Legion World Forums LEGION COMPANION The Anywhere Machine Joss Whedon Controversy

As many of you have probably seen, Joss Whedon has been in considerable controversy this week, as his ex-wife Kai Cole has penned an article saying that he not only cheated on her with multiple women for years, but that he used her to protect his feminist credentials, and years of manipulation and lies left her paranoid and anxious, leaving her with a diagnosis of Complex PTSD.

http://www.thewrap.com/joss-whedon-feminist-hypocrite-infidelity-affairs-ex-wife-kai-cole-says/amp/

For the record, I believe her, and think Joss Whedon deserves all the heat he's getting right now.

There's been a lot written about it, and if you haven't already, you can find as much or as little on it as you care to read. A few of the more interesting/important points I've come across:

In a letter, he described himself giving in to the "beautiful, needy and aggressive young women" he was surrounded with at work. Aside from how skin crawling that is on the surface, the deeper problem is that means he's a television and film producer sleeping with his "needy" young stars. So it's not merely a case of infidelity, or a self-proclaimed feminist not practicing what he preaches, but of a considerabll entertainment heavyweight having repeated relationships in the workplace in a power dynamic that is, at the very least, uncomfortable.

Whedon's camp responded, saying that her statement was full of unspecified inaccuracies, but that he wouldn't comment for the sake of his children and respect for his ex-wife. Which is, of course, a comment followed by a disingenuous "no comment."

The popular fan site Whedonesque closed after 15 years. Not explicitly in response, but they suggested people who have enjoyed the site donate to causes supporting Complex PTSD. The site manager later tweeted: 'Trust the art, not the artist,' is a thing I stopped saying when I copped on it was probably an artist who coined the phrase.

While of course there have been the usual defenders/excusers, the overwhelming fandom response seems to be supporting Ms. Cole. Whatever happens to Whedon and his fandom from this point on, I think the fans should pride ourselves on having the willingness to put the ideals before the messenger. Far too many other fandoms act desplaying none of the ethics or ideals of the work they claim is so important to them.

I have yet to see a single woman he worked with come to his defense. Even Bill Cosby managed that. This makes me suspect these issues were an open secret on set, and that most of his cast and crew were already thinking what is now being said.

There have been people criticizing Joss Whedon for years, and they have largely been marginalized even in the liberal circles of Buffy et al fandom. Someone claims that Firefly, a show that supposedly has a strong influence of Chinese culture, had only a single speaking asian role in the entire work. I don't know if that's exaggeration, but it's certainly whitewashing to a far greater extent than many things that have taken heat in recent years.

It's possible to like a work and dislike the artist. It's not necessary to weigh the good and the bad on some cosmic scale and decide which is heavier. If it colors your view of his work that's understandable, but if you still like the work itself, you can continue to enjoy it without having to explain yourself, and definitely without having to defend its creator's personal life.

In the end, I doubt this will do much to Joss Whedon's career. But I think (hope) it will affect his relationship with fandom forever, and I think that and being perceived as a feminist champion were important to him, and that's not nothing. And hopefully the public shaming will cause him to correct his professional work. But we shall see.

I try to put no person on a pedestal, even a man like this whose work I have enjoyed. Buffy, Angel, Firefly, the Avengers---I hold all of these in high regard.

All of what his ex-wife says makes sense with what I've noted of him. There's always been something about him...a smugness, a hint of condescension, other stuff along those lines. I'm a grown man, and I've learned not to idolize anyone. There are a few famous people I'd dearly love to meet but none I'd put above my own family.

I feel for his wife. I detest those who take the vow, can't be faithful and still deceive the one they're committed to. It's a senseless, cruel and self-serving form of abuse.

I'm sure I can still enjoy the things of his I love and may very well enjoy some of his future endeavors. But I have no interest in seeing his interviews or hearing his commentary. If all this is true, he's a disgusting fraud.

But not a single thing he's made was made by him alone. He may have had a really great deal of creative control over them, but there were many other talented people in front of and behind the camera who made those projects what they were. He couldn't have done any of it without them.

I liked Firefly. Thought his other stuff was a bit overblown.

