Roll Call
0 members (), 28 Murran Spies, and 7 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Time-Scope
Legion of Super-Heroes #7 (2020) - Preview and Spoilers
by Invisible Brainiac - 04/27/24 02:15 AM
Inane one word posts XXXIV - inanity
by Invisible Brainiac - 04/27/24 02:11 AM
Kill This Thread LI - Already???
by Invisible Brainiac - 04/27/24 02:10 AM
So, what are you listening to?
by Gaseous Lad - 04/26/24 08:03 PM
I'm Thinking of a DCU character Part 6!
by Invisible Brainiac - 04/26/24 06:56 AM
Wheel of Fortune / Hangman Season 3
by Invisible Brainiac - 04/26/24 06:55 AM
DC/Marvel Crossovers to be collected in 2024
by Ann Hebistand - 04/25/24 08:21 AM
Omnicom
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 14 1 2 3 13 14
Re-Reading the Legion: Archives #2
#769585 04/29/13 12:02 AM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 40,322
Trap Timer
OP Offline
Trap Timer
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 40,322
Continued from this thread.

Pretty much the same as the last thread, only we've decided to slow the pace down to three stories a week in order to give more people a chance to participate and more time to comment on one anothers' reviews.

So, for roughly the next month, we'll be reading the stories in Archives #2. That includes Adventure 306-312, Jimmy Olsen 72, and Adventure 313-317.

Feel free to join us!


Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives #2
Eryk Davis Ester #769586 04/29/13 03:44 AM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,660
Leader
Offline
Leader
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,660
You might mention the issues covered for those of us who don't have the Archives. I just have the originals.


Buy my new graphic novel!
http://www.dodeka12.com
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives #2
Eryk Davis Ester #769588 04/29/13 05:01 AM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,660
Leader
Offline
Leader
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,660
So I just reread this story on screen. It's the first time I've read a whole comic story that way. I've been scanning my Adventure collection and I'm up to Adv. 373.

The splash page of Adv. 306, The Legion of Substitute Heroes, is kind of humorous. Night Girl's legs are too short for her torso and Polar Boy is so tiny he looks like a midget.

It's kind of odd seeing such now well-known characters as Polar Boy, Night Girl, and Chlorophyl Kid showing up for a Legion tryout for the first time as unknown applicants.

I love the instant blankets that appear automatically when Polar Boy demonstrates his power. A beta version of the Legion's protective transuits that would appear much later, perhaps?

It cracks me up the way they used such perfect grammar back in these stories. Both Bouncing Boy and Night Girl say, "And I, too." instead of "me too" as most people would say colloquially.

Interesting that Mon-El is already so well known throughout the galaxy, having only left the Phantom Zone to become a Legionnaire the issue before. Night Girl's father says her strength is second only to his and Superboy's. Does that make her stronger than Supergirl? Or is this just another instance of her being overlooked in the Legionverse? I guess Ultra Boy doesn't have ultra strength yet at this time and Lone Wolf's scientist father hasn't given him his strength yet, so we don't know how they compare. Ironic that sunlight grants the super-cousins their strength, but robs Lydda of hers.

I love that Stone Boy's whole family dresses alike, as well as Polar Boy's whole community apparently. Why in the heck are they all wearing parkas in a desert?

It's a good thing Fire Lad was wearing a costume with flames all over it the day he got his powers! Made it easier for the gods to decide who to give flame breath to I'm sure!

I wonder who owns that mountain the Subs have laid claim to. Shirley, there's not a speck of unclaimed land left on Earth by the 30th century!

The plant men are said to be intelligent and they're obviously alive. So aren't the Subs committing murder by burning their seeds? They'll never get into the Legion that way!

Poor Stone Boy. Always moping about how useless he was. Makes you wonder how he got up the gumption to try out in the first place.

Finally on the last page! The SCIENCE Police!

There are 3 letters in the Smallville Mailsack relating to the Legion, all commenting on Lightning Lad's death. Two were in favor, one opposed. The last one wanted to know when we get to see how the Kents die. Bloodthirsty little tyke wasn't he?


