DC has been teasing their new Earth 2 and there are already clear differences between this one and the one we saw before - most notably the presence of the Trinity. Today we learned this about Wonder Woman:
“Due to the events that open the saga of Earth 2, Wonder Woman is already the last Amazon of this world and she is determined to avenge her sisters...at whatever cost,” said Earth 2 writer James Robinson.

From Robinson, I expect she'll be screaming "JUSTICE!!" a lot...

Every month the new issue of Titans came out, when Eric Wallace was writing, and I read it, it felt like someone would stick their hand in my chest and tear off a part of my hope for humanity with broken, jagged, fingernails. I didn't think I would feel that way again after Titans ended.

Clearly I was wrong.

I think fan of the JSA, and a lot of people on this board, are going to be pretty bummed out and dissapointed by all these teasers.

Though it will probably sell well.

I'm avoiding any spoilers so I don't start pre-judging it before it hits. Hopefully it is more JSA centric than it looks and DC is just high profiling the trinity to get people interested.

So far all I am seeing from the previews is Superman, Wonder Women, and Batman which to me means this is going to more of a dark take on the modern DCU than something like the old Earth 2. I really hate everything I have seen in regards to Power Girl basically just being turned into Supergirl.

I was excited when I first read about this, but the more I hear the less I care. Right now its not even on my pull list.

Yeah, I've not added Earth 2 to my pull list as I originally planned. I'll still pull World's Finest to see what Paul's got in mind, but the teasers for the actual Earth 2 book are a real big turn off ("Who will Batman kill to get his daughter back?", "What would make Superman murder?"). These are exactly the stories I don't want to see.

To top it off Robinson is writing it, which is a strike against for me. I know he has his fans, but I've never liked his writing, including the Starman stuff, so if the concept isn't there, I've got no reason to try this.

I loved his Starman, Golden Age, Leave it to Chance and a few others. His only real flop to me was his screenplay for LXG. So I'm baffled his Earth-2 is so far off-mark. At the time, I even thought of Starman as the closest thing to a continuation of old Earth-2 as we would ever see again.

sigh

To be fair, how are those blurbs any different from what we saw on comics in the 70's and 80's?

I'm hoping (and I am often accused of being a Polyanna), that these ads are what they're using to attract new readers and the book will be more like what we would like it to be, or will be before long.

I hope.

The golden age Superman killed a LOT back in the early days...

The giant breasts accented by the giant boob window are gone, for the moment.
I like THAT.

Does it bother anyone else that this is reading like Cry for Justice? And it's being written by the same man?

Lengths to go to protect your child.

Lengths to go to avenge your dead civilization.

Lengths to go to teach Superman to kill.

Yes, it bothers me very much.

I've always felt Robinson was overrated, but his seeming (emphasis on SEEMING) embrace in recent years of the Didio aesthetic has been nothing short of pitiful.

Apparently, his most loyal fans are still enjoying The Shade.

Me, I'm going to look through the first issue of Earth 2 at the store, give it as fair a chance as I can, and see where I go from there. But I won't deny that I'm pessimistic.

There's no denying it. The 90s are coming back in full force.

How do you guys have such memories?
You were hardly born in the 90's, Sark!
And you can't be much older, Fanfic!
Amazing.

All the bad things about the 90s, yes, but unfortunately little or nothing of the good things about the 90s.

aha! Fanfie, you are now on record as admitting there were some good things about the 90s! Gotcha!

Actually, I'm about a full generation older than Sark.

In comics, yes, but very few in music. IMHO, of course.

You and I, we could be Sarky's PARENTS!

38?
That's my youngest son's age.
:rolleyes:

You were in your late teens, early twenties in the 90's, so, now I understand your intensity.

Kent,

Candle, those were indeed wild years for me; I'm just glad I've been able to put them behind me and channel that intensity into more productive things.

This might be a good time to drop a hint that the project alluded to in my current signature has more than a little to do with the Earth 2 stories of yore by Paul Levitz and Roy Thomas.

I've an idea for a JSA fanfic, but not till LoC is done.

I promise to get back to my 5YL Legion stuff this year as well.

...and it will eventually include some E2 characters...of a sort.

Well, no Wally or Donna.

http://www.newsarama.com/comics/james-robinson-describes-earth-2.html

Wow, I can't imagine Jay fans will like that redesign.

At first I thought "what that helmet", then I thought "isn't that Well Spoken Sonic Lightning Flash"?

Wow. I don't like what I'm seeing about this series at all.

I am not opposed to Robinson designing a new parallel world. I just wish it was not being called Earth-2. I know Earth-2. This ain't it.

*poof*

...I feel really bad for Nicola Scott at this point.

Robinson says in the interview released today that "this isn't the Justice Society".

That's all I needed to hear to completely eradicate ALL of my pre-launch excitement.

Amen to that, Kent.

And, like Sarky, I feel really bad for Nicola Scott. This should have been a time for celebration, with a female artist getting an A-List team book for the first time. Instead, it's all starting to look more like a trainwreck waiting to happen.

Well, I'm pretty sure Nicola Scott understood the pitch going in and wasn't some kind of victim here, guys, so feeling bad for her seems a bit over the top, eh?

Now, though, we know why this book was called "Earth Two" and not "JSA". I'm still gonna give it a try. Robinson is always at his best when given some space to do his own thing. If I don't like what I see, I'll drop it like a hot potato like I do pretty much anything (other than LSH) that doesn't do much for me.

Lardy, I supposed I did overreact, but I think it is possible that the "meat" of the book may have changed during the voyage from Point A to Point B. Nicola might have thought it was going to be more like the old-school Earth 2 or even the old-school (Goyer/Johns era) JSA.

I'm starting to get the same feeling in my gut that I got just before the last time I quit buying new comics for over ten years. In fact, it was seeing a Justice Society book on the racks a few years ago that got me interested in buying comics again. Maybe it's time to find something else to spend my money on.

You should spend your money on Atomic Robo, which is better than anything DC is publishing.

I guess getting back to the 1960s context of Earth-2 having a 20-year head start over Earth-1, some of what he is doing makes sense - drawing from a little of old Earth-2 with some 1990ish 'grim and gritty, like Watchmen, but without the substance.'

Indeed, even in the late 70s/early 80s, until right before All-Star Squadron, there did seem to be a contradiction of the 20-year rule with WW2 - the Levitz origin was clearly WW2, yet other stories adered to the 20-year rule. In Detective 500, for instance, the lead story is set on the 20th anniversary of the Waynes' death and the 40th of the Earth-2 Waynes' death; Batman and Robin go to another Earth to save that world's Waynes. That story put the E-2 Waynes' too close to WW2 for Batman to have been in a wartime story.

So I guess, upon further reflection, I am just put out that I never got the chance to see Earth-2 done anything remotely close to how I would do it. I do hope Robinson's project does turn out to be just as exciting as I found Earth-2 to be in the late 70s and early 80s. Maybe someday I'll read the trades.

I miss the original Earth-2. Do you? If so, then let's talk about it right here.

Well, this is a fustercluck, isn't it? Was anyone clamouring for post-apocalyptic Young JSA starring Widower Superman, Last Amazon Wonder Woman and Thomas Wayne?

[And a REALLY, REALLY ugly redesign for Jay Garrick]

They needed at least a 20 year span for E2's super-history. Yoking it to the same "Five Year Life" as the DCnU is... yeah...

I suspected that was you!!

The one and only!

It's as much for discussing our fave "official" JSA stories as it is about my "unofficial" JSA stories.

Every new announcement I see makes me more and more glad that I dropped DC Comics completely. They honestly seem to be determined to tell the kinds of stories and create the kind of universe that is the exact opposite from what I want in my super-hero comics. Not to mention the eye-sore of looking at all those ugly costume redesigns.

I honestly feel that completely ending my relationship with that company has been the best decision I've made in a long time, both for my wallet and my blood pressure.

I'm actually surprised that so many posters here haven't also dropped them, because, other than a few bright spots (e.g. Swamp Thing, Batwoman, Flash, etc.), I see so little about the DCnU that appeals.

Wow, that Jay Garrick redesign is ugly. Makes me even more worried about the Alan Scott redesign. (which is funny considering Alan's original costume is red, green and purple...)

Polyanna is starting to lose her optimism.

This is kind of like trying to pass South Park off as "Peanuts".

