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#936962 - 09/03/17 09:09 PM Re: Re-Reading the Postboot Legion! (LSH 79, L* 36) [Re: Invisible Brainiac]  
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LSH 79:

In general, I agree with Ibby's comments. The Legionnaires come across as careless amateurs here, and they make some obvious and really silly mistakes. Fortunately for them, the Fatal Five aren't so fatal, after all. Vi has at least two chances to be killed here, but she survives.

Reading this story alongside the Great Darkness Saga for other review thread produces some interesting juxtapositions. The GDS Legion consists of experienced, older, professional heroes who have worked together for a long time and are at the peak of their skills. The Legionnaires of this story are much younger, brash, and inexperienced. Peyer, McCraw, etc., seem to have made a deliberate choice to emphasize these qualities. The heroes come across like teens who are trying to figure things out as they go along (including who they are and what they can do) and not the seasoned professionals one might expect. This portrayal ties in nicely with the plot, I believe. Tharok alludes that the Legionnaires have been set up on this Sun-Eater quest; apparently, President Chu did not expect such inexperienced heroes to survive their encounter with the Fatal Five.

The fight scenes are indeed difficult to follow at first, but they reward careful attention. On Page 4, for example, as many as three different things are happening in one panel, and the action sometimes carries over in the next panel. For instance:

Panel 1: Cos squares off against Empress. Cos tells Cham not to worry about Empress's blade. Spark attacks Persuader.
Panel 2: Cos fights Empress. Persuader's axe cuts through Spark's lightning bolt.
Panel 3: Cham sneaks up on Empress from behind while Cos looks on. Spark flies away from Persuader. Imra confronts Validus.
Panel 4: Validus roars at Imra.
Panel 5: Imra collapses from Validus's mental resistance while Cos looks on.

So, there is a lot going on, yet these scenes display a certain order and flow with Cos serving as the anchor. He's like a recurring motif in a song, keeping our attention focused. These scenes are densely layered. Over on the other review thread, I've compared Paul Levitz's approach to writing the Legion to the '80s TV program Hill Street Blues; I think we see more of that influence here. (However, by the time the reboot was launched, densely layered TV scripts were the norm.)

My major gripe is that when the issue ends, it feels as if nothing has been accomplished. The Legion gets into a free-for-all with the Fatal Five and loses. Fortunately, the ceiling explodes, which, we all know, is simply going to bide our heroes some time. I expected more from the plot than one long rumble.


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#937007 - 09/04/17 04:24 PM Re: Re-Reading the Postboot Legion! (LSH 79, L* 36) [Re: Invisible Brainiac]  
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L* 36

It's exhilarating to jump back into these reviews after an absence of some years, and not having re-read the stories leading up to this arc. I feel like I've parachuted into a carnival and am holding on to the Ferris Wheel for dear life. This is a good feeling. It evokes the memory of being a kid and going on a real Ferris Wheel (or Octopus or Butterfly, etc.): You know that this is very dangerous. A fall from this height could kill you, and the contraption may break down, etc. Yet your parents or friends are with you, so it must be safe. Either that, or you're all going to die.

L* 36 conveys all those feelings and then some, especially as Live Wire's rescue squad arrives just in time to save the Legion. The two-page spread with XS running into Tharok and the others appearing through the hole in the hull (which Jan turns around to seal shut) is simply marvelous. The role call bordering the panel tells us everything we need to know about who's who. This is the kind of story I wanted to read as a kid and which the kid in me still loves to read.

Most of the story works extremely well, though it is dragged down by two long and largely unnecessary flashbacks. We don't need all the lengthy captions on Page 1 which tell us who XS is, who her grandfather was, that she was drafted, etc. All we really need to know is that she just returned from a time-travel jaunt and was accosted by a mysterious robed figure in the middle of the ocean. Less is more, folks.

Likewise, the lengthy flashback of Garth recruiting Jo, Jan, Andromeda, Valor, and XS detracts from the action and suspense. Much of this is necessary information, especially Jan's forgiveness which prompts Andromeda to join them, but it could be truncated.

