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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 18
thoth lad #938704 10/11/17 07:55 PM
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Originally Posted by thoth lad


I misread what was going on at the end of last issue. When Dirk said “Now I have to wait for Cosmic Boy’s ship to get back from Daxam to give him the news” I thought he was going to wait at the spaceport, as Rokk was already shown to be on his way. Actually, the criminals were taken off for trial and Rokk’s shuttle didn’t get in until that had been completed and they were on their way to prison.


You read it the same way I did. What's not clear is how long the trial took, and how long it took Rokk and Lydda to return to earth. The intro threw me for this reason: Why wasn't Dirk waiting at the spaceport for Rokk? However, your explanation makes sense if some time passed and it wasn't certain when Rokk and Lydda would return.

It still bugs me, though, that Rokk read about the fireballing in the newscan. Surely it would have been better for one of the Legionnaires (or Nura, as leader) to contact him personally so he wouldn't have to find out about it in such an impersonal way.

Also, I would think he would rush to the hospital to check on his family before going after the fireballers, but, from the context of the story, it seems he didn't.


Quote
Dirk’s reaction still seems off kilter. He feared what Cos was capable of last issue, yet he’s surprised to be called to the Spaceport, makes a comment about Subs attacking Legionnaires and has to ask what’s going on. Odd. Despite what he said last time, Dirk now thinks Cos is very level headed and that he should have waited for the shuttle.


Yeah, this is an example of a Legionnaire (or the writer) playing dumb.

Quote
As the Legion take Rokk back to HQ, the Matter Eater subplot resolves quietly. Tenzil’s departure is one of the longer running membership changes Levitz brought about from his first issue. There’s no party for Tenzil, just a goodbye from Brainy and a ship back to Bismoll. The subdued nature if it is also a sign that this development is more to do with the ongoing Computo plot, rather than a finale for Tenzil.


I'm just as glad that we weren't given a protracted goodbye for Tenz. At this point, he was a very minor character in the Legion pantheon, not the swingin', super-fun fan favorite he became later. The insanity subplot did drag on too long, but, considering that real people suffer from life-long mental illnesses, we should be glad it was resolved at all. (At least, Tenz didn't have to wait a thousand years for a cure, right, Kal?)

It was a nice send-off, though--one which allowed Brainy to show of a sense of humor that would sadly be absent in later incarnations.


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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 18
Dave Hackett #938705 10/11/17 08:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave Hackett
Sure am glad Cos didn't kill those guys and get in any hot water with the law. Thankfully there's no laws on the books in the future for attempted murder, assault, destruction of property, tresspassing, obstruction of justice or any of that stuff, or Cos might be facing some heavy consequences. wink


Ah, the joys of being a super-hero and not having to worry about trifling things like that.

This scene reminds me of a scene in the film "Gosford Park," when two aristocrats are having a car window-side chat in the midst of pouring rain but are kept dry by a ladies' maid who dutifully stands between the cars and holds an umbrella while getting soaked. The conversation goes on for some time with the two bluebloods oblivious tothe maid's shivering and silent pleas.

When you're a Legionnaire or an aristocrat, you don't have time for the little people.



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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 18
Future #938713 10/12/17 06:14 AM
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Originally Posted by HWW
Sure, we learn Cos was born on earth instead of Braal, but so what?


Perhaps Levtiz was chatting in the hall with Roy Thomas one day, and the difference in power levels suddenly had to be explained. Or perhaps, it’s just that Cos is so powerful compared to the others, with all the tricks shown this issue, that they felt it needed a origin tweak. Actually, I’m wondering if Rokk being born on Earth wasn’t something we already knew from a letter page infodump or digest issue.

Originally Posted by HWW
This changes nothing about his character or our understanding of him. I would have appreciated some more insight into just how hard life was on Braal. Cos only summarizes this hardship, but I don’t get a sense of how it shaped him or his family. (He does mention that he blew the magnoball Olympic championship, though; this is at odds, in hindsight, with the super-athlete Rokk Krinn became in the Reboot.)


It makes a nice change for a character to get a flaw tagged on than another layer of how wonderful they’ve always been.

Originally Posted by HWW
The second flashback consists of an immaculately drawn but standard recap of the Brande Incident. I skipped through most of it.


Likewise smile

Originally Posted by HWW
Another highlight: the death of his mother was a sad moment and brilliantly depicted through the computer images.


nod

Originally Posted by HWW
However, this leads into the second WTF moment. Just what is Rokk doing in those last three panels? Clearly, he is using his power to make someone scream. Is he inflicting some last-minute torture on the fireballers, or did he find a way to kill them without their deaths being traced back to him?


I had missed the scream when I was reading it. I only noticed it when I went back to check something. I just assumed, as we had just shown him not wanting to sink to the level of the crooks, that there was another crime out there. Your version, where it’s the fireballers makes much more sense, as they’re already established in the story.

Is it just a little parting shot to the crooks to remind them of what nearly happened? That would keep the smile as someone who has then moved on, although now aware of his capabilities and limits.

If the fireballers died, Cos would be on the hook after what he just put them through. Never mind the rest of his rampage, this would have to lead to repercussions.


Originally Posted by HWW
As much as I like thoth’s idea that Saturn Girl intervened by impersonating Ewa, there is nothing in the story which suggests this.


I’ll settle for it being liked… and the plot seed being put out there. ;smile: I had missed the female face in that page at first too, again only catching it when checking something else. My immediate thought when I saw the face was that it was Imra. Ewa wasn’t very prominent in the story, and I had to go back and check hair styles in the end. But unless ROkk had lots of memories of him om shouting “No!” at him, it was a little odd. I think we’re only a cameo appearance of a worried Imra, earlier in the story when Garth appeared, to make it plausible. smile


Originally Posted by HWW
I have no problem believing that it was Rokk’s memory of his mother which intervened. But what do we make of his final actions? It’s hard to say since we’re unclear on what those actions are.


He wanted to kill – realised that it would shame the memory of his mother – doesn’t kill – but leaves a little reminder behind at the last perhaps? New Rokk might not be quite so deep and calm is what I take from that. Not that I remember seeing anything like that. Still, he did end up…

Originally Posted by HWW
Although the second interpretation fits in with his eventual transformation into the Time Trapper (a revelation which is among the biggest WTF moments of all time, Legion-wise, for me), there just isn’t enough evidence in the story for us to draw a definite conclusion.


Originally Posted by Cramer
One of the creepiest endings I’ve seen in a Legion comic. Rokk truly looks conniving. What’s in his head? Is this when he decides to become the Time Trapper?


I could see some of the steps towards it (Terrible Portrait – History Buff – happy slapper – wound too tight – personality break this issue - Timelines not adding up and trying to fix them around Legends etc.) even if it was all very rushed to the scheduled End of an Era.

Originally Posted by Cramer
I call it clumsy since Lydda should know his story by now and Dr. Chang doesn’t need the history lesson when she’s got a loose cannon in a medical facility.


Unless Dr Chang is an agent of the Time Trapper. It explains why she’s so unfamiliar with the timeline. She’s there to help Young Rokk go down the path of Trapperdom. smile

Originally Posted by Cramer
Dirk once again plays a pivotal role, demonstrating his understanding of human nature by letting Rokk play out his personal drama. Garth had a brief appearance, but was the voice of calm and reason for all of his two panels.


If only Imra had appeared with Garth! (see above Ultra Pet Theory) smile




Originally Posted by Cramer
I feel his devastation at the loss of his mother; he just looks so beaten down. We didn’t know Ewa Krinn, she was a non-entity as a character; all impact of her death is felt through her son.


It’s common comics knowledge that many main characters are orphans and all alone in the world. It’s not so well known that many of these characters’ families are alive and well. They disown the main character as soon as they put on a crime fighting cape. This is in order to avoid becoming background character cannon fodder, existing just to provide the hero a reaction to their deaths. smile

Originally Posted by Cramer
I feel his devastation at the loss of his mother; he just looks so I’m seeing Darkseid everywhere now: on pages 7 & 9, silhouette images of Rokk remind me of the Servants, or Darkseid himself. It strikes me as a reflection of the darkness in his soul.


Who knew the Curse would start off with one of the Legion readers? Your posts will consist of the Anti-Life Equation in no time smile

Originally Posted by Dave
Sure am glad Cos didn't kill those guys and get in any hot water with the law. Thankfully there's no laws on the books in the future for attempted murder, assault, destruction of property, tresspassing, obstruction of justice or any of that stuff, or Cos might be facing some heavy consequences.


There’s a lot of SP/ RJ Brande buy offs going on. I imagine that when Earthgov was looking to shut them down after the collapse, that they wheeled out all the victims of falling buildings/spaceships from issues like this.

Originally Posted by HWW
You read it the same way I did. What's not clear is how long the trial took, and how long it took Rokk and Lydda to return to earth. The intro threw me for this reason: Why wasn't Dirk waiting at the spaceport for Rokk? However, your explanation makes sense if some time passed and it wasn't certain when Rokk and Lydda would return.


Something else else bad happened to the Internet between the 20th and 30th centuries, preventing Dirk from checking timetables. Superman probably battled Iterneto in the 22nd century, shutting it all down smile

Originally Posted by HWW
It still bugs me, though, that Rokk read about the fireballing in the newscan. Surely it would have been better for one of the Legionnaires (or Nura, as leader) to contact him personally so he wouldn't have to find out about it in such an impersonal way.


Who needs space phones that don’t get a signal when you have telepathic earplugs… that don’t get a signal.

A Legionnaire to contact him… like Imra! smile


Originally Posted by HWW
Also, I would think he would rush to the hospital to check on his family before going after the fireballers, but, from the context of the story, it seems he didn't.


That’s an interesting spot. It’s suggests there’s more anger than caring under his heroism. I tie that into having to have the face of his mother appear. It’s not innate heroism that stops him killing. It’s the reminder of his upbringing that does it. Had his upbringing been a little different, Dirk would be asking the SP if they wanted to make use of the Legion’s handy evidence cremation service.

Originally Posted by HWW
(At least, Tenz didn't have to wait a thousand years for a cure, right, Kal?)


smile

Originally Posted by HWW
It was a nice send-off, though--one which allowed Brainy to show of a sense of humor that would sadly be absent in later incarnations.


I am Querl Dox! You lower lifeforms may address me as Git 5.0 smile


"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 18
Future #938716 10/12/17 07:17 AM
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I had misremembered the placement of the scream, and had thought it coincided with Cos flying into the air (i.e. it was him screaming in grief/anger/pain/exuberance). Obviously that's not the case as it happens the panel before. I tend to agree it's just him giving the fireballers one last painful tweak before he leaves.

Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 18
He Who Wanders #938717 10/12/17 07:17 AM
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Originally Posted by He Who Wanders
297:
However, this leads into the second WTF moment. Just what is Rokk doing in those last three panels? Clearly, he is using his power to make someone scream. Is he inflicting some last-minute torture on the fireballers, or did he find a way to kill them without their deaths being traced back to him?


I always found that scene confusing too! Because we didn't see what happened, and only had Rokk's weird expression to go by (and the scream), it seemed creepy and wrong, and I don't know whose choice it was to frame it that way, the artist or the writer, but it just didn't work at all, IMO.

(If they had intended to foreshadow a 'Rokk goes evil' storyline, then yes, perhaps, but it's been decades, and classic-continuity-Rokk is still kind of an uptight good-guy who takes on far too much responsibility, as of the last time we saw him.)


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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 18
Future #938766 10/12/17 08:01 PM
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I'm too lazy to quote tonight, but here are some addenda to the above posts:

1. The notion that Rokk's powers are stronger than the average Braalian's because he was born on earth is one of those cases of something that doesn't need to be explained. Why not just say he's stronger because he worked hard as a magnoball player to develop his powers? Athletes tend to be stronger than the average person. The story only suggests that Rokk's earth birth (hah!) might have caused his power upgrade, but doing so only reinforces the conceit that there is something special about earth (Superboy and Mon-El gained powers under its yellow sun) and another conceit that heroes are born, not made. (No working hard for your power; you were just born with it.)

2. Ewa Krinn was indeed a minor character in this story, and that's unfortunate because we don't get a sense of Rokk's relationship with her. If we had, we might have been given a much better context for the ending of the story. Thoth makes a telling observation that, because Rokk went after the fireballers before checking on his family, it may have to do with anger over how he was raised. Perhaps Rokk didn't have a close relationship with his parents, which leads to . . .

3. Given that Hu Krinn was perpetually out of work or looking for work, I can't help but wonder what kind of toll this had taken on his family. Was Hu abusive? Did he become an alcoholic? Rokk may be giving Lydda and us only the Hallmark version of his childhood, which is why he doesn't go into detail. It's a pity Rokk and Tenz had no scenes together in this issue, because their upbringings may have given them a lot in common.

4. Of course, not everyone who is out work/looking for work is a drunk or abusive. Perhaps Hu and Ewa were paragons of fortitude and lovingkindness, but it would make more sense if they weren't. That would explain the anger in Cos and why he delayed going to the hospital as long as possible.

5. While I'm wiling to accept the idea that Cos was just inflicting some last-minute torture on the fireballers, I think it makes just as much sense to conclude that he killed them or maybe one of them. Consider the context: He's convinced the Legionnaires that he is not going to murder the criminals. His buddies relax and watch with glowing adoration as he strides away. Then one of the fireballers screams--dying of a heart attack or brain aneurysm or something (aided by the iron in his blood "twisting, turning"), an unfortunate end, but one which can't be traced directly to Rokk. How would an autopsy even prove that his magnetism had caused the death?

6. Whatever is going on, Rokk is clearly pulling a fast one on the Legionnaires. His actions and expression undermine their dialogue in the last four panels.

7. Even if Rokk is just a torturer and not a murderer, I still wouldn't want to invite him to any of my parties.

One of the most frustrating things about this story is that it is so full of possibilities but doesn't take us all the way down any particular road.


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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 18
He Who Wanders #938774 10/13/17 05:26 AM
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Originally Posted by He Who Wanders

5. While I'm wiling to accept the idea that Cos was just inflicting some last-minute torture on the fireballers, I think it makes just as much sense to conclude that he killed them or maybe one of them. Consider the context: He's convinced the Legionnaires that he is not going to murder the criminals. His buddies relax and watch with glowing adoration as he strides away. Then one of the fireballers screams--dying of a heart attack or brain aneurysm or something (aided by the iron in his blood "twisting, turning"), an unfortunate end, but one which can't be traced directly to Rokk. How would an autopsy even prove that his magnetism had caused the death?



The problem I have with this interpretation is that it goes counter to Rokk's speech just after he sees/imagines the ghost of his Mom. While he's ostensibly talking out loud to the fireballers, it's really an internal monologue coming to terms with his ideals, and I don't think he'd discard that revelation so quickly.

Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 18
Future #938790 10/13/17 11:21 AM
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Good point, Dave. I'm kind of troubled by that, too. Rokk says he doesn't want to commit murder in his mother's name, so an about-face would be hard to explain. But this is a guy who spontaneously shoves his girlfriend through a wall so she won't follow him. Who knows what sort of rationalizations he may have gone through to override Impulse-Control Lad?

Rokk-Angel: "Good. You've kept your ideals intact. I'm proud of you."

Rokk-Devil: "But they're getting away with murder."

Rokk-Angel: "They're not getting away. They're going to prison."

Rokk-Devil: "To Takron-Galtos, where everyone escapes sooner or later. Kill them. Kill them now. Just kill one. That'll keep the rest in fear forever."

Rokk-Angel: "Don't do it, Rokk. Your mother--"

Rokk-Devil: "Your mother didn't deserve to die that way. Can you imagine how much she suffered? Let them suffer, too! Show them you can't be trifled with."

And so it goes . . .


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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 18
Future #938819 10/14/17 05:59 AM
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Originally Posted by HWW
2. Ewa Krinn was indeed a minor character in this story, and that's unfortunate because we don't get a sense of Rokk's relationship with her. If we had, we might have been given a much better context for the ending of the story. Thoth makes a telling observation that, because Rokk went after the fireballers before checking on his family, it may have to do with anger over how he was raised. Perhaps Rokk didn't have a close relationship with his parents, which leads to . . .

3. Given that Hu Krinn was perpetually out of work or looking for work, I can't help but wonder what kind of toll this had taken on his family. Was Hu abusive? Did he become an alcoholic? Rokk may be giving Lydda and us only the Hallmark version of his childhood, which is why he doesn't go into detail. It's a pity Rokk and Tenz had no scenes together in this issue, because their upbringings may have given them a lot in common.

4. Of course, not everyone who is out work/looking for work is a drunk or abusive. Perhaps Hu and Ewa were paragons of fortitude and lovingkindness, but it would make more sense if they weren't. That would explain the anger in Cos and why he delayed going to the hospital as long as possible.


I think that violent/abusive upbringings for central characters is a bit of an easy cliché for writers to reach for in lace of actual character history. A book summary gets a strike if it mentions the central character overcoming an abused past to… whatever it is… hunt down serial killers a lot of the time it seems… smile

For me, the Krinns have always been a family trying to do as best they can in a world of struggle and regular economic depression. Through no fault of their own, they find themselves in a very tough place and over a long period of time. By extension, the situation on Braal says a lot about how the economy of the UP operates, and what happens to people trapped on worlds, never mind occupations, that are deemed no longer viable. I prefer that, more realistic look at what happens to regular folks in the UP than something overly dark about their personalities.

There could be a lot going on with Rokk. He could be angry at wanting more in his childhood, but finally realising that the lessons his parents have taught him are more valuable than anything he felt he had to do without.

He could be angry at his gnawing sense of failure and lack of self-worth. He thought he’d managed to save his family from one disaster only to deliver them to this. In the same way that he thought his Magnoball career might have saved them only for it not to work. As Dave mentioned, Rokk takes too much onto himself. That could be a need to try and work as hard as he can but knowing it’s only a matter of time before the next disaster comes along. Keeping all that inside would also explain why he’s not the most emotive of Legionnaires. He’s been trapped inside himself for a long time, even before this. Perhaps in those last panels he sees a way of changing things more proactively (as in his final attack on the crooks), before the disasters come again.

But the Dirty Harry thing could just be it smile It could just be a natural extension of grief and that he’s in a position to do something about it.

Originally Posted by He Who Don’t Quote coz’ He Won’t Quote
Rokk-Devil: "Your mother didn't deserve to die that way. Can you imagine how much she suffered? Let them suffer, too! Show them you can't be trifled with."


[Newly Cured] Tenzil: Trifle? That makes me hungry… and it also reminds me of a time when I struggled with the reality of my upbringing. I had to put aside childhood dreams of what I felt everyone should be like, including myself, to become someone better. It all began in Action 381…


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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 18
thoth lad #938853 10/14/17 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by thoth lad

He could be angry at his gnawing sense of failure and lack of self-worth. He thought he’d managed to save his family from one disaster only to deliver them to this. In the same way that he thought his Magnoball career might have saved them only for it not to work. As Dave mentioned, Rokk takes too much onto himself. That could be a need to try and work as hard as he can but knowing it’s only a matter of time before the next disaster comes along. Keeping all that inside would also explain why he’s not the most emotive of Legionnaires. He’s been trapped inside himself for a long time, even before this. Perhaps in those last panels he sees a way of changing things more proactively (as in his final attack on the crooks), before the disasters come again.


I love your analysis of Rokk.

Quote
Originally Posted by He Who Don’t Quote coz’ He Won’t Quote
Rokk-Devil: "Your mother didn't deserve to die that way. Can you imagine how much she suffered? Let them suffer, too! Show them you can't be trifled with."


[Newly Cured] Tenzil: Trifle? That makes me hungry… and it also reminds me of a time when I struggled with the reality of my upbringing. I had to put aside childhood dreams of what I felt everyone should be like, including myself, to become someone better. It all began in Action 381…


I referenced Tenz's upbringing in my post above. He and Rokk seemed to have a lot in common in terms of their family's economic troubles; it's a shame they were never shown as having connected or comparing notes.


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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 18
He Who Wanders #938865 10/14/17 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by He Who Wanders
I love your analysis of Rokk.


Why, thank you kindly sir.

Originally Posted by HWW
I referenced Tenz's upbringing in my post above


That you did. But only a Durlan Legion World imposter of thoth lad would pass up a "trifle" reference smile


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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 18
Future #938902 10/16/17 12:05 PM
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A Legion fan suggested that the Krinns could have been den parents for the early Legionnaires, providing a home for the kids to hang out. That never happened and now we have some hypotheses to explain why.

Early signs of Rokk's ethical instability below. I used to think this was just a funny image but now must say hmmm....:

[Linked Image]

Image by speedforcesatori, from deviantart.com


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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 18
Future #938925 10/16/17 08:13 PM
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^Hilarious!

