Man, something like six years ago on the DC MBs I said on the Legion board there that DC would eventually throw up their hands and bring back the original Earth 1 Legion. And the posters on there scoffed and said it would never happen.

And a few years later I find I'm right. The only thing that surprises me is that it took them this long. They've tried everything else to revitalise the Legion since Crisis. Nothing's worked. So bringing back the fan-favourite version is a no-brainer.

In the same way that we were told very firmly that we would never see the Earth 2 Wonder Woman or Kara Zor-el again. Ahem...those edicts only hold as long as whatever editor or writer who decided this is in favour. I knew it all along!

The bottom line is profit for the comics company. If it's going to make money hell yeah they're going to restore the fan-favourite version of whatever from years ago, no matter how artistically impure we fanpersons may or may not think of it! hehe.

Honestly I hope that we don't get the E1 Legion back in its purest form. Despite being the biggest Silver Age fangirl in captivity, I for one don't relish the thought of having Dead Lyle and Incomplete Luornu back. (the early killing off of Lyle and the crippling of Luornu are the two biggest mistakes the original Legion writers made, the undoing of them was a very good thing!)

And I would want to see a Legion in which Luornu, Chuck, Tenzil and Lyle are prominent members. The marginalisation of those Legionnaires in the early 70s was another very bad mistake that doesn't need reiteration!

If they fix those mistakes, then everything's groovy, imho.

Maybe it's not such a good idea. Sometimes, as the saying goes, you can't go home again. I don't know. I'm in two minds here. I'm practically an incomplete Carggite on this.

I agree that I'd love to see the Classic Legion back, but you've also hit on one of my biggest peeves. Allow me to explain:

- Ferro Lad was created by Jim Shooter to be martyred shortly after his creation. In Secret Origin, The SW6 Legion, and various Flashbacks, we're painted a picture of a tragic character, with a fatalistic wild streak. Fantastic! But he's dead, so tough shnoogins.

- Lyle was a soft spoken but extremely capable leader and spy, and possibly was going to be one of the first openly gay characters. He was also nearly a human equivalent of Brainiac 5 in the realm of biochemistry, and was entering an era in comic where he could've truly shined. Nope. He has a ghost girlfriend and Validus crushed him. Better luck next time.

- Chemical King was in the first Adult Legion story, so he's put into the Legion, strung about for a few years, showing up in group shots, and then killed. Well, turns out he had a great backstory, a fantastic power that no writer has _to date_ tapped into, but...he's dead. He's dead because he was supposed to die. Meh. Whatever.

Bringing back the pure "Classic Legion" is really just kind of shooting yourself in the foot. Along with prevously mentioned, you have to take the "inbred Native American tracker" and "Angry Extra-Dimensonal Black Guy". I'm with you on this, Drura: I'm really hoping this is the "Classic" Legion, with a bit of continuity streamlining.

Just as Levitz tweeaked and adjusted what preceded him, so too should any revival (Action or other).

I'd like to think current writers are more savy about what to do with Lu, Condo or others. But the farther one gets from "canon," the more fire DC is going to draw from people who won't accept anything less than what they want (or rather what they think they want) (not a diss, but let's face it).

Hmm. I'm torn. Much as the Pre-Crisis Levitz Legion is "my" Legion, I've found stuff to enjoy in every iteration of the team since (yes, Abin, even the TMK, which is actually one of my favorite periods of the book). Like the man said, you can't go home again. The root of this reborn team could be in the early '80s version of the team, but it still won't be them. Every writer puts their own stuff into the team; if this book isn't written by Levitz, it won't be the Levitz Legion.

Ultimately, I'm less concerned about which version of the team we're reading about and more interested in reading stories by great writers. As long as some continuity about the characters remains, I'll be happy.

I pretty much agree with everything you just said and I've been one of the people calling for the return of that Legion for a long time.