There are a few other details which are of questionable merit in the story. Jo receives a ghostly whisper (from the temporarily deceased Apparition, I presume) to switch to invulnerability in the nick of time, and Kinetix appears out of nowhere, also in the nick of time. Deus ex machina plot devices strain the credibility in a story which already asks us to believe that Garth undertook a secret mission for Rokk and arrived (yes) in the nick of time. Brainy's distracted crush on Andromeda is amusing the first time; after that, it becomes silly.

Other aspects of the story shine, such as escalating tensions between Braal and Titan, and how the Fatal Five fits into all this. Cosmic Boy is the leader we all wish we could be: He's planned Garth's rescue mission well in advance. He sizes up the situation and sends three teams of Legionnaires on missions to deal with different aspects of the problem. He also picks the teams very well, such as sending Lyle, Lu, Vi and Cham to question Ambassador Wazzo--an encounter that seems to go horribly wrong, but all is not what it seems.

The artwork captures the childlike wonder of this era of the Legion yet employs sophisticated and innovative narrative techniques. The news scrawl at the bottom of pp. 2-3 tells us about the escalating political situation without distracting from XS's encounter with the two robed figures. The layout of Garth's flashback on pp. 10-11 is mostly coherent (though I was confused by the three-image sequence that introduces Valor--his floating legs and Saturn Girl's image are unnecessary and distracting). Keeping all of this straight is no easy task considering the amount of dialogue and the number of word balloons. As a writer, I'm getting a headache just thinking of scripting all this.

L* 36 is a tense and exciting chapter which moves the story forward yet allows plenty of time for our heroes to interact with one another and display their personalities. As we've discussed before, the writers of this era respected the readers' intelligence, too. There is a huge bait-and-switch going on, which will become clear in the next story, yet at no point do the creators feel it necessary to drop unnecessary hints as writers of the past might have ("Things look grim for our Legionnaires, but just wait and see--next ish!").

By the way, my copy of this issue is signed by Jeffrey Moy, whom I met at a Kansas City comic convention in 2002.



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#937270 - 09/10/17 05:15 AM Re: Re-Reading the Postboot Legion! (LSH 79, L* 36) [Re: Invisible Brainiac]  
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Looks like you and I have many similar opinions on these last two issues, HWW!

I'm also glad L* 36 made up for the "lost time" caused by the lack of plot movement in LSH 79. And I totally agree that a) the Reboot era writers respected readers' intelligence, and b) also fit in a LOT of details into their stories, which may be too much!

I am so envious that you have Jeff Moy's signature on your copy. I am a very big fan of his art! Not just his style, but also how well he handles his layouts.

#937283 - 09/10/17 09:44 AM Re: Re-Reading the Postboot Legion! (LSH 79, L* 36) [Re: Invisible Brainiac]  
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On respecting readers' intelligence: I admire the scene at Winema Wazzo's quarters. It is an example of how to trust readers and not spell everything out for them. Four Legionnaires enter Winema's quarters; the guards outside hear a fight. The door opens and Vi is tossed out, unconscious. Lu staggers to the door and passes out. As the guards peer inside, they see what appear to be a human skeleton and a blob on the floor, leading them to believe Lyle and Cham have not survived their encounter with the elusive Winema. But understanding this scene requires the reader to know what Lyle and Cham can do with their powers--things the guards may not be aware of. (The guards' ignorance of the Legionnaires' powers is hinted at when one of them fails to recognize Vi as Imskian.) I haven't read ahead, so I don't recall how the following scene plays out, with Winema shooting Brainy and Chu, but it's masterful how the writers have set up Winema to be the villain of the piece yet subtly hinted that things are not what they seem.

I agree about Moy's layouts. They are inventive without being distracting.


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#937287 - 09/10/17 10:12 AM Re: Re-Reading the Postboot Legion! (LSH 79, L* 36) [Re: Invisible Brainiac]  
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Re the Winema quarters scene; if I remember right, the next issue would be the first time that Lyle reveals he can use "partial" invisibility to appear as a skeleton. But, it is a plausible extension of his powers - not one that seems like a deus ex machina. And I agree, the writers did an excellent job of setting Winema up to be a plausible villain while still leaving enough clues that she may not be!

