Legion World Forums LEGION COMPANION Spaceopoly Bat-Villain Idol

As I said in the 2015 Tournament threads, I am going to start an Idol this month. I will most likely adopt the rules Invisible Brainiac used in previous games (and I will post them when I find the most recent Idol thread). This game will be a little different than previous ones because:

1) There are a lot of Bat-Villains.
2) There are two or three versions of the most popular Bat-Villain.
3) We need to decide whether or not to include versions in other media ( primarily movies, TV, video games).

My Definitions of Comic Book Ages
The Batman titles are largely untouched by changes in comic book ages. There are subtle changes evident in art styles (such as Sprang for the Silver Age and Neal Adams for the Bronze Age), but unlike Superman there is no definite issue that signifies the end of an era. I will use Batman: The Ultimate Guide to the Dark Knight's definition of the Silver Age starting with Showcase #4, the introduction of Barry Allen.

Golden Age: 1939-1956
Silver Age: 1956- 1970
Bronze Age: 1970- 1996
Pre-New 52: 1996-2010 (?)
Modern: The current version of the character

I'm only using Ages to annotate if there are more than one well-known difference.

Name Version
The Monk
Killer Croc Modern
Killer Croc Bronze
The Joker Modern
The Joker Silver Age
Firefly
Bane Modern
Calendar Man Silver Age
Calendar Man Modern
Catman Silver Age
Catman Pre-New 52
Bane Bronze Age
Catwoman Silver Age
Catwoman Golden Age
Catwoman Modern
Condiment King
Deadshot Bronze Age
Harley Quinn Pre-New 52
Killer Moth
Mad-Hatter Modern
Mad-Hatter(Imposter)
Man-Bat
Maxie Zeus
Mister Freeze Modern
Mister Freeze Bronze Age
Mister Freeze Silver Age
Music Meister
The Penguin Modern
The Penguin Silver Age
Poison Ivy Modern
Poison Ivy Silver Age
Polka-Dot Man
Red Hood Silver Age
Red Hood Modern
The Riddler Modern
The Riddler Silver Age
Ra's Al-Ghul
Talia Al Ghul
The Scarecrow
Black Mask
Clayface I (Karlo) Golden Age
Clayface (Karlo) Modern
Clayface II (Hagen) Silver Age
Clayface III (Payne) Bronze Age
Clayface IV (Fuller) Modern
Hush
Mr.Zsasz
Two-Face Modern
Two-Face Golden Age
Kite-Man
The Eraser
Crazy Quilt
The Ventriloquist
Film Freak
Anarky
Ratcatcher
Tally Man I
Tally Man II
The Spook
The Cavalier
Captain Stingaree
Ventriloquist II (female)
Electrocutioner
Electrocutioner II
Electrocutioner III
Dr. Hurt
Prof. Pyg
David Cain
KGBeast
False Face
Hugo Strange
Rupert Thorne
Dr. Phosphorous
Holiday
Copperhead
Blockbuster
Blockbuster II
Queen of Hearts
Joe Chill
The Reaper
Carmine Falcone
Sal Maroni
Lew Moxon
Boss Zucco
Nightslayer
Nocturna
Abattoir
Tweedledee
Tweedledum (Dumfree)
Tweedledum II (Dumpson)
Crime Doctor
Doctor Double X
King Snake
The Outsider
Ubu
The Wrath
Black Spider
Black Spider II
The Outsider
Sterling Silversmith
Fox (Terrible Trio)
Shark (Terrible Trio)
Vulture (Terrible Trio)
Werewolf (Anthony Lupus)
Ten-Eyed Man
Spellbinder I
Spellbinder II
Signalman
Professor Milo
Orca
NKVDemon
Magpie
Firebug
Cornelius Stirk
Amygdala
Prometheus
Cluemaster
Charaxes
Lord Death Man

This list is not yet complete. Please feel free to make suggestions to add for the final list.

Hi Emily, I'm happy that you're running this. Promises to be a lot of fun.

Here's the link to the most recent Idol that I've run - JLIdol. Please feel free to ask me about the rules, rationale, etc. First 2 rounds are when the list massively shrinks because I usually impose a fairly high cut-off for making it to the next round.

Thanks again for doing this and I'm happy you're adapting my rules.

Hi Emily,

I notice you have Two Face Goden Age and Two Face Modern but no Two Face Bronze Age (for example). A few other characters such as Poison Ivy and Mr Freeze are also missing versions of their characters that were quite different to the ones listed.

As for missing villains; off the top of my head:

Film Freak
Anarky
Ratcatcher
Tally Man I
Tally Man II
The Spook
The Cavalier
Captain Stingaree

I could keep going but I just remembered that Wikipedia has a fairly extensive list of them:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Batman_Family_adversaries

Thanks, I will add them to the list. How many appearances did the Spook and Captain Stingaree have? I'm a little bit hesitant in including characters that have less than two appearances out of fear that this list could be in the thousands.

What is the difference between Bronze Age Two-Face and Modern Two-Face? (I'm being honest here as I'm only 24 years old.)

I think that the main difference with Bronze Age Two-Face is that he had a kid - Duela Dent. This has since been retconned out

The Spook had a few appearances before being dramatically beheaded by Damian Wayne (and I mean 3)

Captain Stingaree has appeared more - largely in the background of large super villain montages

What about people like Cluemaster (who is more famous by being the father of Spoiler)?

Some of the characters - like Dr. Moon and Clock King - were introduced in Batman but become larger elsewhere in the DCU ... I think that's an argument to keeping them off your list

By the way, this looks interesting. I can't wait to see the rules!

