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#940146 - 11/07/17 12:05 PM Re-reading the Legion: Archives Volume 19  
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Fat Cramer Offline
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Cafť Cramer
Brave and the Bold # 198 Terrorists of the Heart! by Mike W. Barr, art by Chuck Patton & Rick Hoberg, letters Todd Klein, colours Adrienne Roy

[Linked Image]

HWW did a fine recap and review of this issue in his Karate Kid Series review.

Comments:

Karate Kid is the only Legionnaire appearing in this issue. His fight scenes are classic, but his behaviour with Iris is sad. Not deplorable, he really didnít seem to catch on how devoted she was to him. You can just feel the floor falling out from under her as he invites her to his wedding to Jeckie.

Val shouldnít be entirely clueless; she kisses him when he first appears, which does surprise him, but should have been a tip-off. He doesnít do anything to disabuse her, like shake her hand or say heís happy to see an old pal.

Iris is a positive character in this story. Sheís the good samaritan to Katy, warns Batman about an attacker behind him, subdues Katy by herself at the end and, although she totally misread or imagined Valís feelings for her, doesnít hide her emotion, but speaks out and tells him the truth.

The story depends on a number of highly convenient events: Katy is in the shower when Val appears, Pulsar is on the television when Val is looking at it, Katy is on the television when Iris isnít looking at it, Val takes the handkerchief that Katy had left.

The bad guys are revolutionaries, not terrorists (although Val calls them terrorists). My tendency, when writing these notes, was to call them terrorists, which just goes to show how much the public rhetoric has changed in 34 years.

Batman has changed a lot in 34 years as well, a little grim, not very gritty and no stranger to emotions. This was the era when I read Batman comics regularly and it left me a bit nostalgic for that more everyday human version of the Bat. He's had some previous contact with the Legion and willingly works with Val. It does remind me how much I'd like to see a Legion which was inspired by this version of Batman, rather than Superman.

Pulsar meets an ignoble end. The motor within him burns up, and he burns with it. Thereís no follow-up to this; his family is gone and nobody asks about him, let alone mourn him. It's not much of a finish for a guy who graces the issue's cover.

The ending struck me as really abrupt. Iris tells Val off and he just says, ďOkay.Ē and leaves. Then Batman plays agony aunt and tells her sheíll get over it.


Holy Cats of Egypt!
#940151 - 11/07/17 12:58 PM Re: Re-reading the Legion: Archives Volume 19 [Re: Fat Cramer]  
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Dave Hackett Offline
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So does Val, like the cover suggests, wear his high collar costume in this issue? Seems a little odd, because he'd basically abandoned it in his last several Legion appearances to this point.

#940160 - 11/07/17 03:30 PM Re: Re-reading the Legion: Archives Volume 19 [Re: Fat Cramer]  
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thoth lad Offline
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I had a feeling I didn't have this one to hand. I'll take a look to see if I have it in storage, but it will be weekend. Just as well, as I'm sure they had to send a rescue party into my Wall Of Text last week to find people lost in it smile

I recognise the villain from the Karate Kid series. I was just moving some of those out of the way to find another book a few minutes ago.
Also looking forward to the Chuck Patton art.


"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
#940176 - 11/07/17 09:03 PM Re: Re-reading the Legion: Archives Volume 19 [Re: Fat Cramer]  
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He Who Wanders Offline
She ran and called him Wildfire.
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Thanks for linking to my review on the KK thread, FC.

I have nothing new to say about the issue, though I note that I also referred to the Black Heart as a group of terrorists. Organizations of this ilk often think of themselves as revolutionaries, so I'm not sure the terms are mutually exclusive. Perhaps it depends on who you ask.

The ending does seem abrupt, but I guess there was nothing left to say. I would like to have seen Val come to some revelation about how clueless he had been about Iris's feelings or to learn something from the experience, but this doesn't happen. As it is, he comes off as more of a jerk than he should.


Check out my new Power Club website!

The Semi-Great Gildersleeve - writing, super-heroes, and this 'n' that
#940581 - 11/14/17 01:38 AM Re: Re-reading the Legion: Archives Volume 19 [Re: Fat Cramer]  
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Fat Cramer Offline
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Cafť Cramer
LSH #301 Different Paths, Different Dooms by Paul Levitz & Keith Giffen, art by Giffen & Mahlstedt, letters by Costanza, colours by Gafford

[Linked Image]

Reep and R.J. sit among the radiation-infested rubble of Durla, recapping the history that led them to this point. R.J. grumbles about the tribe mentality of Durlans, just as a number of them emerge from the landscape, in a variety of threatening forms.

Val and Jeckie head back to Orando to prepare for their wedding. At Legion HQ, Imra thanks Proty for recording the recent Legion festivities and is reminded that Proteans are now ďsentient potential citizensĒ and Proty II will not be returning to the Super-Pets. She takes the holo to the rec room but the viewing is interrupted by a message from Dream Girl, who appoints Brainy as temporary leader while sheís away to assist with the Daxam refugees. This upsets Deputy Leader Jo, but Thom claims that Nura is within her rights.

Back on Durla, R.J. and Reep are imprisoned in a globe, as the authorities remind them of their duties to the tribe and say they will be forgiven for leaving if they promise to remain. Since Reep refuses, he and R.J., still in the sphere, are thrown into a high-radiation pit which was the site of missiles landing in the Six-Minute War which damaged the planet. R.J. explains that the radiation is intended to take away their powers but will kill them eventually. Reep wonders if Ol-Virís x-ray vision was what caused his power loss and if this radiation might restore him. R.J. smashes the sphere with his ring.

Back at Legion HQ, Shvaughn introduces fellow officer Gigi Cusimano to Jan. Gigi is a bit starstruck; she has done some research which Jan begins to examine. Just then, Dirk comes in and charms Gigi, but is called away to join Brainyís mission.

On Durla, Reep and R.J. have escaped the sphere but must scale high cliffs to leave the pit. Reepís flight ring no longer works, so they climb. Reep fends off an attacking creature as R.J. comments that his money spent on Legion training has paid off. Two SP officers, orbiting above, await a signal to pick up Reep and R.J., baffled why they went to Durla in the first place. Reep and R.J. approach a mysterious structure called The Temple, which radiates heat and should restore their powers. R.J. demures, saying heís used to his body by now and only came along to keep his son company. Reep enters a column of light and appears to be painfully blasted.

Brainy takes a team to Durla since he observed that Reepís flight ring had stopped functioning and suspected trouble. As heís enjoying Karaís company, Brainy issues a course correction after passing Weberís World. Suddenly, ships fire on them, damaging the cruiser. They destroy the attacking ships and Gim grabs one of the attackers, a lizard-like humanoid, then sees another who apologizes for the misunderstanding and reminds them that he is Ontiir of Tsauron, newly appointed as SP Commander of Weberís World. He invites them to Weberís World to ensure that all is well.

On Durla, Reepís powers have returned, but he and R.J. face the authorities anew, who condemn them to death unless they remain with the tribe. Reep refuses and is attacked, but evades his attackers and asks who else wants to challenge him. The First Speaker asks that he remain to help them, but Reep replies that they should accept the help of the United Planets and his home is with the Legion.

At Legion HQ, Blok and Brin receive word from Val that the Legionnaires are invited to his and Jeckieís wedding. Brin is a bit dejected, wondering if he should have let Ayla leave.

