Roll Call
0 members (), 3 Murran Spies, and 4 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Time-Scope
Wheel of Fortune / Hangman Season 3
by Invisible Brainiac - 05/23/24 02:30 AM
Legionnaire Mastermind
by Invisible Brainiac - 05/23/24 02:29 AM
Kill This Thread LIII - There's a Joker in Here!
by Invisible Brainiac - 05/23/24 02:29 AM
The Non-Legion Comics Trivia Thread Pt 5
by thoth lad - 05/23/24 01:11 AM
The Moaning, Groaning, I just want to Vent thread
by Gaseous Lad - 05/22/24 11:39 PM
Crow! Tell us the good things going on in your life!
by Gaseous Lad - 05/22/24 11:37 PM
I'm Thinking of a DCU character Part 6!
by Chaim Mattis Keller - 05/22/24 09:43 PM
The 2nd All Avengers Thread
by Ann Hebistand - 05/22/24 04:44 PM
Omnicom
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 3 of 4 1 2 3 4
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 26 "Five Years Later"
Fat Cramer #978323 10/24/19 03:58 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 5,895
Independent Scholar
Offline
Independent Scholar
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 5,895
Originally Posted by Fat Cramer
Killing Rond wouldn't have been a big deal, apart from emphasizing the deadly tone of the story; he already died once and did any of us shed tears? I wondered if he and Mysa had a thing going and that's why he went after her instead of her Legion pals.


Ooooh! The nerve of that cad! Laurel's fully justified wrath would have had Rond pining for Mordru's comparatively benign torture. wink lol


Still "Fickles" to my friends.
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 26 "Five Years Later"
Fat Cramer #978328 10/25/19 01:02 AM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 31,485
Tempus Fugitive
Offline
Tempus Fugitive
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 31,485
Are we not confusing Rond with his brother Rand(y) Vidar
?


"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 26 "Five Years Later"
thoth lad #978329 10/25/19 03:17 AM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 5,895
Independent Scholar
Offline
Independent Scholar
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 5,895
Originally Posted by thoth lad
Are we not confusing Rond with his brother Rand(y) Vidar
?


ROTFLMAO lol


Still "Fickles" to my friends.
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 26 "Five Years Later"
Fat Cramer #978422 10/29/19 03:44 AM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 16,853
Time Trapper
OP Offline
Time Trapper
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 16,853
[Linked Image from imagizer.imageshack.com]

The Legion of Super-Heroes #4 by Keith Giffen, Al Gordon, Tom & Mary Bierbaum, art by Keith Giffen & Al Gordon, Letters Todd Klein, colours Tom McCraw

Tasmia, a nun on Talok VIII, has been replaced by Grev as Planetary Protector. Lar Gand along with an unknown voice in his head - and the voice of the Time Trapper - revives and heads to Tasmia. He has been the Trapper's puppet all along.

Lar and Tasmia seek help from Brainy on Colu, who tries to reroute the Trapper's essence out of Lar and into a safety field. The voice is revealed to the reader to be Eltro Gand, from a much earlier Legion story, who, instead of exchanging his life for Lar's, projected his soul into Lar thereby causing Lar's mental instability. The Trapper takes Lar into his reality; the blue probe lab assistant, serving the Trapper attacks Brainy and Tasmia, and is killed by Tasmia.

In the Trapper's realm, Lar learns that Trapper created him as an escape hatch and left part of himself in Lar. The Trapper not only created the pocket universe but arranged for the rise of the Legion itself by bringing R.J. Brande through time to finance it, all in order to prevent the supremacy of Mordru. If Lar eliminates the Trapper, his reality will cease to exist.

After a lengthy battle, Lar finally annihilates the Trapper and everything fades to white.

The text page explains that Lar had suffered increasingly severe mental disturbances before his death, which was largely covered up by the Legion.

Comments: Bit of a shocker, this issue, and appropriately creepy for Hallowe'en week. Mon-el possessed by Eltro and just a vessel for the Time Trapper - and taking it into his hands to end reality. Now that we know the reasons for it, it's admirable how the writers transformed the big DC lemon into something palatable.

It's a gradual, almost painful reveal throughout the story, until the full truth is told by the Trapper in one page.

The highlight is the portrayal of Mon-el: heroic, noble, powerful, determined. It may have been an easy fix, storywise, to wipe out the brooding, doubting Lar with the elimination of Eltro, but this gives us a Mon-el to be admired. Even before the Trapper zapped Eltro, Lar was exerting his true personality, as though, through death, he realized that the whining voice in his head was not his own. Or was this the Trapper's doing as well? I'd prefer to think not, since Lar established his free will fighting and killing the Trapper.

Before we get to the final doom, it's a pleasure to see Tasmia and Brainy, as well as brief glimpses of Talok VIII and Colu. That Tasmia has been immobilized with grief for five years is disappointing, but she does get right back into warrior mode, albeit a bit hastily, when attacked by the probe.

The blue probes seem to be very susceptible to hacking and eavesdropping, oddly prescient of today's Alexa et al. Moreover, it appears that only the privileged have these probes: wealthy Reep, Lord Emperor Mordru, super-scientist Brainiac 5.


Holy Cats of Egypt!
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 26 "Five Years Later"
Fat Cramer #978424 10/29/19 07:13 AM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 5,895
Independent Scholar
Offline
Independent Scholar
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 5,895
On LSH v4 Issue 4

After the headache-inducing mess that was the previous issue, the relative simplicity and directness of this one comes as something of a relief. And if I were a Mon-El fan, I'd probably pronounce it a triumph.

But I am not a Mon-El fan, I am a Tasmia Mallor fan. I found Mon's death at the end of the previous Legion volume to be a potential boon to Tasmia's checkered evolution as a character. Now was her chance to finally stop defining herself by the man in her life.

Alas, that was not to be. Instead, TMK yet again elevate yet another alpha-male into some kind of godhead, trying to explain away his past fallibilities with a ridiculous patch -- one that is wholly dependent on being aware of a mediocre Legion story from the less-than-stellar Action era.

And Tasmia? She becomes a distasteful parody of the female roles in sexually repressive 20th Century cultures which TMK appear to have nothing but the most superficial knowledge of. This is a particularly sticky point for me, because I was raised during the 80s in a "developing country" with horrible attitudes towards women. I've seen people try to excuse this portrayal of Tasmia as being from "a different culture we are not supposed to understand, only respect." I say, to hell with that! I'm from a "different culture," and it fucking stinks! Tasmia should have told the Talokian traditionalists to kiss her ass!

As for the rest of the issue, Brainy is at his Brainy-est, which is a good thing. The Giffen/Gordon/McCraw art team do a far better job with the Mon-El/Time Trapper battle that with the action sequences from previous issues. Not bad overall, considering the excruciating circumstances the issue was produced under, but not good enough to excuse the blatant paternalism which, even this early in v.4, has already taken hold.

Grade: 6 out of 10 Taryns CalorieQueen CalorieQueen CalorieQueen CalorieQueen CalorieQueen CalorieQueen


Still "Fickles" to my friends.
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 26 "Five Years Later"
Fat Cramer #978442 10/30/19 01:50 PM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 31,485
Tempus Fugitive
Offline
Tempus Fugitive
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 31,485
v4 Issue 4

It’s a very powerful cover, showing a determined, brave Mon El face what looks to be a terrible threat off cover. The accentuated clasps and buckle look really good on what I would appreciate as more of a uniform than a costume, as my Legion reading went on.

This is a more linear issue than the opening three. A few characters are drawn into events, but the Legion reforming; Mordru; Roxxas; Earthgov subplots are absent.

The main reason for this almost standalone story, is probably that the main plot points were already in place back in v3, when it was hinted at in a lettercol after Lar’s “death”

Giffen shows us a Talok landscape still divided between cities and mountains.

Tasmia Mallor continues mourning over the death of the galaxy’s most powerful hero, Mon El. Her cousin, Grev, has arrived to tell her that she is now being removed from her position as planetary champion. Tasmia is expecting the news, and she meets it with strength and understanding. The religious retreat/mourning attire makes the scene interesting visually and Giffen does well to move the figures and the conversation. There’s a familiarity to it, despite the alien setting. It might be nice to see the men be the ones having to hide their faces, in respect of the departed, once in a while though.

The Levitz era was a long one. The Tasmia seen there was strong. Her fight against Lady Memory on Talok is a favourite. But she was very much part of a Lar/Tasmia couple. The two would more often than not be with Jo & Tinya. Later, when Lar was dying, we did see the depths of her resilience and strength of purpose as she scoured the galaxy looking for a cure to his condition.

But *before* Mon El (and Brainy for two minutes), the focus was on her as planetary champion of Talok. She operated as the sole heroine for her planet and didn’t have a Legion to back her up. Her closest peer in the team, later on, was probably Tyroc in that sense.

TMK’s version of Tasmia follows on from the Levitz era logically enough. If anything, considering T&M’s love for the Adventure era, it follows it a lot more closely than the arcs of Jeckie, Thom and others.

The story in this issue has additional interest because one version of it would have seen Shadow Lass in a different place at the end.

Here, she plays a tune in solitude remembering her lost love. Only Lar has returned from the grave. Within him are the personalities of Eltro Gand and… The Time Trapper!

For some reason, the Legion decided to bury Lar naked. Giffen’s deftness with shadows counters the code!

The couple go to Brainy to find a solution to the problem of having different coloured dialogue boxes around his head.

Which raises the point, and I’ll be back to this one in a few issues, on why Cham didn’t go to Brainy *before* going to Jo. Or at least before taking on Mordru. Over confidence (as we’ll see him with in a couple of issues)?

I do like the idea behind Eltro being stuck inside Lar. It takes a previous story, doesn’t dismiss any of it, and build a new twist into the narrative. The twist, that Lar’s previous issues with his failing serum and struggles to overcome his meeting with Lady Memory etc, are in large part due to the presence of Eltro Gand as an additional personality.

Eltro also comes across as a heroic and tragic figure. He tried to save Lar’s life, only to inadvertently kill him, or so he thought. He was willing to sacrifice himself for Lar, only to become trapped with the weight of a 1000 years of isolation, all at once. This is all very well supported in the text pages.

The Trapper’s presence in Lar’s mind initially seems to be a bit more of a fudge. It’s the biological equivalent of having a chopper on the roof of you villainous HQ, for escape purposes. The entropic Trapper, in his later appearances, didn’t seem the sort of villain to have this. But the earlier Trapper, who was a more human, if very powerful villain behind the Iron Curtain of Time, did seem a bit more likely to have such a thing. And it would be an earlier Trapper who put all this into place.

I didn’t realise at the time, that Eltro’s actions had been replicated, in principle, by a second member of the Legion cast. There was a third who did use the same equipment for the same purpose too. SO, if was a concept that bothered a reader, it was going to bother them again.

In short order, Lar’s weakness to lead is gone. Eltro Gand’s personality, that the Trapper used to weaken Lar, goes shortly after it. For plot purposes, the removal of the lead weakness gives the Trapper a truly invulnerable vessel. But if Lar survives, it becomes that bit more difficult to prevent him solving everything. TMK’s solution to this is going to be an issue in stories to come.

Brainy tires to isolate the Trapper’s brain matrix, but the villain, surprised by the effectiveness of the interference transports Lar away. He does leave a parting gift. One of the probes is possessed by him, and there’s a decent fight scene where Tasmia shows her independent champion status (as her powers render Brainy incapable of helping) and she dispatches it. Without a lead, all Brainy and Tasmia can do is wait. I don’t think we get a tearful reunion scene later on, possibly due to Reboot Ripples.

As the Trapper takes Lar to the Pocket Universe, it’s worth pointing out how this was supposed to end. The Trapper would presumably take on a physical form and Lar would finally destroy the it, but would also die in the act.

It seems odd that TMK would revisit v3 #50 and Lar’s demise, just to essentially repeat the ending in a different way. It would give Lar a more heroic finale, and it would resolve the fate of one of the Legion’s biggest villains. But that fate was as final as a lot of writers would like, when the Infinite Man took the Trapper through to the rebirth of universes. They couldn’t have been *that* unhappy with Lar dying, if they were just going to kill him off again. The removal of Lar is very in keeping with Giffen’s desire to have a tougher, harder universe (something which seems to be undermined with Laurel’s appearance in a couple of issues) where there are no easy fixes.

In a book where the opening arc is to re-establish the team, why have a spotlight issue where none of those plots are progressed (Brainy working on a cure for the Ranzz kid aside)?

I’m fairly sure it wasn’t for the benefit of Tasmia who may have been able to have some closure on Lar, and move on with her own life. Putting her through Lar’s death twice seems a tough way of going about that.

In hindsight, and as much as I enjoyed it, it seems to be an odd place for the story to be and one that, in its initial version, would have added little to the ongoing book. Lar was dead and would be dead again. The Trapper had been vanquished and would be destroyed again.

As it turned out, it was a real blessing that the issue was the one being planned. Behind the scenes there had been a falling out with the Superman office. Despite the Legion’s origins being closely tied with the Superman mythos, they were asked to not put Superman references in the book.

Due to further arguments, that escalated into a mandate for *all* Superman references to be *retroactively* removed from the Legion. The Legion would not be inspired by Superboy. They wouldn’t go back to visit him. Smallville visits never happened and on and on… except that we’d seen a post crisis pocket universe and some Legionnaires had visited Byrne’s Superman. So, those events had to stay in continuity, even as so much else was jettisoned. Lar Gand would essentially take the place of Superboy.

