Legion World Forums LEGION OUTPOST Bits o' Legionnaire Business The Fan-Jam Thread (Current Jam: Zetaworld, an outlier universe within the DC multiverse

Welcome to the Fan-Jam thread, where anyone can help re-imagine a character, a team, a continuity, even a whole universe.

Before we start, I'll set some ground rules (which can be tweaked over time as the thread concept gradually evolves and jells:)

1) We start with a premise -- what exactly are we re-imagining currently? And since this thread is my idea, I will make the ultimate choice on the premise du jour based on Legion Worlders' suggestions. The one exception being the first premise, which I came up with simply to kick off the thread.

2a) If the premise involves re-imagining, say, a team, then anybody who is interested throws in their suggestions for a team roster.

2b) Once we reach a consensus on the roster, next we assign each individual team member to an interested Legion Worlder. Said Legion Worlder now controls this character and helps shape her or his backstory, personality, etc. Other Legion Worlders are welcome to contribute ideas, but the final say on whether the ideas are used is down to whoever is controlling that character.

2c) Then, once each team member has taken shape in our minds, we join together in plotting the team's first adventure.

3) It should go without saying, but I feel it has to be said: MUTUAL RESPECT IS PARAMOUNT! Civil disagreements, discussions, constructive criticism, debates are all very well, but flame wars, arguments, name-calling, trolling -- none of those will be abided.

Now then...

The first premise I came up with is actually inspired by something I found out recently thanks to the non-fiction book "Slugfest:" Namely, that around 1982-1983, DC's owners very nearly farmed out the DCU to Marvel (more details here) It would have started with a handful of DC's most saleable and/or familiar properties, and been expanded and evolved little by little.

My idea: Just imagine...us Legion Worlders getting carte blanche to re-imagine the JLA, specifically the JLA which would have marked the end of the Satellite Era and ushered in a New Direction (in the real world, this gave us JL Detroit; I'm sure we can come up with something far better than how that ended up.) As a raw framework, let's start with The Big 7, or, rather the Big 6, because, in my humble opinion, even though I like J'onn J'onnz, and even though he is "officially" the original 7th of the Big 7, I think it's been proven that J'onn is a character who cannot carry a solo series; so although I do have problems with the DCU of recent years, I think it was perfectly reasonable to replace J'onn with Victor Stone/Cyborg as one of the 7 founders. Thus, the 7th Founder will be a wild card, and will form the basis of our first jam -- who will be the lucky heroine or hero to help found the JLA?

So...

Here are the Big 6:

WONDER WOMAN (I call dibs on her)

SUPERMAN (Still awaiting to be assigned to a Legion Worlder, as of 7 Feb 2018, 9:30 a.m. Eastern Standard Time)

AQUAMAN (Still awaiting to be assigned)

FLASH (SATBA)

GREEN LANTERN (SATBA)

BATMAN (SATBA)

And...

Who do YOU think should be the 7th Founding Member of the JLA? Also, why?

Let's go!

After a couple hours of consideration, I am going to nominate...

FIRESTORM, THE NUCLEAR MAN

Why? Let me count the ways...

- Tenure Ronnie/Prof Stein was/were the final member to join before the end of the beloved Satellite Era. In addition, Firestorm was the first hero who had first been seen in the comics only a few years prior to make the leap into being added to the Super Friends roster, predating even Cyborg by one year/one TV season. This was a far bigger deal at the time than it might seem today, especially considering that Firestorm had first appeared during the DC Explosion/Implosion of 1978, yet within 4 years he had joined the JLA (admittedly, it helped that his creator, Gerry Conway, was also writing JLA at the time, but still,) and by 1982 already had his second solo series, which was an immediate hit and went on to last 100 issues. Then, only two years from that, he joined the Super Friends in the 1984-1985 season (aka The Super Powers Team.)

- Youth plus Age He was the League's kid brother figure and mascot all wrapped into one, but it might never have worked if Firestorm hadn't been such a fresh take on superheroes by combining two archetypes -- the adolescent every-dude (Ronnie) and the wise surrogate uncle (Prof Stein.)

