Saturday, July 26

5:00-6:00 Legion of Super-Heroes 50th Anniversary— Fifty years ago, a trio of new super-heroes appeared on the cover of Adventure Comics no. 247. That humble beginning spawned the first great super team of the Silver Age of Comics: The Legion of Super-Heroes. Set in the 30th and 31st centuries of a DC Universe that may—or may not—happen, the Legion captured the hearts and minds of comic fans right from the start. Celebrating the 50th anniversary of this legendary team are DC’s president and publisher—and Legion writer—Paul Levitz, who moderates the panel featuring fellow Legion storytellers Geoff Johns, Colleen Doran, and Comic-Con special guests Mike Grell and Keith Giffen. Room 5AB


My comment: no Shooter??? He will be there and he won't be invited? This is really disrespectful, IMO.

Just wait until the LMB unleashes itself at this panel. I make no promises about not embarrassing you all with my sordid ways

Geoff Johns = Legion Story Teller?

I don't think that applies so much.

Geoff is to write a very critical Legion story, thus I think it applies to this panel.

To whoever goes there: please, someone should stand up and say how great TMK was, and stop all this defensive crap about the best LSH run ever! It seems that every LSH panel Keith is obliged to feel discomforted about his tenure. People seem to be happier with Legion On The Run, according to these panels. This always pisses me off!

And, again, TPTB must correct the fact that Shooter was not invited to this panel. It is unacceptable.

Ricardo,

You are making an assumption that Jim Shooter is being kept from this panel. Looking at the Comic Con web site, Jim Shooter is not listed as a guest. It is possible that for reasons of his own, Mr. Shooter is not attending the con and thus not going to be on the panel.

If Jim not going then why not invite Frances Manapul? is he going to comics convention too?

I don't see him on the Special Guest list.

However, neither is Colleen Doran or Paul Levitz. (Although Paul as president of DC is there as part of DC)

Even if the person is going to be at the Con, it is pure speculation that they are being kept off the panel.

And from my experience at con panels, too many people on the panel does not work.

Someone's gotta ask Giff where EDE and I can e-mail a sample Matter-Eater Lad script to! Cobie I'm looking at you! Oh, and tell Giff I heart him!

Someone needs to ask Paul Levitz if he ever thinks about writing the Legion again one day.

And if he does tell him to give Kieth Giffen a job doing Ambush Bug.

I thought I had read somewhere he would be participating in the SDCC this year, but I might be wrong. However, I still find it strange.

On another topic, wasn't Keith Giffen a DC Comics exclusive? Why is he listed as freelancer?

"12:00-1:00 50 Years of Gay Legion of Super-Heroes Fandom— The fiftieth anniversary of the Legion of Super-Heroes gives the LGBT (lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender) fans a reason to celebrate. Join Prism Comics president Roger Klorese, Interlac APA central mailer and HIV + ME cartoonist Chris Companik, and a "legion" of pros and fans in a freewheeling discussion to find out, among other things, which male Legionnaire coveted the name "Light Lass," how Matter Eater Lad consumed whole planets without gaining an ounce, and why removing the pink from Cosmic Boy's costume made him look somehow...gayer. And, what's up with Element Lad?"

For a whole hour? Now that's interesting.

And no Shvaughn Erin???

I think I'm going to have to go to this one, just for curiosity's sake.

I hope someone brings up the issue of Saturn Girls wearing of mens briefs. They don't show it, but we all know....

and the Ayla-Vi relationship....it's so sorely missed!!

Sprock, what about the obvious? Like reboot Lyle? And Brainy and Supes in the cartoon was a big hint...

I shall try!

This is of course after I ask Paul Levitz when he thinks Ayla became such a crazy nut-case that she decided it would be amusing to push Magnetic Kid towards suicide? My goal is to ask questions no one in the room would get and somehow they make it on like newsarama or something and some of you read them and start giggling hysterically!

and what about Mekt during 5YG/Legion on the Run?

Do they have any plan in who will be gay in the current Legion? think Jim will introduce or out any characters?

i have a suggestion.

