Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Long Live the Legion! How much influence did Waid actually have in the early reboot (1994)?

We know, from his own words, that HE pushed The Button in 1994 as well. But how much was it him that shaped the new 30th/31st Century? Especially, who were the new characters (XS & Kinetix - I don't know if I'd include Gates, since he was seemingly intended as a one-scene joke who made enough of an impression to be brought in for real... after Waid was gone) credited to? Someone around here said XS was McCraw's, didn't they?

I was the one who pointed out that XS was Tom McCraw's creation. He took credit for her himself at the time. She was based on his character Rush, who first appeared in one of the late v.4 stories McCraw wrote shortly before Zero Hour. I suspect Waid collaborated in retooling her with a Flash origin, but I'm not certain of that.

I don't recall Waid *ever* taking credit for a new postboot character. In fact, it's clearer now than ever before that he's rather adverse to introducing new characters, though Gates (as well as rebooted Brainy) seems to reflect his own sarcastic sense of humor. As far as his overall influence goes, I recall reading that Waid wanted to begin the post-ZH with the solo exploits of the three founders, but was compelled by TPTB to add as many Legionnaires as quickly as possible. IIRC, keeping the modernized SW6 codenames (Triad, Live Wire) was editor KC Carlson's idea, though Waid seemed agreeable to them. That said, Waid and Tom Peyer *were* the lead plotters/dialoguers and therefore presumably largely responsible for the characterizations of the early postboot Legionnaires and most the situations and threats they encountered (e.g., the White Triangle) through LGS Annual #2. An exception was the "Planet Hell" story, which was said to come from an idea by Levitz.

For me, the most convincing evidence of Waid's impact is that six months of so after his departure from LSH, the storylines were already staring to deteriorate and so were the characterizations, imo. We have Stern and Peyer to thank for the debased Element Lad, watered-down Dirk Morgna, and Sneckie (though I must give them credit for Umbra). That doesn't mean I'm sold on the reboot, however. Not by a long shot. Waid has to prove himself to me all over again.

Waid admitted in the Legion Companion to only thinking of a name for the White Triangle when he had to fax the script over (or wahtever) and so jjust srcibbled the first name he could think of onto it.

It's that level of professionalism we're going to be getting.

Great.

...and yet he penned those excellent tribute stories during the countdown to Zero Hour. Yes everybody wishes hey hadn't happened and the LSH hadn't gotten shafted but still that was damned good stuff.
...No more Coleen Duran!...

It's awfully early in the process for somebody to be so upset about the upcoming book. Take a deep breath, throw a few inexpensive easily replaced Marvel merchandising items out the window and smile at something.

...and check out some of the fan art around here, some of the guys are excellent. I colored and put that old Leifield pic of Lightle's "New Kids" in a gallery somewhere. Liefield's Tellus - heh - ever seen it?

It's not early in the process if the ongoing series has been canned and alredy replaced with this crap-looking reboot.

I don't understand why everyone seems so happy about it! Will you lot buy anything so long as it has "Legion" written on the cover?

Perhaps most of us are simply trying to be optimistic until we can actually look at the book, rather than call it crap based solely on assumptions and a few scraps of preview information.

I'm sure the same thing was said by many 10 years ago when they launched YOUR reboot, CK. :rolleyes:

Some people will buy it if it has Legion on the cover. Why do you think that's so wrong? I've been through one reboot, and I guess I can handle another. As far as I'm concerned, the Legion I love most ended when Paul Levitz left, and everything since then has been interesting but not as enduring. If this reboot doesn't work for me I'll simply drop the book and enjoy my back issues. I'm not especially happy about this but I'm willing to see what happens.

Honestly, I think the reboot continuity still had plenty of potential for good stories and would be happier if it had continued. But I also don't mind the idea that we can look at DnA's last issue and say that the work is now complete and enjoy it on it's own merits. (I'm not discounting Gail's and Dan's arc, I just don't think I'll try to pin it down into any specific continuity.)

Just don't mistake guarded optimism for a ringing endorsement.

Oh for gods sake. My favourite era was the Levitz one. The reboot - lets face it - was total crap for years. The Archie era is totally unreadable and splitting the Legion into 30th and 20th century teams was ridiculous. However, things eventually came good! DnA sorted it out! Things started to look up!