So, in the version that’s published Lar again manages to defeat (in a very long and engaging fight scene for this volume) the physical form of the Trapper. But instead of there being some closure in our universe, all of the Trapper’s machinations are undone.

Like the destruction of Rond’s ring, it seems the only way of appeasing DC editors is to show it happening in an upcoming book. It didn’t seem that TMK had much time to find a solution. Adjusting the ending to this story, they were about to publish, was as elegant a way of resolving this as you could get.

Not only that, it allowed TMK to introduce a jaw dropping (and it’s not the only one in this volume) take on the history of the Legion. Like the Eltro subplot, it builds upon everything that has gone before, connects so much of it, and then gives a new perspective to the material. I do wonder if they already had some of these ideas, that would have formed part of the original versions finale anyway. It would at least partly explain why the story was placed so early in the volume.

Had time gone along unaltered, Mordru would have risen to power and conquered our Galaxy, setting up a long-lasting empire. The Trapper’s plan was to prevent the rise of Mordru. To do that he created a pocket universe. That universe contained the Superboy and Smallville where all the Legion adventures occurred (never mind that Karate Kid series or the Legion/JLA/JSA crossover for Pete (Ross)’s sake). He also created Lar there. We don’t see any of that in the panels here. We do get one more visual of Superboy. But the mandate means that he’s referred to as a “timeless legend of teen valor.”

Not content with his Pocket Universe work, the Trapper did peek into the “real” universe, where he moved RJ Brande through time. We’ll learn that he did this by switching him with Tinya Wazzo. This is where it really overstretches itself. The Trapper has moved through time in the past to challenge the Legion. We learn here that he keeps his sneaky machinations in another universe to avoid Mordru. Yet, now he’s openly tweaking things in Mordru’s universe. He’s never shown the need to have any kind of temporal balancing act in the past. So why the need for a Tinya/ RJ switch.

Trapper mentions one that there was one exception to his rerouting to the Pocket Universe, but that one had been punished. I’m trying to recall who that was? Rokk in his mini-series, leading into Legends? Booster Gold? Karate Kid?

We never learn why 30th century financiers are rubbish. I don’t even think it fits too well with what we do know about RJ Brande’s past on Durla. The pay offs are there for Jo’s subplot, and Phase in L.E.G.I.O.N. The later reason for Glorith’s actions using the same plot make a lot more sense. I can only think that the Trapper was influenced by a replacement timeline he could sense, but never quite see.

With his work complete, The Trapper watched the Legion grow to challenge even himself. This potted Legion history goes well with the one seen at the start of #1.

The Trapper tells Lar that if he is destroyed here, then all of his works would be undone. He would cease to have ever existed. Lar, faced with a full picture of the Trapper’s machinations does the heroic thing. He destroys the evil he faces, with faith that the heroism he knows exists, in others, will shine through, in whatever universe comes into being.

It’s a shocking, powerful, and enticing cliff-hanger. I remember really looking forward to the following issue. It’s enhanced by the massive Trapper history reveals of preceding pages.

Of course, there’s no reason whatsoever why the Trapper would be wiped form existence upon his destruction. But the scene was so gripping, I wouldn’t have noticed. The RJ Brande switch did seem a little odd at the time. It does fit in with the Trapper setting *everything* up. But will he be moving Brande’s assassins into place too? Just having set up the Pocket Universe to counter Mordru would have been sufficient. The Trapper (well, Glorith) sending Tinya back in time without a switch would have worked fine.

But that’s one of the things I’m looking to hear from Ann on in this issue. Her impressions on TMK’s work with Shadow Lass is another. It’s a real shame HWW isn’t here to share his thoughts on Lar with us.

Like the Eltro/ Lar parallel personalities, there’s multiple ways of looking at the issue. It’s a strong, linear story showcasing the Legion’s most powerful hero alone against one of their most powerful villains. It reveals a new depth to Lar’s history within the team. It also reveals a hidden history behind every story since the formation of the Legion. And it sets the stage for potentially anything to come. So, there’s no shortage of action, twists and turns.

It’s also the issue where issues behind the scenes would take a real turn for the worse. If I recall correctly, the Legion companion had two accounts on this. One suggested that the Superman office asked for references to Superman etc not be used. The other that references to Superman not be used *retrospectively*. If both are the case, then the falling out between Legion and Superman editorial escalated sharply form the initial position. The first would have seen something else in place of Devlin and Iris representing the Daily Planet. The second position changes every early appearance of the team.

Considering the long history of counterproductive editorial decisions from DC, there’s every likelihood that it took two to tango on this occasion. Based on the odd comment or two, I can’t help but wonder if the Legion’s editor contributed to it *escalating* rather than being resolved. Back in ye olde days it took someone higher up to tell the Superman and Batman offices to let their characters more fully into the JLA. The higher up at DC was a certain Mr Levitz. I can imagine that no one was particularly keen to get him involved in a book he had been so close to. In any event, Waid was gone at the end of the next issue or so. And we’d see the impact of the behind the scenes issues hit home and begin to spread.

He did leave behind a book where he’d given the creative team a lot of leeway to tell their story, while using both Legion knowledge and editorial challenges to keep things clear and relatively focused. There are going to be lots of excellent moments ahead, but the opening few issues were up there with the volume’s strongest period.


"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 26 "Five Years Later"
Ann Hebistand #978462 10/31/19 05:19 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 5,895
Independent Scholar
Offline
Independent Scholar
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 5,895
Thoth, I'm quite flattered that you showed interest in your review regarding my thoughts on my favorite female Legionnaire's portrayal in the issue under discussion.

Originally Posted by Ann Hebistand
On LSH v4 Issue 4
I found Mon's death at the end of the previous Legion volume to be a potential boon to Tasmia's checkered evolution as a character. Now was her chance to finally stop defining herself by the man in her life.

Alas, that was not to be. Instead, TMK yet again elevate yet another alpha-male into some kind of godhead, trying to explain away his past fallibilities with a ridiculous patch -- one that is wholly dependent on being aware of a mediocre Legion story from the less-than-stellar Action era.

And Tasmia? She becomes a distasteful parody of the female roles in sexually repressive 20th Century cultures which TMK appear to have nothing but the most superficial knowledge of. This is a particularly sticky point for me, because I was raised during the 80s in a "developing country" with horrible attitudes towards women. I've seen people try to excuse this portrayal of Tasmia as being from "a different culture we are not supposed to understand, only respect." I say, to hell with that! I'm from a "different culture," and it fucking stinks! Tasmia should have told the Talokian traditionalists to kiss her ass!


Still "Fickles" to my friends.
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 26 "Five Years Later"
Fat Cramer #978463 10/31/19 05:22 PM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 24,141
Not much between despair and ecstacy
Offline
Not much between despair and ecstacy
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 24,141
Originally Posted by thoth
It’s a real shame HWW isn’t here to share his thoughts on Lar with us.


Aw, shucks! smile

I'm glad to see the review threads continue. I pop in from time to time to check them out.

Here are my thoughts on #4 from four years ago. (Scroll about 2/3 down the page.) This is from Kappa's review thread of 5YL. There was an earlier 5YL review thread, started by Sketch Lad, I believe, but I couldn't find it through the search feature.


Check out my new Power Club website!

The Semi-Great Gildersleeve - writing, super-heroes, and this 'n' that
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 26 "Five Years Later"
Fat Cramer #978470 11/01/19 04:06 AM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 16,853
Time Trapper
OP Offline
Time Trapper
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 16,853
Originally Posted by Ann
But I am not a Mon-El fan, I am a Tasmia Mallor fan. I found Mon's death at the end of the previous Legion volume to be a potential boon to Tasmia's checkered evolution as a character. Now was her chance to finally stop defining herself by the man in her life.

Alas, that was not to be. Instead, TMK yet again elevate yet another alpha-male into some kind of godhead, trying to explain away his past fallibilities with a ridiculous patch -- one that is wholly dependent on being aware of a mediocre Legion story from the less-than-stellar Action era.

And Tasmia? She becomes a distasteful parody of the female roles in sexually repressive 20th Century cultures which TMK appear to have nothing but the most superficial knowledge of. This is a particularly sticky point for me, because I was raised during the 80s in a "developing country" with horrible attitudes towards women. I've seen people try to excuse this portrayal of Tasmia as being from "a different culture we are not supposed to understand, only respect." I say, to hell with that! I'm from a "different culture," and it fucking stinks! Tasmia should have told the Talokian traditionalists to kiss her ass!


Agree, although I don't feel as strongly about it as you do. The marriage finger-chopping thing was creepy (although not unknown in some Earth societies), worse because it was just her. We'll see if Lady Memory loses a digit; I don't recall. It's not clear to me that her obsession with Lar is a Talokian thing or just a quirky personality thing that was laid on her character. As thoth wrote, why is it only the women who cover their faces? At least she didn't throw herself on a funeral pyre (even if she came out of it as Mother of Dragons).

Originally Posted by thoth
But *before* Mon El (and Brainy for two minutes), the focus was on her as planetary champion of Talok. She operated as the sole heroine for her planet and didn’t have a Legion to back her up. Her closest peer in the team, later on, was probably Tyroc in that sense.


Good point on the Tyroc & Tasmia as world protectors. IIRC, Tasmia and Tyroc were shown to be friends and support one another back in the Conway (?) era, but it wasn't developed on the basis of them having similar roles.

Quote
The Trapper’s presence in Lar’s mind initially seems to be a bit more of a fudge. It’s the biological equivalent of having a chopper on the roof of you villainous HQ, for escape purposes. The entropic Trapper, in his later appearances, didn’t seem the sort of villain to have this. But the earlier Trapper, who was a more human, if very powerful villain behind the Iron Curtain of Time, did seem a bit more likely to have such a thing. And it would be an earlier Trapper who put all this into place.


The whole Trapper/entropy thing is confusing. If it was a more human version that planted a spark of himself in Lar, maybe that could explain his defeat.

Quote
Trapper mentions one that there was one exception to his rerouting to the Pocket Universe, but that one had been punished. I’m trying to recall who that was? Rokk in his mini-series, leading into Legends? Booster Gold? Karate Kid?

We never learn why 30th century financiers are rubbish. I don’t even think it fits too well with what we do know about RJ Brande’s past on Durla. The pay offs are there for Jo’s subplot, and Phase in L.E.G.I.O.N. The later reason for Glorith’s actions using the same plot make a lot more sense. I can only think that the Trapper was influenced by a replacement timeline he could sense, but never quite see.


Good question (no answers - I thought maybe Jo, but don't remember if that was the Glorith-Trapper's work). The idea of Trapper partially sensing other timelines is very interesting.

Quote
Like the Eltro/ Lar parallel personalities, there’s multiple ways of looking at the issue. It’s a strong, linear story showcasing the Legion’s most powerful hero alone against one of their most powerful villains. It reveals a new depth to Lar’s history within the team. It also reveals a hidden history behind every story since the formation of the Legion. And it sets the stage for potentially anything to come. So, there’s no shortage of action, twists and turns.


Idea for an exercise: go back to the beginning and re-interpret every Legion story in the light of this revelation. Maybe it would even work for all the post 5YL versions: the Trapper could still be out there. Like on The Good Place, he keeps trying new experiments with the same characters.


HWW: great to see you teleport in from time to time! And good points in your linked post about this issue redeeming Mon-el's "forgotten" death. He does get a marker stone on Shangalla, but we as readers don't have any sense of the Legion mourning his passing.


Holy Cats of Egypt!
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 26 "Five Years Later"
Fat Cramer #978510 11/05/19 05:04 AM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 16,853
Time Trapper
OP Offline
Time Trapper
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 16,853
[Linked Image from imagizer.imageshack.com]

The Legion of Super-Heroes #5 by Keith Giffen, Al Gordon, Tom & Mary Bierbaum, art by Keith Giffen & Al Gordon, Letters Todd Klein, colours Tom McCraw

The Players:
Mordru, Lord Emperor of Earth and beyond
Glorith, power-hungry First Wife
Mano, Spymaster and Enforcer

Rond Vidar, monk who studies legends and old scrolls which point to an alternate world in which Mordru did not rule
Mysa, Mordru's concubine, working with the Resistance, relating tales told to her by Mordru about this alternate world
Andrew Nolan, member of the Resistance, go-between for Rond and Mysa

The Plot: The people of Earth, under Mordru's despotic rule, live in medieval servitude while Mordru's court employs advanced technology to spy on them and suppress resistance. The story takes place during one "Free Day", with lengthened curfew and no executions.

After Mysa supplies the key tale about how Mordru's rise was prevented by a puppet-master who created a band of heroes financed by a Durlan, Rond Vidar tries to perform a ritual to restore this puppet-master and end Mordru's rule. This involves a mind-link to Mordru provided by Mysa as Mordru sleeps. Rond fails, but learns of the alternate time-line. Glorith has been spying on Rond and demands that she perform the ritual. It is a fatal spell and, as she dies, a 20th century Durlan is replaced by 30th century Phantom Girl; Mordru awakes to sudden realization of what is happening and all fades to white.

Comments: One of my all-time favourite issues of any comic. It's a self-contained story in a one-shot universe, with elements of fantasy, intrigue and horror but carries even more meaning if you're a Legion fan. This is what the universe became after Mon-el destroyed the Time Trapper; the reader is left wondering what could possibly come next as this universe fades to white.