I love the idea of the Krinns serving as den parents. Just because we never saw it doesn't mean it didn't happen. smile


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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 18
Future #938937 10/17/17 03:48 AM
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LSH #298 The Edge of Nowhere by Paul Levitz & Keith Giffen, art by Giffen & Mahlstedt, colors
by Gafford, letters by Costanza


[Linked Image]

Wildfire, Dawnstar, Blok and Invisible Kid, on Asteroid 73-Q, learn that the consul who sought their help has died. They seize the coffin to investigate. After some debate about the ethics of interfering with a corpse, Mysa creates a spell to detect anything unnatural.

On Medicus One, Garth and Imra demand to see the doctor who is handling Gym’ll’s cases.

Above Earth, Duplicate Boy evades defensive shields and plans to confront Colossal Boy. He tracks Gim and Vi to a hotel in the Himalayas and tears open the roof of their room.

On the asteroid, Mysa’s spell reveals that the consul’s heart was crushed. Dawnstar is nauseated. Mysa collapses. Wildfire leaves Jacques to watch over the women and he and Blok investigate the mining tunnels. Wildfire wants to avoid calling Dream Girl for assistance. An earthquake strikes; Wildfire leaves his suit to try and seal the rock seam but Blok has already braced the walls. They suspect subterfuge, but none of the miners will talk. One indicates it’s not a “who” but a “where” that they should investigate.

At Legion HQ, Jan and Shvaughn play the ancient game of Pac-Man as Jan grumbles about Nura’s leadership. A call from Chief Zendak alerts them to a fight between Colossal Boy and Duplicate Boy in the Himalayas. Jan departs with Jo and Tinya. Jo subdues Duplicate Boy as a frightened Violet pleads for Gim’s safety.

On the asteroid, Dawnstar and Jacques rejoin Wildfire and Blok, as Mysa rests. In a cavern, they discover a large dome, which turns out to be a Khundish Challenge Court. Karlak, seen 11 issues ago, appears and challenges them. When Kharlak throws Dawnstar into a rock wall, Wildfire is angered. Karlak fires a weapon at Wildfire, who disappears, leaving only an empty suit. Jacques comments that he saw something strange and, after checking on Dawnstar, follows what he saw to find Wildfire. Blok takes on Kharlak and hurts him, but Kharlak vanishes, with a vow to return and kill all Legionnaires.

Dawnstar recovers and learns that both Wildfire and Jacques have disappeared; Blok is mystified but knows that they require help.

In the Himalayas, Duplicate Boy acknowledges that he shouldn’t have started the fight and is through with Violet now that she’s chosen someone else and is not the girl he fell in love with. He flies off.
Jo and Tinya depart; Jan remains to speak with Shvaughn. They shared their concerns about Violet, that she appeared to be afraid above all else.

On Brande’s asteroid, RJ and Reep talk together. RJ says that at least Reep has been frozen in his natural shape, unlike RJ, and can learn to live without his power. Reep disagrees, claiming he’ll do anything to get his power back, even return to Durla. RJ says this would be dangerous but wants to accompany him.

The final panel shows an invisible Jacques surrounded by an aura, confused or questioning something.


Comments:

The newest Legionnaires have their ups and downs in this issue. Dawnstar is taken out of action too easily, Mysa collapses (is that a Naltorian thing or a family tendency) and is out for the rest of the story. On the plus side, they defend and watch out for one another, are concerned with ethical issues and, when conscious, are effective. Wildfire is reluctant to call Nura for additional help; although he’s an accomplished Legionnaire, he too appears to have something to prove. Blok is not so reluctant; with Wildfire vanished and Jacques gone after him, he knows they need help.

Kharlak is a dull character, all fight and bluster, not much thinking. He vows to return but I don’t recall that he ever appears again.

The Gim-Ord fight is the big action scene of this issue. Ord’s been through this before (Action #381 “The Hapless Hero”):

[Linked Image]

This time, he’s even angrier and is met, not with reason, but with fists. He’s caught his girl not out on a date but mostly naked in a hotel room. The man does have a temper and an act first, think second approach to life. Vi’s reaction when Ord breaks into the room is “Who..?” which might suggest that she doesn’t know him, but could also be taken as an expression before she she’s who it actually is who’s causing all the commotion. (If Yera wasn’t briefed about Vi’s family, boyfriend, favourite colour, etc. before taking her identity, that’s very poor planning.)

Jan and Shvaughn share some more moments, bringing them closer together. His continued sniping about Nura’s leadership is unbecoming and I rolled my eyes when he called Shvaughn “my little lady detective”, but at least he’s aware that something isn’t quite right with Violet.

The last page sets up the next chapter for Reep, with his intention to return to Durla. We learn from RJ that this is likely to be dangerous and so are promised a story with some complications rather than a “Zap! Your powers are back” solution.

That cover – there’s a term for that sort of “seen through the legs of the villain” cover but I don’t recall it. Not very dynamic.

There’s a preview of Amethyst, Princess of Gemworld, in this issue. I never got into that series but must say I enjoyed a reference to “The Bog of One Thousand Despairs”. We’ve probably all had weeks like that.


Holy Cats of Egypt!
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 18
Future #938941 10/17/17 05:57 AM
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Ok, I'd like to give an objective, non-partisan review of this issue before coming back later with a perhaps more "rose-coloured glasses" review, so here goes:

This is the single best issue of Legion of Super-Heroes of all time. Very best. All time. Period (times infinity).

I loved this issue. I read this issue cover to cover. Many times. In fact, so many times that I actually detached said cover and eventually had to pick up a second copy. I had Paul Levitz sign that copy, and have a picture of he and I holding it with me beaming and him smiling politely.

I like this issue so much i even wen tout and bough the Amethyst series they were hawking in the middle of the book.

Great Cover with Wildfire doing the OK Corral thing. I liked the interaction of the newbie team (as I stated last issue stacked with my favourites). They didn't have a standard team dynamic which was refreshing and fun. They mostly get their asses kicked, which was unexpected but made the issue better (even thoguh pre-teen me always wanted to see Wildfire kicking butt).

I especially liked Blok's scenes, and his threatening to kill Kharlak, indicating that his assassin past isn't fully behind him and he's perhaps not the gentle giant we've been getting used to. I think there was a lot to explore with Blok adjusting to life and culture with fleshy-folk.

Also liked the Duplicate Boy - Colossal Boy fight, thought it's interesting reading in the reprint Ultra Boy finishes it a lot quicker than I remember. I think it's because the big splash page happens right before the Amethyst insert in the original or at the very least you had to turn the page after the splash (someone correct me if I'm wrong), giving it a sense of a mid-story cliffhanger.

I like that underdog Gim gets the girl while the bully goes home, but obviously things are being set up and you get the feeling it's not going to be that happy an ending for the guy. Still younger me was pulling for him.

I didn't pick up when I was younger that the "Earth custom" Gim is talking about is a honeymoon, meaning they are already married, which is revealed at the end of a later issue, which explains why we never saw the wedding.

The doctor covering for Gym'll looks like a nice guy. Nothing nefarious could be happening there at all.

I'll unpack more thoughts later, perhaps with a less objectivity.

Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 18
Future #938973 10/17/17 02:51 PM
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When I first read this issue I didn't really know too much about the team so was incredibly impressed that the team investigating the science asteroid had no obvious Caucasian members, though of course next issue we find out Wildfire was white and I later learned that Musa was too, pre-faeification, bit still it was an amazing image to have for the equality of the future.

Gim and Vi's story kind of passed me by as I didn't know the characters backstory.

The gentle romance between Jan and Shvaugn was rather sweet.

And I liked Block's pyjamas.


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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 18
Future #938986 10/17/17 05:44 PM
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LoSH 298

It’s High Noon, super hero style, on the cover with Wildfire facing off against an unknown opponent. It’s a through the legs shot which became a trope of its own. Wildfire is flanked by Blok and Mysa. They stand behind Drake, so you know it’s a one on one duel. Giffen has added in hillsides to either side, pushing the reader’s attention into the central battle. The side ad for the Amethyst preview gets in the way. Amethyst would end up having Legion links, so it’s appropriate that the preview is in this issue.

A field team of Wildfire, Blok, White Witch, Dawnstar and Invisible Kid investigate some trouble on the fringes of the UP. A Legion Swan sized five person team gives Levitz plenty of time to show us their personalities and how they interact with each other.

Drake is easily frustrated and direct as he steals the coffin of a murdered man. The man who summoned them in the first place. He may have seemed impulsive, but Drake’s plan is to let the White Witch discover the cause of death magically. It’s possible he just assumed Mysa had this knowledge due to a misunderstanding of her codename. But Mysa does have success, within the boundaries that Levitz has set for her powers. I’m enjoying Mysa a lot in her appearances here. She’s patient and thoughtful. She’s quietly determined to prove herself. Her powers aren’t immediate and have to be considered before use. They are versatile but, as mentioned, work within clear boundaries. So much better than her becoming ACME Mage, like so many other DC magic users. Giffen’s visuals for her in these issues are probably among my favourites too.

Jacques is shocked by this approach, which should be remembered later when we find out more about his powers and also when he votes on Brainy’s explsion from the Legion years later.

Blok is methodical, but too slow for Drake and Dawny’s liking. Their impatience leaves him behind, which could cost them one day. Dawny is aloof and frustrated at Drake’s approach. But, when Mysa’s spell works on the body, she’s the one with the weak stomach.

As Mysa’s spell takes time to complete, Levitz switches subplot. First we get a light hearted scene with Garth and Imra on a medical satellite. The dialogue mentions the Daxamite attacks. They both spent a lot of time hanging around space satellites in these years, from Garth’s breakdowns to Imra’s pregnancies.

Then we pick up on last issue, with Duplicate Boy travelling to Earth to confront Gim and Vi. As we get a nice nod to the polymer shield, we see how varied Dupes’ powers are. He simulates Dawny’s abilities and I’m not sure they’ve even met. Do his powers work like Marvel’s Taskmaster, where he only has to watch a holo of them to get them? Or was it a slip? Or have they met? – Question Lad, hanging around the corners of 30th century Hub City. smile

There’s a few posts on why Duplicate Boy and Vi have had such a long distance relationship. That it might have suited them both for various reasons. But Ord is in full jealous super-boyfriend mode. We’ve just seen his powers, so Colossal Boy is out of his power range. Will they fight? Will Vi talk him down? “The cold streets of Future Hub City keep answers warm inside with those that hold their secrets close to their dark hearts.” – Question Lad. We skip back to our field team before finding out.

