Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Long Live the Legion! "Seven Pre-Approved Candidates"

Much as I miss characters like Blok and Kono and Kent Shakespeare and XS and Gates and Shikari, and so on, I've come to believe that any new version of the Legion should start with some established characters and never again introduce anything that was in a previous continuity. Okay, maybe not never, but certainly damn seldom. Because these characters just can't be hotswapped from one continuity to another; they lose something in the process and it reflects badly on the story. If you have a new version of the Legion, then make it a new version of the Legion, and not a one-buttocked rehash of an old version.

But why should it have to? What does being *white* bring to the character?

(If you are going to argue that, in 31st C Earth, race *matters* to characterization in the same way that it does today, that implies some pretty skeevy politics on the part of our favourite super-group.)

Adding some brown to the colour palette might (should!) not add anything to the individual characters, but it'd add a hell of a lot to the Legion as a whole. It's infuriating that to enjoy the story properly, I've got to accept that the face of the future's best and brightest might be best reflected on a 1950s postcard.

Even with the change to Star Boy. It's almost like WaK/DC wanted to highlight the fact that that they *could have* changed the character designs to better represent the whole of <strike>humanity</strike> their potential readership... but decided that it didn't matter. One is all it takes for appeasement, right?

Sure, they could just add new characters of other ethnicity, but they'd have to introduce an overwhelming number at this point to get the ratio anything like fair. And... nobody (including me) would care about them as much as for the core characters. And... they haven't. Even when there have been changes to the skin tone of previously white minor characters, it's been to something like *green*.

In contradiction of my post at the top of this page, I actually agree. I was temporarily caught up in a "what if..." moment, but the dialogue since has helped restore clarity (assuming it ever existed).

The next batch should be new (maybe aside from Drake and Tenzil, so recently reintro'd), and that should be the norm... maybe eventually a 1/3 or 1/4 reintro ratio could be phased in.

Right now, I'd rather see Kent or Kono in a continuation of the Lightning Legino post-Action. That seems a more appropriate place to insert them (and other late prebooters).

In my brain, various Legionnaires have always had a hint of varying ethnicities anyway. Rokk has always seemed to have a touch of Asian. Vi has also been looking more and more Asian as time goes on. Tinya's sometimes portrayed as totally white, and sometimes looks almost Indian (as in, India the country, not Native American). Val as at least partially, if not fully, Asian, fits just fine with the concept, it's not like he's portrayed as the Daniel-San white guy who knows Asian stuff (see; American Ninja, Last Samurai, any Jean-Claude movie).

About the only characters that have appeared between the introduction of Tellus, Quislet, Sensor and Magnetic Kid, and now, that I'd like to see back would be Shikari and Kid Quantum II. The Legion can always use more femmes, IMO.

But given a chance between seeing them back, and seeing even older-school characters like Laurel Kent and Nightwind and Lamprey and Crystal Kid back? Oh yeah. Off my lawn, you kids!

I tend to agree, PDG (esp. about WaK changing Thom and seemingly saying "that's enough"), but at the same time, (even race aside) a significant number of long-time LSH fans nitpick any minor change to long-established characters. If race is changed and nothing else is made of it, it seems solely like tokenism; I was merely suggesting that an appearance-only ethnic change misses opportunities: could India/Pakistani colonization/settlement of Cargg make it a culturally more distinct place than a Chinese-settle Braal? There are rich veins to be explored, IMHO.

Also, on a LSH message board I used to belong to, there was actually quite a lot of moaning before #1 came out about Thom's color-change; some was the longtimerism I mentyioned before, and some was actual racism. Making a change count (and I do not simply mean updating 70s-black-power Tyroc or any other stereotype) would, I beleive, undermine nay-sdaying and leave the racists hanging in the wind for what they are.

LSH's future in many ways seems very rooted in modern western (esp. American) culture. I merely suggest that a richer 31st century culture could bring additional values beyond simply appearance (although appearance itself would be a start).

I tend to agree, PDG (esp. about WaK changing Thom and seemingly saying "that's enough"), but at the same time, (even race aside) a significant number of long-time LSH fans nitpick any minor change to long-established characters. If race is changed and nothing else is made of it, it seems solely like tokenism; I was merely suggesting that an appearance-only ethnic change misses opportunities: could India/Pakistani colonization/settlement of Cargg make it a culturally more distinct place than a Chinese-settle Braal? There are rich veins to be explored, IMHO.

Also, on a LSH user group I used to belong to, there was actually quite a lot of moaning before #1 came out about Thom's color-change; some was the longtimer-ism I mentioned before, and some was actual racism. Making a change count (and I do not simply mean updating 70s-black-power Tyroc or any other stereotype) would, I beleive, undermine nay-saying and leave the racists hanging in the wind for what they are.

LSH's future in many ways seems very rooted in modern western (esp. American) culture. I merely suggest that a richer 31st century culture could bring additional values beyond simply appearance (although appearance itself would be a start).

