posted
Before I get into the topic; Is the New Legion Comic still sceduled to come out in the middle of this month? Also, Adventure Comics started up another Legion story again right? I haven't been to the Comic store for a few months, I'm overdue!
Right now I'm looking at Duplicate Boy, not literally, just raising some questions on his power.
Now my understanding is that he can take any super power of any one opponent and use it for himself; with the icing on the cake being that he is becomes more powerful than the person opposing him and that he actually heightens the ability the longer the fight goes on. Am I correct?
Has he ever been seen using his power in a non-vioent manner, such as being "Near" Shrinking Violet for example and duplicating her power? Does he always have to be an advisary to gain someone's power?
If Duplicate Boy and Superboy were hanging out, could he gain the power of flight and then fly across Metropolis for example?
Can he only duplicate one power or all of the powers of an individual? Superboy's got more than one, would Duplicate Boy reeive all of them at once? If he didn't he would be much weaker as Superboy could use his Strength and Invulnerabilty at the same time.
I have a Legionnaire that was rolled up which has essentially the same power as Duplicate Boy. It doesn't have built in limitations that Duplicate Boy seems to suffer but the mechanics of the power limit it quite a bit for game balance.
When I create Duplicate Boy I want to use the same power but create personal adaptations for Duplicate Boy to match the comics.
Here's the power as I just finished writing it. I'm hoping the Legion community can use it to help define Duplicate Boy correctly as well as coming up with the necessary modificatiosn to serve him well.
Individual power modifications are being called Power Surges and Power Limitations. I'd like to pan Duplicate Boy out since I'm kinda already working on it through this character for one of my players.
POWER DUPLICATION Characters exposed to a super power resulting from another being are able to duplicate it for short periods of time with this ability. Duplicating the powers of another being or object is very taxing on the individual.
The power effects tied to Power Duplication enable the character to detect what super powers others may have, the power effects they are capable of as well as various forms of manipulating an individual’s power.
Duplicate Boy has this power, though his is modified by power surges and limitations.
SSM: Category × 75 Trait: Psyche Prerequisite: None Source: External Power Source Emanation Point: See duplicated power Appearance: See duplicated power Activation Time: At-Will; See duplicated power +3 actions Target: Self Range: See duplicated power Duration: Measured in actions; See duplicated power Deactivation Time: See duplicated power +2 actions Power Unfamiliarity: No Training Challenge Score: 18 Zeniths Required: 13
In order to duplicate a superpower of another, the character must have either acquired knowledge of the power through the use of the Detect Power effect (see page xxx) or have either witnessed or been directly exposed to the power in question.
The character is capable of using all power effects related to the ability, including those the power source may not have. The power source is defined as the being or object which introduces the character to the power for that action scene. All power usage use the same power characteristics as listed within the powers description though certain ones are modified as shown in the stat block below.
In order to duplicate the power, the character must attain a challenge score roll of 25 or greater. Various modifiers are applied to the die roll based on the circumstances of the campaign. The more frequent the character has been exposed to or witnessed the power, the more likely they are of succeeding. The power source may affect the die roll if they are aware of the character’s intentions to duplicate their power.
Characters who fail their challenge score roll are unable to duplicate the power in question. If the power source is cooperative, uncertain or unaware of the character’s attempt, repeated attempts are allowed with no additional modifiers to the challenge score. The character may reattempt duplication a number of times equal to their category in this ability providing the power source meets the above standards. The character may attempt to duplicate the power of an uncooperative power source no more than ¼ their category in this ability.
Powers which may be duplicated must have either a Constant or At-Will activation time. All powers with a Subconscious activation time cannot be duplicated. The activation time is the same as that provided within the duplicated powers description, plus an additional 3 actions. All powers which do not measure their duration in actions cannot be duplicated. Deactivating the power requires the number of listed actions for the ability duplicated plus an additional +2.
