Legion World Forums LEGION COMPANION Dr. Gym'll's Cultural Rarities characters DC *should* kill off in IC!

I want this too, but only because I have him in the Infinite Crisis Death pool.

I usually agree with Reboot. Going backwards does suck...especially when they say it's all new, blah, blah, blah. ick.

The Fiddler replacement is just as lame. Virtuso? Kill.

Sorry LASH I know you hate me already...this will feed the fire. Duela Dent. The first time I read about this character as a kid I did my own continuity change and erased her from memory.

Martian Manhunter only to bring him back with a new look and name. Just a tad more Martian.

Overall I don't mind them not killing anyone. Ma Hunkel is cool as long as they don't out a pot on her head. Duela Dent is cool as long as they don't use her.

Virtuoso has to die though!!!

Geez. Every message board is the same. We've become death happy. It's like we're channeling Greg Rucka.

Why would you want a character to be pointlessly killed off in a crossover? Because you don't like the character?

Well, so what? Somebody probably likes him/her/it. I say if it's possible to get a good story out of a character, then it's a waste to kill them. There could be an up-and-coming writer who really likes, let's say, Captain Comet. But before he gets the chance, some kill-happy writer (Rucka) uses him to increase a villain's body count. There goes any chance for that writer to do his cool Captain Comet story. He could always ressurect him somehow, but a lot of readers want fictional characters to stay dead. So what's that writer supposed to do?

You don't have to like every character, but I don't think it's a good idea to call for their deaths just because you don't like them.

Heck, look at what Grant Morrison is doing with Klarion the Witch Boy and the old Spawn of Frankenstein property. He's breathing life into concepts and characters that readers normally wouldn't have thought they would like.

And just look at the Countdown mini-series. I'd bet that Catman would've been on many people's "to kill" lists before Gail Simone made him cool. What I'm saying is that there is potential in every character for greatness. Why waste that in a stupid death that really doesn't add anything to the story? (seriously, did anyone remember or care what happened to the Freedom Fighters after they saw the ending of IC #1?)
Yeah, there were a few stinkers in there, but not all of them were bad stereotypes. Did you read the JLA Annual that introduced the Jannisary? Brian K. Vaughn did a good job making her an interesting character and, I thought, treated her Muslim faith fairly well. Plus, the story was fun.

I agree that there is potential in every character! But I *still* want the DEOrphans DEAD DEAD DEAD!!!!!!

And Jorg, I don't hate you at all, though I *do* find myself surprised that you could allow yourself to enjoy a comic like the current "SHE-HULK" series. I'm surprised you don't consider it "beneath" you, what with your apparent extreme dislike of all things silly (comic-related, anyway).

Sure, I realize SHE-HULK is as *smartly* written as it is witty-- but, y'know, comics in the 60s and 70s didn't have the luxury of having Dan Slott as the writer.

I don't at all hate you but I *have* given up on you, as far as anything pre-1983 is concerned. Disliking the pre-1980s history of comics stuff is your loss, as far as I'm concerned.

Hopefully this "hate" misunderstanding is now cleared up.

I don't want anyone really dead. If there is a character I don't like I rather them just quietly place them in comic book limbo. Every character is someone's favorite and all of that.

I lost Hawkeye, Nomad, and Blue Beetle pretty close together. I am bitter. All three were faves.

LASH, I like silly if it's a silly book. I love Giffen's & DeMatteis' JL stuff. I love She-Hulk.

Pre-83? Or pre-80 even? At Marvel I like quite alot. Avengers, Adam Warlock, Captain Marvel, Spider-Man, X-Men, heck...lots of Marvel. DC pre 80's. Not much. Heck DC pre Crisis I only liked Legion and Teen Titans. Well some JLA.

So? Title says "should," not "will"

Oh, I know. I know of at least three characters I really like who are about to be expressly depowered or killed in Marvel's DeciMation. Hopefully depowered, since dead should mean dead (and they're not characters who would be in line on the ressurectionometer anyway), but a mass-depowering will probably be gradually and/or completely undone at some point (I give the "no new mutants, bar a few who are to far along to yank" a year, two tops, and the depowerment to start to "leak" in three years time.)