#937568 - 09/15/17 04:44 PM Re: Re-Reading the Postboot Legion! [Re: Invisible Brainiac]  
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Legion of Super-Heroes 80
Trust

Issue information

Summary:

As Live Wire, Spark, Star Boy and Ultra Boy distract the Titan fleet, Saturn Girl and Gates board the lead ship. Saturn Girl's teacher Dr. Micah Aven helps telepathically shut down the commander to stop the fleet from attacking Braal. Ultra Boy experiences a surge of pain, but brushes it off.

Leviathan, XS, Kinetix, Andromeda, Jan Arrah and Valor stop the Fatal Five from launching Braalian weapons at Titan. Mano turns on Tharok, as Mano is not willing to mass-murder innocents. Andromeda tries to save an injured Tharok's life.

RJ Brande joins Cosmic Boy in the Legion Monitor Room. They watch as Winema Wazzo tries threatening Brainiac 5 and President Chu into using Brainy's time machine to save Apparition. For some reason, Winema is broadcasting her actions to the entire galaxy. To pressure Brainy, Winema cites her accomplishments: sending the Fatal Five to ambush the Legion; brainwashing Jan Arrah; setting up the Sun-Eater hoax; and inciting the first Braal-Titan War so the United Planets could gain prestige by ending it. Brainy tackles Winema and gets shot by accident. Chu destroys the cameras and questions Winema as to how she knew of all these plans, considering they were Chu's. Winema reveals herself to be Chameleon; Cosmic Boy arrives and reveals that there was a second hidden camera broadcasting Chu's actions to the galaxy. Invisible Kid, Brainiac 5, Shrinking Violet and Triad are all alive as well. Cham reveals himself to be fluent in Interlac, and was pretending to have trouble speaking it to make his impersonations more effective.

Cosmic Boy explains to the Legionnaires that Aven had shared his suspicions of Chu before. Cos believed him, and only pretended to follow Chu's orders so she would trust him; Live Wire, Invisible Kid and the Espionage Squad (Chameleon, Triad, VIolet and the deceased Apparition) were helping him behind the scenes. He apologizes for fooling everyone, as he could not risk Chu catching on.

Chu is imprisoned and the real Winema Wazzo cleared of all charges. RJ Brande is elected United Planets President. He pardons Brainiac 5 and Andromeda, clears the Legion of charges related to drugging Winema (so Chameleon could impersonate her) and "kidnapping" Chu to expose her, and abolishes the draft. The Legionnaires smile happily as they realize things will get better for them.

Detailed Summary:

RJ Brande enters the Legion Monitor Room to find Cosmic Boy overwhelmed. Riots are breaking out everywhere over fear of the Sun-Eater. Cos tries to explain to the Science Police that the Sun-Eater is a hoax, but nobody listens. News comes in that the bodies of Triad, Invisible Kid, and Chameleon have been found. Cos breaks down crying. (I have slight issues with this)

Winema Wazzo has restrained Brainiac 5 and President Chu; her henchman Gullo has a gun trained on them. Wazzo tells them she had planned to kidnap Chu and force her to abolish the Legion; but because Brainy was present, she now wants Brainy to use his time machine to rescue Tinya.

Spark, Live Wire, Star Boy and Ultra Boy distract the Titan fleet. Thom is an idiot, so Spark gets to explain to him - and us - that they are flying around the ships as a distraction. Live Wire and Spark hold hands and combine their lightning (Lightning Twin powers activate!). Ultra Boy suffers a bout of pain; Thom is concerned, but Jo waves it off. And that's pretty much it for these four.

Gates teleports himself and Saturn Girl into the Titan lead ship, complaining all the way. They are surrounded. Oops.

On Drak IV, Leviathan leads Kinetix, XS, Andromeda, Jan Arrah and Valor to stop the Fatal Five from launching Braalian weapons at Titan. They are attacked by missiles; Kinetix, Jan and Leviathan make short work of them, impressing Valor. They break into the Five's hideout. Gim quips that Jan could just turn the Five into cheese spread, to Jan's disgust. The Empress foolishly tries to attack Andromeda, and gets taken out with one tap. Validus electrocutes Valor and Andromeda, taking them out. Mano runs to Tharok, and is shocked that Tharok plans to launch missiles at Titan.