The spell has been too much for Mysa who has fainted. This is a convenient limit to her power. But it’s consistent with her overexertion in the GDS. Her sister Nura collapses before she can tell others her visions, while Mysa collapses after using hers. With the spell caster out of action and Dawny throwing up, Wildfire takes Blok out to investigate the murder. The team is reduced to a duo a little too readily, plot wise. There’s no reason why a queasy Dawny couldn’t look after Mysa or catch up more quickly. There is comedy in this scene, even as they stand over the body of a murder victim.

That comedy/drama continues as an explosion threatens to wreck the central cavern Blok and Drake investigate first. Lives are at stake, but as Wildfire leaves his suit to better blast the debris, his costume falls on Blok’s head. Wildfire is tough on Blok, but the rocky Legionnaire is quite competent every step of his own way. As the miners continue to give no straight answers to the source of their plight, Wildfire takes any assistance he can get and the two depart on the pointing of one of the residents. It looked like one of the miners was a Resource Raider which is a nice touch.

The Shvaughn/ Jan relationship goes up a notch as they spend some down time together. Jan seems to really hold a grudge against Nura as leader. Yet, Nura keeps making all the right calls. She’s taken a team to Nullport to get post GDS cruisers. It’s this issues equivalent of having half the team saving a remote galaxy as per the Adventure days. But there’s the added plot tie in to getting Cosmic Boy away from Earth thrown in. Likewise, when those remaining go to help Gim, Brainy stays behind to progress the Danielle Foccart subplot. It’s a good use of dialogue, adding a mix of styles to push the stories forward. Jan is still whining when the rest of the mission team depart: E-Lame-ent Lad! ;smile:

Jo seems to share Jan’s view on Dreamy as leader. I wonder who voted for her? In a nice bit of characterisation, it takes Jo a moment to realise what he can do as the new deputy leader. Once the penny drops, he’s off like a shot to the combat. There’s a nice bit of internal monologue reminding the reader that Jo feels he can “handle almost anything solo.” In a post- Superboy book (pretty much) the other Legionnaires, such as Jo and Lar, can fill that gap.

But even Jo realises that an angry Duplicate Boy may be out of his league as he and a similarly giant Colossal Boy wreck the Himalayas. Still, he thinks on his feet (well, in the sky) when in action and realises that if Ord is duplicating Gim’s powers then he won’t be invulnerable. By taking Ord by surprise he manages to knock the hero from Lallor out. There is a suggestion that Ord can duplicate more than one power at a time. But he’s rarely come across as terribly smart, so he probably makes do with one at a time. By leaving the others behind, Levitz gives Jo a little spotlight of his own and we see a number of his powers as he intercedes in visually unusual fight. I note that Jo even tunnels through the earth like a Superboy would at one point, just to reinforce the role that he’s taking up.

Had it been Lar responding to this fight, it would probably have been a more direct confrontation. Lar doesn’t have to worry about Ord duplicating Kryptonian strength as much as Jo does. It makes you wonder if Levitz thinks of this sort of thing when picking his cast. Probably, even though Lar was off on his own Subplot of Foreboding. Perhaps it’s simply that Jo was the only one left smile

With a recovery crew on their way to pick up Duplicate Boy, it’s back to the mining asteroid. Jacques and Dawny have caught up. The four approach what seems to be the source of the disturbances. Dawny once again reminds Drake on how overprotective he’s being. So, that quick reduction in the field team was, in part, really Drake looking for an excuse to get things done without risking the others, especially Dawny. It’s a good combination of traits. Drake is the one who looks after the new guys and promotes them from the Academy. But he’d much rather step in first when in the field. I remember him forcibly removing Dawny from a couple of GDS combats. While he’d probably quite enjoy the plaudits of another Wildfire victory, his ego isn’t the only reason he does things.

As they go down this final tunnel, there’s a shift in the team’s responsibilities. Dawny feels a little claustrophobic, but Wildfire is shut down as he’s about to suggest she retreats. Blok is very focused and correctly notices the change in the rocks (in passing too which was a nice touch). Jacques is aware of everyone’s responsibility as a Legionnaire. Mysa has had a strong moment in this issue. The others prepare for theirs.

A Khundian Challenge Court is a surprise find. The team are immediately drawn into combat against a cybernetically enhanced Khund called Karlak. Dawny is taken out very easily. An enraged Drake attacks only to have his suit destroyed. At first I thought he had been sucked into the Khund’s device, but that turns out not to be the case. Nor is he hanging around as an energy blob. He’s gone somewhere. Jacques can see this place, in the same way he rescued Dawny in the GDS. He leaves to retrieve his colleague leaving Blok to face Karlak alone. Both inflict solid hits. Karlak departs to repair himself. But only after Blok uttered “those who kill Legionnaires frequently suffer before they die.” Now, perhaps Blok knowns something more about what Cos did at the end of last issue, but he spends too much time in the archives to think that is remotely true. There’s still that bit of darkness that comes from Blok. The team is once again reduced to a duo.

Back in the Himalayas, a recovering Duplicate Boy tells Gim “you can have her. She’s not the violet I fell in love with.” Yuck! “You can have her” like she’s property. Duplicating Tool Lad’s powers there were you Ord? Dupes goes straight back to his team on Lallor. Jo comments on Gim’s luck, but he sweetly has his priorities in place. He’s still with the woman he’s fallen for (literally this issue) and that’s the important thing for him.

Tinya considers Gim’s little love spot as “hotel tacky” in a lovely bit of Wazzo snobbery. Jo agrees making me wonder where they raced off to when Jo returned from the dead. smile

And here’s where Levitz gets more points. Shvaughn and Jan have spent a few scenes together. When Jan says that he’s going to get a lift back with her (despite flight ring) it doesn’t seem overly odd. But they’re both concerned about what they saw on Vi’s face. They spotted that Vi was afraid. I hadn’t noticed Jan’s detective prowess before, so it’s a shame that Shvaughn didn’t get to take the lead on this scene as a trained SP officer. They know that something isn’t right.

I don’t really recall how many, if any, hints I picked up from this issue. Ord’s line is on the nose. But I didn’t get it immediately when Brin did the same thing in future issues on Sensor Girl. Violet looking away at Ord’s comment could easily have been a sign of a love that she no longer shared, added to an element of disgust at her former boyfriend’s actions. A dead love can be a lot colder than their mountain setting. The look of relief when he goes could be put down to a super-ex not causing even more trouble. She shares no dialogue with him though. There are no parting comments. But I sat through the Sixth Sense annoyed and wondering why no one spoke to each other before the reveal. So what do I know? Vi looks to keep apart from the others and Gim is only too happy to oblige. Just like at Ayla’s going away party. The issue I have with this is that Vi was on a mission supposedly after the source of events here, and worked well in it. So that always seemed off to me. Worse, it’s Vi calling for help as Jo arrives. She’s tearfully crying for assistance without trying to use her powers. Did she leave her flight ring behind?

Vi is a bystander in this issue. She takes no part in the battle. Sure, it’s between two giants. But Vi was happy to go into ear canals in the GDS (another mission where she was effective after the events that supposedly triggered this scene). She could have flown into Ord’s brain at that size. Other clues are Jo thinking that Vi must have “forgot” to tell Dupes that she had found someone new and, the biggie, saying “who…” as Dupes smashed into the hotel room. Not in surprise, but in response to Gim identifying their assailant as Duplicate Boy. She doesn’t know who Duplicate Boy is.

As Officer Erin and Jan think about what’s transpired, we get a final scene between RJ Brande and a powerless Cham. Reconciled, RJ is willing to help his son try and recover his powers. RJ says that Cham is stuck in the natural shape of a Durlan. I think that would be changed to a degree later to move away from an orange human with antennae look as the basic Durlan form. At least for some survivors of the place anyway. RJ also states he was stuck in the form we see him in now. But he did appear as a Sivana like arms dealer at one point too smile

The next issue panel seems to suggest Jacques will quit the team due to Lotus Fruit addiction! But is a post Ayla Brin involved?!

Hi! I’m Kid Hindsight. Now I could tell that it was obvious where all this was leading. But thoth lad wasn’t so lucky. He read the issues out of order as he got back issues, so probably read the outcome before the leads. He definitely didn’t spot the “who” and the crying for help bits until much later!

It’s another expert balancing act this issue. The main plot weaves through the book, with each natural pause allowing for a scene change. The threat seems low key. Dangerous, but well within the team’s capabilities. Then it escalates, creating its own subplots. It’s pretty much textbook Levitz. Occasionally, the lack of big impact, first act villains would hamper proceedings in the future. But it was new here.

There are some excellent personality complexities shown with ease. I mentioned Drake’s directness and protectiveness combined with ego and caring. I also mentioned Mysa’s quiet determination and thoughtful approach. That’s going to dovetail nicely with next issue. Dawny doesn’t interact much with Blok and Mysa. She prefers Drake’s company, but has no problems putting her point across when she needs to push the mission forward. Jacques gets a depth of belief as his experiences as a Legionnaire run against his background. Levitz doesn’t dwell on this. He just lets the dialogue stand for itself without exposition. Less is more. Like Mysa, he has a determination about his duty. It’s unfortunate that he didn’t get to punch things due to his power subplot. ;smile: If you took out all the other characters, Blok might have got the job done himself. It would have been a lot slower, but he would eventually have got to the challenge court. Blok is almost having his own adventure at a different pace to the others. Levitz does use him as comic relief. But not at the expense of his inner strength.

Wildfire gets a lot of nice visuals this issue. From the “Dawny” in his visor, through crackling anti energy surrounding him, to blasting out of his costume and still using his powers effectively. Blok continues to go through his costume changes. Mysa and Dawny have rarely looked better for me than in these issues. Giffen even adds pockets to Mysa’s cape as she requires ingredients for her spells. On page three the bottom horizontal panel really shows off Mysa’s powers at work, while the right panel highlights that she continues to never touch the ground. The layouts are varied. We have a full page shot of the mining complex. There’s a left-hand panel on page nine that has a direct sequel in the same spot on page ten. Too many Giffen treats to count really – did I mention that nice combo of Dupe’s powers and rage on page six? Or the giants fighting across a mountain range or the horizontal panel on page twelve that allows the reader to track Jo flying at super speed? There’s lots of good work in here and plenty of loose ends that will bring readers back.


"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 18
Fat Cramer #938993 10/17/17 06:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Cramer
Wildfire is reluctant to call Nura for additional help; although he's an accomplished Legionnaire, he too appears to have something to prove. Blok is not so reluctant; with Wildfire vanished and Jacques gone after him, he knows they need help.


I think it's a little bit ego, but a lot to do with his condition and the need to prove to himself that he's still capable, as well as to others.


Originally Posted by Cramer
Kharlak is a dull character, all fight and bluster, not much thinking. He vows to return but I don't recall that he ever appears again.