Hell, might as well be all or none. I count 42 possible pairings just for Threeboot.

Has anyone considered that maybe the reason Shooter isn't doing these cons is because generally, when he opens his mouth, someone gets offended?

He's kind of frank, brutally honest and he's very opinionated which is why he has found himself at odds with so many people, and rubbed so many folks the wrong way, and you know, I don't think he's ever really intended to piss people off, he's just honest and forthcoming...and this time around he might just want to shut up and write comics and work his way back into the Industry. And stay out of trouble.

He's making himself a hard target...and still trouble has come looking for him because of his rep...if he was giving lots of interviews at these cons, it might be worse. I really think all the guy wants to do is write comics and be in the industry again...and he'd probably like to get futher writing assighments.


Everyone assumes he's pissed off because he's silent...folks, when Shooter is pissed off...he's never silent, he's never ever silent about it. HE's not silent when he's not pissed off, but he's definitely not silent when he is pissed off.

If he was so pissed off he threw away perhaps his last chance in the Industry...believe me, he'd be telling us exactly why and who is to blame for it....he always has before.

Not yet the LSH panel, but on the Superman panel, there are some hints on the Legion situation. I am not sure I like them. From Newsarama:


Can you use the Superboy name? Johns: "Superboy-Prime's a different character, we're okay with him. We can't really talk about it, though, that's more of a DC question."

Are you going to play up the relationship between Superman and Superboy-Prime? Johns: 'That's the central focus point of 'Legion of Three-Worlds.'"

My Comment: That explains why it hasn't gone through Legion editorial in the first place. It's a Superman history with a bunch of colorful characters just to give it a hunch.

What's happening with Christopher Kent? Johns: "He was always meant to be around for a finite time. We have plans for him."

After Legion of Three Worlds, are we going to see the Pre-Crisis Legion? Johns: "I can't answer that question. I wish I could."

My comment: I think Geoff would like to work with the Classic Team, but DC might not want to deal with that. But I am feeling more and more that 3boot is somehow here to stay. Wild guess now, but I kind of sense some disappointment on Johns - he seems to have "lost" the battle for the Superboy & LSH title.

One more tidbit from CBR:

CBR News knew we wouldn't get a true answer, but still we asked, "Will DCU post-'Flash: Rebirth' have room for both Barry Allen and Wally West," Johns responded, "That's a question that's going to be answered in the book. I don't want to get into it yet but I will say there is stuff happening that will feed into 'The Flash: Rebirth' that I am working on right now in both 'Rogues' Revenge' and 'Legion of Three Worlds.'"

I was not present, but apparently a number of Legion fans spoke out at the Superman 70th Anniv panel asking about Legion, and a few more at today's general DCU panel, asking about the future of the Action Legion, and both times responses directed fans to wait for L3W.

Either they are waiting for Sat to make any big announcements, or they are just being tight-lipped. The lack of any Legion freebies at the DC table suggest we just won't get any news at the Con at all.

Didio might have been toying with us, but he did ask if we'd like to see Geoff Johns and Paul Levitz writing a Legion comic. The crowd went wild with enthusiasm. Didio really was asking how we felt about things today at the DC Nation panel, so maybe he was testing the waters.

NO LEGION FREEBIES???
AAAArrrGggghhhh!!!

CBR said a Levitz/Giffen collaboration was mentioned. Were thus both mentioned?

A John's and Levitz Legion would be a dream come true.

DC has put out on their website a podcast of this panel; 51 minutes worth. Here's a direct link to the MP3 file (you may want to right-click and Save Link As):
Direct Link

And here's a link to their podcasts page if you want to listen to other panels.

Thanks Pete, enjoyed it greatly, I just wish someone asked them how important do they think the Legion being tied to Superboy/Superman is.

We quickly ran out of time as this panel was rushed. And we didn't even get a presentation.

Personally I was extremely disappointed. This should have been in a bigger room and two hours long with many more creators like Mark Waid, Francis Manapul, John Livesay, Jeff Moy, Chris Bastista, James Pascoe, Sanford Greene, and anybody else I may have forgotten.

