OK, do not read any further if you don't want spoilers, but even with spoilers I shall try not to be too specific so that people can still post to the thread even if they've not seen the new show...
Spoiler spaaace
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and so on and so forth

OK, so the only thing that really made me cross was the fact that in the opening titles the Doctor's face didn't come up. Oooh, that's very wrong.

Reworked music, but not drastically. More violins but the basic theme is still much as it was.

Penis-Nose makes a fine Doctor. Not too sure about his outfit, it's jarringly different from all the other Doctors, but personality-wise he's great. Very much the eager kid while being very intelligent, even wise, at the same time.

Rose (Billie Piper) is great. A bit of the squeely girl assistant but with a large part of her being the kick arse girl a la Ace. She knows how to fight and is clever in her own right as well. Some interesting sexual/romantic tension between her and the Doctor but nothing major.

Effects are good, but still a bit cheap which is *good*.

Knowing Cardiff quite well it was funny seeing how much they've used it as 'London'. Sitting there going 'that's not London' a lot was slightly distracting, but not majorly and only because I know Cardiff well.

idn't like the redesign of the inside of the Tardis much, but it's not a major thing. The outside still looks the same and it makes the same noise. Yay!

Wheelie bins! Hah! Fantastic, perfect Doctor Who moment.

Script was very good, very tight, and all very well acted. The general look is just right. They've fiddled with the formula, changed some things but left the basics as they were. They've only changed as much as they ever did with a new Doctor without messing around with the basic concept (which was the problem with the crappy made for TV movie from the mid nineties).

All in all, it's looking good and I'm eager for next week.

Reposting what I said on the Other thread (with a couple of additions):

• Eccleston's Doctor is batty, brilliant, absent-minded, egocentric and has a habit of saying impossibly long sentences in one breath Plus there's a hint of desperation at the end in his convincing Rose to join. Definately a keeper
• The episode only focuses obliquely on the Doctor for the most part though - kind of Dr Who-by-New Marvel. Rose is the central character here and she's.. adequate. Identikit post-Buffy heroine, with the note that she dropped out of school. Again, Billie plays her adequately, but not stand-outishly.
• Sequing in from the Nu-Marvel bit, Bryan Hitch's Tardis interior design is... eugh. Take Moya from Farscape's interior, miss the point completely, put it in the Tardis and light it mostly in greenish-brown. Plus, if there's more than one mostly-empty room in there, the camera angle hid it well. (Additional - there isn't: http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/making/360/ There are no doors in there whatsoever, bar the external one)
• Smells something like a reboot - they insert a Doctor fanatic as part of the reintroduction. Funnily enough, all the pictures he hunts down are of Eccleston's Doctor. Funny that, eh?
• If it hadn't been for a "created by" note in the credits, I would never have realised the Autons were pre-existing characters (nor, indeed, that they had a name...)

Oh, and I never noticed the Cardiff bit

OK for a start let me go on record as saying I liked this........a lot. It had almost everything good from previous series but gave it a modern riff and, if they are aiming at a attracting a new audience as well as keeping the old fan boys happy, from what I have seen they are pretty successful.

Viewing figures gave the episode around 9.9 million which means they beat Ant and Decs Saturday night crap fest. So that’s good.

Picking up on some of Boot’s and Bevis comments.

As a much older and sadder person than you two (ps this is where you jump in to salve my troubled brow and assure me I am not old ) I can just about remember the original opening sequence and I am pretty sure Hartnell’s face did not appear. So maybe they have gone back to this?

Music is fine in fact I hardly noticed any difference from the classic theme. Which is good because the music, along with the Tardis is such a core of Doctor Who that to change it would make the resulting programme into something completely different.

Eccleston gives a wild exciting, slightly mad performance. There are hints of the other doctors in there. There is a sense of a huge history to this Doctor, this is a man who has been around for a long time and seen and done a lot of things other than help Earth out. (Loved the description he uses for humans by the way which just about sums up our position in the Galaxy)

Rose may become a bit more interesting as the show progresses. Certainly the two share an on screen chemistry that good to see. I hope she is allowed to be something more than a scream machine. A way to get the doctor to explain things is always at the core of what a good assistant should be. I agree with Reboot the hint of desperation at the end when the Doctor is trying to get Rose to go with him was wonderful.

The new inside of the Tardis is horrible although the central console may have potential. Not sure about the apparent lack of doors though, given the slightly organic look to it maybe they appear and disappear on request? Externally it looks the same and makes the same noise. I also like that fact that it takes time to dematerialise, it’s not fast at all. I feel they may use this later on to give a sense of danger.

And like Reboot I had a feeling this new series was going to be a total reboot with this incarnation being the first doctor. After all it’s established that he can only regenerate for a finite number and making him Doctor one again would get around this. This would account for all the fanatics’ pictures being Eccleston. However the ears comment seems to indicate that he has had at least one regeneration.

By the bye is that fanatic dead or alive after the Auton attack?

Oh, best line by far was 'a lot of planets have a North'. He he he.

I didn't think they'd dumped all the previous Doctors. The fanatic only having pics of Eccleston makes sense if he's the Doctor he's encountered before and so is just looking for him. If he doesn't know about the others, and for some reason hasn't picked up on them elsewhere, then he wouldn't have any reason to suspect there was more than one Doctor, if you see what i mean.

It was interesting that they didn't actually mention a regeneration but iirc there can only be thirteen Doctors in total and we're on... ooh, I forget. Hatrnell, the guy after him who I always forget, Pertwee, Baker, Davidson, Baker, McCoy, possibly McGann and I'm sure there are a couple of others (oooh, bad me forgetting Doctors). That's at least seven previous ones, maybe eight and I think it's more like ten. Anyway, point being Eccleston doesn't actually have to be the next Doctor after McCoy (or McGann, depending) since the stories don't work chronologically in our time. All we know is that he can't be a Doctor between Hartnell and McCoy (or McGann) since we've seen all the others become their sucessor.

One thing that did bug me though, and may be explained away, but isn't the navigation on the Tardis supposed to be knackered? I thought it was the same reason that it couldn't change it's external appearance. The Doctor couldn't pick exactly where in space and time he ended up because the navigation was broken. An I just imagining that or is it part of the Who story?

Oh, and Darden you're not that old. Surely not old enough to actually remember Hartnell are you? Isn't that, like, fifty years ago now or something? I remeber both the Bakers, Davidson, Pertwee (vaguely, but that might be from repeats) and McCoy (and try to forget McGann).

I believe that the faces started with Pertwee & colour.

That only makes sense if he's just regenerated however.

My initial reading of that scene was that the Doctor in the shop blow-up was meant to be McGann, and he was meant to die and regenerate in the Big Boom (how DID he get out of that anyway? There wasn't time to get out, and the Tardis wasn't in place for a quick getaway, since we saw Rose run by it). But then orders came down from Higher Up that Ecceleston was to be the only Doctor in the show, and they rewrote a couple of scenes, but left (forgot to change?) the ears & cards bit. Because, as it stands, that little sequence doesn't quite add up.

Still, the PR (official site included) has been saying "Ninth Doctor", so, age frell-up aside (Seventh was 950, Eccelston's claiming 900. Maybe he's being modest ), who knows. They've reset the series numbering back to Series One, Episode One with Rose tho.

Well, if he survived, his wife & kids were kind of callous leaving him like that...

If I'm not mistaken, it sounds like Dr. Who is off to a good start!

Can't wait for the debut episode. In Canada, we get it on April 5th on CBC. I'm not worried about spoilers so by all means please continue to spoil away!

Bevis, I'll help you out with a couple of your queries re: The Doctor...William Hartnell (1st), Patrick Troughton (2nd), Jon Pertwee (3rd), Tom Baker (4th), Peter Davison (5th), Colin Baker (6th), Sylvester McCoy (7th), Paul McGann (8th) and then there's Peter Cushing who was the Doctor in the 2 movies in the 60s (Dr. Who & The Daleks & Dalek Invasion Earth 2150 AD)

You are right about the Tardis navigation being knackered. The Chameleon Circuit used to work (presumably when The 1st Doctor travelled alone with Susan) and briefly worked during Attack Of The Cybermen. In Logopolis, the Master sabotaged the Doctor's attempts to finally fix the Chameleon Circuit.

Hey Darden, long time no chat! My buddies and I from my Doctor Who club are really excited about the new show!

Guess what? My video collection of Doctor Who is complete! Now I'm going to gradually get the DVDs and of course the new episodes when they come out.

Out of curiosity Bevis, why do you call Christopher Eccelston "penis nose"?

Patrick Troughton! I always forget his name, although I can picture him perfectly in my head. Funny how in each incarnation the Doctor seems to be getting ever so slightly younger each time (with Davidson and Colin Baker being about the same age and McCoy being a bit of a blip).

As for Eccleston being Penis-Nose... well, find a photo of him taken from face on and look at his nose. It's a penis I tells ya! I have to blame my elder brother for that though, since when we were watching Shallow Grave she pointed it out to me and I can't help but notice it every time I see him now. He as a knob for a nose. He he he. He's still quite good looking though.

IIRC, in the first episode, the reason give why they couldn't take Ian & Barbara right back was because they had left in a hurry and the Doctor hadn't plotted a course, so he didn't know the coordinates they were now starting from to plot a return course. Not because of a faulty navigation circuit.

Definitely in later episodes, the Doctor is shown able to plot exact courses. Although I would say there are probably stories which had the navigation be knackered as Bevis says.

I haven't sat down and watched my copy yet (but I did bring it to work in case I get time) but does the new Doctor really look like this ?

Bevis is right. He does have a penis nose.

Not as bad as the Fake one David Spade had, but well go here Doctor Who and you will see

I was told that he couldn't actually, reliably, steer the Tardis until after the Third Doctor's exile ended in The Three Doctors

Where'd you get the idea Davidson & Colin B were the same age? It's CBaker and McCoy that are the same age! (indeed, McCoy's a couple of months younger)

One look @ IMDB later, here's the (approximate) ages they were when they took on the role:

Hartnell: 55 (Doctor 1963-1966, born 8 January 1908, died 23 April 1975)
Troughton: 46 (Doctor 1966-1969, born 25 March 1920, died 28 March 1987)
Pertwee: 50-51 (Doctor 1970-1974, born 7 July 1919, died 20 May 1996)
Tom Baker: 40 (Doctor 1974-1981, born 20 January 1934)
Davison: 29 (Doctor 1981-1984, born 13 April 1951)
Colin Baker: ~41 (Doctor 1984-1986, born 8 June 1943)
McCoy: ~44 (Doctor 1987-1989, born 20 August 1943)
McGann: 37 (Doctor 1996, born November 14, 1959)
Eccleston: 40 (Doctor 2005-, born 16 February 1964)

Yep, just like a penis with a couple of balls nestling behind it.

Course, the thing is now I've pointed it out none of you will be able to watch anything with Christopher Eccleston in it without at least once thinking 'gosh, his nose looks just like a penis'.

I think it depends on the writer and/or story whether the TARDIS could be steered reliably or not and what was the cause of that problem. I also think you are right that the pre-Pertwee Doctors had less control over destination. Altohough my understanding of one Hartnell story was that the Doctor at the end of the Hugonauts (sp?) story steers the TARIDS to mordern day London to show Stephen that a character did survive to have a descendant and that's how Dodo became a companion.

Again, I think it depends upon the writer whether the TARDIS was at fault or not. I think in a Tom Baker episode it was hinted that the TARDIS was semi-sentient and may have been making the random landings itself.

I am so excited about this new series. It looks like its going to be great.

*Is there anyone out there that can hook me up with copies of the show??? Either DVD or tape?? I'm in America with still no hope of seeing the show. Can someone please help me out??

Bevis at 45 I am old enough to remember (just) the last Hartnell stories, but Troughton was really my first doctor. Ah happy memories of me and a friend hiding from those little black and white daleks.

RAY
I think you are going to like this one. Its a good re imagining of the whole Who mythos, to borrow a phrase from a certain Legion comic

Now as for the Tardis being controllable or not I seem to remember that at some point it was explained that the Tardis itself could somehow sense trouble that needed the doctors intervention and over riding its pre set course who often divert and materialise in un expected places.