Buy my new graphic novel!
http://www.dodeka12.com
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives #2
Eryk Davis Ester #769591 04/29/13 06:00 AM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 34,634
Bold Flavors
Offline
Bold Flavors
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 34,634
So here we go: Archives #2! And kicking things off is my favorite of all the Silver Age Legion writers, Edmond Hamilton. We'll discuss Hamilton's many virtues as we go through the stories so I'll hold off on any broad commentary for now; however I will say that my favorite type of Hamilton story is "heroism from unlikely places" / "outsider finding his place in society" stories. Hamilton's emphasis on this type of story really helped the Legion as a franchise refine its identity.

With Forte, my favorite Legion artist, and Hamilton, my favorite Legion writer, this is going to be fun!

Hamilton's first story touches on hat I say above by introducing one of the great elements of the Silver Age Legion: the Legion of Substitute Heroes. To me they are the ultimate "losers and failures prove their heroism by sheer courage and determination". Nobody captures this better than Polar Boy, who Forte smartly depicts as small and in the vein of a "100 lbs weakling".

Even though by now he was basically washed up in Hollywood, I wonder if Mickey Rooney provided any inspiration for Brek?

The Avenue of the Super-Heroes! The Sun Boy statue was remade after all!

Note Brek says "a few people" on Tharr have developed this power--not everyone. Thus, my theory Olen Jor did not have ice powers, but Jan Jor did!

Night Girl appears as perhaps the most glamorous Forte girl yet! Simply beautiful and statuesque. And while her hair style is squarely appropriate for 1962-63, her chic airings and rather fashion forward costume are pretty great. But my favorite bit is the little owl and its funny eyes.

The other three Subs are even more likely to be rejected. Though he looks the most noble (and later shows it), Stone Boy's power is pretty weak. Meanwhile I'm amused the Legion thought Fire Lad might cause "accidental holocausts". And is this Gold K landing in front of him? Poor Chlor never had a chance with a piece of broccoli as his uniform emblem, even if his origin is a low key Swamp Thing type story.

Artificially evolved sea monsters?!! What in the name of Jurassic Park?!!

Good to see Colossal Boy being prolific this issue!

Are the Plant Men distant cousins of the Treemen of Arbo?

Hamilton really ups the tension as the story comes to a close. Things go wrong and the Subs seem hopelessly outmatched. Yet Polar Boy almost wills their success!

And the ending is great: they succeed but no one knows. Yet, they have not done this for accolades. They've done it to win back their self-respect and carve out a place in society for themselves. Truly a heroic tale!

Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives #2
Eryk Davis Ester #769594 04/29/13 07:07 AM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 34,634
Bold Flavors
Offline
Bold Flavors
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 34,634
Something else else I really like about the 2nd Archive in general, and we'll see the specifics of this, is that it tells too concurrent storylines throughout.

The first is the story of the Subs, as they are highly prolific throughout 1963 and 1964. Hamilton obviously had a lot to say on the subject and while he'd later showcase some other super-outcasts (Beast Boy, Lone Wolf, etc), he had a real affinity for the Subs.

The second story is what I'd refer to as the final steps to establish the "classic line-up". Over a series of issues now we'll get: Element Lad, Lightning Lass, Jimmy Olsen's Honorary Membership, Lightning Lad's resurrection, and then to cap it all off, they'll finally remember the forgotten Star Boy and return him to the team (and in the same story convert Ayla to Light Lass). Ultra Boy also emerged from the 2nd Archive with his classic power set. It's basically the final steps to get the classic Legion firmed up.

From there of course, there is a slow and steady series of tragedies until the great "restore everyone to their proper role" two-parter with Evillo (that also ropes in Dream Girl finally). But that story is wrapped up right in the middle of the "Shooter's 4" story arc and is a ways off.

Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives #2
Eryk Davis Ester #769595 04/29/13 07:13 AM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 34,634
Bold Flavors
Offline
Bold Flavors
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 34,634
Jim brought up the Subs HQ--I think we've speculated before that its the original JLA HQ!

Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives #2
jimgallagher #769599 04/29/13 08:05 AM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 40,322
Trap Timer
OP Offline
Trap Timer
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 40,322
Originally Posted by jimgallagher
You might mention the issues covered for those of us who don't have the Archives. I just have the originals.


Good idea. I added it to the first post!


Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives #2
Eryk Davis Ester #769602 04/29/13 08:58 AM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,660
Leader
Offline
Leader
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,660
Yay! Silver age Legiony goodness! I wish we could just pick up where Adv. 380 left off in a new ongoing series, similar to X-men First Class.