I certainly hope that one of the seven pre-approved candidates is Gates, because the Legion could really use him right now!

Him or Shikari, definitely. The team is in dire need of a teleporter.

Sure, a teleporter would be useful, but instead of Gates or Shikari (or Veilmist), what about a new character, like... Cardinal, the burly aubergine-skinned teen from Lvlbwu Rrr, who can convert up to eleven Legionnaires at a time into a series of numbers that can be transmitted across the universe via any standard communications equipment?

I get the cardinal number thing, but a name like Upload, Download or Uplink might be cooler. Or, if it was the old days, Digital Dan or Tele-Pete or something.

I'm more partial to seeing what people can do with what's already present in the Legion universe than how many new characters they can whip up. Whipping up new characters is easy, I've got hundreds of 'em for various games and fics. It seems to me that was Shooter's whole rationale for not just 'unbooting' Waid's threeboot, because he didn't think it was fair to the fans for people to keep jerking them around with shiny new continuities, instead of taking on the challenge of crafting new and exciting stories for the existing continuity, and slowly adding new content organically, instead of, 'bang, everyone dies, Superboy punches reality, shiny new team / continuity, with similar names and powers, but not the same people...'

Heck, it would take minimal effort to tweak Tinya into a teleporter, allowing her to step in between spatial planes and slide along the membrane between them to another point before popping back out. Old character, new spin, and one that flows logically from her pre-existing state (much more so than, say, making her a Carggite...).

Well, my problem is this. What did everyone think of the reboot versions of Kono, Dragonmage and Wildfire, or the threeboot versions of the White Witch and Inferno?

At this point I rather get new characters! Sure I want to see some old ones...and eventually maybe ALL of them.

I too want most of them to be new characters -- creating the new is Shooter's greatest strength. Should he reintroduce characters from previous continuities, I hope it's only because he truly wants to write them and has something new to say about them.

There's nothing wrong with version-specific Legionnaires, i.e., characters who are specific to one era or continuity, and help make it unique. Not every Legionnaire can or should span multiple continuities, imo. As much as I like Gates and Shikari, I'd sooner see them back with their "native" Legion than shoehorned into another incarnation just for the sake of filling a power void. On the flip side, there's little to be gained by denying a very popular and time-tested character such as Wildfire a place on every version of the team.

Anyway, I'm not betting any of the 7 candidates gets a flight ring right away. Remember, Shooter said he's going to reintroduce the Legion Academy and Reserves. They might go there for the time being.

Whether they introduce new characters or not concerns me very little but I agree, I don't think the reintroduction of Shikari or Kinitex (whoever that was, never saw an issue during that period). I too would love to see more diversity in the Legion. It's something that has subtly bugged me since this version began. We would see a shot of the plaza outside Legion HQ filled with alien teens but somehow the "core" team remained primarily Caucasian humans with a few token human looking aliens and a token black guy. I want to see lots more diversity. So what if your favorite character is reintroduced as a person of color? It's not the same Legion it was 40 years ago. That's pretty much been established but I kind of agree with Tromium, many of those characters are better left in their own era. I would like to see some Asians, Middle eastern types, Aborigines and South Americans whatever. Preferably without the ethnic theme powers that seem prevelant every time we see super people of other lands. And more aliens, if UP space is diverse with alien life, it should be reflected in the Legion at least to some extent.

That being said, I'd really like to see the return of Tyroc. A character that really only existed for a short period of time but made a big impression and who had an interesting power that was never really explored fully. I feel the same abot Tellus and some of the lesser Academy/substitutes characters as well. And of course, it's always good to see Antenna Lad and Eyeful Ethel (now there's diversity).

Kent,

In regards to my sarcasm towards XS and Kid Quantum, I think I just did it poorly (sarcasm can be hard to voice over the internet, since you can't hear my tone, etc.).

What I was trying to get at was that it took the Legion about 40 years to actually have more than one African-American member of a team that should be more representative and reflective of a diverse and varied universal collective of human & alien races. I wasn't trying to insult XS or KQ at all, I genuinely liked them (they were strong female characters), I was trying to poke the irony that the Legion was supposed to reflect the United Planets, while 9 out of 10 members were white humanoids, and how progressive is this team of the future if it took so long to even get more than one black member...

We almost had it in the past, with Invisible Kid II and Tyroc (during V4, after Marzal had popped back into the 30th Century from their other dimension, and finally he wasn't acting like a bad 70s stereotype or as a background figure stuck on monitor duty because writers couldn't figure out good uses of his powers), but they weren't both Legionnaires at the time, just leaders of the underground resistance. Oh, and they kicked ass, btw! Go SUBS!!

I want good characters and diversity in the Legion. Being the team of the future, I think we deserve it! I guess being anal retentive and a bit of a continity cop, I'd much rather see new characters introduced than to tweak out old ones.

