But I reiterate: it is no longer a time of hope and peace. Shooter in one sentence, retroactively instituted a two decade's long war. This is no small thing and it amazes me that fandom has stuck with this perception of the ADV era as a time of political hunky-doriness. Now I'm not complaining because this turn adds a lot of realistic color to the setting and is an approach that not even Star Trek ventured.
Many new and interesting characters every issue. I also like his Morrison before Morrison work with higher-dimensional travel. How to depict that had to be a bit of a conversation. I have to say that I like that they kept it simple and comprehensible.
I might have to re-read "Universo Project" after I read #360, so I can compare/contrast the two. I only remember the broad strokes of Levitz's 4-parter, so I can't make a reasonable comparison between the two at this point. In fact, I'd encourage anyone interested in comparing the two stories to go ahead and read/re-read both and report back on this thread. Cobie, I'd encourage you to do same as well, just so you can make a totally fair comparison (assuming you haven't re-read the Levitz story within, say, the last year). Fickles, will you?
I'm gonna do it! Any other takers?
I'm currently re-reading "The Universo Project" from the Baxter series/Vol. 3 because of the comparisons to the "Outlawed Legionnaires" story. I'll report on that tomorrow or the next day. Then, I'll catch up on 361-362! I recommend to anyone else who hasn't re-read "Universo Project" recently to do so!
I just read through this thread, and I'm envious that I no longer have the time to read the issues and write reviews.
From what I remember, 359-360 were indeed a powerful story, very different from what we had come to expect. Here the Legionnaires had to struggle, and they might lose. The optimistic future no longer seems so optimistic when your own parents turn against you.
Shooter, at 15, tapped into the youthful fears in a big way!
I've always had mixed feelings about 361. I love the political undertones, which were quite serious for comics of the time. But the whole idea of the Unkillables being the descendents of famous murderers strikes me as wonky. It assumes too many things about genetics, for example (e.g., the murderers must have had bad genes, which they passed on to their descendents, who, miraculously, look just like them! See also Mxyzptlk and Luthor.)
On the other hand, Shooter was tapping once again into ideas he and his audience would have studied in school. It's always nice when comics reinforce subjects learned elsewhere--it adds a sort of credibility to "boring" school lessons. And it's great that Shooter could bridge the gap between the real world and comic book fantasy, something his predecessors rarely attempted.
I just read through this thread, and I'm envious that I no longer have the time to read the issues and write reviews.
I've always had mixed feelings about 361. I love the political undertones, which were quite serious for comics of the time. But the whole idea of the Unkillables being the descendents of famous murderers strikes me as wonky. It assumes too many things about genetics, for example (e.g., the murderers must have had bad genes, which they passed on to their descendents, who, miraculously, look just like them! See also Mxyzptlk and Luthor.)
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See also Eltro Gand. I, too, have not had time to reread the stories but being the Legion geek that I am, have most of them committed to memory anyway and have been posting based on my recollections. The head unkillable chose descendants of famous assassins based on their looks, then hypnotized them with some machine to turn them into killers. The "Dominators" described them as innocent victims. Why the renegade Dominator needed his assassins to look like their infamous ancestors, especially given that they all wore masks, is a mystery to me. This story was never one of my favorites, partially because I've never been a big Jim Mooney fan. Also, the whole story seemed like a pretext to toss in a history lesson about famous killers and to once again mix up the Legionnaires' powers for no particular purpose.
A Look Back: The Universo Project (LSH Baxter #32-35)
I'll start out by freely admitting I'm biased in favor of the Baxter Legion, particuarly the majority of the stories contained in issues #14-45, most of which were drawn by Greg LaRocque, who is my favorite Legion artist.