What's that Nura? He'll be back next issue? Thanks! No, no... I like your leadership and I'd be happy to be deputy...

The challenge court seemed a little bit odd to see in the mine. It was sort of copy and pasted form an earlier issue as they must have thought it looked cool. I just remembered that Kharlak was the guy who appeared when Cham, Brin and Vi went to Khundia, so this is an upgrade for him (#287 - Look It Up Lad) and his own little arc. The Khunds have been recurring threat since the Nullport issue (#285 - Look it up Lad) under Levitz. Fairly generic, but lurking in the background.

Originally Posted by Look It Up Lass' Best Pal, Cramer
Ord’s been through this before (Action #381 "The Hapless Hero"):


Tenz yacks on and on. Seems his mouth has to be doing something all the time. smile


Originally Posted by Cramer
He's caught his girl not out on a date but mostly naked in a hotel room.


It sounds seedy when you type it smile Tinya reminds me that it's not "seedy" it's "tacky".


Originally Posted by Cramer
(If Yera wasn't briefed about Vi's family, boyfriend, favourite colour, etc. before taking her identity, that's very poor planning.)


Yet, she was so effective in earlier missions and knew all about the Legion. The RPG supplement for v4 had lots of celebrity profiles on the team, and we've seen them as stars in this run too. So, it's ahrd to imagine that they wouldn't know lots of things about everyone connected to the team.


Originally Posted by Cramer
His continued sniping about Nura's leadership is unbecoming...


I liked him a lot more when he was a sociopath. I blame Officer Erin for this change!


Originally Posted by Cramer
...and I rolled my eyes when he called Shvaughn "my little lady detective"quote]

Wait until he calls her his "Cute Little Columbo" a few issues from now! smile


[quote=Cramer] The last page sets up the next chapter for Reep, with his intention to return to Durla. We learn from RJ that this is likely to be dangerous and so are promised a story with some complications rather than a “Zap! Your powers are back” solution. ”


It's going to be odd when there isn't a little page of Cham subplots in the future. It would have been fun if he always had something on the go. You now have your powers back Reep, but they're not your powers. They have been corrupted and now you must travel to...


Originally Posted by Cramer
That cover – there's a term for that sort of "seen through the legs of the villain"; cover but I don'tt recall it.


I went with "through the legs" too. If we all call it that, it will become it's real name. smile



"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 18
Future #938995 10/17/17 08:35 PM
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298:

"The Edge of Nowhere" has two main story lines, one I like while the other is meh.

The one I like is the showdown between Duplicate Boy and Colossal Boy. Ever since Vi and Gim became a couple, I'd been wondering what happened to Dupe, and it was nice to see he wasn't forgotten. In typical jilted lover fashion, he comes gunning for Gim, and their showdown is spectacular. It must be said that this was still the early '80s, so an explicit sex scene (or even an "implied" explicit sex scene) was still pretty risque. Vi is almost nude (her breast-covering, which doesn't connect in the back, certainly creates this impression that she is nude), and she and Gim seem to be sharing quarters. There's enough ambiguity--they could be just lounging around together--to keep the censors happy, but older fans knew what's what.

I also like it that the fight wasn't prolonged. Once Jo shows up and does an under-the-hill toppling of Dupe, the battle ends. When he wakes, Dupe doesn't have it in him to continue; he announces he's no longer interested in Vi. At the time, I read this scene as indicating that he realized Vi loved Gim. But "Vi" truly isn't the woman he fell in love with. What's still unclear to me is whether or not he knew she was an impostor. (When the real Vi confronts him later, she implies that he did, IIRC.) In any case, Vi's passivity and crying out in fear certainly indicate she's changed from the woman with whom he had maintained a long-distance relationship all those years.

The big pay-off comes when Jan and Shvaughn discover they've observed also something wrong with Vi. I loved this bit of detective work on their part. It adds a dimension to Jan's personality since he was not previously known for his detective skills and also helps redeem him from being "Still Whining About Nura's Victory" Lad.

When I first read this story, I was not an astute observer of human behavior (not that I am now), so I didn't pick up on anything wrong with Violet's behavior, other than a rather stereotypical portrayal of a female tha would have been more common in the '60s. In hindsight, she behaves in very un-Legionnaire-like ways. She does not join the fight. She does not even call Duplicate Boy by name (and the "who" is very telling). We can wonder at the inconsistencies in Vi/Yera as depicted so far--she didn't show fear at all during GDS or while being stranded on an asteroid, or that her briefing should have included info on the real Violet's relationships--but I think it's brilliant how Levitz wove in these subtle character anomalies. If we need an explanation, let's recall that Yera is an actress, someone used to subsuming her own personality into whatever role she's playing. Now that she's found happiness, her guard is down and we see her real personality for the first time.

The meh story line is the cover story. It sounds like a good idea--give the five newest Legionnaires a mission of their own without senior Legionnaires to shepherd them. However, the plot feels forced, with Drake behaving as more of an impulsive jerk than usual, and the others more or less getting in their two seconds of fame. A few good character bits emerge--Jacques expresses his religious or spiritual beliefs over desecrating a corpse, Dawny is tough as nails until she throws up, and Mysa reminds us that magic isn't a quick and easy fix but gets the job done. But the plot relies heavily on convenience--leaving Legionnaires behind to recover/watch over those who recover, Mysa needing more time to recover, Dawny being taken out of action too soon. Then there's the revelation that one-note villain Karlak is behind the mystery--really, does every minor villain need a return engagement? This all seems anti-climatic, even the disappearance of Wildfire and Invisible Kid just prolongs an arc that shouldn't be prolonged. Only Blok really shines here. He maintains his calm no matter how his teammates treat him. He holds his own in battle and even makes a death-threat against the Khund. (I wouldn't read too much into this; he knows Khund culture is based on fighting and death and tries to psych out his opponent.) Blok also recognizes he and others are in over their heads and that it's time to call for assistance.

298 also includes a number of humorous bits. My favorite is the scene with Garth and Imra on Medicus One. It reads like an Abbot and Costello routine.



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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 18
Future #939010 10/18/17 05:41 AM
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I'm sure she was briefed on Duplicate Boy, but also that it was a long distance relationship and she wouldn't need to worry much about it (after all she was only replacing her temporarily, and presumably he knew if Violet went under cover voluntarily). The "Who?" is likely more a surprise than anything. I could be given someone's picture and told who they were, but when they violently burst in, startle me, and I've never seen them in person before, some confusion makes sense. We'll get into this a whole lot more later on, but while it's on the surface a fun little mystery, in hindsight, no one involved comes off as particularly bright.

Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 18
Future #939019 10/18/17 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Dave
This is the single best issue of Legion of Super-Heroes of all time. Very best. All time. Period (times infinity).


Dave: … and I’ve checked! All of the universes! And it’s still the best! I know! For I am Infinite Hackett Man!

LW: uh-oh!

Originally Posted by Dave
I loved this issue. I read this issue cover to cover. Many times. In fact, so many times that I actually detached said cover and eventually had to pick up a second copy. I had Paul Levitz sign that copy, and have a picture of he and I holding it with me beaming and him smiling politely.


Great to hear about how much this issue means to you, and how well loved it was.

Originally Posted by Dave
I like this issue so much i even went out and bought the Amethyst series they were hawking in the middle of the book.


“But you need help” was going to be my jokey response, but my hypocrite alarm went off reminding me that I picked up Lords of the Ultrarealm with issue #4 and thought it was super. Broderick (Legion connection!) art as it turns out. smile

Did you like Amethyst, Dave?

Originally Posted by Dave
I liked the interaction of the newbie team (as I stated last issue stacked with my favourites). They didn't have a standard team dynamic which was refreshing and fun.


Good point. Their time together here helped define a lot of their characters rather than this being an interpretation of older characters. Each of them have managed to stand out so far. (I was going to say it was a blank canvas, but Rokk just starts crying about his horrible future when I mention canvas.)

Originally Posted by Dave
They mostly get their asses kicked, which was unexpected but made the issue better (even thoguh pre-teen me always wanted to see Wildfire kicking butt).


There’s a balance with Wildfire. If his suit gets damaged too frequently it becomes his Kryptonite. If he really lets loose with all of his power, as seen in his first appearance, then he could overly dominate. Seeing him freed from his suit, and still blasting things, was a good extension of his powers without him being able to destroy everything in sight.

Originally Posted by Dave
I think there was a lot to explore with Blok adjusting to life and culture with fleshy-folk.


I’d get the feeling that Blok would be establishing his rocky background in these issues, distancing himself from the indication he had been transformed by the Dark Man.

Originally Posted by Dave
I think it's because the big splash page happens right before the Amethyst insert in the original or at the very least you had to turn the page after the splash (someone correct me if I'm wrong).


That’s the way my staples are placed (which will soon become a catchphrase! smile )

Originally Posted by Dave
I like that underdog Gim gets the girl while the bully goes home, but obviously things are being set up and you get the feeling it's not going to be that happy an ending for the guy. Still younger me was pulling for him.


Gim does well for himself here. He stands up to Dupes who, as Jo found out, isn’t using more than one power.

Originally Posted by Dave
I didn't pick up when I was younger that the "Earth custom" Gim is talking about is a honeymoon, meaning they are already married, which is revealed at the end of a later issue, which explains why we never saw the wedding.


Nice spot! Scoots back to the issue.... Are we sure the “Earth Custom” isn’t a Dirty Weekend? smile Was it a spur of the moment things as Gim couldn’t believe his luck? While “Vi” may have had darker reasons for agreeing it doesn’t seem likely considering her recent actions. Likewise, I don’t think she would have popped the question. While comic scenes cut off just at a reveal, or a big hint, it’s a little tough to imagine a clearly conflicting Vi not owning up. Surely Gim wasn’t so luvved up that he didn’t notice all those sad, worried looks. No, actually I can believe he was.

Originally Posted by Dave
The doctor covering for Gym'll looks like a nice guy. Nothing nefarious could be happening there at all.


Like Gim, the replacement Doctor couldn’t believe his luck when he saw Garth on his caseload for the day.

Originally Posted by Harbinger
…bit still it was an amazing image to have for the equality of the future.


This is not your parents Adventure Legion!

Originally Posted by Harbinger
Gim and Vi's story kind of passed me by as I didn't know the characters backstory.


I probably saw a lot of the end before reading these issues. Not that they dwelt on it much.

Originally Posted by Harbinger
The gentle romance between Jan and Shvaugn was rather sweet.

I agree. It was nicely done and in a way that didn’t have Shvaugn falling over him instantly or Jan being anything like Brin/Cos or Val.

