Legion World Forums LEGION COMPANION Dr. Gym'll's Cultural Rarities Batman, Detective Comics and All-Star Batman

Yeah, Court of Owls has been kind of a bust for me. The concept is good, and the issues prior to the crossover were good, but the actual execution of the crossover itself has been pretty lackluster. The first one I read was a "oh, interesting story about this Talon!"; then the next one was pretty similar; then the next one was almost the same. Basically it's 9+ done-in-ones about a different Talon. Within four weeks, it's a bit of going back to the well eight too many times.

Batman, Inc. #1 was pretty groovy. I loved how Morrison was able to bring the Bat-Cow from Tiny Titans over into the main continuity. The story seems to pick up without a hitch from before, with only the mention of Nobody to even suggest this is "New 52". Hopefully it stays that way, as I'd rather this story finish out with minimal interruption from the new universal status quo. The story's too far along now for such distractions.

Batman, Inc. #2 was basically the "Secret Origin of Talia", which will make the continuity obsessed's heads explode. O'Neil/Adams "Tales of the Demon" stuff is in, "Son of the Demon", "Death and the Maidens" and possibly "Birth of the Demon" are out. Damien was conceived while Bruce was Batman and after the infamous shirtless fight with R'as in the desert. Which means Bruce has been Batman at least 11 years (So much for that nu52 timeline).

The story itself was good and gives us insight into Morrison's take on Talia, which is decidedly more evil and ruthless than past depictions. The issue also deals with how R'as fits into all of this, and ends with Talia going full-on Leviathan.

John Layman ("Chew") comes on board as Detective writer this fall. Thoughts from those still reading Chew?

That's interesting. I've only ever read his stuff from Chew (which is excellent), so it's hard to predict how he will translate to Batman. Chew has a very comedic tone that is wrapped around a very inventive storyline. If nothing else, it's likely Layman will bring something fresh to the table.

Color me intrigued....

I'm glad to see him getting a high profile gig, and I'm hoping he won't have too much editorial interference. It really has the potential to he a lot of fun if he can bring woke of the creative vigor of Chew to Batman.

I agree with Eryk and Lardy. Hopefully editorial let's him do his thing.

Considering how 'meh' 'Tec, B&R and DK have been, ts certainly a welcome change.

Very interesting! The first thing that comes to mind is something like "Batman's Bad Night", where everything goes crazy wrong for him and he's surrounded by weirdness. Not that dressing up as a bat isn't weird to begin with....

I hope Layman has both the courage and editorial backing to tell some unconventional Batman stories. Otherwise, I don't see the point in hiring him. Sure am hoping for the best!

^

And maybe they could even let him bring a subtle bit of humor to the series. Now *that* would be refreshing.

FUCK to the YEAH!

I see from Previews that the Batman book will be featuring The Joker. I'm out - not only tired of this over-used villain, it really does kick the insane violence up a big notch. Court of Owls was something new, no lack of violence there, but they were a lot more interesting as adversaries.

Hopefully, Detective will be a worthwhile read.

I dropped Batman but did get the last issue, which was unusual. A young woman who's a whiz at electrical stuff figured out some of Batman's tricks and tried to help him out - much more her (and her brother's) story, standing up to bullies and bad guys, she's inspired by Batman. She'd be a good secondary character in the series.

Y'know. While Snyder's stuff on the DCnUCoke*** isn't bad, I've come to realize that his run on Detective pre-DCnUCoke (with Dick under the cowl...heh, that was unintentionally funny ) was much, MUCH better! This relaunch is a lot more style over substance, and it doesn't help that it's been dragging on with the Court of Owls storyline until very recently. And the pay-off was kinda wishy-washy to boot, having a major revelation but then backing off.

I think Snyder, Jock and Francavilla were absolute MAGIC on 'Tec, imo. They told moody, complex stories. Sure, there was an over-arcing plot with James Gordon, Jr., but I liked how the seperate and related bits could stand on their on. And that finale to the 'Tec run---WOW!

Capullo does admirable work on the book, but I wouldn't put it up there with my personally definitive takes on the character. If Greg gave way to Francavilla, well, I'd more than likely consider it a top book still.

I don't know if Snyder was more inspired writing Dick Grayson or not, but I haven't seen all that much in his interpretation of Bruce to make me think Bruce does it for him. That issue where Bruce is drugged, crazy and captive was something else, but really, it may as well have never happened for all the lack of consequence shown.