I love the symmetry of this story. Three characters of power versus three resisters, each mirroring the opposite: the one with knowledge, the woman with mind-sight (Glorith's comes via the spy network) and the muscle. The three also more loosely mirror the Legion founders, if one considers Rokk as the historian, Imra as the mind-reader and Garth as the man of action. The powerful represent the great Legion villains to some degree as well: Mordru as himself, Glorith as the Time Trapper and Mano representing the Fatal Five.

If you know your Legion history, you recognize Mordru's tale as recounted by Mysa as the Sun-Eater story. Rond's suspicion that Mordru might be toying with them is more viable since that was the story of the original/alternate Andrew Nolan. I'd be surprised if many readers initially recognized Glorith, a one-issue character resurrected from the distant Adventure era. There's a brief mention of Lallor and Winathian-clan resistance fighters, a hint that other alternate Legion personalities exist. As Lar said in the previous issue, somebody somewhere will rise up to take the Legion's place.

Mordru is only seen in two panels at the end, but his brutal presence is felt throughout the story. It's curious that he permits Christianity - perhaps it's the state religion - although it may be the writers' choice to present this as a means of control, a myth in itself, or one may imagine that Mordru has reworked the religion to suit his purposes and we only see the visual trappings.



Holy Cats of Egypt!
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 26 "Five Years Later"
Fat Cramer #978513 11/05/19 09:47 AM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 5,895
Independent Scholar
Offline
Independent Scholar
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 5,895
Going to be late to the Re-Reads party this week -- busy-busy -- but I wanted to thank Cramey for her especially beautiful and passionate lead review of LSH v.4 issue #5. In brief, I myself like the issue -- I think it's the best one of v.4 since the first -- because Elseworlds-type stories are like Scooby Snacks to me. But Cramey's review has really rekindled my enthusiasm for the Re-Reads, which was starting to wane due to a variety of factors, but mainly because issues 6 through 10 are going to be a slog for me (you all have been forewarned! wink lol )

But for the moment, let's keep bringing the love for this stand-alone gem of an issue. love


Still "Fickles" to my friends.
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 26 "Five Years Later"
Fat Cramer #978549 11/06/19 06:31 PM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 31,485
Tempus Fugitive
Offline
Tempus Fugitive
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 31,485
v4 Issue 5

The Legion of Superheroes: The adventures of superpowered teenagers in the bright, optimistic far future.

That description contains some of the commonly held strengths of the Legion as a group. I’d say that’s up for some reappraisal. This issue contains the bleak, desperate gambit of an oppressed group in a grim future, ruled by a near-omnipotent tyrant.

Despite the new surroundings, it’s the strengths of the Legion that make this a powerful issue. Strengths we’ve been reminded of previously in this volume.

From the premise of this entire volume from the cover of #1: that heroism shines all the brighter in the darkest of times.

From Lydda’s comment in #2: “People do crazy things for lots of reasons, Loomis. Principle, honor, friendship…love.”

From Lar’s words to the villainous Trapper in #4: ”But somehow, somewhere, somebody else will rise up and take our places”

The stakes were often very high in the Legion tales of the Adventure era. The youngsters dealt with them with almost idealistic, earnest heroism. That’s the era T&M liked best, and I think the principles that underpin those classic Legion stories can be seen throughout this volume, and definitely in this issue.

“Anyone who fights Modru because they think they can win is a fool,” says Andrew Nolan. “You fight Mordru because you have to.”

While I’ve criticised the lack of later involvement of certain characters such as Rond and Erin, because their reprieves didn’t fit with the plots already planned, this issue shows the creative flexibility of TMK.

The issue follows the editorial dust up that resulted in Superboy having to be retroactively removed from the title. The Legion’s editor was on his way out (presumably not unrelated to the Super-office incident). Yet, they manage to craft a story that leads seamlessly from one Legion-verse to the next.

DC had years to prepare for the first Crisis, yet it contains giant plot holes. They have, with the odd exception, utterly failed to produce Event comics of even a decent standard, despite the level of resource thrown at them over long lead times to achieve similar goals.

Again, reversing a criticism of Rond. He’s used here, having been slated to die in #3. More than used, he’s a pivotal figure in the unlikely trio of Vidar, Glorith and Mysa. Those with connections to Universo, the Time Trapper and Mordru are the ones offering resistance closest to Mordru’s throne world. Andrew Nolan provides a truer heroism, fighting for his family, his children’s futures and his beliefs. Elsewhere, there is a reference to a Winathian clan of lightning wielders and the rebels of Lallor. Closer to home, and the resitance is a bit more fragmented. We see Brek Bannin on page 2, and references to lost colleagues in Jacques (Foccart), Douglas (Nolan), Celeste (Rockfish, who’ll we’ll meet later) and Foxmoor (a TMK fixer creation).

The Time Trapper’s words, before his destruction, have come true. Without his creations, Mordru has indeed risen to rule the galaxy. The opening parchment page is a sharp contrast, and excellent twist, of the Omnicom entries from previous issues.

Executions, tyranny, feudalistic class structures shape this new reality. The oppressiveness of Mordru’s reign hangs heavy on every panel of this issue. It’s one of magic, but allowed only for (but not only accessible to) First Citizens. There is science. Mordru rules a galaxy. There are shuttlecraft and technological torture devices. Science used by the ruling class, combined with their magic to maintain an iron grip.

Mordru invaded and took over this galaxy, as per the Adventure stories. In addition to knowing what we’ve lost prior to Lar Gand’s final punch of last issue, there’s the loss felt by those in this altered universe. They’ve had their technological utopia taken from them. Nolan comments that it’s been seventeen years since Mordru rose to power, as he goes to meet a contact with vital information: Mysa.

This isn’t the White Witch version of Mysa. It’s what she looked like prior to becoming The Hag, and once freed form that look. It also foreshadows her look, and role, once we return to the main storyline next issue. Mordru is a continuing presence across each of the universes in #3, #5 & #6.
At the end of v3, Mysa told Querl that her deduction to defeat the Archmage was down to her faith. Here, here faith is equally important as she hopes to defeat the more successful Mordru. He feelings are reinforced to the reader by meeting Nolan in a church.

Mordru’s hubris is his undoing. He is so powerful, that he can perceive the timeline that never was, or rather he’s aware of a tampering that occurred and was lost. He tells tales of it to Mysa.

“In a time that never was, of freedoms that didn’t die,” as she relates to Nolan.

She tells him of the Knights of the Thirty defeating the Suneater; Nolan’s own death in another timeline. Coming so close to the end of v3, and with Mysa’s faith being key, I thought that the sign of the jewel that the Legion united under was linked to Amethyst, through the sorcerers world. Something else else that was destroyed at the end of v3. The knight at the bottom right looks a lot like this volume’s version of Dirk.

This information, and that of the puppet master (Trapper) and great financier (Brande) are passed from Mysa to Nolan and then to Vidar. It’s word of mouth only, because being caught with seditious writings is a death sentence. Their activities, reinforced by the church setting, are reminiscent of underground religious movements evading persecution.

The flurry of applause for this issue, increases in intensity, at TMK’s use of Glorith. There are discussions to be had later on how effective she turned out to be. But thinking of her as an alternate Trapper, considering the time they had available is very impressive. She aligned herself with the Trapper in the last universe, and is shown here aligned to Mordru, with designs of her own. A one shot character from the Adventure days given so much more depth and potential.

There’s a lovely touch here as she draws two parallel lines in the snow. We’ll see Rond do this later, indicating the two timelines that are central to the story. It’s also an early sign that she already knows everything Rond is trying to figure out.

Another character to have managed to align himself with the powers that be in any universe is Mano. He still looks threatening without the helmet on, and he still spends his time fighting the equivalent of Legionnaires.

Rond reasoning out the stories he’s heard form Mysa allows TMK to provide some background to what’s going on. Modru destined to rule, but opposed by the machinations of the Time Trapper. With the Trapper gone, Mordru rises unchecked, but aware that meddling has taken place. No mini series required DC. Just a man with a stick in the snow in a page.

Glorith’s interest in ROnd extends to those in contact with him. Her officers are tracking back through their network from him, to Nolan to Mysa. Glorith learns of Rond’s plan to tap Mordru’s mind using Mysa. There, he will learn what he needs to hopefully topple the emperor.

The magic in this issue is a far cry from the super magic in most DC comics. Here, there are rituals, fasting and bloodletting. Glorith gives Rond some mystical help to survive making the mind link. We get a snapshot of Mordru’s history. Well, his history once it was linked with Amethyst. I much preferred old school romper suit wearing galactic warlord Mordru. But TMK can only play with the continuity they have at their disposal. No doubt Waid would have fallen out with the Doctor Fate and Amethyst office at DC, if they’d tried something else. smile

The interesting thing is that Mordru is driven by fear as well as hate. It could be the dear of entombment, but is more likely the loss of power tied to his ego. We’ll see later that the more power he got, the larger his ego and therefore the more drastic the steps his fear of losing it would make him take. Credit to TMK for looking into the motivations of the villains as well as the heroes in the volume. We’d already seen that with Mekt too.

There’s a real sense of escalation in this story. Rond’s success will alert Mordru when he awakens. They only have the rest of the night to complete their plans. Mano knows that Glorith is up to something. He makes a bit of a leap, but latches onto Mysa as the key. That forces the hand of Nolan, leading up to a final encounter.

Vidar and Glorith have only hours to create a ritual that replaces the timeline in which they live. The short timescale is possibly a TMK nod to the speed in which they had to come up with the plot.

Glorith reveals her plans, and they are in keeping with her ambition from her Adventure appearance. Their only chance is to replace the Time Trapper. To restore the missing pieces that formed the Legion that would counter Mordru. She wishes to become that replacement. Rond’s not exactly in a position to refuse.

Rond’s role in the story isn’t clearly defined. He may be a church scholar of some significance. Someone who has access to the records, and who also has ties with the court. He also reminds me of a mediaeval alchemist. Part proto scientist and part mystic. It’s a shame that none of these aspects of Rond transferred into the universe to come. I think it would have added a lot more depth to the character. A more mystical/scholar Rond would have been a nice counterpoint to Brainy’s scientific approach. He would have been the middle ground between Brainy and Mysa. Then there’s the Laurel Gand triangle too.

Rond’s place in the story is not only fitting as he was in an earlier issue. An issue where he was also connected to Mordru and Mysa. But he, like Glorith, is here because of his connection to time travel. Like his father, Rond had a lot of knowledge in this area for reasons that were never fully explained. We know that he survived his father’s attack. But originally, it wasn’t because he was a Green Lantern. I like to think that the original reason was connected to his knowledge of time. I think he considered being the replacement Trapper himself in this story, which would fit with his time travel knowledge form the previous universe. But knowing the cost, perhaps he’s set up the pieces so that Glorith gets the pain of the ritual, while he ensures that part of his place in the universe to come will be to effectively counter her.

Giffen gets to save some time on page 20, with the repeated panels. But to get the same effect of Rond’s tension, and the passage of time, as he waits for Glorith to complete the ritual, wouldn’t really have worked in too many other ways. Glorith writes the symbols of change in her own blood. They stand out in the snow through which she had drawn the two timelines earlier in the issue.

They aren’t creating a universe from nothing. They only need to reshape the pieces around the formation of the force that countered Mordru: The Legion. The fit must be precise, we are told, yet replacements must be made from what they know. A source of inspiration would be replaced. This would be Lar Gand replacing Superboy. This ritual would bind Glorith and Lar together in a way that didn’t exist with the Trapper. Lar’s daxamite strength would be restored, but this is also a hint to the arrival of another character. I think the text, had they thought that Super-office wouldn’t be looking over it, would have said “Kryptonian” strength. That would have told us that Superboy *and* Supergirl were being replaced (or in the latter case restored). Finally, Brande would be delivered.

We’re told that many of the original pieces would be lost. TMK actually kept pretty much everything they could that had gone before. Along with the anticipation of what new worlds would come in the next issue, I imagine there was some apprehension at the extent of the changes following that bit of dialogue.

As Glorith realises that she’s dying as part of the ritual, outsmarted by the man she was toying with, Nolan makes a desperate bid to stop Mano attacking Mysa. The spell is completed as Mordru awakes. The Emperor may have a moment of fear and rage as the universe in which he rules fades out in a repeat of the white out as Lar destroyed the Trapper.

Although his power and presence was palpable throughout the issue, we only see Mordu’s eye for a moment when he wakes. You get a really idea for just how powerful he is at that moment. It’s just as well, he’s a sound sleeper. There’s a feeling that the machinations of his courtiers and a petty resistance have been beneath him until it was too late. Rond wonders if the whole thing was just a game of Mordru’s. That the emperor was just toying with them in the same way as he does with Mysa and Glorith. Yet, he tells Glorith and Mysa of the other timeline and Mano isn’t fighting pockets of Legion-type resistance for the sake of it. Mordru’s fears are evident throughout, even as he hold the galaxy in a stranglehold.

If the Mordru of this universe knew about the other timeline, perhaps some of the issues with the less powerful Mordru, before and after it, stem form the vague knowledge that he really was destined to rule everything. In all of these, he’s trapped by his power as much as when he was entombed.

The issue added a lot of scope and power to the volume. We’ve now seen the beginnings of the Legion’s return and a conspiracy to prevent that happening. There have been very final battles against The Time Trapper and an alternate timeline Mordru reminiscent of the Adventure days, with the backdrop that the Legion itself are only part of a much larger canvas.