Everyone of them knows it. Everyone of them would fix it if they could...except for maybe Grell who wasn't really Superboy fan...which is ironic because he draws the best version of the character IMO.


Check out the comments about the Hourglass issue and it's pretty obvious...especially on the part of Giffen and Mary Bierbaum.


Basically it's bigger than those guys and they can't talk about it due to the litigation.

The question I would have most wanted to see asked is which pre crisis writer or artist they would have wanted to work with the most...


I'd have really liked to have heard Giffen's answers to both writer and artist. I'm curious if he'd pick Shooter as writer.

It sucks that Shooter isn't on any of these panels dammit.

It was awesome that Mike Grell participated...that was a sound for sore ears hearing him talk about the Legion.

Ohmigod, who is that ANNOYING GIRL who was talking about the X-Men?!

...oh, wait.....

Not at the same time. I could have SWORN I heard Johns and Levitz being asked about. In future DC panels I attended, Keith Giffen made it abuundantly clear that he wants to do something on Legion with Paul. He gently prodded Paul at the Legion's 50th about it, but Paul wasn't going to have that discussion when the pressure was on.

I'll have to go through my notes, but I could swear that someone said Johns would be doing some sort of Legion writing about The Legion of 3 Worlds storyline.

I almost asked today. "Just how many Legion books can we expect after the Legion of 3 Worlds is over?" I knew they wouln't answer it, but I wanted to ask it.

At Giffen's spotlight panel, someone asked whether he'd be doing any Legion work with Levitz. His response was something along the lines of "if Paul doesn't want to do something, he'll say 'no' pretty definitely and he hasn't yet to the possibility of doing some Legion writing."

At the Legion anniversary panel, he implied that all it will take is some time in his schedule, which is not very likely, but not an impossibility either.

listening to the audio, i was super disappointed that there weren't more contemporary creators represented here. at least someone from the reboot age!

holy crap, if any of you were the people asking questions (i'm trying not to read these replies carefully because i don't want to know), next time you ask a question keep the "about me" part to a minimum, or actually NOT THERE AT ALL.

i was cringing a lot when fans felt the need to insult other runs of the legion in order to compliment whomever or cry about how the legion gets restarted. the one woman who said "i hope it never gets restarted EVER AGAIN". really lady? really? wow. because that would be the worst thing ever.

it's pretty obvious that a lot of these writers KNOW EACH OTHER. so when you say "GOD I HATED THAT ONE LEGION" you realize you're insulting someone THEY KNOW? possibly one of their FRIENDS? or insulting someone ON THAT PANEL? it makes perfect professional sense to me that the legion gets restarted because writer A doesn't want to, as one creator put it, "dismantle" what came before, they want to make something new and they don't want to mess up their FRIEND'S or COLLEAGUE'S story.

man, i thought this panel would be more about loving the legion in all its incarnations, but i'm kind of disappointed that so many VOCAL fans base their love on a hate on anything "not their favorite legion".

some tips:

think of your question beforehand, there is nothing wrong with writing it down, actually, it's GREAT and you'll actually ask what you meant to.

try to stay positive, do not insult something at length or talk about how much you hate X, Y, Z. just rambling about how much you hate something is not a question.

do not talk about yourself ad nauseum. you're at this panel. they KNOW you love the legion. they know.

actually ASK a question.

if you have something critical to ask, think of a polite way to ask it. remember that there should be a QUESTION involved here. instead of "I HATED THIS I DIDN'T BUY COMICS BECAUSE OF THIS", maybe "were there any plot points you wish you could have finished up before you left?".

also, try to put yourself in their shoes. remember that comic books is also a job and the reason for X is not always a giant crazy conspiracy theory. sometimes it really is as simple as "we thought it would work and it didn't! sorry!"

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ughghghh! that said... biblical length post will end with how touched i was by the story one creator told on his attempt to put in a black character. god, he sounded so sad i almost cried. just thinking about how they'd get books returned unopened from the south?! that's so crazy! ahhh!! poor man!!