Oh my god! They killed Pigpen! You bastards!

Sorry, but you are not allowed to lose ypour optimism or hope. Someone has to be the cheerful and happy one ... and YOU have been appointed. Now do your job or I'll push you out of a tree!

*poof*

All I've really been doing is complaining on here, huh?

By my comment about Nicola Scott, I'm regarding Mauro Cascioli and how his gorgeous artwork is now forever tied to one of the worst stories ever printed in comics. Regardless of whether or not Miss Scott signed on to Earth-2 because she wanted to, I've made judgements that Earth-2 is going to wind up like Cry because of "how far heroes will go" being a general tagline. And it's being written by the same man who wrote Cry. If Earth-2 genuinely does go the way of Cry for Justice, Miss Scott's going to have to deal with that black mark for a long time. I know I can't stand Cascioli's artwork at this point because it's too great a reminder (some said for Geraldo Borghes and Fabrizio Fiorentino after their respective work on Rise and Titans).

In views of constructive criticism, I do like Maguire's design of Supergirl, even if it takes away Karen's originality and makes her solely a Supergirl from a parallel Earth. If I have to bring up the cleavage, I'll say this: at what point can we differentiate what is Karen genuinely being stronger for bearing her cleavage regardless of what people think about it, and what is shameless male justification for cheap thrills and boob jokes? Hearing someone like Geoff Johns or Jimmy Palmiotti rationalize that Karen is a strong woman because of her big boobs and because she's not afraid to show cleavage don't hold much ground because they're both men. But if Amanda Conner, the most iconic Power Girl artist, has no problem with her costume or the size of her breasts, I mean genuinely has no problem, I have no complaints. And now Karen has a costume that doesn't reveal her cleavage, though her breast size hasn't changed. Is Karen's chest size the sole, dominating factor in her strength, or should she be judged regardless of her breasts? Unless the actual Power Girl shows up in real life and gives her opinion on it, it'll always be up for interpretation.

I can't really say that any of Earth-2 genuinely clicks with me because I would rather be reading a fun comic and this, the main Earth-2 comic that is, doesn't look like it's shaping up to be one. I'm not interested in reading about what lengths heroes will go because that's been done so many times it's become a cliche. But I guess I shouldn't even bother making an argument if I've sworn to never buy anything James Robinson writes ever again.

I don't know if I'm going to buy, or at least try, World's Finest. I'll give it a look and see what I think.

Sark, I understand what you're saying about artists and their association with bad stories, but if I like an artist's style enough, I can forgive them if and when they move on to a project that's more to my liking. For example, Ivan Reis drew Blackest Night, the first issue of which I consider one of the most appalling pieces of trash to ever be published; I skipped the remainder of Blackest Night, and said no to Aquaman when it became apparent that Johns has become the proverbial leopard who can't change his spots. But if Reis were to, say, reunite with Dave Gibbons for another cosmic romp, I'd forgive and forget in an instant.

Similarly, if I hate Earth-2 as much as I'm expecting to, I won't read it beyond the first issue, but if Nicola Scott's next project is to my liking, I'll forgive and forget.

Of course, it's ulitmately your call what you yourself do, and I will respect your decision. To each their own.

At my comic shop, you can't just give a comic a look, since they're currently only buying, or mostly only buying, what's on order.

They've, the comic writers/rtists, have always explained that their women characters wear revealing clothes because of their 'strength' as women.


And a woman artist will draw what's assigned to her if she wants to work, so how she feels about how women are portrayed in comics doesn't matter in the finished product, imo.
The only difference may be that she'll draw the women less sexually posed and she may try to close up the 'windows' ever so slightly.

I'm not totally against sexiness.
I just want women characters not to be defined by it, for the most part.
Beauty is one thing, soft porn is another.

Blech.

Directed at DC, not any particular post on this thread.

Looks like the E2 characters will all be in their twenties. So, no Jade or Obsidian or Atom-Smasher or Star-girl or Brainwave, Jr. or Hourman/Liberty Belle or Cyclone or Tomcat... the list goes on.

Double Blech.

Agreed. This has to be THE single most disappointing re-interpretation EVER.

I ***MUCH*** prefer Post-Crisis to THIS... and that is something I *never* thought I'd say.

I'm still going to give it a whirl, if only to see what it actualy ends up being. Luckily the rest of the regurgitated DCU has lowered the bar enough that I'm not expecting much. Between Cyborg being a founding JLAer to no original Titans to no Donna Troy, I suppose I'm ready for anything.

The good thing is that I can always drop it. Kinda like the other 7 or 8 DC titles that I tried and dropped since the 52 debut.

What's the point of everyone being 20ish?
Is it that everyone has to be younger than Superman?
sigh

The thing that I liked best about JS was the legacy part, the older heroes training the kids coming up.

Fanfic Lady:

It's a great book, true to the feel of the Starman series, which I'm re-reading now, and it holds up well. Doesn't mean that I won't call out some of his work as bad if it's bad (e.g., Cry for Justice).

The Shade has been fantastic!

Meanwhile, Earth 2 sounds more and more like a run of the mill Elseworlds, and I gave up on those years ago.

Dosn't seem like much of an Earth 2, just a copy of the current DCU. Especially since it has the same marketing strategy ... with the release of the costume redesigns etc. ... (which don't seem that different)

p.s. The Shade is holding it down! One of the two DC titles I get!

Don't you EVER, EVER compare this to the Elseworlds. ;p

i'm so over the *timeline* ... no one cares .... we just want good stories.


With how dark this is sounding it seems more and more like a story about the Crime Syndicate of QWARD!

I'm reserving judgment until I see the first couple of issues. Starman is one of my all-time favorite series and if Robinson can bring those chops to bear on Earth-2, I'll be happy. However, his JLA was less than inspiring, so I'm a little less optimistic about his ability to manage a "team" book as opposed to one primarily focused on one character with a host of supporting characters. As stated above, Shade has been a delightful return to form for Robinson, very much in the vein of Starman, so that raises my expectations for the new series.

One thing that I find interesting is the way he appears to be looking at this world. In some ways, it does seem to be true to the earliest perspectives on some of these characters. In the earliest stories, Batman had no problem using deadly force. I don't remember Superman killing, but he also wasn't the moral paragon he turned into. While the new 52 books have been portraying him as more of a regular guy, I'm guessing that Robinson's book will show us a Kal-L that's more like Siegel and Shuster's earliest stories.

On a side note, I'm also looking forward to Levitz's Worlds' Finest series. Reading the interview with him on CBR makes the book sound very interesting.

I recently re-read what I consider to be Robinson's one unqualified masterpiece: the mini-series "The Golden Age."

Despite all my displeasure with what I've read of his work of the past few years, I enjoyed "The Golden Age" as much as I had in previous reads. And I think I know why: even though it had moments of darkness and violence, they never felt gratuitous or sensationalistic. In addition, there was a sense that Robinson was being himself, not trying to fit in with the new trends like his "JLA" and "Superman" felt; in those books, there was a cold detachment, like he couldn't invest any warmth, wit, or heart into the stories. The basic ideas of the "JLA" stories that he didn't get to tell were rather poignantly crammed into his final issue; they included potentially good stuff, like a war between Thanagar and Saturn -- but do I really believe that the execution would have done, pardon the pun, justice to the concepts? No, I do not.

As for his magnum opus "Starman", I like it but don't love it. I think overall it's an impressive achievement, but in my opinion it's got a lot of flaws which would take a whole separate thread to pick apart.

If Robinson is still capable of being himself in "Starman"-related projects like the "Shade" mini-series, that's all well and good, but personally, I find it rather sad that he has to keep returning to well-trod ground just to be himself.

I believe that all decent writers eventually reach a stage where they're veteran craftspeople rather than innovative up-and-comers. Lesser writers simply become hacks. Robinson, in my opinion, falls somewhere in the middle -- a craftsman when revisiting past glories, a hack on just about anything else.

I should add that I did have high hopes for both "Cry for Justice" and the "JLA" ongoing. Those expectations were, to say the least, not met.

But I'll still give the first issue of "Earth-2" a fair chance, and see where I go from there.

Got it. Read it. Liked it more than I thought I would. Willing to give this a true shot. Need to reread it to get into it a bit more.

Also really liked Worlds' Finest.