I also would like to see Lyle(and Karate Kid) brougth back, and probably Chemical King as well...

I've never wanted Ferro Lad brought back though, he's a legendary Legionaire as a dead character and he's not that great of a character as a living one.

Pretty much I am in favor of anything that adds to the original Legion. IF they were to retcon someone like XS into the team it wouldn't bother me(although it might bother reboot fans). It was when they started retconning characters(and origins of the team) out that I got bothered.


PS: I have a feeling you might be pretty happy with Lu's role on this team pretty soon.

Well Said.

Hopefully they will De-Boot, and we will have a Legion that can endure, The Pre-Crisis Legion, With it's history and it's characters taking back their rightful place in the DCU.
For me the Re-Boots were nothing more than Elseworlds stories that went on for far to long, but if your a fan of the re-boot characters and must have them back maybe DC can Re-Boot them into the Classic Legion as a new generation of heroes and let them join the Legion Academy,
hell they can even give them their own book, this might even make me care about them, as it does not take away from The Classic Legion, maybe they can even throw in a SW6 batch version of Andrew,Lyle,Condo and Val while their at it.
Just as long as DC restores The Original Legion and never Re-Boots it again.
They should build upon that thirty years of history and quit tearing it apart and restarting it, with all that history and all those characters the storylines should be endless.
How do you think X-men fans would react if they had to put up with what us Legion fans have had to for the last twenty years or so.

Are we wishfull thinking here or was there some kind of official announcement about bringing back the original legion? What am I missing here?

I am wondering the same thing, PG...

There's been no official announcement. Perhaps I've jumped the gun a bit. Perhaps it is indeed wishful thinking. So maybe if DC doesn't deboot, I'm gonna look pretty silly! Oh well!

But it does look pretty likely, I'm about 95 % sure it will happen. As I said, DC have tried everything else to restore the Legion to its pre-Crisis popularity. Pretty much the only thing left to do is to restore the original continuity (or something close to it).

I will be very surprised if they continue with the Threeboot as the 'main Legion' after Legion of 3 Worlds. Quite apart from anything, it just doesn't make commercial sense. On every message board/comics fandom outlet for years the majority has seemed to be calling for the original Legion. You get the sense that it's what most fans want (whether or not that's actually true I don't know.)

It's very reminiscent of the Hal Jordan thing. The powers that were said "we're never bringing him back" a lot. The fans said "we want him back" a lot. In the end DC did bring him back. DC have a track record of saying oh to heck with it here's what you want now stop complaining!

I think Hal should have stayed dead personally. But that's me.

It might be nice to see Chemical King have another shake of the dog's tail. He didn't have much of a chance to shine in the original continuity. Ferro Lad I can see the wisdom of leaving as the 'legendary dead Legionnaire' but I did like the SW6 Ferro and was sorry he disappeared again so soon.

And yes, I would like to see people like Laurel Gand, XS and Kinetix make a comeback! (Tornado Girl?, Kinetic Lass?) Much as I love the Silver Age, sometimes I think that when we get into a 'back to basics' phase we run the risk of losing much that was good about the later versions too.

Here's hoping everyone's Legion wishes come true!

If I were a gambler my money would be on the universes of the reboot and 3boot being destroyed leaving the Classic/Action Legion but... with the Legionnaires who didn't have Classic equivalents surviving so XS Gates Kinetix etc (plus Bart Allen) are left behind in the Classic universe.

Whether this would apply to KK, Lyle and Ferro whose equivalents are dead is a moot point.

Perez's insistance on drawing every Legionnaire gives hope that Laurel Gand, Kent Shakespeare et al might also survive.

OK, here's my "in my dream of dreams" scenario:
DISCLAIMER: I in no way expect this outcome. This is a bit of me thinking out loud and indulging some nostalgia.

All three universes survive so that they can engage in old-school JLA/JSA style annual meetings. The Action (Earth-1) Legion remains the primary group. The other two occupy parallel earths and live happily ever after, as much as Legions ever do.