"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 26 "Five Years Later"
Fat Cramer #978608 11/08/19 12:44 PM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 16,853
Time Trapper
OP Offline
Time Trapper
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 16,853
Fine review, thoth, bringing in the many external factors that went into the making of this issue.

Quote
There's a lovely touch here as she draws two parallel lines in the snow. We'll see Rond do this later, indicating the two timelines that are central to the story. It's also an early sign that she already knows everything Rond is trying to figure out.


Yow! Missed that beautiful foreshadowing/suggestion that Glorith knows what's going on, or most of it.

Quote
No mini series required DC. Just a man with a stick in the snow in a page.


Too true!

Quote
The magic in this issue is a far cry from the super magic in most DC comics. Here, there are rituals, fasting and bloodletting.


Good point. Apart from avoiding other editors screams of anguish, it reinforces the otherness of this alternate timeline.

Quote
The interesting thing is that Mordru is driven by fear as well as hate. It could be the dear of entombment, but is more likely the loss of power tied to his ego. We'll see later that the more power he got, the larger his ego and therefore the more drastic the steps his fear of losing it would make him take. Credit to TMK for looking into the motivations of the villains as well as the heroes in the volume. We'd already seen that with Mekt too.


It does step up the quality of the story. Villains aren't out to conquer the galaxy because it's there - and so far the bad guys have different motivations.

Quote
Rond's role in the story isn't clearly defined. He may be a church scholar of some significance. Someone who has access to the records, and who also has ties with the court. He also reminds me of a mediaeval alchemist. Part proto scientist and part mystic. It's a shame that none of these aspects of Rond transferred into the universe to come. I think it would have added a lot more depth to the character. A more mystical/scholar Rond would have been a nice counterpoint to Brainy's scientific approach. He would have been the middle ground between Brainy and Mysa. Then there's the Laurel Gand triangle too.


Like this idea of Rond as scientist mystic, too bad it wasn't developed that way.

Quote
Rond's place in the story is not only fitting as he was in an earlier issue. An issue where he was also connected to Mordru and Mysa. But he, like Glorith, is here because of his connection to time travel. Like his father, Rond had a lot of knowledge in this area for reasons that were never fully explained.


When I read this paragraph, the bell went off and rang "Universo" - the other major Legion villain represented in this story by a proxy.


Holy Cats of Egypt!
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 26 "Five Years Later"
Fat Cramer #978694 11/11/19 05:46 PM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 31,485
Tempus Fugitive
Offline
Tempus Fugitive
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 31,485
Originally Posted by Cramer
Now that we know the reasons for it, it's admirable how the writers transformed the big DC lemon into something palatable.


nod It would have been a powerful story, even without the lemonade making. Knowing the reasons for the changed ending and their handling of the repercussions makes me a very impressed reader.

Originally Posted by Cramer
It's a gradual, almost painful reveal throughout the story, until the full truth is told by the Trapper in one page.


TMK don’t hang about, even in the big reveals. I had wondered if there was going to be a disconnect in rereading this volume and the new Bendis reboot, softboot, reimagining. It’s something I’ve felt when I’ve picked up a mainstream hero title after reading a number of the TMK run. Mainly that it takes a few minutes to read them, compared to a fair bit more for a TMK issue.

Originally Posted by Cramer
The highlight is the portrayal of Mon-el: heroic, noble, powerful, determined. It may have been an easy fix, storywise, to wipe out the brooding, doubting Lar with the elimination of Eltro, but this gives us a Mon-el to be admired. Even before the Trapper zapped Eltro, Lar was exerting his true personality, as though, through death, he realized that the whining voice in his head was not his own. Or was this the Trapper's doing as well? I'd prefer to think not, since Lar established his free will fighting and killing the Trapper.


I’d like to think of it as Lar’s heroism shining through. This Trapper reveal, is very much a Post Crisis/ Superman reboot conceit. Lar was now created in the same pocket universe as Kal, in order to be Superboy’s big brother I guess.

In this version, the Trapper could have technically made Lar at any point in time, have him meet Superboy and whisk him off to the 30th century with some implanted idea that he had been in a Phantom Zone for 1000 years. But I think that TMK did well in showing the Lar from the Adventure days, with the Trapper using him as a vessel, being n escape hatch rather than an ongoing influence.

Originally Posted by Cramer
Before we get to the final doom, it's a pleasure to see Tasmia and Brainy, as well as brief glimpses of Talok VIII and Colu. That Tasmia has been immobilized with grief for five years is disappointing, but she does get right back into warrior mode, albeit a bit hastily, when attacked by the probe.


I was quite happy to see both of them. More so Brainy, as even then Tasmia was pretty much a supporting part of the Lar Gand story. Her action scene made up for it a bit, as did her frustration.

Originally Posted by Cramer
The blue probes seem to be very susceptible to hacking and eavesdropping, oddly prescient of today's Alexa et al. Moreover, it appears that only the privileged have these probes: wealthy Reep, Lord Emperor Mordru, super-scientist Brainiac 5.


Not great, when you have mouths to feed in the middle of a galactic recession. So glad Brande Ind. Is back in the black for you there, Reep. Something else to keep in mind when the Dark Circle starts being mentioned more.

Originally Posted by Ann
But I am not a Mon-El fan, I am a Tasmia Mallor fan. I found Mon's death at the end of the previous Legion volume to be a potential boon to Tasmia's checkered evolution as a character. Now was her chance to finally stop defining herself by the man in her life.

Alas, that was not to be. Instead, TMK yet again elevate yet another alpha-male into some kind of godhead, trying to explain away his past fallibilities with a ridiculous patch -- one that is wholly dependent on being aware of a mediocre Legion story from the less-than-stellar Action era.



I can’t argue with any of that. I enjoyed TMK’s use of past continuity to create a story with a wide ranging impact. But I agree that the story had very little to do with Tasmia. I do think TMK could look to the Levitz run for their cues, and that there is a through line from Tasmia there, to the one here. But if TMK were as beholden to the Adventure characters as they’d like us to think, then there was a lot more to Tasmia’s personality that they could just as easily gone with in the 5YG. It would seem that Lar was the big favourite, while Tasmia was clearly secondary to that. They had favourites within their favourite era.

The story itself was essentially unnecessary as originally conceived, unless they had an idea about the Trapper as far back as Lar’s death in v3. The removal of his vulnerability to lead makes him a powerhouse. I’m not sure if it survived in the post-Mordruverse. But there, even more so, Tasmia becomes a bolt on for Lar’s dreams of exploring space. Tasmia goes with him, because… well, there’s not many reasons I can think of that don’t give an “Ugh” response really. I couldn’t have put my finger on it as well as you, Ann, but yeah, there’s an alpha male dream fixation going on between TB (and others?) concerning Lar. And it doesn’t get any better.

Originally Posted by Ann
And Tasmia? She becomes a distasteful parody of the female roles in sexually repressive 20th Century cultures which TMK appear to have nothing but the most superficial knowledge of. This is a particularly sticky point for me, because I was raised during the 80s in a "developing country" with horrible attitudes towards women. I've seen people try to excuse this portrayal of Tasmia as being from "a different culture we are not supposed to understand, only respect." I say, to hell with that! I'm from a "different culture," and it fucking stinks! Tasmia should have told the Talokian traditionalists to kiss her ass!


Thanks for sharing your views here Ann. Honestly, when I first read the issue, I was struck at the visuals of Talokian society. That was on a superficial, “well, this has a different feel and texture to practically all other mainstream hero books.” The extent of Tasmia’s grief for Lar also made an impact, as well as her capability as a hero, taking care of the possessed probe. It’s only with some age and experience that the pennies slowly dropped into place regarding the context of these scenes and what they meant to Tasmia being part of a society that holds them. That’s not to say I’m capturing everything about them now. There’s always more to learn, and your thoughts are a big help there.

Originally Posted by Ann
Not bad overall, considering the excruciating circumstances the issue was produced under, but not good enough to excuse the blatant paternalism which, even this early in v.4, has already taken hold.


There was a little spark of “surely, that’s an overreaction” but I didn’t even get to form the sentence in full before I remembered Imra and Lydda pushed out of the plot through pregnancy. Lar flying off into space to fulfil *his* dreams. New improved, completely invulnerable Lar at that. Rokk as leader, plucked from an era 20 odd years out of date and seen through the heavy filters of TMK. Although there are some external factors, we’ll see just how much the character actually does in that position going forward. Roxxas does more to get the team back together, and I think Cham got the names mixed up back in issue #1 about who to contact. smile

Had Giffen taken the Moore approach to Legion v4, as well as the Gibbons approach, you’d find out that the Dominator behind Circe was really Reep all along. smile

Who knew more about the Dominion’s yearning for Earth than the son of a guy who was around during the 20th century Invasion? Who was good friends with a guy who pilfered artefacts from that era? Step forward Mr Daggle.

This might be one of those times where my first half-thought doesn’t last long in front of the evidence. smile

I’ll distract myself with my favourite non-paternalistic show, Brainy Knows Best… oh heck… smile That said, comics as a medium, and super hero comics in particular were geared along those lines. Fans of those books might one day end up writing them and continue that outlook.

As of the end of #5 none of the Talokian mourning scenes happened in continuity. Glorith replaces the Trapper. Mon-El is injured but doesn’t die and he, now the Legend that helped humanity reach the stars (don’t groan too much), goes off to explore the stars. Needless to say, Tasmia goes along too.


"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 26 "Five Years Later"
Fat Cramer #978702 11/12/19 07:34 AM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 16,853
Time Trapper
OP Offline
Time Trapper
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 16,853
[Linked Image from imagizer.imageshack.com]

The Legion of Super-Heroes #6 by Keith Giffen, Al Gordon, Tom & Mary Bierbaum, art by Keith Giffen & Al Gordon, Letters Todd Klein, colours Tom McCraw

Dirk Morgna, on behalf of Earthgov, hires investigator Celeste Rockfish to find Roxxas. Celeste, partner Bounty and reporter Devlin O'Ryan head to Trom and are found by caretaker Jan Arrah.

Circe spies on Dirk and assures a Dominator that Celeste will distract suspicion about Earthgov's involvement with Roxxas.

Roxxas murders some high-end shop-keepers and customers on Korr.

Cham, Rokk, Jo, Kono and Furball arrive on Tharn to rescue Mysa. Mordru, who has been monitoring them, forces them to relive their worst experience. Mysa is forced to share their anguish. We learn that Furball is really Brin Londo, whose body was affected by radiation during Black Dawn.

Laurel Gand heads to Tharn to rescue Rond and her five teammates.

The text pieces supply some fill-in history for this issue. Mordru was legitimately appointed as leader and his powers restored by the Sorcerers to fend off a Khund attack. Lar Gand did not die, but was severely injured in a fight with Glorith.

Comments:
This is a new timeline. How much is different? We're not certain. Rokk is aware that his nightmare doesn't reflect reality, but we don't know how much of the others' experiences are distorted. There are new characters - Celeste, Bounty and Devlin - but they appear to have had nothing to do with the Legion. Then there's Laurel Gand, a new face to the reader, but someone with a Legion history and looking like a hyper-sexy Supergirl. She's going to rescue Rond and "five more of my old teammates". I'm not sure if that's an editorial goof, since even in this version, Kono was not a Legionnaire and was unknown to Cham.

There's a lot of snoopy eavesdropping; both Mordru and Circe seem to be able to monitor people, but not the Legionnaires. Laurel has her own super-vision to observe from afar, which is neatly illustrated by the reflection of a fallen Jo in her eye. However, it appears that the former Legionnaires have some catching up to do with this new reality. Cham is overconfident about negotiating Mysa's release and all five are taken by surprise when plunged into their Mordru-induced nightmares.

This issue sets up a new trajectory for the team, with a number of variations of old plotlines. They're still going after Mysa, Rond is still a prisoner of Mordru and Roxxas has still murdered Blok, Dirk is still working for Earthgov. However, new characters and history confirm that the timeline really did end when Glorith completed her ritual in the previous issue. For Glorith to have injured Lar so badly supports her role as the new puppet master.

The new characters are intriguing. Laurel is suspiciously Supergirl-like and her family name implies that she is Daxamite, if not a direct relation to Lar. Celeste is a bit of a cliché, the plucky girl trying to make it in a man's world (ouch!), but at least she's aware that Dirk worked his charm on her and she succumbed. She calls herself Rockfish but the Dominator refers to her as a McCauley, which provides some mystery of whether she's related to Leland - if he still exists. Bounty brings the hard-boiled gun-loving trope to the team and Devlin is the affable optimist. They're a pleasant counterpoint to the Legion team and it's hard to tell if they'll be played for laughs or rise to hero status.

Apart from #5, I haven't really liked any of the covers so far and this one is particularly grisly. It looks like Mordru's hand and sleeve, but is an image of a puppeteer - so it does invite one to start reading and find out what actually happened after the previous issue.


Holy Cats of Egypt!
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 26 "Five Years Later"
Fat Cramer #978712 11/12/19 05:14 PM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 31,485
Tempus Fugitive
Offline
Tempus Fugitive
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 31,485
v4 Issue 6

A li’l thoth finger print has smudged above the “G” in Giffen on this bloodier version of the JLA’s Fingers of Felix Faust cover. I’d have shown my dad the similarity, as he liked the original JLA.