Incidentally, the BBC3 documentary from Saturday is on the web: http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/confidential/

And, after the ages thing from earlier on, when you see him on this, Colin Baker has aged really badly. Still think he's the same age as Peter Davidson Bev?

well Faraway Lad as a "Yank" and i'm pretty sure a lot of American Dr.Who fans will say their first exposue to Dr.Who was Tom Baker. i can remember back in the late 70's the local PBS station would air his doctor and i watched them religiously.

I'll second this.

In fact, the PBS station where I grew up never aired anything earlier than the Baker stuff. It wasn't until I moved to where I am now that I saw any of those.

My first Doctor was Peter Davison (not Davidson...)

The first Doctor to have his face in the titles was the Second Doctor (Patrick Troughton).

Haven't seen "Rose" yet, but my contact in the UK mailed my copy off yesterday, so...

This just broke on the Sci-Fi Wire.

[Jeremy Paxman voice] Annnd heee's gone [/Paxman]

I would say it was some sort of record, but McGann only lasted one "episode", so I can't quite. Then again, McGann didn't quit, they just didn't do a followup.

You know, David Tennant, the talked about replacement, has done Dr. Who before. He just hasn't played the Doctor. He was the voice of the Caretaker in the animated Dr. Who that the BBC webcasted a couple of years ago.

[edit] Actually the BBC's website still has this version availablt to watch at their site, in Flash. You can find it here .

Gotta say I'm not surprised. I was surprised though that they got Eccleston in the first place. I do think the idea that he is quitting because he did not want to get type cast is a bit stupid because he is going to "the Doctor" to a lot of people for ever now, whether he does one series or seven.

It seems pretty unsporting to take the role just to bail out on it. I don't know the guy from Adam honestly but why take such an iconic role if you aren't willing to commit to a reasonably lenghty run?

wow does this mean that the Doctor will go through another regeneration?
also do they show the current Doctor go through his regeneration from the last Doctor to this one or is it explained in passing?

There is no mention of regeneration in "Rose", however there is a scene that suggests he has regenerated somewhat recently. (He passes by a mirror and, as if seeing his new body for the first time, examines his face there, making a comment about his ears.)

I'll be very interested to see if Eccleston will come back long enough to film a regeneration scene. If he does, it'll most likely be in the Christmas Special. (He's not "confirmed" as appearing in that yet, it's just a rumor so far...)

don't know how true this rumor is but i just heard that the producers of the show are looking for a replacement and tranvestite comedian Eddie Izzard's name was mentioned as a hopeful.

I believe that someone is removing the urine from you, so to speak.

By far the most likely candidate is David Tennant - (1) they've confirmed they're negotiating with him about the role, and (2) he's another one of Russell Davies' "favourites" and (3) he's on record as being a fan of the show.

There's a couple of other potentials mentioned here - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/tv_and_radio/4396295.stm , but agreeing terms (not an insubstantial condition, that said) seems to be the only obstacle in his path.

Eddie was mentioned the first time round for the new Doctor. He said that it was all a joke at that time. I wouldn't believe any different this time.

Same here. Though I think he should film a guest spot pronto. Or be the new Master, what the heck.

Pity about the change. I was just starting work on my crackpot "which-Doctor-is-Eccleston-anyway?" theories.

well like i said it was a rumor i heard mention on a show(weither or not how factual it was) and i thought that he was a funny yet weird choice for a replacement, that's all.

BIG SPOILER

"I'm a Time Lord. I'm the last of the Time Lords. There was a War... and we lost."

Whew.

Yeah, I'm really not sure about. Seems like a *big* thing to just introduce. Not sure where they're going with it, and not sure I like it, but it could still be interesting. Especially as it's very obvious who the other relevant party is.

"You blow up our planet, we blow up yours"?

Now, I've just been told that in the books, the 8th Doctor himself actually does this (and it causes a retcon wave so that the TLs never existed or somesuch). I don't think they're going with that here tho. Hope not anyway.

When I heard him say that I had to admit to letting out a WTF!!

So, has this happened between the end of the last series and now? or is it even worse and this series has no connection to the previous series?

Either the BBC is covering or they did screw up big time. Supposedly Eccleston was only supposed to do the first season and nothing beyond that. News here .

I have the first episode on VCD but haven't watched it yet... Hopefully this weekend as I'm quite jazzed to watch this one... Loved the Tom Baker and Peter Davison versions (mostly due to my age) and can't wait to see the new designs, Doctor, Tardis, everything!

Not sure when (if) it'll come to OZ tho...

Same here Wayne. I'm enjoying the show by other means but would like to be able to catch it on TV. And you would think they would secure broadcast rights in two of the biggest markets (US and Australia) before announcing a second season.

Actually, Australia's got it now, too. It's set to debut in May...

http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5478,12770528%255E1702,00.html

Me? I just saw "Rose" the other day thanks to a very kind Brit, and I'm loving what I've seen so far. Really looking forward to "The End of the World", it's the one I've wanted to see the most from the moment they announced what it would be about!

I wasn never a Dr.Who fan as a kid. I think it had something to do with the flotting head bit, and the music was just creepy. Fortunately, I'm older now and like creepy things.

I loved the first ep. Can't wait till Tuesday now... except that I have to give an oral presentation on Battle of the Planets on Wednesday.

"...and now I'm going to die in a dungeon... (makes face) in Cardiff!"

Not so sure. I'm convinced now - Billie Piper needs to go. I wasn't fond of her in Rose, far preferred the half of the episode she was stuck in the room in EotW, and now, well, she had a couple of half-decent scenes here, but when you've only got two regulars, both have to be top drawer. Eccleston is. Piper isn't. Pity which one is going at the end of this series

Note to self: Don't check this thread between Saturday and Tuesday.

Oooh! Thanks Pex!

I watched the episode the other day and LOVED it! Sure - the effects may have been hokey at times, and some of the acting may have been a little flat (esp Rose's boyfriend!).
But it had the right feel, and I totally adored the new Doctor. The urban legend intro was a new spin that I found enjoyable, and I like the way that the Doctor has an air of understated hilarity, while still managing to convey the impression of otherworldly introspection.

I am so hanging out for May!

Minor spoiler alerts.

Thoroughly enjoying everything about it so far.

I disagree with Reboot – I reckon that Billie Piper makes a perfect Doctors assistant. She perhaps hasn’t screamed quite enough yet, though………

The first episode was a good starting point – bit of a crap big baddy though – just like a giant pulsing tumour. And as for the audience all shouting “It’s behind you!” – pure pantomime.

The End Of The World – excellent fun, good humour. Excellent MJ joke. Brilliant effects.

The third episode – typical Dr. Who story, good effects once more. The gas beings reviving the dead reminded me of a character in a fairly early Red Dwarf episode – quite, quite mad.


Personally I reckon that this is at least as good, if not a whole pile better, than anything that has gone before in the Dr Who files.
I grew up with the Jon Pertwee / Tom Baker incarnations - anything after left a lot to be desired.

The only real criticism that I’ve heard is that they’re trying to put too much into each episode, doing one story in 45 minutes, rather that the previous 6 x half hour installments. I guess we’ve got the MTV generation to thank for that.
It just means that they don’t run around, get caught, get freed, get caught again etc. ad nauseum as much as they did before.

I, for one, am looking forward to the next ten stories – do you think we’ll see him fill the roles as shown by the conspiracy theorist? Since he’s new in this version, and he only lasts for thirteen episodes………

I have to say the third ep was much better, in my opinion, than the first two. The first two were good and pretty typical Who stories, but the third one really grabbed me. Very good (if a little simple) premis, good cast of only a few characters and some very nice effects. I did guess what was going on pretty much as soon as they held the seance (sp?) but that's not reall a criticism. Billie was very good, very nice interaction between her and the maid, and Simon Callow as Dickens was great (as to be expected though).

I can kinda see what people mean about the length of the stories though. So far they've seemed fine to me, the plots haven't been huge intricate mysteries or anything so there's no reason that they should be any longer than they are, but I don't think they'd have suffered from being an hour long rather than forty-five minutes though. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the reason for the length of each episode is so that they can sell them to overseas markets that want ad breaks included, which would take them up to an hour. It's easier for them to do it as forty-five minute episodes and flog them everywhere than have all the overseas markets want to cut them down or have them run an hour and a quarter.

I would like to see a couple of multi-part stories, but I think personally I'd rather they were no more than two-parters. Most TV series like Dr Who are done like that these days and it more often than not works fine (thinking of Buffy and Angel for example). It's the opposite of what's happening in comics (the dreaded 'decompressed story' thing). If you can tell a story in one go why stretch it out over six episodes? Keeping it short and succinct means that in the long run you can tell more stories.

The next story's a two-parter, and the finale's a two-parter, BTW.

And, like I say, Billie Piper just grates. She's not that bad, but the show can't afford one of it's two regulars to be "not bad, just not that good." But extra screaming wouldn't help.

Episodes 9 and 10 also constitute a two-parter...

Any advance on three two-parters out of the next ten episodes?

Anyone?

Going, going......

Where'd you read that?

From Outpost Gallifrey, located at www.gallifreyone.com

Actually, please forgive the blatant plug, but for the most comprehensive Who news anywhere, I highly recommend OG. In addition to the most up-to-date information on the new series, there's a massively thorough episode and continuity guide, reviews section, releases calendar (books, DVDs, original audio dramas, etc.) and the largest Doctor Who message board (approaching 10,000 members) anywhere online! I highly recommend you give OG a visit (and I'd recommend them even if I weren't a moderator on their message board!)

Anyways, back to the new series...The End of the World was great (one of my new favorite episodes) and I can't wait for The Unquiet Dead, my copy of which should be arriving in the mail on Monday, if the current pattern holds...

I can say I am actually enjoying the new series so far. Can't wait for Aliens of London this weekend. I've been able to grab the episodes as early as Sunday and have them ready to view on Monday.

Yeah, I know about OG, and I'm registered for their forum (as Reboot, even), but I don't recall seeing anything there to the effect that nearly half the episodes of the series are in two-parters. Can you be more specific?

Okay, on the New Series news page, on the far right hand column, scroll down a ways until you get to the cast lists for the episodes. Notice how Aliens of London/WWIII and Episode 12/The Parting of the Ways are listed together, with a single cast list? The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances (#9 and #10) are listed the exact same way. Note they share not only the same cast, but also the same director and writer.

9/10 have been widely known as being a two-parter ever since the writers were first revealed as (IIRC) they made a big deal of the fact that Steven Moffat (creator of "Coupling") was writing a two-parter...

The BBC announced at Midnight (GMT) that David Tennant will be the new Doctor starting next season.

How do you watch them and how can i see them?

I was curious, so I looked this up.

The book in question is called The Ancestor Cell and dates from mid-2000. In it, the Doctor blows up Gallifrey because its Matrix has been incurably infected with a virus by an organization called Faction Paradox. Not sure about any retcon wave.

FP is owned by writer Lawrence Miles, who spun them off into both a comic and novel series. The comic vanished after two issues (in the US, anyway). I've never seen the novels. The relevant point being, unless they cut a deal with Miles, the show won't be doing exactly the same thing as the books.

I'm told that in part 2 here, at around the 11 minute mark, Eccleston spoils who destroyed Gallifrey (no, it's not a huge surprise): http://www.bbc.co.uk/wales/radiowales/shows/doctorwhobackintime.shtml

http://www.beasthouse.fsnet.co.uk/who01.htm

(He had an utterly vitrolic review of ep 3 up, but now it only says "Go away, I'm thinking about it")

Oh, and I liked ep 4. If you laugh at the first "alien" though, you will feel guilty

I liked this too but the main aliens were a big let down, especially in the face. I mean the huge nasty bodies with claws and stuff and those eyes? Just don’t go together do they. Also the mix between CGI and men in suits was a little jarring.