Total pipe dream. DC is way too enthused about blowing s**t up right now.

I agree with Dir, but with the proviso that Threeboot can also run as long as sales support it.

Regarding Luornu...

I have a theory that there was more to her than we knew. It was once stated that she was the only Carggite in which each duplicate had its own personality (I think).

I have a theory that she may have been a mutant capable of multiplying as much as she wanted -- but never tried -- believing she was just like everyone else. So, she could easily create two duplicates again -- and many more if needed.

Kinda like DupliKate in Invincible.

Unless he was lying, a month or two ago, Dan DiDio stated in a public forum that there would be only ONE Legion after the mini-series. He didn't specify which one though.

Personally, I think the writing is on the wall.

After a brief rise in sales on his initial issues, Shooter hasn't been able to sustain readership.

The Action Comics issues with the Legion sold better than the stories preceding it and following it.

Geoff has expressed an interest in writing the Legion, and he's DC's golden boy.

No reboot of the Legion has ever had the success of the original.

Hasta la vista Waid Legion number two.

I don't think Didio ever said there was only going to be one Legion at the end of LO3W...what he said was there would be 3, but fans of 2 of them wouldn't be as happy as fans of the 3rd one.

This could mean a variety of things but...


You know the thing about the DC Multiverse now...

The Main Earth is like a template for all the other Earths, it has aspects of all 52 other worlds...


What this means to me is that the 3 Legions could all be alternate futures of the main Earth...but at the same time, there could be other Earths in the multiverse that have some of the alternate Legions as their future time line.

For instance, W&K, reboot, 5YG, Action...could all be in the future of the main Earth as alternate futures...at the same time, Earth 2 could be the Earth of the W&K...Earth 9 or a Post Crisis Earth could be the Earth of the Reboot or the 5YG...

Might even be an Earth 1 out there with a the real Pre Crisis Legion.


They can do both now....so they could in effect fold all 3 Legions into one Legion on main Earth, and still have the other versions of the Legion on other Earths. Witht he one on current Earth being a Super Legion of sorts...the template for all the others.


The thing is, even if all versions still exist, and I truly hope they do...I can tell you right now that DC is not going to publish the reboot or likely even the 3boot, because they don't sell that well. And that's just something fans might have to accept. The reboot really sold poorly at the end of it's run.


That's a been a major reason for my stance...the Action Legion(or it's inspiration) never sold poorly...and I don't think it's going to this time either.

It wasn't rebooted because it stopped selling and was unpopular...that was all the other ones.

So I think all will exist aterwards, on other Earths..but I don't think they are going to get a monthly title.

Director's idea of Legions engaging in old JLA/JSA-style teamups sure is nice though.

I'm with Director Lad. I want my multiverse. Unfortunatly, some Final Crisis teasing aside, DC does not appear willing to admit the original Crisis was a mistake.

The end result of the original Crisis sould have left all the Earth's intact, while shifting DC's focus to a new Earth, with new updated versions of the characters, much as the Silver Age versions supplanted their Golden Age counterparts.

You know, that can still work. It's been almost as long since Crisis (23 years) and the entire Silver Age (roughly 29 years, although that's dating from the debut of Barry Allen. It soon a good five years for things to really get rolling).

If I had my way, Final Crisis would restore all the Earth's as they were before Crisis, adding in the post-Crisis universe as a separate Earth, as suggested in JSA Annual #1. Then, DC would gradually shift focus to a new Earth, starting with it's Trinity books, then adding in new versions of its other characters. Some characters, say the new Blue Beetle, might make the shift with relatively few changes, while others would see radical overhauls. If debuted today, would GL be a test pilot? Would the Flash be a "police scientist?"

I'm thinking DC is going to just that. I think DC is going to bring back Earth 1, Earth 2, Post Criss Earth....because that's really the only way to truly fix things.


