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Re: Re-reading the Legion: Archives Volume 19
Fat Cramer #943986 02/06/18 11:26 PM
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311, “Destruction By Design”

When this issue came out, I couldn’t wait for more information on Lyle Norg. I had no way of knowing that Giffen had inserted the deceased Legionnaire into the previous story or that Levitz had already plotted 311; hence, the cursory mention of his return. Because I didn’t know the behind-the-scenes shenanigans (and, in truth, wouldn’t have cared), this issue came across as a big disappointment to me.

I mean, come on! A long-dead Legionnaire has returned and we don’t see him?! His teammates don’t rejoice that he's alive? They treat his appearance as matter-of-fact, as if he were simply recovering from a delusion. Vi got more sympathy without dying. Where’s the love for Lyle?

The absence of what I expected to happen overshadowed the rest of the story, which, even on re-read, is a rather pedestrian “Here’s what so-and-so was doing while the other Legionnaires were saving Khundia” yarn. I mean, sure, it’s great that Brainy accomplishes two things. He cures Danielle Foccart and tames Computo. But everything is done in such a rushed manner that it lacks resonance or significance. Computo was a major threat to both the Legion and humanity; that it is defeated so easily and domesticated seems off.

On the other hand, I do appreciate Brainy’s purely logical solution to the problem. It probably never occured to him that his teammates—especially Lu and Chuck—might have a problem with one of their greatest enemies serving as their butler. To him, it’s a purely intellectual puzzle. This disconnect between how he sees Computo and how they see it could have been developed in subsequent stories, but, apart from the odd shiver as Computo pours lemonade or some such, I can’t recall it being addressed.

I also appreciate the idea that Brainy faced a challenge he couldn’t quite overcome. He keeps making the same mistake—unleashing Computo—and seems distracted by Kara (though she isn’t mentioned in this story). However, Brainy doesn’t learn anything new or come across as changed by this episode. Instead, his last-panel laughter seemed strange and disconnected from what had gone before—another indication of his fragile mental state, perhaps?

It’s always good to see Chuck and Lu again, and Chuck is put to good use here (especially in cushioning Brainy’s fall). Flynt Brojj and SP Captain Noname add nothing to the story.

Oh, yes, there’s also the new HQ. In the modern day, when new technological marvels appear every six months, the instantaneous transformation of the HQ seems more plausible than it did then. The new building is sleek and hi-tech, even by today’s standards. But my initial impression upon reading this story was that Brainy takes an awful lot of liberties by redesigning the headquarters without consulting anyone. Just how much authority/power does he have? Too much, it seems.

“Destruction by Design” boasts a clever title, but the story, to me, is a piece of fluff with the redesign of the HQ being small consolation for the lack of character growth that might have been explored had Brainy actually learned something or Lu been forced to deal with her fear of Computo . . . or, heck, if Lyle Norg had put in an appearance.


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Re: Re-reading the Legion: Archives Volume 19
Fat Cramer #944048 02/07/18 08:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Fat Cramer

Flynt Brojj was last seen in Superboy #209, described as the Legion’s greatest fan. I don’t know how much Legion time would have elapsed since then, but Flynt is still a super-fan, just less excited. Does he hang out regularly with Legionnaires or Reservists like Chuck and Lu? As in his previous appearance, he displays a keen eye while the superheroes are distracted, noticing that the defense shields have fallen.


Flynt seems much older in this story.

Going by the chronology Levitz worked out in the Legion Sourcebook (and which he may or may not have adhered to in writing the series), about three years have passed since 209. Mon-El was leader at the time, and, since then, we've had three full terms (Wildfire, Lightning Lad/Element Lad, and Dream Girl), each representing one year. Also, in the backup story, Dawnstar is 18, and she was said to be 16 when she joined the Legion in 226, so the chronology holds up surprisingly well--Trivia Analysis Lad.

Flynt does demonstrate a penchant for noticing things, and it's a shame his relationship with the Legion wasn't developed further. The Legion really needed more regular supporting characters.

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The only sticking point for me was the lack of response from Luornu, immobilized with anxiety when Computo last broke free and now only responding with the group “Huh?”


Maybe it's just me, but I read more into her expression and Chuck's than in the reactions of the others. There's a sense of horror as well as disbelief in both of their eyes.

EDIT: I see from thoth's post that he saw horror in Lu's eyes, too.

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There’s only a comment that Lyle thought he was in hell, no panels indicating shock as the others learn of his return from the dead, and maybe Brainy or Imra could figure out what happened to him. Legionnaires take these sorts of things in stride.


I mentioned in my own thread that I was troubled by the Legion's matter-of-fact reaction to Lyle's return. Time and experience have put some of this in perspective, though. Not all of the Legionnaires were close friends, and, as we've seen in recent stories, some don't much like each other even though they are capable of working together. Lyle's only close friend we know of was Chem, and he, too, has passed away. So maybe the Legionnaires really don't have much of a reaction to Lyle's return. It's a sad thought.

However, they did serve with him for all those years and even regarded him highly enough to elect him leader. I would have expected some emotional response from them.

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Element Lad seems to be in high spirits, returning from Khundia. No sniping at Nura, although Wildfire’s interruption of “this needlin’ party” suggests that Mysa was implying Jan should have congratulated the former leader.


Interesting take on that scene. It shows Mysa becoming more assertive and Jan as a bit of a clod.



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Re: Re-reading the Legion: Archives Volume 19
Fat Cramer #944178 02/10/18 07:37 AM
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Originally Posted by thoth
Although it had a futuristic design, the Legion must have accidentally got Anti Lad to do the wiring. There’s no circuit breakers and an overload blows up the whole building.


Necessary for the Brainy-blows-things-up routine.

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Computo wastes no time in hurling the contents of the lab at its creator. It’s threats of domination and elimination are at odds with Brainy’s analytical approach to the situation. He almost goads Computo into ranting as he formulates a plan. His 12 level intellect fixes on a solution in the same page.


Computo as cranky child. If Computo took on human attributes, as Brainy infers, it must have taken on the attributes of the 10-year old (?) girl who it inhabited, therefore emotionally immature. And possibly with a penchant for My Little Space Pony.

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It’s an interesting approach. Computo escaping could have taken up any length of story. Levitz would later reprise the Universo story over four issues. This could have been similar. Alternatively, it could have incorporated elements of the first annual, when Computo was last freed. Instead, the subplot is built up over a number of issues and concluded in 11 pages. We know that Brainy has been working tirelessly on a solution. We know that Levitz has had him also working on a few other projects in his idle seconds. So, it’s no surprise when Brainy finds a new approach combining his research. It’s Brainy at his most effective. Smart, confident of his own ability yet self-critical and ever questioning. He contains a still ranting Computo in his force field and completes his idea with a huge sound effect at the bottom of the page.


Drawing the story out with a few panels spread over several issues did give the sense that this was a fairly drawn out problem, despite its eventual rapid solution. What was missing (for lack of space, I suppose) were the reactions of other Legionnaires – no expressions of fear, concern, doubt that Computo would be successfully dealt with and discussion of back-up plans if Computo escaped.

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More points to Flynt as Chuck and Officer Stereotype engage in some comedy arguing, rather than dealing with the threat at hand. If nothing else, it shows how Chuck has no problems in standing up to the SP. He’s also quick into action again, getting to save a rather battered looking Brainy.

I think a lot of writers like Chuck. He’s very well portrayed in most stories.

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Looking back, I only see horror in Luornu’s face and insanity in Brainy’s laugh.


Since both you and HWW mentioned the horror, I looked again at that panel and could say she and Chuck do indeed look more horrified than Flynn and the SP officers. To hit me over the head with that message, I would have had her passed out, or some other reaction, in the second panel showing the same faces. The Brainy insanity I don’t see so much, given how perfectly well-balanced he’s been throughout the issue (and previous issues). Any laugh from a super-genius does give one pause for reflection, however.

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But to get a really futuristic HQ for the team and a former-foe as Jarvis V into the book meant that there wasn’t much time before the launch. It needed to get some focus in the few remaining newsstand issues.


Reality to the rescue! There have been a number of times the HQ and/or Metropolis have been severely damaged and rebuilt. Some fast, some slow – but this must be the only external, real life driven occasion.

Originally Posted by HWW
On the other hand, I do appreciate Brainy’s purely logical solution to the problem. It probably never occured to him that his teammates—especially Lu and Chuck—might have a problem with one of their greatest enemies serving as their butler. To him, it’s a purely intellectual puzzle. This disconnect between how he sees Computo and how they see it could have been developed in subsequent stories, but, apart from the odd shiver as Computo pours lemonade or some such, I can’t recall it being addressed.


Good point about Brainy’s detachment from others’ emotional reactions. When Computo later took on the form of young Validus, Imra remarked that she was annoyed with Brainy for doing that and, IIRC, she considered that he did it on purpose to needle her.

Quote
I also appreciate the idea that Brainy faced a challenge he couldn’t quite overcome. He keeps making the same mistake—unleashing Computo—and seems distracted by Kara (though she isn’t mentioned in this story). However, Brainy doesn’t learn anything new or come across as changed by this episode. Instead, his last-panel laughter seemed strange and disconnected from what had gone before—another indication of his fragile mental state, perhaps?


They missed an opportunity to have him reflect on his own ego, just as he points out Computo’s failings are a result of ego. Or he could have remarked what a difficult challenge this was, even for him, and he wished Kara was there to celebrate with him.


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Re: Re-reading the Legion: Archives Volume 19
Fat Cramer #944179 02/10/18 07:38 AM
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#311 Second Story: A Shared Destiny by Paul Levitz and Keith Giffen, art by Gene Colan, Larry Mahlstedt Inks, John Costanza Colours, Carl Gafford Letters

Wildfire approaches Starhaven, admiring the purity of the atmosphere. He lands at a temple, asks for Dawnstar and is told he does not have permission to be on sacred ground which has not been disturbed by outsiders for seven hundred years. Dawnstar’s parents speak up and say that they know of Wildfire, but their daughter has gone on her grand tour. Wildfire is rather abrupt and just wants to know where she is; her mother Moonwalker replies that she is at her naming place and it is too late for anyone to interfere. Wildfire blasts off, leaving Moonwalker in consternation that he is not a whole man.

Dawnstar flies through the asteroid belt and bemoans the unfairness of creation, which took Wildfire’s body from him and thereby denied her a soulmate. She suddenly sees a meteor about to collide with a ship; her reverie ended, she flies at top speed and nudges the ship out of the meteor’s path. As a grateful pilot waves, she proceeds to the Dawn Star, Venus.

On Starhaven, Moonwalker and Mist-rider reminisce about her grand tour and their meeting, while hoping all will be well for their daughter.

Dawnstar contemplates the history of the grand tour, how it worked out well for all her female ancestors, and prays that the first light will bring her a sign. She feels a tap on her shoulder and Wildfire greets her, in his usual offhand manner. She is angry at this interruption of a sacred moment and flies off; he flies after her apologizing and losing his temper, burning the cloud cover from Venus. She shouts at him to stop. He apologizes again and says he only wants to make sure her choice is a perfect one. She is angry that he has reminded her that he has no body, and he replies that they could have a beautiful friendship.

On Starhaven, Dawnstar returns to her parents, who are eager to hear the news of her choice of partner. She informs them that Wildfire is her choice; they share a life, hopes and fears as Legionnaires. His lack of a body she considers to be a part of the Creator’s plan for her, although there might be another person in the future with whom to share physical intimacy. Her father hugs her as her mother says that no one can know if that will be enough, but if they share love, “the rest will follow somehow”.

Comments:
This is the completion of Dawnstar’s Grand Tour, but the story it’s hijacked by Wildfire, because they have, like, a shared destiny. I imagine a different telling of this tale could have Dawnstar saying, “Hey, this is MY Grand Tour – get off centre stage, Drake”. Wildfire does like to interrupt and take over scenes.

He is rather insensitive here, angering both Starhavenites and Dawnstar herself for his disrespect of their sacred traditions. Drake has one goal, and no time or patience for the sacred. Yet everyone forgives him; love and devotion appear to excuse ill manners and reckless behaviour. This is so Wildfire; how else would we expect him to act? I even feel I would forgive him myself. (It reminds me of the scene from The Graduate in which Dustin Hoffman grabs the bride away from the wedding ceremony and runs off with her.)