Wonder if the "gas" problem will play a part in this.

i'm not sure what to make of the new "DR WHO" !!??

i've watched the first 3 episodes [ and i enjoyed the 3rd one the most ] i have mixed thoughts on how it has been filmed !!

for me it has too much of a UK tv look about it [ i know it's made in the UK !! ] but in my mind i think it should have had a much more polished look to it, more US !!

i suppose because i watch SO many US shows, i'm just used to seeing things filmed this way .....

it reminds of of "CASUALTY" which is a UK version of "ER" when you compare the production values of the 2 shows, the UK one looks like a student film project !!

i'm still gonna continue watching it, but up until now, i enjoyed the film version from a couple of years back, a lot more !!

and i actually think the new actor that's gonna be taking over will be better !! theres something i don't like about the current one ......

Matthew.

Anyone catch the finale to the two-parter? I just got my copy but haven't had a chance to watch it yet.

Interesting article about the new Dalek up at the BBC.

Best thing about this week's episode (which was quite fun and had Penelope Wilton in, which is always a good thing) was the trailer for next week. We didn't see them, but just hearing 'exterminate!!!' sent shivers up my spine. oooooooh, they're baaa-aaack!

Did too see one - all chained up.
Bondage Daleks.
They'll have one in rubber with a gas mask on next.

I must admit that I was disappointed by the aliens and the Viz style flatulence jokes in the latest two-parter. The story itself wasn't too bad though, just the execution.

Hopefully next weeks will be back to form.

Ooh, didn't see the trailer where you saw the dalek. The one I saw was a shot of Rose by some door (obviously seen from the viewpoint of the dalek) and the Doctor looking at some computer screen with the same image and then he shouted for Rose to look out or something and you just heard the dalek saying 'exterminate' and then it went black. Goooood trailer.

I know what you mean about the last two episodes though Numf. Good story, but slightly let down by some of the execution. Back in the 80s it would have worked fine and you probably wouldn't have picked up on the weak points nearly as much but I think we've been so spoilt by big budget effects on TV shows (thinking Buffy or Battlestar Galactica or even Farscape) that when you get something obviously computer generated and a bit clunky then it jars a lot.

Didn't you see the "Next time" at the end of WW3? By far the best one so far (I'm still trying to figure out, BTW, why. the. HELL. they put one at the end of Aliens of London, being as it was part 1 of 2 and thus completely ruining the cliffhanger).

In order of promo:
"Nearest city?" "Salt Lake City." "Population" "One million." "All dead."
"Why don't you just DIE!!?"
"Impossible..." "EX-TER-MIN-ATE"

It\'s here if you want to see it for youself

Heh. It only took the good Doctor six episodes to kill off SLC. Must be a record.

No, we went to see Kylie on Saturday night so watched the second part of WW3 on BBC3 on Sunday and they just had the short trailer then (I don't think they had the 'next time' bit, or if they did I missed it for some reason). Apparently it's just one Dalek in the next ep, so for it to wipe out a whole city I think means that their claims to have upped the dalek threat is probably going to hold true.

It's tomorrow!!

And if I'm lucky a very friendly Brit will have it ready to go so I can watch it by Sunday.

I have to say I have not gotten into the older series yet but am really enjoying this one. With the new Battlestar Galactica and Doctor Who we have some really good sci-fi TV for once.

awww....

Not the episode i was expecting. Some *fabulous* moments (Doctor? THE Doctor?) even taking into account how duff Bruno Langley was. But, basically...

Awwwww.....

Is that a sympathetic "Awwww"?

Eccelston shone again, especially in the pair of scenes with him ranting at the Dalek, and the "YOU WO-ULD HAVE MADE A FINE DA-LEK" moment was briliant.

Other than that, well, I didn't feel sorry for the Dalek. Those scenes felt slow, not special. The scenes of mass destruction were great, the Doctor and the Dalek moments were great ("I watched it happen! - I MADE IT HAPPEN... *realises where he's going, turns away...* I had no choice"). But the Rose/Dalek and Rose/2012boy scenes dragged.

i saw tonights episode [ after missing the last 2 ] i thought it was pretty good !! liked seeing the CYBERMAN's head [ the original design, too !! ]

the scenes with the Doctor ranting were great, but i've still not taken to CHRIS !! it's the accent, and the way he talks in general !! [ very much like VINCE in "Queer As Folk", most of the things they ever seem to say, always sound in jest, for me ??? ]

i'm enjoying BILLIE the most, so far in this new series ......

Matthew.

Ummm... not even close. The design was from a 1980s story, and looks almost nothing like the original design ( profile ).


Opposite - Mrs Evans' acting ability is highly overrated, I feel.

So, is the rumor I heard true? About the uniqueness of the Doctor and the Dalek?

In theory, if what is said in Dalek is true, yes. In practice, between rumours of what's going to happen in Eps 12 & 13 and some overly-carefully chosen words from Eccleston in last week's Confidential, I suspect the one is not entirely true, and the other is entirely not true.

Also, it's worth bearing in mind we're dealing with time travelleres here so really, how true can it ever be?

And yes, it was a sympathetic awww. It was very contrived and cliched but I still felt very sorry for the poor thing.

thanks for the link REBOOT [ of original CYBERMAN design ]

i guess i was thinking of the more updated version of the CM !! that appeared towards the end of the original tv run !! and the one that was shown in this weeks episode, was in my eyes the "original" look of the CM !!

sorry i forgot about their original debut look [ in the 60's ?? ]

Matthew.

What does everyone see in this show?!? I've sat down and tried to watch a couple of episodes so far and have found them hideously awful in the extreme!

Atrocious acting, the most cornball plots on earth, non-existant tension or suspense, low-rent production values... when I compare it to most American sci-fi shows I cringe.

I guess I never watched it growing up though so don't have the sentimental attachment to it that most of you have. But still...

that's funny !!!

Matthew.

I liked this episode, even if it did take place in Utah.

And to kind of answer Blacula I find this version of the Doctor more, I don't know, accessible than previous. As for the effects compared to American sci-fi, ever seen 90% of the shows on the Sci-Fi network? Cheesy to say the least. I think part of what makes this new series fun is that it has a little of the cheese factor. And wasn't that part of what made the originals so popular?

I'll take all of the episodes so far over any episode of Star Trek: Enterprise or Voyager.

And I can't wait for next week's show. Simon Pegg looks like he's going to chew some scenery.

I will say one thing. If you are setting the episode in the States, at least attempt to cover up any obvious Queen's English signs. You'll not find any caution signs in the U.S. that read "Warning: Overhead Services". Especially in Utah where the general population wouldn't know what two of the three words mean.

I'm not surprised "Warning" and "Service" are well out of the US vocab

So, how was The Long Game with Simon Pegg as the villain? I probably won't get the full episode before tomorrow.

Okay, I've watched the episode now. Not too bad, wish Pegg would have had a bit more of a role. He could have really be the alien in human form. But it was cool to see Fran from Black Books as the nurse.

Can't say that next week's episode looks too exciting though.

So, no comments on The Long Game or Father's Day? I just got my copy of Father's Day and will probably watch it later this week. Hope it turns out better than the previews made it look.

The Long Game was pretty much a nothing.

Fathers Day was saddly obvious, if a bit emotional.

Although I'm still watching avidly, it seems to be turning into a bit of a waste of space (& time!).

Perhaps I'm expecting too much?

How was The Empty Child? And what do you guys (especially 'boot) think of the news that Billie Piper is leaving next season?

The Empty Child was really good. My kids were hugging their pillows tight whilst watching - and that's always a good sign.

Not too much of a surprise that BP's leaving. Apparently her and CE had such a good bond (hints of an affair? I don't know, and have no reason to suspect - but I know that he helped her a lot when she split up with Chris Evans. Just noticed that - same initials - Coincidence? I don't think so! There's one for the conspiracy theorists!)

So, with Christopher Ecclestone leaving it's no real surprise that she's going too.
Pity in my books. I like her.

For the record - I still reckon that this is the best Dr Who series I've ever known - and that's from Jon Pertwee onwards.
Considering how bad the new Star Wars episodes look to someone raised on the original three, I reckon that's quite a feat.

It just seems a bugger that the two stars are going to go their own way after 13 episodes.

Boo hiss!!!!

P.S. If you want to see a real 'Penis Nose' check out Alice Cooper on the front of his Brutal Planet album.

EC was okay, but all the "mummy"ing got irritating in the end.

As for Piper, well, I'm not jumping up and down until I see the replacement on-camera.

I love it
I love Billie
Love the doctor
love it all

I just finished getting "The Doctor Dances" this morning and left it converting over for my PSP to watch at work later this week. How was the second half of this two parter?

I found part one, "The Empty Child", pretty good. Watched it while waiting in the doctor's office for Caroline's mom and couldn't believe I got to see the whole thing. Could have used a little less Captain Jack but I'd rate the episode as one of the best so far.

Captain Jack - was that not a Billy Joel song about masturbating?

Anyway - The Empty Child part two is on a par with the first part - all in all one of the better ones.

Are you my mummy?

Apparently a real-life Jack Harkness published a book on the breeding of Roses. Make of that what you will.

Boomtown was okay. Sort of filler, yeah, but enjoyable in parts.

And next week... "ALERT! ALERT!..."

www.badwolf.org.uk

"If you're concerned by the thought that the universe has been irrevocably altered by an enormous experiment in neuro-linguistic programming, then just tell yourself "The Bad Wolf is not real. The Bad Wolf is not real. The Bad Wolf is not real."

(was inviso-text) Rose - Are you there? Are you getting this? You've got the point, haven't you? Rose...?"

So we have just two more episodes left then, right? Alert! Alert! and The Parting of Ways? Haven't had a chance to watch Boomtown yet but did already get my copy.

OK, do you want to hear the Bad Wolf theory that I heard down in Bristol? OK, spoiler space just in case (this is all speculation you understand but you never know....)

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OK, so if you've seen the last episode then you'll know that Bad Wolf is significant. It's been following the Doctor and Rose around since the start of the series. Some of the references to it have been quite subtle (in the one about the desturction of Earth one of the aliens mentions a 'bad wolf situation', it was the call sign of a helicopter in the dalek episode) and others have been less subtle (the graffiti, the nuclear power plant. And Bad Wolf is, apparently, the big bad for the last two episodes. Now the next episode has the daleks in it *but* it's also been said that they're not the big bad. Something else else or someone else is.

So who is it? Well the theory that I heard, and that i quite like (so is probably waaaay off) goes like this. Remember in The Unquiet Dead that the serving girl (I forget her name) said to Rose that the bad wolf was in her (Rose's) head and that it was coming for them? Remember that Bad Wolf has been following them around wherever and whenever they go? Remember where the graffiti saying Bad Wolf was? Remember that at the start of the series The Doctor said that the Tardis gets into your head and is alive? The aliveness of the Tardis was also reinforced in the last episode.

So, the theory goes, Bad Wolf is somehow the Tardis. Yup, the Tardis itslef is the big bad and the reason that the Doctor regenrates at the end of the series.

OK, the whys and the wherefores I don't know, but it would certainly make sense. The daleks and Davros just seem too obvious. The Master would fit, in the whole time travelling thing, but there doesn't seem to have been anything to point to him. And virtually anyone else (and it is meant to be an existing character) would seem a bit obscure for any but the most hardcore Whovians. It could also explain why the inside of the Tardis is so different (something has happened to it) but...

I dunno, I like it as a theory but as I say i can't see *why* it qwould be the Tardis. It's going to be interesting to see how it plays out though.

Ep 12's called *dum dum dum* Bad Wolf actually. You WILL see what I meant by "ALERT! ALERT"..." (I never put titles in caps - there's another reason for them there )

And Bevis - I'd say that the "Disclaimer" gives it, that's why I posted. Remember, Blon said it "just felt right"

Heh heh, I hadn't actually followed that link until now but it's nice to see some of the other references that i missed. Not sure about a couple of the theories, but the question about Jack's missing two years (why mention it if it's not relevant) and what Adam has been up to are good ones. It bein Jackie or Mickey seem a little... well, odd. I mean, even with what they know how could they really be doing anything. Unless you have a whole 'I travelled back in time after getting powers after all this stuff happens' story which I think would be a bit weak since there's been no indication of that being likely.

I've also had it pointed out to me that the numbers 23-6-801 keep recurring as well. Connection: Likely

And remember, Jack recognised the you-know-what spaceships, and the fact that they were destroyed...