The first Legionnaire we see in this post Mordruverse, is the same one that appeared first in this volume, Dirk Morgna charms a promising investigator, Celeste Rockfish, to look into the circumstances behind the release of Roxxas. Dirk mentions a paternity suit that he beat. Not that it wasn’t true. He’s clearly been enjoying his time as Earthgov spokesman. He’s travelled a fair way from the guy who tried and failed to keep the Legion together in the 5YG. The extent of his shift depends on how much he knows about Earthgov’s links with the Dominion. Working behind Dirk is Circe and her Dominator superior.

They both know full well who released Roxxas. They tell the reader that the Daily Planet has found a link between Roxxas and Earthgov, prompting them into trying to set up a whitewash. They are convinced they can ensure that Rockfish’s investigation comes up with nothing. If it does, she’ll be killed. Is Dirk party to that knowledge too? His “Blok was my teammate. My friend” statement has the measured emphasis as the rest of his charm offensive. But does he know who killed Roxxas? Does he know that the butcher will be looking for further Legionnaires?

Circle obsesses over the Erin file again. But even if there’s a confrontation between them during the Terra Mosaic, this is a subplot that doesn’t go anywhere quickly.

Roxxas is currently on Korr, where he kills a number of assistants to get a new wardrobe all his personalities agree with. Chilling with a humorous edge. Despite the death toll, the butcher must have escaped easily enough, as we get a news report on not only the deaths, but on Roxxas being the killer. They even go so far as to reinforce the link that Roxxas and Earthgov have a connection. The news coverage worries the dominion who will try and convince people, through Morgna, that Celeste is the best detective since Wayne. Morgna would surely realise that this all stinks. He’s smart enough to realise that the connection with Roxxas has some substance.

I can only assume that the plotting of the Daily Planet investigation was jettisoned to make space for the changes that had to be made in recent issues. As it’s a fairly big plotline, I think that the absence of a substantial set up for it, eventually derails a number of characters in the book.

Back at the office, Celeste mentally thumps herself for falling for Morgna’s charm. She’s taken the case (it does pay well presumably, so perhaps she’s just a bit uneasy working for Earthgov) and is looking to track down Roxxas. Her best lead is to visit Trom, where Jan Arrah is the caretaker, The reveal of this is nicely written – the place – the caretaker – is power – then his name.

Celeste is told by new character Bounty, that Legionnaires have been known to crack up, indicating that Jan might have some issues form his time there alone (since Erin’s on Earth). Getting to Trom could be a problem as there are no flights. Fortunately, or conveniently, another new character, Devlin O’Ryan, is about to enter their office.

Rockfish (named after the Rockford Files as name dropped on page 21) is looking to find Roxxas. That’s what Dirk asks her to do. If she turned on the news, or caught a headline (or read across the page) she would know *exactly* where he was. The very next page goes out of its way to tell us. HE'S ON KORR! It makes no sense for any of them to go to Trom at all.

On the way to Trom, Celeste tells us that they need Jan because he knows Roxxas. Jan might be able to help them track him down. Perhaps Jan has seen any of the news bulletins and can just direct them to Korr? HE'S ON KORR, GUYS!

The reason why this makes no sense, is because Jan would originally have been someone to contact over the death of Erin. That was the original plot. That’s what is supposed to get him on board, resulting in his life or death decision over the villain in a later issue. In an old story, Jan pulled the trigger on Roxxas. What would happen this time?

Other plot casualties here are Devlin. He comes across as a horrible walking tourist trap owner. If he was any more over-Irish, he would have been given Myg’s sonic powers in the SW6 chambers and renamed Banshee Boy.

But there’s more to him that that. There will a glimpse of something later on that I’ll come to. But up to this point, he’s been instrumental in the investigation into the Earthgov-Roxxas link. Iris West has been the other prime mover. We don’t get to see any of that, because they decided to kill of Blok on the puppetoid planet. What could have been a tale of intrigue, becomes a drop-in centre for new characters. Iris West’s children would feature later on. But without the gravity of *why* they were targeted. Devlin doesn’t turn up at that office by chance, and that could have been developed.

I can’t imagine that I recognised Bounty as Dawnstar from this appearance. It doesn’t tie up with the segment we saw of Dawnstar from an earlier issue, and we’re given no clue as to why Bounty is with Rockfish at all (another dropped subplot or a reveal they never got around to).

We get a surprising amount of room devoted to the group’s trip to Trom. There’s some comedy with the life support, that Bounty is completely self-involved which is supposed to be an early clue. There’s also a UP Minute history info dump on Jan and Trom. As earlier issues teased us with snippets, this seems a bit much. It’s a fun device (that will get used by TMK later for some definite filler/ info dumping) but we’ve already been told most of the contents of this page, making it superfluous. The reveal of Jan is impressive. It’s the half way point for the Legion’s return and is celebrated by getting a splash page. Despite all the problems, Giffen has hit his story beat.

Giffen removed a lot of the heavy hitters in the team. This was to make it tougher for the remaining characters, That in turn would make their heroism stand out all the more. So Jan’s return is interesting, as the extent of his powers was never really settled on. He’s a character that could end any fight just by looking at it.

(TMK ingeniously solved this by having the cast sit on their butts for issues on end. smile )

Thicker, older versions of transuits are used by the visitors to Trom. They’re what a post-Mordruverse Sir Prise and Miss Terious would have used to join the Legion.

The other main plot running through this issue picks up just where we left before Lar Gand’s return. In the Levitz days, the Legion lost a lot of shuttle craft arriving on planets to get blown out of the sky. Here, they get to land, get quarters and petition for an audience with the Emperor. It’s a really nice change of pace. Although Brita’s thought on sitting on their butts is prescient for this volume. smile

Reep prepares to negotiate with Mordru. He’s still full of confidence with his Brande Industries success and the beginnings of the Legion’s return. There’s also the backstory of Mordru’s power to be considered. They think they are dealing with a powerful sorcerer, in a galxy that has been stripped of magic. A man who they have beaten on numerous occasions and who had what was left of his power taken from him. But what they don’t realise is that they face the intellect that got all that power in the first place, combined with what magic was left.

If negotiations fail, then they will attack. Jo’s the one who advises a bit more caution. I’m not even sure what Rokk would contribute to such an attack, as he’s lost his powers and isn’t armed.

Monitoring all of this (because someone is always monitoring the team, and it’s his turn), Mordru sends a reminder of who, or whom, they face. Furball feels it first, in a nice touch to his enhanced senses as they are all plunged into a nightmare where they relive twisted versions of their worst moments. They are strong scenes that combine backstory with the current plot.

Brita relives an early memory. She’s five, and boarders have attacked the Sklarian Raiders in revenge for their “stealing and plundering”. They might be SPs, of which one is from Rimbor (possibly connecting Brita with her future there). A final sound effect on the page suggests that Brita’s mother is killed. But it’s very clear reading this, that she’s raped in front of her daughter. This ends up being one of those throwaway tragic backstory moments put in to make characters darker. That’s opposed to being put in because the writers have anything to actually say about an issue that’s all too widespread and sickening across our world.
Tasmia’s veiled seclusion; Mysa’s abuse; Imra & Lydda’s plot pregnancies and Brita’s backstory is adding up to Women in Fridges territory. Which isn’t something I’d gone into these rereads considering.

Reep killed his brother in a tribal ritual, before he left Durla and ended up with the Legion. He must have had some thoughts on the code against killing.

Jo almost suspects something’s not right as he knows details of his origin are wrong here. He’s derailed by the appearance of Tinya’s body. Plotwise, it builds up to the person that does figure it out. But it’s a proto-Mary Sue moment.

Rokk, the leader and foundation of this Legion, is the one who has the will to overcome the spell. He sees through the combination of Venudo Bay and Pols’ death.

It’s partly the build up to Rokk’s realisation about what’s going on, that derailed me from the following page. I thought the clinic scene of Brin Londo’s was a new subplot. The other flashbacks aren’t tinted, so this was just Brin’s perspective now, rather than a flashback. Despite the sound effects at the top of the page matching Furball, I missed the connection. Jo telling Rokk & Cham about him somewhere in these issues might have helped. On the plus side, there’s nothing wrong with a book that gives rewards for rereads. smile

He might know what’s going on, but Krinn is still subdued. Commander Vrykos knocks out all the others, except for him. Vrykos is apparently the only one who doesn’t tremble in the Emperor’s presence. It’s worth mentioning that he’s a prospective Legion member in each of these issues. This issue, he’s happy to take the team down to a dungeon where countless people have been tortured to death, and sometimes brought back for more. What a guy! Ick!

Mordru is aware of the nightmares each of them is enduring. This can be added to his taste for human flesh from #3 to remind us of what a monster he is. He’s sharing the group’s nightmares with Mysa. She’s residing in a harem in Mordru’s pleasure gardens. The jewel at her throat looks to have been torn out. She pleads with Mordru to stop the link. It’s a link that others there think of as sharing and confiding with the Emperor. Mysa relives the pain over again as the link is maintained. This is part of what Mordru considers to be Mysa staying of her own free will, while the Legion seek to take her by force.

The glimmer of hope in Rokk’s resistance to Mordru is really added to by the appearance of another new character. She’s blonde, powerful, can fly and has super senses. It’s Projectra! … um.. with Sensor Girl hair! I can’t remember if I immediately thought Supergirl right on that page. The headband and the susceptibility to magic are other massive clues. So, it’s not as though they didn’t put in enough hints.

Laurel Gand, like Kent Shakespeare would be stand out characters for me. Form their first panels, they screamed Legionnaire material. Both characters would have a lot of background tweaks as circumstances changed behind the scenes. Kent lost a lot of the Superboy plotlines that were planned. Laurel was added in an ingenious move to fill the role of Supergirl in the post Modru-verse (and post crisis) Legion.

In earlier issues, the Dominion and Mordru were monitoring the Legionnaires and becoming alarmed when tow of them would meet for lunch. One wrinkle here is Rokk’s team isn’t the first to have tried to rescue Mysa. Rond and Laurel were doing exactly the same thing. Yet no one released Roxxas on the back of that. Because back in issue #3 Rond was really there so the Power Ring could be destroyed. Laurel wasn’t even created. Their unexpected developments are all credit to TMK.

Had all this been fleshed out, perhaps Cham would already have been behind Rond’s mission to Tharn. This story might have seen the joining of two planned sub groups.

Another plot could have seen the Legion visit Tharn and just ask to see Mordru’s wife. Or first wife, as the book dips into cultural differences spoken about last issue. Mysa isn’t a character in this issue. She’s little more than an object. Her only interaction in the issue is with another woman in the harem, and that goes badly. It shows her isolation from the cast, and from the writing process. Mordru and the Legion are pitted against each other with Mysa as a prize and not a person.

Mordru has claimed ownership of her and the Legion want her too. What we do see of her shows her as traumatised through the actions of her husband. We’re never told why the Legion wanted to get Mysa back. It seems as though they all knew where she was, if not the circumstances. While the writers know all this, some concern from the cast would have gone a long way here. I get more of a feeling that Rond and Laurel cared about Mysa, than the Legion does.

The issue gives almost equal weight to the Legion reforming against Mordru and the investigation into Roxxas, who is trying to prevent it. Both have plenty of movement, leading to a strong midway point with Jan’s return.

Roxxas gets himself a new coat, rather than look to fulfil any further part of his mission. It looks as though the writers are moving along the rest of the cast to catch up, while the villain waits. We’re introduced to plenty of new cast members, nearly all of which will become part of the team: Celeste, Bounty, Devlin and Laurel. Thankfully, Vrykos didn’t make it.


"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 26 "Five Years Later"
Fat Cramer #978806 11/16/19 07:40 AM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 16,853
Time Trapper
OP Offline
Time Trapper
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 16,853
Originally Posted by thoth
They both know full well who released Roxxas. They tell the reader that the Daily Planet has found a link between Roxxas and Earthgov, prompting them into trying to set up a whitewash. They are convinced they can ensure that Rockfish’s investigation comes up with nothing. If it does, she’ll be killed. Is Dirk party to that knowledge too? His “Blok was my teammate. My friend” statement has the measured emphasis as the rest of his charm offensive. But does he know who killed Roxxas? Does he know that the butcher will be looking for further Legionnaires?


A good question, how much Dirk knows. I figure he's deep deep into denial. Perhaps we can partially forgive him as suffering from trauma during 5YG and Black Dawn.

Quote
I can only assume that the plotting of the Daily Planet investigation was jettisoned to make space for the changes that had to be made in recent issues. As it’s a fairly big plotline, I think that the absence of a substantial set up for it, eventually derails a number of characters in the book.


Right, this would explain how Devlin just appeared out of nowhere - and would have given him more substance.

Quote
I can’t imagine that I recognised Bounty as Dawnstar from this appearance. It doesn’t tie up with the segment we saw of Dawnstar from an earlier issue, and we’re given no clue as to why Bounty is with Rockfish at all (another dropped subplot or a reveal they never got around to).


I certainly didn't recognize her - not until she was revealed to be Dawnstar. If that tattoo/mark on her face is supposed to provide a hint, it passed me by.

Quote
Giffen removed a lot of the heavy hitters in the team. This was to make it tougher for the remaining characters, That in turn would make their heroism stand out all the more. So Jan’s return is interesting, as the extent of his powers was never really settled on. He’s a character that could end any fight just by looking at it.