Originally Posted by Harbinger
And I liked Block's pyjamas.


Yeah, they…um…rock. smile

Originally Posted by HWW
Vi is almost nude (her breast-covering, which doesn't connect in the back, certainly creates this impression that she is nude)


Surely the hotel was just celebrating Winath Day?!

Originally Posted by HWW
… and she and Gim seem to be sharing quarters.


You are right. They are both Hussies! smile

Originally Posted by HWW
There's enough ambiguity--they could be just lounging around together--to keep the censors happy, but older fans knew what's what.


Gah! I’m reminded of Shooter’s comments about his Legion. Putting the Adult into Adult Legion. scream

Originally Posted by HWW
What's still unclear to me is whether or not he knew she was an impostor. (When the real Vi confronts him later, she implies that he did, IIRC.)


We’ll see. I thought that she had a go at him because he knew she had changed but let his ego get in the way of asking why things had altered.

Originally Posted by HWW
In any case, Vi's passivity and crying out in fear certainly indicate she's changed from the woman with whom he had maintained a long-distance relationship all those years.


As it was so long distance, Vi should have lined up everyone on the team and thumped them. They all must have spent more time with her than Dupes.

Originally Posted by HWW
The big pay-off comes when Jan and Shvaughn discover they've observed also something wrong with Vi. I loved this bit of detective work on their part. It adds a dimension to Jan's personality since he was not previously known for his detective skills and also helps redeem him from being "Still Whining About Nura's Victory" Lad.


A scenario just perfect for a certain Durlan, and he’s off having his own subplot. Actually, Reep had just come back. Could an alternative have been for a nonpowered Durlan to do some digging, since he would have been out of the Legion? Vi was with him in the espionage squad, so there’s that link between them too. Reep could have uncovered the plot, leading into getting his powers back and to the perpetrators.

For me, it says how lacking Jan’s personality was that he’s suddenly Super Observant. He’s not alone in that considering how far a few of the others have come along in recent issues. But it’s why I have fun with my Jan-as-Sociopath comments. He could have been anything at this stage smile

Originally Posted by HWW
We can wonder at the inconsistencies in Vi/Yera as depicted so far--she didn't show fear at all during GDS or while being stranded on an asteroid, or that her briefing should have included info on the real Violet's relationships--but I think it's brilliant how Levitz wove in these subtle character anomalies.


I agree, but I always think the plot seems shaky because of how well “Vi” settled into missions before the most recent stories. As I mentioned above conversation in comics ends when the scene does. So there’s a suspension of disbelief that allows us to think that the character didn’t interact with anyone until the next scene that they appear in.

Originally Posted by HWW
If we need an explanation, let's recall that Yera is an actress, someone used to subsuming her own personality into whatever role she's playing. Now that she's found happiness, her guard is down and we see her real personality for the first time.


She must be having a lot of doubts about the people that sent her here by now. Particularly as she wasn’t one of them. Rokk is the Trapper! Sorry. Another example of me getting ahead of myself smile

Originally Posted by HWW
The meh story line is the cover story. It sounds like a good idea--give the five newest Legionnaires a mission of their own without senior Legionnaires to shepherd them.


I think it’s a lot better than the Regulus one in the Baxter series smile

Originally Posted by HWW
But the plot relies heavily on convenience--leaving Legionnaires behind to recover/watch over those who recover


Yups, it was reduced to two very quickly for my liking. They could have at least split up to find out who was behind the Haunted Mine! Why it was Dr. Mayavale! And he’d have gotten away with it if it hadn’t have been for those Legion kids! smile

Originally Posted by HWW
Then there's the revelation that one-note villain Karlak is behind the mystery--really, does every minor villain need a return engagement?


I was thinking he was just part of this so hopefully more next issue. It would be quite the coincidence to have him just happen to encounter the Legion considering how many Khunds there are.

Originally Posted by HWW
This all seems anti-climatic, even the disappearance of Wildfire and Invisible Kid just prolongs an arc that shouldn't be prolonged.


That’s interesting. I was thinking the departure of Ayla went on a little longer than necessary. And Cham seems to have his own mini series within the book. Will that outstay its welcome?

Originally Posted by HWW
Only Blok really shines here.


Flashing his Strata smile

Originally Posted by HWW
(I wouldn't read too much into this; he knows Khund culture is based on fighting and death and tries to psych out his opponent.)


The thought of Blok psyching out opponents is not one I thought I’d hear. smile But he does have a great issue where he does things his own way.

Originally Posted by HWW
298 also includes a number of humorous bits. My favorite is the scene with Garth and Imra on Medicus One. It reads like an Abbot and Costello routine.


I thought Imra was more of a Stooges fan, tweaking it to “Why, you oughta…” smile


Originally Posted by Dave
I'm sure she was briefed on Duplicate Boy,…


While being well practiced in debriefing Gim. smile

Originally Posted by Dave
…but also that it was a long distance relationship and she wouldn't need to worry much about it (after all she was only replacing her temporarily, and presumably he knew if Violet went under cover voluntarily). The "Who?" is likely more a surprise than anything. I could be given someone's picture and told who they were, but when they violently burst in, startle me, and I've never seen them in person before, some confusion makes sense.


I was wondering if the relationship was so long distance that not many people knew anything about it. So, it didn’t make the briefing. How well known are the Heroes of Lallor? It’s near Khundian territory I think, and they don’t appear often. But I’ve certainly seen plenty of “Who?” remarks when walls are smashed through in comics, regardless of who it is that comes through.

Originally Posted by Dave
We'll get into this a whole lot more later on, but while it's on the surface a fun little mystery, in hindsight, no one involved comes off as particularly bright.


Perhaps Blok! I just wanted to type that. smile


"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 18
Dave Hackett #939044 10/18/17 06:56 PM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 24,141
Not much between despair and ecstacy
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Not much between despair and ecstacy
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Originally Posted by Dave Hackett
I'm sure she was briefed on Duplicate Boy, but also that it was a long distance relationship and she wouldn't need to worry much about it (after all she was only replacing her temporarily, and presumably he knew if Violet went under cover voluntarily). The "Who?" is likely more a surprise than anything. I could be given someone's picture and told who they were, but when they violently burst in, startle me, and I've never seen them in person before, some confusion makes sense. We'll get into this a whole lot more later on, but while it's on the surface a fun little mystery, in hindsight, no one involved comes off as particularly bright.


This explanation makes perfect sense.

Originally Posted by thoth
A scenario just perfect for a certain Durlan, and he’s off having his own subplot. Actually, Reep had just come back. Could an alternative have been for a nonpowered Durlan to do some digging, since he would have been out of the Legion? Vi was with him in the espionage squad, so there’s that link between them too. Reep could have uncovered the plot, leading into getting his powers back and to the perpetrators.


I'm just as glad that it was Jan who picked up on the details. Surely more than one Legionnaire has good observation skills, just as more than one must be a good pilot, a good navigator, a good autochef cook (not Garth), etc.

Good point about Reep and Vi serving on the Espionage Squad, but Jan and Vi have also served together for a very long time, and an observant teammate would get to know all of his colleagues very well. Perhaps it's that quality which led Jan to being perpetually elected deputy leader.

You're right about his personality being so ill-defined to this point. One of the fascinating aspects of the Levitz run is watching Jan come into his own as a character.

Originally Posted by thoth
I think it’s a lot better than the Regulus one in the Baxter series smile


Could be, but meh is still meh in my opinion.

As an aside, one of my teacher colleagues once had a student who asked her to bump his grade up to an F+. I guess "meh" doesn't sound so bad if something is lower on the meh scale. smile


Check out my new Power Club website!

The Semi-Great Gildersleeve - writing, super-heroes, and this 'n' that
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 18
Future #939393 10/24/17 03:59 AM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 16,853
Time Trapper
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LSH #299 Two Invisible Kids are Deader than One! or Not a Ghost of a Chance! by Paul Levitz & Keith Giffen, Mahlstedt finisher, colors by Gafford, letters by Costanza

[Linked Image]

Invisible Kid appears in a strange world after following what he thought was Wildfire’s energy. He is attacked by a giant creature then spit out; despite his fear and regret, he is determined to save Wildfire.

On the asteroid, Mysa casts a spell of association using Wildfire’s suit to try and find him; she can only determine, after much effort, that he and Jacques are not on the asteroid but on some other plane of existence. Dawnstar derides her for both her theatrics and her failure, then criticizes Blok for not calling for help sooner.

Kharlak then appears and sends Blok plunging into a hole. Dawnstar then attacks, demanding to know what happened to Wildfire; Kharlak knocks her out but must face Blok again. He brings Blok down and decides to search for Mysa.

At Legion HQ, Jan and Shvaughn play scrabble, and she points out that he’s only creating insult words directed at Nura. He denies this and claims that he’s worried about what he saw in Violet’s eyes. Shvaughn suggests he’s looking in the wrong woman’s eyes.

Duplicate Boy returns to Weber’s World and his team. He’s grumpy and wants to return to Lallor immediately, not taking the time to greet Ontiir, the new SP Commissioner for the planet. As they depart, Ontiir thanks them for their help, then reports to someone he calls “Your Majesty”, who commends him as an excellent slave.

In the strange realm, Jacques finds Wildfire, but in his human form, dressed as a pasha and surrounded by women. He doesn’t recognize Drake. Jacques claims that this place is not fit for humans and they should return to help the team, but Drake wants to remain and stay human.

Kharlak meets Mysa, threatens her and finds his blaster turned to flowers, then all of his circuitry shorted by a spell. Blok and Dawnstar look on, dumbfounded; even Dawnstar is impressed. Suddenly, a great Khund battleship appears overhead.

On Medicus One, Imra frets as Garth is put through a lengthy examination. Dr. Larsh has some secret plan for Garth.

Jacques refuses to let Wildfire remain, knocks him out and carries him away. He is surprised to come face to face with the original Invisible Kid, Lyle Norg. Lyle explains that he had been seeing Myla, a ghost girl who lived in this dimension; when Validus killed him, Lyle wound up here, but no Myla. He demands that Jacques take him back to the land of the living. Jacques refuses; Lyle attacks and threatens to kill him, but stops, apologizes and walks off.

Jacques wonders if he has gone mad or if Lyle is a ghost in hell. He realizes that he has more than invisibility power but is baffled as to what he can do. He concentrates and tries to will himself back to the asteroid, but appears surrounded by wizards on Orando. Projectra greets him and claims that he is a sign that she may marry a commoner. Jacques tells her that Wildfire is the energy with him, then passes out.