OK, so not wanting to give spoilers or anything but I have just finished watching the penultimate episode and I have a few comments.

First, would someone please tell the BBC or production company or whoever to TURN THE BLOODY MUSIC DOWN. It's been bad in a few other episodes but tonight there were whole sections where I couldn't understand a single bloody word because of the music being so sodding loud.

But then there are the good points.

Guest stars! As robots! Davina Macoll, Anne Robinson and Trinny and Susannah! He he he.

But best of all, absolute best of all, was Captain Jack being naked. Repeatedly. Yay! Now that's what I want from Saturday night TV. Naked bisexual man-tarts flirting with all and sundry and then wearing leather pants after he's finished being naked. Jolly good. Oh, and the bit with his weapon? Heh heh heh. Obviously Captain Jack has talents not made for that time of the evening.

I did love Jack's... em... confidence. "Am I naked in front of millions of viewers? Ladies, your viewing figures just went up!"

The Reality TV stuff worked a LOT better than I expected in general actually. Mostly because they went all-out take-the-hell out of it.

And of course, the speech at the end. It worked. Although the... umm... little Bad Wolves (the Big Bad Wolf to be seen next week) should probably just have killed her there and then.

Still, 9 out of 10. Fantastic ep.

I'd tend to agree with Reboot.

I'd tend not to agree with Bevis's desire for naked Captain Jack every week, but I think he could be a great character. I love the fact that he'll flirt with anyone. Tart indeed.

All round great fun.

I think the Little Bad Wolves (as Reboot put it) would have been a much better surprise if they hadn't shown them in the "in next weeks episode" at the end of last week.

Yeah, quite. Once again the Beeb manage to completely spoil the surprise by showing it in the trailer the week before. Nice. I hope the trailer for next week's show didn't give away anything major.

Oh, and I'm still inclined to think that the Bad Wolf *isn't* the obvious one. I think someone new is manipulating the little wolves. Course, saying that now I'm probably completely wrong.

Did you see the clip on the lottery show afterwards that continued the end of the trailer with "I AM THE GOD OF ALL", umm... wolves (wish I'd never started this now ) and the others going "Worship him!"?

It's probably just a really big version of the wolves. I don't think it's... ummm... the wolf-breeder (REALLY wish I'd never started this now )

I hope it isn't the wolf breeder because that's just too bloody obvious to my mind. Of course I could just be being tricksy in thinking that it should be something or someone else, but it didn't *sound* like the wolf breeder in the trailer straight after the episode (I didn't see the later one but Chris did and said something about how the wolves were saying that the Big Bad Wolf was their *new* lord or god or something. Like I say I didn't see that so I'm not sure how accurate that is).

I'm still inclined to think maybe the TARDIS has something to do with it still. Chris likes that theory just because the inside of the TARDIS looks kind of like a ..... wolf...

Actually, there's apparently a wolf emperor from the 60s (as opposed to the wolf breeder's 80s model) that Russell T Davies apparently likes. Google for the look of it (if you still have a clue what I'm on about, that is )

I reckon it could be the wolf master .......

That's maybe not subtle enough .....

Well, Davies has said in interview that Bad Wolf WASN'T

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The Master, but that it was an old Doctor Who enemy. He also said it wasn't the obvious "wolf", Fenris.

However, if the "Tardis theory" given earlier on this thread is valid (and I do like it) it could be the Master, since he was sucked into the Eye of Rassilon in the Tardis in the Doctor Who movie with Paul McGann.

Candidates?

Davros (but does he have that power)
Rani
Omega


At least those are the obvious choices.

Also, Captain Jack is way too smug and knows too much to be who he prentends to be in my opinion.

One other thing guys... Be careful next week. There's a 1 hour long Making of of the whole series just before the last episode, and the usual Doctor WHo confidential after the episode on BBC3

And of course, the series should end with...


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You've been warned...


The Doctor's regeneration...

The Master is one of the obvious candidates, which is why I think it's not him (but that could just be me being obtuse). In the same way Davros just seems too obvious, especially if Chris was right about the bit with the wolves talking about their new master. Thinking about the way the series has run so far I'm expecting it to be someone who hasn't been associated with the Daleks before making their team up all the more impressive. By the same reasoning though I don't think it's going to be anyone too obscure otherwise there are going to be a hell of a lot of people sat there next week going 'huh?'. But if Davis was telling the truth and it's an old Who villain, then that implies that it's not any of the new characters from this series (Adam, Captain Jack, Rose's mother, annoying Mickey).

I have to say I'd forgotten about the Master actually having been sucked into the TARDIS in the crappy movie, but that could be a nice thing to play on (even if it does remind us there was the crappy movie in the first place).

Oh, and as for the Doctor at the end... apparently when they filmed the last episode they filmed it in such a way that he didn't regenerate (because it was before Eccleston announced his departure) so that most of the cast and crew didn't know it was going to hapen. Then they filmed the alternative ending so that it could be a big secret. The intention was that Eccleston would only annouce his departure after they screened the last episode (because he only ever signed on for one series and never intended to stay longer). Only then Eccleston himself mentioned in an interview right at the start of the series that he wasn't going to be in another series and managed to spoil the whole surprise element. I find that a little annoying, and a bit disingenuous of Eccleston if true, but I think the big thing about the final episode is not that he does regenrate but how and why.

Oh, and I'm still thinking that Captain Jack's missing two years is relevant, otherwise why bother mentioning it in the first place since it didn't play any part in the other episodes he's been in.

The BBC apologised unreservedly to Ecclestone for letting slip in a press interview. I believe that he was bloody angry aboout it, as it had been agreed that nothing would be said, and he didn't want to look like a prick.

It struck me as being too much of a coincidence that they were showing Casanova on BBC1 the next day. Call me cynical ......


After being away from the screens for far too long, apart from avid fans, your general public aren't going to remember too many baddies that could have command over the daleks.

Also, if my hypothesis is correct then it would give them a way of escaping the Time Wars ......

Hidden in a broom cupboard of the TARDIS.

Awww the paul McGann movie wasn't THAT bad... I can think of at least a complete season of Colin Baker that was worse LOL

I think the problem with that TV movie is that (no offence meant guys but...) it was too American. In trying to reach the general US audience, they lost a fair bit of what Doctor WHo was all about.

Still there are some very good things in there. The regeneration scene was fab and so was the inside of the Tardis...

Yeah, I know what you mean pariscub. If it hadn't been about Doctor Who then it might not have been so bad, but it was so far removed from what Doctor Who had been before that it just fell flat on it's face.

Oh, and have you seen the trailer that they're running on the Beeb this week. Only a short one but it has the wolves (sorry, can we say daleks now? ) saying something along the lines of 'bow before our new god' (begging the question how daleks can possibly bow) and the Doctor looking *up* and the Big Bad Wolf saying something I forget in a very Davros/daleky voice. The implication being that even if it isn't Davros then it's someone at least slightly dalekified. The fact that they're talking about their *new* god would imply it's not Davros since, you know, not new. The fact that Doctor is looking up could either mean that it's someone very big or that it's just someone standing somewhere higher than the Doctor is. Only four days to go now though. I just hope the pay off is worth all the speculation.

I think that's a pretty accurate assessment. (No offense taken on the American thing either) I didn't like the idea that the Doctor was half-human much. Didn't add anything to the character.

As for the villain, I don't think anybody's mentioned The Monk, The War Chief, or that guy who worked with the Cybermen yet. Could be a reworking of one of those.

i really enjoyed last weeks episode !! the initial description of it had given me reservations !!

what with the reality tv premise and the featured presenters being very BRITISH, but i guess most countries have "The Weakest Link" and the US have been showing "What not to wear" the only "stranger" would be Davina McCall !!

the ending was cool, and i liked the BAD WOLF theme that had run through the whole season, it was great to see the flashbacks !!

loking forward to next week with all those DALEKS !!

so will we see Chris regenerate !!?? or will that be in the Christmas special ??

Matthew.

It's next week and you WILL NOT believe who is going to be playing a returning character in the LAST episode!!!!!

Hint:"We are talking jape of the decade! We are talking April, May, June, July and August fool!"

Doctor WHo has been confirmed for a THIRD series!!!!!!

That and two Xmas specials... and apparently Billie Piper is staying on for Season 2 (information from the BAFTA screening of the last episode.)

Matt, Eccleston does indeed regenrate in the last episode (well, according to all the stuff released so far but the Bebb could be playing double bluff) but the Christmas special has him as the Doctor in it. There have been a couple of mentions of adventures we've not seen during this series though so it's easy enough to just say that it's from somewhere in the middle of the series. Unless of course it's some kind of trick again...

Oooh, I really should stop trying to second guess this prgramme since it doesn't seem to work very well.

Where did you hear Eccleston was in the Xmas special? In the last Davies interview I read last week, he confirmed that Tennant would be in the Xmas special and that Eccleston wouldn't be. Has there been changes since then?

oooh, that's news to me. Eccleston said in some interview that they'd already filmed the Christmas one before he finished the first series. Unless of course it's a classic Doctor meets Doctor story...

And you ARE the April, May, June, July and August fool if you believed it http://observationdome.ofla.info/archives/2005/june/06-2148.html

Oh, and since we're saying "Dalek" now, here's what I was suggesting the "GOD OF ALL DALEKS" (and it's "WOR-SHIP HIM", not bow ) is:

[img]http://tinypic.com/5zjnrl[/img]

Hmm... that's odd. I've always thought the Xmas story was Okayed AFTER Eccleston had finished filming the show. I'm not even sure they started fiming yet... Ahh well, we'll soon know more about that!

Maybe they'll use some Eccleston footage that they had filmed "just in case"...

Hi Reboot,

I got this info from the tvtome.com website...in the credits listed for Parting of the Ways it lists Norman wasshisname who played Holly in Season 1, 2, 8 of Red Dwarf as playing Davros.

So if the site was wrong, I apologize for getting too excited when no one has seen the episode yet.

additional...
the tvtome.com site has been totally changed and the info that WAS there for guest cast credits hasn't been entered yet so yeah, it looks like I'm the April, May, June, July and August fool...for now

<ducks>

Moral of this story: Never trust FoilerTome (although they nicked it from iMDB, clearly, which makes them look even worse )

Well, anyone who's read the Sun has now seen the pictures and been spoiled of many things concerning the episode...

My, does that thing look big!

(no, I won't spoil it here, but it does look awesome)


And....

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What is this about Captain Jack kissing the Doctor on the mouth....

"You were fantastic - and d'y'know what? So was I."

You were Chris - cheers.

The kiss was quite sweet.

The big reveal about who the baddy was and who Bad Wolf was were... well, they made sense and they worked but I was vaguely let down after all the hype.

Unfortunately bloody Mickey had to turn up again (boo) but the whole bit with Rose and the TARDIS at the end was really nice. i thought Billy did a really, really good job in that scene.

Overall a good episode, some very nice moments (the bit with the daleks coming up outside the window), some very funny lines and some good Whovian performances. And yet...

I dunno. There's nothing specific that I can point out and say it was bad or anything, but I was left feeling vaguely disappointed. Not as much as I was by the one with Rose's father, but still not quite as pleased as I should be.

That being said I'm looking forward to David Tennant but I hope he gets an outfit more in line with the previous Doctors because it's the onyl thin (well, apart from the inside of the TARDIS) that I really haven't liked this series.

Billy?

And yes, the deus ex machina (does that count as a literal dem or just figurative?) and... well, Jackie was more annoying than Mickey by an order of several magnitudes, as per usual, but the "present day normality" scenes weren't very good (and have been consistantly the weakest part of the series).

Eccleston gave one last great performance though - I said back on page one, after Rose that he was a "keeper," and, 13 weeks later, nothing has diminished my opinion of him as a great Doctor (or, indeed, actor). I can't help but think that the series may well have lost it's biggest asset with this regeneration .

That said, I haven't seen Tennant in anything, but we'll see how he does (wish he'd gone with his natural accent though).

I'm not sure how a Scottish accent would do for overseas broadcasting though... But I agree with you.

I've seen Tennant in Casanova, and I must say he's very good... He could do a good Tom Baker like Doctor... Still, it's really a shame that Eccleston decided to leave.