Comments:
The main story with Reep and R.J. is primarily interesting for its details about Durla. It also ends with an admonishment to cooperate with the U.P., just as we are introduced to a new storyline involving Weberís World, the administrative source of that potential cooperation.

While the history of Durla is fascinating, Reepís battles with various residents donít strike me as much more than an opportunity to illustrate peculiar monsters.

That R.J. does not want his powers restored shows us another aspect to this character. For such a wealthy person (it appears that he has rebuilt his fortune after it was stolen by President Boltax), who can have any material thing, heís pretty philosophical and content with the status quo. Or did he fear that he might not survive the experience?

Proty II enjoys a few panels along with his new sentient rights. He manages a gentle put-down of Imra (and implicity the other Legionnaires) by reminding her that heís no longer a super-pet.

This issue also introduces Gigi Cusimano. Itís odd to see her initial wide-eyed reaction to meeting Legionnaires, since I remember her as very familiar with the Legion and eventually surpassing Shvaughn in rank.

Dream Girl astonishes in one-panel by bypassing the chain of command and naming Brainy acting leader, leaving Jo out in the cold. Thereís no explanation for this in the Lee Iococca tradition of ďNever complain, never explainĒ management. Iím curious to see if thereís some fallout from this decision in the issues ahead.

Supergirlís still here, which not only pleases Brainy but must give readers some hope (if they like the character) that sheíll be back on the Legion roster for good.

Ontiir is back; last seen communicating to some royal personage and letting the reader know that heís on the other side. The Legionnaires, of course, donít know that, so we have a set-up for trouble ahead. At this point, it appears that Brainyís team is off to Weberís World, forgetting that they were going to rescue Reep.

There's no big cliff hanger in this issue, but if thre's a Legion wedding on the horizon, one expects trouble.

The cover is quite detached from the story; apart from Reep, the other characters don't play a significant role; Mysa and Shady aren't even in the story.


Holy Cats of Egypt!
#940584 - 11/14/17 06:23 AM Re: Re-reading the Legion: Archives Volume 19 [Re: Fat Cramer]  
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Dave Hackett Offline
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Originally Posted by Fat Cramer

The cover is quite detached from the story; apart from Reep, the other characters don't play a significant role; Mysa and Shady aren't even in the story.


The Cover is a direct homage to Adventure #300 (Cham takes Superboy's place in the centre), and also servers to show off the new costume designs for all of these characters.

#940614 - 11/14/17 03:41 PM Re: Re-reading the Legion: Archives Volume 19 [Re: Fat Cramer]  
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thoth lad Offline
Tempus Fugitive
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Touring Bgtzl and Bgztl with M...
LoSH 301

The cover is a reimagining of Adventure Comics #300. I wonder if this was supposed to be the cover for LoSH #300? Although the Legionnaires on the cover have changed, itís faithful in that their poses are the same as the original. The backgrounds are solid tones, and perhaps itís this basic look that put them off making it the anniversary cover. I was going to say that itís as much about capturing new readers as rekindling fond memories in old. But then, the whole of that anniversary issue hinged on old Adventure Comics. smile This issueís cover continues that theme. I donít think Levitz goes as far as to reintroduce Matter Eater Lad in a couple of issues though. smile

In Adventure 300 we had Sun Boy, Saturn Girl, Cosmic Boy, Lightning Lad, Triplicate Girl and Mon El with Superboy in the larger centre panel.

This time round we have Element Lad, White Witch, Shrinking Violet, Colossal Boy, Shadow Lass and Timberwolf with Chameleon Boy striking a Superboy pose thatís a bit out of character for him. With the DC logo having to appear, Giffen does well in choosing Violet at the bottom left. The revised HQ and the inclusion of the clouds around Timberwolf also add to the enjoyment of seeing the update.

But would it have been even more fun to have more recent Legionnaires on the cover? Cham, Gim and Jan have been around for a long time. A cover with Wildfire, Mysa, Vi (for reasons to come), Dawnstar, Jacques and Blok might have been nice. Hey, even keep in Superboy for some sales.

The characters on the cover are the ones to be revamped with new costumes by Giffen, which is the reason that theyíre there.

That applies to Cham, but heís also front a centre as the story is something of a spotlight issue for him.

He and his father RJ Brande have returned to Durla, in search of a way to restore Chamís powers. Following their reconciliation, their relationship has changed again. Cham takes a few pot shots at RJ having abandoned him all those years, and for RJ not revealing his identity when he was financing the Legion. The conversation is as much for exposition purposes as it is to move the plot along. But rather than say ďIt was a verdammit retcon!Ē Brande cuts Cham off. Heís trying to make amends through his actions and support. You can see his steely business face, when he shuts down anything that contradicts his approach.

Levitz has a good handle on the character. It would have been easy for Brande to be overly guilty about his past. Likewise, it would have been easy for Cham to go on moaning about it. But the conversation changes the direction for both.

Durla looks to have been a technologically advanced world at one point. Cham is searching for The Temple, a surviving energy source thatís supposed to have been behind the Durlans shape changing abilities. Unfortunately, it only took a six minute war to wipe out that earlier civilisation. Brande and RJ are captured by the tribe they left behind. When the pair refuse to re-join the tribe, they are abandoned in a crater where missiles apparently hit back in the war.

Giffen draws the Durlans as having tentacled faces hidden well within purple robes, also made by their powers. Itís a very distinctive look. Itís also one that reminds me very much of the Time Trapper. Todayís throw away theory is that The Trapper is a Durlan who caused the six minute war. His hatred of the Legion comes form it being so closely connected with RJ Brande and his son; Durlans who have betrayed their race by leaving their heritage behind. smile

Levitz also gets points for having both characters take share of the responsibilities in driving the story forward. While Cham rejects the tribe, itís RJ who frees them from the crater in a very direct way. While Cham prevents them form being monster food, itís due to the training he got at the RJ funded Legion. RJ also provides plenty of moral support to Chamsí quest.

RJ is clearly not there for himself, as shown when he chooses not to regain his powers. Heís there to support his son. Itís a touching bond, although RJ is beginning to get a tearful as Sodam Yat or a post Crisis Superman.

Todayís second throw away theory is that RJ didnít enter the energy stream in The Temple because heís not actually a Durlan at all, and it would have killed him. He has no shape changing abilities to restore. See previous RJ appearance as a bald arms dealer and the clearly fake retcon in the Secrets mini series smile

Cham has realised that itís the radiation from the Daxamite Ol-Virís X-Ray vision that has stopped his powers, back in the Great Darkness saga. He correctly surmises that the radiation from the temple will restore them, rather than just kill him. If thereís one thing that tells me that the Durlans are always wearing body shapes like clothes, itís the seam that runs down Reepís foot on page 14 as the pillar of energy in the temple warps him. Weíd later see Cham in a robe in v4 and, thanks to this issue, it seemed fitting.

On leaving The Temple, the pair face off against the chief of the tribe; The First Speaker. Itís Reepís Legionnaire training, and all the missions heís been on, that wins the day for him. Actually, itís more than that. Itís the perception of a wider world that wins the day. Itís that curiosity that made him leave Durla and itís that trait that made him remember the creatures to imitate to defeat the world bound Durlan leader.