Brainy refuses Wazzo's ultimatum. Wazzo tries to convince him by listing all her atrocities: sending the Fatal Five to ambush the Legion; brainwashing Jan Arrah; setting up the Sun-Eater hoax; and inciting the first Braal-Titan War so the United Planets could gain prestige by ending it. For some reason, everything is being broadcast to the galaxy. Brainy remains unmoved, so Winema threatens Chu. Gullo hesitates, so Winema vaporizes her. She changes the settings so Chu will leave a corpse and prepares to fire. Brainy manages to unlock his restraints and tackle Wazzo (wow, Brainy doing something physical!?), but she shoots him by accident. Too late, Cos fixes their location as he stares at Brainy's lifeless body. Brande pulls Cos together.

Imra tries to get Titan command to listen to her. They don't; her teacher Micah Aven appears out of nowhere and stuns everyone in the room. Aven hints that Cosmic Boy will take care of everything.

On Drak IV, missiles are launched at Titan. The launch makes Validus lose his balance; XS punches him at super-speed. The Persuader throws his Axe at Leviathan; Jan Arrah transmutes it into... cheese spread! Kinetix blasts the Persuader, and Leviathan does nothing (boo). XS revives Valor and Andy. They find Mano leaning over an injured Tharok; Mano melted Tharok's robot half. Seems Mano was a dupe all along, and doesn't want to go along with killing millions of innocents. Valor takes Mano out, and asks Andy to help him stop the missiles. Andy refuses, saying they need to save Tharok. A surprised Valor (surprised because Andy stood up to him despite fawning all over "Lord Valor" earlier) destroys the missiles.

Winema is still breaking down over Brainy's death, as it means she can't use his time machine to save Tinya. Chu takes advantage of her distraction to destroy the camera. Then she turns on Wazzo, asking her how she knew about everything. Turns out, they were Chu's actions and plans. All that Winema missed was the new Braal-Titan war. Winema goes "gotcha", and Cos and Brande walk in. As they Chu, Winema reveals herself to be Chameleon! Invisible Kid and Violet appear (Violet was Gullo), and Brainiac 5 is alive. They had set things up so Chu would expose herself. Triad is also alive, much to Brande's delight. Cham reveals his fluency in Interlac to Brande, much to my delight as this is probably the funniest scene in the issue (see below for a quote).

Time for the wrap up! Cos explains that Aven shared his suspicions of Chu when he tried to heal Imra (Legionnaires 26). Neither Cos nor Aven could prove it, so Cos pretended to play along with Chu's micro-management to get close and earn her trust. That's why he let Garth,Jo and Jan be kicked out, and why he pushed Imra away (so she wouldn't read his mind by accident) (LSH 72). He apologizes for keeping this a secret from all the other Legionnaires, but he needed to be cautious. Chu never trusted him, so Cos asked Lyle to form an Espionage Squad (pointedly saying, "if he hadn't already") to gather evidence against Chu. Cos also figured out that Jan Arrah's memory of Winema attacking him was false. Zoe asks why Chu wanted to kill them, if she originally wanted to control them. Brainy reasons out that his time machine presented a big threat to Chu, as it would give anyone the ability to undo her work. Lyle and Garth were helping Cos behind the scenes all this time.

The UP meeting ends. Triad tries to apologize to Winema for keeping her drugged while Cham impersonated her; Winema calls her a little criminal as Vi comforts her and Jo explains that Winema is merely in pain over Tinya. Brande throws a tantrum, and Marla Latham explains that he was elected President. Triad sympathizes, but Marla is confident; in the two minutes Brande has been in power, he already pardoned Andromeda (for her role in aiding the White Triangle by giving them the anti-lead serum), and Brainiac 5 (for experimenting with time travel illegally); stopped charges from being pressed against the Legion for any of their actions in the Chu sting; and abolished the Legion draft. The Legionnaires are shocked, and Marla encourages them by saying they are finally free. The gathered Legionnaires look on happily as the Legion flag is raised.