We’ve seen Dawnstar’s parents before; here they have a standard American native look. They don’t live in a teepee, at least, but in some sort of domed house. They’re traditionalists, and accept their daughter’s choice – as per the tradition – although they both harbour doubts.

The scene in which Dawnstar saves a ship from a meteor strike shows that she’s not totally absorbed in her quest and spiritual contemplations. She doesn’t mind an interruption to save lives, but she is rightfully angry with Drake when he barges in on her sacred moment.

Maybe it is destiny, but I feel as if she caved in to his personality and pressure. We don’t know what, if anything, he said after that plea for “a beautiful friendship”. Maybe her true soulmate was one of the guys in the ship she saved, but they veered away when they saw the clouds of Venus burning away. Knowing that there will be endless ups and downs in their future relationship and how possessive and jealous he will be adds a different flavour to this story. Dawnstar herself does leave the door open for a relationship with a physical man in the future, so how soul-matey is that? It’s as if this is the first time in the history of Starhaven that the Grand Tour failed.

Drake remarks on the quality of Starhaven’s air, even though he has no lungs. I don’t believe it’s ever been spelled out to what degree he still retains human senses – or if smell, touch and sight are a function of the suit. Legion stories occasionally point out how pure the environments of low-tech/no-tech planets are. (Both Dawnstar and Brainiac 5 will admire the air and water of Jhodan’s planet later in this series, when Dawnstar’s soulmate question gets complicated.)

The very atmospheric Gene Colan art suits this story of Dawnstar’s spiritual journey. It’s a good change of pace from the frenetic art of the Omen/Prophet arc. Although it’s not a look I’d expect for more action-oriented stories, it works here, delivering the sense of speed and movement when needed. There’s a great shot of Wildfire skidding to a stop as he lands on Starhaven, just like coming to a fast stop at the bottom of a ski slope, and many scenes which impart the speed of flight. Dawnstar and Wildfire meeting in space looks like a weightless, high speed ballet.


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Re: Re-reading the Legion: Archives Volume 19
Fat Cramer #944188 02/10/18 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Fat Cramer

Since both you and HWW mentioned the horror, I looked again at that panel and could say she and Chuck do indeed look more horrified than Flynn and the SP officers. To hit me over the head with that message, I would have had her passed out, or some other reaction, in the second panel showing the same faces.


I'd rather not have seen Lu faint. Such a stereotypical reaction would have added to the already cartoonish attempts at humor throughout the story (e.g., Chuck arguing with the captain).

Also, I think it's fine if the reader isn't hit over the head with Lu's reaction. Long-time readers already know the history, but for new readers, it would be necessary to explain why she reacts that way--and such an explanation would be an infodump. One of the nice things about the Levtz/Giffen era was the subtlety in the characters' actions and reactions, as we've noted previously.

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Good point about Brainy’s detachment from others’ emotional reactions. When Computo later took on the form of young Validus, Imra remarked that she was annoyed with Brainy for doing that and, IIRC, she considered that he did it on purpose to needle her.


I wonder if Brainy really does things like this to annoy his teammates. Maybe he has a mean streak or a socially maladjusted sense of humor. smile

Quote

They missed an opportunity to have him reflect on his own ego, just as he points out Computo’s failings are a result of ego. Or he could have remarked what a difficult challenge this was, even for him, and he wished Kara was there to celebrate with him.


I love the idea of him missing Kara! Such a reaction would have humanized him even more and cast a wistful spin on the ending--much more appropriate than maniacal laughter, I think. smile


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Re: Re-reading the Legion: Archives Volume 19
Fat Cramer #944199 02/10/18 03:47 PM
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311: “A Shared Destiny”

This is one of my favorite Legion backup stories—which is ironic since neither Drake nor Dawny have been among my favorite characters. Yet the story resonates with me on several levels. Dawny has left earth and Starhaven to embark on her grand tour of the galaxy and find her soul mate. Yet she already loves Wildfire—this is clear from her internal monologue in previous stories. However, their love is not meant to be. The writer might have easily substituted Drake’s race or religion for his condition as a disembodied suit of energy. Because of his "condition," he is culturally unsuitable for the woman he loves--a universal theme.

Dawnstar accepts the boundaries imposed by her culture, even though doing so tears her apart. She has been brought up with a mindset that things must be a certain way, though whether her adherence to this tradition is culturally imposed or a result of her own innate stubbornness is a matter of conjecture. If anything, the Starhaven culture—as represented by her parents, Mist-Rider and Moonwalker—seems clearly defined but not overly rigid. Her parents simply do not question the wisdom of “the greater spirit” because their own destiny has worked out so well.

Drake is also torn by Dawnstar’s decision, though he responds in a typical fashion—by taking action. He tracks Dawny down (tracking the tracker! smile ) to explain his previous actions. Drake is single-minded in the pursuit of his goal, utterly confident in himself, and brusque with those who stand in his way. He never disrespects Dawnstar’s parents, but he responds to Mist-Rider’s claim that he is too late to interfere as a challenge.

Meanwhile, Dawny continues her solitary flight through the solar system and silently rails against the Creator because she cannot see the “glorious pattern of the universe.” Instead, “all is in disorder.” In truth, it is Dawnstar’s thoughts and feelings that are in disorder. She wants to please her parents and uphold their traditions, yet she is troubled by her feelings for Wildfire. In a telling moment, she recognizes that, if it hadn’t been for the accident which made him a Legionnaire (i.e., turned him into a disembodied suit of energy), they would never have met. How can the Creator be so cruel?

Forbidden young love is also a universal theme (see: Romeo and Juliet, among many others), and, in such situations, it’s common to blame God. Clinging to the way she thinks the world should work blinds Dawnstar to how it actually works and nearly causes her to miss the plight of the spaceship. It’s an interesting notion, as Cramey suggested, that one of the men aboard the ship might have been her intended soul-mate—but Dawny rushes off too quickly for any such connection to be made. She pursues her journey as she thinks it should unfold and is not receptive to other possibilities.

At this point, we learn that Dawnstar’s “naming place” was the planet Venus—called the morning (or dawn) star. I don’t know if I was aware of this connection before, but it fits perfectly—as does her journey to the planet itself, which is associated with the goddess of love. Arriving at the planet prepares Dawnstar for her showdown with—Wildfire.

Both behave beautifully true to themselves in this encounter. Drake tries to ingratiate himself with humor, and she brushes him off and flies away (“You interfering idiot!”)—as if Drake could indeed interfere with the Creator’s “sacred” plan for her. In truth, he only interferes with how she still thinks her destiny should unfold. In a wonderful moment of irony, she tells him “There’s something missing from my life, Wildfire, and this is how I’m supposed to find it”—while fleeing from the very person she came to find: him.

Drake persists, however, and even uses his power to stop her from running away. I’m not sure why it matters that his burst of energy would burn away the clouds and cause the planet to overheat. Presumably, there aren’t any lifeforms on Venus that would be affected. In any case, the energy burst has the desired effect: It causes Dawnstar to stop and listen to him. (Her willingness to capitulate to an act of violence on his part may tell us something else, but that’s an interpretation for another discussion.) They finally have their heart-to-heart talk and she comes to realize that, while their relationship can be nothing more than a “beautiful friendship,” it is all she needs right now.

Dawnstar returns to her parents and announces that her journey is complete, even though it did not unfold as they expected. She exhibits growth and maturity here: honoring her parents’ wishes and reaffirming her love for them, but ultimately making her own decision. In another telling moment, she says, “Wildfire and I share a destiny few can dream of—the life of Legionnaires. What we dare—how we survive—our hopes, fears—they are much the same.” Love is complicated, but it helps if the lovers share similar goals, dreams, and experiences. Her experiences as a Legionnaire have bonded her to the team (a wonderful turnabout since she didn’t want to join in the first place) and, more specifically, to one fellow Legionnaire.

In this moment, Dawnstar also steps beyond the confines of her culture and her previous mindset. She learns to appreciate the mystery and uncertainty of life by realizing that the Creator’s plan (if there is one) is “too vast, too glorious” to be explained away. She simply accepts this turn of events.

Gene Colan’s art is absolutely perfect for this story—warm, earthy (even though much of the story takes place in space), and dramatic without being overly complicated. While flipping through the book, I couldn’t help but notice the contrast between Giffen’s full-page depiction of the new HQ (p. 10 of the first story) and any page of the second. Giffen’s page looks clinical, precise—almost like a blueprint and just as devoid of emotion. Colan’s work is evocative—especially in the faces and body expressions. Even when Mist-Rider and Moonwalker are depicted mostly in shadow (p. 6), so much feeling is conveyed.

“A Shared Destiny” is one of the stories from this era I’ve remembered most over the years. It forced me to step outside of my own culturally imposed notions of what love (and even sex) were all about. It also showed that one could be true to one’s tradition while being open to new experiences and possibilities.


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Re: Re-reading the Legion: Archives Volume 19
Fat Cramer #944226 02/11/18 10:27 AM
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LoSH 311 Second Story

A quite lovely splash page brings Drake Burroughs to Starhaven. In a spectacular landscape, an ancient looking cultural monument sits on the opposite side of an inviting valley from a futuristic habitation.

The dialogue wastes no time in reminding us that Drake has no body beneath his suit. While it’s exposition, I like to think that his state is something that’s constantly on Drake’s “mind”, an underlying depression/ conflict. Besides, it’s going to be an important plot point. Getting it out of the way, while we’re looking at Colan’s solid grasp of figure work and world building is no bad thing.

Colan, like Tuska back in #308, is another artist of the Golden Age. Both are filling in on quieter stories, and I probably had an adjustment to make from the all-action (or Adventure!) Legion from the main stories. Looking for the pacier story probably influenced my opinion of the back-ups, including the art a little.

As we pointed out lots of really positives in Tuska’s work, there’s as many in Colan’s. Both extremely versatile craftsmen, I think Colan’s art comes across as more stylised at first glance. “Moody” is the word I read most about his work. Later, I would be reading Detective Comics. There was a noir storyline going on there, leading up to dark conflicts against the crimson skies of Crisis. Colan’s artwork was a main reason that it was all so gripping. I’ve also liked the premise of Night Force. Again, Colan’s work on it is every bit as important as the premise, more so if the storyline starts to sag. I’ve a sneaky suspicion that the art was a lot stronger than the writing.

Picking up from the first story, Drake is looking for Dawnstar, who he knows is on a grand tour to find her life partner. Drake doesn’t exactly make a good impression on her parents. It seems that he can’t moderate his personality depending on the company. His own need to find Dawnstar overrides his need to be polite. He is aware of it as he apologies for appearing at a sacred site, but goes on regardless, as evidenced by his “Not to be rude” comment. Of course, if the age of admittance to the Legion is 18, then Drake isn’t as old as his original origin sometimes suggests. An example of this is his sarcastic use of “perfect guy.” It, and his posture (really well done by Colan) combines that tone with regret and his loneliness perfectly.

Dawnstar has told her parents of her bond with Wildfire. They are very aware of that relationship, treating him with a lot of respect. I think that they are a little torn themselves at the situation. There’s a mix of emotions form them. Dawny’s mother is both upset at the thought of Drake interrupting the tradition, and at the thought that “he is not even whole.” There’s no mention of Drake not being suitable due any cultural differences, which is nice. She’s concerned for her daughter’s happiness as much as for the tradition. After all, it’s Dawny’s mother who tells Drake where to find her. Although she tells Drake that it’s “too late” , there’s always that chance. The sense that destiny will provide the answers seems to calm Dawny’s father. It’s worth noting that it’s the females that go on the tours, so he will have a different perspective than Dawny’s mother.

As Dawny, never far from Legionnaire duty, saves a shuttle, she knows within herself that she’s already found her soul mate. I think that Dawny’s parents are also aware of this, considering how they treat Drake. Wildfire isn’t a little late to the realisation party either. He’s acting on it now, but no one really expressed the depth of their feelings before Dawny felt she had to go.