- The Look Come on, that's an awesome, iconic look -- it even helps Firestorm share something with one of his obvious inspirations, Marvel's Spider-Man: He's scary-looking until you realize he's a nice kid (and a little more, but I'm sure my point comes across.

- Potential Still Burns Although I like the first 3 years or so of the Firestorm solo series, I feel it went off the rails. The 90s were not a good decade to him, and the 2000s were arguably even worse. And he has fans among some very talented creators -- part of the reason why Mike Carey ended up doing a lot of superhero work for Marvel instead of DC was because DC rejected his Firestorm proposal. Someday, Firestorm will find his second wind. Until then, I think the fan creators on the web should help out as much as we can.

I think some clarification is needed here, Annfie, because there is a little confusion here.

What I THINK you're saying is that you want to imagine what a reboot would have been like after the satellite era ended, such as what Marvel might have done if they'd been given the job. What the title implies, though, is let's take the JLA in a different direction than the ultimately-failed Detroit era took. The first requires a complete re-thinking of the JLA from the beginning and throws out continuity. The second requires leaving everything thru the satellite era intact and then diverging from the end.

Everything about your building a founding seven indicates the former, but I think there's some room for confusion.

Oops.

Apologies, Legion Worlders.

And thanks for the heads-up, Lardy.

I did mean the former, a complete re-thinking of JLA from the beginning that throws out continuity.

The best analogy I can come up with off the top of my head would be the first 18 months or so of the Post-ZH Legion, in the sense that we can still have nods to the classics, but with a different twist.

Just to avoid any more potential confusion, we are also re-imagining each of the founders as solo stars, based on the same criteria I described just now.

I also changed the thread sub-title. Thanks again, Lardy.

In that case, I'm not sure yet as to whom, but I think the seventh founder should be another woman. I see no reason why it should be a complete sausage fest. Maybe Black Canary, Hawkgirl, Zatanna or even Firehawk?

Also, to make this line-up more racially diverse, I think using John Stewart instead of Hal Jordan would be a nice idea. I'm reluctant to change races on any of the other six. At least John is logical.

I love the John Stewart idea! To a whole generation, John is THE Green Lantern! Whenever we get around to expanding this DCU, we could maybe have Hal retire from Lantern duty (de-powered, preferably, as turning the Guardians into bastards would invalidate any sentient in their right mind following their orders.)

As for the 2 ladies idea, I'll put Black Canary as a close second to my original nomination of Firestorm. Diana and Dinah's different power levels, styles, attitudes, and outlooks would be a nice contrast with plenty of character dynamics.

All of the classic JLAers had a career prior to its founding, so I was thinking that Hal could still have been Earth's first GL. I was thinking that prior to the JLA's founding, something happened to Hal. Something else else mysterious that is left open-ended. Whatever it was, the sector was left without a GL, and John was chosen to be the next one. And shortly after he gets the ring, enough time for him to be pretty adept at its use, whatever incident we devise brings the JLA together.

I like this because it respects Hal and leaves open the possibility of his return with what would probably be a pretty rollickin' story down the road!

Dinah is a good choice but maybe too easy of one. There is a tradition, going all the way back to J'onn, of the last member being a bit of a wild card. Cyborg fit that bill as well. Who could be that person in this version?

Vixen would be a neat 'wild card' seventh Leaguer.

A more traditional pick would be Black Canary, or perhaps Hawkwoman (or Zatanna, which I'm less fond of, but still a good 'Satellite era' choice).

If we'[re really serious about rebooting the DCU circa 1982-3 and focusing on "flagship" characters to make up the new JLA, then, honestly, the only ones of the "Big 7" that I'd be completely confident about including would be Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, and the Flash. Aquaman had never really had much success at that point holding his own series, and the only justification I can think of for including him is that he was fairly well-known from Super Friends. At that point, Green Lantern had been struggling through most of the 70s as well, which is why I think rebooting him with John Stewart as the lead makes a lot of sense. Firestom would be a definite, as he really seemed like DC's big push character of the late 70s/early 80s.

I also vote for Superman, Wonder Woman, Batman and Flash!

I echo John Stewart over Hal Jordan for the GL slot.

I love the idea of Firestorm. Despite his youth, he definitely was "up there" in terms of power levels. And yes, for all the reasons Fanfie suggested (look, ability to carry a solo book...)