Buy my new graphic novel!
http://www.dodeka12.com
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives #2
Eryk Davis Ester #769604 04/29/13 11:27 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 4,188
Legionnaire!
Offline
Legionnaire!
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 4,188
The kids and I always laugh at the Fire Lad costume bit.

I'll just wear a flame-motif costume in the trillion-to-one chance i get struck by a meteor that gives me fire-based powers of some sort. Oh cool, it happened. Hmmm, maybe I should have played the lotto instead.

Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives #2
Eryk Davis Ester #769606 04/29/13 01:06 PM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,660
Leader
Offline
Leader
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,660
Yes, the same thing happens in 2 issues with the flashback to Lightning Lad's origin. I think I"ll wear my lightning costume today just in case I get charged with lightning powers . . .


Buy my new graphic novel!
http://www.dodeka12.com
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives #2
Eryk Davis Ester #769607 04/29/13 01:11 PM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,660
Leader
Offline
Leader
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,660
Can I post an image instead of a link? Or do I have to be a moderator?


Buy my new graphic novel!
http://www.dodeka12.com
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives #2
jimgallagher #769608 04/29/13 01:36 PM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 11,185
#deleteFacebook
Offline
#deleteFacebook
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 11,185
Originally Posted by jimgallagher
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...0.100002429765454&type=1&theater[/img]

Can I post an image instead of a link? Or do I have to be a moderator?

You can post an image, but trying to post a page as if it were an image is never going to work, mod or otherwise!

My advice is just to attach it - save it, and upload it via the "Full Reply Screen" here.


My views are my own and do not reflect those of everyone else... and I wouldn't have it any other way.

Cobalt, Reboot & iB present 21st Century Legion: Earth War .
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives #2
Eryk Davis Ester #769611 04/29/13 01:41 PM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 520
K
Active
Offline
Active
K
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 520
Notice how Night Girl isn't a stalker in the first Subs story?

Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives #2
Eryk Davis Ester #769612 04/29/13 01:48 PM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,660
Leader
Offline
Leader
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,660
How do I attach an image? When I click on the insert image icon, it asks for a URL.


Buy my new graphic novel!
http://www.dodeka12.com
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives #2
jimgallagher #769613 04/29/13 01:58 PM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 11,185
#deleteFacebook
Offline
#deleteFacebook
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 11,185
Originally Posted by jimgallagher
How do I attach an image? When I click on the insert image icon, it asks for a URL.

Attached Images LWAttach.png

My views are my own and do not reflect those of everyone else... and I wouldn't have it any other way.

Cobalt, Reboot & iB present 21st Century Legion: Earth War .
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives #2
Eryk Davis Ester #769614 04/29/13 02:31 PM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,660
Leader
Offline
Leader
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,660
Ah! The light goes on! Thanks, Reboot.

Attached Images firelad.jpg

Buy my new graphic novel!
http://www.dodeka12.com
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives #2
Eryk Davis Ester #769618 04/29/13 04:14 PM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 40,322
Trap Timer
OP Offline
Trap Timer
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 40,322
Adventure 306

Yay! Edmond Hamilton arrives, and his first story is quite successful! Probably my favorite of the series so far!

*Gasp!* We're back in the 21st century! I thought they fixed this last issue... wink

As avid readers of my threads will remember, Hamilton seems to have re-used the name "Tharr" from an earlier Strange Adventures story where the super-hot world of "Thar" invaded Earth.

I love the flight attendant or whatever he is wishing Brek good luck. It's a great little detail that makes you think the entire planet must be rooting for the hometown kid.

Love the Avenue of the Super-Heroes, which expands from the Sun Boy statue a few issues back!

I also really like the idea that only a certain tribe on Polar Boy's planet has cold powers. It's kind of a neat contrast to the entire planets filled with powered people. Dawnstar would later have a similar "not unique but not shared by all her planet" origin.

This is the first issue in which flight belts are actually shown as something distinct from ordinary belts.

Night Girl lifting the Cosmic Boy statue reminds me of Magno Lad similarly lifting Cos's statue years later with a very different group of rejects.