(TMK ingeniously solved this by having the cast sit on their butts for issues on end. smile )


smile smile smile

Quote
Tasmia’s veiled seclusion; Mysa’s abuse; Imra & Lydda’s plot pregnancies and Brita’s backstory is adding up to Women in Fridges territory. Which isn’t something I’d gone into these rereads considering.


It's a curious thing and I hadn't considered it either before this reread. In times of chaos, women's roles revert to patriarchal tradition? That might work for Tharn and the Khunds. I would have liked to see Tasmia a lot more proactive, if still mourning Lar, and Imra, during her first pregnancy, went out and kicked ass against the LSV - so she could have been more involved.

Quote
Mordru has claimed ownership of her and the Legion want her too. What we do see of her shows her as traumatised through the actions of her husband. We’re never told why the Legion wanted to get Mysa back. It seems as though they all knew where she was, if not the circumstances. While the writers know all this, some concern from the cast would have gone a long way here. I get more of a feeling that Rond and Laurel cared about Mysa, than the Legion does.


One also wonders where Mysa's sister is in all this. TMK could have added a line or two of dialogue to explain that Legionnaires knew Mysa was in trouble and Rond was looking into it - so now they're going to find out what happened to Rond as well. How does anyone even know that Mysa is living the idyllic romantic life she envisioned?

Quote
Thankfully, Vrykos didn’t make it.


The idea that a vampire might be a Legionnaire continues to baffle me.


Holy Cats of Egypt!
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 26 "Five Years Later"
Fat Cramer #978841 11/17/19 03:54 PM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 31,485
Tempus Fugitive
Offline
Tempus Fugitive
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 31,485
Originally Posted by Cramer
I love the symmetry of this story. Three characters of power versus three resisters, each mirroring the opposite: the one with knowledge, the woman with mind-sight (Glorith's comes via the spy network) and the muscle. The three also more loosely mirror the Legion founders, if one considers Rokk as the historian, Imra as the mind-reader and Garth as the man of action. The powerful represent the great Legion villains to some degree as well: Mordru as himself, Glorith as the Time Trapper and Mano representing the Fatal Five.


Lots of really interesting parallels there Cramer. Echoes and Archetypes that survive across timestreams. Whether by design (Trapper or Glorith) or “naturally” as in the Modruverse.

Originally Posted by Cramer
There's a brief mention of Lallor and Winathian-clan resistance fighters, a hint that other alternate Legion personalities exist. As Lar said in the previous issue, somebody somewhere will rise up to take the Legion's place.


Thinking ahead to the next issue or two, if you had a clean slate to bring back a Legion at this point, what would have brought back or dropped?

Originally Posted by Cramer
Mordru is only seen in two panels at the end, but his brutal presence is felt throughout the story. It's curious that he permits Christianity - perhaps it's the state religion - although it may be the writers' choice to present this as a means of control, a myth in itself, or one may imagine that Mordru has reworked the religion to suit his purposes and we only see the visual trappings.


I got a repressive Byzantine feel from the issue, with the Emperor as a quasi-mystical figure at the head of the church and an absolute monarch (See DC Special #17 for the Mordru vs Pontiff conflict that leads into this issue). You could run an Alt+Legion series just set in the intrigue of Empire. Considering the rich Legion fanfic out there, I wonder if it’s already been done?

Originally Posted by Ann
But Cramey's review has really rekindled my enthusiasm for the Re-Reads, which was starting to wane due to a variety of factors, but mainly because issues 6 through 10 are going to be a slog for me (you all have been forewarned!


I really hope you can keep going with these. I’ve been looking forward to your views on these issues.

Originally Posted by Cramer
This is a new timeline. How much is different? We're not certain.


I’ve since seen that some readers thought it was a complete reboot, or that major changes were to made. I suppose that the Krypton removal was just such a big change. At the time though, I didn’t really have any concerns as the narrative, said that they would keep as many of the original pieces as possible. How trusting I was smile

Originally Posted by Cramer
Then there's Laurel Gand, a new face to the reader, but someone with a Legion history and looking like a hyper-sexy Supergirl. She's going to rescue Rond and "five more of my old teammates". I'm not sure if that's an editorial goof, since even in this version, Kono was not a Legionnaire and was unknown to Cham.


Rokk, Reep, Jo, Brin and Mysa. Not that I’d know it was Brin until the Quiet Darkness. That little detail and the likes of the possible white out, makes me think I read and enjoyed the issues, but that I didn’t read them closely enough to get all the references first time.

Originally Posted by Cramer
Laurel has her own super-vision to observe from afar, which is neatly illustrated by the reflection of a fallen Jo in her eye.


That indeed was a nice touch. Next issue she uses her telescopic vision to watch Mordru watch the Dominators keep visual tabs on the rest of the Legion. smile

Originally Posted by Cramer
This issue sets up a new trajectory for the team, with a number of variations of old plotlines. They're still going after Mysa, Rond is still a prisoner of Mordru and Roxxas has still murdered Blok, Dirk is still working for Earthgov. However, new characters and history confirm that the timeline really did end when Glorith completed her ritual in the previous issue. For Glorith to have injured Lar so badly supports her role as the new puppet master.


I had thought that characters such as Celeste and Devlin were always intended to be part of the plot. This reread has made me think they were actually supposed to get a bigger role in these early issues that issue 5 got in the way of.

I wasn’t so sure about Kent, but the Amazing (Let’s Give Whole Plots Away) Heroes article that came out before the series, indicates they were planned prior to the Waid/ Supes Office Bust up.

Originally Posted by Cramer
The new characters are intriguing. Laurel is suspiciously Supergirl-like and her family name implies that she is Daxamite, if not a direct relation to Lar.

Laurel would be the new one. I’d read that at one point she was to be from the 20th century too.

Originally Posted by Cramer
They're a pleasant counterpoint to the Legion team and it's hard to tell if they'll be played for laughs or rise to hero status.

With Giffen’s Subs fresh in people minds, it could easily go either way.


"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 26 "Five Years Later"
Fat Cramer #978912 11/20/19 12:57 PM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 16,853
Time Trapper
OP Offline
Time Trapper
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 16,853
[Linked Image from imagizer.imageshack.com]

Legion of Super-Heroes #7 written by Keith Giffen, Tom & Mary Bierbaum & Al Gordon, art by Giffen & Gordon, Letters Todd Klein, Colours Tom McCraw, Editor Michael Eury

Laurel finds Rond and is attacked by Vrykos, who wants to feed on Daxamite blood. Cham's team awakens in pajamas, find Laurel in mid-fight. Kono shifts some mass, causing the vampire to fall through the floor. Since he failed to get Daxamite blood, Vrykos goes after Rond.

Mysa struggles with self-loathing, finds Rond but sinks further into despair. The ex-Legionnaires arrive; Cham does a switch at super-speed with Laurel's help, impersonating Rond and surprising Vrykos. Vrykos grabs Mysa, humiliates her in front of her friends. She responds by obliterating him.

While all this is going on, Rokk dines with Mordru and negotiates the release of Mysa and Rond. Mordru strands them all on a distant planet as they depart.

Jan convinces Celeste's team to go to Winath and pay respects to Blok as well as search for Roxxas.

Two beings in a research station observe an unusual energy heading to Trom then veering off to Winath.

A text piece advertises the probes.


Comments:Some real battle action at last. Laurel isn't the kind to sit around and negotiate. One wonders what took her so long to rescue Rond, but we don't know how much time Rond has spent as a prisoner. Does her fighting ability excuse her thong and the rear-end shot? She's not afraid to flaunt her physical appearance, as she'll explain to her SW6 self in a later issue. It's the future, so I'll buy it. Kono doesn't sit around either, even in what she would consider an offensive teddy and garters (a nice contrast with Laurel). The two women drive the action forward in this issue, while the men talk. Kono's power is impressive: she doesn't even have to lift a finger.

Mysa's situation is heart-breaking. She looks beautiful, she's dressed elegantly and she's broken, miserable, abused, incapable of action. When she's pushed past her emotional limit, she explodes with deadly violence - but not against the man who abused her.

Mordru has the veneer of gentility but is a thug. One would think his harem at least would be protected, but they're available as meals for Vrykos. Despite his brutality, he doesn't get his own fingers dirty and plays with rather than physically fights the Legionnaires. Does he use humiliation to spar with those he fears are his equals? He's more reminiscent of the trickster Time Trapper of the Baxter era in this sense.

Rokk gets a big boost in hero-status in this issue. I never thought of him as a skillful negotiator, but he's cautious, quick-thinking and calm in this story, so I'll just accept the new-to-me Rokk. The text-form affords ample room to develop both Rokk's and Mordru's inner thoughts as well as recount their meal conversation. One of the best aspects of the 5YL run is the use of these dense, information-filled text pieces.

The other scenes set up a reunion and promise some serious action on Winath - one gets the sense that the team will be coming together. It's going to be a slow process, though.


Holy Cats of Egypt!
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 26 "Five Years Later"
Fat Cramer #978921 11/20/19 08:36 PM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 31,485
Tempus Fugitive
Offline
Tempus Fugitive
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 31,485
v4 Issue 7

I had thought that a lot of this volume shifted quickly between various subplots. But this is an issue with 20 pages focusing on the Mordru plot, with 2 subplots getting a page each. It also follows the more linear #4, #5 and a half and half split last time. I wonder if they got some early feedback too, as I’m thinking of that let’s-catch-up-with -everyone page (that I don’t like) from #3.

As you read this issue, it’s worth remembering that Laurel Gand wasn’t originally going to be in it. She’s a post-Mordruverse creation. That’s why Jo gets to carry around a still unconscious Brin for the issue. Without Laurel’s creation, it would have presumably been one or both of them who would have been fighting here. Perhaps Brin, to give it a Werewolf vs Vampire feel? While we’ve seen Jo in action in #2, it relegated Brin to supporting cast again, and it will be a long time before he gets a spotlight.

TMK do a really good job in showing Laurel, with her weakness to magic knowingly going into a trap to rescue her friends. Modru using a lead lined dungeon is a nice nod to showcase Laurel’s powers, as is the early introduction to her heat vision. It feels like more of a reminder, than an introduction for Laurel who effortlessly fills the Supergirl role in the Legion. She’ll get a spotlight issue shortly, but it’s already worth wondering how Laurel fits in with the Legion’s history, in particular Brainy.

You feel Laurel’s horror when she discovers Rond. A terror that’s escalated as she’s pushed into the pit with him. Her fight against Vrykos choreographs two capable combatants really well. There are a couple of lighter moments for her. One when she meets the Legionnaires and the other when she smiles at Vrykos, that don’t quite match her shock and anger at Rond’s fate. They do work as lighter moments by themselves though.

Her opponent, Vrykos, is a worthy one. In terms of power anyway. In every other way, he’s a grade A creep. Every woman is a “trollop” or a “tramp” to him, and every situation is to be exploited for his own interests. Of Mordru’s court, he seems to be the only one with some plans of his own. He kills one of Mordru’s wives from last issue in the opening scene of this one- hard to tell with the eye colouring in this issue, but I can’t imagine Mordru being too pleased. He’s bound by Mordru’s edicts, but constantly tries to work around them to drink the blood of his foes. He’s genuinely upset at losing his chance to take some of Laurel’s powers.

All of this is a preamble to the issue’s main point, which is Mysa. Nearly 1 in 4 women and 1 in 7 men have experienced violence from a partner. There’s also emotional abuse that can be every bit as devastating, resulting in shame, fear and guilt. It’s not uncommon for the abuse to be over a long period long enough for the person experiencing it, to feel that they are the ones to blame.

I’ve always thought that this issue gives a very good account of such a relationship. It has its problems, but is head and shoulders above dealing with such issues compared to other comics, certainly in this genre.

Mysa has felt all of the above. She hates Mordru even as she blames herself and others for his rage and violence. Her fear of him is palpable as she summons the courage to visit Rond. She has endured physical and mental abuse at her partner’s hands and dreads the punishment if she interferes. But she manages to summon the courage to act; manages to have some vestige of clarity after so much abuse to realise how much more of her would be lost if she can’t do something now.

Vrykos acts as a Modru stand-in as he mocks her in front of her friends. His words could easily be those of the Emperor, and perhaps in an early plot were just that. Vrykos suggests that the Emperor has done so much for her, and that her actions are ones of betrayal that will come with consequences she’ll deserve. He tells her friends that she’s not the person they remember. That’s she’s a crushed and broken shell. Bringing all of this to a comic book head, it pushes Mysa to act, obliterating most of Vrykos.

The page where we hear Vrykos’ screams is interesting. It shows multiple images of Mysa, curled on the floor with her hands over her face. She’s withdrawn, following her ordeal and also because of what Vrykos has just said in front of her friends. Then there’s all the other emotions given above, the guilt, shame, anger and fear. The final panel of Mordru’s mosaic eye indicates that he still watches over all. It recalls the Modruverse where Rond thought it might all be one of his games. Laurel has closed her eyes and Reep looks at Mysa and how much has happened to her in silence. Perhaps they feel guilt at not having helped before or because they didn’t know how to? Perhaps they’re displacing some anger onto Mysa for what’s happened to her, and are feeling guilty about that. It’s as complex as a lot of the other relationship issues in this story.