I mean the multiverse was created as a continuity solution...and getting rid of it got rid of a continuity solution. Was a mistake.

Plus they have this material they can reprint from those eras, and it gives them a heroic presence in every modern era of time.

I notice a strategy Didio is quite fond of, using old characters in a maxi series and then printing up a bunch of specials or Trades on the original material featuring these characters, as a tie-in or special, as their profile is being raised.

DC could make a boatload of money if they do that with Earth 1 and Earth 2, instead of just say, Kirby's Fourth World, like they have been doing recently in Countdown, DOTNG and Final Crisis.


They're bringing the multiverse back, they just aren't going to do it all at once because there is more money in doing it this way.

I'd be willing to bet if 52 hadn't been so successful, Final Crisis would have appeared in 2007. Countdown was just filler before they did it...they gave us a taste of the multiverse but didn't reveal too much of it. And why would they reveal Earth 1 and Earth 2 are back, they needed to hold something back for the resolution of Final Crisis.

Basically they shoehorned an extremely good selling 104 issues of comics into the space between between Infinite Crisis and Final Crisis....and Didio's bosses probably love him for it. But now they are about to play their ace...


They are going to bring

Earth 1 back.
Earth 2.
Post Crisis.
Earth S
Earth 5 etc...

All of them back IMO.

Plus all those else worlds Earths.


I do think think they are about to bring back the original versions of some Earths...I really think that's what's going to happen by the end of Final Crisis. They'll be new worlds of course...but why wouldn't they keep the old ones as well, if only for the reprint tie-ins. And it's not like there is a shortage of Earths either.

DC might get creatively stupid often, but they haven't stsyed in business for 70 something years by being economically stupid, and to not capitalize on the repint potential in Earth 1 and 2 stories...would be economically stupid.

They are all coming back IMO.

I'll believe it when I see it,after the last twenty years of being Byrned I will not get my hopes up,but if it DC does restore the Classic Legion with most of it's history intact,I'll be jumping for joy.

You like corn syrup then?

As long as it's high-fructose.

No, the article I read at Newsarama specifically quoted him as saying there's be just one.

Ahh...ok. I was referncing this quote from the Philly-con:


I guess there is more than one interpretation there.


I still say they could in effect merge 3 Legions in this story, and still have other versions of the Legions throughout the multiverse.


See they can't really merge Legions from alternate Universes, unless they do away with the multiverse...so these 3 if merged will definitely have to be in the future of the same Earth IMO.


At the same time...if there is a multiverse, there will definitely be Legion in the future of some of those worlds.


And logically...if say, the Action Legion is a part of the New Earth Continuity, then characters like Bart Allen that are in the New Earth Continuity will almost certainly be around in the future of the Action Legion.


I still think that this main Earth is some kind of a template...and these Legions will be both alternate futures of new earth, as well as existing versions of the Legion on alternate earths.

That pretty much satisfies everyone...they can also attempt some kind of a unification of the fan base on one Earth...


Plus they can get their killing in and still have relatively unscathed versions of the same Legions on other worlds.

Makes sense to me.

I have a hard time believing there will be only be one Legion in the multiverse though at the end of this story...even if there is only one Legion at the end of this story.


The thing is...Johns is writing this, and Johns approach to continuity is that, EVERYTHING happened and EVERUTHING exists...that's why he pulls these sorts of things off so well.

I guess it's possible. At one time, I though it would be cool to have a Legion of Legions -- putting together a specific group -- pulling from different versions of the Legion for each mission. But that would get too complicated, and most readers already find LSH too complicated.

Here's DiDio's comments regarding Legion of 3 Worlds:

Q: Will the Legion seen in Action be seen after Final Crisis?

DD: All questions will be answered in Legion of Three Worlds.

Q: How many Legions after Legion of 3 Worlds?

DD: One

Q: Will Bart Allen return?