A duplicated power always uses the trait it revolves around; for example, if the power requires the Strength trait, the character also uses their Strength. The character acquires a category equal to the applicable basic trait and not that of the power source.
The character may only duplicate one power at a time. When a new power is successfully obtained, the previous one is lost. Characters wanting to regain a previous power they had obtained must make another power duplication roll to succeed and the power must have last been acquired within the same action sequence.
Challenge Score Modifiers
Used multiple times +10 Used few times or in contact with multiple times +5 Never used or in contact minimally or seen many times +0 Never seen power before or Detect Power used -5
Power source cooperative: Add Psyche category of power source Power source uncertain or unaware +0 Power source uncooperative: Subtract Psyche category of power source
posted
As far as I know for Duplicate Boy, he doesn't have to be an adversary in order to duplicate a power nor does he need to be in the vicinity of someone who has a power he is duplicating. I believe he would duplicate all the powers of a multi-powered character (i.e. Superboy). I woulkd say, but I don't know if this is canon, that initially Duplicate Boy would have to be in the vicinity of a person whose powers he wanted to duplicate or as you said, have acquired knowledge of the power. Also I don't think Duplicate Boy is limited to duplicating only one person's power at a time. So he could duplicate Saturn Girl's power while also duplicating Phantom Girl.
I think you are thinking of Nemesis Kid with the one person at a time. However, you may want to have that limit in your game, because otherwise Duplicate Boy becomes almost too powerful.
-------------------- Five billion years from now the Sun will go nova and obliterate the Earth. Don't sweat the small stuff!
From: Boston | Registered: Aug 2003
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Set
There's not a word yet, for old friends who've just met.
posted
I have really only seen Duplicate Boy once, in comic, using his power, and it was to grow to giant size to have a fight over Violet with Colossal Boy.
Everything that follows is non-canon and IMO;
For game-play purposes, I would allow him only to have one person's powers at a time, but to adopt all of those powers. (Unlike, say, Amazo or the Super-Adaptoid or the Super-Skrull or Mimic, who can duplicate the abilities of four or five or so people at once time.)
One important note would be that he wouldn't necessarily *know* all of those powers, if the character he was duplicating had kept some in reserve. So, pretty much everybody knows that Superboy can fly, is invulnerable, super-strong, super-fast and has heat vision, but not everyone knows about the super-cold breath thing, which could take him by surprise, not to mention the random crazy crap Superboy used to pull out of his bottom like super-ventriloquism or super-hypnotism.
I would also be inclined to limit him to the powers of people who are present at the time. Allowing him to meet Mon-El or Superboy once and then just 'be Superboy' for the rest of eternity might be over-the-top. In this case, when travelling with the Heroes of Lallor, he'd be primarily duplicating his teammates abilities, or those of whomever they are facing.
Additionally, I would rule that in taking someone's powers, he also takes on any super-weaknesses they have, such as Kryptonite / antimatter / magic / red sun energy, in the case of Superboy. As a result, he might not even be able to safely duplicate Mon-El's powers for any length of time, as he'd start suffering from lead poisoning. Mon-El's takes a serum that allows him to avoid the effects of lead poisoning, but 'immunity to lead poisoning' is not one of his super-powers.
Technological powers also seem unlikely. If he duplicates a Legionnaire, he doesn't get a free Flight Ring out of it, and if he duplicates Brainy's super-intelligence, he probably shouldn't get a Flight Belt out of the deal (unlike, say, Amazo or the Super-Adaptoid, who do replicate Wonder Woman's lasso or Thor's hammer when they duplicate the powers of those individuals).
Something that Karate Kid would hasten to point out first would be that duplicating someone's *power* doesn't necessarily mean that one will match their *skill.* He might be able to fling around as much raw magnetic force as Cosmic Boy, but he may not have the control to do something microscale like rip the iron out of someone's blood, and duplicating Saturn Girl's telepathy might allow him to read minds and blast people with psychic static, but might not afford him the years worth of experience that Imra has in more subtle uses of her powers (making people see things that aren't there, or forget things, for instance).