As I mentioned last issue, Mysa is a bargaining chip. A band of white knights arriving to “rescue” someone in this situation can often be the worst thing to happen to the victim. What’s telling in this story, is that no one seems to have ever talked to Mysa about it. Mysa doesn’t interact with anyone in the entire story. She shared a few letters with Nura (RPG book) and that’s about it. It’s seemingly enough to know that she married Mordru and therefore needs rescuing. As the reader hasn’t been told how the Legion get their information on Mysa, it’s as if the characters have been given a peek behind the curtain by the writers. Mordru reinforces this view. He pragmatically trades Mysa in for some peace from the Legion. Her well-being never crosses his mind. Mysa is removed from one relationship where she’s coerced into the helpful hands of others, who also seem to know exactly what’s best for her, and don’t who don’t see the obvious parallels.

As with other Vrykos appearances, I like to mention that he was somehow on the cards to be one of the team. I simply can’t imagine how that would be possible after his appearance in this story. Clutching at straws, I’d like to think the idea came before they’d fully plotted the story. If not, it would have been a massive error of judgement.

As all this is going on, Rokk is sitting with Mordru over dinner, negotiating her, and their own release. Rokk, it should be noted, is also no stranger to being the perpetrator in abusive relationships. In our real world, there have been recent cases that have resulted in a large amount of diplomatic hand wringing as women have fled oppressive marriages. As with this story, those responsible get away scott free.

TMK’s shaping of Modru into someone who resembles a grade A scumbag in our own world is a plus for the character and the book. At his strongest in his first appearance (including a flashback to an unpublished earlier one), he became a cliched, cackling, egomaniacal villain. Every defeat diminished him. He was pulled out of a hat (fitting considering his magical origins) as a Villain-of-the-day or added to the Earthwar layers of villains. Later, he’d be reduced to having all his power removed by Darkseid.

His later treatment under Levitz offered the seeds to what we see here. Mordru was released by other sorcerers. We see moments of his power mad ego, before they too are stripped from him. The idea was that he would now be innocent of his past, and learn anew to be a better part of the world around him. The sort of mind tampering the UP got up to all time, but with a magical twist.

But in the wake of the Magic Wars (where we didn’t see Mordru appear despite the Archmage bouncing all over his planet) Sorcerers faced a very uncertain future. Having to relocate to Tharn and diminished in power they were no match for the harsh new reality around the, And that’s when they decided that Mordru, the one they tried to make more innocent, was given some of his power back.

But Mordru is an utter monster, whether he has his powers or not. He did indeed have the skills to carve out a new world. He did manage to protect the Sorcerers, none of who we see here. But he’s never changed, and all his monstrous personality traits are just clothed as a statesman, rather than as a conqueror. It was in those early days of hope for their new, more innocent Mordru, that Mysa married him. Even then, looking at the RPG book, there were problems.

Like a number of things with this volume, strong starting points are undermined by later events, such as swapping Erin and Blok. It applies to Mysa too. We see Mysa withdraw further into herself. There’s a suggestion it’s because of what happened to Blok as much to what she’s going through. There might be the odd mention of her from Brainy. But there’s no interaction with her, until someone shouts at her during the Khund War. Mysa and Mordru will be part of a post TMK, but still TM story. But that’s years down the line and has a different approach.

So it seems as though, like so many comic stories, there’s no follow through. “Right, we’ve traumatised one of our cast, while making a real-world analogy. Let’s move on to the next one.” Considering the in-world implications of Modru’s power, it would have been simplistic to have Rokk and the others beat him into a pulp (although very gratifying). But simplicity seems to be exactly the route chosen to deal with the aftermath of Mysa’s abuse.

TMK return Mordru to being a major league villain with a key position in the politics of the galaxy. They leave the reader in no doubt that there will be further confrontations. But considering the volume as a whole, I’m not convinced it’s enough to justify the lack of dealing with the consequences of this story. TMK gave us a dense, complex (but not complicated) starting point. But if the starting point of that mature outlook has no conclusion, negative, dangling plots are left behind, leaving the premise as a questionable one.

Perhaps I’m doing that the later T&M story a disservice, and they deal with the repercussions of this story there. But presently, Mysa joins the that growing list of Lydda, Imra, Tasmia and Dawnstar. Which is a shame, as this story promised to deal with so much on this subject.

Rokk is another character who has gone through life changing events. Like Mysa, his TMK arc will reach a payoff and conveniently then completely drop the trauma that led up to it. Prior to reading this issue for the first time, I’d just gone through a number of text-heavy comics. I remember reading this on the bus home (a sign of quality, to be brought out on the bus). I remember groaning at the text pages in this issue. I don’t think the bus was that well lit either. But that doesn’t mean that they aren’t a treat. They highlight the statecraft that make both Mordru and Rokk political leaders, while giving a look at the precarious nature of political power in the post Magic War era. These pages also show that Giffen was willing to break that 9 panel page where needed. Also notable this issue are sound effects and dialogue crossing panels (16 and 18) and larger panels broken into the 9 panel structure (top of 14)

With Rokk, Laurel and Mysa being the main Legionnaires here, there’s not much for Jo, Brin and Kono to do here. As mentioned, Laurel’s appearance is why Jo and Brin step back. But Kono is an unintended victim of this too. Being with Jo and Brin she might have had a bigger part to play in the original plot. She does get some good moments, and shows more of her mass shifting powers to good effect. Cham also gets to use his powers probably as intended form the start. Impersonations of other cast members being a long-standing Legion tradition.

Elsewhere, Celeste, Bounty, Devlin and Jan leave Trom to track down Roxxas WHO IS ON KORR, GUYS! READ THE HOLOS!. They decide to go to Winath, because that’s where he sent Blok’s body. Note that Roxxas didn’t hand deliver the body, perhaps indicating that he’s not on Winath. Perhaps he had other business ON KORR! As reported in the new bulletins. This group going to Winath is a blatant railroading of the plot, although I’d not have known this at the time.

Behind the group, something is following. Something else comprised of energy that is conveniently green on the scanning equipment. It’s stated here that the source of the green energy was Earth, but I don’t think we ever find out why.
The issue closes out on a fun ad for the Blue Probes we see throughout the volume.

At the time, this was another strong issue. It dealt with a mature and complex theme. It reintroduced Mordru as a major ongoing villain. We got to see Laurel Gand in action for the first time and a couple of subplots were nudged along too. Brin is called Wolf, which goes in the missed connections pile with the others, and Kono shows the versatility of her powers.

The Legion had achieved their objective of getting Mysa away from Mordru (assuming that’s why they went), even if this darker galaxy didn’t give them the outright win of defeating Mordru too. But there’s no doubt more was coming following this confrontation.

Looking back, the lack of resolution for the mature theme introduced is a big disappointment. Similarly, the finding Roxxas plot is essentially dumped. As Roxxas will go to the Legion, the introduction of Bounty, Celeste and Devlin turns out to be mostly pointless.

Behind the scenes, more issues were about to reach the surface. Even getting to the end of #7 has involved the ending of one issue being rewritten and a forced fill in issue. The early plans before launch, would become even more fragmented and prolonged. The more momentum that was lost, and the more fillers that were required, meant it was all the harder to hit the strengths of the early issues. This issue probably marks the end of that early momentum.


"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 26 "Five Years Later"
Fat Cramer #979028 11/24/19 12:39 PM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 16,853
Time Trapper
OP Offline
Time Trapper
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 16,853


Originally Posted by thoth
As you read this issue, it’s worth remembering that Laurel Gand wasn’t originally going to be in it. She’s a post-Mordruverse creation. That’s why Jo gets to carry around a still unconscious Brin for the issue. Without Laurel’s creation, it would have presumably been one or both of them who would have been fighting here. Perhaps Brin, to give it a Werewolf vs Vampire feel? While we’ve seen Jo in action in #2, it relegated Brin to supporting cast again, and it will be a long time before he gets a spotlight.


Good point, who would have been the heavy to fight Vrykos without Laurel. This would have been the logical place for Brin's big break-out.

Quote
Her opponent, Vrykos, is a worthy one. In terms of power anyway. In every other way, he’s a grade A creep. Every woman is a “trollop” or a “tramp” to him, and every situation is to be exploited for his own interests. Of Mordru’s court, he seems to be the only one with some plans of his own. He kills one of Mordru’s wives from last issue in the opening scene of this one- hard to tell with the eye colouring in this issue, but I can’t imagine Mordru being too pleased. He’s bound by Mordru’s edicts, but constantly tries to work around them to drink the blood of his foes. He’s genuinely upset at losing his chance to take some of Laurel’s powers.


I don't know if there was ever a backstory for Vrykos but wonder if he was meant to be one of a kind, or one of a race of vampires.

Quote
I’ve always thought that this issue gives a very good account of such a relationship. It has its problems, but is head and shoulders above dealing with such issues compared to other comics, certainly in this genre.


Agreed, I thought the abusive relationship and its effects on Mysa was handled well.

Quote
The page where we hear Vrykos’ screams is interesting. It shows multiple images of Mysa, curled on the floor with her hands over her face. She’s withdrawn, following her ordeal and also because of what Vrykos has just said in front of her friends. Then there’s all the other emotions given above, the guilt, shame, anger and fear. The final panel of Mordru’s mosaic eye indicates that he still watches over all. It recalls the Modruverse where Rond thought it might all be one of his games. Laurel has closed her eyes and Reep looks at Mysa and how much has happened to her in silence. Perhaps they feel guilt at not having helped before or because they didn’t know how to? Perhaps they’re displacing some anger onto Mysa for what’s happened to her, and are feeling guilty about that. It’s as complex as a lot of the other relationship issues in this story.

As I mentioned last issue, Mysa is a bargaining chip. A band of white knights arriving to “rescue” someone in this situation can often be the worst thing to happen to the victim. What’s telling in this story, is that no one seems to have ever talked to Mysa about it. Mysa doesn’t interact with anyone in the entire story. She shared a few letters with Nura (RPG book) and that’s about it. It’s seemingly enough to know that she married Mordru and therefore needs rescuing. As the reader hasn’t been told how the Legion get their information on Mysa, it’s as if the characters have been given a peek behind the curtain by the writers. Mordru reinforces this view. He pragmatically trades Mysa in for some peace from the Legion. Her well-being never crosses his mind. Mysa is removed from one relationship where she’s coerced into the helpful hands of others, who also seem to know exactly what’s best for her, and don’t who don’t see the obvious parallels.


It is very complex. We don't know what caused the Legionnaires to want to rescue Mysa. Even if she was communicating with them, it seems unlikely that she'd admit to anything. Perhaps someone else got word out. I had thought that Rond was going to rescue Mysa, but a later issue suggests that he was in a battle with Mordru himself. There may be some hints or revelations about what Mysa's former teammates knew about her situation in future issues which I've forgotten. Good point about her white knights knowing what's best for her. In the real world, they might have gotten her into therapy instead of dragging her along with them, although she's possibly safer with them.

Quote
But Mordru is an utter monster, whether he has his powers or not. He did indeed have the skills to carve out a new world. He did manage to protect the Sorcerers, none of who we see here. But he’s never changed, and all his monstrous personality traits are just clothed as a statesman, rather than as a conqueror. It was in those early days of hope for their new, more innocent Mordru, that Mysa married him. Even then, looking at the RPG book, there were problems.


Not clear if Tharn is a member of the United Planets... it wouldn't be unlike real world politics to have the leader of a member state who's a monster behind the nice suit and everyone just ignores it. Hands off internal politics, until we decide otherwise.

Quote
So it seems as though, like so many comic stories, there’s no follow through. “Right, we’ve traumatised one of our cast, while making a real-world analogy. Let’s move on to the next one.” Considering the in-world implications of Modru’s power, it would have been simplistic to have Rokk and the others beat him into a pulp (although very gratifying). But simplicity seems to be exactly the route chosen to deal with the aftermath of Mysa’s abuse.


I didn't have a problem with them putting Mysa on the back-burner for a while. She's a mess right now and withdrawn into herself. It might have made more sense to send her to Naltor but who knows, maybe she's begged them to just let her stay with them. It might be too complex a situation to incorporate into the story, so she's left in the background.

Quote
I remember reading this on the bus home (a sign of quality, to be brought out on the bus). I remember groaning at the text pages in this issue. I don’t think the bus was that well lit either. But that doesn’t mean that they aren’t a treat.


They are a treat, but years later, I need to read them under a very good light.

Quote
Behind the group, something is following. Something else comprised of energy that is conveniently green on the scanning equipment. It’s stated here that the source of the green energy was Earth, but I don’t think we ever find out why.


I haven't read ahead that far, but isn't this B.I.O.N., who was crafted on Earth with bits of Computo and SW6? Maybe the green is for the Coluan aspect of Computo although it smells of Green Lantern association.

Quote
Behind the scenes, more issues were about to reach the surface. Even getting to the end of #7 has involved the ending of one issue being rewritten and a forced fill in issue. The early plans before launch, would become even more fragmented and prolonged. The more momentum that was lost, and the more fillers that were required, meant it was all the harder to hit the strengths of the early issues. This issue probably marks the end of that early momentum.


Don't remember if these issues came out on time... smile One wonders if Waid had continued as editor....


Holy Cats of Egypt!
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 26 "Five Years Later"
Fat Cramer #979048 11/25/19 04:41 AM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 16,853
Time Trapper
OP Offline
Time Trapper
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 16,853
There's an interesting detail on the Mysa story brought up in a later letter column. One reader thought that, at the end of #8, Mysa chose to stay with Mordru and explained it as her trying to contain his darkness. This idea hinged on one panel in which a comma was misplaced, acknowledged by TM (and totally missed by me):

[Linked Image from imagizer.imageshack.com]

A very interesting theory, although not how it turned out - but the parallel with Blok and the Black Witch came to mind, Mysa containing Mordru's evil and suffering for it.