He's not much of a man though. He gave his word and broke it. To the one person you should never break your word, your spouse. And he did it repeatedly.

And then blamed the women for it.

What a disgusting dick and hypocrite of the 1st magnitude.

I’ve never seen Whedon as much of a feminist.

His female characters tend to be physically strong, but emotionally weak, with broken moral compasses.

(My daughter hated the words he put in Black Widow’s mouth, until I pointed out that Natasha always lies.)

On the other hand, he is a pretty good writer, and can be enjoyable, coming up with some semi-original mash-ups, and has a real talent for balancing comic book action with comic banter.

Albert Einstein was also a serial adulterer, but that doesn’t mean The General Theory of Relativity isn’t a fun read.

LOL. I try to lurk for awhile and this happens.

I always thought the guy was overrated, so I'll take a little schadenfreude for myself and run with it.

Every other feminist I've known in the last 20 years thought the guy walked on water and holy crap did that get irksome after a while.

As I said in the old thread about overrated stuff, I trace the ultimate demise of one long-running friendship to the fact that said friend couldn't shut her damn trap about his damn show!

Pppphhhttt!!

Klar, I don't recall Einstein hiding his adultery by claiming to be a champion for women, though. Whedon didn't cheat with equals, he cheated with those that were "under his thumb" due to his position, as it were. And then, according to his ex, actually blamed them.

That's some weak shit right there.

Yeah, Rick. I'm not saying Whedon is a good person, or that he should get to direct the next Justice League movie. (If there is a next Justice League movie)

I am saying that I was never really impressed with his supposed feminist cred.

On the other hand:

1) Cheating on your wife with your first cousin is kind of creepy.
2) In some quarters, it is considered unethical to take your private secretary (whose salary you are paying) and/or your students as mistresses.
3) Speaking of a female physicist, Einstein quoted Voltaire, who said, “A brave man, whose only fault was being a woman.” So there’s that.
4) On Morality: “We have to do the best we can. This is our sacred human responsibility.” – so I guess that less than a dozen mistresses over his lifetime was the best he could do. And pretty responsible.

He is just another in a long, long line of men who worm their way into a feminist / woman's movement, claiming to be a true believer but ultimately using it for the major reason of being a Lothario. There are many examples like that historically in politics or celebrity-ville, and far more on a regular, personal, down to Earth basis. I know I've met my fair share of these types: a higher number back in college, but a more deceptive, creepier kind as I've gotten older.

I've never cared for Whedon personally and I've only enjoyed the smallest bit of his stuff. I've known plenty of people who have cheated or been cheated on, and its always tragic and discouraging. At the end of the day, just because someone cheats doesn't mean I won't stop buying their products, reading their work, admiring their intellect, hiring them as a plumber, etc. All that aside, what I really hate though are those who proudly proclaim themselves to be one thing--such as a male feminist--which gets them oohs and aahs from all corners, when they are really selfishly using that image to build up a stable of admirers and sleep around.

And while I'm sure this isn't just a major problem for left wing / liberals, since I am one I can't help but be disheartened by the never-ending string of womanizers, cheaters and liars at the forefront of every liberal movement. When I hear of a man, who proudly broadcasts himself to be a leading feminist, I can't help but be skeptical. And I can only imagine how a woman feels about it.

^ And honestly, this gets at a finer point for movies, comics, and entertainment in general: if a major studio really believed in the ideal of equality, they wouldn't hire a male director to showcase an iconic female protagonist, they'd hire a female one. So kudos to the folks who made Wonder Woman for doing exactly that. (FYI, the criticism by James Cameron was eye-rolling to the extreme.)

Do we really need Joss Whedon's misguided "feminist" anything in 2017? Probably not. Instead, the better option is to have Patty Jenkins or other female voices writing, directing, producing, starring, etc. and letting them tell their own stories. So rather than a 'feminist twist' on something, we can actually just have women succeeding and telling their own stories in their own way, which is a whole lot more feminist anyway.

Meanwhile, let men do what they really want to do. Those who will do so already, and for those that don't, they better learn quick rather than try to con the audience / consumers and build up a fanbase on false pretenses.