Even with these restrictions, Duplicate Boy would be quite potent, and would probably be best kept on a smallish team without any 'heavy hitters' like the Heroes of Lallor or Wanderers. Putting him on a team like the Legion, where he would have twenty or thirty options, would be asking for trouble, IMO.
Registered: Aug 2006
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posted
As far as I know, he basically has any power he wants. The idea that he has to have a power on hand to duplicate it isn't supported by anything; remember the backup a long time ago where the Lallor heroes set up a cheerleader for him to save so that he would regain his confidence? (Tales #317) I don't believe there were any other heroes around for him to copy powers off of.
He's just very ineptly used by the writers. (If I were him, I'd keep super-intelligence and invulnerability up at all times...)
Edit: Yes he can use powers nonviolently. In one of his 1970's appearances he was with Violet when they entered some kind of place where they made tiny circuits. He shrunk down along with her as they entered.
As for whether he's limited to one power at a time, I'm inclined to say no. It's rare for a comic book character to be shown using multiple powers at once unless it's something like flying (in which case yes he has used multiple powers at once). But when Ultra Boy is limited by having to use one power at a time, the readers usually get told, either in word balloons or narration, and we never get told this for Duplicate Boy.
[ May 04, 2010, 09:32 AM: Message edited by: Ken Arromdee ]
Registered: Apr 2010
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posted
PG, to me it looks like your understanding of Duplicate Boy's powers is laid out in terms of role playing him. The way you are doing it sounds as good a way as any.
In comics, Duplicate Boy was often referred to as the most powerful superhero of the 30th century, and the only limits to his powers were his lack of imagination. He's not particularly intelligent when left to his own devices is the impression I have always gotten.
Basically, in comics he can duplicate any power limited only by his imagination. He doesn't need to be near a character to duplicate their power either, he can just simply duplicate it with a thought, and he can duplicate more than one power. More than one time I saw him referred to as the most powerful superhero of the 30th century without qualifier.
He's(Duplicate Boy) right there with the Composite Superman as far as ridiculously overpowered characters from the Silver Age, from the same early Silver Age era as the Composite Superman, and invented by the same writer, Edmund Hamilton, as the Composite Superman.
Hope this helps....
Registered: Mar 2006
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Eryk Davis Ester
Created from the Cosmic Legends of the Universe!
posted
quote:Originally posted by Superboy: He's(Duplicate Boy) right there with the Composite Superman as far as ridiculously overpowered characters from the Silver Age, from the same early Silver Age era as the Composite Superman, and invented by the same writer, Edmund Hamilton, as the Composite Superman.
I believe that, like the rest of the Heroes of Lallor, he was a reader-submitted character.
Anyway, as I understand his powers, he could duplicate the all of the abilities of any other super-being, but can only duplicate one person's powers at a time (though, in practice it's not much of a limitation, since he can switch off fairly rapidly). There's no requirement of being near the being to activate their powers. It's not clear how he initially acquires the ability to duplicate someone's powers, however. It would probably be best if had to have had some contact with Superboy, for example, before he can duplicate Superboy's powers the first time, but I'm not sure if that fits with the available evidence [I'd have to look back at his first appearance]. It seems that there does have to be somebody with the power in question for him to use it (so he couldn't just come up with a completely new power out of thin air and use it).
The two known basic limitations on his power are as follows: 1) There's an upper limit to how powerful a being he can duplicate. He can duplicate Kryptonians, but he can't duplicate Validus, for example. 2) He can't duplicate magic.
From: Liberty City | Registered: Jul 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Eryk Davis Ester: I believe that, like the rest of the Heroes of Lallor, he was a reader-submitted character.