Holy Cats of Egypt!
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 26 "Five Years Later"
Fat Cramer #979058 11/25/19 05:21 PM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 31,485
Tempus Fugitive
Offline
Tempus Fugitive
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 31,485
Originally Posted by Cramer
Some real battle action at last. Laurel isn't the kind to sit around and negotiate.


The action is well enough choreographed in this volume – Jo in issue #2, Blok in #3 and now Laurel in #7. So, it’s a shame there’s not more of it throughout (at least from what I recall)

Originally Posted by Cramer
One wonders what took her so long to rescue Rond, but we don't know how much time Rond has spent as a prisoner.


The switch from Rond dying, as planned, to Rond getting attacked and consumed over and over lengthens it to being much longer than first planned I think. It’s a little tough to say, as the person rescuing him didn’t exist before #6. smile Rond’s revised fate is a blessing for Mysa. Imagine the impact if she had stood by while he was killed.

Originally Posted by Cramer
When she's pushed past her emotional limit, she explodes with deadly violence - but not against the man who abused her.


#8 – Tenzil rescues Polar Boy
#9 – Polar Boy learns that Mysa tried to kill Vrykos and puts her on Legion trial.
#10 – Polar Boy finds himself trapped back in Earth’s ice age.

Comics would normally have the character’s fury destroy their foe. Here, it seemed to be Mysa’s guilt and sense of shame that pushed her into attacking Vrykos. She might not have been able to do the same thing, if it had been Mordru. That’s one reason why I thought this was going to be the start of an arc for her.

Originally Posted by Cramer
I didn't have a problem with them putting Mysa on the back-burner for a while. She's a mess right now and withdrawn into herself. It might have made more sense to send her to Naltor but who knows, maybe she's begged them to just let her stay with them. It might be too complex a situation to incorporate into the story, so she's left in the background.


I felt that, as the writers put her in such a complex situation, it’s up to them to see it through and show the arc of the character. I know they finally get round to something before issue #50. So, perhaps they did have something in mind. But this treatment reminds me of no one seemingly caring less about Brin and Dawnstar when they show up. It’s a bit of a flaw in the book that the characters don’t have the everyday interaction you’d expect from colleagues and friends.

Originally Posted by Cramer
Mordru has the veneer of gentility but is a thug.

Perhaps Bendis has the same idea judging by V8 #1

Originally Posted by Cramer
Rokk gets a big boost in hero-status in this issue. I never thought of him as a skillful negotiator, but he's cautious, quick-thinking and calm in this story, so I'll just accept the new-to-me Rokk.

This version of him goes through to later volumes, so it’s something that TMK really set up. Adventure Cos would have been just as super-earnest as all the others, even as leader.

Originally Posted by Cramer
The text-form affords ample room to develop both Rokk's and Mordru's inner thoughts as well as recount their meal conversation. One of the best aspects of the 5YL run is the use of these dense, information-filled text pieces.


nod Even the issues I didn’t enjoy so much gave me plenty of reading for my pennies.

Originally Posted by Cramer
The other scenes set up a reunion and promise some serious action on Winath - one gets the sense that the team will be coming together. It's going to be a slow process, though.


Yeah, I’ve not peeked ahead but we may be onto the first set of issues where Giffen had quit.

Originally Posted by Cramer
I haven't read ahead that far, but isn't this B.I.O.N., who was crafted on Earth with bits of Computo and SW6? Maybe the green is for the Coluan aspect of Computo although it smells of Green Lantern association.


If it’s green like a green lantern and smells of green lantern association, then it will be green lantern. We just get some plot fragments though.

Originally Posted by Cramer
There's an interesting detail on the Mysa story brought up in a later letter column. One reader thought that, at the end of #8, Mysa chose to stay with Mordru and explained it as her trying to contain his darkness. This idea hinged on one panel in which a comma was misplaced, acknowledged by TM (and totally missed by me):


Oh, that’s a good take on it. I hadn’t noticed the comma placement either. I think that the whole thing about Mysa containing evil Mordru energy or his darkness is a massive Red Herring of Space.

With little magic left in the galaxy, the sorcerers (not known for their proactivity) looked to the only statesman they had: Mordru. They too hoped that it was the power he had that made him evil. That without it, he would be a good person. We had seen him childlike when initially stripped of his magic. But they have a very dualistic view. They are “good” sorcerers and Mordru was a “bad” one.

But Mordru is using the same energies that they do. It’s just that’s he’s an utter git of a person, as they are ineffectual people. Even with less magical power, Mordru looks to increase his temporal security, establishing himself as an emperor of Tharn and its protector. Probably much like the very first version of Mordru did. Mordru is a monster, whether he has magical powers or not.

It’s just that without those huge powers, he has to relay on other wiles to get his way. The sorcerers and Mysa fell for this, unable to escape him. The RPG has Nura caution Mysa against getting involved with him. Mysa even acknowledges that there has been conflict between them. But not long after that, she would start blaming herself and others for his rages.

I look at the whole Black Witch thing as an easy way to keep a powerful character off the board.


"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 26 "Five Years Later"
Fat Cramer #979086 11/26/19 04:29 AM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 16,853
Time Trapper
OP Offline
Time Trapper
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 16,853
[Linked Image from imagizer.imageshack.com]

Legion of Super-Heroes #8 "The Origin of the LSH" written by Keith Giffen, Tom & Mary Bierbaum & Al Gordon, art by Giffen & Gordon & Chris Sprouse, Letters Todd Klein, Colours Tom McCraw, Editor Michael Eury

Marla Latham gets an update from Cham about his recent activities on Tharn and plan to restart the Legion. Marla later reminisces about how he started out, first met R.J. Brande, later went to work for him and helped to organize a newly-founded Legion. Marla also recalls how he recruited Cham to the Legion at R.J.'s suggestion.

After being stranded on Grocz, the Legionnaires get to Zirr where Rokk hangs out with Rond and Laurel. Laurel fights a minor Khund incursion and surprises Rokk by introducing him to her and Rond's daughter.

Text pieces recount R.J.'s early days in business and present an intercepted, decoded Khund call to eliminate Laurel Gand.

Comments:
This issue is straightforward, without mystery and a charming account of friendship. It's officially the Legion origin story but tells us a lot more about Marla and R.J.. Marla wasn't much of a presence in the Legion story prior to this, but has now acquired some depth and turned out to be a very likeable, relatable character, stressed at work, family pressures, a job he loves and a boss he admires but who drives him a bit crazy. We see him grow up, calm down, learn to live with the mayhem engendered by associating with the Legion.

R.J. himself comes across as bigger than life, unstoppable, his only flaw perhaps that he dreams too big. A great comic book character, but less real than Marla. Nevertheless, many gaps in R.J.'s backstory are filled in.

The Legion's beginning is treated with some levity, which also adds to the charm of the story. There are plenty of early Adventure-era references throughout.

The last pages return to the present day; despite the gravity of the U.P.'s current situation, it's not without a light touch either, as Laurel bashes Khunds and Rokk and Rond chat. Life goes on, as evidenced by Laurel and Rond's daughter.

This is an upbeat issue, a pleasant break - Sprouse's art contributes to this - which reminds us of the Legion's message of hope for the future. It could have been published at any time after the reveal that R.J. was Reep's father.


Holy Cats of Egypt!
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 26 "Five Years Later"
Fat Cramer #979198 11/29/19 04:59 PM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 31,485
Tempus Fugitive
Offline
Tempus Fugitive
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 31,485
v4 Issue 8

A man looks out of his window, lost in thought as the world goes by. Perhaps he’s wondering where his writer/artist went, resulting in this fill in issue? No! It’s Marla Latham reminiscing!

This issue gives the reader a four-page Giffen framing sequence and, while Giffen catches up, a look back at the origins of the Legion, courtesy of Chris Sprouse.

Giffen’s opening page has a lot of repeat elements too. That might have saved some more time, but it’s well enough done that I think some time was spent on the design too.

I have mixed feelings about fill in issues. Quite a few aren’t terribly well done, and are pinch hits to bring a tardy title back up to speed. I have mixed feelings about origins being retold too. There’s often very little new to say, and yet most can’t help but tinker with the established narrative.

This issue comes off the back of, what felt at the time, a very strong opening several issues. With TMK going for a dense opening arc, this issue seemed to just get in the way, diluting its momentum.

Comparisons are made between Giffen and Gibbons nine panel grids. I don’t recall Gibbons taking a break half way through Watchmen. Mind you, at least Legion shipped on time I think, and there was Tales Of the Black Freighter. Perhaps Giffen should have had a similar tale of a cursed UP vessel traveling through the disintegration of the UP.

The RJ Brande origin was a late retcon. I don’t mind it, but any number of others would have served just as well. Some minor retconning of a retcon didn’t fill me with joy. I can’t say I’m a massive fan of Secrets that revealed the Brande/ Daggle family dynamic. It certainly led to stronger stories later on though.

Having just gone through the Mordruverse white event, there was always going to be one eye on any changes. They’re there, but the setting of the story to an earlier time, makes them less intrusive.

Brande appears out of nowhere courtesy of an off panel Trapper/Glorith time swap with Phase. Except that she replaces him exactly in time, while he ends up arriving 30 years earlier than the time she was switched from. While it underpins a lot of v4 it’s a bit of a fudge.

To be fair, we don’t see any of that here. The girl Marla is trying to impress *tells* us that a Durlan appeared and then it’s on with the story. As a time displaced Durlan, we have a reason why Brande is so keen on 20th century heroes. With Superboy gone, the biggest hero of that age is Lar Gand.

It makes sense that, upon being saved by the three founders, that he’d want to shape them into heroes from that age. Having read those earnest Adventure tales, the Legion were never played for laughs. Some of the nods here are a bit too light hearted in comparison such as the names on the costumes, the pointless machines and the antique vehicles. For balance, there’s also a dramatic panel containing Garth clutching his injured arm (a foreshadowing of what was to come), watching someone escape with a jet pack.

Marla plays a key role during this time, while wanting to get on with his real work. So, his appearance in Jo’s origin makes more sense. The recruitment of Reep also makes more sense, considering Brande’s background too. It was nice seeing the Nine Worlds Ice Cream Bar again.

T&M do a really good job weaving in later retcons such as Lucifer 7 with the Adventure issues, Brande’s frozen form and the post Mordruverse world, where there’s no Superboy. So, although it was a fill in issue, it was really well crafted by people who knew their Legion history inside out.

It was a tough assignment. If they hadn’t thought of the Marla angle, it would have been a very dull story. If they had made sweeping post-Mordruverse changes it would have caused no end of upset.

Although I’d happily pick up Hammerlocke off the back of Sprouse’s artwork, I found the cartoon creature that Brande turned into off-putting. It was early in the issue, so it lowered my opinion of the rest of it. It also wasn’t in keeping with the tine of the volume, or a Durlan’s powers as I knew them.

Another niggling moment was the needless reduction in the number of assassins attacking Brande. It should have been two. One each for Rokk and Garth to deal with. There was even a Levitz issue where the three founders visited the criminals as they were about to be released. The reduction to a lone gunman might have ticked a conspiracy theory box for T&M but it was a pointless change.

Looking back, it’s a pinch-hitting issue that the writers take full advantage of. We get a unique angle on the origin. T&M weave a number of previous retcons, and their own, into a seamless whole. The story has a sympathetic lead, in Marla, you want to get behind too. There’s a lot of good work in the issue. It’s just unfortunate it gets in the way of the storyline of previous issues.

In the pre internet days, having an origin issue wasn’t a bad thing. This would be a lot of people’s first look at where the team came from. I can’t complain. My benchmark is Alpha Flight. They went to excruciating lengths to ensure that nearly every issue had one character give a verbose background to the whole book. Because it might be someone’s first issue. And it was around issue #51/52 that was mine, and I was grateful for it (although I’d read Byrne reprints of the really early issues before that).

The tail end (not a Gand joke) of the framing sequence has Rokk and Rond (a new music genre of the 30th century?) sit on the sidelines as Laurel clears out a Khund infestation. They’re in Giffenised versions of their costumes (Rokk still in "Pale Scarlet"), and wonder if they should lend a hand. Now that both of them are powerless, I’m not sure what they help they would provide. The payoff is that Laurel has a daughter. Oddly, despite it being Rond’s home as well, it was another issue before the penny dropped when we’re told that Rond is the father. There’s some nice eater eggs with the nanny and the world. If only I could remember the references now smile

Text pages give sus more detail on Brande and Laurel. She’s been around for only a couple of issues, but Laurel could have been in the Legion for ever. And it’s not because she’s any Supergirl knockoff either. She stands firmly as her own character here.

“Get me Spiffany” remains one of my favourite lines, and Easter eggs, in the Legionverse.


"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
Page 3 of 4 1 2 3 4

Link Copied to Clipboard
ShoutChat
Forum Statistics
Forums14
Topics21,023
Posts1,045,609
Legionnaires1,730
Most Online53,886
Jan 7th, 2024
Newest Legionnaires
Anonymous Girl, Mimi, max kord, Duke, CBSutherland2000
1,730 Registered Legionnaires
Today's Birthdays
There are no members with birthdays on this day.
Random Holo-Vids
Who's Who in the LMBP
doublechinner
doublechinner
Chicago, IL
Posts: 1,272
Joined: July 2004
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5