Legion World Forums LEGION COMPANION Dr. Gym'll's Cultural Rarities DC Comics Rebirth

I thought it was just me. I also dislike Barry - he was better as a dead inspiration than he was alive (IMO).

As for your other point, Sarky - the idea that Johns is using Doc Manhattan as a way of casting his own fault into a character is interesting. Then the meta question is not so much DCU vs. Moore/Lloyd Watchmen BUT DCFU realizing it's actually the Watchmen (as in anti-superhero comics) and needs to be salvaged/repaired.

Hmmm...

It's kind of retrograde to utilize Doc Manhattan in this way - it does demonstrate a startling lack of understanding of Watchmen.

Watchmen is recognizably a critique of superhero books, and a particular era of America (to be honest). Is there utility in mining this critique for the current state of the DCU? Maybe, but I don't have faith in their ability to do so effectively.

Of course, it could be a means of extending the publication of Watchmen TPB and thus keeping the ownership firmly in DC's hands. But that's just the cynic in me speaking.

Oh, it was cheap. Well, in that case... actually no. I'll still pass.



Yeah. Sarky's right in that it's that aspect that was copied by nearly everyone else afterwards. Although you could argue The Dark Knight/ Miracleman/ more mature Indy books had parts to play too.

It's a shame, because it's not as though any of the themes in any of those books are difficult or hidden to any great depth (which is a compliment to them). So, there are all sorts of ideas that comics could have taken and run with. But dark, ultra violence seemed to sell.

From what I saw of DC Events leading up to things like Infinite Crisis/ Countdown/52 ad nauseam, there's a heck of a lot more optimism in Watchmen than in the DCU.

I know this: when I finished Watchman the first time, at age 12 or 13, I felt nothing but joy and satisfaction. And I still feel that when I reread it, which has been probably over a dozen times.

When I read the last issue of John's run on GL, which was akin to a circle jerk (with the reader in the middle), the only thing I felt like was possibly quitting my lifelong comics hobby.

As overrated as I find Watchmen (in a nutshell, I think it's cold, clinical, style-over-substance, and the climax is a mess) I think it's still better than anything Johns has ever written (and I did enjoy GL Rebirth, GLC Recharge, and the Sinestro Corps War at the time -- emphasis on AT THE TIME.)

I'll say this. No matter how I feel about Johns, Action Comics #864 forever remains one of my favorite Lightning Lad stories. Garth's shift in personality is one that's easily explainable to me, and his dislike of cops in that issue is FRIGHTENINGLY understandable given the amount of police killings in the last few years.

But all the deaths he's responsible for, the racism with his handling of the new Judomaster, the fact that his deliberate tanking on the quality of Teen Titans effectively ruined the book for a decade, that he decided to call the so-called entity of love THE PREDATOR, Johns is still being hypocritical because he did all of that years before he wrote Flashpoint. I have no idea what happened to the man who wrote Stars and STRIPE, but it's clear that man is dead.

Prediction: In a few years, the villain behind the next DC event designed to create a new positive status quo for the company will be Jordan Elliot!

Oh Eryk, in a few years the villain behind the next DC event designed to create a new positive status quo for the company will be moi.

This confirms my longheld theory that Sarcasm Lad is, in reality, the pre-Crisis Superman!

EDE, LOL

I just wish they'd throw continuity out the window and simply tell good stories without gore and/or creepiness.

I'm trying to be optimistic, and compare this to the idiocy of Superboy-Prime punching reality.

Ah, that felt a bit better.

The Predator was a pre-existing Green Lantern villain who was connected to Star Sapphire and Carol Ferris. Johns just sort of added the "Star Sapphires = Love Corps" aspect to the equation.

Oh I know all about that, but still, the Predator?

Not to mention he makes the love entity masculine in a supposedly all-female corps, after mentioning most men aren't capable of using a violet ring.

The ending of Watchmen made you joyful? Someone must have taken the last pages out of my copy.

I enjoyed it but can see the "style over substance" POV too. I've read it several times and still haven't finished that pirate story. Feels as if there were a million different ways to tell that part of the story, comes across to me as "tries to hard."