Loved the last episode, but thought the Bad Wolf/Time Vortex could have been better handled. And it was nice to see the Dalek Emperor after so many years (was it Throughton or the first Doctor, can't even remember)

The Dalek Emperor, the giant-sized original was first/last seen in Evil of The Daleks in the Troughton era. It was the last Dalek story of the 60s.

Arghhhh!!


I missed Saturday's showing but was not too disappointed as I knew I could watch the BBC 3 repeat on Sunday.

Except

Due to really freaky weather (sunshine and temp in the 30's followed by rain hailstones and flooding) our satellite receiver lost the signal for all but the last ten minutes of the show. So I got to see the bad wolf and stuff but missed all the Dalek stuff.

<Bangs head on desk>

Hope you got to see it Darden. I just sat down at lunchtime yesterday and watched my copy. Very nicely done I think. Although the Bad Wolf, to me, was a bit of a let down. I think they could have done something more with it.

Not having really been a Who fan before this series I will say that Eccleston was very good. I think he grew into the role nicely and was sorry to see him go at the end. Has a regeneration ever been shown before on a show? And has a doctor been able to warn his companion of his impending changes?

I'll be around for the next series as well as the Christmas special. Hopefully by then we'll have a real outlet for the show in the US. Wish it was sooner than December for something new though. I've gotten used to my weekly Who sci-fi fix. Oh well, guess I'll have to settle for the new season of Battlestar Galactica next month.

I'm pretty sure I'm right in saying the only regeneration that we *haven't* seen was Paul McGann into Christopher Eccleston. Every other change has shown them going from one actor to the next (I think most of them with just a cross fade effect, but McCoy to McGann was probably flashier than that and no doubt involved morphing). I can't say I've ever seen the first two regenrations shown on telly though so i can't be too sure about them.

I wasn't sure if the regenerations was something that was originally planned into the show or something that evolved over time.

I'm not certain how long the first Doctor lasted for, but the impression I get from watching TV shows about Doctor Who is that it wasn't really planned right from the start but what with having a very sucessful show and the lead actor wanting to leave it was the best way of replacing him and still carrying on before.

It has to be said though that I think it's a *genius* plot device. How many shows have there been where the lead actor quits or is fired and then the show goes into freefall because of the lack of the original star? There are a couple that have managed to survive by replacing them completely with a new character (Charmed for example) but to have a reason why a new actor is playing the same character and not just pretend didn't happen is a great idea. OK, so they've now limited the number of regenerations to thirteen (I think it's thirteen anyway) but they can always get around that by saying the Doctor is special or something. And anyway even if you don't count Peter Cushing from the films David Tennant is only the tenth Doctor so they can have another three regenerations before that becomes an issue.

Hey Bevis,

I never heard of David Tennant. Is he Chris Eccleston's replacement as Dr. Who for the next series?

He is indeed. He's been in a few things here in teh UK, but whether they've made it beyond our shores I couldn't say. He played Casanova in a recent TV drama thingy that the Beeb did and he's very good. Not sure if he's using his Scottish accent as the Doctor (it was hard to tell from the few words he said at the end of the final episode of Dr Who) but he's... well, ou look at him and think that he shouldn't be terribly sexy or charasmatic but then you see him on screen and oh my goodness is he hot. He's just incredibly charming on screen, very, very sexy and a good actor to boot, so he should fit into the Doctor Who role very well. I hope.

I thought Peter Davison had the hottie stamp when he did Dr. Who

For Bevis:

Original series went from 1963 to 1989

i missed the final episode !! guess i'll have to wait for the DVD to come out !!

Matthew.

It definitely wasn't planned from the beginning.

I believe that William Hartnell didn't really want to leave but that he was in ill health and couldn't keep up with what was a demanding film schedule.

Note to Bevis:

Tried downloading some info concerning David Tennant off the Internet Movie Database website. Regrettably, the dude did not have a face pic, so i might have to take your word about how good looking he is.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/gallery/13gallery/index.shtml - See the last couple of pics.

Or http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/ram/bb/regeneration_16x9_bb.ram for the regen scene

Figured I'd post this here instead of the Series 2 thread.

The USA will finally be getting the good Doctor. But it is just the DVD release of Series 1. BBC Video will be releasing "Doctor Who: The Complete First Series" in Region 1 format on Valentines Day, February 14, 2006. While the set will contain more than 4 hours of extras it will carry a hefty price tag, $99.98. A bit pricey for a 13 episode series.

I also found it interesting that the BBC claims they are releasing the DVD set in advance of plans of licensing the series for broadcast in the US. Earlier this year it was they couldn't find an outlet. I wonder if they now plan to leverage decent DVD sales to get a network to carry it.

$100??? Man, the UK version is only $74! Even with shipping to the US it would be cheaper to import them (assuming one has a region free dvd player).

for the two-hour American premier scheduled for tomorrow night (3/17) on the Sci-Fi channel .

Yeah! can't wait to see them again!

i'm hoping the new Doctor Who is successful here in the US, enough so that the Sci-Fi Channel orders the second series too.....

Yeah- but it's in a Tardis shaped box - how cool is that?

Could someone rename this thread to Doctor Who: Series 1, please?

Actually, the US (R1) got lucky and got a normal-ish box.

And, given the ****ing booby-trapped, disc-scratching fall-apart-if-you-breathe-on-it Tardis box... I'd rather we'd got the same box as the R1ers.

I haven't read a single post in this thread yet... I've been trying my damndest to completely AVOID any news or discussions about WHO... UNTIL it finally debuted on the air over here. That was tonight! (The following copied from an e-mail I just sent a friend of mine in Wales.)


Having seen every TV Doctor and enjoyed all of them to varying degrees, I figured I'd be in a good position to have an opinion of this new guy (compared to many Americans who "only" know or like one guy-- whichever that one may be).

Right off the bat, I KNEW they "got" it righter than the last try (the tv movie) because they STARTED with the girl-- the "normal" person-- and then introduced The Doctor, but only let slip a few details here and there as they went. In a way, this was the BEST "introduction" of a new era that the show has seen... maybe ever. Maybe since Hartnell, which is what I was reminded of. Nothing in the 2 episodes they ran tonight openly contradicts anything in previous eras... but you DON'T need to have ever seen the series before to follow this.

In fact, that's another thing that really hit me about halfway thru the 2nd story. I found myself cursing at EVERY British writer who ever thought it was "clever" to keep the audience COMPLETELY in the dark about what the HELL is going on unless they watch the story 10 times. As FAST-paced as these were, as COMPLEX as they were, I understood EVERYTHING. Damn. It was like the old days-- except "on speed".

The Doctor is probably the only thing about the show I'm NOT crazy about, but even he was fun to watch in spots. Overall he's admirable, but not overly likeable. But then, neither was Hartnell (at first), Pertwee (for his first 2 years), Baker (I LIKED him, but at times he drove me NUTS with his out-of-control behavior). The new guy's quirkiness reminded me of McCoy, his abbrasiveness reminded me of Colin Baker... I keep thinking what a waste it was for such a good actor to have gotten screwed over so badly with terrible writing, directing, the worst costume in the show's history, etc...

I figured out very quickly that The Nestene was the villain in the 1st story-- they made it MUCH scarier than it ever was in the 2 Pertwee stories.

I noticed at the end the show was done by BBC Wales. (What, the "main" BBC couldn't be bothered with what had once been their biggest moneymaker worldwide?) One more good thing to come from Wales-- eh?

I decided up front NOT to tape the new show... partly because my 2 old VCRs are not working properly with editing, partly because the way tv stations run ANYTHING has become an aggravating nuisance, partly because the new show is ALREADY available commercially, and partly because they're running the shows several times a week, each time they do run them. Whole different world than the 80's, eh?

I made the right decision... too many "pop-ups" during the show, and the end credits COMPLETELY interrupted by coming attractions. Everybody seems MORE concerned with telling you about what's coming up than letting you enjoy what's on NOW. Grrrrrrrrrr. I'm used to 26 years of watching the end credits and being able to enjoy the music AND read the credits-- and you can't do either on the Sci-Fi Channel. Screw them... I figure, I'll be able to afford to buy the shows someday...


My all-time favorite TV show is back... and it looks like it's in the hands of people who KNOW what the hell they're doing. (Yay!)

I saw the two episodes last night. I thought they were good although I am not too sure about a complete story in each episode. I guess I am just too used to the multi-episode stories of the original series.

Story-wise, one thing I really did not like was when they had the Doctor say that all the other time lords & Gallifrey had been destroyed in a war. I think that was bad writing. If they don't want to use other time lords and/or Gallifrey, they don't have too. But now the writers are backed into a corner.

$100 isn't uncommon, even for a 13-ep season. All the HBO shows (Sopranos, Six Feet Under, etc.) carry that price tag.

I kind of have mixed feelings about Galifrey as well. On the one hand, I didn't want to see it in the new series. On the other, it seems a shame that it's gone, even if it does make this Doctor unique now. Of course, it's all time travel: If they want to bring it back, they can.

Thanks to a favorite blogger of mine, I caught the Sci-Fi Channel airing in the nick of time last Friday night.

I REALLY enjoyed the two shows. I had no idea how much I had missed the Doctor.

The shows have an energy and drive to them that is pleasingly contemporary. As much as I loved the slow, soap-opera like pace of the original, I think this approach works fine. It certainly keeps you glued to your seat like Battlestar Galactica does.

I found the end of the world episode delightful, poignant, wry, clever, funny and moving. Hauntingly beautiful, too -- the decadent, art deco interior of the viewing station seems perfect for watching "earth death." A real accomplishment given the likely limitation of funds at BBC.

The lead characters were written and performed brilliantly, as were the supporting characters. The wonderful thing about good sci-fi is its ability to blow open the minds of the earth-bound, and that's exactly what happens to Rose in this episode. The wireless phone call from the end of the world was just awesome. And Clarissa the last human, the facelift without a body, just brilliant.

I don't mind that the Doctor is the only survivor of his species. This seems to be setting up some larger background plot, which is cool. And, since they are Time Lords, they can always pop up again, right? Some split-second shard of the past, subjected to cosmic inflation and duplication (SW-6, anyone)? Anyway, it gives a real sense of urgency and poignancy to the Doctor's character. He never seemed to like his homeworld much, but no one wants to alone in the universe. And, he wants to keep earth and humanity from suffering the same fate. Also, whatvever his personal feelings about the old hometown, its destruction seems to represent a profound personal failue, something the Doctor has a hard time accepting.

I can't wait until my son is a little older. I think he will enjoy watching this new Doctor Who.

It's not a minor detail. Wait for Ep 6 (and, to a lesser extent, 8)...

Speaking as someone who never could get into the original Dr. Who series (I tried and tried since it is on PBS here all the time), I really loved this new version. It ranks right up there with the new BSG for me as one of the best sci-fi series around. Eccleston, to me, was a great choice and I'm not sure I'm going to like Tennant as much. I've seen the Christmas Invasion episode, which is Tennant's first full one, and, while enjoyable, didn't quite like Tennant's Doctor. I'm hoping he'll grow into the role for me as the second series begins. Meanwhile, I need to make Caroline watch these showings on Sci-Fi with me since I think she'll like them.

The pacing of WHO has been slowly getting faster and faster over time... Many of the Hartnells & Pertwee stories dragged terribly (the 6-parters, at least) while Tom Baker's only occasional 6-parters all felt like they deserved to be extra-length. Starting with "The Five Doctors" and "Ressurection of the Daleks" you suddenly had what felt like TWICE the amount of story being CRAMMED into the space of a 4-parter. McCoy's 2nd & 3rd seasons ALL felt like they had too much story for the time available, and in some instances they actually cut so much of what was filmed they wound up releasing "expanded" videos to try and make up for the fact that you couldn't completely follow the plot as broadcast. Yeesh!

Eccleston's first 2 stories seemed every bit as lightning-paced as the fastest McCoy's-- maybe more so-- and yet, I didn't get lost anywhere! THAT's good writing!


Still trying to avoid finding out anything before I get to see it myself... On the basis of only what I've seen, I'd have to take a guess that The Doctor has only just recently regenerated, and the Nestene threat was his first adventure in the new body. Also, it strikes me that a war that destroyed Gallifrey may have been what led to his latest regeneration. I find it an interesting parallel that in the earliest Hartnell stories we knew he was from some really advanced civilization, but for some reason he couldn't go back there, although he hoped he might someday.