Father and son depart Durla, back to their homes and the wider galaxy they come from. But Levitz does put some extra effort into the story. Thereís nothing to suggest the Durlans are wrong in their viewpoint, just because they lost out to Reep and RJ.

Itís a world of precious few resources. Population control may have to be vigorously enforced. Certainly challenges to the order are also quickly and lethally resolved. Form a resource perspective, this prevents huge rifts and a drain on whatís available.

As they got older, each would have a function within their tribe to support the whole. The departure of RJ and Reep would have destabilised this to an extent. It would have certainly been a waste of valuable effort and commodities. What of others who had wanted a child, but were passed over for Reepís parents? Itís shown in v4 that Reep had to kill his brother in a Durlan ritual. Form the tribeís perspective, itís better that Reep had never been around so his brother, or another, could have taken that place.

On one level the story indicates that the fabulous technology of the United Planets, as amply illustrated by the Weberís World subplot this issue, is something to strive to be part of. But thereís the Durlan side to this. The Tower contains an almost mystical energy source that was sufficient to keep the survivors of a global disaster alive. When it comes to advanced technology, the Durlans have already had it, and have clearly paid a heavy price as a result. A rejection if it generally, while keeping some untouched through ritual, seems like a legitimate stance under the circumstances.

Their rejection of visitors may also stretch back to their origins. But thereís a clearer message shown in this issue. Why would the United Planets go out of their way to quarantine a world that no one wants to leave? I doubt itís for any benefit of the Durlans, and I doubt very much if the people that do get to visit are there to study the ruins in any archaeological way.

Subplots in this issue include one that lasts a whole panel, as Jeckie and Valís ship depart for Orando. Later Iíll get a feeling of Dťjŗ vu as a similar return of Jeckie and Val leads to the beginning of the Baxter volume.

Thereís a nice payoff to the cover and the poster from #300 (what other title does that?) as Proty II passes Imra the pics. I wonder if this is the last Super Pets reference? When I started reading the Legion they were a bit of an embarrassing discovery. But that was before Iíd read any of them, and I found I enjoyed them a lot.

The Proteans are mentioned as ďSentient potential citizen[s]Ē and in Imraís thought bubble no less. I am therefore obligated to provide it as evidence of the sentience of the Protean that was later revealed to inhabit her husband. smile Possibly, even that such sentience shouldnít be considered as a complete surprise for her to know about.

Imra carries the piccies into the rec room, where a number of Legionnaires are waiting for a look at them. They are then disturbed by the Mission Monitor and a team depart. Ultra Boy gets to be on it, even though he should have stayed behind as Legion deputy. Itís a lovely combination of Legion administration lore and the subplot concerning Dreamyís leadership.

The whole thing is a well done transition, as we pick up some morsels on the characters in the rec room; a catch up on Gimís fight against Duplicate Boy; Tom and Dirk as gaming buddies and the continued closeness of Querl and Kara.

Nura isnít in the rec room with them. She announces the mission, and its team remotely. That distance reinforces the separation some of the cast feel about her tenure. More points for the creative team there, for not showing something.

Seeing two of the founders relax in the rec room, while the Legion continues around them, shows that the team moves on. It continues the trend of the founders to be removed a bit from the team missions.

The mission involves a trip to Daxam, continuing its recovery very much off panel.

Elsewhere, the investigations concerning Vi continue. We donít get much movement here, except that they are looking at Science Police Files (classified ones too if you can read upside down. Or just turn the book around if you prefer. smile) Gi Gi Cusimano is introduced to Jan. Iím not sure if this is her first appearance. Iím distracted by Jan saying ďmeetíchaĒ Perhaps his new costume came with some new vocabulary. Gi Gi also meets Sun Boy and this will develop into a subplot too.

While Dreamy is away, Querl launches another mission once Chamís flight ring is rendered non-functional as a result of Durlaís high radiation. En route, they are attacked by Ontiir. Suspicious of him, they are led to Weberís World.

We get a further reminder of how close Kara and Brainy have become, as well as how joined at the hip Gim and Vi are too. Both Gim and Kara get some rally well drawn panels during the attack. Kara seems like such an easy, natural part of the team.

Aside: Having had a pop at Bendis for all the ďÖ the hell.Ē panels he writes when his name came up as a possible Legion writer, itís only fair I point out the ďWhat the--??Ē dialogue here smile

Poor Chamís plight is easily ignored showing that Levitz just wanted to give the characters a reason for leaving HQ. Rather than provide any sort of cliff hanger this issue, we get a light hearted page closing of the Brin on the town set up and a reminder that Val and Jeckieís wedding (and an annual) is approaching.

Thereís the glimmer of a Teen Titans/ Legion crossover in the letter column too. As its 1983, and Marvís idea, the villain could well have been the Anti (Mission) Monitor Board! Or Terry Long hypnotising the female Legionnaires with his Mayavale Medallion and chest hair! Deadlier than that Scarlet Plague story! smile


"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
#940698 - 11/15/17 07:09 PM Re: Re-reading the Legion: Archives Volume 19 [Re: Fat Cramer]  
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He Who Wanders Offline
She ran and called him Wildfire.
He Who Wanders  Offline
She ran and called him Wildfire.

Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 23,518
The Plateaus of Ecstasy
301:

I think this is one of the issues I've remembered most over the years. I love Cham and R.J.'s relationship, and the fact that the latter came along just to show his love for his son--not to regain his own powers. This actually puts a lot of things in perspective. As a teenager, I thought having super-powers would be the greatest thing. But R.J. Brande has lived longer. He has very different priorities. Yet he's also human (so to speak). He's made mistakes, such as not acknowledging his parentage to Reep all these years.

In the real world, fathers abandon their children, leaving a void and a lot of unexplained behavior. I experienced this in my own family. Yet one of my relatives now has a close relationship with the father who abandoned him when he was so young. I can't claim to know all the particulars, but I love the idea that the bonds of love survive past transgressions. I also love seeing the Legion characters as fully rounded human beings whose faults have unintended consequences.

It's also fascinating to watch the First Speaker be defeated by a simple hummingbird--a creature most of us take for granted but which remains unknown to Durlans. This is a powerful message of why isolationism doesn't work.

As for Nura, I can't help but see Ultra Boy's reaction as sexism. In previous stories, Legion leaders made similar calls (I'm thinking of Mon-El ordering Duo Damsel on a mission during the Action run, but the issue number escapes me) , and no one questioned them. But now Jo harbors ill feelings toward Nura, just as Element Lad does. It's a shame, really, to think that sexism hasn't died out in a thousand years.

I also loved the cover. It accomplishes two things: 1) It ties the current Legion series to the Adventure tradition, and 2) it moves that tradition forward by displaying new costumes for certain characters. There's a wonderful sense of the characters being open to change while adhering to the structure which defines them.


Check out my new Power Club website!

The Semi-Great Gildersleeve - writing, super-heroes, and this 'n' that
#940702 - 11/16/17 05:33 AM Re: Re-reading the Legion: Archives Volume 19 [Re: Fat Cramer]  
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Dave Hackett Offline
Dave Hackett  Offline


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Moncton, New Brunswick, Canada
I found, and still find, Cham's new costume completely bland. The red and purple just popped so much better, I didn't get the impetuous to change it. As much as I really liked Giffens artwork up through this period, I don't think there's a lot of his costume re-designs I ever took to completely. Of course when he returned at the end of the Baxter and redesigned everyone, it was far, far worse.