But will Drake make it to the church on time? The sunlight hits the clouds of Venus and Dawnstar waits for her destiny… only to have Wildfire’s hand rest on her shoulder. She doesn’t take it well. It a hugely important moment in her life. She might not be reconciled with her relationship with Drake, but she’s facing her future. And that moment has been taken from her.

Leaving aside the dodgy science, as the Legionverse has Cosmic King come from Venus, Dawny lets Drake say his piece rather than overheat the surface of Venus below.

It’s this scene that shows the difference in maturity between them. It’s actually something that could be found in any number of male heroes. Drake is reduced to threatening violence against Dawny’s future partner, if he doesn’t treat her well. That’s the best way he can express to her how much he’d like himself to have been that man.

Like parting Venusian clouds, Dawny sees right through this in a second. While Drake has been dealing with his self-worth and frustration, Dawny has been crying herself to sleep thinking that their relationship could never be. Dawny knows that Drake didn’t come to just apologise. “Even you know that’s true” she tells him. He came there to stop her. There’s a part of Dawny that moves beyond tradition to realise that this is what she wants too. Or rather, since she’ll never know what would have happened had Drake not interfered, she’s able to follow those feelings. She combines this with the traditions she has, when explaining it to her parents.

They are not only supportive, falling back into the feeling of destiny, but also provide the reader with a couple of plot teasers. The first will be later on in Tales, when Dawny does meet another man. And later, in the Baxter series, when Drake sort of gets a body.

I’m fairly sure that Dawny and Drake didn’t get up to much when he was inhabiting Dirk’s corpse in the TMK run. I’m not even attaching that to the above paragraph. Yuck! smile Inhabit the Prophet’s body Drake!

It’s a really interesting story that works across a number of levels and interpretations. It works clearly as a sci fi take on people having relationships across cultural/ religious/ perceived racial boundaries. It parallels the Gim/ Yera story with that theme.

The hand on the shoulder was supposed to be destiny showing itself. It’s a story that illustrates the old idea that some people are “meant” to be together across any hardship or boundary. It’s “destiny” that they’re meant to be together. But when one of the parties involved is determined to get to a certain conclusion, destiny can mean a lot of other things.

He fancies Dawny from the academy, and puts her on the team. He makes sure that he’s barely ever apart from her, and the two would become a two-person clique within the Legion. Then, when she’s fulfilling a key moment in her life, he can’t, and won’t, let her go. All of these things are about Drake. It’s a physical touch on her shoulder, followed by a damage causing expression of his powers, that stops Dawny. That has lots of disturbing real-world parallels.

There’s also another DC reminder that non-white cultures left Earth at various points.

There’s the coming of age of the two leads and the way that they express their feelings. Dawny gets to see the Drake in all those quieter moments when they’re on duty together. I’ve no doubt he has adolescent communication issues there too. But Dawny hopefully gets to see the heart that transcends its loss from his body, and the one we don’t get in the adventure issues.

It’s a beautifully drawn story. Colan gives us both the majestic sweep of the galaxy and the range of human emotion all in one tale.


"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
Re: Re-reading the Legion: Archives Volume 19
Fat Cramer #944227 02/11/18 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by HWW
When this issue came out, I couldn’t wait for more information on Lyle Norg. I had no way of knowing that Giffen had inserted the deceased Legionnaire into the previous story or that Levitz had already plotted 311; hence, the cursory mention of his return. Because I didn’t know the behind-the-scenes shenanigans (and, in truth, wouldn’t have cared), this issue came across as a big disappointment to me.

I mean, come on! A long-dead Legionnaire has returned and we don’t see him?! His teammates don’t rejoice that he's alive? They treat his appearance as matter-of-fact, as if he were simply recovering from a delusion. Vi got more sympathy without dying. Where’s the love for Lyle?


I only knew Lyle through these issues. I’ll be interested in your thoughts as this subplot develops, and also any thoughts on him from his earlier appearances.


Originally Posted by HWW
The absence of what I expected to happen overshadowed the rest of the story, which, even on re-read, is a rather pedestrian “Here’s what so-and-so was doing while the other Legionnaires were saving Khundia” yarn…. Computo was a major threat to both the Legion and humanity; that it is defeated so easily and domesticated seems off.


It does have a certain “Meanwhile” touch to it. Its isolation, which I read as “must show new HQ before Baxter”, doesn’t help. Why does no one consider this to be an escalation of the Khundian conflict?

It could, and possibly should, have been a longer story. But then, I found that the Annual, with the last big Computo appearance, had a lot of padding. So, I wasn’t too upset. Rahter what we had than a longer story, that still seemed rushed due to all the other things we discussed going on behind the scenes. Better short, than losing out on the Colan art in the second story too, really - Hindsight Lad smile

Brainy had a solution. It didn’t quite work, but he used his intelligence to quickly adapt. I think it was fairly important that his solution worked without risking any more lives to the thing he had created. It was a story of some closure for him. He could leave the final page with a sense of achievement.

As for the change to Computo, I saw it as a continuation of Levitz’s revamp/ progression of the major villains.
- The Infinite Man as a Trapper version.
- The Omen as a flip side to Darkseid
- The Prophet as version of Pulsar Stargrave, with a touch of the Servants.
- Mordru getting depowered, leading to some changes ahead for him.


Originally Posted by HWW
It probably never occured to him that his teammates—especially Lu and Chuck—might have a problem with one of their greatest enemies serving as their butler. To him, it’s a purely intellectual puzzle. This disconnect between how he sees Computo and how they see it could have been developed in subsequent stories, but, apart from the odd shiver as Computo pours lemonade or some such, I can’t recall it being addressed.


I agree that it never occurred to him. That’s one of the most enjoyable parts to the story. That laugh at the end. He’s solved the problem, but he hasn’t learned from it. As Lu was already shown as struggling to face Computo back in the Annual, we really should have seen more of her reaction to having a legacy of it at the heart of her organisation. I know I have for Bits smile

How long would it be before he does the same sort of thing? We do get an answer to this one. smile

Originally Posted by HWW
It’s always good to see Chuck and Lu again, and Chuck is put to good use here (especially in cushioning Brainy’s fall). Flynt Brojj and SP Captain Noname add nothing to the story.


I imagine Levitz being quite happy at pulling supporting cast from earlier stories, adding to the consistency of their world. Captain Stereotype also brings another hat into the Legion. I await EDE’s Hats of the Future review on this one fares! smile

Originally Posted by HWW
But my initial impression upon reading this story was that Brainy takes an awful lot of liberties by redesigning the headquarters without consulting anyone. Just how much authority/power does he have? Too much, it seems.


Querl: Look! Look at our wonderous new HQ!
Imra: Wow! It looks shiny and big and just like our srtits think the 32nd century is going to be!
Querl: Thanks1 OPf course, Computo had a hand, or rather a circuit, in the design.
Luornu: >retch<
Cos: Right. I’ll just get all our stuff out of storage and we can move back in.
Querl: Uh… stuff?
Cos: Sure, you know my 20th century antique collection, Garth’s cooking pots and Val’s priceless weapons of the ages collection. You know.. “stuff”
Querl: Um…. guys…

Originally Posted by HWW
“Destruction by Design” boasts a clever title, but the story, to me, is a piece of fluff with the redesign of the HQ being small consolation for the lack of character growth that might have been explored had Brainy actually learned something or Lu been forced to deal with her fear of Computo . . . or, heck, if Lyle Norg had put in an appearance.


It's interesting to hear your expectations, as an existing reader, for this one HWW. I’d agree with you on both. You saw Brainy not learning anything too. I’d say “great minds…”, but there’s probably just a malfunction in the nutrient feed to our brain tanks. smile


Originally Posted by HWW
Going by the chronology Levitz worked out in the Legion Sourcebook (and which he may or may not have adhered to in writing the series), about three years have passed since 209. Mon-El was leader at the time, and, since then, we've had three full terms (Wildfire, Lightning Lad/Element Lad, and Dream Girl), each representing one year. Also, in the backup story, Dawnstar is 18, and she was said to be 16 when she joined the Legion in 226, so the chronology holds up surprisingly well--Trivia Analysis Lad.


Good job TAL!

Originally Posted by HWW
Flynt does demonstrate a penchant for noticing things, and it's a shame his relationship with the Legion wasn't developed further. The Legion really needed more regular supporting characters.


I don wonder if it was exactly because Levitz wrote him as noticing things that gave TMK the idea to give him some sensory powers.


Originally Posted by HWW
Maybe it's just me, but I read more into her expression and Chuck's than in the reactions of the others. There's a sense of horror as well as disbelief in both of their eyes.

EDIT: I see from thoth's post that he saw horror in Lu's eyes, too.


Yeah, it’s that nutrient feed for sure… smile


"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
Re: Re-reading the Legion: Archives Volume 19
Fat Cramer #944228 02/11/18 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by HWW
I mentioned in my own thread that I was troubled by the Legion's matter-of-fact reaction to Lyle's return. Time and experience have put some of this in perspective, though. Not all of the Legionnaires were close friends, and, as we've seen in recent stories, some don't much like each other even though they are capable of working together. Lyle's only close friend we know of was Chem, and he, too, has passed away. So maybe the Legionnaires really don't have much of a reaction to Lyle's return. It's a sad thought.

However, they did serve with him for all those years and even regarded him highly enough to elect him leader. I would have expected some emotional response from them.


That is a sad thought. Did you have any sense for Lyle’s personality from older stories? I recall him talking to Tinya in his last issue, and him finding it easy to talk to her. That didn’t factor into his reappearance that I can remember.


Originally Posted by Cramer
Computo as cranky child. If Computo took on human attributes, as Brainy infers, it must have taken on the attributes of the 10-year old (?) girl who it inhabited, therefore emotionally immature. And possibly with a penchant for My Little Space Pony.


I remember Computo as being ranting and power mad the first time. I read it as Brainy winding it up on purpose, while he worked out his plan.

You must pitch your My Little Space Pony/ Legion of Super Pets idea to DC! Must! smile


Originally Posted by Cramer
Since both you and HWW mentioned the horror, I looked again at that panel and could say she and Chuck do indeed look more horrified than Flynn and the SP officers. To hit me over the head with that message, I would have had her passed out, or some other reaction, in the second panel showing the same faces. The Brainy insanity I don’t see so much, given how perfectly well-balanced he’s been throughout the issue (and previous issues). Any laugh from a super-genius does give one pause for reflection, however.


I’d have given Brainy another smug look after he finished his laugh… then have Lu go ballistic at him. After getting out all of her anger and some of her trauma, you’d find Brainy quickly contacting Colu for some funds to rebuild the HQ; minus any Computo influence over its construction. After sarcastically asking Brainy if he’d like little Omegas to wander round as servants, he gets in some basic AI models instead. smile

Later in the Baxter run, Brainy gives Lu his force field belt as the latest in a long line of apologies.

Originally Posted by Cramer
Good point about Brainy’s detachment from others’ emotional reactions. When Computo later took on the form of young Validus, Imra remarked that she was annoyed with Brainy for doing that and, IIRC, she considered that he did it on purpose to needle her.


Legion records show that Brainy quit the Legion after his trial. The truth is that Imra put him in traction after the Validus major-domos appeared. smile

Originally Posted by Cramer
They missed an opportunity to have him reflect on his own ego, just as he points out Computo’s failings are a result of ego. Or he could have remarked what a difficult challenge this was, even for him, and he wished Kara was there to celebrate with him.


That’s all three of us in the brain tanks then… smile


"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
Re: Re-reading the Legion: Archives Volume 19
Fat Cramer #944234 02/11/18 12:24 PM
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Lots of well put, thoughtful points in your post HWW. There really is a lot under the surface of this story, including issues around religion – both personal and organised, sex, culture, gender, family, self-expression, youth & maturity, love, relationships and duty.

No wonder it stands the test of time, and possibly just gets better as some of the readers get older.


"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
Re: Re-reading the Legion: Archives Volume 19
Fat Cramer #944235 02/11/18 12:28 PM
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If The Gim/Yera story is "Guess Who's Coming to Dinner?" and the Drake/ Dawny story is "The Graduate" then I wonder...hang on... it's the phone...Oi Levitz! It's Mort on the line. He wants to know if you could do something with Moby Dick... possibly a cross generational tale with a powered Cham & RJ? Giffen wants those wacky Subs in it and to call it "A Whale of a Time" ... Paul...Paul... smile


"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
Re: Re-reading the Legion: Archives Volume 19
thoth lad #944260 02/11/18 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by thoth lad

Did you have any sense for Lyle’s personality from older stories? I recall him talking to Tinya in his last issue, and him finding it easy to talk to her. That didn’t factor into his reappearance that I can remember.