The Time Lords have had a long history of not doing what they could to help the rest of the universe... and of actually forgetting their own history and technology... not to mention being a breeding ground for immense corruption and evil themselves. There's a number of races to whom they're NOT a mystery, and at least once they were almost taken down by an invasion-- on another occasion, by one of their own. Someone wiping them out would almost seem inevitable... although it DOES bring to my mind, wouldn't this cause a major change in the status quo of how The Doctor lives / regenerates and how his TARDIS even works at all? Time Lord power was supposed to have come from the balancing of the gravitational forces of their home planet with a collapsed star held in statis on the surface of their planet... (That Robert Holmes...!!!)

While it's true The Doctor could travel "back in time" (so to speak) to visit Gallifrey before its destruction, Time Lords generally do seem to avoid crossing their own time-paths (anniversary specials notwithstanding... heh heh heh).

<span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">Unless their airhead companion forces them to. </span></span>

Wow. That was quite nice. I haven't seen any Doctor Who episodes in at least 10 years but that really took me back. It just "felt" like Doctor Who. When I saw Eccleston with the cropped hair and the leather jacket I thought he had no chance, but he really pulls it off quite nicely. He kind of had the Tom Baker sense of fun, combined with the Colin Baker sens of doing something horrible at any moment. In a good way. Can't say much on Rose yet after the first two episodes, beyond that she meets the standard Plucky Girl companion type pretty well. I guess I'll always be pretty nostalgic about this show. My dad and I used to watch it every Saturday night, when the local PBS station would show the old shows with the multipart stories edited into one long movie. This is quite a departure from Battlestar Galactica that normally has that timeslot, but here's hoping that Sci-Fi stays with the series beyond this season.

There should be plenty more "plucky gal" types on the new series - and a Doctor who should regenerate every five years or so, instead of just doing it once (Eccleston supposedly getting bored with his new role).

so far, so good.

I approve.

I heard Eccleston only ever intended to do one series and the fact was kept quiet by the producers. He was afraid of Typecasting and I have never heard of him leaving because he was bored.

It’s a shame really because by the end of the series he had turned into possibly my favourite Doctor. The final episode has a poignant melancholy about it that give a genuine sense of loss and parting. Tennant has potential but I need to see more, we know that Davis is a good writer and enjoys working with Tennent so the chemistry may still be there.

And in the ultimate irony I think Eccleston, because of the success of his portrayal is going to be referred to as “Eccleston –ex Doctor Who” for many many years to come.

Yup, that's what I heard too. The Beeb signed Eccleston for just teh oen series to relaunch it with a 'name' attached but the intention was always that he'd leave at the end of the first series and that Tennant would take over. In fact the Beeb announced the Christmas special originally with Eccleston mentioned as the Docotr even though there was no intention of him doing it so as to keep the final episode change a secret. But then Eccleston let slip in an interview about half way through the series that he was leaving. The Beeb apparantly weren't happy about that because it spoiled the big surprise but there wasn't anything they could do about it. A shame because that would have made then end of the last episode even more 'wow' than it was. Kind of like in Buffy where they didn't say Angel was going to make a reappearance for the last couple of episodes but then included David Boreanaz's credit in the opening sequence. D'oh.

Wrong way around Bevis.

Ecclestone was exceedingly pissed off that a junior at the Beeb let slip 'accidently' that he was only there for the one series. He hadn't wanted to be type-cast, but hadn't wanted the public to think he was jumping ship.
They even apologised publically to him.

I always thought that it was a deliberate ploy by the Beeb, 'cos it was the week before they showed 'Casanova', which they could then state had 'the next Dr Who, David Tennant' in it.

Hey Darden,

Thanks for clarifying that misconception which I had read about in one of those grubby sci-fi tabloids. So Eccleston was only contracted to do one series? What's all this about typecasting?

LAM

Some snippits of Information taken from a website Pride of Manchester

Give a flavour of what he is trying to do to avoid typecasting

Meaningful work was hard to come by for about three years but he then made his film debut in the true story Let Him Have It . This film was about Derek Bentley, a mentally retarded 19-year old epileptic, who was hanged for supposedly inciting his accomplice to kill a policeman in 1952. The execution was seen as a miscarriage of justice for many years

Consequently he has always enjoyed working in TV and whilst he prefers gritty working class roles to "pissing about doing Noel Coward" he is anxious to avoid being type-cast. He cites Alan Bleasdale, Ken Loach and Siegfried Sassoon amongst his influences and would like to work with Martin Scorsese and John Sayles.

Credits includes a lot of classy work but stand-outs in terms of his career progression must be his role as Detective Chief Inspector Bilborough in Cracker, as the title role in Jude, and as David in Shallow Grave .

He has played roles in Elizabeth and 28 Days later would be a hit for Eccleston

Chris has made a strong mark already and interest in him is so strong that his future must be assured. He has starred alongside Cameron Diaz in 'Invisible Circus', shares the billing with Nicole Kidman in 'The Others' and played a homeless person in the highly acclaimed '24 Hour Party People'.

To me it was this interest in gritty, realistic and working class roles that made me have doubts about him when he announced he was taking on Doctor Who.

the 3rd (1869) episode is just finishing up here on the East Coast. It was a lot of fun, and Charles Dickens saves the day!

I'm liking the series, not nearly as much as BG, but liking it nonetheless.

Like last week, I sat thru the entire episode thinking how REALLY GOOD the writing on this new show is... MUCH better than ANYTHING Sylvester McCoy had (and Eccleston REMINDS me a lot of McCoy's character). It proves that adage, "There's no such thing as bad characters, just bad writing."

I KNOW Mark Gatiss has done some WHO before... but was it the old show, novels, spin-offs, or audio adventures?

It's amazing how they manage to cram a lot into each story, yet have room for slow, liesurely chartacter moments, like at the end. Wonderful stuff. I was also reminded of a favorite incident some years back. I got to see a local production of "The Mystery Of Edwin Drood". The play worked on a few levels, because it was done as a "play-within-a-play". You had the cast playing a fictional Victorian-era acting troupe, putting on a production of Dicken's UNFINISHED play, and when they ran out of script, members of the fictional troupe would circulate thru the audience with a questionaire, with the audiences (supposedly) deciding HOW the play should end! (It was a a cleverly-constructed ruse... all the IMPORTANT stuff was out of their hands and never changed.) The title character was played by a fictional ACTRESS known as a "famous male impersonator", and while everyone else was a working stiff SHE was a prima donna that everyone hated. So when the question came up, "Should her character be found to be alive or dead, the ENTIRE CAST (who got that question themselves) all voted "dead". So a few minutes into the last act, the actress, now in her street clothes, suddenly stormed thru the theatre on her way out the door. HILARIOUS!!! I enjoyed myself so much I went back to see it again 2 weeks later, and managed to get a better seat, too.

caught that episode last night for fun and gave it a try....so far I liked it. will watch again next week. good show.

Enjoyed the second half of the show. Caught a few Who's on late night PBS back in the 80's, enjoyed them more or less. I'll get fished in just to fill my BSG jones, I'm sure...I really liked the realism of the girl's reaction. Suddenly she realizes she's stuck at the end of the world with a guy she doesn't even really know, surrounded by aliens, life in danger...Oh, sh#t!

As soon as they figured out, 12 months, not 12 hours, I started thinking, now THIS is the kind of time-travel-related stuff you'd EXPECT a time-travel show could deal with more often than this one ever did.

"900 years and this is the first time I've ever been slapped by someone's mother!" I've also noticed they keep bringing up the subject of sex-- if only to push it aside. This was 3 episodes in a row where they did that... I guess it's to be expected, but it's still a bit jarring being on THIS show-- kinda like when curse words first turned up in the STAR TREK movies!

It's amazing how clear and straightforward the storytelling is, yet they still manage to include some genuine surprises-- like WHAT the driver of the crashed spaceship looked like. (GO SEE FOR YOURSELF!!! heehee) The whole story, I kept waiting to UNIT to turn up. Did they really need ALL those weapons just to "invite" their top expert to help them? (Who would have thought Rose's mother was actually doing everyone a FAVOR by calling the cops?)

And whatta ya know... I kept sensing this would turn out to be a 2-parter (the equivalent of an old 4-parter). As FAST-paced as the shows got in the 80's and even FASTER-paced as they are now, I swear, the last minute or two seemed like time just FROZE in place, as the suspense-- SLOWLY-- BUILT-- UP-- until the cliffhanger. I love how they manage to include slow, even liesurely scenes, in addition to all the frenetic ones.

I'm behind, just watched the Dickens episode. They are really doing a great job of emphasizing the amazing aspects of time travel. Misquoting: "Christmas day comes and goes...but we can go back and relive the day. No wonder you do what you do." Brilliant.

The "zombies" were pretty creepy. I did, however, see ahead of time that the "angels" were not nice. Good to know that the Doctor is not infallible (does that mean he IS fallible?).

"I'm so glad I met you." Hmmm.

I was listening to the girl's accent--I've heard it before, but it's pretty distinct from other English accents. I found myself wondering if her accent would place her for an English audience, like a Brooklyn or Southern accent would place someone for Americans. Anyone?

Which girl are we talking about there afob? If it's Rose (the Doctor's assistant) then I'm pretty sure she's a Londoner. Londoners might be able to place her more specifically than that but to me most London accents (and a lot of Southern ones to boot) sound the same. I can place Manchester accents and North west accents quite closely though.

D'oh, it's just occured to me that your talking about the servant girl. In that case she's not got an English accent at all, she's got a Welsh one. It's a while since I saw the ep but from memory she's a Taff (South Walian) and is almost certainly from Cardiff (sicne that's where it's filmed). Shirley Bassey is also from Cardiff and Catharine Zeta Jones and Tom Jones are both South Walian as well so have similar accents (although CZJ is from wansea I think and Tom is from the Valleys so they have slightly different accents). It's a similar accent to me when I'm drunk since I grew up in mid Wales.

My Dad used to play ethinic Irish music on the weekends. Quite often, someone "fresh off the boat" would come up and ask, "S'tell me, what COUNTRY are y'from?" Apparently, in Ireland, people tend to be able to identify what COUNTY you're from just by your accent. (This reminds me of the opening sequences of MY FAIR LADY... heh heh)

The irony was, more than once, people would say the band was doing "the best Irish music they'd ever heard"-- but, the band consisted of (get this) an Englishman, a Scot, and a Polish guy (my Dad)!

does anyone know if the Cybermen will show up in Series 1 at all?
it's nice that the Daleks show up, but i was hoping for more 'classic/old' DR WHO villains...

There is a cyberman helmet in one episode (the first Dalek ep) but it's just part of a collection. That being said they are going to be in an episode in season 2 so you shouldn't have to wait too long.

I was talking about Rose. There's something about the "th"s becoming "f"s ("I'm wiff him").

Oh, she's full on Londoner then. Ermm.... if you've ever seen Eastenders (the world's most miserable soap opera) they've got the same accent. Can't think of anyone else famous with the same kind of accent, but there must be some. Like I say though Londoners could probably place her exactly to which area of London she's from.

It's not her natural accent, so it's probably just genericlondinium

"Dalek". WOW.

MORE DANGEROUS than ever-- and there was ONLY ONE of 'em! Whoa. I loved the parts where, repeatedly, people kept underestimating them, because of what they look like. To horrible results.

"You would make an excellent Dalek." Scary-- ain't it? The scene where Rose asks, "What are YOU becoming?" brought back memories of Colin Baker & Peri-- only, if they'd been "done right".

More than anything, this one episode proved to me, once again, that Terry Nation had NO IDEA what to do with his own creations. He was so busy getting RICH off the merchandising, he never bothered to put any thought into later stories. (The much-heralded "Genesis" was at least 50% Robert Holmes' work.)


An idea that really crossed my mind last night was, while most of the surviving Doctors are not probably far too old for return appearances, they could EASILY do a "flashback" story showing the "last Time War"-- and have Paul McGann star in it.