DD: Next question.
Here's the interview:

http://www.newsarama.com/comics/080621-HeroesDCNAtion.html

My take:

1) Action Legion is going to officially be the "real" deal. I can't see any other way at this point for 3 reasons: Johns says he wants to write the original Legion and have fun with the rest; he is the guy responsible, with Morrison, to shape the post-FC DCU - and he is the one tying COIE with FC in terms of "time anomaly"; bottom-line, Action is by far the most successful relaunch of the Legion brand since TMK.
2) All other versions of LSH will be considered time anomalies or from different Earths. My guess is that the 52 worlds concept will be scraped in favour of more freedom (and I would tie it with the Kamandi/fire/tryptique references on FC - too long to mention here). That's why Didio can say there is only one Legion and the other 2 (for me, 3 - TMK and V3 will forever be as much the real thing as all others, even though they are being ignored) are going to be sad.

I do have an idea of how I would make all these different Earths work, solve all these time anomalies, add real chronology to the books and prepare DCU for eternity, but Dan would have to hire me first.

"Real" deal? Does that mean DC's giving what the fans want?

I see this as a goal to restore the Legion to former X-Menesque status. So far, they're on the right track with the crossovers and the hype, but in the all-important merchandising and external media, which benefited the X-Men enormously... all we've seen is a Johnny-come-lately animated series that came and went.

The Legion wouldn't have that much potential freedom for plotlines and story arcs if TMK actually remained. Though they make for quality storytelling, it says something when its co-writers were once contributors of Legion fanzines.

I've got a hunch that wedging Reboot and Threeboot into Legion continuity wasn't your idea, but time anomalies? If we can have mutual respect over the aforementioned, so should the issues that kept the Legion alive for the past decade-and-a-half (aka Waid's quick-relief marketing ploys). They brought back aspects of the Legion that were lost in translation, from perpetual youth to an unhealthy amount of douchebaggery.

Hence, if Legion is going to get Johns' famous Rebirth treatment, I'm happy for those fans who've been awaiting this for fifteen to 25 years, depending on the fanfare. But something from Ricardo's got me thinking... if the "mature reader book" might as well be the original, the "one for kids" would be "Ultimate Legion". Reimaginings of the Legion's younger years, anyone? Not just Reboot (and possibly Threeboot)... and remember, Jim Shooter just might retain his job by doing a reimagining of the Cockrum years. Or Levitz takes the helm.

Whichever case, "modern reimaginings" (which they were during time of creation) certainly sounds better than "time anomalies".

All I know is that the multiverse was created to solve continuity issues...and since they got rid of it, they have had nothing but continuity issues. Because all that stuff wasn't meant to be put on one Earth.


Create enough Earths to where everything exists...even if it's not something currently in publication, at least it'll still exist....and some will be pacified by that for the time being.

Matter Eater Lad was great...best part of the 5YG for me, and near I can tell he was theirs. The rest of it was Giffen. I don't think we ever saw what they were capable of as writers to tell you the truth...my hunch is they would definitely write a Legion you would have to have a lot of inside knowledge of the Legion to understand though.

I think the unification in one single Earth was a tentative in simplifying DCU, which never got anywhere, much the opposite.
Also, I think the concept of multiple Earths and timelines are perfectly viable nowadays, where readers are older than at that time. And it eliminates most of the problems of continuity and gives enough freedom for writers to work upon.

And, in my opinion, time travel is as much a problem at DCU these days as chronology.

It's not going to be X-Menesque. It's going to be Johns' level of success, at most. I don't have the slightest illusion Legion will ever become the title it was in the 80s.

What is the problem with that? They are writers. Levitz took the book to the top of sales in the 80s by being a contributor to Legion fanzines... Good writers can write in canon, as Johns has proved by eliminating the hack job Ron Marz did with Green Lantern. Reboot gave us freedom... and a bunch of uninspiring generalist superhero pap.