Both books have fantastic art going for them, no doubt about that. I like the way that the art split is being used in WF. One for now, and one for the past. Makes for a clean view of where the story is just by looking at it. George and Kevin are both doing great work here.

Nicola Scott did a fantastic job with Earth 2.

The new origin of Jays' powers make sense. I can accept that this is not the Earth 2 I grew up with and accept new takes on the characters. I've lived through how many Legions (some better than others) and a new DCU, I can handle this. Besides, I still have all those other stories to read and imaging where they would have ended up.

Something else else just occurred to me. I'm almost thankful now for the reboot. They had made such a mess of things in the old DCU, that at least now there is a chance to see some old characters (re-imagined or not) again.

I liked it and am waiting to see what the future holds for Earth 2. Still, this is not the Earth 2 I grew up with. These are not the heroes who fought in World War II. Further still the new DCU is not the DCU I grew up with. But I am enjoying it for the most part.

So it looks like <span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text"> the only heroes on Earth 2 were Superman, Wonder Woman, Batman, Robin, and Supergirl. But they will be getting some new ones soon. I did like the cameo of Al Pratt and I assume Roy Harper. </span></span>

Quis -

<span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">I thought it was a reference to Jim Harper, The Guardian. Unless I missed a first name in there. </span></span>

There's more than one Harper in the DCU, Quislet.

You and Sarcasm Kid are probably correct.

Thumbs up. The previews had me believing this was going to be a series about an alternate version of the trinity. Instead we got a high octane bait and switch. Excellent work by Scott. I'll be back next month.

hey! I actually liked both Earth 2 and World's Finest: Power Girl and Huntress!

Re: Earth 2
#1 was more of a setting the terrain issue ... but

<span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">it's a world withought the trinity (eventually)… and looks like Alan Scott and Jay Garrick will be two of the main characters! </span></span>

I enjoyed the bait and switch!

I picked it up at the store to skim through but Nicola Scott's work was so beautiful I didn't put it back on the shelf.

likewise for PG and Huntress ... I mean George Perez ...AND ... Kevin Maguire ! PG and Huntress drawn by Kevin Maguire ....

Anyway ... not wild about the new PG costume ... not that I would mandate a boob window but this one's not that great. IMO.

I loved Helena's Robin costume too!

Not so sure about the World's Finest story ... I liked it but .. <span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">I hope they get back to Earth 2 PRONTO!! </span></span>

but Paul Levitz seems to have really got the ladies personalities right!

and that PG and Huntress story was jam packed with story! same with Earth 2.

I'm almost shocked to say we didn't have any three page punching splashes ....


Not that it matters but ... I think Kevin Maguire actually out shown George Perez ?? shocking !

<span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">hopefully he gets to do all the future flashback stories</span></span>

These 2 books have doubled the amount of comics I get from DC!

(tripled rather since OMAC went down)

<span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text"> still very much over the "5 years ago" stuff ... we get it. does it really matter since it's an alternate universe? If the ladies do go back to Earth 2 I assume they'll try to go back in time to the moment they left anyway ... right? otherwise how could they stop Darkseid 5 years later ?? which they are planning to do ... </span></span>

So I bought this.


And it was surprisingly good. Still not a fan of using the Earth-2 name for it, but I definitely liked it. Looking forward to where it goes!

I grabbed it and enjoyed it, too. And I've got to say, Robinson got me more interested in this trinity than the one in the regular DCnU that's had eight months to gel. And Nicola Scott's art was great. I wish she and Ivan Reis could draw everything (with maybe a Phil Jimenez title here and there).

Of course, this book won't really be about the trinity, and I'm fine with that, too. I knew it going in (read an interview with Robinson). Plus, Jay is now from Lansing, Michigan. Go, Michiganders!!

Is it good for the Michigooses?

Watch it Povvie...yer surrounded by Michigan boys.

Didn't read it, because I'm not reading any genre comics at the moment, and despite the positive reviews, I'm glad I didn't.

<span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">So what exactly is that bait-and-switch? The Trinity getting killed off? If so, I don't see what's so clever about that. If I've misunderstood, feel free to correct me.</span></span>

That would be it. I didn't really see it as a b&s really, just a way to get to the beginning of the real story.

I'm not sure there was anything "clever" about it particulary. However, whereas much of what we'd heard about the title ahead of time suggested it would be focused on the rather unappealing concept of the "darker Trinity", the actual focus turns out tobe something much more interesting.

Mmmm...good point. I guess I just feel very jaded right now, as I elaborated on a few days ago in the "Am I Over Comic Books?" thread.

I got it yesterday and was pleasantly surprised. I dearly hope that the original JSA continuity will eventually be restored, but till then, I'm looking at this as a JSA Elseworlds.

Earth 2 #1 is simply wonderful, darlings!

I'm so glad I picked it up!

I enjoyed it for what it was... just efffin' beautifully drawn (for once Steppenwolf actually looked scary), and a well written elseworlds JSA. One that will go on being an elseworlds JSA for some time, but still an elseworlds. Quite possibly the one with the reversed gender Power Girl/Batwoman version, or something close to it.

Much better written than Robinson's JLA stuff, not as good as his starman or shade.

Robinson's definitely at his best focused on a single character with a big and diverse supporting cast, a la Starman or Shade, but Earth-2 was a lot of fun. I'm looking forward to seeing where it goes.

Have to say though, I enjoyed World's Finest more. Paul's writing here has much more energy than in Legion (unfortunately). With luck, some of that excitement will bleed over. Perez and Maguire's art was wonderful and the story setup opens a lot of opportunities. I predict I'll be following this one avidly.

And I loved PG's new costume. It's a nice match for the current Huntress outfit.

There's an article for Earth2 #4 cover ... Hawkgirl!!!! ... she looks cool ... nice helmet ... not liking the action movie guns.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=38543

from the article it seems she is Kendra ... and more 'two fisted' (more two fisted then Kendra? )

Maybe we will see JADE! and Obsidian!

nah .....

Interesting. I'm getting a bit of "Northwind" vibe from her as well.

Hmmm Is it my imagination or is Kendra being coloured a darker hue than she used to be in that pic? And her hair seems to be dreadlocked? I wonder if they've changed her race. The original JSA certainly was lacking in non-Caucasian members so they needed to do something to diversify this modernised version of the team.

I think I really like the costume and helmet too. It's interesting seeing a Hawk-person in blue and white. That is not their usual colours (excepting Northwind I just realise).

I wonder if Shayera/Shiera will pop up anywhere? Has she been seen/mentioned in Hawkman's solo book yet? Kendra grew on me eventually but I'm old-school - I just much prefer my Hawkgirl/woman with flowing red hair.

Ooooh - EDE and I sharing a mental moment re: Northwind!

You guys are so smart! I was like "she looks really tan."

duh!

She's totally Northwind ....

Now it seems so obvious to me I want to post it into the "Obvious Squad" thread ...

Kendra was always darker than caucasian, although if her precise ethnicity was stated it was after I stopped reading JSA (since Shiera was her aunt, I suppose she had to be mixed race to some degree, that said).

Someone in the comments suggested that she might be Egyptian, which would make a whole lotta sense.

HA HA



Thanks, Peebs, I needed a good laugh.

So this is EARTH 2 of the DCnU. I'm onboard and ready to meet who these heroes are now.

I was surprised by the twist.

It's a little too early to say for sure but I'm getting a 'SUPREME POWER'-ish vibe from issue 1.

Also: WORLDS' FINEST # 1? It was better than anything Levitz has written since he returned to writing.

TOTES ..... agree!

MLLASH has s p o k e n.

RAHR!

So, as my feelings towards the DCnU grow ever more grim, I was totally surprised and delighted by how much I enjoyed both Earth 2 #1 and World's Finest #1! Both were fantastic starts to what looks to be two quality series, and I also like WF spun out of E2.

Earth 2 is definitely Robinson back to form following his current quality job on Shade. The 'bait and switch' element was spoiled for me already but I enjoyed it nonetheless and am eager to learn more about the non-Trinity Earth 2 characters. Robinson laid out a few easter eggs, like Al Pratt and possibly Jim Harper, while delivering a solid opener. He also tied it enough to the current DCnU (via Darkseid) to keep it high on the radar internally at DC. All in all, it was well written, beautifully drawn and a real pleasant surprise.