#940755 - 11/17/17 06:25 AM Re: Re-reading the Legion: Archives Volume 19 [Re: Fat Cramer]  
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Fat Cramer Offline
Fat Cramer  Offline


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Cafť Cramer
Oh, I missed the whole new costumes on the cover thing.

Originally Posted by thoth lad
Giffen draws the Durlans as having tentacled faces hidden well within purple robes, also made by their powers. Itís a very distinctive look. Itís also one that reminds me very much of the Time Trapper. Todayís throw away theory is that The Trapper is a Durlan who caused the six minute war. His hatred of the Legion comes form it being so closely connected with RJ Brande and his son; Durlans who have betrayed their race by leaving their heritage behind. smile


Much better than entropy, Rokk Krinn or that bald guy in Takron Galtos when Darkseid attacked. Of course, being Durlan, he could have impersonated all three, depending what entropy looks like.

Quote
Todayís second throw away theory is that RJ didnít enter the energy stream in The Temple because heís not actually a Durlan at all, and it would have killed him. He has no shape changing abilities to restore. See previous RJ appearance as a bald arms dealer and the clearly fake retcon in the Secrets mini series smile


That would explain why doctors couldnít detect R.J.ís Durlan blood type. So what exactly is R.J. and did he pay off Chamís aunt to go along with his story, because he wants a Legionnaire son and heir?

Quote
Cham has realised that itís the radiation from the Daxamite Ol-Virís X-Ray vision that has stopped his powers, back in the Great Darkness saga. He correctly surmises that the radiation from the temple will restore them, rather than just kill him. If thereís one thing that tells me that the Durlans are always wearing body shapes like clothes, itís the seam that runs down Reepís foot on page 14 as the pillar of energy in the temple warps him. Weíd later see Cham in a robe in v4 and, thanks to this issue, it seemed fitting.


I guess Brainy could have figured out the radiation connection if he hadnít been so busy with Danielle, Tenzil and Douglas. The robes were also used by Durlans in the reboot; itís as if their forms are so fluid that they agree to a common look for ďclothingĒ. I wondered why Cham wore that robe in v.4, in the privacy of his own home; itís maybe like a comfortable old sweater although it could be a Durlan pride sort of thing. Missed the seam on p.14. My, what good eyes you have!

Quote
On leaving The Temple, the pair face off against the chief of the tribe; The First Speaker. Itís Reepís Legionnaire training, and all the missions heís been on, that wins the day for him. Actually, itís more than that. Itís the perception of a wider world that wins the day. Itís that curiosity that made him leave Durla and itís that trait that made him remember the creatures to imitate to defeat the world bound Durlan leader.


This appreciation of the wider world would be picked up in R.J.ís v.4 origin story. It appears to be an exceptional trait among Durlans and I wonder why it wasnít attributed to Yera as well.

Quote
Itís a world of precious few resources. Population control may have to be vigorously enforced. Certainly challenges to the order are also quickly and lethally resolved. Form a resource perspective, this prevents huge rifts and a drain on whatís available.

As they got older, each would have a function within their tribe to support the whole. The departure of RJ and Reep would have destabilised this to an extent. It would have certainly been a waste of valuable effort and commodities. What of others who had wanted a child, but were passed over for Reepís parents? Itís shown in v4 that Reep had to kill his brother in a Durlan ritual. Form the tribeís perspective, itís better that Reep had never been around so his brother, or another, could have taken that place.

On one level the story indicates that the fabulous technology of the United Planets, as amply illustrated by the Weberís World subplot this issue, is something to strive to be part of. But thereís the Durlan side to this. The Tower contains an almost mystical energy source that was sufficient to keep the survivors of a global disaster alive. When it comes to advanced technology, the Durlans have already had it, and have clearly paid a heavy price as a result. A rejection if it generally, while keeping some untouched through ritual, seems like a legitimate stance under the circumstances.

Their rejection of visitors may also stretch back to their origins. But thereís a clearer message shown in this issue. Why would the United Planets go out of their way to quarantine a world that no one wants to leave? I doubt itís for any benefit of the Durlans, and I doubt very much if the people that do get to visit are there to study the ruins in any archaeological way.


Durla is truly one of the stranger planets in the Legionverse among those which have been developed by the creative teams. Itís distasteful at times (the kill-your-brother ritual, the ruins, even the forms adopted by some residents), truly alien visually and quite foreign to our majorityís contemporary culture. Tribes can be threatening, theyíre a separate, unified group within our society and often donít conform to or respect the rules of the greater society. Is Durla quarantined for their own good, or for the rest of the United Planets? Durlans have often been hostile players when interacting with the U.P.. Their rejection of U.P. technology may be fear-based, given their past, or rational, they donít need it and perceive that it might destroy the tribe. So thereís a bit of protective power play in that stance as well, that the powers that be want to preserve the status quo. In that sense, some might be glad to get rid of the likes of Reep and R.J., since theyíre like infections. (This happened to Gates and Quislet, IIRC: kicked out of their societies for being too different.) In any event, a lot more could be written about Durla. Time for a mini-series!

Quote
Thereís a nice payoff to the cover and the poster from #300 (what other title does that?) as Proty II passes Imra the pics. I wonder if this is the last Super Pets reference? When I started reading the Legion they were a bit of an embarrassing discovery. But that was before Iíd read any of them, and I found I enjoyed them a lot.


Untold story: Proty II explains to the Super Pets why heís too good for them now. Hurt feelings all around, but they still stand by him because animals are better than us humans and kinda-like-humans. You betcha!

Quote
The Proteans are mentioned as ďSentient potential citizen[s]Ē and in Imraís thought bubble no less. I am therefore obligated to provide it as evidence of the sentience of the Protean that was later revealed to inhabit her husband. smile Possibly, even that such sentience shouldnít be considered as a complete surprise for her to know about.


Itís a lot for a comic to get into, but this does open up the whole question of sentience and consciousness in everything from animals to trees and plants, or the planet itself. Those ideas were just beginning to bubble around this time, but if the story were written today, Imra should have had some sense of a more complex mind in Proty II (because we know sheís reading everyoneís mind, even if she says sheís not).

Quote
Nura isnít in the rec room with them. She announces the mission, and its team remotely. That distance reinforces the separation some of the cast feel about her tenure. More points for the creative team there, for not showing something.


For some, sheís the general on the front with the troops. For others (and we know who they are), sheís a glory hog.

Quote
Seeing two of the founders relax in the rec room, while the Legion continues around them, shows that the team moves on. It continues the trend of the founders to be removed a bit from the team missions.

The mission involves a trip to Daxam, continuing its recovery very much off panel.


Itís great how they manage to keep the sub-plots going with as little as one panel or one sentence.

Quote
We get a further reminder of how close Kara and Brainy have become, as well as how joined at the hip Gim and Vi are too. Both Gim and Kara get some rally well drawn panels during the attack. Kara seems like such an easy, natural part of the team.


Sigh for what might have been....