Thoughts:

The story unfolded excellently. The writers kept the suspense up, and made sure that readers would be kept guessing despite leaving clues. Little things like Cosmic Boy pretending to believe Triad and company were dead; and Cham-as-Winema mentioning casually that Brainy's presence was unexpected, really helped.

The art is also great. Moder worked in many subtle, little things that add to the story. Like Lyle trying not to laugh as Cham reveals his fluency in Interlac, or Andromeda standing in front of Brainy as Brainy pauses while reasoning out Cos' secrecy (remember, Cos didn't tell Brainy that Andy was alive). The Legionnaires' groupings in the final page also show their relationships: best friends Vi and Zoe; Triad gushing over Lord Valor; Brainy behind Andromeda; Jo with a hand on Jan's shoulder (both are newbies); Gates and Thom, who joined together.

Likes:

Andromeda taking the Empress out with one tap. Hah! I was getting tired of the Empress endlessly talking about how much she loves killing. Thanks, Andy, for shutting her up (and really, any Legionnaire with long-ranged powers could have taken her out, so I'm glad she went out in a really funny way).

At first, having fake "Winema" broadcast her dramatic kidnapping seems odd. But a) Chu calls her out on acting like a cheap-vid villain (hah!), and b) the story is paced so well that I didn't really question it on my first read-through. And in hindsight, it helped lull Chu into a false sense of security; she never expected there would be a SECOND set of cameras hidden because the first were in plain sight!

Aven's line when he shuts down the minds of the smug Titan soldiers: "Stupid, overbearing, overconfident, blind, unreasonable. The perfect soldier." You tell it like it is, Aven.

Cham using his shapeshifting to fake Winema's phasing, and Lyle's partial invisibility to pretend to be a skeleton. Violet shrinking down to give the impression she had been vaporized as Gullo; and Triad helping fake Lyle's and Cham's deaths. All smart uses of their powers and abilities.

Not everything is swept under the rug; Leviathan grouses about Cos not taking him, his deputy leader, into confidence. And even though Brainy rationally agrees to it, he pointedly pauses and looks at Andromeda while saying so.

Many other lines are great:

1) Kinetix - "lose your footing, Validus?" and when the Persuader says that Gim "makes an irresistible target", she quips "so do you, hatchet man!"

2) Jan gleefully telling Leviathan to catch the Atomic Axe... and turns out, he had turned it into cheese spread

3) The rioters and Science Police reactions to the "confessions" of Winema and Chu. "You've got to be sprocking kidding me!"

4) Brande can't understand how Cham impersonated Winema, as Cham doesn't speak Interlac. Cham's line: "Mr. Brande... did you honestly believe my linguistic instruction would require such a protracted apprenticeship? In actuality, I maintained the appearance of lexical difficulty merely to abet this charade. Comprende, senor?" And Brande just goes... "By... damn." Priceless.

Quibbles:

1) I read a comment in another thread, where a fan complained that Cosmic Boy crying was over the top. Only RJ Brande saw him at that time, and there was no reason for him to go so far to keep the pretense up. What was Brande going to do, anyway? I have to agree; even if Cos was hesitant to confide in Brande as the sting was already in progress, him crying seemed over the top. Didn't he trust Brande? Or did he just want to go for the best actor award?

2) Star Boy. I know he's not the smartest kid on the block, but does Spark really have to explain to him again that they are flying around the Titan ships to jam their sensors? What, wasn't he listening when the Legionnaires were planning? Or is he really that dim? Live Wire, Spark and Ultra Boy didn't get much else to do, but I guess the writers couldn't fit that much more action in.

3) Jan transmuting the Persuader's Axe into cheese spread. That's pretty sophisticated! I don't know that I like Jan to be this powerful (for most of the Reboot, this won't be an issue though; a lot of his future appearances will have him making more simple element-to-element transmutations.

4) Leviathan. Not only did he not contribute much to the battle, but he was barely a leader! Insulting Jan as a "sprocking pacifist" for not wanting to turn the Five into cheese spread? Uh, Legion Code, anyone? And he didn't take leadership either; Kinetix, XS, Valor, Jan and Andromeda all acted autonomously. Yeah, we need some prickly characters on the team to make things interesting, but Gim is supposed to be a tough leader type. At least show him leading!