Meanwhile, I echo what others have said: World's Finest #1 was BY FAR the best writing Paul Levitz has done...since probably 1987 or so! He really seemed to find a groove with Helena and Karen, finding a nice balance between character and story. I haven't liked either the Huntress or Power Girl this much in a long, long time. It feels like they finally have found the right 'place' at DC. The art by Perez was great and MaGuire was killer; I like the fact that we'll continue to get some backstory for Helena and Karen's early years.

Two of the best #1's DC has done so far. If they can maintain this high level of quality, there may be hope for DC yet.

#2 continues the high quality!

Most unexpected bit was perhaps the appearance of Terry Sloane! Interesting to see where that goes.

Loved seeing Jay figuring out how to use his powers, and looking forward to Hawkgirl.

Alan and Sam were sweet... but, oh, that cliffhanger!

Dang, I need to get to the CBS--!!!!

Dang! This is turning out to be one exciting book. Mr. Terrific and Terry Sloane! A new origin and costume for the Flash! Jay is so young. Hawkgirl looks great.

I was expecting to be excited by the Alan Scott developments. Oh my goodness -- no time to bask in history being made. It all happened so fast.

Nicola Scott just nailed it again. This is definitely THE book to watch for the forseeable future.

Sam should have been named Jimmy. Unless <span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text"> he doesn't suffer the same fate as Jimmmy in All-American Comics #16 </span></span>


Seeing Terry Sloane was a nice surprize. And again Tyler Chemicals is mentioned. First Joan Williams is going to work for them. This issue they bought WayneTech.

Do you think the people of Earth2 know Batman's identity now? Or will Bruce Wayne's disappearance be considered just one more of the many people killed by parademons wose bodies have never been found? Presumable Selina Kyle wayne is Huntress' mother. Is she still around? We know <span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">Lois is dead</span></span>

Earth2 is definitely a book I can't wait to read. When is issue #3 coming out?

Nicola Scott is my hero!!

She will draw you ..... DOWN !




Her Hawkgirl and Flash are slick-t a c u l a r.

Loved issue #2... the artwork is a pleasure to behold... and I love all the little references to other JSAers, e.g., "Grant vs. Montez"...

hmmm, I'm wondering about the future line up ... if this turns into a team book ...

Hawkwoman
Alan Scott
Flash
Mr. Terrific

maybe:
Hourman
Power Girl
Huntress

Lotta helmets and new fangled face thingies, but what concerns me is two crossbow wielding heroines!!!


There can be only one!
Will they cross bow it out? a shooting competition or will they just go at it for the queen crossbow title!?!?


... apples off the top of Alan Scott's pretty head?

I'm wondering if Superman, Supergirl, Batman, Robin & Wonder Woman were the only superheroes on Earth 2 prior to Earth 2 #1.

I called it ...


preview of Earth 2:
http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=preview&id=12890

<span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">Alan Scott's lover Sam is dead. what a bad joke. </span></span>

Hmm... so I kind of have mixed feelings on the new GL origin. I thought the "power of the Earth" stuff sounded kind of stupid, but by the end I was more intrigued by the idea that the greenflame had once been human. I hope the Green vs Grey stuff isn't going to turn into the Earth-2 version of the emotional spectrum or something annoying, though.

Loved the Flash/Hawkgirl interaction. And we've apparently got Fate in the mix as well.

Looking forward to the Atom next issue!

3 is out already? CBS here I come!

I pretty much figured out Sam's fate from the end of issue #2.

EDE, I agree about the Power of Earth thing and the end where it might have once been human.

I definitely don't want the whole Johns color emotion thing. I think though it is more a Swamp Thing/Animal Man thing. Which could be equally annoying. It will be ok if they limit it to GL & Grundy.

Will the Atom be Sgt. Pratt from issue #1?

We have:
Flash
Green Lantern
Hawkgirl
Fate
Mr. Terrific (Earth-1) (The Earth 2 Terry Sloane looks to become a villain)
Atom

Hint at Hourman

I thought a solcit I saw said Atom Smasher.

Hint at Wildcat as well.

It did, but the next issue blurb here says "The Atom".

Art great, but the changes to the characters... I'm not feeling it. JSA is still my favorite contemporary team, but this is more like E-12 than E-2. Jay powered up by Mercury, Alan powered up by... swamp thing?

1970's, here I come.

I was gonna appeal to Rick to continue with E2, then decided not to.

But now I have been drinking, and... still am not going to.

Because I'm right there with him in my 70s love of the JSA.

I was gonna say that, every CRISIS has negated numerous stories that came before it and there's really NO reason for us to continue as fans of DC at all, really...

But then it dawned on me that sooner or later, a CRISIS will come along to restore our best-loved JSA! I'll be there when it happens, God willing and the creeks don't rise.

But until that happens, I'm really kinda enjoying this all-NEW all-NOW take on our Earth 2 faves. Come along for the ride, Rick! (awww, crap, that counts as an appeal I guess)

Not reading E2, but World's Finest has been pretty fun, if a little decompressed (I read 1-3 in one sitting and it could easily have been two issues). The art's great and Paul has some good banter going. Interested to see what happens when they go public in the DCnU. Should be some interesting interactions with the Super and Bat families.

I've been enjoying WF, though #3 seemed kind of repetitive of stuff we already knew.

I've been enjoying E2. Not a fan of the New 52 overall so I was excited about this comic.

Flash looks a bit hokey but when hasn't he? I don't mind it. Also don't mind the green/earth stuff for GL.

Basically it seems the JSA will be more magical than ever...which I like.

Flash getting his powers from Mercury, GL from the "earth", Hawkgirl hopefully egyptian ties, etc.

I like the black Hawkgirl. Especially if she has egyptian ties. I think this might be an easy transition for that character.

Don't LOVE the title but I like it.

Will Wildcat become an MMA fighter? I hope so.

E2 #4 was pretty solid. Maybe the most interesting Al Pratt has ever been, imo, though the "world army" stuff has the potential to become really annoying really fast. I'm also kind getting over the whole slow formation of the team thing, and wish they'd just get everybody together. That said, this remains a fascinating alternate take on the JSA.

WF #4 was pretty solid as well, if a bit workmanlike. I was kind of annoyed at the cover question asking "What are the Irradiated Man's ties to Earth-2?" or whatever, and then there's no answer to the question, or even real hints beyond the fact that there are such ties. You can really tell how much PL is putting into the relationship between the two leads, which is far more interesting than any of the characterization he's done in his latest Legion run, imo.

We're getting closer to having the team together. I wonder how many members there will eventually be? The banter between Jay and Kendra is fun. Atom's visual on the final splash page is impressive.

I'm wondering if it will parallel the original line-up, only with Kendra replacing Hawkman. We already have Flash, GL, Atom, Hawkgirl, and references to Fate as already involved in recruiting them, so all we would need would be Sandman, Hourman (who's been hinted at), and the Spectre.

I agre. Get the team together already. And yes, this is the most interesting Al Pratt has been in like forever.

It looks like we will be having an interruption with Earth2 issue 0

I said it before and I'll say it again. With 52 Earths to play with, why COULDN'T this have been Earth-12? Or 22? or whatever?

Anyone who likes the stories already would still have liked them, and no major emotional hurdle for old-time fans due to losing "their" E-2.

No, they just couldn't do it. Best they can do now is pick another Earth and declare it's the original E-2, just renumbered. Let's see if they're even that sensible.

It's not even as if they need to write stories for it. Just don't rule it out in case someone wants to do so later.

Now we know why

Well, it makes sense from a marketing standpoint to refer to the primary reality you're publishing as "Earth-1" (or "Earth-Prime", or whatever they're using) and the secondary reality you're publishing as "Earth-2", etc. See calling the "Golden Age" Earth "Earth-2" in the first place, even though it's stories were the first published.

It wouldn't surprise me if some day someone decides to publish stories that take place on the old school Earth-1 or Earth-2, and what they designate them as really doesn't matter to me. Perhaps if the original JSA ever met the new JSA, they'd both claim to be from "Earth-2", according to the respective numbering systems each uses for designating alternate Earths.

It does make some sense for marketing IF it didn't actual bother anyone.

However, given some evidence that it does, to the point of actually making some fans (rightly or wrongly) give up on either some titles or the whole company, and that giving it a different number would likely have bothered nobody and would have had the same people giving it a shot as before PLUS those old E-Two fans who would accept a new earth with similarities, in hindsight marketing might have been better served by calling it something else.