Actually, Ma Hunkel preceded Wonder Woman by more than a year. She appeared as herself for several months before adopting the Red Tornado identity (I don't have the exact dates in front of me), but she was established as Red Tornado by the end of 1940 and the JSA's first appearance, which would have been a full year before WW appeared.

Hawkgirl also preceded Wonder Woman.

Oh yeah. The topic of this thread:
Batman! I wish they'd get rid of Batman. I've never understood the appeal of a paranoid with no super-powers. Won't happen, but I can dream, can't I?

Wow. Ma/Red Tornado PREdates Wonder Woman? Yes, she must live! Thanks for the info, Rocky.

And my # 1 pick for a death that should but isn't likely to happen is THE JOKER. KILLLLL KILLL KILLL HIM!!!

Jorg, cool then, as long as you know the only thing I hate is.... the DEOrphans! And the Joker.

I wouldn't mind seeing Deadshot and/or Catman kill that psycho torture doctor from Villains United.

And DC might as well kill Fire, Booster, Ralph and Guy and get the complete annihilation of the Giffen JLI over with.

And if there *must* be an "iconic" death in IC, I say throw the Earth-Prime Superboy to the wolves.

No way. The Earth-Prime Superboy will come to the 30th Century to help boost Legion sales. Just my opinion.

All I'm saying is, watch this space.

I think the JLI folks are going to come back in a big way during/after IC. In fact, Beatrice and Booster are both good bets for 52*.

Cobie, you forgot Anima, Hitman and a few others.

Jamie

None. I'm tired of wanton deaths, iconic and otherwise.

Heroic deaths, perhaps, but that's not the fashion these days. Unlike with the '85 "Crisis."

Jamm was from the 20th Century so I don't imagine he was affected much.

I'd kill Byrne's Doom Patrol.

The characters in 52 are Going Away (dead/another dimension/etc isn't yet known) at the end of the series and thus won't appear in any post-OYG stories.

So Be Careful What You Wish For.

Can't we just ignore Byrne's Doom Patrol and not validate it by having the characters killed off?

when i say dead i mean dead.

1. superman
2. batman
3. super girl
4. "kon el"
5. and robin

7. oh and hawk girl in a bitter jealous rage because they killed shayera.

There are lots of lameo characters that could become cannon fodder for IC. A few of my personal favorites that I wish would die:

1. Wonder Girl - Boring character with a lame origin. Adds nothing to the WW mythos. Hate, hate, hate her!
2. Phantom Girl - Have not liked any version of her since Levitz turned her into a bit*h. Will never forgive her for making fun of TW and Blok's relationship. Then after zero hour she was miss-goody-two-shoes-holier-than-thou-slef-rightous-b*tch.
3. Booster Gold - worthless character who was turned into a walking buffoon by Giffen.
4. Blue Beetle - Ditto (Ooops, they already got him, Yah!)
5. Plastic Man - Annoying
6. Guy Gardner - Never liked him and never will. Another victim of Giffen
7. Batgirl - (New version) Babs is the only Batgirl we need, I don't like cheap imitations.
8. Triplicate Girl - all 1,000,000,000,000,000,000 of her.
9. Katana - Don't need no angry females with swords. Maybe she could just go to Marvel and die a slow miserable death.
10. Hal Jordan - Should have stayed dead.
11. Flash Jay Garrick - He's gotta be about 100 by now, put him out of MY misery.
12. Any YJ charecter that did not make it into the Titans...Arrowette, Empress, Slobo, Lagoon Boy, etc. (Where did they come up with these crappy names?)
13. Matter Eater Lad - So people on this board will stop requesting his come back.
14. The Titans of Myth - They have done enough damage to Donna Troy and should never be seen again.
15. Flamebird - No one is ever going to do anything with her anyway.
16. All the shark villians - ridiculous idea and copied far too much for my taste.
17. Pete Ross - Eh, why not!
18. Big Barda and Mr. Miracle - Never understood these two.
19. Any winged character except for Hawkman, woman, girl, Dawnstar, and Shikari
20. New Firestorm - If they couldn't give Ronnie his own book, they shouldn't have given one to this cheap imitation.
21. Magenta - Whiny little b*tch. "I don't want these powers, I want to be normal and will force you, Wally, to be normal too." Yeesh!