Quote
Aside: Having had a pop at Bendis for all the ďÖ the hell.Ē panels he writes when his name came up as a possible Legion writer, itís only fair I point out the ďWhat the--??Ē dialogue here smile


This could be like those Bible Code stories, or Dan Brown novels, or Nostradamus, in which we find that Bendis taking on the Legion in 2018 was predicted back in the 1980s.


Originally Posted by HWW
I think this is one of the issues I've remembered most over the years. I love Cham and R.J.'s relationship, and the fact that the latter came along just to show his love for his son--not to regain his own powers. This actually puts a lot of things in perspective. As a teenager, I thought having super-powers would be the greatest thing. But R.J. Brande has lived longer. He has very different priorities. Yet he's also human (so to speak). He's made mistakes, such as not acknowledging his parentage to Reep all these years.


I liked this glimpse into R.J.ís character. I think it goes dormant, however, until v.4 when he winds up on Yolu and Cham goes looking for him.

Quote
It's also fascinating to watch the First Speaker be defeated by a simple hummingbird--a creature most of us take for granted but which remains unknown to Durlans. This is a powerful message of why isolationism doesn't work.


It was never followed up, but one canít help but think that First Speaker and the other ruling officials might have made some changes after this encounter.

Quote
As for Nura, I can't help but see Ultra Boy's reaction as sexism. In previous stories, Legion leaders made similar calls (I'm thinking of Mon-El ordering Duo Damsel on a mission during the Action run, but the issue number escapes me) , and no one questioned them. But now Jo harbors ill feelings toward Nura, just as Element Lad does. It's a shame, really, to think that sexism hasn't died out in a thousand years.


It may be sexism, although I didnít see it that way myself. There was a lot of friction with Wildfire as leader, although I forget off-hand who were the most offended. I took it more as a bit of sore-loser feeling but it could be theyíre reacting worse to her than they would have if theyíd lost to someone like Shrinking Violet (who one wouldnít figure for leader, but hasnít been portrayed - or let herself be seen - as a ditzy dame).

Quote
I also loved the cover. It accomplishes two things: 1) It ties the current Legion series to the Adventure tradition, and 2) it moves that tradition forward by displaying new costumes for certain characters. There's a wonderful sense of the characters being open to change while adhering to the structure which defines them.


Odd man out here, just donít like that cover, homage be hanged. Too static and, like Dave, I donít think Reepís (or Janís) costume is very appealing. And, yes, the big shoulder pads will be worse.


Holy Cats of Egypt!
#940759 - 11/17/17 07:08 AM Re: Re-reading the Legion: Archives Volume 19 [Re: Fat Cramer]  
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Originally Posted by Fat Cramer
Oh, I missed the whole new costumes on the cover thing.
like Dave, I donít think Reepís (or Janís) costume is very appealing. And, yes, the big shoulder pads will be worse.


Isn't Shadow Lass hot in that full-body black outfit? Seeing as how she's essentially been wearing a bathing suit since we first met her.

And by this point in the plotting arc, the writers are perfectly aware that despite the caption, that is not Shrinking Violet.


"I vow to use my super-powers to uphold the principles of democracy and the enforcement of law... never for selfish or evil ends!"
#940792 - 11/17/17 08:28 PM Re: Re-reading the Legion: Archives Volume 19 [Re: Fat Cramer]  
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She ran and called him Wildfire.
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Originally Posted by Fat Cramer

I liked this glimpse into R.J.ís character. I think it goes dormant, however, until v.4 when he winds up on Yolu and Cham goes looking for him.


Which is fitting since he's really a supporting character.

Quote


It was never followed up, but one canít help but think that First Speaker and the other ruling officials might have made some changes after this encounter.


I doubt it.: smile Sentients who are entrenched in their worldviews don't make changes; they make excuses.

Quote


It may be sexism, although I didnít see it that way myself. There was a lot of friction with Wildfire as leader, although I forget off-hand who were the most offended. I took it more as a bit of sore-loser feeling but it could be theyíre reacting worse to her than they would have if theyíd lost to someone like Shrinking Violet (who one wouldnít figure for leader, but hasnít been portrayed - or let herself be seen - as a ditzy dame).


Good points. The Legion does seem to have chafed against the yoke of their leaders as time went on. Pre-Wildfire, there wasn't much if any dissension in the ranks. In the real world, this reflects distrust of authority, I think, which became prevalent from the '70s on. In the Legion's world, maybe it's a sign of the characters maturing and no longer accepting things at face value.

And you're right: Nura promoted an image of herself as a ditzy dame. It's quite a shock to see her come around and portray herself as a ballsy (so to speak) commander. I wonder if Shady, whose warrior clan status was already well established, would have been perceived the same way had she been elected leader. Alas, we will have to wait until Projecta is elected leader to get our next glimpse of a woman in charge of the Legion (and one who was literally born to rule, at that). Alas, it is only a glimpse.


Quote


Odd man out here, just donít like that cover, homage be hanged. Too static and, like Dave, I donít think Reepís (or Janís) costume is very appealing. And, yes, the big shoulder pads will be worse.


I was reflecting on Dave's comment, and, while I agree with him that the red and violet costume with the headpiece is more striking, I came to realize that, at this stage in the Legion's development, costumes were the least important aspects of the characters to me. When I was younger, or because the personalities were so ill defined, the costumes and powers were the characters. But now much has changed. The last several issues have really let us get to know Cham as an individual. To me, that's much more important that what he's wearing.


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#940793 - 11/17/17 08:35 PM Re: Re-reading the Legion: Archives Volume 19 [Re: Klar Ken T5477]  
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Originally Posted by Klar Ken T5477


Isn't Shadow Lass hot in that full-body black outfit? Seeing as how she's essentially been wearing a bathing suit since we first met her.



You know, I think so, too. A full body suit was totally unorthodox from what Legion women had worn since the early '70s, yet Shady makes it work for her. Sexiness comes more from attitude and confidence than how much flesh is exposed.

I'm still not sure what to make of Shady's Caucasian skin--is it a mistake, or is she continuing the guise as a fashion statement? In any case, I can totally see the warrior side of her, as well as bit of mystery, than in any of her previous costumes.


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#940801 - 11/18/17 06:30 AM Re: Re-reading the Legion: Archives Volume 19 [Re: He Who Wanders]  
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Originally Posted by He Who Wanders
Originally Posted by Klar Ken T5477
Isn't Shadow Lass hot in that full-body black outfit? Seeing as how she's essentially been wearing a bathing suit since we first met her.
.


By which I meant, naturally, that as Tasmia has been consistently portrayed as comfortable wearing a one-piece bathing suit and short cape for some time, this footie-pajama and heavy cloak outfit might be making her feel uncomfortably over-warm. Not that I expect anyone would take it any differently.


"I vow to use my super-powers to uphold the principles of democracy and the enforcement of law... never for selfish or evil ends!"
#940807 - 11/18/17 11:14 AM Re: Re-reading the Legion: Archives Volume 19 [Re: Fat Cramer]  
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Ah, I see. "Hot" can mean different things. smile

Considering that the Legion women have worn bikinis in all kinds of weather and on all kinds of worlds, it's never really been an issue as to whether they are too cold or too hot. Somewhere along the way, in a lettercol, perhaps, it was explained the garments are made of materials that keep people warm regardless of how skimpy they may be. The 30th century equivalent of unstable molecules, perhaps?