"NOW probably far too old" (damn typos)

I just finished the two-parter about the spaceship crashing in London. Some thoughts:

The aliens were much scarier BEFORE we actually saw them. The "ET on steriods" look is pretty...silly. The actors portraying them were creepier.

The most interesting thing about these two episodes were the ones left behind, the feelings that Rose had about her adventures, and the relationship developing between the Doctor and Rose. I found myself wondering how a 900 year old dude would get along with twentysomething...Since I feel like I have very little in common with most people under thirty.

Dalek episode: I assume that these guys have appeared before. Nice little light bulbs when they talk...I kept waiting for Rose to get suckered, but it turns out that she was more right about the Dalek than the Doctor was. It's good to know that the Doctor is not infallible.

Big slimy thing on the ceiling episode: Got a little confusing, but still entertaining. I really like this show. I'm glad to see that the pretty boy got dumped at the end--with a lovely hole in his head. Obviously, that guy's never going to any beatnik poetry competitions....

afob, is this the first time you have encountered the Daleks? Ooooh, they terrified whole generations of British (and American and Aussie and all teh rest children) with their scary voices and their trundly-ness. I'm not really sure why tehy were so scary (and still are) but they always scared the hell out of me when I was little. I also absolutely loved them and had a great dalek board game as well with red and gold and blue and silver daleks as the counters. That game rocked... Of course even more scary than the daleks is their creator Davros who is just terrifying. If you're liking this series of Doctor Who then it's worth seeing if you can find any the old series on DVD or video and watching them. As with most series some of the episodes are rubbish, some are great and you'll inevitably love some of the Doctors and hate others. That being said most of the dalek episodes are worth checking out just for the daleks themselves regardless of which Doctor features.

Dalek creator Terry Nation said he was "offended" by the very idea of writing for a "children's" show, and decided to give them the scariest thing he could come up with. When the show, in its infancy, kept running into production problems, one script after another was not ready to go before cameras, and so the 2nd story they ever did turned out to be the one they didn't WANT to do-- one featuring "bug eyed monsters". Wouldn't you know? THAT's what made the series a hit! Designer Ray Cusick came up with something as alien as he could with almost no budget. They wanted something that could not recognizably be a human actor in a suit-- so, no arms, no legs, no face... The initial story was an allegory for Nazi-like racism, 2 races surviving a horrible atomic war and mutating. The Doctor pretty much explained their origins in the new story, very clearly in very few words. (DAMN that's good writing!)

The Daleks became so popular, they made the show a hit, a merchandising bonanza resulted, and Terry Nation, who'd somehow got it in his contract, made a FORTUNE!!!! Ray Cusick, a BBC employee, was paid a one-time fee-- and HE's the one who came up with what they looked like. Criminal, isn't it? The BBC, meanwhile, made sure such a contract detail would NOT be repeated, so, for instance, the guys who came up with the Cybermen a few years later did NOT get filthy stinking rich like Nation did.

The 2nd season they had the nerve to try doing a big-budget feature-film-like sequel, "The Dalek Invasion of Earth", but on the same miniscule budget. The NERVE of some people! (It was originally meant to be the 1st season finale, especially as Susan left the show at its conclusion, but the first 2 stories were "held back"-- something I've seen happen in recent years with shows like KUNG FU: TLC). The 2nd season also featured "The Chase", where things got perhaps a bit too comical. The 4th season featured a 13-part serial, "The Daleks Master Plan" (never seen in the US) which depending on opinions was either a masterpiece or utter rubbish.

Nation departed for America to try to sell a Dalek tv series (which never happened) and story editor David Whitaker did the next 2 Dalek stories, "Power Of The Daleks" (which introduced the 2nd Doctor, Patrick Troughton) and "Evil of The Daleks" (which introduced the "Emperor Dalek" and supposedly killed all of them off... heh heh) Neither was ever seen in the US, though reports are Whitaker's stories were much better than Nation's.

Nation's first 2 stories were both adapted into color feature films starring Peter Cushing as "Doctor Who", a human scientist who built a time machine. (Think of it as the "Earth-2" version!) DOCTOR WHO AND THE DALEKS was a huge success in british cinemas, though it was far too jokey. DALEKS' INVASION EARTH: 2150 A.D. was a vastly superior film-- to this day, my single favorite Dalek story, in fact! --but didn't do nearly as well at the theatres, so a 3rd proposed film, an adaptation of Nation's "The Keys Of Marinus", never happened. Too bad. Can you imagine if the film series had continued? Cushing's Doctor might have one day faced his own "Master", played by Christopher Lee!

I just saw THE QUATERMASS XPERIMENT on TCM today. Much clearer print than the video I rented about 15 years back. For anyone unfamiliar with it, this is an early Hammer Film (Anthony Hinds producer, James Bernard music score, etc.), and was an adaptation of a tv sci-fi serial. It featured Brian Donlvey as Prof. Bernard Quatermass, an egotistical, short-tempered scientist in charge of Britain's space program, who's faced with a growing mystery-- and growing horror-- resulting from an early space mission in which 2 of the 3 returning astronauts have died, and the 3rd is mutating into something other than human.

This story looks a lot like an episode of THE OUTER LIMITS-- and also served as the inspiration for SEVERAL different DOCTOR WHO stories many year s later, including "Spearhead From Space", "The Ark In Space" and "Seeds Of Doom". Quatermass himself seems to have served as the inspiration for the personality of the 3rd Doctor (Jon Pertwee) whose early bad tempter often hindered his actions more than helped.

While I think most WHO fans should give the film a look, I hate to say on its own terms it's DREADFULLY dull, in a way only some old British films can be (as I once read some critic say). I wonder if the original tv production (which, presumably, no longer exists) was better?

There were, over the years, 3 sequels, and while I've never seen the 2nd film (also with Donlvey) I have seen the 3rd, FIVE MILLION YEARS TO EARTH (based on the tv serial, "Quatermass and the Pit") which itself served as the inspiration for the Pertwee WHO story, "The Daemons".

Hmmm...it sounds like the current version might be the most entertaining. I did enjoy some of the PBS reruns back in the 80s...is anyone still rerunning them in the States? Seems like a natural for SciFi Channel.

With "Father's Day", DW finally got around to doing the kind of story THE TIME TUNNEL did 40 years ago-- in its 3rd episode! (Tony finds himself in Pearl Harbor just before the attack, and meets his father, who he knows DIED in the attack!) Amazing how after so many years, this series seems fresher than ever.

It kinda hurt when The Doctor went off at Rose like Tom Baker (or Colin Baker!) on a bad day... but I could see it was called for. And he DID apologize, something I can't picture Colin's Doctor doing with such ease.

At any rate, NOW we know what Peter Davison was talking about at the beginning of "Time-Flight"!!!

Often the toughest thing about watching this show is AVOIDING the coming attractions. Unlike those for BG, with DW, I DON'T WANT TO KNOW what's coming! More fun for me if it's just as much of a surprise as possible.

Okay - silly question -

Is there a difference between the version (Season 1) of Doctor Who that's currently being shown on Sci-Fi and the British Season 1 episodes?

Such as maybe scenes being cut to make it fit to the American television schedule and such?

I'm horrified at the thought of that myself.

Back in the 80's & 90's, SHERLOCK HOLMES and POIROT were run on PBS. But reruns turned up later on A&E, and it became obvious after awhile that they were cutting the shows a bit. Not NEARLY as much as when A&E cut 8-1/2 minutes out of every AVENGERS episode, but still... When the new POIROTs are run-- on A&E-- I wonder if they're being run uncut, or butchered.

When the Jon Pertwee DOCTOR WHO episodes first made it over here, my local Channel 17 was running them. It wasn't until more than 10 years later that I got to see them again on PBS, and suddenly got to see scenes that had been CUT before by the commercial station. (Of course, some of the stories seen on PBS were in B&W, while the earlier broadcasts had been in color-- but it's the BBC we have to blame for that, actually DESTROYING original copies of shows they believed had no further commercial value (and figuring the licensing department had copies anyway-- while the licensing department also destroyed THEIR copies, figuring the originals were still in the vaults. GOVERNMENT BEAURACRACY at its worst!)

Yes. They cut around two-three minutes from each episode for adverts. There'll be a for-comparison list somewhere - on Outpost Gallifrey 's forums if nowhere else.

Or you can just head over to the thread started on Sci-Fi\'s boards about the trimming of the episodes. Outpost Gallifrey currently has their registration disabled and you have to be registered to even read the forums there.

Okay. I'll have to give that a shot.
Thanks Reboot and Scott!!!!!!

NOW, the version that's to be released in the states on July 4th - is that the British version, or the Americanized version?

The DVD set? It will be the uncut, same edition as the British version. I believe the only difference is in how it is boxed.

More and more these days, TV is becoming like radio. You're not even supposed to watch the shows on Tv anymore... with all the pop-ups, etc., what's broadcast is becoming just an advert for buying DVDs. Oy!

COOL!!!!!!
(Okay, okay, okay - I'm a geek.)

It seems bizarre that they've cut anything sicne here each episode is 45 minutes long, which is the standard length of US shows when they're shown without adverts so I would assume that they'd done it that length specifically so that it could be shown with adverts, run an hour and not have to ahve cuts.

Never underestimate the amount of advertising that cable stations will try to cram in...although SciFi is usually better than, say, SpikeTV which has eviscerated DS9 episodes to fit in more penis-hardening medicine commercials.

Actually, those commercials are courtesy of your cable provider. Just flip channels while one is on and you'll find a few stations playing them at the same time. Comcast regularly pushes its own commercials in place of a cable channel's. The ones about "Bob" and his miracle pill seems to be their favorite.

Comcast ranks just below oil companies on my most hated list. I'd pay my satellite provider another ten-twenty bucks a month just to stay away from those bloodsucking bastards.

Somehow I just had the feeling that "The Empty Child" was gonna end of a cliffhanger...!

Yeah, but it ended great!

This Doctor has grown on me. Right off the bat I could tell that the actor was good, but didn't come across as a genius to me. As you learn what's happened, you can understand why he's grown so bitter, but he still doesn't carry off the "I'm the Super Genius Doctor who knows pretty much everything" bit...

And I think he's sweet on Rose.

Not that I blame him ...

I continue to be amazed. Now, apart from everything else... It seems to me the subject of sex has come up in EVERY episode so far, a real contrast to the first 26 seasons where they often tried to pretend it didn't exist. In this one episode alone, we have one reference to gay sex, one characters who's bi, and an unwed teenage mother. Good grief! And of course, something that would have really turned Eric Saward's stomach... a story where (GASP!) nobody dies!!!!!

I've long felt there were a few characters The Doctor-- potentially-- could have gotten romantic with. I just think he's so old and often is "past that" that it might take him awhile to even think about such a thing. Sarah Jane, Romana 2, the scientist from "Kinda"... and Rose. Definitely Rose. "Why does everyone keep saying we're a couple?" she asked. Sometimes it's more obvious from the outside... I think the potential is there. As I said, in the past, any possibility of it was stifled because WHO was considered by many "a children's show". Unlike many, I happen to think people can (and even should) become friends FIRST. Otherwise, eventually you'll wind up wondering is there anything more, which is why so many couples break up-- or stay together being miserable.


Now I wonder how long this new "companion" will last?

saw the part one and two and I have found them quite pleasing and innovative. I am now from now will watch them on every Friday night.

I'm still behind--just watched the ep where Rose saves her Dad. It was a bit formulaic, but still well done. I really like how they're digging into the implications of time travel right away--it really doesn't seem like there has been the filler that dogs so many scifi series.

Re: The Doctor and Rose--I'm more interested in how a 900 year old guy relates to other beings than in getting a "big kiss" or seeing them wake up on the floor of the Tardis together. She seems so young...

With regards to the whole Doctor and sex thing (without trying to give anything away) in Season 2 there is the episode called 'School Reunion' that features Sarah-Jane (yes, *the* Sarah-Jane) which actually asks the question about how he relates to his companions and why he leaves them behind and stuff and without really going into it explains why he doesn't really become romantically involved with any of them. It's hard to really explain any more than that without taking away from the emotional punch of the episode since it is by far the best Who epsiode of the two new seasons (imho).

