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Kill This Thread LIII - There's a Joker in Here!
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Re: Justice League
Tamper Lad #997059 01/15/21 05:58 PM
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"Wha's a Justick's Liege?"


Still "Fickles" to my friends.
Re: Justice League
Tamper Lad #997088 01/16/21 10:49 PM
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Snapper and Wimpy go out for hamburgers!

Re: Justice League
Tamper Lad #997106 01/17/21 07:23 AM
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While Wonder Woman has a nice long talk with Olive Oyl about equality and empowerment!

Re: Justice League
Tamper Lad #1026375 06/04/23 02:52 PM
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Obsidian Age

Following a mention of this story on the Kill the Thread, Thread, I gave this another read.

As with previous readings, it’s one story that you’re left wanting to have seen more of.

There’s an epic scope to it. One that’s removed from comics’ usual going up against a single cosmic bad guy, often in or from space. The setting merges ancient Atlantis into cultures of the time.

The antagonists here, are precursors to the League, and they also see themselves as heroes. They are every bit as motivated as our League in stopping a disaster to their age.

The antagonists turn out to have an antagonist of their own. But one who had also been made an outcast and is as committed, in her own way, as Aquaman, in saving her civilisation. She also sees herself as royalty, and the origins of some of the Atlantean curses are given.

While it gets a little fragmented towards the end, there are some very nice narrative arcs where prophecies are played out, and early actions have ramifications across millennia.

There are parallels between a couple of the old league and the current one. We get a glimpse into some elseworld versions, with some interesting questions raised. The plot also provides answers to why none of these characters ever made an impact in the ancient world.

There’s a nice reveal that the narrative of the Atlantean Chronicles turns out to be unreliable, written as it was by the winners of the times. That reveal twists the plot.

In addition to the time travelling aspects of the plot, we also get a new Justice League. Morrison’s run had made this a big deal again. Just who would Batman select, if the League went missing? One nice touch was that he used Mister Terrific's T-Spheres to contact the replacements.

Some picks show the writer knowing their JLA history. Some were less expected, particularly one just created.

One theme is just how brutal this league from a bygone age is. But I think that lets the current league off the hook a little, as they represent a publisher keen not to offend, rahther than some of the not so great things the societies that they come from do.

There are some sticking points. Ollie is a pathetic caricature. You’d have thought, of the replacement JLA, that, as a former mayor, Gren Arrow should have been the spokesperson. Instead, he hits on every female character he can, or sits back and gripes. It was embarrassing first time round. He offers little else to proceedings.

While the plot is darker, which is fine, there’s also more of an adult tone to proceedings. Ollie hitting on everyone in sight wasn’t a great look. Two characters comparing penis sizes of their colleagues might concern some parents, seeing their kids reading it. Ollie blatantly objectifying colleagues, while the creative team shows exactly what he’s objectifying isn’t great either.

But there’s some less overt stuff here too. In the space of a few issues we’d have Manitou’s partner offering herself to her new team, and Wonder Woman called a whore by Kanjar Ro. It was also Batman’s turn to be the prospective partner of Wonder Woman in this run, which reduces DC’s most successful heroine to an object to be passed around the others (we’d had Superman and Aquaman). I’ve always objected to characters using a colleague as a punching bag. Even though it’s supposed to be comic relief as Plastic Man is the victim of it, it’s never sat well.

Faith is a Mary Sue, right off the bat. So good at everything she does. And everything she does is everything the plot requires. And everyone loves her, because that turns out to also be one of her powers. Kelly does reveal things about her at a decent pace. But they are less reveals than further reminders of how awesome she is supposed to be. “Gosh Nightwing. Batman may never have confided with you over decades. But when he and I worked missions together (because that's what I do. I work missions with Batman), we had down time (and perhaps more), and here’s some of the things he told me, about you.” Yawn.

So there are missteps here. And they seemed like that when I first read this, never mind now. An undercurrent that I’d have hoped an editor would have removed from this run of the book.

But it does remain a very good plot, with time travel and magic twists and turns along the way. It was also prefigured by dreams Kyle was having. His experiences provided an additional sense of dread to the plot.

Well worth the reread, and overall the plot is a highpoint of the series. I'd still have liked to ahve seen more from that ancient league, and there are certainly plently of jumping off points for all sorts of plots.


"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
Re: Justice League
Tamper Lad #1026376 06/04/23 03:04 PM
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Excellent review, Thoth. We are pretty much of like minds on all the points you made.

The Obsidian Age trades have some interesting bonus material I'll share here soon.

I will reiterate my opinion already shared in Spaceopoly that Pre-Crisis Ollie at least had the courage of his convictions, while Post-Crisis Ollie was more often than not a completely unappealing hedonist.


Still "Fickles" to my friends.
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