Did that fact make Two-Face's personality or powers significantly different than the previous and most recent versions?

I left Duela off the initial list because she seems to be more of a Teen Titans Villain. If anyone has any objections to that, please let me know.

Duela is totally a Titans villain so I support your judgment

The different eras didn't change Two-Face's powers, but I have to defer to others more expert in Bat stuff.

From me recollection, his personality in the Bronze Age was definitely a major player in terms of supervillainy - would not be out of place against the JLA (whereas I think only Joker could still do that of the majority of Bat Villains)

One thing I remember about Captain Stingaree is he was revealed to be gay and in a relationship with Cavalier. This was off-panel though but it kind of etablishes him as a presence.

There were two bronze age Mad Hatters, Tectch and the imposter. One looked like the Lewis Carol version, and one looked like the Golden age one.

Ventriloquist II (female)
Electrocutioner
Dr. Hurt
Prof. Pyg
David Cain
KGBeast
False Face
Hugo Strange
Rupert Thorne
Dr. Phosphorous
Holiday
Copperhead
Blockbuster
Blockbuster II
Queen of Hearts
Joe Chill
The Reaper
Carmine Falcone
Sal Maroni
Lew Moxon
Boss Zucco

In the Bronze Age, Two-Face was my favourite Bat-villain. In the pre-New 52 era, I found him just sort of ho-hum. But I can't think of what changed about him to make me think that way. His look and personality haven't really changed all that much. Maybe it was just me that changed?

Bronze Age Poison Ivy is totally different to pre-New 52 / Modern Age Poison Ivy though. Same with the Mr Freezes.

Nightslayer
Nocturna
Abattoir
Tweedledee
Tweedledum (Dumfree)
Tweedledum II (Dumpson)
Black Spider
Calculator
Composite Superman
Crime Doctor
Doctor Double X
King Snake
The Outsider
Ubu
The Wrath

It's because they keep writing the same Two-Face stories over and over again. I used to think he was great too, but there's not a lot new done with the character.

Black Spider- Isn't he more of a JSA/Seven Soldiers of Victory Enemy? I recall that he was created Post-Crisis to fill Green Arrow's spot and he betrayed the team. Please correct me if I am wrong or if there are multiple versions of this character?
Calculator- Both versions or just Pre-New 52?
Composite Superman- How many appearances did he have?
The Outsider- How many appearances did he have?

You're thinking of "I Spider", Black Spider was a lethal vigilante type from the 70s and 80s. He was reimagined as Suicide Squsd fodder in the new 52.

The Outsider appeared multiple times in the 60s, and then again years later in an issue of DC Comics Presents.

I updated the list with most of the suggestions above. However, I will need more details as to Bronze Age Poison Ivy and Mister Freeze before I will add them to the system. I hope to start the game by 10/26/2015.

I think you could make a case for Bronze Age & Pre-52 Killer Crocs being significantly different. One was a gangster with a skin condition, the other was much more animalistic and portrayed as a metahuman.

During the Super Powers era (Bronze Age), Freeze was upgraded with his power suit instead of the fish bowl helmet, that also gave him super strength. Later in the Pre-52 Era, his entire backstory and motivation changed to be more in line with the cartoon.

Sorry, not trying to spam. I still think you need the "imposter" Mad Hatter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mad_Hatter_%28comics%29

The difference between Ivy versions are that in earlier appearances she's just a crazed botanist, but eventually she actually gains metahuman powers to control plants. But it's hard to tell when that shift actually happens.

More villains (all of whom made multiple appearances as far as I know):

* Tony Zucco (or is this the same as Boss Zucco?)
* Sterling Silversmith
* Sal Maroni
* Electrocutioner II
* Electrocutioner III
* Black Spider II
* Henri Ducard
* Fox (Terrible Trio)
* Shark (Terrible Trio)
* Vulture (Terrible Trio)
* Werewolf (Anthony Lupus)
* Ten-Eyed Man
* Spellbinder I
* Spellbinder II
* Signalman
* Professor Milo
* Orca
* NKVDemon
* Magpie
* Firebug
* Egghead
* Dr Death
* Cornelius Stirk
* Amygdala
* Owlman
* Prometheus
* Cluemaster
* Charaxes

Original flavour Poison Ivy and post-90s Poison Ivy may as well be two different characters.

Original: http://www.comics.org/issue/20087/cover/4/

Post-90s: http://www.comics.org/issue/534894/cover/4/

Other than looking almost completely different, the modern one is much more highly sexualised, much more powerful, and is much more frequently portrayed as semi-heroic these days (despite the fact that she has killed hundreds of people).

I'm not sure about this, but isn't it the case that Bronze Age portrayals tended to have his split personality solely due to his disfigurement, while more modern portrayals tend to have it that he that he was always struggling with the second personality, but that the disfigurement sent him completely over the edge?

^ I think you're definitely right about that EDE. I don't think that tweak to his background would have affected my impression of Two-Face all that much, but it was a difference.

This is one of the earliest comics that explored Two-Face's new background by the way (and, as I recall, it was actually a really good story):

http://www.comics.org/issue/102160/cover/4/

I'll add Silver Age Poison Ivy to the list because she debutted in 1966 and I consider Silver Age for Batman to end at 1970, which is when Neal Adams started illustrating the title and grittier stories began.

In regards to Mister Freeze, was that portrayal during the Bronze Age only in the TV show or also in the comics?

Dr.Death- Did he appear in Grant Morrison's run?
Owlman- I assume Modern Age version? The Silver Age version was basically a JLA villain.