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#940829 - 11/18/17 04:45 PM Re: Re-reading the Legion: Archives Volume 19 [Re: Fat Cramer]  
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Originally Posted by Cramer
While the history of Durla is fascinating, Reepís battles with various residents donít strike me as much more than an opportunity to illustrate peculiar monsters.


I think Giffen was given lots of space to play. That probably helped Levitzís writing about the tensions between isolationism and the loss of culture in joining something larger not become preachy.

Originally Posted by Cramer
That R.J. does not want his powers restored shows us another aspect to this character. For such a wealthy person (it appears that he has rebuilt his fortune after it was stolen by President Boltax), who can have any material thing, heís pretty philosophical and content with the status quo. Or did he fear that he might not survive the experience?


Did we see him depart with a group of Legionnaires just after he lost his fortune? More star building wasnít it and they met the Engineer. It was before the Reflecto Buffer Zone that blocks a lot of my Legion memories smile

Originally Posted by Cramer
This issue also introduces Gigi Cusimano. Itís odd to see her initial wide-eyed reaction to meeting Legionnaires, since I remember her as very familiar with the Legion and eventually surpassing Shvaughn in rank.


And she ended up being the one to bring the news about the end of the Legion in v7. I wonder why Erin wasnít Ö oh yeahÖ

Originally Posted by Cramer
Dream Girl astonishes in one-panel by bypassing the chain of command and naming Brainy acting leader, leaving Jo out in the cold. Thereís no explanation for this in the Lee Iococca tradition of ďNever complain, never explainĒ management. Iím curious to see if thereís some fallout from this decision in the issues ahead.


It's all she needed for Element Lad to have someone to whine to smile

Originally Posted by HWW
As for Nura, I can't help but see Ultra Boy's reaction as sexism. In previous stories, Legion leaders made similar calls (I'm thinking of Mon-El ordering Duo Damsel on a mission during the Action run, but the issue number escapes me) , and no one questioned them. But now Jo harbors ill feelings toward Nura, just as Element Lad does. It's a shame, really, to think that sexism hasn't died out in a thousand years.


I didnít see it as that. I just think they didnít like her. They wouldnít have done it to Imra or Jeckie after all. I think a lot of it is to do with Nuraís actions being so much at odds with the personal that the others thought she had. They forgot what she was like when she ran them out of the Legion in her first appearance. They got used to the flirting and the passing out when her powers kicked in, and stopped thinking about just how determined and focused she could be.

I think thereís still some lingering confusion/ self-recrimination over how she played the boys and girls of the team way back when too. Perhaps a little bit of jealousy that she ended up with Thom and not her, despite how much they all wanted to spend time with her.

Originally Posted by Cramer
For some, sheís the general on the front with the troops. For others (and we know who they are), sheís a glory hog.


I think that there may be off panel things going on. Perhaps after the GDS it was Nura who received a lot of the acclaim as the Legion leader. Despite being heroes, maybe it has rubbed a few of them up the wrong way. So, when we see her getting on with her job, which is ordering mission teams, the others just see themselves as soldiers in her Legion campaign.


Originally Posted by HWW
In the real world, this reflects distrust of authority, I think, which became prevalent from the '70s on. In the Legion's world, maybe it's a sign of the characters maturing and no longer accepting things at face value.


Polar Boy had problems. Lightning Lad had a breakdown. Imra did well enough, but fittingly off the back of a story where you couldnít trust your leaders at face value. The volume ended before we really got to see Jeckie do much.

Originally Posted by HWW
And you're right: Nura promoted an image of herself as a ditzy dame. It's quite a shock to see her come around and portray herself as a ballsy (so to speak) commander.


:nods: although I do think she had shown her commander personality previously.

Originally Posted by HWW
I wonder if Shady, whose warrior clan status was already well established, would have been perceived the same way had she been elected leader.


I think having their butts handed to them would have changed their views rather sharpish. Shady wouldnít put up with it. And besides, no one is going to push Lar too far. Arguably, even including the conspiracy, you know youíre on the wrong side of heroism when youíre not on Larís side. smile


Originally Posted by Cramer
Supergirlís still here, which not only pleases Brainy but must give readers some hope (if they like the character) that sheíll be back on the Legion roster for good.


And it looks like the TV show thinks that itís a great match too.

Originally Posted by Cramer
At this point, it appears that Brainyís team is off to Weberís World, forgetting that they were going to rescue Reep.


Kara: Brainy? Why are we going to Webers World? What about Cham?
Querl: We just remembered the Khundian Asteroid mission. Heís probably responsible for getting himself stuck. Yeah, it was a bit too convenient a side track.


Originally Posted by HWW
Ö but I love the idea that the bonds of love survive past transgressions. I also love seeing the Legion characters as fully rounded human beings whose faults have unintended consequences.


Itís a sign of the maturity of the writing that can provide such strong characters as just one layer in a story involving trying to get super powers back.

Originally Posted by HWW
This is a powerful message of why isolationism doesn't work.


Unless you are trying to get past the quarantine around the Plague Planet. smile

Originally Posted by HWW
Sentients who are entrenched in their worldviews don't make changes; they make excuses .


The First Speaker will have found a way to convince the others that Reep cheated and the others will have found a way to forget their invitation for Reep to replace that Speaker before RJs anti radiation treatment even begins. smile


Originally Posted by HWW
There's a wonderful sense of the characters being open to change while adhering to the structure which defines them.


nod

Originally Posted by Dave
I found, and still find, Cham's new costume completely bland. The red and purple just popped so much better, I didn't get the impetuous to change it. As much as I really liked Giffens artwork up through this period, I don't think there's a lot of his costume re-designs I ever took to completely. Of course when he returned at the end of the Baxter and redesigned everyone, it was far, far worse.


This was the costume Iíd first know Cham in, so I preferred it to the red one probably on that basis. But in hindsight, youíre probably right. Although, perhaps he felt that as the head of the espionage team that his costume shouldnít pop. Not that this one is any less conspicuous.

I liked a lot of the Baxter costumes. Brin wearing an animal pelt was a mystery though.


Originally Posted by Cramer
Much better than entropy, Rokk Krinn or that bald guy in Takron Galtos when Darkseid attacked. Of course, being Durlan, he could have impersonated all three, depending what entropy looks like.


I like that. Finally a decent reason as to why there are so many different looks for the Trapper!

Originally Posted by Cramer
That would explain why doctors couldnít detect R.J.ís Durlan blood type. So what exactly is R.J. and did he pay off Chamís aunt to go along with his story, because he wants a Legionnaire son and heir?


I donít want to give away my Bits stuff Ö but itís the Proteans smile


Originally Posted by Cramer
I liked this glimpse into R.J.ís character. I think it goes dormant, however, until v.4 when he winds up on Yolu and Cham goes looking for him.


And what did that story involve? Proteans!

Originally Posted by Cramer
I guess Brainy could have figured out the radiation connection if he hadnít been so busy with Danielle, Tenzil and Douglas.


Now heís got to be wondering why his flight rings are conking out at just the wrong moments.

Querl: Itís like someone is making it happen deliberately. Some sort of creator, using us as strands of a storyÖ
[ONE RETCON LATERÖ]
Querl: Gosh! Karaís back visiting. Keep it cool Querl. Youíre not some green Legion recruit nowÖ wellÖ

Originally Posted by Cramer
I wondered why Cham wore that robe in v.4, in the privacy of his own home; itís maybe like a comfortable old sweater although it could be a Durlan pride sort of thing.