That's "hindsight" for DC. It was foresight for me.

This rant was brought to you by my assumptions.

But just try to tell me different. Go on. Try.

<span style="font-size: 8px;">(Oh, and also, if anyone's interested, this rant is my 600th post.)</span>

http://www.newsarama.com/comics/james-robinson-describes-earth-2.html
DC and its writers have a tough time figuring out what to call the main DCU Earth. Robinson originally used terms like "Earth One" and "Earth Prime," but Newsarama inquired with DC editorial and was told that Robinson should have used "main DCU Earth." This is the second time a DC writer accidentally used the wrong name for the main DCU Earth in an interview with Newsarama.

With the "Earth One" GNs still ongoing, they seem to have left themselves with a terminological problem post-Flashpoint reboot...

Still be a pretty male-dominated lineup (granted, this is the company that thinks a JL with just Wonder Woman is fine). Maybe it'll be Inza-Fate, or a female Spectre?

I'm starting to think of it as Earth Zero, which is the point my interest in it is fast approaching.

With all the various Flashes or Green Lanterns, one of the less gender-specific classic names (unlike Superman or Wonder Woman), I'm surprised that there haven't been more female Flashes or (Earth-ly) Green Lanterns (or Atoms or whatever).

Iris taking over for Barry, after the Crisis, instead of Wally eventually taking up the mantle, could have been an unusual twist. (And Jean Loring becoming a new Atom, might have saved us her becoming Eclipso instead...) Megan becoming the new Martian Manhunter, after John's (temporary) death could have been another example that wouldn't have required changing a 'XYZboy' to 'XYZgirl.' (Although a female hero named 'manhunter' might have elicted the occasional sophomoric giggle. Grrrowl! Couger Lass is on the prowl!)

Then again, Black Canary earns my love for being a classic female hero who doesn't follow in the footseteps of an established male legacy, unlike Zatanna or any of the Super, Bat, Hawk or Aqua girls (or women).

I actually think the odds are good that we'll see a female Red Tornado, played seriously, on Earth-2.

It would be nice to see someone like Cyclone (young, nervous, and a bit in awe of the others) in that role, although I guess all the heroes of Earth 2A are just starting their careers so maybe that angle wouldn't quite work.

I don't mind this incarnation of the JSA so far. If you are going to do a reboot, then you might as well go nuts with it. I actually like the new Flash and Green Lantern, although I wish Alan's fiance had survived.

I do kinda wish Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman had also survived. Its been a long time since the Earth-2 versions were alive and active JSAers.

True, but this is not Earth-Two. No matter how good it may be, it's not Earth-Two.

So they might as well give these JSA'ers the chance to avoid the shadow of a current version of the big 3.

I thought this issue was ... regular. I liked the action but, it seemed to go by really quickly (like most dc comics right now IMO).

I like somethings about it (Like pretty much everyone) but the plot already had me wondering if I'm lost ... <span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">the whole grey vs. green thing, and on top of that the Atom and Hawkgirl conflict, to name a coupel of things</span></span>

seems like it could be a mess very quickly.

I thought we'd get something different with this Earth 2 but actually, the whole "several issue main story arc = getting the band together" seems like we've been there done that. Last year.

Granted I only skimmed it, but I really didn't like the re-imagined Grundy (not the first time Robinson's played with Grundy to my dissatisfaction). I get that everyone's getting a new look and feel here, but Grundy's such a classic, this one rang hollow with me.

I read issue 3 tonight (I'm a little behind). I enjoyed it and am still very into this all-new all-now JSA, but I HATE the new look for Grundy.

Solomon Grundy is the ONLY supervillain scary looking enough that I ever had a bad dream about him.

Now he's wearing a leather dress. NO. Just NO.

Otherwise, I'm still into it. RIP Sam.

I read # 4! Still hate dress-wearing "rot" Grundy. Everything else? FAB-YOO-LOSA!

WORLDS FINEST continues to improve! Issue 4 was fun!!

Mixed feelings on E2#0. The super-genius commits horrible actions because he's foreseen it's the only way to achieve the greater good is kind of cliched, though I suppose it was fairly welll done here. I suppose the most interesting question raised by the issue was who the other two active heroes were.

WF#0 was okay, but, other than the confirmation of a certain character's death, I'm not sure it really added all that much.

James Robinson doesn't like Terry Sloane, does he?

Well, I don't about that. He pretty much set him up as a badass, overall, outmaneuvering the <strike>Trinity</strike> Ternion and with the whole cool slipping between dimensions and stuff. We'll see what they do with him from here on out.

I'm kind of citing from the Golden Age. He made mention that after Sloane (Sloan?) retired from superheroics he started his own company, and he didn't exactly use honest means to do so.

I don't buy WF, so would you please spoil the character death for me?

In somewhat of a parallel to pre-Crisis continuity, <span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">Helena enters into action after the death of her mother, the Catwoman of Earth-2</span></span>.

I also had mixed feelings about the #0 issue. It did give us some needed background to help keep the story moving, and provided some insight into Sloan's motivations. I'm not that excited about the motivations, however. I do like the parallels between the Apokolips attacks on the main DC Earth, as presented in Justice League, and Earth 2. I wish we could have been given a bit more insight into the personalities of the Earth 2 Wonder Woman, Superman, and Batman. The art was interesting, but I missed Scott and found some of the shots of Wonder Woman to be gratuitous.

Sounds like the feedback influence of Watchmen again. Dr Manhattan was chromeskinned so his inspiration Captain Atom became chromeskinned. Rorschach was popular as a conspiracy theorist so his inspiration the Question became more of a whacko than he had been.

This time it's going back two steps, from Ozymandias, past Peter Cannon/Thunderbolt, back to the DC counterpart, Terry Sloane/Mr Terrific.

^^I hadn't quite made that connection, but, yeah, that's basically it. Even the emphasis on him as "the smartest man in the world" shouts the influence.

I used to think the Watchmen were inspired by the DC archetypes before I read they were the Charlton heroes.

Since they're not exactly giving Peter Cannon a lot of print these days, I guess with all the attention Before Watchmen is getting, the influence just fell on Terry.

Sometimes it seems they only use new ideas after they run through the old ones three times.

Interestingly, Dynamite just released the first issue of Peter Cannon: Thunderbolt. I purchased it before reading this thread, and read it after your posts Shining Son. With your theory in mind, I concluded there are a number of Ozimandias influences.

Who are the others?

But the point here is the reverse, how Watchmen has been influencing the influences.

That's what I meant. It does appear that the character in the Dynamite series is influenced by Watchmen.

Oh, right. Didn't realize the Peter Cannon thing you mentioned was not a reprint, or that Dynamite has the rights to him now.

Sarcasm Kid:

He seemed to like him well enough in Starman # 37 (the issue where Jack sits down to dinner with dead JSA/All-Star Squadron members) and in the "All-Star Comics" event which had the JSA fighting against Stalker the Soulless.

Thing to remember here (and I have not read the issue yet, as I am waaaay behind) is that these are not the heroes we used to know...(cue song).

Just as the original Earth-Two itself had some intriguing differences from our own world (South Africa getting rid of apartheid earlier, Quebec leaving Canada), the new Earth-2 seems to have a few of its own quirks as well. It'll be interesting to see where Robinson goes with stuff like a global military force and other things that happened as a result of the Apocalypse invasion.

The issue contains two stories. One is brand new by Darnall, Ross, and Lau.

The second is an ashcan story that Peter Cannon's creator, Pete Morisi, prepared for DC for a Secret Origins issue that never saw print. Apparently, Morisi retained rights over the character that the creators of other Charlton heroes didn't. This led to a delay in DC's plans to reintroduce him with the other Charlton characters. By the time a deal was struck, DC had moved another direction. Morisi passed away in 2003 and it looks like Dynamite has entered into a contract with his estate.

Interesting. Thanks for posting that Jerry.

There was an invasion from Apocalyse on Earth 2? Does this mean there are w (or more) Darkseids? Or that the Fourth Worlds has access to the Multiverse and operates on all earths, or at least those in which they are interested?

That's a big unanswered question. I think the latter would be interesting.

It's been kind of implied that the latter is the case, but not confirmed.