5) Although the panel payouts were generally good, there was one page - where XS wakes Valor and Andy up - that got the speech bubbles reversed. It was a little bit confusing.

Overall, though, this was a GREAT issue which neatly wrapped up many storylines from the past year or so and explained a lot of odd behavior (like Cos suddenly being a jerk). Many plotlines were resolved as a result of the Chu sting - Andromeda's "exile", Brainy's imprisonment, the rift between Garth and Cos, the status of the Espionage Squad. This was also a very satisfying story, as the Legionnaires triumph not just against the Fatal Five, but against a controlling government. This is a majestic victory, and one they won through both brains AND brawn. This remains one of my favorite issues of all time, and the overall story is also one of my faves.

Last edited by Invisible Brainiac; 09/15/17 04:45 PM.
#937586 - 09/16/17 01:35 PM Re: Re-Reading the Postboot Legion! [Re: Invisible Brainiac]  
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LSH 80

“Trust” is the 1990s equivalent of “The Outcast Legionnaires”/”The Forgotten Legion” from Adventure # 350-351. Consider the parallels:

• Both stories involve several Legionnaires being captured, maimed, or apparently killed.
• Some Legionnaires are expelled in the events leading up to the story.
• The Legionnaires must take in and trust new members (Sir Prize and Miss Terious/Garth’s rescue squad) whose loyalty may be questionable.
• Every Legionnaire participates—as do various allies.
• The villain is undone from within his/her organization or sphere of influence (The White Witch and Dr. Zan Orbal/Winema Wazzo and the Legion Espionage Squad).
• The Legionnaires win and are made whole: former members return, restrictions end, unexpected good fortune arrives (the kryptonite cloud is changed/Brande’s presidency leads to positive changes for the Legion.)
• Both stories represent something of an early apex in the Legion’s career.
• Both stories follow the apparent death of a Legionnaire (Triplicate Girl/Apparition).
• Both stories precede disastrous events which lead to the death of a Legionnaire (Ferro Lad/Leviathan).

The 1990s creators may or may not have intended such parallels—perhaps the Legion’s story just “goes” this way. What amazes me is that LSH 80 preserves essential elements of the earlier story while weaving and reshaping them into something new. “Trust” is not only about the Legionnaires earning trust and learning to trust their leader, but also about fans learning to trust where the reboot was going. For both characters and fans, their faith is amply rewarded.

The Big Reveal unfolds in such a way that seems both natural and psychologically complex. Winema is portrayed as a woman on the brink of insanity—willing to go to any length to restore her daughter. At first, her plan seems ludicrous, but when we learn it involves Brainy’s time machine, it makes horrifying sense. I almost wish the creators had stuck with this idea because it of its psychological and ethical sophistication. What parent wouldn’t want to use time travel to restore a lost child?

What we’re given works well nonetheless. It’s not Winema, after all, but Cham, who, along with the other members of the Espionage Squad, participate in one of the great deceptions of all time. They lull President Chu into thinking Winema is a broken woman, someone who is no longer a threat, yet who was able to figure out the particulars of Chu’s own crimes. All that remains is for Chu to get out of Winema how she knew about Chu’s schemes. Thinking she has the upper hand, Chu reveals herself to be the true villain.

It works so well I have only two minor quibbles:

Quibble #1: Cham reveals after the fact that he mastered Interlac some time ago and was only pretending he couldn’t understand the language. Fair enough, but it comes across as too convenient and too sudden. I don’t recall if there were any clues leading up this second reveal, but, if not, there should have been. It’s a funny revelation nonetheless.

Quibble #2: This has more to do with events which have happened in the 21 years since this story was published (and the 15 years or so since I first read it), particularly the state of politics. Okay, so Chu admits before a camera that she staged the Sun-Eater hoax, instigated a war between Braal and Titan and almost instigated another. Are we to believe this is enough to get her drummed out of office? Where are all the Chu supporters who refuse to accept the evidence or claim she did what she had to for the betterment of earth and/or humans? Where are her claims of “alternate facts”? Had Chu studied early 21st century politics, she might have walked away unscathed.