Ahhh more Rebirth today

I enjoyed the Detective Comics launch. Interesting cast. The art is effective IMO. Batwoman looks fantastic in costume and out. The tension between Batwoman and Batman is just starting - and it's a nice spark. There was a touching scene with a villain. Good set up of a big baddie. Well worth the $2.99 admission.

Aquaman was ... ok. I wanted more of the supporting cast, but I guess that's always my problem with Aquaman - I'm more interested in Garth and Mera and now Jackson (and whichever Aquagirls are around).

Can't bring myself to pick up Flash or Action.

Wonder Woman looks promising, and Action Comics looks like it's offering a lot more than the solicits had us believe.

I'm pretty sure that first WW issue is the equivalent of Greg Rucka going up to Brian Azzarello and Meredith Finch and swatting them with a rolled up newspaper going "No! NO! That is a BAD Wonder Woman characterization. Bad!"

Proof that the DC 'Rebirth' will continue to be no better than the 'New 52':



...aaand the dumbness continues.

So... the new Detective Comics came out ... and I still really like it
The art is fantastic and the tension between Batman/Batwoman and Batman/Tim Drake is great
Also, the writer nailed the Stephanie/Cassie/Tim dynamics

As for Clayface... this is such a throwback to the Gotham Adventures cartoon - just in terms of spirit and style .. nice to see

I read the latest Action Comics and it's actually not horrible. There's obviously a mystery as to why Doomsday and "New" Clark are there and where they came from. Proof will be in the pudding as to the resolution. It was kind of funny to see Lex frustrated that after Superman is finally killed, there's suddenly both a Superman and Clark Kent running around ruining what would have been his triumphant rise as a "hero".

So, thus far, I have to say I'm really enjoying Batman, Detective Comics and the Flash. I'm delighted (and surprised) to have enjoyed them all as much as I have.

I hope to try out the others soon too.

Could this perhaps finally break this "comic book reading depression" I've been in? I hope so.

Adding a few more thoughts: I really enjoyed Green Arrow and Aquaman too (well, for Aquaman, the #1 more than the Rebirth special).

It appears DC is seriously working hard to try and tell good, solid stories again. They're taking their time, introducing characters, combining action and characterization well, having each issue work on its own. So I guess the best thing thus far is a shift in storytelling techniques--back to a better style reminiscent of an earlier era.

I also liked Superman and Action Comics but am still trying to figure out how I feel about the whole complicated status quo.

For about 12 or so weeks I've had trouble finding the enthusiasm to even open a comic up, something that's never happened to me before. These issues thus far have felt good to read. I'm not asking for another V for Vendetta, just something to entertain me and give me some joy. So far, it's working.

Cobie, is there any gore and/or sensationalism in any of the DCR books you've read so far?

I'm feeling the same as Cobie - Titans, Aquaman, Wonder Woman and Detective have all been enjoyable (and fairly gore-less - even celebratory in some ways)

(Also, I pretty much stopped reading anything but Midnighter, Astro City and Grayson)

The Green Lanterns book is hard for me to get a handle on because I don't know these characters at all. And the creative team is assuming the reader knows them.

I haven't tried GA or Flash - the DCFU really soured me on those characters.
Batman I am tempted to pick up just for Duke.

Thanks, Andy.

I'm giving Titans, Aquaman, and Wonder Woman a hard pass because they're all written by writers I don't like.

Is anyone other that me planning to try Phil Jimenez & Emanuela Lupacchino's Superwoman next month?

So far I can't bring myself to pick up any Rebirth books despite all of the positive buzz. In fact, I'm pretty sure I will not, but I'm very open to getting some of the eventual trades.

I've particularly been keeping my eye on the Green Arrow reviews. When done right, I have a hard time turning down either Hawkeye or Green Arrow books. Both characters have a certain rogue underdog appeal that's hard for me to resist.

Cobie, and anyone else, I'd appreciate more detailed thoughts about all the books you are enjoying when you have time, so I can eventually make a well-informed decision on the trades.