Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Reboot Re-read: DnA Legion

re Tinya and Jo, well at least they actually bring it out in the open now. Finally! Ok, they get interrupted, but at least....!

Oh, that's cool!! - I'll have to see if I can dig those up.


Indeed - and I didn't mention this, as I honestly don't remember where this goes, but we see a larger cub dropping out of the q sphere. I won't say anything yet other than the good old Star Wars refrain - "I Have a Bad Feeling about this."

oh yeah, I remember that. this issue really upped the ante, what with Star Boy turning into a black hole, and Kid Quantum II left in an ominous position with Darkseid looming over her..

Interesting thing about that, now that you mention it. Her face off with Darksied was purely imaginary at the end of the day, but I guess her mental condition was enough to mess with Cub's field.

So oddly enough - I was able to track these posts down, and I can see some of the preview, but when I select the message, the text doesn't appear.

Here's some links:

HWW's Off the Cuff Review

Mystery Lad's Fall Out

EDE finally reads it!

Also, Mystery Lad on the first two parts of Dream Crime

Thanks, EDE - Yes I found yours and Lightning Lad's using the search function, but nothing showed when I clicked the search result. Maybe I should just go to the link direct in the future...

now that you mention it...

either Kid Q was knocked unconscious, or more likely, she was really using every ounce of her power on an imaginary/illusory enemy

huh come to think of it, we saw many Legionnaires use their powers destructively in illusion world, but when Shikari sees through things, everyone is just standing there. of course, Kari and Sensor do get attacked, and real damage is done, later

did Universo perhaps ensure, that nobody was really using their powers (unless he specifically commanded them to)? maybe even Cub's bubble popping was an illusion. Maybe he only had Mon and company really use their powers to take Shikari and Sensor out. after all, if he didn't ensure that, then there would have been mass death and destruction...

Wow, it was fascinating reading these 18 year old reviews. Mystery Lad's was great, although he mixes Zoe for Shvaughn in the dream sequence. Lightning Lad's was eerily close to mine, although I graded it better. I may be over-compensating for my DnA reactions.

EDIT/ADDENDUM - It was also fun to see HWW's reactions all those years ago to the same issues, as well as MLLASH's (RIP )

Well, I looked at it in a couple of ways. With Jazmin I looked at it in a Matrix-y way in that if you believe that you are hurt in the dream world, that would manifest in the real. So Jazmin is believing that her powers are drained against Darkseid, therefore her real body also thinks so and cub's sphere goes out of control. Of course that's happening while Jo and Tinya are fighting imaginary parademons, so whatever.

As to the Legionnaires in tranced, I took that as Universo being able to fine tune his control. Generally he's projecting a mass illusion, but then he's later able to control them to attack Kari and Jeka to a limited degree, as the controlled Legionnaires generally are not that accurate, and Jeka can even trip up M'Onel. And her sudden strength is a new deal, isn't it?

Sensor's sudden strength confuses me. Versus Robotica (was it issue 14?) and on Xanthu (issue 17?) she is seen smashing Robotican drones. I don't think we've ever seen her display such a show of strength earlier in the Reboot - she has constricted living being before (most notably the Pernisius story, LSH 116-117). She also tried to squeeze Ferro in iron form (Legionnaires 59), but Ferro was shown as being stronger than her.

I have difficulty gauging her strength levels, but it does seem as though DNA had already stealth-increased her strength. Or maybe they assumed a certain strength level...

Yeah, its strange, and I'm not sure what was going on there.

My assumption is that they just didn't understand a lot of characters, two in particular, so they just made stuff up and hand waved it away before fundamentally changing them.

The Legion #22

Released July 30, 2003
DC Comics, Color
22 Pages

Dream Crime Part Four
Dan Abnett & Andy Lanning - Writers
Chris Batista - Pencils
Mark Farmer - Inks
Jason Wright - Colors
Stephen Wacker - Editor

Synopsis

Issue 22's background roll gets us up to speed and features Karate Kid, Ferro, Shikari and Sensor before diving right into the story with Universo himself. Universo is becoming a control addict. What started as a means to escape and take over the UP is growing into the need to control more. He has Saturn Girl and Dreamer hostage in some kind of telepathy chairs. The rest of the Legion is coming through the portals to Titan and be in person with Universo.