From my jaded perch, this story works primarily because it plays into the childhood yearnings we all have: the belief that kids can make a difference, that bad guys will get what’s coming to them, and that all will be right with the world if we pull together and work hard. R.J. even becomes president—and his first actions are Legion-centric. The moral order of the universe is restored.

I’ve used the word “restored” throughout this review somewhat unintentionally—for LSH 80 is truly about the world being restored to some desirable state of being. If the reboot were a novel or a movie, this would be a good place to end it. As with most popular fiction, “Trust” does what it is intended to do: fulfill a desire for a moral purpose in the universe, and to reinforce the notion that heroes can discern this purpose and achieve it.

In comics, at least, our heroes can do just that.


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#937593 - 09/16/17 01:55 PM Re: Re-Reading the Postboot Legion! [Re: Invisible Brainiac]  
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Comparing LSH 80 (and the lead-up issues) to the Outcast Legionnaires is genius, HWW! I never drew the connection between those two stories. But you listed a lot of parallels that make sense.

You do have a good point, that Chu may have had some die-hard supporters who would stand by her no matter what. I do think that she would still have been booted out - the UP delegates would likely have accepted her admission as hard evidence - but it does seem odd that we never see any Chu supporters, in hindsight.

As for Cham, I also can't recall any hints that he was fluent in Interlac - except perhaps that one panel in Legionnaires 36 where he whispers something unknown to readers in Brainy's ear. It's a very weak clue, though. I also remember his Interlac getting marginally better since his first appearance, but certainly nowhere near fluent.

Last edited by Invisible Brainiac; 09/16/17 01:56 PM.
#937602 - 09/16/17 07:49 PM Re: Re-Reading the Postboot Legion! [Re: Invisible Brainiac]  
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She ran and called him Wildfire.
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Originally Posted by Invisible Brainiac

The art is also great. Moder worked in many subtle, little things that add to the story. Like . . . Andromeda standing in front of Brainy as Brainy pauses while reasoning out Cos' secrecy (remember, Cos didn't tell Brainy that Andy was alive).


Good catch!

Moder's art has a certain appeal but some of his figures take getting used to. Valor on p. 7, for example, just looks wrong.

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Likes:

Andromeda taking the Empress out with one tap. Hah! I was getting tired of the Empress endlessly talking about how much she loves killing. Thanks, Andy, for shutting her up (and really, any Legionnaire with long-ranged powers could have taken her out, so I'm glad she went out in a really funny way).


One of the single best moments of the reboot.

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Aven's line when he shuts down the minds of the smug Titan soldiers: "Stupid, overbearing, overconfident, blind, unreasonable. The perfect soldier." You tell it like it is, Aven.


Yes, but it bothers me that Aven refers to Imra as "my most adequate student." Do they not practice constructive criticism on Titan?

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Violet shrinking down to give the impression she had been vaporized as Gullo; and Triad helping fake Lyle's and Cham's deaths. All smart uses of their powers and abilities.


I loved the Gullo/gullible bit.

I'm unclear on how Triad "stood in" for Cham and Vi at Winema's quarters, though. Does this mean she impersonated them? If so, how was she able to pull off Vi's shrinking and Cham turning himself into a blob, or am I missing something?

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Not everything is swept under the rug; Leviathan grouses about Cos not taking him, his deputy leader, into confidence.


Nice character bit there--and it shows why Gim really wasn't cut out to be a leader. He looks good on paper but doesn't have the skills necessary to put the mission above his personal feelings. This is also telling in his exchange with Jan, first encouraging the latter to violate the Legion's code and then insulting Jan when he expresses disgust. Gim may have been kidding in both cases, but a leader should not "kid" with someone he doesn't know very well. What if Jan had taken the "cheese spread" invitation seriously? Gim wears his feelings on his sleeve too much.

Jan's "cheese spread" come back later in the story was priceless--though I, too, wonder what elements were involved in creating cheese spread.

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Comparing LSH 80 (and the lead-up issues) to the Outcast Legionnaires is genius, HWW!


Thanks!

Quote
You do have a good point, that Chu may have had some die-hard supporters who would stand by her no matter what. I do think that she would still have been booted out - the UP delegates would likely have accepted her admission as hard evidence - but it does seem odd that we never see any Chu supporters, in hindsight.