Blok and Dawnstar try to fight the attacking Khund ship, without success. Mysa is unable to help, which annoys Dawnstar. Dawnstar senses something approaching and leads the Khund ship towards it, but she is blasted by a shock wave. Aboard the ship, the Warlord is told that five unidentified vessels are closing in; the Warlord realizes they must be Legionnaires. The five Legion ships mount an attack coordinated by Nura and bring the Khund ship down. Blok muses about the Khunds’ belligerance as Mysa alerts him that Dawnstar needs help.

On the Science Asteroid, Mon-el speaks with Queeg about what he assumes was a minor skirmish with between Khunds and Legionnaires on Asteroid 73-Q. Queeg departs to check the security system and Shady appears with a new, white-skinned look and says he can call her Shadow Woman.

Comments:

The star scene in this story is Mysa’s defeat of Kharlak and her calm, self-satisfied smile. She’s a strange character thus far: wielding immense power at one moment, apologetic or passing out at another time. It’s fitting that she and her magic should be mysterious.

Jacques shows that he has a strong sense of what’s right and wrong. He doesn’t understand where he is, but knows that it’s not where living beings should remain. He knows that Wildfire doesn’t belong there despite Drake’s apparent happiness. He stays focused on his mission and his role as a Legionnaire while plunged into a confusing unreality. His arrival on Orando during the seance is a convenient device for moving the Projectra-Val story along while making sense, in a mystical realm sort of way.

Even in that hell, Lyle Norg remains true to the Legion Code. He, like Rokk, wants to kill in the heat of the moment, but comes to his senses and backs off.

Dawnstar is having a bad day, repeatedly beat up and sniping at Mysa.

Nura once again displays her hands-on leadership, coordinating the attack on the Khund ship. None of the team with her shows any resentment to her orders.

Jan, however, is still stewing in resentment. Since the simple games of the 20th century don’t take his mind off of Nura – or Violet - Shvaughn ups the ante and suggests he look in her eyes. I’m starting to wonder how long this chip will be on Jan’s shoulder.

Two new mysterious and devious characters emerge: Ontiir and Dr. Larsh. Both appear to be up to no good. A third deadly premonition appears as Tasmia, for some unfathomable reason, has coloured her skin white and taken the name Shadow Woman. Will the Adult Legion story’s prophecy be fulfilled by Levitz & Giffen?

The cover was confusing. I guess that’s supposed to be Drake Burroughs in whose hand the two Invisible Kids clash, but my first thought was Nemesis Kid.


Holy Cats of Egypt!
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 18
Future #939423 10/24/17 01:38 PM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 31,439
Tempus Fugitive
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LoSH 299

The cover provides us with a few story layers. We have the surprise of seeing Lyle Norg on the cover about to confront Jacques. While Lyle’s body was retrieved by the Legionnaires following his death at the hand on Validus, his ghostly relationship with Myla beforehand always left an element of possible communication to him. With no previews back in the day (unless it was given away in fan mags) this must have been quite startling.

Both Invisible Kids are literally in the hand of a giant puppet master. His evil expression doesn’t bode well for either of them. The background has a psychedelic look about it. Does this mean that the puppet master is manipulating Jacques? Or Both Kids? Both are using their powers, so each looks as real, or as ghostly, as the other.

Even now, I still think the villain on the cover is Nemesis Kid. I must have read this one after the start of the Baxter series. Even noticing the distinctive shoulders on the outfit now, I still think it’s going to be Nemesis Kid.

A splash page shows Jacques in an organic, alien landscape. Giffen has gone to some length to make it strange. I must be so used to him doing this, that it doesn’t stand out more than it should. Jacques looks to have been working out a lot before this scene. He’s put on a few pounds too. In v4 Jacques was one of those who didn’t really have a great exercise regime, and it’s something I’d have liked to have seen develop over time. Jacques got powers through circumstance, and it would have been nice to see a different lifestyle affect how he went about things.

The environment is certainly hostile. The last time a Legion character was eaten by a giant plant (ah, comics) was Weight Wizard back in Nardo’s prison planet. Jacques should could himself very lucky indeed to escape here so easily. I like to think it’s because of the nature of the place as we’ll discover later. But a bit of me still thinks it should have been a quick end to a promising Legion career. smile I guess Drake wouldn’t have got back either, although Dawny might have got him eventually. There’s also a Groo crossover in the sound effects smile Jacques’ internal monologues have never really appealed to me. It’s always too heavy on the exposition. That’s certainly the case where he’s having a little internal chat while being eaten by the plant.

Mysa, Blok and Dawny try to locate their colleagues, having recovered from their encounter with Kharlak last issue. Their characterisations continue smoothly under Levitz. Mysa is never certain that she will succeed, but is quietly determined to give everything to try. Blok is always supportive of her methods. Dawny is a little aloof and critical. But that criticism deserves a closer look. Mysa is essentially taking her role as a Legionnaire here. If Mysa finds their missing colleagues then she could continue to do so in the future. More so, as Dawny has already clearly tried to find them without success. Mysa’s spell requires meditation and comes with special effects. Dawny’s approach is direct and quick by comparison. So, her insecurity results in the comment about Mysa being too theatrical. When Mysa confirms that Jacques and Drake are not on the asteroid, Dawny is pretty much saying to them that she shouldn’t have tried after the expert had told them they weren’t there. But Mysa almost succeeds, and that perhaps draws out a further critical comment about Blok. Dawny is the odd one out here, with Blok fighting Mysa’s corner. Blok, as mentioned last issue, works at his own pace, and this is brought out well by his response to having new information about the threat their friends face.

The trio face a threat of their own as Kharlak returns. He did say he would, and he’s a villain of his word smile But he practically teleports in. It makes you wonder why the Khunds don’t use this technology more effectively elsewhere in Legion stories. It’s a shame that Dawny didn’t try and track the villain too. She might have noticed his approach that way. That’s just one aspect of Dawny’s power that the Legion could really make a lot of use of…but don’t as it really interferes with plotting.

Having fought to a standstill, or with Blok just having the edge, last issue Kharlak simply blows the floor out from the Dryad hero. Mysa and Dawny are conveniently stunned allowing for Kharlak to face his foes one by one. Hey, it works for the heroes against Ninja hordes, it’s only fair it should work the other way too. smile

The inference is that it’s going to take Blok a while to get out of the hole. I know he’s not great with a flight ring, but he can just fly out of there if he wants. Dawny is quick to recover, but she’s easily beaten by the Khund. There’s pros and cons to this. She wants to get Kharlak away from her teammates, one of whom is unconscious. She also wants to get information from the villain. She’s not going to be able to effectively use her powers if she wants to learn anything. That allows Kharlak to stun her, and then knock her out. We see that Dawny is not only very fast, but also a hint of her resilience. To have walked away after some hefty blows shows that she’s more than human. On the other hand, the villain’s “you surely threaten me least!” is a throwback to the Adventure days when Chuck, Lu, Tenz and Nura would have lots of doubts about their power levels. Despite having loads of potential, Dawny wouldn’t really have the best of times in this, or many other, volumes.

Once Blok climbs out of the hole, he too is beaten. Kharlak is a trained warrior of the challenge courts. Blok is just dense and strong with little formal training. We learn that Blok is “as the primal force made me” showing another remove from his origin where he had seemingly been transformed. It also gives a Lost Legion Tales link to Primal Force, a DC team of the 20th century – who just happened to have a member called Golem! smile I wonder how Blok’s physiology works. He can be knocked out, for example, so does he essentially have the same internal structure as the others?

As the Khund moves off to find Mysa, we switch to Legion HQ where the relationship between Jan and Shvaughn really takes a step forward. Jan is still moaning about Nura being leader. Deputy Jan (well formerly) still thinks about the missions the team are on, showing he’s just the right sort of guy for a leader’s role.
He’s also distracted by what’s going on with Vi. With not much of a private life, no leadership role and a mystery to work on together, Jan and Legion liaison Shvaughn have been spending a lot of time together.

I really like this scene. Poor Jan is so caught up in his internal world, he doesn’t see the giant signs in front of him. Fortunately for him, Shvaughn is able to make the first move. Jan’s deer in headlights response sums up his ability with relationships perfectly, and provides a light hearted and warm end to the scene.


The mission monitor board showing Duplicate Boy’s return to Webers World provides both a link to the Vi plot Jan has just talked about and also to an upcoming plot with sneaky Ontiir reporting to a “Majesty” who seems to like a shade of green. For me, it’s another reminder of the creepy monitoring technology available. I’ve always liked the duplicitous Ontiir, pushing those boundaries and infuriating every side’s sense of diplomacy.

Jacques encounters a reformed human looking Drake Burroughs in this strange realm. Drake has created his own little Arabian themed palace. It’s complete with scantily clad females, which shows how frustrating a lot of his energy-form life must have been. The loneliness is something Drake reminds Jacques of when the latter wishes to take him back to fight Kharlak. Drake wants to stay there, where he’s human again. It’s not that he doesn’t care for the others, it’s just that this could well be his last chance to feel anything again.

When Jacques was faced with Mysa’s workings, he felt it was almost sacrilegious. As much as he feels Drake’s assistance is needed against the Khund, Jacques has taken an instant dislike to this place, and by extension his expanded powers He has decided that the twisting realm is not a fit place, and therefore decides that Drake should be brought back.

As Jacques thinks of a way to return, Kharlak has found Mysa. Except that it doesn’t exactly go to plan. He’s had quite a bit of success with the others, but he’s not faced anyone like the White Witch.

This is one of the better fight scenes in comics and follows the theme of a high noon gunfight indicated on last issue’s cover. Mysa is prepared, and she dispatches Kharlak quickly with powers we’ve seen her use already. It’s sometimes easy to think of Mysa as a new Legionniare, without remembering the assistance and conflict she’s already had with the team. She’s a force to be reckoned with as Blok and Dawny both realise when they look down at the unconscious foe who beat them.

Blok is super quick with a compliment to Mysa, but again his moment is interrupted by the arrival of a gian Khund battle cruiser. The threat has escalated from a single man to a horde. To Levitz’s credit, Mysa works within her set boundaries and she’s not prepared for this. It gives Dawny a chance to shine.

Or it would if Levitz didn’t get a little too carried away with the quick cut. It’s one thing to build it into reasonable time gaps in other subplots. Considering the reaction time of the ship and Dawny, the sense of threat evaporates as we jump to not one, but two other subplots. Firstly, a single page tells us that Lightning Lad’s examination by Doctor Larsh is taking quite a while, with both Imra and Garth getting impatient. I’m sure everything’s above board unlike every other time Garth has been near a Doctor. It’s another issue with them on a satellite.