Perpetual youth is a bad idea in comics, no matter what you say, IMHO. I am fine by working off-chronology, but I like the idea to see Kingdom Come, JSA, Tiny Titans... Also, by changing TMK, Magic Wars, Reboot and 3boot into "time anomalies" or "parallel Earths", it solves the main problem - which is giving any sense to the return of the pre-Crisis team. And Legion premise was always for me perpetual evolution (heroes get old), never perpetual infantility (Reboot).
[/QUOTE]

Some people have mentioned that there is a possibility of incorporating Reboot and Threeboot as pre-Legion books (like Early Years), but for me it adds to even more confusion.

I don't see a problem in "time anomalies" as much as I don't see a problem in "parallel Earths". I do expect all Legions to be incorporated somehow, but not as the "real" timeline. My feeling is that Final Crisis will sort-of wipe everything to the status quo pre-Crisis for DC in general, with the Legion of Super-Heroes as the pinnacle of what went wrong (arguably, this was the book that suffered the most with the original Crisis).

And Penalty Killer, you don't think this Johns' LSH will be "mature reader book" at all. The mature book reader was my idea to bring back the TMK level of quality and profoundity/profanity. Hardly the kind of book Geoff does.

For the "co-writers were contributors to fanzines" part, I meant the Bierbaums, not Levitz. Along with Keigh, the three did put a different spin into the Legion, deviating it from the momentum brought on a decade earlier (which was inevitable, abd I don't blame them but the ones above in DC), thus trading the potential for well, raw quality.


Final Crisis wiping everything to the status quo? Even a sort-of? Maybe for the company's respective franchises (Holy Trinity, GL, Flash, League), once again, though that wouldn't do much to restore DC to its former glory. But until Lo3W is released, it's yet to be seen or accurately predicted as to what shape or form the Legion would be restored back to.


And, yeah, thanks for the correction. I assumed that the "mature reader book for us oldies" would be a regular, non-kids-pandering Legion series to accommodate what the "oldies" generally wanted, and since not every oldie was for TMK, I took it that you just meant the seventies Legion and onward. But interpreting the "one for the kids" as an Ultimate-esque Legion should make a bit more sense, considering that was Marvel's primary intention for the Ultimate line.

From Lying in the Gutters

More San Diego creator talk tells me that the Jim Shooter’s "Legion Of Super Heroes" title ends with issue #50.

It will be replaced with a new Tony Bedard LSH project, and the Levitz/Giffen Legion project will also see publication.

I'm also told that the junior book "The Legion Of Super Heroes In The 31st Century," is also coming to an end with issue 20.

The future seems an uncertain place.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=17578

I hope Tony Bedard is a Pre-Crisis Legion fan,Because with Shooter gone,Thats the only Legion that will get my money from now on.

No LSH book has ended before #200 in the past twenty years or so... and only one went beyond issue one hundred, with the help of the previous era's non-canonical run. Hmmm... Seems like Legion issue numbers are the best examples of perpetual youth.

Not that surprisingly though. The Bedard one is a bit interesting... is Threeboot going to limbo or what??? And does Johns still have a place in Legion mythos? Only one way to find out.

So this possible merging or multi-verse Legion means that somewhere there's a Legion with

Powergirl, Andromeda, and Dream Girl?

Be still be heart.


That is my heart, right???

Bedard? I think I will pass. This is DC making sure Legion going out with a fizzle. If the problem was sales, this is surely a shot in the head. Moreover, his fill ins were really boring, typical superhero pap, even worse than Waid's last issues.
Give it to Keith Giffen - at least a top writer would do something better saleswise (because as much as Bedard can be the very next Neil Gaiman, he won't sell more than Shooter). I bet the new project will be called "The New Search for Cosmic Boy". Yawn...


Hopefully, Levitz/Giffen project will save our souls.

Check this out,and I started a new post for this topic,as I think there will be a need for it.

http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=217664