My standout memory of Lyle is from Adventure 351. As Legion leader, he agreed that the Legion would not try to find out the real identities of new members Sir Prize and Miss Terious. When Ultra Boy tries to violate that promise by using his pentra-vision to see through their lead masks, Lyle punches Jo in the chin. When the leader makes a promise, Lyle says, he makes it for the entire Legion. So, not only did he have a sense of ethics, he also asserted his authority by standing up to a much more powerful Legionnaire.

Four issues earlier, when he assumes the leadership, Lyle announces he won't waste time making a speech. Instead, he immediately leads the Legion to participate in a charity event or some such.

In Adv. 358, Lyle is the last Legionnaire standing against the Hunter. He's there when the villain is killed by one of his own traps.

Lyle came across as a decisive and no-nonsense leader who recognized what needed to be done and did it. In other stories, before and after he was leader, he received less attention. However, he does have a solo scene in the super-stalag story (Adv. .344-345), in which he tries to use his invisibility to escape from the prison camp. Caught, he is shrunk to tiny size as punishment and has to evade a spider in order to survive. He demonstrates resilience and ingenuity with or without his power.

But such spotlights were rare. My first encounter with Lyle, in fact, was in my first Legion story, Adv. 328 (reprinted in LSH v.1, # 1); he shows Triplicate Girl the Legion planetarium he invented, and they chuckle as two robot duplicates of former Legion enemies argue. Lyle plays no other role in the story and doesn't even get to demonstrate his power when Command Kid shows up; nevertheless, invisibility was a very attractive power to me at a young age--and Lyle wore a headband, which made him seem cool.

Superboy 203 rounds out his personality even further by showing how lonely he is: He falls in love with a girl from another dimension and even neglects his duty while seeing her. But Lyle is hopeful that, whatever secret she carries, they can be together. The end of this story suggests this is what happens--and that's why I've always thought his demise was one of the best super-hero deaths ever written: It maintained a sense of hope and faith in something beyond life.

These various aspects of Lyle's personality--the decisive leader, the otherwise loner--made him quite an intriguing character to me. I tried to expand on these characteristics in one of the few fanfics I've written, "Myriad"

By the way, it is indeed a shame that his friendship with Tinya was not followed up on during his "resurrection." It's one of the details from the Legion's past that Levitz failed to revisit. shake


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Re: Re-reading the Legion: Archives Volume 19
Fat Cramer #944265 02/11/18 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Fat Cramer


The very atmospheric Gene Colan art suits this story of Dawnstar’s spiritual journey. It’s a good change of pace from the frenetic art of the Omen/Prophet arc. Although it’s not a look I’d expect for more action-oriented stories, it works here, delivering the sense of speed and movement when needed. There’s a great shot of Wildfire skidding to a stop as he lands on Starhaven, just like coming to a fast stop at the bottom of a ski slope, and many scenes which impart the speed of flight. Dawnstar and Wildfire meeting in space looks like a weightless, high speed ballet.


Wonderful way of describing Colan's art in this story. The outer space scenes do indeed appear to be a ballet. smile

Originally Posted by thoth
The hand on the shoulder was supposed to be destiny showing itself. It’s a story that illustrates the old idea that some people are “meant” to be together across any hardship or boundary. It’s “destiny” that they’re meant to be together. But when one of the parties involved is determined to get to a certain conclusion, destiny can mean a lot of other things.


Very interesting take on that image of his hand on her shoulder. To me, it was just a throwaway image--but I can see how it can be interpreted to mean much more.

Quote
He fancies Dawny from the academy, and puts her on the team. He makes sure that he’s barely ever apart from her, and the two would become a two-person clique within the Legion. Then, when she’s fulfilling a key moment in her life, he can’t, and won’t, let her go. All of these things are about Drake. It’s a physical touch on her shoulder, followed by a damage causing expression of his powers, that stops Dawny. That has lots of disturbing real-world parallels.


Also another very interesting take on Drake's actions over the years. smile On one hand, Drake is decisive--he knows what he wants and he goes after it, but he can also go too far. I think Dawny was a good match for him. She was decisive and stubborn in her own ways. They balanced each other.

Quote
It could, and possibly should, have been a longer story. But then, I found that the Annual, with the last big Computo appearance, had a lot of padding. So, I wasn’t too upset.


Yes, I was glad it wasn't longer. smile

Quote
You must pitch your My Little Space Pony/ Legion of Super Pets idea to DC! Must! smile


This. Must. Happen. laugh

Quote
I agree that it never occurred to him. That’s one of the most enjoyable parts to the story. That laugh at the end. He’s solved the problem, but he hasn’t learned from it.


This is a really good point. If Levitz's intent was to show that Brainy really didn't learn anything, he should have made this clearer. Contrary to what I wrote to Cramey above, it is occasionally necessary for the writer to hit the reader over the head--especially when the central character of a story is supposed to undergo a change. The contrast between this story and the second one is very strong. Dawny does learn something, and this is clear in her dialogue at the beginning of the story and at the end. Brainy fails to learn, but it's unclear if this was the writer's intention. Brainy just laughs maniacally, leaving us to wonder what the point of it all was.

Quote
That’s all three of us in the brain tanks then… smile


Maybe Legion fans are just smart and come to similar conclusions. hmmm

Quote
Lots of well put, thoughtful points in your post HWW.


Thanks!




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Re: Re-reading the Legion: Archives Volume 19
Fat Cramer #944295 02/12/18 12:20 PM
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Re: Lu’s horror – I mentioned a hit over the head scene because I missed the look of horror - and agree that fainting would be too cliché. I like Thoth’s proposal that she go ballistic on Brainy. An older Lu would/will do something like that; at this point, she’ll probably just avoid the HQ. (Future issues will tell.)

HWW’s review of “A Shared Destiny” was moving and inspirational, in that it captured the highest meaning of the story, that love transcends tradition and physical constraints; it also illustrates Dawnstar’s maturity.

I read the story more in the context of all the drama that will follow this couple. She’s your girlfriend who marries the guy everyone is opposed to, and she’s on the phone complaining about him or showing up on your doorstep after they’ve fought and all you can do is listen and pour another cup of tea. She’ll always go back to him because she loves him. It’s not battered woman syndrome or anything awful like that, it’s just a relationship that you don’t quite understand, but works for her.

Originally Posted by thoth
It’s a really interesting story that works across a number of levels and interpretations. It works clearly as a sci fi take on people having relationships across cultural/ religious/ perceived racial boundaries. It parallels the Gim/ Yera story with that theme.

The hand on the shoulder was supposed to be destiny showing itself. It’s a story that illustrates the old idea that some people are “meant” to be together across any hardship or boundary. It’s “destiny” that they’re meant to be together. But when one of the parties involved is determined to get to a certain conclusion, destiny can mean a lot of other things.


The Gim/Yera parallel didn’t come to mind when I read this but it does bear comparison. Both sets of parents show some hesitation but ultimately accept their offspring’s choice of mate. As for destiny, Drake is surely one who believes that you make your own luck. Good thing Calamity King wasn’t passing by Venus at the time.

Originally Posted by HWW
Superboy 203 rounds out his personality even further by showing how lonely he is: He falls in love with a girl from another dimension and even neglects his duty while seeing her. But Lyle is hopeful that, whatever secret she carries, they can be together. The end of this story suggests this is what happens--and that's why I've always thought his demise was one of the best super-hero deaths ever written: It maintained a sense of hope and faith in something beyond life.

These various aspects of Lyle's personality--the decisive leader, the otherwise loner--made him quite an intriguing character to me. I tried to expand on these characteristics in one of the few fanfics I've written, "Myriad"

By the way, it is indeed a shame that his friendship with Tinya was not followed up on during his "resurrection." It's one of the details from the Legion's past that Levitz failed to revisit.


The happy ending despite death was indeed one of the best super-hero deaths and it made what has followed something of a desecration of Lyle Norg. I do wonder what sort of character he would have become if this return-to-life had somehow been made real. We’ll see as we read ahead, but I recall Lyle just hanging out in Jacques’ quarters and not talking to anyone else. Tinya would have been a natural choice as someone with whom he could speak.


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Re: Re-reading the Legion: Archives Volume 19
Fat Cramer #944305 02/12/18 06:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Cramer
Re: Lu’s horror – I mentioned a hit over the head scene because I missed the look of horror - and agree that fainting would be too cliché. I like Thoth’s proposal that she go ballistic on Brainy. An older Lu would/will do something like that; at this point, she’ll probably just avoid the HQ. (Future issues will tell.)


I was reminded of her recent guilt over not helping when Computo broke free in the annual. With that being so raw for her, I thought it would result in her expressing exactly what she thought of Brainy. There would be something more satisfying in it coming from a single Lu, rather than it possibly being explained away as being a personality trait of one of her duplicates later on.

Originally Posted by Cramer
The Gim/Yera parallel didn’t come to mind when I read this but it does bear comparison. Both sets of parents show some hesitation but ultimately accept their offspring’s choice of mate.


It would have been interesting to have at least one parent who didn’t accept their child’s decision. Having all four follow a similar path, while showing their maturity limits some story potential.


Originally Posted by Cramer
Drake is surely one who believes that you make your own luck. Good thing Calamity King wasn’t passing by Venus at the time.


Venus would have blown up if Calamity King was passing. Drake would have used it as a sign for Dawny to look for a new direction, thus proving your point about making his own luck. smile

Originally Posted by Cramer
The happy ending despite death was indeed one of the best super-hero deaths and it made what has followed something of a desecration of Lyle Norg. I do wonder what sort of character he would have become if this return-to-life had somehow been made real. We’ll see as we read ahead, but I recall Lyle just hanging out in Jacques’ quarters and not talking to anyone else. Tinya would have been a natural choice as someone with whom he could speak.


That’s how I remember things going too. Thanks to HWW for the comments on Lyle from earlier years. I am curious to see the reaction as the returned Norg’s subplot unfolds, or rather doesn’t.


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Re: Re-reading the Legion: Archives Volume 19
Fat Cramer #944382 02/14/18 02:27 AM
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#312 Good Cop, Bad Cop by Paul Levitz & Keith Giffen, art by Giffen, Inks by Karl Kesel, Colours by Carl Gafford, Letters John Costanza

[Linked Image]

Dirk is in Gigi’s apartment, admiring her 23rd century detective novels. He annoys her by saying they don’t have anything to do with modern policing, but diverts her with a kiss. An SP alert interrupts them, as all officers are ordered to Metropolis Stadium. Dirk flies her there, apparently smashing through a window which he claims the Legion will pay for.

There’s panic at the Stadium following some explosions. Gim and Yera are on site, along with Jan and Shvaughn who had been there on a date. Drones fly in, spraying tranqui-mist but the crowd is still unruly as Zendak arrives with a complement of officers.

At Legion HQ, Brainy talks to himself, admiring the new facility but has trouble debugging the Mission Monitor Board. Blok joins him and observes that a team is leaving for Daxam repair work, which he decides to join to take his mind off his injuries. Brainy notices the stadium alarm and is surprised to see the situation is a riot.

At the stadium, after several hours, everything is quiet. Shvaughn says that Zendak did have a warning and followed procedures; Zendak admits that this is the first time procedures failed and asks for the Legion’s help. They proceed to SP Headquarters, where each person is scanned. Zendak claims that the computer which assesses threats may have been tampered with.

On Medicus One, Violet leaves, against Dr. Gym’ll’s advice, and thinks to herself that she has some scores to settle.

Gigi monitors the Crimewatcher program, which reports a number of minor incidents around Metropolis. Gigi wonders if Earth really needs 100 SP officers. Shvaughn arrives with two new transfers, who Gigi recognizes as Gim and Jan, despite their distorters, since Gim is an old friend of hers. The two Legionnaires are to work undercover. Then the receive an all-points alert.