Hope I didn't offend you or anyone else with what I thought I was trying to say. Sometimes I think I'm pretty funny... Other times I know I am!

I want alien members and asian characters! More asians on the Legion! Bring back Dragonmage and give us a couple more. I love that KK and Vi look asian. Maybe even central asian like Indians. A Legionaire with a red dot on the forehead would rock! (i'm being serious)

I liked KK2, the stray that Timber Wolf picked up on Lythyl. I read somewhere that he picked up sonic abilities later, which would help to set him apart from the 'all asians are martial artists' cliche. (And, aside from Val, the best martial artists appear to be Lu, Shady and Brin, none of whom are even a little bit asian in appearance. I like that.)

Given what is happening in the world anyway, I wouldn't be suprised if the vast majority of Earth-descended humans (including colonists originally from earth, like Titanians), weren't asian or hispanic or middle-eastern in features.

Brown eyes, black hair and dark skin are pretty dominant traits. People who look like Imra, Garth, Nura, Jan, Projectra and Dirk would be the minorities, while 'average folk' would look more like Threeboot Vi, Val and Rokk.

A 'pure' African appearance might be almost as rare as a blonde Greek, for that matter, over the 40 generations between now and then.

Yeah, a Dominator on the team would really add some diversity!

I hoped this was your intent, but it did not come across this way; nor was I looking to take it in a poor light. I was not offended, but a bit befuddled; it seemed out of character for you (not that I can claim to know you very well) to be making the comment it seemed like. Some people get snarky about characters they don't like, but don't you dare speak ill of their sacred cows. I didn't think you were one of those; I'm glad you're not.

But as it turns out, you and I again agree. The 5YL Tyroc to me more than made up for the "blaxploitation" stereotype of the 70s.

Sarcasm can be difficult to pull off on the web. I myself have unintentionally alienated one or two people as well.

the link for #38 -

Previews only on page 1 - 5 - too bad we won't find out who are the 7 candidates ....but Giselle is intriguing.....

http://www.newsarama.com/dcnew/Jan08/previews/23rd.html

check it out. Saturn Girl and Invisible Kid are keeping their eye on the potential "candidate"...hmmm...

is Giselle the new (self-contained) Chemical King... er, Queen?

My dream seven candidates would be -

An Amazon - the Legion needs strong women!

A Tamaran - a good link to established otherworld societies.

Quislet - one of the best alien Legionnaires IMO, he'd stir things up and make us laugh at the same time - great fun to read.

Gates - joint fave alien legionnaire of previous 'boots, his powers and personality would make a great read.

A Gil'Dishpan Green Lantern - intriguing look and it'd be a great way of exploring a race we never got to see enough of. Also the introduction of a GL would make an interesting springboard into more stories set in space.

Reflecto - how would the Legionnaires take to him being foisted upon them? Would he have seen the error of his stalker ways? Would he bring another obsession with him? And is his hair actually feathers - if so it'd make a nice nod towards that other 'legion', Marvel comics Shi'ar Imperial Guard. Just a thought.

Last and most definitely not least I'd love to see a Gorilla on the team! Go Gorilla! The DC universe needs more talking apes!

What do you reckon my chances are of seeing any of them? Probably about the same as my lottery chances

What I expect to see is -

A Braalian to take Cosmic Boys place - the UP powers that be would see Cos as dangerous and with him missing right now this could be their attempt to keep him out of the group,

Several children of, or neices or nephews of UP Ambassadors who have used their parents influence to buy them a place,

One or two hard ass military types

Only a week or so until we find out!

My seven's wish list:

Bouncing Boy (From the planet I see in L.E.G.I.O.N)

Ferro Lad (No more mutant thing)

Chemical King (It's time Condo back)

Tyroc

Dawnstar

White Witch (With her sister Nura from the dead)

Andromeda (The blonde from Daxam)

I don't have more super-pets, or monsters.(Only Gates have my sympaty)

An yes ...more diversity...

Catspaw (From Africa)
Dragonmage (From China)
Kinetix (can be from Asia this time, Java or Sumatra)
Veilmist (From Argentina or a Khundian colony with hispanoamerican origins)

Ok, so we've seen them and they are all new characters. Me, I nominate Fruit Boy as new cult favorite, he just screams classic Legion to me.

Spy, Voice and M'Rissey stand out as real potentials (and the sorts who could cause some real damage, if left to fester). The Legion already has an Espionage Squad, but these three would make the beginnings of an interesting Administrative or Diplomatic arm for the Legion (taking advantage of both their powers, and their family ties).

Sonar, Sludge and Virus could also develop some potential.

Fruit Boy just seems hopeless, but looks so earnest and friendly! He's like Jed Rikane, but even *more* unlikely to ever become a Legionnaire.

Also, regarding Fruit Boy, I'm betting a 'cabowabo fruit' has a high alcohol content...