And for no particular reason, other than to thin the herd: Captain Atom, Animal Man, Adam Strange, Atomic Knight, Black Hawks, Shining Knight, Doll MAn, Amazo, The Manhunters, Orion, Omega Men, New Gods, Steel, Apach Chief, Gorilla Grodd, Mon. Mallah and the Brain, Bizarro, Ambush Bug, John Stewart GL, Fire & Ice (yeah I know one of them is dead, just don't know which one)

This was fun!! I'm sure if I had more time I could list at least 100 more. I know that most of these characters will live, but hey, it is MY wish list!!

Phantom Girl isn't a 'bitch'. She's a strong willed forceful person (hark at me talking about fictional characters as if they were real people! but you know what I mean) with a streak of haugtiness and bossiness in there. But flaws like that are what makes a character interesting and makes for good interaction and conflict with the other characters. If she was a man she would be just peachy for not suffering fools gladly. But because she's a woman she's a bitch. Yeah right.

Katana an 'angry woman with a sword'? That is a very superficial reading of the character. Tatsu is very calm, calculating and ruthless. She certainly should be angry with her past. But in fact she's about the reverse of 'angry'. Sounds like you have a problem with women being forceful in general.

Magenta a whiny little bitch? Frances was a broken damaged person. That was the whole point of her story. Sounds like you missed the point of it. Again with calling women bitches?? Pardon me but I find that offensive as a woman. Why the hatred and contempt for women? I don't see a similar level of venom aimed at male characters here.

And if you think the JLI characters are fit only to be killed off then you missed out on some of the most three dimensional well developed characters (they practically had souls by the end!and then Dan Jurgens came along and they turned into cardboard cutouts overnight *sigh*) that were ever written. Your loss.

*shakes head sadly*

/is of the nobody should be killed off ever almost school of thought/

/is still upset that Ice's death was one of the very few DCU deaths to stick../

/thinks Hal Jordan and Ollie Queen should have stayed dead. And why couldn't Tora have got into that DCU heaven revolving door? And Arisia too! dammit!/

ew i forgot about plastic man, he deserves worse than death...he deserves to be striken from continuity and never spoken of again. replace elongated man my butt...

All I can say is that I'm glad most of you guys aren't working for DC.

Just FYIing (cause its fun and educational), here are all of the women who appeared before Wonder Woman in ALL STAR COMICS #8 (JAN 1942):

Rose Psychic (a non-costumed, but super-powered associate to Dr. Occult) appeared MORE FUN COMICS #19 (MAR 1937), published by a fledgling DC Comics.

Another non-costumed, but super-powered female sidekick was Princess Taia from Fawcett Publications' (now owned by DC) WHIZ COMICS #2 (FEB 1940).

The very first costumed woman in comics was The Woman in Red (Peggy Allen) from THRILLING COMICS #2 (MAR 1940), published by Better/Nedor/Standard.

In the SPRING of 1940, the Cat (Selina Kyle) made her first appearance in BATMAN #1. She wasn't called Catwoman until the next issue (SUMMER 1940). She didn't appear in costume until #3 (WINTER 1940).

Miss X (Margaret Janice “Peggy” Maloney) from the Mister America strip in ACTION COMICS #26 (Jul 1940).

Next is Owl Girl (Bell Wayne - sidekick to the Owl) from CRACKAJACK FUNNIES #25 (JUL 1940) published by Dell.