Bombs have exploded on Restaurant Row, causing many fires and scores of casualties. Help arrives as Rokk, Tinya and Jacques join the officers. Shvaughn implores Jan to help put out the fires, but he doesn’t want to blow his cover and claims that he’s already done something. That something was a call to Superboy, who quickly extinguishes the fires.

The restaurant owners had received an extortion threat, but didn’t report it. The Stadium was also blackmailed, but the SPs didn’t release that information. Gigi expects this is only the beginning. Mysa performs a spell, despite Zendak’s skepticism, to try and get an image of who hacked the computer. An image appears but the face can not be made clear, although it seems to be an SP officer.

At Legion HQ, Brainy and Superboy share a game of Galaxowar. When Kal mentions Supergirl, Brainy blushes and loses his concentration, allowing Kal to win. Jacques and Danielle enter to say goodbye as Danielle is returning home. Danielle hugs Brainy. As she leaves, sparks appear at the portal, leaving Brainy wondering.

In a fancy penthouse, a man talks to some sort of egg-shaped computer, saying that they’re ready to reap the rewards as they begin the third stage of their campaign.

Zendak is shocked to receive a 10-minute warning that a bomb will explode in the SP Armory. Mysa is trying to detect the explosives, but the bomb explodes and is only contained by Kal, Rokk and Jan. Zendak is distressed, admitting that President Allon will be dead at noon unless a million credit ransom is paid.

At Legion HQ, Garth and Imra prepare to leave until the baby is born.

Comments:
This straightforward story about terrorist activities (bomb 1, bomb 2, meet the villain(s), blackmail threat cliffhanger) serves as a platform for a lot of character moments and information about 30th century Earth. It’s the character interaction and Enclyclopedia entries that I found the most interesting.

Jan and Gim going are undercover is unnecessary to the plot. They don’t do any undercover investigation. The only justification is to give Jan a reason to not use his power to quell the fire, thereby opening the door for a Superboy ex machina resolution. That Zendak has confidence in the Legion is shown by him consulting them and allowing Mysa, on Jan’s advice, to cast some spells. Interestingly, Mysa doesn’t provide any miracle solutions; she only gets a rough image of the bomber and fails to detect the armory explosives (her concentration is interrupted by the others’ bickering).

It’s rare to see any reference to the period between the 20th and 30th centuries, so I enjoyed the 23rd century detective novels (on paper no less). I wish we could have seen some titles. Gym’ll collects ancient comics – how much of Earth’s paper artifacts remain?

Dirk puts his moves on Gigi and flies her to the stadium, but drops out of the story after that, which struck me as odd - just as he dropped out of the Prophet story on Khundia. I would fear he’s being typecast as the team Romeo, and not much else.

The villain is ordinary-looking to the point of comical and talks like a super-villain; his computer companion/servant is mysterious. Shades of Brainy and Computo! Although the title refers to a bad cop, it's not clear if this is the bad cop or "Mr. Big" - and the bad cop has yet to be revealed.

Lots of future story set-up: the sparks around Danielle Foccart, Blok’s injuries, the Daxam repair team, Gigi’s old acquaintance with Gim, Violet ready to settle scores, Supergirl kept in the picture as romantic partner for Brainy, Garth and Imra on extended leave, possible problems with the Mission Monitor Board (Computo related perhaps?).

No comments from the Legionnaires on the shiny new HQ, apart from Brainy’s own self-congratulations and big plans (fly it into space! maybe that was maniacal laughter in the last issue), nor on the return of Lyle Norg. There’s only so much you can fit in an issue.


Holy Cats of Egypt!
Re: Re-reading the Legion: Archives Volume 19
Fat Cramer #944446 02/14/18 09:26 PM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 24,141
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312:

The cover of this issue promises a spotlight on the Science Police, with the unidentified officer (Dvron?) front and center, and Dirk and Jan flanking him with grim expressions. Whoever is being arrested is in deep doo-doo.

The story follows through on that promise by featuring Gigi, Zendak, and Shvaughn in starring roles, and bringing back the long-forgotten Dvron (from Superboy 207 and 231) for good measure. The Legionnaires take supporting roles—Dirk as Gigi’s date, Jan and Gim going undercover, and others popping in as needed. The story involves a blackmailer who sets off bombs in public places, and who even targets the SP armory and the president. To make the stakes personal, it looks like an SP officer is in cahoots with the blackmailer.

All very good so far. The story rounds out the Legion’s supporting cast and provides more insight into their world: Because automated SP drones take care of petty crimes such as art theft and tax evasion, only about 100 officers are stationed on earth at a time, and only a dozen in Metropolis. Even earth’s weather is regulated, reducing, I suppose, the need to respond to accidents and natural disasters. This glimpse of earth as a technological paradise seemed much more innocent in 1984; with the prevalence of technology these days, the reduction of the number of human beings responding to emergencies and arresting criminals might make the world a colder, impersonal, and harsher place. Chilling visions from the movie Minority Report—in which individuals are arrested and sentenced before they commit crimes—come to mind.

However, these possibilities are only hinted at in the story. The SP relies on a spiffy “central data-system” to predict the likelihood of crime threats being real or hoaxes, but, when the central data-system is tampered with, everything falls apart. Enter the Legionnaires, at Zendak’s request, to investigate.

I’m not sure if the chief requests their help willingly or grudgingly—and I like that ambiguity. I picture Zendak as a proud officer but one who knows his limits and is willing to ask for help, even if he grits his teeth while doing so. He’s impatient with the White Witch and dismissive toward her magic. Zendak doesn’t like relinquishing control, but he behaves in a mostly professional manner.

Gigi and Shvaughn have less to do, but we get some details and hints of Gigi’s past.

The villain reminds me of the fireballers back in 297-298; there seems to be a rash of these types of crimes on earth, just as there are all-too-frequent mass shootings in the modern world. If Levitz had developed this theme further, he could have explored the reasons why there are such similar crimes, and perhaps connect them to the political unrest on Imsk. The 30th century is not the perfect society, after all, but we get only hints of this.

While the story’s premise has a lot to offer, these ideas are muted or introduced and discarded because of the necessity of inserting the Legionnaires into the story. I feel this should be an SP-only tale, as the heroes only get in the way. I’m willing to hold out to see what undercover Jan and Gim do next issue, but, right now, they don’t accomplish much. The White Witch, in a cliched twist, comes only so close to revealing the bomber’s face. (Gotta prolong the drama.) Jan looks stupid when he questions how Zendak knew the bombing at the stadium would happen, and Dirk reminds us that the Legionnaires don’t give a fig about property damage because their “budget” will cover it.

The Legionnaires seem comically out of place in what should be a straight police procedural.

Once again, the subplots prove to be more interesting and focused than the main story. Superboy beats Brainiac 5 in a game by distracting him (unintentionally?) with a mention of Kara. Danielle Foccart is cured and leaves for home, though something odd happens as she walks through a portal. Vi checks out of Medicus One early so she can settle scores. Garth and Imra take family leave and tease one another. It’s always great to see our heroes just being human, and, if a subplot or two can be advanced, so much the better.

The art varies in quality. Many pages and panels are well designed and move the story along, especially the opening scene with Dirk and Gigi. In fact, just about any scene that features Gigi stands out. The focus on her shows how much effort Levitz and Giffen spent in developing her character and look. I almost feel this should be her story, but she doesn’t contribute much to the action.

On the other hand, some images should have been better thought out. Is Colossal Boy falling down at the bottom of Page 3, or is he leaning and kicking the crowd with his boot? And why would you have a giant character wade into a panicking crowd in the first place? Why on earth (or Durla) does Yera take the shape of a turkey?! When Vi appears, it’s not clear that she’s getting dressed at tiny size. When she returns to normal size, it looks like Dr. Gym’ll is trying to stomp on her when he’s probably jumping out of her way.

As for the title, “Good Cop, Bad Cop?”—I assume the bad cop is the bomber/saboteur, but why the question mark?

This story has a lot of potential, but it lacks the focus and depth of earlier Levitz/Giffen offerings. It seems like Levitz was trying to stretch himself and the Legion’s world by focusing on the SP, but then he couldn’t decide how the Legionnaires should factor into the story. The cliffhanger—where Colossal Boy’s mom is revealed to be the next target—builds nicely off what has been established before. However, it highlights the fact that Gim hasn’t had much else to contribute to the story.


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The Semi-Great Gildersleeve - writing, super-heroes, and this 'n' that
Re: Re-reading the Legion: Archives Volume 19
Fat Cramer #944580 02/17/18 07:10 AM
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Originally Posted by HWW
The story follows through on that promise by featuring Gigi, Zendak, and Shvaughn in starring roles, and bringing back the long-forgotten Dvron (from Superboy 207 and 231) for good measure. The Legionnaires take supporting roles - Dirk as Gigi's date, Jan and Gim going undercover, and others popping in as needed.


It is more of a Science Police than a Legion story, a nice change of pace. Unlike the later SP mini-series, we’ve got known characters, which makes a big difference in the interest/engagement level.

Quote
All very good so far. The story rounds out the Legion's supporting cast and provides more insight into their world: Because automated SP drones take care of petty crimes such as art theft and tax evasion, only about 100 officers are stationed on earth at a time, and only a dozen in Metropolis. Even earth's weather is regulated, reducing, I suppose, the need to respond to accidents and natural disasters. This glimpse of earth as a technological paradise seemed much more innocent in 1984; with the prevalence of technology these days, the reduction of the number of human beings responding to emergencies and arresting criminals might make the world a colder, impersonal, and harsher place. Chilling visions from the movie Minority Report -in which individuals are arrested and sentenced before they commit crimes - come to mind.


Just noticed the year, 1984. Appropriate – but as you point out, a much more innocent portrayal of police surveillance technology. I hadn’t thought about it until you mentioned it, but the low number of human cops would have a lot of ramifications. Certainly colder and more impersonal, but with so few police officers, they must all be well known, possibly celebrities in their own right.

Quote
I'm not sure if the chief requests their help willingly or grudgingly - and I like that ambiguity. I picture Zendak as a proud officer but one who knows his limits and is willing to ask for help, even if he grits his teeth while doing so. He's impatient with the White Witch and dismissive toward her magic. Zendak doesn't like relinquishing control, but he behaves in a mostly professional manner.


Ambiguity is a good word for it and may reflect the state of Zendak’s mind. He’s not sure himself if he wants the Legionnaires helping. I liked the line about the tooth fairy not being available.

Quote
The villain reminds me of the fireballers back in 297-298; there seems to be a rash of these types of crimes on earth, just as there are all-too-frequent mass shootings in the modern world. If Levitz had developed this theme further, he could have explored the reasons why there are such similar crimes, and perhaps connect them to the political unrest on Imsk. The 30th century is not the perfect society, after all, but we get only hints of this.


That would have been an interesting development, to explore the proliferation of bombings. As it stands, I had the impression it was more of a recycled plot idea.

Quote
The story's premise has a lot to offer, these ideas are muted or introduced and discarded because of the necessity of inserting the Legionnaires into the story. I feel this should be an SP-only tale, as the heroes only get in the way.


Agreed!

Quote
Once again, the subplots prove to be more interesting and focused than the main story. Superboy beats Brainiac 5 in a game by distracting him (unintentionally?) with a mention of Kara. Danielle Foccart is cured and leaves for home, though something odd happens as she walks through a portal. Vi checks out of Medicus One early so she can settle scores. Garth and Imra take family leave and tease one another. It's always great to see our heroes just being human, and, if a subplot or two can be advanced, so much the better.


These scenes are good combination of character moments and moving these various stories forward.

Quote
The art varies in quality. Many pages and panels are well designed and move the story along, especially the opening scene with Dirk and Gigi. In fact, just about any scene that features Gigi stands out. The focus on her shows how much effort Levitz and Giffen spent in developing her character and look. I almost feel this should be her story, but she doesn't contribute much to the action.


I read somewhere that Gigi was based on Paul’s wife, but don’t know if that’s true or to what degree the comparison might hold – appearance, personality? She doesn’t do much action-wise, but I had the impression (in this and earlier issues) that she’s a rising star.