I'm also not too keen on the idea of Aquaman being retained as a founder. I would prefer J'Onn over him, just because I feel J'Onn's array of powers (especially telepathy) are too tactically important.

But... I also want to have another woman on the team.

But who?

I love Black Canary, but I feel that power-wise she could be better. Oh, that canary cry is great, but she could be a bit more powerful. Same reasoning applies to Hawkwoman.

Zatanna, on the other hand, might be TOO powerful. But if written well and with the right limitations, she could be made to work in a team book (like, maybe she can only prepare a few spells at a time a la White Witch?) So Zatanna it is.

So my seven -

Superman
Wonder Woman
Batman
Flash (Barry)
Green Lantern (John Stewart)
Firestorm
Zatanna

But wait! Hal Jordan has been written as the cocky, gung-ho flyboy. Who can take that personality spot? We need to shake things up a bit, as Batman and Barry to an extent are very, very serious.

It could be split between Firestorm (the inexperience of youth) and John Stewart (takes too many risks because he has a chip on his shoulder from being perceived as a substitute GL?)

I think Firestorm definitely gets most of the cocky personality. The problem with Black Canary is that I just don't see including her but not also including Green Arrow. Maybe the two of them could head up their own "Outsiders" type team?

If we're effectively rebooting the DCU, then the question quickly comes up whether or not we're keeping stuff like multiple earths (in which case we could keep "Earth-1" intact and just move the story to a new Earth) or going full-on COIE. In either case, we needn't be limited to traditional "Earth-1" characters.

Hmm...

Outside of the Earth-1 characters though, I'm struggling to think of many that would "fit".

Most of the JSAers are a tad weaker than the Satellite JLA members (Starman, Al Pratt, Dr. Mid-Nite), OR have powers that duplicate the JLA (Alan Scott, Jay Garrick, Hipployta; and Dr. Fate and Spectre are covered by Zatanna's magic).

From Charlton there's Captain Atom, but I think Firestorm makes a better choice in terms of look, powers, and personality.

There's Captain Marvel, but I would prefer a greater variety of powers - Marvel is basically a flying brick, which is covered by Superman and Wonder Woman.

I did think of Cyborg, but power-wise I rank him below Firestorm and Zatanna.

Doctor Light (Kimiyo) would add another female and add to the diversity, but she's hardly a top-tier character in terms of fame.

I must admit that removing Aquaman kind of appeals to me. His abilities don't often lend themselves to many JLA missions. It seemed that the "split up and search" plots were used so often partly to accommodate him. Besides, he's the King of a nation, so it's a bit of a stretch to have him as more than an occasional guest star.

My thanks to all who have chimed in while I've been working on my re-imagined origin for Wonder Woman. I'll add my own 2 cents on the various points you have raised once I finish this WW post.

WONDER WOMAN of EARTH-1

Name: DIANA, Amazon Princess of Paradise Island

Life Expectancy: NEAR-IMMORTAL

Martial Status: SINGLE (dated Steve Trevor, now deceased, during 1940s)

Children: NONE

Secret Identities: DIANA PRINCE (1941-1947, then faked her own death, using various other identities while staying under the radar for the next quarter-century,) VALERIA KOSMATOS (1971 to "present day" (circa 1982-84))

THE FIRST YEAR OF THE RELAUNCH

Issue #1. Lead story (20 pgs) - WONDER WOMAN vs. CHEETAH (Deborah Domaine,) PARTIAL ORIGIN OF WONDER WOMAN; Backup story (8 pgs) - Olympian Gods Intrigue, focusing on Poseidon vs his daughter QUEEN CLEA

2. Lead story (20 pgs) - WONDER WOMAN vs. GIGANTA (Doris Zuel,) more of Wonder Woman's origin; Backup story (8 pgs) More Queen Clea vs. Olympus

3. Lead story (20 pgs) - WONDER WOMAN vs. DR. CYBER, more of Wonder Woman's origin; Backup story (8 pgs) More Queen Clea vs. Olympus, plus 1st appearance of SAMSON

4. Lead story (20 pgs) - WONDER WOMAN vs. QUEEN CLEA; Backup story (8 pgs) Origin of SAMSON

5. Story (28 pgs) - WONDER WOMAN & QUEEN CLEA team-up vs Olympian Gods; No backup story

6. Story (28 pgs) - TRIAL OF WONDER WOMAN ON MT. OLYMPUS

7-11. 28 pg stories in all issues - THE GAUNTLET, Parts 1-5, in which Wonder Woman and Samson are commanded by the Gods to compete in a "Most Dangerous Game"-style marathon; in time, Diana & Samson both rebel against the Gods, setting off an Olympian Civil War in which Samson appears to die.