Wasn't it already the case pre-Crisis that the Fourth World operated across all the universes? I seem to remember hearing that a loooooonnnnggg time ago. (I think it might have even come up in the Crisis?)

It makes sense when you think about it.

Yes, but either makes sense. (And it's not as if sense is always the guiding principle anyway.)

Major powers, such as the Guardians, that have been around for millions of years either have no apparent interest OR counterparts in other Earths.

Seems to me that with many Earths, either Darkseid would have found that only ONE had the proper Anti-Life Equation, or he would have succeeded in obtaining it by now. With so many targets, it's exponentially harder for the forces of New Genesis to protect them. And not every Earth's heroes can be as competent as ours. :-)

In fact, I also wonder... if Darkseid is supposed to have been around so long (or at least he thinks he has been), why did he wait till the Age of Heroes to start messing about on Earth?

Anyway, either story they want to tell is fine, but hopefully editorial will pick one and stick with it instead of a confusing mess.

Hmm... the plot of the JLA/JSA/New Gods crossover involves Darkseid moving Apokolips into Earth-2's place, so that he could conquer a universe without Old Gods or New Gods to thwart him. That seems to suggest that it has a different relationship to Earth-1 than to the other Earths, though it's not exactly definitive.

When did that crossover come out?

^ 1980.

http://www.comics.org/issue/34744/cover/4/
http://www.comics.org/issue/902234/cover/4/
http://www.comics.org/issue/902441/cover/4/

Can someone explain the gist of what happened with the 0 issue? Totally don't understand Terry Sloane's behaviour! He's known as Mr. 8?

The people of the four or five locations that got blowed up at the end had been mind-controlled / anti-life-equationed by Darkseid, and Sloane arranged for the stuff meant to shut down the machines to instead cause them to explode, both to eliminate the threat, to keep the other heroes from getting diverted into trying to save them, and to 'show' Darkseid what lengths humanity would go to repel his advances.

That's what I got from it, although it was not a story that really resonated with me, since it wasn't a version of the character I had any connection to, and therefore came across as less of an Earth 2 story, and more of a 'fanfic.'

It was a little too 'Sloane as Ozymandius,' and, while comics are 100% repeating the same cool stories over and over (sometimes even with the same characters), Ozy's shoes are too big to fill with a character that has just been introduced (and Earth 2 is only, what, four issues out of the box?, and really hasn't had time to grow on us...), IMO, and that sort of magic can't be captured in a one-issue story.

While I'm still trying to scrub it from my brain, I do seem to recall from the JL story that Darkseid isn't explicitly seeking Anti-Life, but is jumping from world to world looking for his daughter. Have they mentioned Anti-Life at all in the Nu52?

My problem was that Batman is that character in many ways already, especially seeing them together slinging high technology at Para Demons. That alone was enough to make me put it back on the shelf.

Its like evil Tony Stark Deus ex machina vs. good Tony Stark Deus ex Mmachina. Its not interesting when there is one of them, much less two.

It so annoyed me, Because these types of characters are so over exposed, I put it back on the shelf.

Soon, instead of 20 batman titles (and/or wolverine titles) its going to be 20 batman titles where he fights evil versions of himself!



there's a satire waiting to happen in there somewhere.

In the Anti-Matter Universe ALL comicbooks are Batman or Wolverine titles and they fight each other!

Earth 2 #5 gives a brief appearance by another rebooted classic JSAer, and references to two more.

The storyline is still moving annoyingly slow, but I'm enjoying it nonetheless. I'm loving the characterization of Jay, and poor Alan now has to make a gut-wrenching choice.

All in all, I'm definitely still enjoying this in a groovy Elseworlds kind of way.

Set, you're right that it had less impact without gettting to care about the character first, but perhaps it's for the best that they showed early in the DCnU how different this Sloane is from the previous version, rather than let us assume otherwise and think it's out of character for him if they did the story later.

Like 'Battle for the Cowl,' only Batman is there, and the Earth-3 Owlman, and the Midnighter, and every other Batman-pastiche! Is there a Bizarro Batman, who fights crimefighters with his profound stupidity and array of completely inappropriate gadgets and incredible lack of preparation? There is now! Bam!

I always thought Battle for the Cow sounded more interesting, but could never figure out why a bunch of Bat-folk would be fighting over Old Bessie.

Have I mentioned lately how much I love Nicola Scott? She brings magic to everything she touches. Her work on issue #5 totally rocks.

This was a fast paced issue with lots going on. The best parts were Green Lantern, Atom, Flash and Hawkgirl fighting side by side. The team is coming together. The chemistry is good. Green Lantern is showing some early leadership skills. His intuition to trust his teammates with his life provides a foundation for lots of believable teamwork to come.

She is amazing. There needs to be more Nicola Scott ... I especially love her Hawkwoman and Flash.

The fantastic artwork on World's Finest also really makes the series. Mesmerizing and dynamic, both Perez and Maguire keep the story interesting (possibly more than it deserves to be) and make Kara & Helena more endearing with every panel.

On Earth-2, Nicola Scott is also nailing it. There's a kinetic excitement on the page that enhances the world building.

Let the record show that Nicola Scott is amazing.

I almost hate to say it, as my love for Perez is well-known ... but MAGUIRE IS KILLING IT. This may be some of his best work, from the usual amazing expressions, to the detailed body language, backgrounds etc. ....

Its not right to think of it as a competition but I was afraid the pro George Perez side by side with Maguire would make one of my beloved favorites from the JLI days ... look flawed. And while GP is throwing down some of his best work in ages as well ...when I turn the page from GP to Maguire's flash backs .... they just glow off the page!

props to both of them.

Yeah, Maguire on the #0 issue has made that the best #0 I've read so far. His depiction of a younger PG is so well done--slimmer and younger, with less confidence in her posture. It's filled with all kinds of subtleties.

EDIT: weird, my thumb image stopped working and redirected. Another good joke ruined.
Anyway it showed the Tiny Titans "Battle for the Cow" image.

I agree, WORLDS FINEST 0 just rocked my socks, and Maguire is turning in the work of his career!

Caught up with issues 1 - 4 and 0.

Reads well overall. Liking the new incarnations of the characters so far. Really liking what I have seen of The Atom.

Gotta get 5 soon.

Caught up with WF 1-4 and 0.

Really liking this book. More than erven E2. The characters have a great relationship, and it can almost feel like the old DCU if you let it...even if just for a second.

Earth 2 is pretty good--part of my thinks the story should be moving a little faster and we should be closer to a team-book, but then I remember that this is called "Earth 2," not JSA.

Worlds' Finest is pretty fun as well, though I think Levitz really needs to step up on the plot of it. I mean, the characters themselves are fun, but the stories they've been in are kinda boring.

And since this is a Legion board, I have to ask you guys--is anyone else getting a Dream Girl vibe from the way Levitz is writing Power Girl, or is it just me?

Earth 2 reminds me so much of SUPREME POWER, the Squadron Supreme reboot of a few years back. that started off a fave, but the pace seemed like it had come to a standstill and no one was EVER gonna team up.

Fortunately, EARTH 2's pace is nowhere near as slow as SP was.

Apparently we find out if they're going to form a super-team next issue!

It seems like they've been hanging out in DC fighting Solomon Grundy like forever, though.

And the answer is <span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">no! </span></span>

I suspect that there's more to Alan's actions than what he actually says, however.

Best part of the issue: Grundy being trapped on the Moon! Nice old school nod there!

Holy gender reversal, Batman!

At least one traditionally male Earth-2 character is now female: <span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">We get a reference to reporter Lee Travis and her cameraman James Wing</span></span>

And another character has kind of switched genders: <span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">Apparently, Red Tornado is a female android.</span></span>

From the description, I expected this issue would focus heavily upon Hawkgirl, but, other than a brief scene in which she confronts Alan and reveals a little bit of information about herself, most of the storyline focuses on the tension between Terry Sloane and Commander Khan, with Wesley Dodds signing up on Khan's side. Pretty good stuff overall, and, after dragging a bit on the Grundy stuff, the story seems like it's moving forward nicely. A really strong issue overall!

If that character has switched genders, then it's not the one you're thinking of.

<span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">Ma Hunkel was the first Red Tornado and she came form Earth-2. The new Red Tornado is apparently female. I was afraid of this exact thing.</span></span>

Well, that's why I said kind of.