Then we jump back to Jacques who has arbitrarily decided Drake’s future, punches him out, and takes him towards a handy shining portal. Before he can enter, he’s confronted with the first Legion clubhouse (or a Fortress Lad cameo smile ), and then by Lyle Norg. This Lyle knows his past, including Myla. His emotions seem to shift with the twisting landscape. At first heroic, then tearful, confused, angry, enraged and finally despairing. Is he part of this shifting world? Is he insane? Well, the key emotion shifts are caused by Jacques’ reaction to seeing his predecessor. It ties in with his steadfast belief system. Mysa works dark magic, this world is an unfit wasteland and, since he knows Lyle to be dead, then this Lyle must be supernatural. Jacques states confusion, but he’s already made up his mind that Lyle is not real. Jacques is sure of his own identity and beliefs. Therefore, Lyle is a mirage. That didn’t go down well with a man who feels he has been trapped alone for years, led there by a lie. No wonder Lyle got upset. Only after a brief fight broken off by a distraught Lyle, does Jacques wonder. Perhaps it was the solidity of the punches. If it was the loneliness of Lyle, then Jacques certainly doesn’t apply that to Drake. He still drags Wildfire off through the portal, never bothering to go after Lyle.

The pair return, not to the asteroid, but link in very nicely to the Val/Jeckie relationship. The arriving Legionnaires are seen as an omen that it’s fine to marry not only a former hero, or an offworlder... but a… >gasp< commoner! I note that it’s Jeckie who informs the others of the interpretation and that none would dare argue. Nice to see Jeckie looking every bit the monarch.

Finally we get back to Dawnstar. We’ve missed her immediate reaction to the Khund attack, but drop in as she’s evading fire form the battleship. She’s diverts fire from her comrades who don’t really have the range or spells handy to cause any damage. Dawny thinks quickly and, when sensing approaching Legionnaires, draws the Khunds towards them. It’s supposed to be a good scene for Dawny, but she’s knocked out by a near miss and it’s painfully obvious that she needs some equipment to make her more effective. Years later, Giffen would give everyone loads of equipment filled pockets. Earlier we’d seen a huge Legion armoury. Dawny would certainly have benefitted from either of those on a regular basis.

Thom, Cos, Dirk and Brin make short work of the Khundian ship, working under the well-executed plan of Nura. Cosmic Boy is pleased to work off some frustration following the fireballing incident. These guys are among the heavy hitters of the Legion, their powers having developed over years. I’d not have fancied Kharlak’s chances against any of them. The new guys are more varied, but fit more with those whose make the most of the abilities they have. With Mysa learning which spells to have to hand in the Legion, Jacques’ powers having broader scope and an ongoing visual change for Blok, these guys look set to also develop over time.

The final page shows a relaxed and undisturbed Lar telling his host about the Legion’s work elsewhere on the archipelago. Shady interrupts him, bringing her long costume change subplot to the reveal that it’s the same one we saw on the cover of Adventure Comics 354, complete with skin tone change. There’s something off about a character who was originally intended to be black “whiting up”

So, even while plotting the Great Darkness Saga, the creative team were looking to reveal whether the Adult Legion stories would come to pass. That’s quite a subtle, impressive build up over a number of issues.

There are a number of positives in the issue, including the Giffen/Mahstedt art. We see how Blok, Mysa, Jacques and Dawny interact and it brings out characterisation in them all. They all have their flaws. Dawny is aloof and critical (sometimes in emotional self defence); Blok is partisan and follows his own path and timescale and Jacques lets his background beliefs strongly skew his judgement (as do we all).

The Legion powerhouses have traditionally been of one type. Superboy, Supergirl, Mon El, Ultra Boy and Star Boy all share or have shared similar powersets with a few variations. Mysa brings a different skillset to the team, and can be just as effective. I thought it was very telling shift in her when she went out to face Kharlak. She had a confident smirk and purple eyes. It was also the first time we’ve seen her feet touch the ground. I don’t think that was coincidence. With the TPB Curse hint in mind, I think this is Mysa having to literally step down into the real world which will change her.

We’ve known about Wildfire’s flaws for a long time. Here, he finally gets what he must have ever have thought he’d never have again. A “real” body with all the senses. No longer does he have to interact vicariously through a suit. I thought his reactions were very well done. At least some of his annoying personality looks to really have been Drake Burroughs rather than an outcome of being trapped in the suit.

Drake is a strong individual. To have emotionally survived through his trauma, he’d have to be. He mentions what it’s been like for him, as part of his argument to stay in this strange world. He doesn’t lose his cool or wallow in self-pity when Jacques argues with him.

Drake spends his life shaping his energy from into his suit and into his powers. His ability to shape this new world so easily shows just how much willpower this takes him every day to remain as human as possible. If they ever look for a new Green Lantern, Drake would be the perfect fit. Lanternfire/ Wild Lantern anyone?

I do think Jacques was completely wrong to bring Drake back, and I’ll be interested to see the consequences of this. This new Invisible Kid has some personality traits that I’m not too fond of. Which really adds to the cast as it builds realistic tension and conflict between characters who are all heroic at heart.

Thinking of flaws, this issue has a few. The basic plot seems to have been forgotten, or lost beneath the character moments. We’ve known for some time that the Khunds were sniffing around this sector of the UP. That’s been well set up. But who actually killed the consul? Who or what actually caused the Earthquakes? Why was a challenge court there in the first place?

A Khund scouting party could have teleported in and started excavating, resulting in some earthquakes. The Consul could have investigated only to be murdered by either the Khunds or a sympathiser on the mining staff. When the Legion investigated, that’s when the challenge court appeared as Kharlak wanted first dibs on them. Any or none of that could be the case as none of it is explained.

Why does Jacques only see other realms when Legionnaires are missing in them? At no point is he haunted by things he can’t explain, only for him to be able to save someone from one of them. When it was Dawny, caught in another dimension, it was a Boom Tube effect that I’ve not seen before or since that trapped her. Jacques doesn’t have a Plot Power. He has a Sub Plot Power. An ability that only exists to give him a subplot to get into.

Finally, would it have hurt to have had Dawny lead the Khundian ship into a trap set by the rest of her team? She’s already been beaten easily twice and had her key power duplicated (Mysa did know that Drake and Jacques weren’t in our dimension). Her personality stood out really well in this story and it’s a shame it will descend into Wildfire clinginess and “My powers have failed” territory.

Giffen uses the long vertical panel to establish a scene, such as the mining complex, Medicus one or the arriving Legion cruisers. I liked the consistent horizontal panels as they fought Kharlak, as they build up nicely to having Dawnstar fly the villain out of the cruiser. It would have had less of an impact if it was just one of a number of irregular panels. The fight choreography was really good throughout, from everything Mysa did, to that panel where we have four Blok fight scenes in one. Jacques taking Drake across a horizontal panel is yet another stand out here. There’s use of panel size of action emphasis in this issue. The Khundian battleship gets panel sizes that weigh down on the rest of the pages that they’re in, emphasising the huge presence it has.


"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 18
Future #939428 10/24/17 02:29 PM
Joined: Sep 2013
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Joined: Sep 2013
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Originally Posted by Cramer
It’s fitting that she and her magic should be mysterious.


I have enjoyed seeing Levitz work at preventing her becoming all powerful, essentially becoming Kid Spectre. I know Giffen likes Doctor Fate (we’ve already seen his costume and helm survive into the 30th century) but having a character so powerful because the writer doesn’t have a grasp on things could unbalance the team. At least the Legion doesn’t have to worry about a rogue Superboy for a while though.

Originally Posted by Cramer
Jacques shows that he has a strong sense of what’s right and wrong. He doesn’t understand where he is, but knows that it’s not where living beings should remain. He knows that Wildfire doesn’t belong there despite Drake’s apparent happiness. He stays focused on his mission and his role as a Legionnaire while plunged into a confusing unreality.


Because why let someone’s happiness get in the way of what you feel is right for them. smile I like the combination of his awe struck introduction to Superboy and his fear at facing Darkseid with his resolve at his new position.

He’s concerned with his duty and about getting back and helping. While it was a very good lead into the Jeckie/ Val subplot, not getting back to the mining complex means that Jacques was unable to help at all. That just leaves Drake having been “rescued” because of Jacques’ opinions.

Besides, Jacques has been a Legionnaire for five minutes. He’s like an annoying new work colleague who has just read a process manual and has yet to see how well it actually works in the real world. smile Brek would have something like this about him later on too.

Originally Posted by Cramer
His arrival on Orando during the seance is a convenient device for moving the Projectra-Val story along while making sense, in a mystical realm sort of way.


I remember Jeckie contacting dead Legionnaires during the Magic Wars, and thought it was a link to this story. That seemed to be suggested in later Levitz stories that connected Jeckie and Jacques.

Originally Posted by Cramer
Even in that hell, Lyle Norg remains true to the Legion Code. He, like Rokk, wants to kill in the heat of the moment, but comes to his senses and backs off.


And he does it without the help of Imra smile Nor does the ghost of Chemical King show up to prevent Lyle doing anything.

Originally Posted by Cramer
Nura once again displays her hands-on leadership, coordinating the attack on the Khund ship. None of the team with her shows any resentment to her orders…Jan, however, is still stewing in resentment. Since the simple games of the 20th century don’t take his mind off of Nura – or Violet - Shvaughn ups the ante and suggests he look in her eyes. I’m starting to wonder how long this chip will be on Jan’s shoulder.


What Nura needs is another issue of using the Legion constitution to get members expelled. This time weeding out the whiners smile Is it a chip on Jan’s shoulder, or is it a Proty pretending to be a chip? Things are never simple in the Legion!

Originally Posted by Cramer
Two new mysterious and devious characters emerge: Ontiir and Dr. Larsh.


I’m reading Dr Larsh as Dr Lash smile

Originally Posted by Cramer
Both appear to be up to no good.


Go Lash! smile

Originally Posted by Cramer
A third deadly premonition appears as Tasmia, for some unfathomable reason, has coloured her skin white and taken the name Shadow Woman. Will the Adult Legion story’s prophecy be fulfilled by Levitz & Giffen?


The next issue blurb seems to think that the readers would know all about this, but I wonder how many had recently jumped on board and wondered what it meant.

Originally Posted by Cramer
The cover was confusing. I guess that’s supposed to be Drake Burroughs in whose hand the two Invisible Kids clash, but my first thought was Nemesis Kid.


Yay! All those years I thought it was just me. Thanks Cramer! smile


"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
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