Quote
On the other hand, some images should have been better thought out. Is Colossal Boy falling down at the bottom of Page 3, or is he leaning and kicking the crowd with his boot? And why would you have a giant character wade into a panicking crowd in the first place? Why on earth (or Durla) does Yera take the shape of a turkey?! When Vi appears, it's not clear that she's getting dressed at tiny size. When she returns to normal size, it looks like Dr. Gym'll is trying to stomp on her when he's probably jumping out of her way.


Yera didn’t know turkeys can’t fly. Must have done another change right after that. I also thought that Gym’ll was stomping his feet (not necessarily on her), he’s so given to bad moods when Legionnaires are around.


Holy Cats of Egypt!
Re: Re-reading the Legion: Archives Volume 19
Fat Cramer #944594 02/17/18 03:43 PM
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Posts: 31,440
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An effective cover has an updated Science Police officer seemingly breaking the fourth wall to arrest the reader. Flaking him are two, grim faced, not to be messed with Legionnaires. Dirk and Jan look older here, showing that you’re being arrested by seasoned heroes, and not the teens form earlier years. Giffen highlights the figures by having them stand in front of a flat, blue coloured portal, and the Logo sits very nicely in the doorway design.

The splash page doesn’t have a big action moment in it and, containing a police officer and a Legionnaire, sums up the relationships we’ll see through the rest of the story. Giffen gives us a single central panel that is the start of the story, rather than a teaser of anything that’s coming up and the title gets a lot of space on either side.

At first I thought GiGi window looked out across to an old Legion HQ. Which would say a lot about her roommates’ stalker tendencies. But it might actually be a desk ornament.

For all of Giffen’s experimentation in Omen/Prophet the overall art is excellent here. He has updated everyone’s fashion. By giving us what our cast wear when out of uniform, he’s beginning the road towards showing us little else by the time of the 5YG.

GiGi is young, feisty and quick to rise to confrontation. Dirk seems to be the older, more mature and worldly part of the couple. As a result, GiGi is baited and then lost to Dirk charisma. Our man of action uses it to get away with dismissing GiGis book collection (which represents why she became an officer) and to show off how heroic he is. You can see that he’ll have been in a lot of unbalanced relationships. He was like that when he met GiGi too, when he showed off as he flew away to a mission.

There are clear links with the Dirk shown here and the personality he had at the start of v4. He As he flies off, Dirk is happy and ready for his Legionnaire duties. It’s a shame all those broken windows would catch up with the Legion and him later on.

This could have been the start of a slightly different Clark/Lois relationship and it’s a nice scene.

The two had been interrupted (in typical comic style) by a summons to the stadium. There, they meet up with Jan, Gim, Shvaughn and Yera who were on a double date. An explosion has occurred and the attendees are rioting.

Giffen has drawn Gim in a horizontal panel, braced between two bits of the stadium structure. It’s an odd looking panel as it looks as though Gim will crush people if he falls on them. Levitz thinks so too, having one of the crowd say as much. Perhaps Giffen is trying to show that Gim has created a safe break between two large groups about to crash into each other. His little reaction panels go some way to show the chaos.

It’s unkind to think that Jan caused this just to get out of a double date in which he would be out of his depth. smile He covers the area of explosion in inertron. In comics, there are no wounded near explosions, allowing heroes to cut off oxygen supplies without fear of killing anyone. Yera follows Gim’s advice and goes small and flighty for safety. It would have been an opportunity to see the beginnings of Chameleon Girl, but she’s strictly supporting cast. Erin must also have thought a date with Jan would go wrong. She’s brought along her uniform and the new helmet we saw on the cover

Fortunately, the SPs also have drone deployed Tranqui-mist for just such emergencies. I’m sure they’ve never been used for political unrest or anything like that smile Giffen gets points for showing us practical technology from the 31st century regarding the use of drones.

The new Legion HQ shows up as we see Brainy debug the spiffy MMB. Blok, seeing that his function of explaining things is under threat from Giffen’s very influential visuals, tells use where everyone is anyway. We see the effects of the Omen’s blast on him, and he describes them as injuries. Brainy’s clothing is a bit dishevelled looking, in another forerunner to the TMK volume. By the time Brainy finally gets footage of the riot, it’s out of date. Back to the debugging for him.

Back at the stadium, a huge bit of Legion Lore is hinted at. That there are Control Bunkers in Moopsball. smile Erin was not only dragging date shy Jan out into the world, but she was also sort of on duty as the SPs had received a bomb threat. The SPs scans for explosives have failed. Probably more worryingly for our Orwellian pals, is that the scans they routinely carry out on the population’s comms have also not picked up anything. Zendak isn’t slow to ask for some Legion assistance.

The group return to SPHQ, where, after some Giffen tech visuals and retina scans, they’re told that there’s been internal tampering of the SPs programmes. In such a computer-controlled world (a computer is involved in presidential elections, not to mention all the oppressive toys) it brings home some chilling thoughts. In the years since this was published this story has only become more relevant.

Jan doesn’t come across well as leader. Zendak had to tell him he was in the Omen story. So far this issue, Erin has to explain to a stuttering Jan what Zendak meant when he said they knew about the blast and his “oh” as the implications set in doesn’t inspire a lot of confidence.

Following months of having been physically and mentally abused in a sens-tank, seeing a stripped Vi never strikes me as appropriate. Like the Drake hand on Dawny’s shoulder, last issue, there’s comic book shorthand going on. Here, Vi is putting on a new identity as well as a new uniform. She leaves to settle some scores. Vi had been shown as focused and determined back in the Adventure days, and this personality goes back to that. Her leaving in a ship to a new chapter in her life was also replicated at the start of the TMK run.

Back in the main plot, we learn that the weather control system can be used even if it results in some adverse effects on the population below. Levitz or Giffen had been reading some 2000AD comics to give us a flavour of that, particularly with the future shocked Batman. We also learn that the Crimewatcher programme monitors the conversation of all criminals. Those will be the criminals that haven’t been convicted and are citizens like anyone else. I’m sure this is never misused. smile Such technology is why there’s only 100 SPs on Earth.
Erin arrives to introduce two new recruits who will be helping on the case. GGi recognises Gim’s voice even with a distorter on him. We’d later learn of their SP connection. Gim has been with the Legion since he was a kid. Perhaps he was a little older than the other kids, or the SP have a training programme for the really young.

The other recruit is Jan-I -Am-Curious-Black-Arrah. Don’t worry stockists! We don’t actually have a black character in here! This guy’s really white! Fear Not! All the other black people are still on Marzal except for Token Lad Jacques and his immediate family/friends! Just Ugh! It’s even in an issue featuring Officer Dvron, who was supposed to be black until it had to be changed. Double Ugh! While it’s probably Levitz trying to sneak a black character into the story, that he had to do it at all, and the way it was done says volumes about DC.

HQ is alerted to another blast, this time on Restaurant Row. I note that McDonalds has survived into the 30th century. I guess Levitz/Giffen didn’t read the Burger Wars issues of 2000AD. The rebreathers used by the Science Police are remarkably similar to the ones used by criminals on Judge Dredd’s Titan though. smile

Fortunately, the damage here is lessened as Rokk, Jacques and Tinya are on the scene. Jan loses lots of points by putting his disguise above the lives of people at the scene. Even a limited power could have saved people. Instead, he called in Deus Ex Machina Lad! Superboy whirls in from the 20th century to mop up.

Kal might as well call himself Cameo Lad. He looks even more out of place than usual. He used to be the main character in the Legion-verse. Now he’s just brought on for what’s a minor threat in the Legion scheme of things. Jan says that “not many Legionnaires could handle this” but there are quite a few. Like a lot of older characters making recent appearances, it’s nice to see him but he’s a bit under utilised in pushing the main plot forward. The McDonald’s “M” makes another appearance in the rubble.

There’s a big missed opportunity to have Rokk more involved in this. It’s hard to think he wouldn’t want to be part of things after what happened to his family, in the fireballing.

We learn that both blasts came after extortion attempts were ignored. Mysa is brought in, at Jan’s suggestion, to determine the culprit. It’s once of those scenes where her powers almost work…but not quite. Dawnstar has a lot of these scenes too. It would seem that the bickering around her puts her off. You’d think they could just clear the room. There’s just enough of a result to establish that it is an inside job.

Elsewhere, Superboy beats Brainy at galaxo-war. Brainy is still very distracted over Kara, continuing his moments while trying to solve Danielle Foccart’s problems. It’s a very slow build on this one, especially as we’re not seeing much of Kara. I wonder if this was Levitz just waiting to see what Kara’s fate was going to be behind the scenes. They couldn’t really be telling Julie Schwartz to cancel his plans for a Superboy/ Supergirl book while having Kara appear over in the Legion.

Danielle and Jacques both appear to say thanks and goodbye to Brainy after all his work to help her. It another missed opportunity to have Jacques react to the arrival of Lyle. This could have been the scene where Jacques takes some leave to think about his future, or a scene where Lyle, Brainy and Jacques interact. But again, there’s behind the scenes reasons for this one too. The Baxter book is only a couple of months away now.

We do get a hint that Danielle now has some sort of power that interacts with technology. It would be a long time before we’d see more of that one.

Surprisingly for a mystery, we get a scene showing the smug culprit boast about his success and tell the reader that he will be making a further two threats. His interaction with his drone bot is funny without it injecting too much comedy into he story. I think was added just to break up the warning-blast-reaction routine that the rest of the issue was falling into. It also changes the story dynamic from the mystery behind the blasts to how will our heroes capture the man responsible.

The next attack is against the SP’s own armoury. The bomb does go off, but the debris handled by the powerful Kal and Rokk (still no fireballing mention). Inside, Jan has protected them all using another inertron dome. With yet another threat carried out, Zendak must now go and tell President Allon that the next threat is against her life.

It’s supposed to be the cliffhanger, but it’s moved out of place by another Imra-and-Garth-on-a-satellite-scene. Well, it’s actually a corridor in Legion HQ, but could easily have been Medicus -1. The couple are taking a leave of absence due to Imra’s pregnancy. They could have gone through the Legion HQ reminiscing about the triumph and tragedies they have faced there. But Brainy blew all that up, along with their personal belongings, last issue. smile

It’s nice to have a full-length issue again, but the pacing seems to be a little stretched. There’s probably one too many blasts scenes in there. We get the closure of the Danielle Foccart storyline, and it’s nice to see that a plot hook left in there. The Brainy/Kara one also continues, even if a bit under the radar due probably to the upcoming Crisis. The Dirk/GiGi relationship has potential.

But there are missed opportunities. Rokk having to deal with multiple blasts in Metropolis after what happened to his family; Jacques leaving without a mention of Lyle; having SPs of other ethnic groups; Yera pre-Chameleon Girl.

It’s good to see Vi back, and this would be the Vi that I would first start reading. I had previously thought that Levitz had all but abandoned her after her time in the sens-tank. But that wasn’t actually the case. In fairness, we did get her mentioned and she did show up in a panel when Wildfire was checking up on the status of his colleagues. In a book with this size of cast, that’s probably as good as it gets. In the Wildfire scene, we’re told that she’d be back soon. Heck, she even voted in the election. It’s what’s happening with Lyle that tells me what’s wrong. We don’t see anyone visit her. There’s no personal contact at all. Lyle is in the same position, but even more isolated due to the way he was brought back.



As I mentioned above, this is another very good issue art-wise. We get a lot more of the future fashions as well as progression on the technology of the 30th century. It all helps to support the story which itself revolves around the exploitation of that technology. Giffen’s use of little reaction panels pay off yet again. From the panicked crowd to the SPs handling the situation.

He uses his favourite shading effects. To give a brooding deeply shadowed look to Zendak on page 14 and the slightly zip-a-tone silhouette of Brainy on page 16.

Those vertical establishing shots continue on 7, 8 where it also forms part of the bottom horizontal panel!, 11 and 17. They work well with similar panels on 13 and 18 that depict movement and action. Giffen gets in a directly overhead shot, as seen in previous stories brining the Legion down into plaza, with Brainy and Kal at their video game.

There’s new things too, such as the near Dutch angled Legion HQ on page 8 and the white used to represent the technological sanctum of SPHQ’s central computer on page 9 (shame that wasn’t continued into page 10 smile)

It’s not perfect. Levitz points out Gim nearly crushing people on page 3 and someone has had to draw an arrow to direct the reader on page 13.