The Universo Project is arguably the high point of the Paul Levitz/Greg LaRocque era. As much as it owes to the Jim Shooter/Curt Swan "Outlawed Legionnaires" 2-parter -- which it freely acknowleges in a bit of dialogue -- this story up the stakes considerably (this time most of the Legionnaires are enslaved), and uses the luxuries of extra space (4 issues at 27 pages per issue) and more sophisticated artwork and coloring to their fullest potential. I have seen the pace criticized as slow, but I don't see it that way at all. I see Levitz deliberately building up smoothly to a spectacular and very satisfying climax. This kind of pacing was not possible in the Silver Age, with the need to cram everything into as little space as possible. There's also the characterization that the extra space allows. We get to know the four Legionnnaire outlaws (Saturn Girl, Chameleon Boy, Brianiac 5, and Dream Girl) very well, and to understand how Universo knew that they were not to be underestimated...even though he ended up underestimating them anyway. Of course, Saturn Girl shines brightest, because it's she who ultimately saves the day with her super-telepathy. That's what makes it all the sadder that Levitz made sexist comments about women and comics not long ago; it makes one wonder just how much credit should go to Karen Berger and Jenette Kahn for female-friendly superhero books like the LSH of this era.
And, of course, there's also Greg LaRocque's artwork and Carl Gafford's coloring. The coloring on the Baxter format books generally gets criticized for being too garish, but I think it fit the Legion perfectly, and nowhere more so than on the issues drawn by LaRocque. His fluid, sensous imagery and his amazing command of composition, perspective, and spatial relations combine to make him one seriously underrated artist.
I'll grant that the Baxter Era was not as groundbreaking as the Silver Age. But it was, for a considerable stretch, a triumph of sheer impeccable craftsmanship, and The Universo Project is one of its highest points.
I'd say, having just read both, that comparing the "Outlawed Legionnaires" 2-parter to "The Universo Project" is like comparing apples to oranges. Yes, the latter story was clearly inspired by the former, but Levitz's story is no simple re-hash.
Shooter's story involved the whole Legion trying to figure out why Earth had turned against them. Many Legionnaires had moments to shine, and all were a part of the action. The story had many great scenes ad was so effective at spotlighting the entire Legion's ingenuity and determination, probably the best Legion story to do so since the great tale I call "Kitchen Sink" (Bridwell's epic Sir Prize/Miss Terious 2-parter which opened the previous Archive).
Levitz's story had a tighter focus on these four Legionnaires (with a couple of linked side-plots involving two other groups). I think his idea for this story probably started more from a desire to find some way to spotlight these four Legionnaires together more than it did to simply be a sequel to Shooter's story. I think as Levitz explored options for how to do something with them that the idea to involve Universo probably came secondary. How do you spotlight four characters that no one would list among the top-tier Legionnaires power-wise and show what was special about them? I think the rest fell into place in an attempt to answer that question.
So within similar trappings, you have two great stories that tell you different things about Legionnaires. Shooter's shows you how resilient the team is faced with a situation different from anything they've ever faced before. Levitz's shows you how four of the 'weak' Legionnaires are, in their own way, just as or more formidable than any in their large group that happens to count several Kryptonian-level powerhouses among them.
Both stories are remarkable in their own way. Levitz's is more cerebral and slightly decompressed. Shooter's is filled with action and intrigue. But I find it difficult to put one above the other, certainly not based on which one came first. they're apples and oranges--and two of the Legion's better stories, I'd say!
All good points, Lardy. I find your use of the term "decompressed" especially interesting, as I believe that one of Levitz's innovations as a writer was the very "decompressed" style that would come to dominate comics in the 21st Century. After all, what became The Universo Project started out as a subplot which Levitz had introduced almost two years earlier. The difference being that Levitz's better stories (such as the one we're discussing) actually went somewhere, and built to satisfying crescendos and resolutions. I personally prefer this style of pacing to the sometimes frantic, sometimes choppy pacing of the Silver Age. I'm not saying it's better, it's just a matter of personal taste.
Is this the last Re-Reading the Legion: Archives thread? I could've swore their was an Archives #8 thread but I can't find it. In any event I might as well bump this one to find out if posters have the time to continue this series of of threads.
Thanks Fanfie! So Adv 362 would be the next story to reread. I'm wondering if as a test run we do just this one in the first week? Or if it's a 2-parter than the two issues?
And should that week be this one or next? I'd be ok for this week but don't know if anyone needs prep time.
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