12. Diana convalesces on Paradise Island, and readers are introduced to Queen Hippolyta and several other notable Amazons and their allies.

I'll file that under Totally Awesome/Must Do This.





My nomination for a wild card super-heroine:

GREEN FLAME, or Beatriz Da Costa under any other name, mashing together her mysticism-heavy Pre-Crisis origin (that way we can have a mystical Leaguer who's not a Deus Ex Machina like Zatanna,) with her JLI/Post-Invasion power-levels. As a Latina, she'd bring even more diversity to the team, plus a tangential connection to the JL cartoons of the 2000s, where Hawkwoman was a Coded Latina, voiced by a Latin American actress, Maria Canals.

And I'll fourth the motion to leave Aquaman out of the team. I was actually hoping it would go this way. Thanks, you guys.

RE: John Stewart as cocky, I've always preferred the idea that he used to be angry and reckless (though not with ridiculous outcomes like the accidental destruction of whole planets) but now he keeps his cool 95% of the time, the other 5% being when someone is stupid enough to cross him (I've been thinking that if we introduce the Omega Men in the GL book with John instead of Hal as GL, John would have a lot less patience with the attitudes of some of them (Primus's pomposity, Demonia's treachery, Tigorr's aggro,) leading to some quite memorable scenes.

RE: Black Canary without Green Arrow, I think the Waid/Augustin/Kitson creative team made an Ollie-less Dinah work very well in "JLA Year One." Furthermore, I'd actually prefer having Canary instead of Batman as the team's non-powered tactician. Batman's ham-fisted portrayal in the JLA of the late 90s/early 2000s pretty much ruined the idea of Batman in the JLA (and Batman in general) for me. Finally, with Wonder Woman, Black Canary, and a wild-card superheroine in the roster, we'd have a 3 to 4 ratio of female to male Leaguers.

I've been thinking about all this, too.

Here's my idea: Make this a whole separate Multiverse! We'd have Earth-1 (the Big Guns JLA,) Earth-2 (pretty much the same as it was in the Pre-Crisis DCU,) Earth-S (Fawcett characters,) Earth-X (Quality characters,) Earth-C (Charlton characters,) Earth-E (as in evil; the Crime Syndicate,) even separate Earths for other imprints which have been added to DC over the decades (i.e., Earth-V (Vertigo,) Earth-W (Wildstorm characters,) and so on.

I didn't say it explicitly above, but I do endorse Firestorm being the replacement for Aquaman, As for the seventh member, I'm leaning toward it being both a female and someone who hasn't served with the League for any real length of time or not at all. Someone like Firehawk, Raven or Starfire?

^ Er...I guess if Firestorm is IN, then Firehawk is OUT.

Lardy, I love Raven, but I just feel that her story's been told and she should have been shuffled off way back in the late 80s, right after that special Curt Swan-drawn issue of NTT v.2 that spotlighted her. I think it was issue #44, and I'm certain it was one of the last issues before the "Who Is Donna Troy" arc. She'd earned the serenity she had fought for, and there was no point in her being in plain sight anymore.

OTOH, since this takes place around '82-'84, perhaps her story can have a somewhat different outcome (and certainly a less ham-fisted one than the opening arc of NTT v.2 -- Gods, just thinking about that story makes my head hurt,) with more definite closure.

Worth pondering, in my opinion. Thanks.

Thinking about it from a different angle, Lilith would add a nice balance with mental powers given that we've gotten rid of the team's two telepaths.

Oddly enough, her small role in Rebirth had me thinking about suggesting Saturn Girl for this spot, but I held back from suggesting her to this point because I thought about the telepathy, too.