Legion World Forums LEGION COMPANION Dr. Gym'll's Cultural Rarities DC Comics Rebirth

I'm glad I'm not the only one that finds Justice League BAD ... I just stopped this month with it.

I suspect Dave is right, in that reading Action on a bi-monthly basis probably reads better with Superman every other week. I think Action in general picks up really nicely after the first arc with more focus on Lex, the Planet and especially Lois. I think you'll enjoy subsequent arcs and would recommend you continue.

BFOB, I agree with Lardy--start with Rebirth for Flash. Starting any earlier might have an adverse effect. I hated Barry's return too, but this fresh start helped me embrace this series.

I also struggled on Hal & GLC. And while the series had clearly improved, its still on the weaker end of the Rebirth spectrum even now. It's an odd combo of too many characters yet it still feels like a struggle for anything to happen. Soranik is done well, as are some other alien GLs (Kilowog, etc) but the big 4 verge on being cliche versions of themselves.

Love that you're loving Tec. I loved it from the start and it's stayed great. Batman and Batwoman play great roles and of course it's the others who make this series work so well.

Lastly, I can easily see how WW doesn't read as well when it's split up into the separate arcs. I had wondered myself if that will be the case. The art is truly incredible--seminal stuff from Scott and Sharp--but there's definitely a slow Rucka pace. Things do pick up in later arcs, but again, I'm curious if not reading the arcs on a rotating issue basis miscolored my perceptions. I would recommend you stick with WW a bit longer and see.

I have to say that I loved the holographic cover to last month's Flash

^ yeah, same here. Whoever thought to make it a nod to the Golden Age Flash Comics had a moment of brilliance.

I picked up the first two Flash Rebirth trades based on the convo here

The first one was surprisingly good. I'm not a big Barry fan but I found this portrayal pretty compelling. The counterbalance of Godspeed was well played, as were the Wallys. The art moved well. In a book about speedsters, that's a great thing

On to trade 2!

I'm lucky enough that my pre-order partner collects Aquaman, Flash, and the GL books, so I've had a first-crack free ride on their Rebirth runs. Aquaman's been great since Johns' New 52 run, and Flash Rebirth has been a lot of fun as well. I'm liking GL(s)' focus on the newer faces, and can relate to Jessica's anxiety problems. She and Baz compliment each other, shoring up each other's shortcomings and bolstering their strengths. HGLC has all our familiar GL faces... Sucks that , but hopefully there's an endgame with that, Hal's embodiment of Willpower, and St. Walker's mission to rebuild the Blue Corps. My least favorite of the Rebirth titles I'm reading (I get 'Tec, Batwoman, Batgirl, BBOP, Nightwing, Super Sons, and Wonder Woman myself), but by no means is it BAD. Really enjoying REBIRTH as a whole.

Andy, I'm pleased that the recommendations from me and others worked out well for you regarding Flash! I hope to get that second trade before long, as well.

While I'm in this thread, I'm curious to see if anyone has anything to say about the initial Cyborg, Supergirl and Blue Beetle storylines for Rebirth. I seem to recall Cobie having positive things to say about one or more of these initially, but I don't know what he or anyone else thought after the first 6 or 7 issues. I've been "wait and see" about these for a variety of reasons, including none of these three being characters that I would have automatically followed in the past. Cyborg, of course, has only headlined series in the last couple of years. Supergirl, I only loved during the Gates/Igle run in the modern age (plus PAD's run, but that's a different character). Blue Beetle, I've never bought any ongoing of Ted's or Jaime's. So you can see the dilemma, I think.

Disappointed to read that Greg Rucka is leaving Wonder Woman again just as I feel I can start to see the potential in this take. Ah well, we'll see who follows. Hopefully with the movie launching, it will be a thoughtful choice.

I also really enjoyed Flash, although I haven't finished the first trade yet. I'm seeing a lot of backstory added that reminds me of the show. Did the comics swipe from the show, or was this added when Barry returned, and the show swipe from the comics?

ETA: I have already had Godspeed's identity spoiled, so no fears on that front.

I just read about the events of Superman Reborn. It feels like a switch that should have been made right off the bat in Rebirth, instead months of confusing continuity snarls, and a major shift in the middle of a run that will make it forever an awkward read. Still, now that it's in the past, I'm thinking of giving them another shot. I'm still too mad about the bait-and-switch to look at Superwoman again.

