legion, and was running the academy with Chuck. So, my introduction to her earlier adventures came alongside all the later issues that are out of the scope of the thread.

I see her and Chuck as being amongst the most mature members of the team. While Jo & Tinya have that smothering high school crush, Lu & Chuck have made mature relationship choices. Lu in realising that what she really needed wasn't her ideal. Chuck by pretending not to have his powers back, in order to prevent any disruption to his relationship with Lu.

I think that had Superboy actually noticed Lu, she would have eventually realised that the relationship wasn't a particularly fulfilling one. Never mind all the time travel, and historical record stuff. Chuck's decision must have influenced the movie Unbreakable. Both decisions show people with self awareness, and with the ability to plan their lives. In a comics universe designed for things to return to a status quo, they really stand out.

The decisions reaffirm their key character traits. We see that Chuck is a teacher, a morale booster, an organiser and has tactical skills. In Lu, we see that her standards will influence every generation of student to come, in both application of skills and in acceptable personality traits to the organisation. The Atmos audition being just one example.

Wonderful analysis of the post-Legion Lu and Chuck, thoth. I never thought of their relationship as being ahead of its time in comics, but you're right: It was.

I came into the Legion just as Lu was leaving. She's in the Adventure reprints I read but doesn't do much except send people on missions and comment on the proceedings. The reprint to Adventure 341 deals with her transformation into Duo Damsel. The opening scenes of that comic are very moving, as the Legionnaires, believing Lu has died, build a rocket monument to her, sign it, and send it off to Shanghalla. But once Lu appears for real in the story, she fades into the background. There's no fallout from the loss of her third self, or really much of anything else of her in the story.

Then came Superboy 200, the wedding issue. Again, Lu "loses" one of her selves but is told by Brainiac 5 to simply get over it because she has more important things to do: focus on her wedding. After the wedding is interrupted by Starfinger, Lu becomes a MacGuffin, an object, and not an active player in the story.

This isn't to say I had a negative impression of Lu. She and Chuck were part of the family, and like any part of the family, I hated to see them go--even if they seemed to spend most of their time in the corner talking to each other and not really participating in the main events. They were like that aunt and uncle you saw on occasion when you were a child. You know they had something to do with the family because other family members referred to them or said hi to them, but you have no personal knowledge of them, no memories of toys they brought you or trips they took you on. Still, you were delighted whenever they visited.

Later writers did much more with Lu, and that includes Bridwell in Secrets of the LSH # 1. In re-reading the Lucifer Seven scene, I was surprised to see Lu play a major role in the villain's capture. But of course she's overshadowed by Tinya's Phantom Zone plan. A few years ago, I read an article about introverts serving as leaders. A quote from one CEO stood out: "You can get a lot done if you don't care who gets the credit." That seems to apply to Lu.

Lots of Legion characters thrive when making the best of the powers and skills they've been given, no matter how limited they initially may seem. So, I'm not sure if they were moved away from the team because the writers didn't think they were powerful enough. The Chuck &Lu back ups were popular enough, as were their guest appearances. Lu was peripheral in Computo aftermath and the wedding story, where she should have been central.

Whatever the reason, they were able to make mature decisions in their actions. So, while the rest of the team went through the angst of their relationships, Lu & Chuck had moved on.

Even when the Legion matured in later versions, Lu & Chuck were still well ahead of the curve. Instead of running just a Legion Academy, they were then training and leading super powered recruits and militias for organisations across the United Planets.

Perhaps, as the readership also aged, the already popular Chuck and Lu became all the cooler as readers faced their own life choices and responsibilities too.

Agreed for the most part, He Who, although as far as Lu's Adventure era appearances go, her private thoughts on how she perceives Tasmia as being a man-eater, and about her crush on Superboy, are, in hindsight, some of my favorite moments from the Shooter/Swan Mordru story.



Very well said. I've read some fascinating Legionnaire character sketches in other threads, including one Cobie started where he and other posters came to the conclusion that Lu & Tinya probably started out as close friends, but Tasmia brought out another, meaner & more narcissistic side to Tinya which drove her and Lu apart.

My own 2p about Tinya -- of all the female Legionnaires introduced during the Silver Age, she's the one I've always found least well-defined, at least the Preboot version, who I thought was a total girly-girl (a pigtail phase at 18? Hey, if that made her happy, I'm ok with it, but still...), with a soft spot for middle-class posers pretending to be tough, and happy to play sidekick and yes-woman to her more openly haughty best friend. Postboot Tinya, OTOH, I loved at first, as I did Postboot Jo (who, this go-round, really was the street-kid that he said he was, and wasn't the brightest bulb, but had a heart of gold.) Then DnA turned them both into OTT possessive whiners. Ah, well, nothing lasts forever.

ROTFLMAO

No, I'm actually three times sweeter now.