Shikari and Sensor float through the warp space, Sensor lost and flailing when Shikari comes to her rescue. They fall out of the portal on Steeple and collapse on the ground to be found by a mysterious figure.

On Titan, Universo dialogs how he used the threat of Darkseid to disguise his own threat via Dreamer. Saturn Girl starts to resist Universo's influence. He muses about her threat to him and how she was elevated while he was locked away as a child. The construction of Titanet was the way out for Universo, enabling him to find a way out of his prison due to the sheer concentration of telepathic power and his ability to tap it.

Shikari and Sensor wake up on Steeple with Val and Andy. Sensor recognizes them immediately, but they have not seen the new Sensor, nor Shikari, so are very confused. Sensor projects an image of her old form to remind them. Jeka gives a quick recap of who made it home from Legion Lost, then tells the news of Universo. Val and Kari bond a bit and go to reset the Threshold portal that Brainy had sent to them. Andy summarizes his Legion World issue to Jeka and explains why he's not lying on a slab; the priests healed Andy, but he's now stuck being metal permanently. The priests have created some kind of circlet, based on Andy's design, to wear that blocks against mental attacks and hands one over to Ferro. The four Legionnaires threshold to Titan.

They appear wearing the circlets around their necks in the Titanet control room to find Universo with the rest of the Legionnaires hovering around the central power outlet. Universo sics his controlled Legionnares on the newcomers; Vi grows, Lyle goes invisible, Jo moves to attack, all three seeing the new arrivals as Apokalyptians. Sensor throws Ferro at Violet's gut then taking her down then takes down Kinetix, Shikari knocks out Invisible Kid, Val handles Jo before the rest of the Legion swarms in. Ferro is immune to Wildfire's attack, and Val faces off against Tri-jistu Triad. In the end, M'Onel takes out Sensor, Apparition takes down Karate Kid, and Spark zaps Ferro. Shikari goes for Universo but he gets the mental upper hand and is shown victorious.

Commentary

While the art is still an all star hit that really does a great job, the Dream Crime story here takes a bit of a field trip to Steeple so that Kari and Jeka's bogus journey can pick up Andy and Val, which seems to be the main function of this issue. The one neat thing about the initial Titan sequence is that we discover that Titanet was the way out for Universo. The travel sequence with Kari and Jeka was interestingly laid out, but the call out of reaching out with her arms kind of fell flat to me given that Jeka had already used them to effect earlier. Then we stop on Steeple for several pages of exposition and plot surprises:

Andy's all metal, all the time, which makes me revisit the whole "why did someone put Andy's helmet back on before healing him" issue. But hey, at least Andy can design some kind of mind control blocker on the fly and have four of them built in a day. (?)

Jeka does yet another, hopefully the last, overview of Legion Lost for Val and Andy.

Oh, Brainy had somehow sent a threshold way before issue 19 with instructions! Imagine that!

It seemed to me that this was a lot of filler that could have been included in four issues if more tightly edited. This was very likely written with a TPB in mind, and so the gaps needed to get Val and Andy needed to be stretched out a bit more than they needed to. The whole Brainy/

The action definitely picks back up when the group heads to Titan and the foursome fights their controlled comrades, although it begs the question how they knew to go there when their originally intended destination was Metropolis.

Other random thoughts:

Kinteix is controlled by Computo? Really? Honestly I even have a challenge with Brainy being controlled. Chuck?

Hm... Titanet seems to be as vulnerable to certain threats as RJ's old stargate system was. I wonder if the UP will do something about that?

Good continuity check where Andy needs Jeka to throw him at Violet - Val has his flight ring.

Grade: C+. Great art, but the plot is filler and only is served to grab two characters out of limbo.

Thanks for digging up these old reviews, EDE.

I wonder why I only reviewed #21. Clearly, I had intended to do more.

The exchange in my thread about padding out stories is still relevant to DnA's run. Some stories could have been quicker and more concise, but they wouldn't have gotten the Legion into book chains. However, this does make me appreciate the two-part Fatal Five story even more. Speaking of which . . .