The idea that Giffen’s style changed completely during the Omen/Prophet story doesn’t actually pan out. This is an excellent issue, even by the standards of his earlier Legion work.

Dirk’s expression and actions on the first panel on page three are up there with my favourites for his character.

Vi’s look of determination, as she completes her recovery, on page 8, is another character favourite.


"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
Re: Re-reading the Legion: Archives Volume 19
Fat Cramer #944595 02/17/18 05:21 PM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 31,440
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Comment Comments

Originally Posted by Cramer
This straightforward story about terrorist activities (bomb 1, bomb 2, meet the villain(s), blackmail threat cliffhanger) serves as a platform for a lot of character moments and information about 30th century Earth. It’s the character interaction and Enclyclopedia entries that I found the most interesting.


I did find the threat to get a bit repetitive in this issue. But the characters/ subplots and Giffen visuals/ influence made quite a difference.


Originally Posted by Cramer
Jan and Gim going are undercover is unnecessary to the plot. They don’t do any undercover investigation. The only justification is to give Jan a reason to not use his power to quell the fire, thereby opening the door for a Superboy ex machina resolution.


I was cautiously going to wait until next issue to see if they did anything there, before mentioning their use. smile

On the plus side, it got Jan to the stadium forwarding his Erin relationship subplot. There, he could use his Legion leader position without him having to be brought cold into the plot. Gim is there to introduce that GiGi subplot, progress the Yera relationship and he has to be there at the Marte Allon assassination threat cliff hanger. Oh, and both are there so that Erin and GiGi can explain how the SP works to the reader. If only either of them had found a clue. smile


Originally Posted by Cramer
It’s rare to see any reference to the period between the 20th and 30th centuries, so I enjoyed the 23rd century detective novels (on paper no less). I wish we could have seen some titles. Gym’ll collects ancient comics – how much of Earth’s paper artifacts remain?


David Mamet’s Wilson revolves around a collective loss of technology in the future. The past has to be cobbled together and it’s a very different past to our present. It makes me think that GiGi’s book bear no resemblance whatsoever to crime fiction of our times. This is all spoiled by Rokk bringing back a library in Time Bubble trips. They’re all library books that he pinches underneath that trenchcoat we see him wearing so much in v4. smile

Originally Posted by Cramer
Dirk puts his moves on Gigi and flies her to the stadium, but drops out of the story after that, which struck me as odd - just as he dropped out of the Prophet story on Khundia. I would fear he’s being typecast as the team Romeo, and not much else.


Yeah, Dirk is big enough to star on the cover but not enough to take a role beyond a subplot. Was he not on the “We want you to join the Legion” later on? Having said that, I really liked his depiction here in what we got. Like Drake, he’s flawed and that makes him interesting. It’s a shame that it all got a bit shallow for him.

In a technology based issue, it could have been noted that he’s the Legion’s best scientist on site. That sure came as a shock when Brainy left, and inclusion in stories like this would have made a real difference.


Originally Posted by Cramer
The villain is ordinary-looking to the point of comical and talks like a super-villain; his computer companion/servant is mysterious. Shades of Brainy and Computo! Although the title refers to a bad cop, it's not clear if this is the bad cop or "Mr. Big" - and the bad cop has yet to be revealed.


Perhaps he’s really Pulsar Stargrave and they’re going to replace Brainy/Computo on the team! A Legion of Super Rejects Reprise! smile It was the humour in the robot showing how deranged the villain was that made that scene work for me. Later, we’d get a variation of it with Manga Khan and L-Ron over in JLA. smile





Originally Posted by Cramer
Lots of future story set-up: the sparks around Danielle Foccart, Blok’s injuries, the Daxam repair team, Gigi’s old acquaintance with Gim, Violet ready to settle scores, Supergirl kept in the picture as romantic partner for Brainy, Garth and Imra on extended leave, possible problems with the Mission Monitor Board (Computo related perhaps?).


nod not half bad, getting all that in.

Originally Posted by Cramer
No comments from the Legionnaires on the shiny new HQ, apart from Brainy’s own self-congratulations and big plans (fly it into space! maybe that was maniacal laughter in the last issue), nor on the return of Lyle Norg. There’s only so much you can fit in an issue.


But the Lyle one was a big miss. We’ve mentioned all the other things going on, but I do wonder if anyone even thought about just getting the Lyle returns panel redrawn. Perhaps it was a challenge that Levitz thought would work out, like the post Crisis Superboy.


Originally Posted by HWW
This glimpse of earth as a technological paradise seemed much more innocent in 1984; with the prevalence of technology these days, the reduction of the number of human beings responding to emergencies and arresting criminals might make the world a colder, impersonal, and harsher place. Chilling visions from the movie Minority Report—in which individuals are arrested and sentenced before they commit crimes—come to mind. However, these possibilities are only hinted at in the story…The villain reminds me of the fireballers back in 297-298; there seems to be a rash of these types of crimes on earth, just as there are all-too-frequent mass shootings in the modern world. If Levitz had developed this theme further, he could have explored the reasons why there are such similar crimes, and perhaps connect them to the political unrest on Imsk. The 30th century is not the perfect society, after all, but we get only hints of this.


I think Levitz was very aware of the sociological implications of the technology he was showcasing in these stories. He would have seen them in the Adventure tales, and at least someone was reading 2000AD (if only as the British creator-invasion was coming). I just think he made a decision that this wasn’t a direction he was going to take the book in. I think I may even have read a quote from him, pretty much expressing this.

Originally Posted by HWW
While the story’s premise has a lot to offer, these ideas are muted or introduced and discarded because of the necessity of inserting the Legionnaires into the story. I feel this should be an SP-only tale, as the heroes only get in the way. I’m willing to hold out to see what undercover Jan and Gim do next issue, but, right now, they don’t accomplish much…The Legionnaires seem comically out of place in what should be a straight police procedural.


I don’t think I’ve read too many good detective stories from the big two. I think that introducing the spandex brigade let’s them off the hook. Besides, I don’t think having a Legion book without Legionnaires in it would have gone down terribly well, considering the queue for spotlights there must have been. smile

Considering the Hill Street Blues analogy to the legion, I wonder if Levitz ever fancied doing a SP mini.

Originally Posted by HWW
The White Witch, in a cliched twist, comes only so close to revealing the bomber’s face. (Gotta prolong the drama.) Jan looks stupid when he questions how Zendak knew the bombing at the stadium would happen, and Dirk reminds us that the Legionnaires don’t give a fig about property damage because their “budget” will cover it.


nod

Originally Posted by HWW
Once again, the subplots prove to be more interesting and focused than the main story. Superboy beats Brainiac 5 in a game by distracting him (unintentionally?)


>gasp!< The Boy of Steel would never cheat! I feel bad even using the word in the same sentence! smile

The art varies in quality. Many pages and panels are well designed and move the story along, especially the opening scene with Dirk and Gigi. In fact, just about any scene that features Gigi stands out. The focus on her shows how much effort Levitz and Giffen spent in developing her character and look. I almost feel this should be her story, but she doesn’t contribute much to the action.

Originally Posted by HWW
When Vi appears, it’s not clear that she’s getting dressed at tiny size. When she returns to normal size, it looks like Dr. Gym’ll is trying to stomp on her when he’s probably jumping out of her way.


Is she small sized? There’s that little effect under Gym’ll’s feet. But there’s also that swishing motion coming in from the right. I thought she had just jumped out of the tube thing right in front of him, causing him to get out of her way. But that little effect is a bit of signature…I’ll put it in the confusing pile. If she is small sized for her treatment, it would indicate that Imskians heal better naturally at a small size. It means that Salu’s power is really super growing and that fits in with the Adventure story where she had such an ability.

Originally Posted by HWW
As for the title, “Good Cop, Bad Cop?”—I assume the bad cop is the bomber/saboteur, but why the question mark?

Possibly the question mark is to indicate that the SPs had to figure out it was definitely one of their own that did it?

Originally Posted by HWW
This story has a lot of potential, but it lacks the focus and depth of earlier Levitz/Giffen offerings. It seems like Levitz was trying to stretch himself and the Legion’s world by focusing on the SP, but then he couldn’t decide how the Legionnaires should factor into the story. The cliffhanger—where Colossal Boy’s mom is revealed to be the next target—builds nicely off what has been established before. However, it highlights the fact that Gim hasn’t had much else to contribute to the story


I wasn’t sure if it was post Omen/Prophet fatigue, but I also felt that the story, for all it’s good points, didn’t grab me.


"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
Re: Re-reading the Legion: Archives Volume 19
Fat Cramer #944614 02/17/18 08:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Fat Cramer


Just noticed the year, 1984. Appropriate – but as you point out, a much more innocent portrayal of police surveillance technology. I hadn’t thought about it until you mentioned it, but the low number of human cops would have a lot of ramifications. Certainly colder and more impersonal, but with so few police officers, they must all be well known, possibly celebrities in their own right.


Good catch on the year. smile

Quote

I read somewhere that Gigi was based on Paul’s wife, but don’t know if that’s true or to what degree the comparison might hold – appearance, personality? She doesn’t do much action-wise, but I had the impression (in this and earlier issues) that she’s a rising star.


I remember that, too. Am I correct in remembering that Cusimano was Mrs. Levtiz's maiden name?

EDIT: Yes, according to this site, his wife's name is Jeanette Cusimano.

Also, here's a page from the Legion Wiki, which lists the "Tuckerization" of various names of Legion characters.

Quote


Yera didn’t know turkeys can’t fly. Must have done another change right after that. I also thought that Gym’ll was stomping his feet (not necessarily on her), he’s so given to bad moods when Legionnaires are around.



She should have perused Gim's collection of 20th century vidcoms--assuming they survived Brainy's redesign of the HQ. smile

Originally Posted by thoth


At first I thought GiGi window looked out across to an old Legion HQ.


I thought it was a window, too! It completely escaped my mind that we would be seeing the new HQ. smile

Quote
For all of Giffen’s experimentation in Omen/Prophet the overall art is excellent here. He has updated everyone’s fashion.


Good catch here and elsewhere in noticing the various artistic touches. The small reaction panels go right past me in terms of being noticed, but they add so much to the story.

Quote
I note that McDonalds has survived into the 30th century.


nod Clearly, there was an underground Big Mac movement which overthrew the Taco Bell monopoly sometime during the intervening 800 years.

Quote
The other recruit is Jan-I -Am-Curious-Black-Arrah. Don’t worry stockists! We don’t actually have a black character in here! This guy’s really white! Fear Not! All the other black people are still on Marzal except for Token Lad Jacques and his immediate family/friends! Just Ugh! It’s even in an issue featuring Officer Dvron, who was supposed to be black until it had to be changed. Double Ugh! While it’s probably Levitz trying to sneak a black character into the story, that he had to do it at all, and the way it was done says volumes about DC.


Interesting. I didn't see Jan's disguise as anything other than a creative attempt at going undercover, but you raise a good point that it reflects DC's marginalization of black characters.

Quote
I don’t think I’ve read too many good detective stories from the big two. I think that introducing the spandex brigade let’s them off the hook. Besides, I don’t think having a Legion book without Legionnaires in it would have gone down terribly well, considering the queue for spotlights there must have been. smile


Publishing this as a SP-only story would have certainly been impractical, but it still reads to me more like an SP tale than a Legion tale. A revision or two--had time allowed--might have better integrated the Legion into the story and also addressed the "stretching out" of the plot.

An SP mini would also have been cool.

There were quite a few decent Batman-as-detective stories, as I recall. Perhaps Levitz should have invited Mke W. Barr or whoever was writing Batman or Detective at the time to assist. There's even a cameo of a nutcase dressed as Batman. smile

Quote
Is she small sized? There’s that little effect under Gym’ll’s feet. But there’s also that swishing motion coming in from the right. I thought she had just jumped out of the tube thing right in front of him, causing him to get out of her way.


Could be. Now that you mention it, the previous panel--showing her wrist on her hip--suggests she is at normal size. So maybe she shrunk down and then immediately grew back up to annoy the good doctor. Confusing.