<span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">The character is still an android, and I presume will have the powers of the second Red Tornado, so it's still based heavily upon that one. But they've made it female, which I assume is meant to reference Ma Hunkel.</span></span>

Oop. I just repeated what you said. My bad.

I finally figured out what the book reminds me of.

Tangent.

It was a fun line that reinterpreted the characters we all know and love. And while it was a lot of fun, eventually you want the characters you know and love back.

That's where I'm at now with this.

Well, I never really had much interest in the post-Crisis JSA, so it's at least twenty-five years since the versions of the characters I cared about were around. For now, I'm enjoying this "Elseworlds" quite a bit.

<span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text"> may be Maxine Hunkel ... Cyclone ... recent JSA member and granddaughter of Ma ... Apparently the previous version had nanobytes that gave her her powers ... </span></span>

Well, Robinson said in a recent interview that part of his strategy for reimagining the characters is to take bits from various versions of the characters. So, "Al Pratt" combines elements of the original Atom, but also Damage and Nuklon. So, I would assume they're doing something similar with the character in question and combining bits of several versions. However, <span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">it looks a lot like Red Tornado II, only with curves and boobs.</span></span>

That seems weird. Something else else for everyone characters!!!

I'm on the complete opposite end. I liked the old JSA, but I like that, perhaps the most out of all the other books, Earth 2 fulfills the NEW aspect of the New 52. I mean, we pretty much got SIXTY YEARS of the JSA as older men and women to some degree. The fact that we're seeing them as younger and more vital individuals with new origins, sometimes even new concepts in this completely different world is really exciting.

Earth 2 #8 was pretty much about putting another major chess piece on the table, and, while it was pretty interesting, it felt like it was only about half an issue.

Still, the full introduction of Steppenwolf as a major player in the series and the debut of the new Fury were pretty well done. The really interesting bit will be, I believe, when Fury eventually meets Power Girl and Huntress, although I don't suppose that will be happening for awhile now.

I can see that, between the pacing and some of the art choices by Cinar, this actually really reminded me of Robinson's brief stint on WildCATS in that there was some stylish action, some interesting characters, and sets up potential for interesting stories, but not a whole lot by way of overall plot development.

I enjoyed issue 8, and like EDE am enjoying this for what it actually is-- an ELSEWORLDS version of JSA.

It's still suffering from SUPREME POWER-like pacing though... I'm ready to see an actual TEAM start to emerge...

I get what you mean, but I think Robinson's said that there's a reason why this is called "Earth 2" and not "Justice Society."

Then EARTH 2 will probably ultimately be unsatisfying to me personally.

Oh well, it won't be too terribly long until the next reality-altering "EVENT" at DC, I am sure...

I suspect we will eventually be getting a JSA, but that the storyline won't necessarily be limited to them. Actually, it wouldn't surprise me if JSA eventually spins off into its own book, leaving the main E-2 title to focus more on the World Army/Terry Sloane/political stuff.

Assuming another reboot doesn't take place first.

^ if that happened, I'd be pretty happy. Earth 2 is among the final DC series left that I actually enjoy each month.

#8 still felt a bit on the short side, but not nearly as bad as last issue. The main focus is on the introduction of the new Dr. Fate, but we also meet Jay's mom, and find out that the World Army has learned the Flash's secret identity. Plus, we get the debut of an unexpected new character !

Still reading this Tangentline book. Loving Ms. Scott's art. It's still beautiful. And the story is great. It really is. But it's not JSA. And JSA is what I want to read.

While I was still buying comics I found E2 to be one of the more enjoyable things to come from the new 52

While I have to admit I still need to give the latest issue a proper read, I need to tell everyone that Nicola Scott's art in this book is absolutely brilliant.

Is it wrong that I'm more excited for the reintroduction of than ? Whatever!

No, I liked her better as well. But they work so well together. I'm just hoping that they will still be a couple, and that we can get Ralph and Sue back as well.

Wife > husband as well, although having the silly husband made the strong wife a better character, in my opinion.

I picked this up for the New Gods connection (though I've strangely been avoiding the Orion/WW stuff). I didn't hate it like I do most Robinson stuff. I really liked this Jay Garrick and I want to get excited for Dr. Fate, an old favorite of mine, but the past decades have seen so many "new" Dr. Fates introduced, that it's hard to stay enthused for yet another one.

Apparently, James Robinson's leaving with #16. I didn't want to like Earth 2, but eventually did. I feel a bit blindsided, like someone on Survivor.

All his fine plans for this world/dimension/reality are soon to be clouds of dreamdust. I hope he gets to stick his version of Infinity, Inc. into his concluding issues.

It was a treat to see Molly Mayne, a Ma Hunkel-ish Red Tornado and Mekanique? in the news-ad thingie in the back of this week's books.

I should've known DC would make me pay for a second of joy.

I hope its taken over by a decent writer. Earth-2 is one of the few titles I actually look forward to reading each month.

Yeah, I've been digging this title quite a bit. One of the best from DC at the moment.

The wrong writer could screw it up pretty badly, however.

A lot of people over on Bleeding Cool seem to think Levitz is the likely replacement.

Dan Didio isn't writing anything at the moment...

That would make sense, as he also writes World's Finest. Not sure how I'd feel about that.

His WF has been better than his Legion. Not saying I want to continue reading E2 without JR and possibly Nicola, though. We'll have to wait and see.

Seems like Robinson has tried to remain professional but reading between the lines, he's pretty pissed at DC too these days (much like just about everyone).

Based on DC's current track record, I'm confident the series will tank shortly. I hope that isn't the case though.

Levitz has done a pretty good job on WF but I don't want him on a team book anytime soon.

Thanks to new artist Emanuela Lupacchino, I've been belatedly introduced to the charms of Paul Levitz's "World's Finest", so I borrowed the trade of the first six issues from the library.

I think, like a lot of veteran writers, Levitz is more interested these days in character interaction than in balls-to-the-wall action. It used to be that he was equally great at both, but there you go. And the characterization of Helena and Karen is consistently superb. I would go so far to say that the one good thing to come out of the DCnU is that we got Helena Wayne back. Unlike a lot of readers, I never learned to accept Helena Bertinelli and her cliched Catholic angst. Helena Wayne has always been a favorite of mine, and I hope she's here to stay.

Art-wise, these first six issues show that Maguire has never been better (this bodes well to his future with Marvel, and before anyone asks, no, I didn't read the Maguire-drawn final issue of LSH) while Perez and Ordway are shadows of their former selves, especially Perez. Ah, well, Emanuela's here now, hopefully for the long run.

Bump.

When I heard James Robinson was leaving DC after #16 of Earth-2, you have no idea how completely and utterly happy I felt knowing that hack was going to be gone. I can't remember the last time I ever felt as happy as I did that day.

Since this is the Earth-2 topic, I guess I can post my thoughts here. They aren't going to be pleasant thoughts, but, if I'm repeating myself from another post I apologize.

Understand that the main reason why I wasn't buying Earth-2 was because of my personal ban on anything and everything James Robinson has ever written until he apologizes for that lame excuse he gave at San Diego Comic Con 2010 about Roy Harper's dismemberment and war veterans.

These are the ancillary reasons, I guess. I decided to voice my opinion after being reminded of a few things upon learning Sandman Mystery Theater is being discussed on here.

*Combining Ma and possibly Maxine Hunkel with the robot Red Tornado in order to update the both of them. Ma didn't need any updating to be cool. She was a woman who sought out to protect her livelihood and her family and even if she did it by dressing up in longjohns and putting a pot over her head, and even if she was originally the joke character of the JSA, that woman had guts and we should all pray to be able to muster up even a tenth of her courage and her compassion. And now she's a $%^*^*( robot.
*Wesley Dodds gets turned from the Sandman into the leader of a commando squad called the Sandmen. As a very longtime fan of Sandman Mystery Theater I am surprised I haven't become physical ill yet.
*NO DIAN BELMONT.

And finally, what I feel I have to say about Alan Scott being gay. I'm not trying to speak up for every gay person, just how I personally feel, but Alan being made gay does absolutely nothing for me. I don't feel like I can connect with him, I don't feel like DC is reaching out to gay fans, I feel contempt and disgust. To me this is nothing but a sorry excuse for a publicity stunt. He's confirmed as gay in one issue, which introduces the boyfriend he's going to propose to, and then said boyfriend is killed in the incident that turns Alan into the Green Lantern. Oh, and am I correct in understanding that Alan's ring was originally going to be Sam's engagement ring? So his item of power is basically a living reminder that his boyfriend had to die for him to be Green Lantern. It's like they took Alexandra DeWitt and Terry Berg and shoved them into one character.