Love these insights, Thoth. Yeah, I mean, now that I'm getting closer to being "of a certain age", I find I've grown tired of playing either the diva (Tasmia) and the subversive hyper-femme (Nura.)

I'll always be a bit of a hellion at heart, though. Electric Youth turned Electric Midlife.

(I considered posting the promo video for Debbie Gibson's "Electric Youth," but then I remembered that even Debbie (now Deborah) herself cringes when she even thinks about it.)

On the Adventure-era, Lu: I agree that she is better represented in some stories, though I didn't get to read those stories until much later. I loved her depiction in the Mordru story. Whether or not Tasmia really was a maneater, it is clear that Lu was deeply hurt and venting her feelings in a way that seemed wholly understandable.

I don't disagree with the thoughts on Tinya and Tasmia, though I've never seen much evidence that Lu and Tinya were friends. I agree that Tinya was always ill-defined as a character. Somewhere along the line, she became identified as a stalwart Legionnaire--the one who served the longest. Her death in 5YL, if it was indeed a death, was cited as one of the reasons for the Legion's break-up, as if she had become the heart and soul of the team.

That and the Ayla avatar means I'm going to need insulin injections just to log in




Well, being a little older doesn't mean holding back. in the last issues where we saw Lu, she was defending the Earth and Legion HQ from the Fatal Five and putting Brainy firmly in his place. With her history going right back to the start of the team, she knows all of the others, and their foibles, really well. And that down to earth approach she has, can make everyone else better.



In v3 #51 Salu is in Tinya's quarters with Jacques. They're watching Brainy's trial that follows um... certain events.... Anyway, Salu says "If you didn't want company watching the trial, why invite is in, P.G?
I don't know about Jacques, but you and I ere never real buddie -- not even back when we were kids. You and Duo Damsel were the close ones."

Ah, Vi, rubbing up people the wrong way while trying too hard to be assertive. But it's a great panel that opens up some Legion relationship history. As Fanfie mentioned, it comes up as part of Cobie's thread.

Also interestingly, P.G. replies "That's one reason I have a hard time forgiving Brainy, Vi." Another great panel that shows that the wounds of Computo's creation aren't as easily healed as things may have been presented at the time.

Tinya then goes on to start an Legion espionage squad mission. I don't know if she was considered as the heart and soul of the team during the 5YG. Possibly, but she was just one of a number of outgoing Legionnaires. Querl, Imra and Cham had left, and Jo left after she was presumed to have died.

Thanks for pointing out the #51 scene, thoth. I had forgotten about it, if it ever stood out to me in the first place.

This is an example, I think, of Levitz retconning things to suit his purposes--no big shame; Bridwell and other writers did it, too. But I can't think of any Lu and Tinya scenes before this.

Building off of Fanfie's theory that Shady came along and brought out a darker side of Tinya, perhaps Lu and Tinya simply grew apart. Tinya became involved with Jo and joined the Espionage Squad, so she probably kept busy and got tired of Lu endlessly pining over Superboy. (If Tinya can have a darker side, why can't Lu?) Another possibility is that they had little in common once the team started to expand. Tinya not only supported Jo when everyone thought he was a criminal, but she was close friends with Lyle because of the nature of their powers. Perhaps Tinya made friends more easily than Lu did.

One thing that stands out abut the scene you quoted, though, is Vi's reaction. Whatever the real relationship between Lu and Tinya, there was a perceived friendship--and Vi's implication of feeling left out is all too real for a then teenager.

Ahhh, Lu

I have to admit, my first exposure to Lu was in the Legion after she was a reservist ... I ended up intrigued by her duo costume in LSH #266-267 and she became one of those Legionnaires that I obsessed following... searching back issue bins for her appearances ... Secrets of the Legion confirmed that
She was competent, colorful and unique. She found ways to use her power that were inventive

My appreciation for her grew when she became an Academy instructor - the firm attitude and leadership were awesome

The Time Trapper Conspiracy was a low point for the Legion (IMO) and Lu was similarly UGH in that

When Levitz brought her back as a powerhouse, I welcomed it

Fanfic, you are already a powerhouse

Awwww...thanks, Andy, that's so very kind of you.

Thoth, FWIW, I'm neither sugary-sweet nor saccharine-sweet, I'm...uh...Truvia-sweet.

(Seriously, I love Truvia, and I use it a lot. And if there's been any news reports that it's just as bad as saccharine or whatever, don't anyone bother posting them. I'll just blissfully ignore them.)

I had to google it. and oh dear, what a crock of corporate fibbing unicorns and cute piglets in sunhats, and kittens! You can be stevia-sweet!

LOL

I'd forgotten about Stevia.

I'll probably try it sometime, just for comparison.

Of course, Lu probably has one body which prefers Truvia, and one body which prefers Stevia.