It did occur to me that Gym'll might have been trying extreme measures to keep her from discharging herself. smile



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Re: Re-reading the Legion: Archives Volume 19
Fat Cramer #944637 02/19/18 04:35 AM
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Thanks for the Tuckerization link, HWW.

Originally Posted by thoth
At first I thought GiGi window looked out across to an old Legion HQ. Which would say a lot about her roommates' stalker tendencies. But it might actually be a desk ornament.


Missed that - and it does look like the old HQ. Which is still a little stalkerish.

Quote
There are clear links with the Dirk shown here and the personality he had at the start of v4. He As he flies off, Dirk is happy and ready for his Legionnaire duties. It's a shame all those broken windows would catch up with the Legion and him later on.

This could have been the start of a slightly different Clark/Lois relationship and it's a nice scene.


Too bad it didn't go anywhere much. They could have kept Dirk as an egotistical ladies man and still maintain a relationship with Gigi. She's fiery enough to handle him.


Quote
It's unkind to think that Jan caused this just to get out of a double date in which he would be out of his depth. He covers the area of explosion in inertron. In comics, there are no wounded near explosions, allowing heroes to cut off oxygen supplies without fear of killing anyone. Yera follows Gim's advice and goes small and flighty for safety. It would have been an opportunity to see the beginnings of Chameleon Girl, but she's strictly supporting cast. Erin must also have thought a date with Jan would go wrong. She's brought along her uniform and the new helmet we saw on the cover.


None of this telling your girlfriend to call you part way through your date for a graceful exit - just hope for a crisis. It is curious that Yera didn't pitch in to help. She'd certainly had enough experience while posing as Violet - but maybe she's cooling it for a while, or even under court order to not play Legionniare.


Quote
The new Legion HQ shows up as we see Brainy debug the spiffy MMB. Blok, seeing that his function of explaining things is under threat from Giffen's very influential visuals, tells use where everyone is anyway.


Hah! Didn't get the memo - Attn: Blok - Giffen's got it covered, you can be quiet.

Quote
Jan doesn't come across well as leader. Zendak had to tell him he was in the Omen story. So far this issue, Erin has to explain to a stuttering Jan what Zendak meant when he said they knew about the blast and his 'oh' as the implications set in doesn't inspire a lot of confidence.


Hadn't thought about it, but you're right. He really doesn't compare well to Nura at this point.

Quote
Following months of having been physically and mentally abused in a sens-tank, seeing a stripped Vi never strikes me as appropriate. Like the Drake hand on Dawny's shoulder, last issue, there's comic book shorthand going on. Here, Vi is putting on a new identity as well as a new uniform. She leaves to settle some scores. Vi had been shown as focused and determined back in the Adventure days, and this personality goes back to that. Her leaving in a ship to a new chapter in her life was also replicated at the start of the TMK run.


Nice - new uniform, new life. It does resemble her old uniform a bit, though - the green dress. You point out a lot of interesting links to TMK.

Quote
The other recruit is Jan-I -Am-Curious-Black-Arrah. Don't worry stockists! We don't actually have a black character in here! This guy's really white! Fear Not! All the other black people are still on Marzal except for Token Lad Jacques and his immediate family/friends! Just Ugh! It's even in an issue featuring Officer Dvron, who was supposed to be black until it had to be changed. Double Ugh! While it's probably Levitz trying to sneak a black character into the story, that he had to do it at all, and the way it was done says volumes about DC.


Jacques has left the room, with Danielle - so it's back to only one black character at a time.

Quote
HQ is alerted to another blast, this time on Restaurant Row. I note that McDonalds has survived into the 30th century. I guess Levitz/Giffen didn't read the Burger Wars issues of 2000AD. The rebreathers used by the Science Police are remarkably similar to the ones used by criminals on Judge Dredd's Titan though.


Good spot of the not-so-golden arches. Maybe Woody Allen was right about fries being good for us. Otherwise, things are starting to look more futuristic and the extras are looking stranger. Compare this to the current Guardians of the Galaxy comic - there's a vast difference in background and setting detail.

Quote
But there are missed opportunities. Rokk having to deal with multiple blasts in Metropolis after what happened to his family; Jacques leaving without a mention of Lyle; having SPs of other ethnic groups; Yera pre-Chameleon Girl.


Lost tales, or would have been very nice to haves.


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Re: Re-reading the Legion: Archives Volume 19
Fat Cramer #944655 02/19/18 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Cramer
Thanks for the Tuckerization link, HWW.


Seconded. Thanks HWW. I don’t think Cusimano’s presence in Levitz’s last v7 issue is a coincidence.

Originally Posted by Cramer
Missed that - and it does look like the old HQ. Which is still a little stalkerish.


It’s that the varnish on the ornament is rubbed away around where Jan’s quarters would be that’s unsettling. smile

Originally Posted by Cramer
They could have kept Dirk as an egotistical ladies man and still maintain a relationship with Gigi. She's fiery enough to handle him.


He’s a hot shot hero, a scientist and a celebrity, so having him with some flaws is a decent balance. At least he’s getting a little sublot of his own, after a few shoe horned in issues.

Originally Posted by Cramer
It is curious that Yera didn't pitch in to help. She'd certainly had enough experience while posing as Violet - but maybe she's cooling it for a while, or even under court order to not play Legionniare.


Good point. I don’t think the timing would be quite right to bring her in as an applicant. Had Cham’s powers not returned properly, then this could have been a very interesting avenue to explore. Of course, Cham was the one who said the not all Durlans were alike. So perhaps Yera can do things Cham can’t. Other than being complicit in keeping team mates in sens-tanks, I mean. smile

Originally Posted by Cramer
Hah! Didn't get the memo - Attn: Blok - Giffen's got it covered, you can be quiet.


Blok can be found chiselling away at himself, in the hope that his injuries will lead to a subplot where he can establish himself. smile


"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
Re: Re-reading the Legion: Archives Volume 19
Fat Cramer #944657 02/19/18 09:18 PM
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I love the idea of Yera being court-ordered not to impersonate Legionnaires. smile Since she is an actress and not a hero, it makes some sense that she would hang back. Although she acquitted herself well in her "role" as Violet, this is now the real her facing the crowd. She simply doesn't have the motivation to "play hero" on her own. smile

Dirk and Gigi's relationship seems quite interesting. He's egotistical and reckless, and she seems quite attracted to those qualities.


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Re: Re-reading the Legion: Archives Volume 19
Fat Cramer #944666 02/20/18 04:40 AM
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#313 Death Threat by Paul Levitz & Keith Giffen, art by Giffen & Mahlstedt, Colours by Gafford, Letters by Costanza

[Linked Image]

Legionnaires and SP Officers congregate in Marte Allon's home to inform her of the blackmail/death threat and arrange protection. She asks Zendak why Legionnaires are protecting her rather than Legionnaires; as Brainy begins to answer, Zendak breakds in to admit his concern about a rogue SP Officer. As Brainy vows to "take care of everything", Blok breaks an ornament.

At the Spaceport, SPs along with undercover Jan and Gim close in on smugglers whose ship indicated radioactives. The criminals fly off with jet packs as Jan and GIm fume that they don't have their flight rings. Suddenly, the smugglers shrink and fall into the hand of Mysa, as a result of a spell she prepared to shrink a cargo ship. As the criminals are led away, Dirk gets annoyed with the attention Gigi is showing Gim. She says they are only old friends.

Jan and Shvaughn confer; Jan wonders if the blackmail threat to Miz Allon was false and considers asking Imra back from leave to help find the traitor cop.

On Ventura, Thom and Nura vacation amid admirers. As Nura signs autographs, she collapses with a vision that a Legionnaire would die.

At SP Headquarters, Gigi addresses a squad of seven, including undercover Gim and Jan - who spend their time gaping at the equipment. She runs through the day's anticipated activities and problems, mentions the upcoming trial of Ontiir. Later, Gim questions Shvaughn about the small number of police; she replies that, due to drones and computers, only a dozen police are needed in Metropolis. The Legionnaires wonder how anyone could infiltrate the SPs, given the high level of security, including weekly security checks of the officers themselves.

On Lallor, Duplicate Boy basks in public attention, then suddenly receives a sock in the jaw from Violet. She is enraged that he didn't find her replacement suspicious and shoves a small box in his mouth, then flies off.

On Earth, Marte Allon prepares to address the U.P. Council, surrounded by Legionnaires and Chief Zendak. The anti-grav lift fails while she's in it, but Brainy's forcefield and Rokk's magnetic powers save her. Zendak mulls over who could be the traitor and starts considering off-world SPs who might be in the city. The others check it out but find nothing in the computers. Jan admits that he's feeling paranoid since discovering Yera's deception; Mysa wonders if she asked the computer to wrong question, about who tampered with it.

On Daxam, Lar and Tasmia admire the progress of the restoration. Lar feels guilty that Darkseid discovered Daxam through him. Cham wishes that Durla would allow help to improve that planet.

As Marte Allon speaks, Brainy thinks he sees a spark from a drone and asks Kal to check it out. The drone explodes as Brainy encases her in a forcefield. All the other drones go wild, attacking delegates, but the Legionnaires disable them all. They learn that blackmail threats had been made against all the councillors and that some had paid but none reported it.

Superboy crashes through the SP HQ with news that they have an idea about the blackmailer. An angry Gigi lambasts him for not using a door and informs the Legionnaires that the blackmailer is a civilian programmer. Brainy manipulates the computer and finds the suspect at the Spaceport.

Jan has come up with the right question to ask the computer, which was to locate the one person that the computer would not trace. It turned out to be a civilian programmer. Legionnaires, Gigi and Shvaughn apprehend him as he prepares to leave on a flight for Dominion territory. Mysa tells him that she cast a spell of similarity between the computer and the man who hacked it. Gim, giant-sized, says he's going to arrest the man and didn't like how he scared Gim's mom.

Comments:
Much is made of the power of computers and drones to maintain security and prevent problems, but the idea of invasive surveillance isn't raised. In 1984, it all looked benign and beneficial. I don't believe we ever see those security drones again, nor will there be much reference to the SP computer equipment. This issue is something of a showcase of SP technology and operations, which I did enjoy.

Jan and Gim continue to pose as undercover cops, but they just hang around with Gigi and Shvaughn. It's pointless, except to once again keep them from using their flight rings or powers. It seemed unlikely that they'd be so impressed by the SP technology, with all the whiz-bang toys the Legion has.

I liked the use of Mysa's spells alongside the team's logical deductions, but it wasn't clear to me whether it was Mysa or Brainy using the computer which finalized the identity and the location of the blackmailer. It was Jan who came up with the critical question to ask the computer - but it could have been Mysa; she doesn't need to be confined to spell-casting only, although that's how she's used. At least Jan got to show some leadership.

It also wasn't clear to me whether that was a real line to board a flight to the Dominion or some sort of fake. Once the villain stepped through the portal, he was apprehended - but he had stated that once on the flight, he would be in sovereign Dominion territory. So were all the other passengers cooperating with the SPs to create a deception? It's not a story-breaker, but I didn't follow that part.

I didn't really have a sense of tension throughout this story - not just because I figure the Legion will win in the end. The scenes from other storylines broke up the story, which I usually welcome, but this seemed to distract from the chase in this instance. There are a few red herrings thrown into the mix, but they're quickly resolved - the off-world SPs, Jan's paranoid suspicion. (I might even have thought Computo was a candidate, given the spark Brainy saw on the drone and the spark he saw as Danielle left.) It's a good mystery story, but it breaks down at the end: with such sophisticated computer power, once they had the identity of the blackmailer, the SP computers should have been able to track his movements, purchase of a ticket, registration for the flight, etc. without the intervention of Brainiac 5. However, I may be making the leap based on today's networking and surveillance technology, not that of when the story was written.

Marte Allon is cool and collected, impressing the Legionnaires and the reader. Her speech to the council appears to plead for expansion of Earth's economic interests. I'm curious to see if this plays out somehow in future issues.

The other councillors are all non-humanoid, some very strange alien forms. We never learn what planets they represent and don't see these particular races again and none of them are represented in the Legion. It's fun for the artist, but future issues will ensure that recognizable members of the U.P. - Coluans, Winathians, Durlans, etc. - are present.


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