The panel was a tad low-key, to put it politely. Maybe everybody was tired by the end of the day. I also think they should have had every possible creator involved in the book there up on the podium, even if just for a few minutes, to acknowledge their contribution.

Personally, I didn't really mind the questioners talking about how much they loved the Legion; it was supposed to be a Legion love fest after all, and the DC guys weren't going to spend the time giving out any new information (although Johns did throw us a morsel with the Luornu bit - and I didn't know that "Flying Buttress" was originally a nickname for 5YL Andromeda, heehee!).

I didn't ask questions, partly because all my questions were sort of downers, and it didn't seem like the time and place for that. One question would have been why there wasn't a Legion presence at the DC booth (not necessarily freebies, but posters on the walls would have been nice). We did have the Alex Ross cover (and a floor-to-ceiling reproduction at his booth) and Legion fan art in the convention booklet,but it seemed there was more Legiony stuff two years ago with promos for the animated show. Maybe my perspective is all out of whack, being one of those super-devoted Legion cranks - but the number of people attending the panel (even if it was just to see Geoff Johns face again) suggest that the 50th anniversary could have merited more acknowledgement, on the floor, from DC themselves.

I personally was suprised that there wasn't more official DC celebration regarding the Legion's 50th. Yes, we had a lovely Jeff Moy/Cary Carini piece over in artist's alley, but there was no official DC swag. I speculate that they really, REALLY don't want to give anything away on the post Legion of 3 Worlds Legion.

I wanted to ask how many titles were spinning out of Legion of 3 Worlds, but I was pretty sure they were not going to answer it.

From the sound of things, I'm convinced they are very purposefully keeping the LSH's future under tight wraps, which itself will-- and already has-- promote a whole lotta speculatin' and generate/ignite fan interest!

Yes.
I myself have concluded that the "merged Legions" theory is deliberate misinfo to keep us guessing, and (perhaps cynically) to make whatever is planned that much more palatable. I am also considering the Shooter rumors in a similar light until proven otherwise.

There were some questions about Legion on the Geoff Johns panel, so you should all read it here .

Here is my favorite part:
Will "Legion of Three Worlds" also include alternate continuities like the Giffen era? "George wants to draw every single Legionnaire ever," Johns said, so the answer seems to be yes.

I personally thought she was awesome!

Well as soon as i can contact that guy that i filmed the pannel for i'll try to see if Gary can upload it onto the site for folks to watch.
and on a side note,..i ran into that guy that Giffen made the "Santa Claus" comment too and told him he really should've kicked keith's arse for that comment!

I like that Tom and Mary showed up as fans (they even had to wait in line to get in), but were then invited up on stage to participate. Whether you liked what they did on the Legion or not, they are former Legion pros, and it would have been disrespectful to leave them in the audience.

I also like that Mike Grell doesn't try to disassociate himself from the Legion. Let's face it: he's a big star, but when he's asked to do a Legion panel, he shows up. When he's asked to do a Legion cover, he does it. He doesn't diss Legion fans; in fact, he does just the opposite. Mike's a class act!

I also liked when Mike Grell talked about Dave Cockrum, and when Paul Levitz also spoke about Dave and E.Nelson Bridwell.

So you are saying Legion folks are a different bunch?
I always thought so... It doesn't surprise me that much. Not much than the religious following to a title that seems to be so far away from what it used to be to most of its readers...
By the way, any news on new Archive volumes?

Paul Levitz said that new archives are not being planned as they tend to be more expensive than the actual issues.

By the way, you can access the podlink of the panel through Pete Ross's link at the bottom of Page 2 of this thread.

Yeah they deserved to be up there...they were creators.

And their version of Matter Eater Lad is all time great Legion stuff.

It's funny because it seems like TMK feel like the backlash against their run is aimed directly at them...but really what made everyone mad was the retcons, and they just happen to be the face of the retcons, and I don't think they realize it.

Didn't Grell actually say in your book that if asked to do the Legion again he'd consider it, and if the circumstances were right he'd actually do it?