I'm behind in these reviews but finally had a chance to re-read # 16. I agree with Gaseous Lad that it's an enjoyable story. Even though it's not as consequential as other stories of this era, I think it's brilliant as a Timber Wolf spotlight. I'm liking this Brin Londo more and more--which is a huge feat since I was indifferent to the preboot version. Brin is tough and feisty, but also very smart. When did he have time to steal the Fatal Five's ship's reactor interface? Well no matter, he did. And he was also smart enough to realize that if the Persuader's axe could cut through energy, it could also damage the Eye.

I do like these stories because they treat the characters as psychologically complex and they don't spell everything out for the reader. For instance, Mano's return to the Fatal Five is unexplained, but it's stated that the Five sprung Tharok so they can retrieve the "prize," whatever that is. In their dialogue, it's clear that the Five feel their days as criminals are numbered due to the rise of the UP and return of the Legion. While it is not stated, it seems their motivation is to retire comfortably. This aspect is a callback to Superboy # 219, where the Five had similar motives.

Also, it's interesting that Mano functions as leader before Tharok revives but then returns to a subordinate role. Mano is portrayed as a much more competent leader. Tharok, by contrast, alienates his teammates by insulting them and expressing no gratitude for their rescue of him. (His comment about killing them if they expressed sentimentality was amusing.) It's no wonder that the Five's teamwork fell apart. Tharok literally brings out the worst in them. Mano, arguably, brought out the best.

Kev Walker's art had its highs and lows for me. In the battle sequences, the uneven panel borders reminded me of Giffen's work around the time of the Omen/Prophet storyline (LSH # 307-310), when he abandoned conventional comic book art for a more experimental approach. Walker's take on this approach is more coherent--usually. Some panels left me perplexed. Is Brin striking himself in the head with the axe on Page 14? The characters are not attractive, but they're not meant to be. Walker was going for emotion and mood. For the most part, I felt he succeeded--though his art lacks the finesse of Coipel's later efforts.

A few other things of note:

1. I appreciated the repeat of Brin's "N-not in my nature . . ." dialogue on Page 7. This line was also used in the previous issue, but now we see it in context.

2. Tharok's facepalm on Page 11 was also a fun moment. This guy truly is a lousy leader. But there's no accounting for who people vote for.

3. Why is Brin shouting to the Five on Page 11? Wouldn't he give away his position?

4. In another nod to not spelling things out for the reader, I love it that we didn't have to see the newly arrived Legionnaires take down the Five. We can figure out what happened, and Jaz fills us in on the lingering issue of whether Brin killed the Eye.

5. The misspelling of "action" was a fun way to end it.

Re Legion 22, I did like that little bit with Sensor and Ferro talking about the recent changes to them. Sensor throwing Ferro, and Ferro apologising to Vi, were nice touches

Also Brin misspelling Action, and Jasmin walking away with that as her only comment on his report - funny. And I appreciated Brin making an effort to follow the no kill rule, even worrying about the Emerald Eye

Got to reread this issue before commenting further, but that line just brought up a vision of Wile E. Coyote unpacking an Acme Threshold Machine and blowing up Steeple.

Well, I know I'm glad that you are here to participate this time round!



And he's fun. He doesn't take himself too seriously, which is a stark contrast to his fellow angst-ridden Legionnaires that have been through the ringer.


This is a great point. Tharok's his own worst enemy.



Another good point - I had marked that in my reading notes, but didn't mention that. Thanks for pulling that out!


Well it was the Legion against the two left. That wouldn't have been fun to watch.

On to #17-18

I agree that this two-parter is built on a ridiculous plot. And the plot is built on a flimsy premise:

D: Let's change Sensor!
A: But how do we do it?
D: I know, let's have Ra's al Ghul run amok on the station for two issues and finally agree to help.
A: Brilliant!

When I saw the cover of #17--as well done and moody as it was--I groaned. I am so over Ra's al Ghul being in this book. The set-up is very good, though. M'Onel's conflicted feelings about approaching Ra's are palpable, and there's a nice hook of him asking Ra's for help. Then we flash back three hours earlier. So far, so good.

I appreciate the developments in Thom and Nura's relationship, and how Thom feels that she's embarrassed because he survived. Thom doesn't know about her dream of his headstone, so it's very perceptive of him to pick on this emotion. And Nura . . . well, maybe she is embarrassed. A Dreamer can't be wrong . . . not with military operations and whatnot depending on her.