I can't remember if it is Hamilton or Siegel who will later write Night Girl as if she had a full Kryptonian set of powers at night. Anyway, I definitely like the "reverse Kryptonian" nature of her powers being sapped by light rather than derived from it.

Sheesh! Kids these days! Wanting to stay out after dark instead of coming in and entering suspended animation as a stone statue when it's time!

Love Fire-Lad's fire-y looking hair so much more than its later depiction as actual fire.

Ral should have always kept referring to himself as The Chlorophyll Kid! It sounds so much cooler! And they really missed an opportunity by *not* drawing baby Ral in a cute little Chlorophyll onesie!

And the Subs! So much determination! Not sure how Fire Lad speaks his oath while using his power, but whatever...

Love the Subs secret cave HQ!

I believe this is the third time we've seen Gim wrestling something giant?

The Subs keep wanting to help, but aren't needed!

Those Plant-Men are actually pretty scary looking!

Stone Boy is already showing himself as the most self-sacrificing Sub! His bravado actually reminds me quite a bit of Ferro Lad later on.

Nice to see all of the Subs having a role to play in foiling the evil Plant Men plans. I'm not sure creating a massive populations explosion on a planet is the best way to prevent that planet from a tendency towards expansion, though. I guess the point is that they wrecked the equipment.

You'd think the Legionnaires would trace the robot-ships back to their point of origin and find out about the Plant Men as well, and wonder what happened.

Love the final panel of the Subs looking on as the Legionnaires bask in the adoration of the crowd at the parade! And how satisfied they are that they managed to finally save the world in secret!

Anyway, a lot to like about this issue, from the introduction of a new key element to the Legion mythology, to just watching the story of the Subs suffering rejection, then bravely trying to find a way to help, only to fail and fail before finally succeeding!

It's also amazing how well this story works with the Legionnaires as merely an element in the background rather than as the main focus of the story. It was kind of brave to try that at this early a phase in the Legion series.

It's also notable that we get the first reader-created Legion character in the form of Polar Boy this issue, thus helping to start the tradition of the Legion as a series with a very involved fandom. It's arguably the one series in comics where the fans have traditionally had the most involvement in shaping the direction of the series, and that largely begins here with Buddy LaVigne of Northbrook, Ill., and his suggestion of Polar Boy for a new Legionnaire!

Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives #2
Eryk Davis Ester #769619 04/29/13 04:41 PM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,660
Leader
Offline
Leader
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,660
It was Adv. 319 that gives Night Girl x-ray vision, EDE, but no other Kryptonian powers are mentioned. I LOVE having all these issues scanned and at my fingertips!

Attached Images NightGirl.jpg

Buy my new graphic novel!
http://www.dodeka12.com
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives #2
Eryk Davis Ester #769620 04/29/13 04:46 PM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,660
Leader
Offline
Leader
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,660
Originally Posted by Eryk Davis Ester
Adventure 306

And they really missed an opportunity by *not* drawing baby Ral in a cute little Chlorophyll onesie!



LMAO!


Buy my new graphic novel!
http://www.dodeka12.com
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives #2
Cobalt Kid #769621 04/29/13 04:51 PM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,660
Leader
Offline
Leader
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,660
Originally Posted by Cobalt Kid
Jim brought up the Subs HQ--I think we've speculated before that its the original JLA HQ!


Or how about Titans Lair?


Buy my new graphic novel!
http://www.dodeka12.com
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives #2
jimgallagher #769622 04/29/13 05:01 PM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 10,929
Time Trapper
Offline
Time Trapper
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 10,929
Originally Posted by jimgallagher
Ah! The light goes on! Thanks, Reboot.


Wait ..... so he used to dress like that BEFORE he gained fire powers.

That's quite a coincidence.

Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives #2
Eryk Davis Ester #769623 04/29/13 05:04 PM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 10,929
Time Trapper
Offline
Time Trapper
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 10,929
and a bit eccentric.

Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives #2
jimgallagher #769624 04/29/13 05:29 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 484
in hiding
Offline
in hiding
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 484
Originally Posted by jimgallagher
You might mention the issues covered for those of us who don't have the Archives. I just have the originals.


That's OK. The only copies I have of most of these early stories are the Adventure Digest reprints. Talk about eyestrain!