I'm not sticking up for everything that happened over the last 10 years. It's just I don't see the point of going on buying the Legion if DC and the likes of Waid don't respect the work of others. What's the point of buying a book for years just to have all the continuity chucked in the bin? It's really disrespectful to the fans and previous creators.

How does it foster reader loyalty? It doesn't. So why should I bother giving this new launch "a chance" if it's likely that they'll just reboot the whole thing in another 2 to 3 years when sales don't improve?

I think it's too early to be all doom'n'gloom about the new book. Definitely.
You don't seem to get that we celebtrate Legion fandom here and facilitate it as much as we can. You should have seen the angry posts about the re-launch, I was almost as angry about DnA as you seem to be about Waid. Yet what we share here is what we see as the good parts and their triuphs.
You want angry talk to Greybird about his favorite character. You seem to really hate the old names but look around, there's an enormous thread dedicated to ME Lad fanfic, several of us use Adventure era style MB names, we don't hate them obviously.
So maybe the LSH fandom is full of 40 something fanboys, big deal, we have the financial stability to support a book as long as we want to.

Does it occur to you that this is a potential launching point for Legion spin-off books? Those X-Guys have 37 monthly books that are impossible to follow and suck to high heaven three quarters of the time. I don't like those books but you don't see me on the Marvel boards bitching about them all the time.

Yes, we'll buy just about anything with Legion on the cover, Legion in the interior, Legion crossovers, Legion guest stars and most of all Legionnaires solo. We're nuts about it in all it's forms even if there are those who see a bit more clearly and refuse to be duped by imitation Legionnaires.
If you don't like it don't buy it. How much simpler could it be?

Looks a bit amateurish to me...

Well, I personally find it much more respectful for Waid (who seems to have got the gig because DC has decided to gamble on putting a marquee name on a low-profile book to better it's chances of survival) to say that he doesn't want to work in the reboot universe than to have him come in and recast the book in his own image and throw over what the reboot-era creators did.

And I will add that your opinion of the reboot era is not the same as everyone elses. Half of what DnA did was just as half baked as what came before them. Personally I like the reboot stories straight up through the split team era that you don't.

No kidding. That's what it mostly is. Work from amateurs.

Did I say it was? Bloody hell - not everyone agress about something - lets have a reboot!

I'm wasting my time aren't I? You lot seem to be so excited that Bazza is posting that you'll ignore the fact him and his mate have totally ballsed up the title.

You have every right to protest the end of the reboot Legion, but yes, you may be wasting your time if you are trying to get others to sway their opinions on the matter. Also, you lose credibility when you make heated, nasty attacks.

Honestly I could care less if Barry posted here or not. It's nice of him to do so and he's being enough of a pro not to get involved with your attempts to goad him so good for him. And yes, you are beginning to waste your time if you expect anyone to take your comments seriously at this point.

Comet King, you're an angry little git.

I hope you spend the next 5 years realizing how ridiculous you come off bitching about things you have no control over and damning creativity before you see any actual product.

But I'd be happier if you developed the maturity to make a personal decision (like not supporting the next Legion series) without the insane, crybaby theatrics that you have displayed thus far.

Spoilsports are just spoiled sports.

Bazza?

No, you're absolutely wrong there. We have had many more Legion creators around here, not just the one. For example Steve Lightle has been an honorary LMBPer for years and checks in at LW with half assed frequency. We like it a lot. Allow the fans to interract with the artist without vehemence and angst and you just might see more than the alienation you've engendered so far. Who knows? You might read something that gets you excited about the new Legion as well.

Legion World is not a board dedicated to flame wars and troll bait.

Let's not turn this ugly, people. I'd rather we not have a flame war, either toward creators OR each other.

Feel free to disagree, but draw the line at personal attacks and name calling.

Hippy

I refuse to take your bait. I'm sure if you continue to spew your opinions with the same stink as Montezuma's Revenge, the Founders will take matters into their hands. Until and if such a time occurs, I'll just ignore your rantings.

Righty ho

Napoleon complex

lol

Like that's supposed to be a bad thing?

So true! For all his complaints about things being outdated that insult has got to beat them all! I've so got to start using it!