While I love Jenni (although she's too light-skinned here), I would like to have seen more of Sensor during the Xanthu scenes . . . you know, so we could care about her before she is almost killed. Mon, Cham, and others care about her, but I don't. I'm not given any reason to. I have to think back to my previous experience with the character to have any sort of association with her. So, although the story is about her transformation, it's not about her. And that's a shame.

For the most part, the story is well-paced and exciting, but it doesn't make a lot of sense. I can buy Ra's faking his own death--but just barely. Knowing that he was coming, even on such short notice, why didn't Kid Quantum order more Legionnaires to be present? The reason: So, Ra's' casualties can be sci cops (whom we don't know or care about), and to minimize the chance of anyone actually being able to stop him. This is just one of many plot conveniences in which characters are forced to do what the story dictates and not what they would actually do. Good call, Ibby, about Thom not using his power to pin all the clones to the floor. We know he could do it--he's done many more impressive feats with his gravity powers. Good call, GL, about Mon being taken down by a naked old man whom we are explicitly told has no meta powers. Good call about Gates being weak after he teleports only two additional people. Why do these things happen? Because the plot sez so.

In order to (re-)establish Ra's as a credible, Darkseid-level threat, the Legionnaires have to look like chumps. And Darkseid al Ghul is so powerful, he cannot be defeated. He gives up when realizes he has nowhere else to go. I suppose I'm meant to feel sympathetic because he has nothing to look forward to but endless conflict and that he has no friends to fight for him as the Legion fights for Sensor, but such pathos is unearned. I also guess I'm supposed to feel that Mon has developed a grudging respect for his adversary ("I'll look in on you from time to time"), but I don't understand why he would. DnA have pulled out all of the action movie tropes without asking why the characters would do what they do.


Yes, there was an awful lot of Treknobabble throughout the story. When Ra's uses terms like "herpetoform genome," "retroposons," and "transcriptase" in the space of two panels, I know the writers are either trying to impress me with their language skills or baffle me with bullshit.


Oh, it's definitely Cham. He's toying with the clone. No idea about the squid, though. It would have been funnier if he had imitated Batman.


And sadly accurate.

I'm also glad for all your contributions, HWW, GL, and now FC discussing these issues with you has helped bring in fresh perspectives.

I do agree, Mon being conflicted re approaching Ra's was well-done. Then it all goes south.

I absolutely agree, HWW, about all the other plot conveniences you listed. Just so we could get to Sensor's transformation. Ra's does so many incredible things, that it comes off as character shilling rather than him being a worthy adversary! I can't feel an ounce of liking or sympathy for his character, and the detente at the end seems unearned.


funny image, FC!

I hadn't thought about her reticence from a political/strategic sense, but you're absolutely right here.


Yep. At this point, halfway through the series and over the halfway mark for DnA on this title, one of the consistent elements is that they focus on characterization of about half the Legion, in a way very similar to Bendis. DnA, tend to at least spread out the actionable dialog, but Sensor is someone that got left in the dust. I'd love to find out what their rationale was for the Sensor change, but there was quite a bit penned about her character and voice in the prior run that these writers simply chose to ignore. Sensor was kind of a one-trick pony that served two uses, and they couldn't seem to figure out how to tap into her non-SF talents again. I dunno. We know that the were ordered by editorial fiat to kill off Monstress, but this change is a bit of a mystery to me, as so far as I read through Dream Crime, I can't find anything that she couldn't have done in her original snake form.

The other reason for this issue, and again it would be great to hear from Abnett, Lanning or Wacker about this, is to put to bed the Terrorform nonsense, with the exception of Zoe. As McAvennie was sacked at the tail end of Robotica, I'd guess that Wacker had to deal with what was in the story pipeline before he could truly take control, so he was probably trying to tie up the loose ends of the M/D/A plotlines before moving on to other things.


You've just distilled two whole issues into one sentence. This was masterful.


Preach!


Exactly, and this is what I was kind of expecting. At least have his face morphed to a Batman-like cowl or something...

"Brainiac 5.1..... SUUUPER GEEENIUS...."