It's funny listening to Grell talk about the Legion, you can tell he hated the workload, and doesn't really understand why that era of his work is considered by so many people to be his best. I don't know what to tell him either...he drew the iconic version of the Legion to me. It's intended as a compliment.

I wonder if he looked up at Alex Ross' Legion drawing that was all over the con and realized...you know, that's my version of the Legion he's immortalized there.

I wonder if he knows that's one of the works for which Ross has kept the original for himself.


Grell's Legion is indelibly and for all time burned into my mind as the iconic Legion, and it was even before Ross did his litho. It was his Legion that was on the cover of all those tabloids when I became a Legion fan. It is awesome to see him sitting on a Legion panel...even if he doesn't really understand that his version of the Legion is to many Legion fans the definitive version.

Did anyone scan this Alex Ross cover? I haven't seen it.

Here's what I was talking about:

[img]http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1200/958180659_e286cf5507.jpg?v=0[/img]

The actual Litho:




What indentifies that Legion as Grell's and not say...oh that of Dave Cockrum, are Cosmic Boy and Tryroc's costumes...actually that Tyroc is even in it.

Very cool indeed. Hopefully, they will release a clean digital version of it somewhere.

I fully agree to all points, Glen.

I was among those who began the appluase when they were added, and I'm pleases so many joined in.

And Grell has always been a class act. Say what you will about his ability to meet deadlines, but in terms of both ability and human character he is in a category with Eisner.

Also, regarding the Alex Ross poster, the presence of Dawnstar, Night Girl's minimax outfit, and Karate Kid's Bruce Lee outfit (first appearance S/LSH 209?). Also perhaps Wildfire's "framed", not bubble-chinned, face plate (talk about AR!). It's very much Grell's Legion. While I prefer Cockrum's art, and his costume designs, Grell took the Legion to an even greater level of distinctiveness and sensuality. Grell was one of the highlights for the podcast for me, so gracious to Dave in particular. I wish he could have talked a bit more about the look he gave the Legion, and why.

FYI, the Alex Ross book "Mythology" at least has a nice high-quality print of the Legion poster in it. I bought an extra copy of the book and disassembled it for some artwork in my son's room.

Actually Karate Kid's Bruce Lee outfit first appeared in Superboy 193, it was one of Cockrum's first designs for the Legion characters to make it in the book, he later changed his mind and put Val back in his old costume, luckily Grell brought it back in S/LSH 209.

You know what I think every time I see that panel of Matter-Eater Lad colored red? Dark Matter-Eater Lad!

D'oh! I forgot to check the rest of the forums for commentary. Here\'s my wrap-up of Legion-related panels (where I saw many LegionWorlders). I wish the panel had been longer, of course, and I was a little surprised that Mark Waid wasn't there.

I was surprised to learn that the symbol on Shrinking Violet's green uniform is supposed to be an "S" and a "V"... I thought it was just an abstract shape not unlike the symbol adopted by the Artist Formerly Known as the Artist Formerly Known as Prince.

Discretion is the better part of valor!

or should that be discretion is the better part of M'Onel?

I love learning new things about old stories such as this!

Another Grell revelation: Science Police Officer Dvron ("The Rookie Who Betrayed the Legion") was supposed to be black. Editor Murray Boltinoff told Grell, "You can't do that"--because he was concerned about a negative portrayal of a person of color! (Dvron does betray the Legion, though with good reason, and he turns out a hero in the end.)

For that matter, the discussion about why there were no black Legionnaires until Tyroc was illuminating. It wasn't, Levitz (?) said, that DC didn't want to do black characters; it was that they were afraid of doing it wrong and receiving nasty letters.

They were also afraid of losing distribution in the South.

Jim Shooter said that's why Mort told him he couldn't make Ferro Lad black...

I liked the fans' "about me" bits. Adds to the sense of community in Legion fandom. I don't think that the "why did the Threeboot happen?" question was out of line. It's a very legitamate one. Why indeed?

I think criticism of creative decisions and decisions is not unreasonable. It's when it becomes criticism of the actual people who make them that it becomes inappropriate. I don't think any of the questioners at this panel crossed this line, personally.