Reep: Itís a keepsake from home. If you look closely you can still make out the blood stains form the first fight to the death I had there.
Rokk: UmmÖ Is that Lydda calling me? Iíll be right backÖ


Originally Posted by Cramer
Missed the seam on p.14. My, what good eyes you have!


Why thank you maíam! I created them from my Durlan protoplasm just this morning.

Originally Posted by Cramer
This appreciation of the wider world would be picked up in R.J.ís v.4 origin story. It appears to be an exceptional trait among Durlans and I wonder why it wasnít attributed to Yera as well.


She fell into the Flaky Actress stereotype smile Besides, if she was that astute she wouldnít have run around as Vi for so long without starting to ask some questions. A bit self-absorbed in her role?


Originally Posted by Cramer
In that sense, some might be glad to get rid of the likes of Reep and R.J., since theyíre like infections. (This happened to Gates and Quislet, IIRC: kicked out of their societies for being too different.) In any event, a lot more could be written about Durla. Time for a mini-series!


Good spot about the similarities to other Legionnaires. There are lots of interesting takes on Durla keeping it as shifting as its inhabitants smile


Originally Posted by Cramer
Untold story: Proty II explains to the Super Pets why heís too good for them now. Hurt feelings all around, but they still stand by him because animals are better than us humans and kinda-like-humans. You betcha!


Comet: There he goes, little protoplasmic nose in the air.
Krypto: Did he show you the pictures again? The ones he took of the Legion?
Comet: You mean his Legion
Beppo: >sigh< Imraís never going to fall for him. Proty I died finding that out.
Krypto: Weíll be here for him. Itís what loyal friends do.
Streaky: Iím off to see if his room has comfier snooze spots than mineÖ


Originally Posted by Cramer
Itís a lot for a comic to get into, but this does open up the whole question of sentience and consciousness in everything from animals to trees and plants, or the planet itself. Those ideas were just beginning to bubble around this time, but if the story were written today, Imra should have had some sense of a more complex mind in Proty II (because we know sheís reading everyoneís mind, even if she says sheís not).


Imra?! reading minds?! Oh yeah, every issueÖ smile Except for her Proty husband, of course. Oh, she knew all right.

Personally, Iíve never seen man as any different from any of the other animals. Who can say about plants and everything else?

But the next time Chlorophyll Kid talks to them, perhaps we shouldnít chuckle quite so much. smile

Originally Posted by Cramer
Itís great how they manage to keep the sub-plots going with as little as one panel or one sentence.


The art, captions, main plots and dialogue are all really pushing the book forward.

Originally Posted by Cramer

Originally Posted by Wall of Text Lad
Kara seems like such an easy, natural part of the team.


Sigh for what might have been....


>sigh< I can see a few comments about certain events in the future. I must be Naltorian! >faints< see told you! >faints again<


Originally Posted by Cramer
This could be like those Bible Code stories, or Dan Brown novels, or Nostradamus, in which we find that Bendis taking on the Legion in 2018 was predicted back in the 1980s.


Giffenís next art shift into those extreme shadow/ faces would have made a Bendis issue of endless talking heads more visually appealing.

Originally Posted by Cramer
I donít think Reepís (or Janís) costume is very appealing. And, yes, the big shoulder pads will be worse.


But so fitting for the Ď80s Dynasty. smile


Originally Posted by HWW
When I was younger, or because the personalities were so ill defined, the costumes and powers were the characters. But now much has changed. The last several issues have really let us get to know Cham as an individual. To me, that's much more important that what he's wearing.


I do remember being blown away by Perezís Legion work in both Crisis and the History of the DCU a few years from this issue. Costume-wise they were so far aheadÖ just as it should be for a 30th century team smile

Originally Posted by HWW
Ah, I see. "Hot" can mean different things


smile I read Klarís post in just the same way. I prefer Shadyís less revealing outfits too.


"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
#940837 - 11/18/17 08:31 PM Re: Re-reading the Legion: Archives Volume 19 [Re: thoth lad]  
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She ran and called him Wildfire.
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Originally Posted by thoth lad

Originally Posted by HWW
This is a powerful message of why isolationism doesn't work.


Unless you are trying to get past the quarantine around the Plague Planet. smile


Although Durla was quarantined, the story makes it clear that the inhabitants could have received UP assistance or even been relocated if they wished but wanted no outside interference. I got chills as I read some of the First Speaker's dialogue: "Rights cannot be rejected. Birth cannot be denied" (p. 5); "Those who would go forth cannot eat at our fire, cannot share our peace" (p. 6); "Apart from us, you are better dead" (p. 19). This is a very narrow-minded and rigid worldview. It clings to tradition and rejects the uncertainty of change (which is ironic, considering the Durlans' powers).

(As a political aside, I couldn't help hearing in the First Speaker's dialogue a lot of Trump's rhetoric about focusing on America first, keeping American jobs safe, and protecting Americans from Muslim extremists. There's a similar rigidness of identity and fear of the unknown in his speeches.)


Originally Posted by thoth


Originally Posted by HWW
Ah, I see. "Hot" can mean different things


smile I read Klarís post in just the same way. I prefer Shadyís less revealing outfits too.


Glad I wasn't the only one. smile


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#940858 - 11/19/17 12:44 PM Re: Re-reading the Legion: Archives Volume 19 [Re: Fat Cramer]  
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Actually, by "Plague Planet" I was making a quip about somewhere like Infectious Lass' homeworld, but was too lazy to try and spell "Somahtur".

On your point, we don't know what strings come with the UP Assistance. We only have to look at the foreign policies of every nation of our own world to see that everything comes with a price. And that's not even including active meddling. In the last half hour I've heard quotes form half a dozen countries that fit perfectly with "clings to tradition and rejects the uncertainty of change." There was another where change is what they think they're getting, but it's going to be more of the same, with a different face. There are a number of arguments to illustrate that the alternative to that, isn't exactly designed to be in the best interests of anyone other than those who push for the change. smile

Durla: Where political discussion groups prevent them from ever rebuilding their shattered world. smile


"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
#940884 - 11/19/17 08:19 PM Re: Re-reading the Legion: Archives Volume 19 [Re: Fat Cramer]  
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He Who Wanders Offline
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Good point about UP help coming with possible strings attached. I was still thinking that the UP, like the Legion itself, is an altruistic organization that only wants what's best for everyone. smile

However, the First Speaker is willing to kill others for leaving Durla and bluntly states "Apart from us, you're better dead." This does not sound like someone who would consider help from any source under any circumstances.


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#940906 - 11/20/17 02:30 PM Re: Re-reading the Legion: Archives Volume 19 [Re: He Who Wanders]  
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thoth lad Offline
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thoth lad  Offline
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Originally Posted by He Who Wanders
I was still thinking that the UP, like the Legion itself, is an altruistic organization that only wants what's best for everyone. smile


I blame the Rereads for moving me away from that! smile

Originally Posted by He Who Wanders
However, the First Speaker is willing to kill others for leaving Durla and bluntly states "Apart from us, you're better dead." This does not sound like someone who would consider help from any source under any circumstances.