Re: the Sensor change, I appreciated it. She became exotic and beautiful and alien but it was no fairy tale. She hated her appearance and voiced her bitterness in her snarky, sarcastic attitude. Sneckie was a bit of a bad joke (and then they brought out the raccoons!) so this transformation into a more alien form lent her some tragic weight as a character. They didn't do much with it, though. She could have gone all boa constrictor on Ra's.

Ra's in the 31st century seemed like a sales gimmick. I would have been more impressed if it had actually been batsh*t crazy McCauley doing all this.

I can't know DnA's reasons for focusing on certain characters and marginalizing others, but I may be able to offer some insights. A decade prior to this run, I was studying screenwritng in graduate school, and one of the things I grudgingly learned is that a story (at least from a traditional perspective) is usually one character's tale. Most movies feature just one protagonist, and the story is about this character's change from where they were at the beginning of the story to where they end up at the end. (The classic example is Wizard of Oz, where Dorothy learns, "There's no place like home.")

It was hard for me accept this because I grew up on comics like the Legion, the Avengers, and the JLA, where there were multiple heroes and each hero had his or her own fans. Writers bent over backwards to give every character something meaningful to do, and this often led to challenges in stories, such as Superman being portrayed as less powerful and resourceful in JLA than he was in his own series. Coming up with menaces that could keep an entire superteam busy was a problem many writers complained about.

Abnett and Lanning seem to be approaching the Legion from this traditional perspective of storytelling. They have focused on a small core team of Legionnaires who fit the needs of their plots while others are treated like supporting or background characters. It's for this reason, I think, that Vi only appears as a giant. DnA have done nothing with her character except remind us that she's there. Lyle appears when the story calls for him to do something substantive. In #18, for instance, he recruits Star Boy for the latter's expertise on gravity. But Lyle has nothing else to do in the story.

For us fans, it's enormously frustrating to see our favorite characters marginalized (and they are all our favorites to one extent or another), but I do think the storylines are more cohesive (#17-18 notwithstanding). I imagine DnA intended to get around to focusing on everyone eventually, but for one reason or another, that didn't happen. Umbra was sent packing to Talok when her powers failed. Val and Andy have been marooned on Steeple until the story needed them. Spark, though emphasized earlier, has pretty much faded into the background during the last several issues. At least no one has vanished without explanation as happens on TV shows.

I don't necessarily support DnA's choices, but I think it's worth imagining things from their POV as writers. They were brought in to make major changes to the franchise and broaden its appeal. Whether they succeeded, it's clear from their efforts that they were trying a different approach to Legion storytelling.


Again, just speculating here, but I imagine DnA noticed what I mentioned earlier: The presence of a talking snake with robot arms just looks silly in the serious sci fi environment they wanted to project. If you're a casual reader, and you pick up this comic book called The Legion that has superheroes, science fiction, and a Batman villain, and, as you flip through the issue on the stands, you see a giant snake . . . what are you supposed to think? I imagine that's why they didn't emphasize Sensor until now.


Thank you!

I guess. The Sneckie thing was more a challenge for the longer-term readers, I think. It had been shown that she could be a well written and integral part of the team (the Mordru and Pernisius stories come immediately to mind - the latter of which literally had me scared for her at the time!). All this transformation did was give her an 'edge' which indicates to me that the writers didn't "get" her, so she had to be changed. I do think the design is neat, though. (As an aside note - the event which ultimately transforms Sensor also serves to prevent Kinetix returning back to normal, so two characters that the writers couldn't handle are fundamentally altered).

Sensor's reaction to the change was definitely well done and grounded. I just question the need for it.


You're right, and OMG I really think it being McCauley all along would have been a great story. I mean, having a buffonish sociopathic CEO take over as the president of a major political entity would be great fiction, right?

FC - I love the idea of a deranged McCauley doing all this stuff. Would have been more interesting than smug old Ra's.

HWW - thanks for adding some perspective on WHY DNA might be doing something or other. As a fanfic writer myself, I agree that it can be difficult to juggle a large cast, shifting focus from small group to small group, to give everyone sufficient screen time. I imagine it's tougher to do in a visual medium like a comic book with a limited page count per month, than in say a novel (where one can control the page count a bit more).