Now that you mention it I think you're right. I think the suggestion, including the name, is actually in one of the old lettercols.
quote: Anyway, as I understand his powers, he could duplicate the all of the abilities of any other super-being, but can only duplicate one person's powers at a time (though, in practice it's not much of a limitation, since he can switch off fairly rapidly). There's no requirement of being near the being to activate their powers. It's not clear how he initially acquires the ability to duplicate someone's powers, however. It would probably be best if had to have had some contact with Superboy, for example, before he can duplicate Superboy's powers the first time, but I'm not sure if that fits with the available evidence [I'd have to look back at his first appearance]. It seems that there does have to be somebody with the power in question for him to use it (so he couldn't just come up with a completely new power out of thin air and use it).
The two known basic limitations on his power are as follows: 1) There's an upper limit to how powerful a being he can duplicate. He can duplicate Kryptonians, but he can't duplicate Validus, for example. 2) He can't duplicate magic.
Now that you mention it I do remember him trying to duplicate Validus and Validus was too powerful for him.
Seems like something similar happened with both Chameleon Boy and Colossal Boy with Validus...similar confrontation or something.
I genuinely don't ever remember there being a limit on one power at a time, he's just not that good at combining them due to his lack of imagination is what I've always thought.
Registered: Mar 2006
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posted
His power limited by his imagination may have been metioned when he fought Colossal Boy...or it could be something from Who's Who in the DC Universe or Secrets of the Legion.
Registered: Mar 2006
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Eryk Davis Ester
Created from the Cosmic Legends of the Universe!
posted
It's not one power at a time. He can certainly duplicate all of Superboy's powers at the same time. But, unlike the Composite Superman, I don't think he could use both Triplicate Girl's and Superboy's powers at the same time. I'm not sure if it's ever explicitly stated, but he does say things to the effect of "Now I'm going to duplicate X's powers", and then stops using whatever powers he was duplicating before, so that seems to be the implication.
From: Liberty City | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
maybe his powers aren't even duplication but reality warping, or some sort of incredible psychic powers where he can do many things but ...... poor dupes can only think of things other people have done already. haha
(p.s. this is just me, nothing to do with his history)
and he can't tell if his girlfriend's a durlan despite the vast amount of powers at his disposal such as telepathy etc....
he seemed to copy super boy/mon-el type powers the most.
From: Ninja Land | Registered: Nov 2004
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posted
He could tell that his girlfriend was a Durlan. He said that Violet "is not the Violet I fell in love with" which was supposed to mean that he knew that Violet was a different person. It was just carefully phrased by Paul Levitz to avoid giving things away to the readers.
He didn't figure out that Violet was kidnapped and assumed she was just absent for some private reason, but he did know it wasn't her.
Registered: Apr 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Quislet, Esq.: As far as I know for Duplicate Boy, he doesn't have to be an adversary in order to duplicate a power nor does he need to be in the vicinity of someone who has a power he is duplicating. I believe he would duplicate all the powers of a multi-powered character (i.e. Superboy). I woulkd say, but I don't know if this is canon, that initially Duplicate Boy would have to be in the vicinity of a person whose powers he wanted to duplicate or as you said, have acquired knowledge of the power. Also I don't think Duplicate Boy is limited to duplicating only one person's power at a time. So he could duplicate Saturn Girl's power while also duplicating Phantom Girl.
I think you are thinking of Nemesis Kid with the one person at a time. However, you may want to have that limit in your game, because otherwise Duplicate Boy becomes almost too powerful.
Wow, do I feel stupid. Your right, I was confusing Duplicate Boy and Nemesis Kid. For the purpose of this thread though both individual's should be discussed to exaustion. I have to develop both of these character's anyway. Thanks for all the excellent posts Legion Fans. May the discussion continue.
By the way, is there a way to go back and look at all the specific threads I have started. Most of the threads were started to acquire information for the game and I would like to see a compiled list of topics I've started. Anyone?
-------------------- I have lived for the Legion and one day I shall die for the Legion.
From: Bgztl | Registered: Feb 2008
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