But another aspect of this is Obsidian. Todd struggled with his sexuality and mental health for about a decade, then after a lengthy run as a villain we saw him in Manhunter, out of the closet in a healthy relationship with another man, which lasted for about another decade to the point that they were considering starting a family. We even saw in the future of Manhunter that they indeed adopted a child who grew up into a young woman. All that gets pushed aside and making Alan gay is supposed to rectify it. No. I don't accept that. Losing a healthy/openly gay couple for a gay man whose boyfriend died so he could be a superhero is in no way a fair trade, and I don't care what excuses Robinson or anyone else has.

Unfortunately, I really do enjoy Nicola Scott's artwork and I'm worried if I see her at NYCC this year I may go on a rant about my feelings regarding Earth-2. As with Justice League 3000, I wouldn't really have these strong negative opinions if we could have the original JSA side-by-side with the Earth-2 book. I can't even buy Batman/Superman with Greg Pak's commentary on the awful state of Batman and Superman because it would still be supporting this version of Earth-2.

I do like the Hawkgirl and Wonder Woman designs though.

I had to look up the Robinson war veterans (pretty unsettling even as a concept frankly). I'm boycotting him for as many issues as I bought his wretched JLA run. A JLA run I had on advance order (Grrr). Utterly wretched. Plus the issues I had ordered for the Rise and Fall of Reginald Harper. Again, utterly wretched.

Has Alan Scott had any sort of budding relationships since his boyfriend's death? Otherwise it looks like a "he's gay, but we killed his partner so we don't have to see it" approach they've adopted there.

"Bring back Lian Harper" indeed. Having dropped the Titans somewhere in Titan's Hunt give or take, the first issue I picked up was a fill in showing a day in the life of Roy Harper (#114 perhaps) A single dad, trying to juggle a few career options while being all to aware of his iffy history. Great issue.

Emanuela only did the cover of the most recent issue of "World's Finest", which is a shame because the current villainess has an obsession with sabotaging fashion shows -- Emanuela would have drawn that story beautifully! Instead, the guest artists are so bad, I won't even mention them by name.

Levitz's story is, once again, decent, no more, no less, but still and all worth the $2.99.

Hope it doesn't get cancelled, but its exclusion from the current DC "event" does not bode well.

I've been loving this series, but one of the things I liked was the absence of the Big Three. It did feel that the first eight Wonders were a parallel to the JSA, with the new heroes (Jay, Scott, et al) being the JLA trying to live up to their memory. Now that's been undone with the appearance of Batman II and Brutaal. If Fury ends up being Diana reincarnated...
This month's issue was a disappointment. None of the storylines were really advanced. We almost found out who Batman is, but were interrupted in mid-sentence. sigh. No Hawkgirl, no Mr. Miracle, Green Lantern and Dr Fate were presumably nearby, but weren't shown. The three latest additions (the dead wife, the cub, and the queen) belong in another title, IMHO. It seems less than desirable that new people are introduced at the sacrifice of further characterization of the heroes we have, and we already have quite a few.
Perhaps I should take my own advice and wait to see where the new creators are going with this before I exclaim that the sky is falling. Still, while I'm waiting for something (anything!) to happen in the three Justice League books, this is by far my favorite DC title.

Ms. Scott's art is still fantastic.

That said...

I'm not groving on the story. With the latest issues, it seems more and more like a weird elseworlds story where you just get through it waiting for the real JSA to show up.

I like WF, but the story needs to move along a bit. It's not bad by any means, but it seems like a split personality book half the time.

I've just cut out so much of DC now, it's like a long lost friend has left, and you've got his weird second cousin that hasn't dated in ever, has waaaaaaaaay to many Ultraman dolls for anyone's comfort, even the hard core collectors, and is crossed with Alan from The Hangover. Without the fun parts.

If E2 loses Ms. Scott... well, my pull gets even lighter.

Meh. Crisis killed the JSA. This series had some interesting ideas, but at the end of the day I just lost interest in where it was going. Robinson leaving turned out to be a nice jumping off point.

Yeah. This series never got the hard stop cancelation from me like so many others but eventually just became a monthly moment of "wow, I really don't give a shit about any of this."

The JSA rejoin so many others in the wait for a new era category.

I'd be lying if I said I didn't like this Aquawoman character they introduced. And Nicola Scott told me she's not based on any pre-existing characters, in case anyone was making parallels to Tsunami.

Hey so guess what.

You know that Red Arrow character Robinson said was called Roy McQueen?

Tom Taylor now made him Connor Hawke.

Sounds like a bit of a mess. Another example of desperate chopping and changing?

I like World's Finest, but I don't know if I "weekly" like World's Finest.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=52216

If it wasn't the DCnU, and Dan Didio wasn't still running things, and this was actually the heroes I care about, and hell--especially if this took place during WWII, I would be all over it.

But given this is the modern day DC Comics, thanks but no thanks.

^^Agreed completely. As I've said before, a weekly "real time" WW2 comic is kind of my ultimate dream series. But this... meh.

And...and I didn't see Roy Thomas' name anywhere in there!

WOW. It has been a while.

I saw Joe Prado at Baltimore Comic Con yesterday, and he had unused designs for new versions of Jonni Thunder, Airwave, and Brainwave.

Though I liked the old WW2 things with Earth 2 many years ago. I thought of the new Earth 2 as being WW3! The Nazis replaced by Apocalypse. I wish it had been taken further though with some humans working for Darkseid. Instead of Captain Nazi it could be Captain ?????. Mechanique, um and I can't think of others but you probably get it.

Axis Amerika? Per Degaton? Der Zyklon? Baron Blitzkrieg?

Yes! They could be working for Darkseid instead of Nazis. Maybe we will see them again somehow.

Nicola Scott is gone. I dropped E2.

I read Obsidian and Johnny Thunder are going to be villains at some point in World's End.

Also, in Future's End, the new Captain Steel is one of the E2 casualties. He was vivisected alive and his remains have been dumped in a bin by Cadmus.

For those not reading Future's End, the inhabitants of Earth-2 are now living in the main DCU, only they're treated like criminals and refused basic rights. People have to wear Earth ID cards now. Most Earth-2 natives are being held prisoner by Cadmus. It's actually pretty disgusting, and I'd be lying if it didn't remind people of how immigrants in real life are treated.

The last of the Convergence 2-parters were announced, with several Pre-Crisis Earth 2 books: Justice Society of America, Infinity Inc, Robin & Huntress, Kal-L & Power Girl, and the Seven Soldiers of Victory. Also there will be an Earth X book for Plastic Man and the Freedom Fighters.

Yolanda Montez turned out to be the Red Lantern that was previously mentioned.

Okay, so I stayed with Earth 2 and Earth 2: Society all the way through until this week's final issue. No regrets. The art was always nice. The series presented a fresh and unique take on some classic characters. I found them interesting. The totally offbeat Lois Lane as Red Tornado worked. Val ended up being a welcome addition to the Superman legacy characters. I hope we see him again. The closeness of Dick and Helena in the final arcs felt right.

When the New 52 Legion series ended, Levitz hinted that perhaps that version was the future of Earth 2. The destruction of Earth 2 prior to the launch of Earth 2: Society made that outcome seem unlikely. However, by bringing Earth 2 back in the final issues, Abnett resurrected the possibility. Who knows?

I'm gonna level with you guys. Had the final issue of Earth-2: Society actually been the starting point for the Earth-2 comics, and had James Robinson not been involved and the old timer JSA was still around, I would've given this book a chance. Instead of all the time that was spent on that New Gods/Apokolips ridiculousness.

Like many of the people on this message board, I am a BIG fan of Earth 2.

I was not a fan of this book. The Apokolips stuff never felt "right" and it lasted WAY too long. I picked it back up when it turned to Earth 2: Society and that limped to an end this week. It was cloyingly sweet, to me.

The characters that stood out through the series for me were Lois Red Tornado, Val, Kendra and Helena. The rest? Not so much for me.