Curiously enough, just two years after this story was published, impeachment proceedings were initiated against the president of the United States for perjury and sexual harassment. Yet we have now elected a leader who openly makes crude and demeaning comments towards women, makes statements which are verifiably untrue, and whose policies target people based on race and religion. To be fair, the ascendancy of Donald Trump would have been unthinkable when "Trust" was published; in its own way, however, the story comes across as naive to me as some of the '60s Legion stories must have seemed to '90s readers. The Legion wins a complete and total victory against the most powerful person in the UP, and she goes away without a word.


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#937606 - 09/16/17 10:26 PM Re: Re-Reading the Postboot Legion! [Re: He Who Wanders]  
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Originally Posted by He Who Wanders
Originally Posted by Invisible Brainiac

The art is also great. Moder worked in many subtle, little things that add to the story. Like . . . Andromeda standing in front of Brainy as Brainy pauses while reasoning out Cos' secrecy (remember, Cos didn't tell Brainy that Andy was alive).


Good catch!



Thanks!

Originally Posted by He Who Wanders

Moder's art has a certain appeal but some of his figures take getting used to. Valor on p. 7, for example, just looks wrong.





Indeed. A good point about Moder's art is he makes the Legionnaires look young; but sometimes he makes them look a bit off.


Originally Posted by He Who Wanders


I'm unclear on how Triad "stood in" for Cham and Vi at Winema's quarters, though. Does this mean she impersonated them? If so, how was she able to pull off Vi's shrinking and Cham turning himself into a blob, or am I missing something?



Not clear to me either. Was she disguised as Lyle and Cham when they walked in? But what was the point of that? Lyle and Cham could have walked in as themselves, and still faked their deaths.

I also don't understand why the news bit said Triad's body was found; in Legionnaires 36, we only see one skeleton and one blob. This part wasn't thought out well.

Originally Posted by He Who Wanders


Gim wears his feelings on his sleeve too much.



We will see even more egregious examples of this in LSH 82! Gim is the same way towards Thom and Gates. I expect more self-control from a former Science Police officer as well.

#937638 - 09/17/17 07:19 PM Re: Re-Reading the Postboot Legion! [Re: Invisible Brainiac]  
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He Who Wanders Offline
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I also noticed there was no mention of Violet among the casualties in the news report . . .

The interesting aspect about Gim is that he might have made a good sci-cop or even Legion leader if he had been given the time to grow into either role. He was rushed up the sci-cop ranks very quickly once he had acquired his power. His accelerated promotion was a publicity stunt, but it gave him too much responsibility too soon. He carried that lack of development over into the Legion, trying to measure up to what he thought a leader should be. It should also be noted that the Legion was a very different organization than the Science Police. The military-like structure of the SP simply didn't work for a diverse group of young draftees, yet Gim had trained in the black-and-white world of giving and following orders (and, probably, making crude comments involving cheese spread).

Many of my military students have noted the differences between writing and working in civilian sectors versus the military. The military is straightforward; if there's a question, there's usually a rule book somewhere with the answer. Actions and statements are clear, direct, and unequivocal. The civilian world is messy and requires nuance in how people interact with one another.

Gim's military training comes through in at least two panels in LSH 80. On Page 3, his dialogue as leader of one of the mission teams is straightforward and decisive ("We're heading in"). Compare this with Saturn Girl's dialogue; she takes a moment to assure Cosmic Boy that she won't let her people hurt his (a rather condescending way of putting it, but . . .). Both responses are appropriate, but they bring Gim's no-frills mindset into sharp relief.

On Page 7, he tells the members of his team, "It's worth our lives to keep these creeps from launching them against--" This can be read on two levels. It could be an indication of his death wish, as we've discussed elsewhere. But it's also a very military thing to say: putting the mission first and being ready to sacrifice one's life for others.



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#937658 - 09/18/17 09:33 AM Re: Re-Reading the Postboot Legion! [Re: Invisible Brainiac]  
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Invisible Brainiac Offline
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One refreshing thing about Gim is his strong conviction for the Legion's mission. He in no uncertain terms expresses his resolve, and even his disgust at the villains.

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