First comic books ever bought: A DC four-for-47-cents grab bag that included Adventure #331. The rest is history.
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives #2
Eryk Davis Ester #769626 04/29/13 07:12 PM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 16,853
Time Trapper
Offline
Time Trapper
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 16,853
It's actually a bit sad to read this first story of the Subs, in which they are so noble and self-sacrificing, and think about how they'll be objects of ridicule later. In this story, they just don't make the cut; the Legionnaires aren't insulting them or laughing at them. Still, it's life on the B-list, forever idolizing the A-list kids.

Polar Boy's personality was developed quite a bit by Hamilton; the other subs didn't stand out as much. Lydda's memorable because she's the only girl (and that beehive!) and Stone Boy is the classic guy who feels useless and proves not to be. Chlor and Fire Lad didn't seem distinctive, but for their powers.

Quote
Hamilton's first story touches on hat I say above by introducing one of the great elements of the Silver Age Legion: the Legion of Substitute Heroes. To me they are the ultimate "losers and failures prove their heroism by sheer courage and determination". Nobody captures this better than Polar Boy, who Forte smartly depicts as small and in the vein of a "100 lbs weakling".


If Brek had been drawn tall and older-looking, I don't know that his enthusiasm would have had the same effect. Here he's like the kid brother or the sidekick who wants to be like his heroes. His determination and success is all the more powerful for him being so small.

Quote
You'd think the Legionnaires would trace the robot-ships back to their point of origin and find out about the Plant Men as well, and wonder what happened.


Really! There could be another untold tale of the Legion in which the Legionnaires learn the truth of who really saved Earth from that invasion.


Quote
Notice how Night Girl isn't a stalker in the first Subs story?


She just hasn't openly admitted it! But she chose Cosmic Boy's statue to lift. Imagine if she had chosen Sun Boy's, we could have had an entirely different Legion! wink


Holy Cats of Egypt!
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives #2
Eryk Davis Ester #769637 04/29/13 10:12 PM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 24,141
Not much between despair and ecstacy
Offline
Not much between despair and ecstacy
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 24,141
Edmond Hamilton was certainly a much stronger writer than Jerry Siegel, at least as far as Legion stories are concerned. Hamilton's extensive career writing prose science fiction serves him well here, whereas Siegel's career pretty much began and ended with comics, IIRC.

"The Legion of Substitute Heroes" is built around a standard plot and shows how effective such a plot can be. We immediately like the protagonist (Polar Boy) and have an emotional attachment to him when he doesn't get what he wants (Legion membership). We root for him as he struggles to overcome obstacles (the Subs' declining morale and the Legion solving problems without their help), and we rejoice as he leads the Subs to victory at last! To top it all off, PB and the other Subs embody the finest quality of a Silver Age hero: they do not seek glory for themselves but rest content in knowing they made a difference.

The story is not perfect, of course. Others have pointed out the lapses in logic and the lazy depiction of Subs wearing their costumes before they got their powers. (It's either laziness or Mort or John felt readers were too stupid to recognize the heroes without their costumes.) For me, the biggest flaw is the tried-and-true method of having characters explain what the art is already depicting. On Page 10, Night has to tell us that her power returned when the sun set and that she's knocked the creature unconscious. I suppose the setting sun in two previous panels could be interpreted as a sunrise, and that a blow to the head could have killed or barely fazed the creature. Still, wouldn't it have been nice if Hamilton had trusted the artist to convey what needed to be conveyed? Or to express anything that needed to be expressed in a caption, which is not really "part" of the story?

And how many times does Stone Boy have to remind us how useless his power is? Dag, you weren't rejected by the Legion because of your power. They just didn't want a whiner on the team.

But a lot is accomplished here. It's hard to believe the story is only 14 pages long.



Check out my new Power Club website!

The Semi-Great Gildersleeve - writing, super-heroes, and this 'n' that
Page 1 of 14 1 2 3 13 14

Link Copied to Clipboard
ShoutChat
Forum Statistics
Forums14
Topics21,019
Posts1,044,957
Legionnaires1,729
Most Online53,886
Jan 7th, 2024
Newest Legionnaires
Mimi, max kord, Duke, CBSutherland2000, Arumidden
1,729 Registered Legionnaires
Today's Birthdays
There are no members with birthdays on this day.
Random Holo-Vids
Who's Who in the LMBP
Posts: 1,759
Joined: October 2003
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5