But yes, sex is suddenly present in the world of Doctor Who. And with regards to the new companion are you talking about Captain Jack? You're up to the 'The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances' two parter aren't you? Jack is great and is around for a while. His best scene comes with Trinny and Suzanna and a gun in one of the last few episodes. He he he.

And in the Madame de Pompadour episode, the sex thing raises its head yet again.

I wont spoil it on this thread but I might start discussing it over on the season two thread.

I agree there is a lot of good deep thought gone into some of these thorny issues which gives a pathos to the doctor I, for one, am really enjoying.

"I really like how they're digging into the implications of time travel right away"


Me, too.

After 42-1/2 YEARS (since its debut) it's about time!

Yay. Another good episode last night.

After the show wasn't on last week... I ALMOST forgot to turn it on last night! Remembered 10 minutes in. Lucky they rerun it again at Midnight.

Whatta ya know? A modern version of "Vengeance On Varos" / "The Running Man" / that OUTER LIMITS episode with Molly Ringwald. "You've GOT to be kidding!" he said. The "android" reminded me a bit of The Candy Man from THE HAPPINESS PATROL (one of my favorites) and of course off-the-wall bizarreness like this goes back at least as far as THE CELESTIAL TOYMAKER.

Having the story take place 100 years after a previous episode, and The Doctor realize what happened since was HIS fault was also reminiscent of THE ARK, a Hartnell 4-parter that felt more like 2 2-parters welded together.

All this "Bad Wolf" stuff-- I swear!-- I kept expecting FENRIC. But NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO...!!!

The ending: AAAAAAUGH!!! (Obviously your budget can look pretty limitless with CGI.) When The Doctor said "NO"-- and then got REALLY worked up-- I was reminded of Sylvester McCoy, or Colin OR Tom Baker at their most arrogant. YAY!


It's not easy going on like this without including any spoilers!

You know... I'm really, REALLY hoping somehow that "A Parting Of The Ways" is the LAST Dalek story anybody ever does on the show (unless they do flashbacks or cross over into some earlier time in their history-- but with time-travellers that doesn't seem to happen often on this show).

I'm astounded. Rose Tyler saved the universe!!!!! (And Captain Jack, too... though they didn't realize it. Oops! It's Tegan Jovanka all over again...)

LOL.

I have faith in Captain Jack's ability to get himself out of a jam.

I'm not really happy that Rose saved the universe, though. I wanted the Doctor to do it. It seems like starting with Ace, there was a tendency to make the Doctor's traveling companions Mary Sueish ...

From his debut, Chris Eccleston's Doctor reminded me of certain aspects of the 6th & 7th Doctors (and the goofiness of the 4th). But when he BACKED OFF right at the end, it was a flashback to "Genesis of the Daleks"-- or "Ressurection of the Daleks" (Baker & Davison respectively). BOTH times the Doctor COULDN'T do what was called for, and at least in Davison's case, regretted it. (I've long theorized that Davison's & Colin Baker's "flaws" led McCoy's Doctor to stop shirking his "duty" to the universe and start really "taking care of business".)

It struck me that, if the Doctor HADN'T sent Rose home, the story wound not have ended the way it did. MAYBE she could have "thrown the switch", as he was unable to do (in fact I was quite expecting it when she returned), but most likely both of them would have died, along with any survivors on Earth-- and Jack (like EVERYONE ELSE on the station-- MY GOD!!!!!) was already a goner. The ending completely blew my mind. Rose (or was it REALLY The Tardis??) did what The Doctor couldn't-- and with MUCH more precision and efficiency. If there's ANY survivors left on Earth after the bombings, it's due to "Dark Rose" (did anyone else think the visuals in the 3rd X-MEN movie were a BIT too similar to what went on here??). I was a bit let down by X3... "A Parting Of The Ways" was, very much, MORE like it!!!


Afraid I don't know who Mary Sue is, but Rose is only the 2nd "companion" since Ace (if we count the one in the movie).

While I generally dislike deus ex machina plot resolutions... It worked, more or less. I hope the Tardis saving the day doesn't become de rigeur, tho.

The first part I found a bit out-of-joint... the Daleks at the end didn't fit; not the dalek's style. But corrupted by millenia of humanity? Oh, the possibilities.

Eccleston has been nothing short of brilliant. He leaves as my favorite Doctor, actually... displacing Baker I, Pertwee and Davidson. "Always leave them wanting more" indeed!

I think the writing has been absolutely BRILLIANT on every single episode so far. It makes SO MUCH of the writing on the old show-- even the "good stuff"-- look 2nd-rate by comparison!!

That said, while I've enjoyed the 9th Doctor, it may take a long while for him to rise in the ranks as a favorite. For me, it's just the momentum of history working... usually. My top favorite Doctors are still, at the moment... McCoy, Troughton, Baker & Cushing-- in that order.

Same for the girls. Rose is fab... but somehow, she isn't hitting me the way some earlier ones have. Hmm. Gotta be chemistry or something... My top 5 girls (in chronological appearance) are Zoe, Liz, Sarah, Romana 2 & Mel. (Yeah-- Mel!)



Obviously my choices have little to do with how many episodes someone did or how many I've seen... or even what order I saw them in. Strange, but true!

I haven't seen quite every version of the Doctor, but I have found Eccleston to be a revelation. If he were a little younger, he would make an intriguing Brainiac 5. His portrayal is very smart, very arrogant and quite powerful in a physical/emotional sort of way. He is the first Doctor to have any real sex appeal, for lack of a better term. When he kissed Rose at the finale ("sounds like you need a doctor"!), it was really moving and almost sensual. I've enjoyed the confidence and physicality of Eccleston's Doctor. The new guy seems like a rather unfortunate return to the pencil-neck geek form.

Prof, I was thinking of Phoenix through the whole finale myself. I probably won't see X3 until the DVD, but I feel like my cousins across the Pond got the feel of Phoenix just about right.

It always intrigues me to see how each Doctor is "different" on the outside-- yet with similar characteristics on the inside, confirming that, yes, it's the "same" guy. Eccleston reminds me in part of Baker-- if he weren't so CONVINCINGLY stupid (with Troughton, at least, you KNEW it was an act); Colin Baker (if he were ACTUALLY in control, instead of so off-balance) and McCoy (if he were a lot younger and taller).

Many old-time fans tend to think of their first Doctor as the "real" one, and that goes all the way back to Hartnell. Whenever I think of him in the context of his later personas, it really makes me wonder, WHAT was he REALLY like, when HE was younger? Although he is, to me definitely the "original", I feel you don't really see the "real" Doctor come out until Troughton, as Hartnell is someone who's just SOOOOOOOOOOO old he's probably worn out, tired and forgotten most of what he used to know... like, for instance, how to pilot the TARDIS.


I know Peter Cushing doesn't count... but in comic-book terms, I tend to think of him as the "Earth-2" Doctor! And I liked his Susan so much better than the "real" one! (Now if only we'd had a chance to see the "Earth-2" Master... played by Christopher Lee!)

I loved that they had Captain Jack be bi. Kissing both Rose and the Doctor before heading off for war. I am sorry he got left behind.

Well, the way the new series keeps coming back to previous story threads, I wouldn't be surprised to see him again. I agree that the bi thing worked.


Agreed, although I don't recall a Mel. Baker II or McCoy? I'd add Tegan to my list, too.

He's in Torchwood (confirmed) and DW S3 (supposedly).
Both.

"Agreed, although I don't recall a Mel. Baker II or McCoy?"

Late Colin Baker and early Sylvester McCoy-- Bonnie Langford! I remember when they cast her, thinking it was the "Vanessa Williams Miss America" thing all over again... as certain factions had complained about Nicola Bryant's Peri being an example of "sexual exploitation" (big boobs and tight or revealing outfits-- yeah, and producer JNT claimed THAT wasn't intentional!). So Bonnie Langford's casting was very specifically a case of trying to make the show more-- ahem-- "wholesome". Who knew I'd fall for her when she walked onstage at a convention in New Brunswick? If you don't recall her on the show, it's not surprising... apart from her debut story, the 3rd segment of the "Trial" ("Terror of the Vervoids"-- the writers CLAIMED it was an Agatha Christie tribute, but REALLY, it was a SWIPE of Alistair MacLean's GOLDEN RENDEZVOUS), most of her stories were NOT all that well written.

Ace, who I did NOT like at all in HER debut story, wound up getting MUCH better writing than MOST of the companions over the years, growing as a character from story to story. They hadn't really done that since Verity Lambert was producer (the 1st 2 seasons).

Funny thing about Bonnie Langford... of all the people who ever appeared on WHO over the years, she has MORE fan websites dedicated to her than anyone else!

I don't recall ever seeing a full Colin Baker episode; only the Davidson regeneration; and I only saw 1 or 2 McCoys, with Ace. Lost track of the show after Davidson; the gap before CB episodes was too long, and life was too busy.

Davison's 3rd season was designed (by the violence-loving fanatic Eric Saward) to show how hopeless Davison's Doctor was in a universe growing ever more dark, dangerous & brutal. So you had "Warriors of the Deep" in which EVERYBODY died... "Ressurection of the Daleks" in which not only everybody died, but quite a few of the cast were duplicates of people who died before it ever started; "Planet of Fire" where half the story is spent with one group trying to throw another group to their deaths (and for religious reasons, for goodness' sake), and finally, Robert Holmes' Viet Nam War allegory (that's how I see it), "The Caves of Androzani", in which not only everybody dies, but so does The Doctor-- and it takes him ALL 4 EPISODES to do so! Of these, only "Caves" has grown on me in the long run. Holmes remains the show's BEST writer in my eyes-- at least, from the first 26 seasons!

After all this non-stop hell, the season finale was designed as a "break"-- much more lightweight, and with a lot of humor. But the IDIOTS who ran the show in the US decided to "hold back" the last story, "The Twin Dilemma", until a year later. Completely threw the whole rythym the season ending and the NEXT season beginning off-kilter.

Unfortunately, and I now blame both producer John Nathan-Turner AND story editor Eric Saward for this, Colin Baker's 1st full season, while having a lot of interesting ideas, suffered from a lot of half-baked writing. "Attack of the Cybermen" once again turned into a pointless BLOODBATH in its 2nd half (Saward writing under a psudonym!). "Vengeance On Varos" was an allegory about "video nasties" and violence on television. "Mark of the Rain" was a bit more "fun", but after multiple viewings it suddenly hit me writers Pip & Jane Baker neglected to include an actual PLOT!!! And then there's "Timelash", my vote for the single WORST story in DOCTOR WHO history. Everything went wrong with this one-- the story, the dialogue, the production design, the costumes, the cast, the ACTING (Paul Darrow should have been kicked out of his union for his performance in this one).

Mixed in with these were 2 MASTERPIECES. Robert Holmes' "The Two Doctors" brought back Patrick Troughton's 2nd Doctor AND his sidekick Jamie MacCrimmon; The Sontorans; introduced some curious "continuity" problems involving Troughton's Doctor working for the Time Lords' C.I.A. (Holmes had stretched the realms of the show's history before); and they got Colin OUT of that STUPID jacket for a good portion of the story. Gotta love it for that alone!

Finally, Saward's "Revelation of the Daleks" was supposedly the Dalek story he "really wanted" to write all along, which turned out to be a complex, perverse black comedy (a take-off on the film THE LOVED ONE, as it happens). He once again introduced a "noble" mercenary in the form of Orsini (William Gaunt of THE CHAMPIONS), giving one the unmistakable impression he would have RATHER been writing a show about mercenaries than about a non-violent scientist hero. Once again, Saward NEEDLESSLY kills off countless interesting characters, and shockingly, by story's end, The Doctor himself did NOTHING at all to stop the baddies other than offer irritating quips.

Colin Baker had a TON of potential, but between JNT & Eric Saward (plus that AWFUL costume-- and a companion who could NEVER stop whining) his run seems aimed purely at die-hard fans of the show, and nobody else. The comic-strips (in DOCTOR WHO MAGAZINE) at the time actually went in a completely different direction, with the focus on imagination, fantasy and humor. Oh yeah, and a talking penguin. (I wouldn't make up a thing like this...!)