I've only read the Legion specific (Emerald Empress/New Fatal Five) Supergirl. It's.... OK. Seems like it's trying to blend a bunch of different sources (the show, earlier incarnations, dealign with the Superman REborn aftermath), that it doesn't have much in terms of firm footing. The "World's Finest" stuff with Batgirl seems forced, but I did like her interactions with Jon.

I’m also thrilled about the positive reception to the Flash Rebirth series! I’ve been a proponent of it from the start and it was one of the initial series that started building my rebirth enthusiasm early on.



Thoughts on Cyborg, Supergirl and Blue Beetle:

Cyborg has been nothing short of excellent, and I highly recommend it. Even though he didn’t have prior solo series, and the “return to basics” concept isn’t totally applicable, there is that sense within the series that they are presenting a really fantastic science-fiction oriented superhero using a lot of the great story-telling techniques of the days of yore. What I mean is, this series reminds me of 80’s Firestorm, or 90’s Ray, or Blue Devil, or a whole host of series that were very unique yet all also told a strong superhero story on a regular basis. It has great characterization, an overarching conflict between father & son, romance, and great new supporting characters being introduced. I’ve liked Vic for years but from the Wolfman / Perez days forward, he was never a hero I was clamoring for; when he was introduced as a JLA original, I scoffed. Yet this series has been really great and made him a character I feel DC *MUST* keep going as a solo star.

For some reason, I’ve just been unable to really connect with Supergirl the series. I like Supergirl the character, and I like what they’re trying to do, but it always ends up at the bottom of the pile for me, and I often find myself skimming through it. The artwork is nice, though sometimes a little too anime for my tastes, though the colors always pop nicely. I’m not sure. Not a bad series, and better than say, JLA or either Titans book, but it’s still missing something. I have to wonder if I’m just not the target audience, and if that is the case, then I’m okay with it.

Lastly, Blue Beetle is a series I had high hopes for, because the Ted Kord Blue Beetle is my father’s favorite character after Spider-Man, and has been since the Ditko Blue Beetle series in the late Silver Age. So despite his involvement and an open mind about Jamie…I’ve been relatively disappointed by the series in general. What it comes down to is this: crappy costume aside and despite whoever is being used as the Beetle or his mentor, the story-telling by Giffen and Scott Kollins has been sub-par. There is far too much talking heads, far too much “teenagers being snarky because hey, that’s the hip thing to do” and far too much mystical nonsense / shenanigans. It all kind of runs together and becomes pretty uninteresting. That all being said…it is getting a little better. And I think the reason its getting better is because DC wants this series to succeed and they are recognizing the flaws and trying to fix them. Giffen has always needed a co-writer to produce high quality stuff, and they’re bringing in the incredible J.M. Dematteis to do that. Since Dematteis is one of the best Spider-Man scribes of all time, I’m hoping he has an immediate effect, and starts giving us so more fluid pacing, some better superhero action and much better, more realistic dialogue that sounds like actual people and not old men trying to be teenagers. I also can’t tell if the long-term goal is for a new costume for Jamie that is more in line with Ted’s classic, but if that is true, that will help. All in all, I’m sure this doesn’t read like a huge endorsement to try it out if you’re on the fence—but for me personally, I’m hoping things do improve. If they do, I may end up recommending skipping the first arc and coming in with Dematteis.

So: Cyborg is a Big YES, while it’s hard to recommend either Superigrl or Blue Beetle though neither is all that bad and your mileage may vary.

Also, I noted the comment about Superwoman above too--I just have to add, that IMO, Superwoman is probably the Rebirth series I've enjoyed the least. I'll add that Harley Quinn takes that title, but its very clear that Harley Quinn is not for me, and is the modern version of DC's Lobo series of the 90's, so it almost doesn't count. But overall Superwoman has been terrible. I don't mind that they're rebooting the whole thing in the wake of Reborn because it didn't really add much for me. I expected much better from Phil.

Making Lois or Lana Superwoman on an ongoing basis seems to do either character a disservice and undermines them in the long run. This is, of course, because it will always inevitably come to a crashing halt. Perhaps the better play would have been to use Natasha Irons, who is heading in that direction anyway, and could add some welcome diversity to the Super-family. Plus there is a built-in tension with her father, who was one of the best new characters of the 90's.