Black Widow (Claire Voyant) from MYSTIC COMICS #4 (AUG 1940) published by Timely.

Super Ann Starr, the World's Strongest Girl is from AMAZING-MAN COMICS #24 (OCT 1940) published by Centaur.

DC's first heroine is the Red Tornado (Ma Hunkle) from ALL-AMERICAN COMICS #20 (NOV 1940).

The second costumed heroine to debut that is now owned by DC is USA, the spirit of Old Glory. She first appeared in FEATURE COMICS #42 (MAR 1941) published by Quality.

Bulletgirl (Susan Kent), Bulletman's sidekcick and now owned by DC, first appeared in MASTER COMICS #13 (APR 1941).

Miss Fury (Marla Drake) appeared in newspapers eight months before Wonder Woman in April 1941 [created by a woman no less - Tarpé (actually June) Mills]. These were later reprinted as the comic book MISS FURY (Winter 1942/43 - Winter 1946) published by Timely (but not owned by Marvel today).

Three months later was Hawkgirl (Shiera Sanders) from ALL STAR COMICS #5 (JUN/JUL 1941) published by All-American - later DC.

The next month, August, debuted six new female costumed heroines.

Black Cat (Linda Turner) from POCKET COMICS #1 (AUG 1941) published by Harvey. You can still get reprints of her adventures here .

Miss America (Joan Dale) first appeared in Military Comics #1, August 1941. She was a Quality Comics character, now, of course, owned by DC.

Miss Victory (Joan Wayne) from CAPTAIN FEARLESS #1 (AUG 1941) was published by Holyoke.

Pat Patriot - America's Joan of Arc from DAREDEVIL COMICS #2 (AUG 1941) was published by Lev Gleason.

Spider Queen (Shannon Kane) from THE EAGLE #2 (AUG 1941) published by Fox Features. She used spider webbing to swing from place to place. Sound familiar?

And, Wildfire (Carol Vance Martin) from SMASH COMICS #25 (AUG 1941) published by Quality - owned by DC.

Next is Kitten (Katie Conn), Catman's sidekick from CATMAN COMICS #5 (SEP 1941) published by Holyoke.

Blue Lady (Lucille Martin) from AMAZING-MAN COMICS #24 (OCT 1941) published by Centaur.

The Flame's sidekick Flame Girl (Linda Dale) from WONDERWORLD COMICS (OCT 1941) published by Fox Features.

Madame Strange from GREAT COMICS #1 (NOV 1941) published by Great Comics.

Lady Fairplay (Mary Lee) from BANG-UP COMICS #1 (DEC 1941) published by Progressive.

Lady Satan from DYNAMIC COMICS #2 (DEC 1941) published by Harry 'A' Chesler.

And finally in January of 1942 (the same month as Wonder Woman), Spider Widow (Dianne Grayton) from FEATURE COMICS #57 published by Quality and thus owned now by DC, appeared. She wore a witch's face and a long black dress. She had a male costume-wearing sidekick named the Raven and teamed up a time or two with the Phantom Lady.

I did find LegionFan to be a little bitter in regard to some of these characters. I have a complete disagreement about the "bitch" characters. From his main list, I think Flamebird is the only one I could agree to kill off. I would *never* kill Animal Man, and anyone who thinks that should happen clearly never read Morrison's Animal Man book. I have to admit I wouldn't mind thinning out the Golden Age crowd, but mostly because I like seeing the torch passed. I was disappointed when Rex Tyler returned.

I won't go into any characters in particular (much as I dislike some of them), but will say that, as long as so many hero(ines) are going to be killed off, there HAS TO be a proportional number of villains disposed of in comparison.
Read: If there's five villains for every three heroes, then five should die for every three heroes that die.

Nightcrawler, I'm quite impressed, but you forgot one:

Miss America (Joan Dale) first appeared in Military Comics #1, August 1941. She was a Quality Comics character, now, of course, owned by DC.

Oops! Thanks! I'll edit her in.