With Durla being resource poor, any drain on those resources isn't good. Worse, one might lead to more and then the whole thing could break down and they would all die. So, from the First Speaker's position it's better to kill a couple than to lose everyone, I guess. A mix of ideology and those strings cynical 'ol me sees all over the place would cover the last part. - Conspiracy Kid


"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
#940923 - 11/20/17 06:21 PM Re: Re-reading the Legion: Archives Volume 19 [Re: Fat Cramer]  
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He Who Wanders Offline
She ran and called him Wildfire.
He Who Wanders  Offline
She ran and called him Wildfire.

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The Plateaus of Ecstasy
Thank you for your thoughts, thoth. You added a different perspective I hadn't considered.

It's always helpful to see things from another's eyes. I still don't agree with the Speaker's views, but I can see where s/he might be coming from.


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#940935 - 11/21/17 03:53 AM Re: Re-reading the Legion: Archives Volume 19 [Re: Fat Cramer]  
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Fat Cramer Offline
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Cafť Cramer
DCCP #59 Ambush Bug II by Keith Giffen & Paul Levitz, art by Keith Giffen & Kurt Schaffenberger, letters by Ben Oda, colours by Carl Gafford

[Linked Image]

Superman encounters Ambush Bug in Metropolis; since Supes is en route to the 40th century, he decides to save time and dump the Bug en route with the Legion in 2983. The Legionís not home, however, so he reluctantly leaves Bug with Polar Boy, the only Sub available.

Ambush Bug escapes and the chase begins. Superman, returning from his future errand, discovers that Bug is on the loose and learns that Polar Boy had put him in an old aquarium tank rather than a secure holding cell.

Although Superman traps Ambush Bug, the Bug escapes, along with Supermanís cape. The Science Police arrive, raising Supermanís hopes for some competent help.

Meanwhile, Bug is creating mayhem in Metropolis, harassing a Drakian (aka Purple Eyestalk Creature), as Color Kid and Antennae Lad try to seize him. Bug finds the Superman Museum.

At SP Headquarters, Chief Zendak grills Porcupine Pete and Infectious Lass, as Superman looks on. The two subs explain that theyíre working with their Auxiliary members, people who havenít qualified for membership in the Subs. Zendak notes that Shvaughn Erin has failed to contact the Legion (and readers are advised that we donít know where this story fits in LSH continuity). They learn that AB is at the Superman Museum; Supes flies off, concerned that Bug will discover his secret identity.

At this time, Chlorophyll Kid and Fire Lad are stumped as to how to remove Stone Boy, whose head is implanted in concrete.

AB is finallly enticed into a room marked by a ďDo Not EnterĒ sign and turns on what he believes to be a special effects machine with a ďDo Not PushĒ button. However, itís a Phantom Zone Projector, so Bug is safely put away until Superman can deal with him.

The Subs say goodbye to Superman, who asks where their other members are. Chlorophyll Kid and Fire Lad are still contemplating how to free Stone Boy from the concrete.


Comments:

So light it almost floats away.... itís an enjoyable story and worth a few smiles. The Legion itself stays wisely out of the picture, whereabouts unknown. Perhaps Dream Girl had a vision and they all agreed to lie low and just watch the shenanigans. (I note that Night Girl is conspicuously absent; no doubt Rokk warned her of the coming fiasco, hoping to spare himself the embarrassment of a girlfriend who is a member of such a group as the Subs.)

The Subs have become synonymous with joke (apart from their 5YL rehabilitation). Iím wondering if this is Keith Giffenís doing. Although I didnít take the time to review the Adventure era stories, I recall them as weak, not masters of their powers, earnest, well-intentioned, but not idiots and goofballs. These guys could star in a teenage stoner movie.

Itís an Ambush Bug story as well, so logic goes out the window. Of course Superman doesnít drop Ambush Bug off with the Science Police, or delay his time travel and settle the situation in the 20th century. Of course there are many far-fetched coincidences which move the story along.

Supes was headed to the 40th century. Was his errand explained in a previous or later issue of this series? Itís a fairly popular time period in DC Comics, even being used in the 3boot with the Knights Tempus from the 41st century. Something about those multiples of 10 appeals to writers.

Gigi Cusimano, introduced in last weekís issue, is mentioned here, as Chief Zendakís gofer.

There are no lasting consequences, in terms of Legion timeline, from this story, but it does set the Subs up for future stories as the laughing stock of the 30th century.


Holy Cats of Egypt!
#940954 - 11/21/17 05:25 PM Re: Re-reading the Legion: Archives Volume 19 [Re: He Who Wanders]  
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thoth lad Offline
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thoth lad  Offline
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Originally Posted by He Who Wanders
Thank you for your thoughts, thoth. You added a different perspective I hadn't considered.



Likewise HWW.

Originally Posted by He Who Wanders
It's always helpful to see things from another's eyes.


That's what I was always taught. But now the police are here, I wonder if taking all those people's eyes makes me some kind of bad guy - Corinthian Kid smile


Originally Posted by He Who Wanders
DCCP #59 Ambush Bug II by Keith Giffen & Paul Levitz, art


Oh heck. I had pulled out #302 for a read. I'll need to go into storage for this one. I picked up the second annual, so at least I have that handy. But I didn't find the B&B issue. I'll have another look for that, but it could be it's one I don't have.


"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
#940957 - 11/21/17 06:51 PM Re: Re-reading the Legion: Archives Volume 19 [Re: thoth lad]  
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He Who Wanders Offline
She ran and called him Wildfire.
He Who Wanders  Offline
She ran and called him Wildfire.

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Posts: 23,518
The Plateaus of Ecstasy
Originally Posted by thoth lad


That's what I was always taught. But now the police are here, I wonder if taking all those people's eyes makes me some kind of bad guy - Corinthian Kid smile


Do you have a receipt for those eyes? hmmm


Originally Posted by thoth
Originally Posted by He Who Wanders
DCCP #59 Ambush Bug II by Keith Giffen & Paul Levitz, art


Oh heck. I had pulled out #302 for a read. I'll need to go into storage for this one. I picked up the second annual, so at least I have that handy. But I didn't find the B&B issue. I'll have another look for that, but it could be it's one I don't have.



I always admonish my students never to take credit for someone else's work, so . . . it was actually FC who wrote the above. smile

I have or had DCCP 59, but I couldn't find it while rummaging through my collection. I may have to sit this review out.


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#940958 - 11/21/17 07:03 PM Re: Re-reading the Legion: Archives Volume 19 [Re: Fat Cramer]  
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He Who Wanders Offline
She ran and called him Wildfire.
He Who Wanders  Offline
She ran and called him Wildfire.

Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 23,518
The Plateaus of Ecstasy
After reading FC's review, I don't think I want to revisit this issue. Polar Boy is not so stupid as to put a criminal in an aquarium instead of a locked cell. The other actions of the Subs are equally ridiculous.

I believe the Subs-as-humorous-foils aspect did begin here. Previously, they were treated as FC describes: resourceful, brave, and smart, just not powerful enough for the Legion.

This story is a mixed blessing for the Subs. Previously, they had been treated as very minor characters--so minor that when three of them were given new costumes back in S/LSH 211 or so, those costumes were never seen again. However, this story did give them a specific and recognizable identity--a "brand," in business parlance. The reader now knew what to expect when the Subs appeared--for better or for worse.





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