As it stands, I may or may not pick up individual issues of Batman from here on out, but it's not on my pull list anymore, along with the rest of the lot with the lone exception of LSH. I suspect I could easily do without or simple await the trades since the stories drag out like much of the other DCnUCoke books do.


***Props to Cobie for this one!

I totally agree with your assessment. While not bad by any means, Snyder's Batman run (and Swamp Thing run) is just not comparing with his previous run on Detective and his work on American Vampire. There is a little something lacking that is making them a bit more run of the mill.

The major problem, I believe, is the dragged out story-telling style. The scripts & plots are just not as tight. And a good indicator of that is Batman #12, which actually was a fantastic story—the best issue of the Batman run so far! Snyder delivered a tight, personal script that hit all the right beats and it was far more effective than the previous 11 issues combined.

I actually think Capullo is fantastic as an artist and I'm enjoying his artwork. I think the problem lies more on Snyder's side. Either he's not meeting Capullo's strengths or trying to play to them too much and therefore is not pushing enough of his own. Jock and Francavilla were moody and atmospheric, and it worked. Capullo is a totally different artist but he can nail those beats in his own way.

As it stands, Batman is a solid mid-tier, B-level comic book right now. It just so happens to be one of DC's best, but that isn't really saying much. But when compared to American Vampire, which Snyder writes, you're left wondering why it isn't a whole lot better?

(Psst: we know the answer is editorial).

Yeah, I dropped Batman (and am dangerously close to dropping Swamp Thing). The only Bat-title left on my list is Batman Inc., which I'm hopeful will put aside any reference to the New52 at all and just finish out the story Morrison started years ago.

Batman Inc #0 sure was pretty.

Good reviews coming in for John Layman's first issue of 'Tec....

That's because Frazier Irving is amazing.

Just read it, and yeah, that was pretty amazing. Batman, Inc. remains a consistently great read.

Love all the small character bits: Guacho's personality coming through in a few small panels; an explanation for how the Musketeer & Nightrunner interact in France; the humor of the Russian Batman; Knight being the perennial sidekick who made good (a role Wally West used to exemplify *sniff*) and of course, the awesome story for Dark Ranger.

I'm not sure this series can exist without Grant, though. It could so easily fall into the same "mediocre DC team book with little to offer" doldrums that just about all of DC's team series are in these days.

I honestly didn't like the art choice for this issue. I mean, it looks good on it's own, but to me, Frazier Irving's a horror artist, and it doesn't fit with the story that Inc #0 had.

Batman, Inc continues to be very good though I have to say I didn't really like the Damien-as-Batman-in-the-future issue. It just didn't feel very Batman like. It felt like Morrison was stealing Garth Ennis' Crossed bit for the Joker virus, and there wasn't a single likable character in the issue. I know that last part was the point but I still was left feeling the issue was lacking.

Also, it had some pretty extreme violence in it. Barbara Gordon killing a baby is just TOO MUCH for a standard Batman comic. How can DC publish this, when everyone knows 13 year olds love Batman, yet they feel the need to PG-tize Hellblazer so he doesn't say fuck or see naked body parts? There are some sick bastards in the DC offices these days.

I can't wait until death in the family is over ... the covers have been creeping me out. They are always displayed and hard to miss at my CBS.


I don't think that even in an intentionally horror comic, there needs to be ripped out teeth and ripped off faces on a cover.

Of course they are probably trying to show off how awesomely gory they are.

I call it gore porn.

I'm not a prude either! I read and enjoy Saga as i have Walking Dead and New Deadwardians and the Watchmen and the Boys ... but those had a message, a justification, a lesson, or a meaning that made sense for the violence in story.

They didn't have Batman firing off guns at Darkseid. (I can't help but laugh)

I've been enjoying Death of the Family--I like that it's far more shorter than Court of Owls, which...I don't know if I can say was necessarily decompressed, it wasn't too padded out, but I just can't help but feel it shouldn't have been eleven issues long. I also like that Snyder's Joker is very enigmatic for someone who's so hammy and seemingly speaks only in monologue--you don't know if he really knows who everyone is, if he has known this whole time, or if he's just playing an elaborate mind-game.

As for the gore...in the actual Batman book I really don't see that much over the top gore or anything so far. The grossest stuff we got so far was Joker's face moving around when Batman punched him.

Now, the last issue of Batman & Robin, on the other hand...*shudder*