Speaking of Steel, I have to add that I find it a really annoying trend that any female superhero has to have a superhero boyfriend as they did with Lana and Steel. They did it with Captain Marvel (Carol over at Marvel) as well a few years ago. In my mind it becomes a bit of a security blanket--as if to say "a male superhero can have any kind of girlfriend, but a female superhero with a non-powered boyfriend is just too boring". And as evidenced by Steel's role in this series so far, it certainly hasn't done him any favors. The lone exception lately has been Steve Trevor, who is being written very well over in Wonder Woman.

Appreciate the detailed feedback, Cobie! I think with your (and Dave's) feedback, Supergirl is a soft pass. Blue Beetle sounds like a hard pass, at least thru Vol. 1.

Superwoman sounds like a dumpster fire! Even if it wasn't, it sure sounds like the Superman revision would have torpedoed it!

And Cyborg sounds like a can't miss! I'll have to move that one to the top of my acquisition priorities. I'm excited for it, now!!!

Yeah, I think you'll really enjoy Cyborg! Glad to hear it's moving up priority wise!

I finally read Batman rebirth. That was… Terrible. Apparently Batman has a new protégé or something. No sign of Robin or explanation for why Batman needs a new protégé. No explanation of who this guy is. Apparently something is wrong with his parents. He referred to himself as Duke, but I don't even know if that was the first or last name. No explanation of his backstory or his relationship to Batman. No indication of what is supposed to set him apart from the many many bat people already floating around. Considering that his introduction is the heart of the story, it left me so confused that I am not even in a position to judge the quality of the work itself. This might be a good read for people who already knew what was going on with the Batman books at this point, but as an attempt to draw in new readers, i'd rated the worst rebirth comic I've read yet. I read a bunch of books that were bad, but none that actively alienated a new reader to this degree.

Duke Thomas was one of the leaders of the "We are Robin..." movement (from the series of the same name), which was a vigilante team, burgeoning political movement, or glorified street gang, depending on the point of view. When they disbanded Batman took Duke on as part of a new accelerated "Partner Training Program" as opposed to him being a sidekick or protégé.

I just read the first rebirth issue of detective and really liked it. But the information you just gave me made his absence from that very strange

On a different note, is it just me or has DC's Rebirth era been remarkably... stable? Lots of books still done by the creative teams that launched them a year ago. None of the dropped plots because they change direction every two weeks. No reports of terrible behind the scenes drama (well, let's say it's reduced to the amount of behind the scenes drama we normally expect to be reported in comics).

It's eerie. I feel like the parent of a toddler who just realized with a worried start that the house has been unnaturally quiet the previous few minutes.

Anyone getting Trinity? I'm sure a plus is that the art is by our pal Francis Manapul. It's also written by him, which might be problematic.

I got the first issue. It was deeply embedded in the current storylines in the various characters' books. If it became less a book for exploring the ramifications of other books' plot developments, I'd be willing to give it another shot. I suspect it's another run made awkward by a mid-run course correction after Superman Reborn.

There's a natural story break when "Reborn" happens, so Trinity is able to pivot pretty seamlessly. It's actually a good scene where Clark describes that he knows things have changed, but not what, and they are all put on alert for reality changes (Diana, due to her recent experiences, is sympathetic). Overall, the book is gorgeous, but it's slow moving and ultimately doesn't feel necessary, but man is it nice to look at.

See my comments earlier in the thread--I understood BotB's concerns but ultimately by the second issue, prior continuity wasn't a huge concern.

The series is really beautiful and that alone makes it worth it IMO. The plot is slow, but it's still pretty good. It's definitely Manupal's best writing to date, and I bet it reads even better as a trade.

It's also probably the best written the Trinity has been with each other in an age, not to mention Lois having a great role too.

This week I'll start reading my next wave of four Rebirth TPBs: Titans, Suicide Squad, Deathstroke & Batgirl.

I have fairly low expectations for Titans and Suicide Squad. I decided to get Titans because that was where we follow Wally after the big Rebirth special that started the current initiative and, of course, memorably brought Wally back. The Squad I got in kind of a package deal on eBay. Otherwise, I might have skipped it, though there is always the vague, possibly fruitless hope that someone may yet recapture the what only John Ostrander has been able to do with the concept.

Batgirl and especially Deathstroke have been eagerly awaited by me for some time based on the good to great word of mouth they've gotten here and elsewhere. Can't wait to read, review and update my Rebirth rankings!

Eagerly await your thoughts on all!