Eryk Davis Ester
Created from the Cosmic Legends of the Universe!
posted
So, it seems that not too long ago Kid Quantum II was a fairly popular character. Coming off Lost, and during the early issues of The Legion, she seemed to do quite well in "Favorite Legionnaire Polls". Yet in my recent "All-Time Favorite Legionnaire" poll, and in Kid Prime's current football poll, she seems to be doing quite poorly. Does this reflect a genuine change in people's attitudes towards her? Maybe something resulting from her being elected leader? Any thoughts on her sudden decline in popularity after the previous surge?
From: Liberty City | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
Not sure why she was popular to begin with. She's always been my least favorite. Bitch! Steal Condo's powers so he could never join the Legion.
Seriously, never have liked her. Always found her annoying. Don't care much for XS either but that is more because of my dislike of speedsters and not her character. Hmmm. I don't like the two women of color in the group. Doesn't make me sound like a bigot does it?
From: Utah | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
The only sort of popularity I sensed about Kid Q came from during Lost and the beginning of the series when it seemed like DnA were grooming her for leadership. People picked up on the fact that she was presented as leadership material, but other than that, I didn't get a sense that she was becoming all that much popular. If there's a backlash of any kind, it'd probably be because she was a bit too obvious a choice for leadership the way DnA presented -- I dunno.
I like her haircut but I've never been a big fan of hers. Partly because her powers are kinda vague, partly cuz I never really felt too much affinity for leader-types.
From: New York, NY | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
Well at least someone gave her a personality. But for her powers I'm getting the feelin Quantum Physics isn't required learning if you want to be a comics writer.
At least she's a step up from her brother.
-------------------- A Chaotic Neutral stuck in a Lawful Good world
From: Alberta, Canada | Registered: Jul 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Lightning Lad: Not sure why she was popular to begin with. She's always been my least favorite. Bitch! Steal Condo's powers so he could never join the Legion.
Seriously, never have liked her. Always found her annoying. Don't care much for XS either but that is more because of my dislike of speedsters and not her character. Hmmm. I don't like the two women of color in the group. Doesn't make me sound like a bigot does it?
Only if you don't like them BECAUSE of their color.
You're reaction to Kid Q is very strong, Scott. You're entitled, of course, but I do have to say I don't understand it. She's never been one of my favorite characters, either, but I don't see any reason to hate her. Condo had already been "ruined" by previous creative teams introducing him as an adult newscaster.
I did like Jenni, at least in the early days of the reboot. She added a sweetness and exhuberance lacking in most Legionnaires. During LEGION WORLD, she matured somewhat, but nothing has been done with her since.
-------------------- The Semi-Great Gildersleeve - writing, super-heroes, and this 'n' that
From: The Stasis Zone | Registered: Jul 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Lightning Lad: Not sure why she was popular to begin with. She's always been my least favorite. Bitch! Steal Condo's powers so he could never join the Legion.
Seriously, never have liked her. Always found her annoying. Don't care much for XS either but that is more because of my dislike of speedsters and not her character. Hmmm. I don't like the two women of color in the group. Doesn't make me sound like a bigot does it?
Only if you don't like them BECAUSE of their color.
You're reaction to Kid Q is very strong, Scott. You're entitled, of course, but I do have to say I don't understand it. She's never been one of my favorite characters, either, but I don't see any reason to hate her. Condo had already been "ruined" by previous creative teams introducing him as an adult newscaster.
I did like Jenni, at least in the early days of the reboot. She added a sweetness and exhuberance lacking in most Legionnaires. During LEGION WORLD, she matured somewhat, but nothing has been done with her since.
First off, just to clarify, I do not hate them because of their color. It is just unfortunate that my two least favorite Legionnaires happen to be black and happen to be women.
I realize one of the previous creative teams ruined Condo by flippantly (IMO) using the name for a newscaster. I think they just wanted to draw on Legion history and use someone not used since the re-boot. Then teasing with tying him to Lyle and then dropping all of that just made it worse. And maybe that's why I can't stand Kid Q.
Maybe it also has to do with her brother as well. Trying to push him into Legion history (pre-booot) like he was always there. They did the same with Laurel Gand to get rid of Kara and I don't like Laurel either.
I guess it boils down to me not liking change. I want my old Legion back. I make no qualms about that. Sure, I'm enjoying the new group but it isn't with the same love as the pre-boot.
And do you want to know who I blame all of this on? John Byrne. The man killed the Legion I loved by dismissing any effect that Clark Kent having a life as Superboy would have on any other title except what he was working on. I just dread seeing what else (besides Imra's corpse) he's going to subject Legion fans to in Generations.
But I'm happy the Legion is still going and still has a very active fan base. I can put up with the changes I guess. Just don't make me put up with Kid Q II too much longer as leader. Other Legionnaires deserve the spotlight and her time is long over.
From: Utah | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
I never understood the necessity of retconning the original Kid Quantum into preboot history, either. It worked better in postboot Legion origin, I think.
I think Kid Q II's installation as leader, at least partly, was an attempt to be politically correct. Look: She's black and she's a woman and she's the leader, they seemed to be saying. To that end, they've given her a tough-as-nails personality, someone who doesn't take b.s. (rather like Amanda Waller, the other prominent black, female leader in comics, of the old Suicide Squad). That's not a bad thing in and of itself, but the nature of the present comic is that no character gets a lot of personal attention and that means she comes off as one-dimensional. If that "tough" persona is all we see, it can be off-putting.
At least that's my take on why the "backlash." But, like all leaders, ratings are a fickle indication of popularity. Maybe she needs to declare war on something.
-------------------- The Semi-Great Gildersleeve - writing, super-heroes, and this 'n' that
From: The Stasis Zone | Registered: Jul 2003
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And how was Condo Arlik "tied to" Lyle? Is this the whole "C--" thing? cuz one consonant does not a connection make, imo.
From: New York, NY | Registered: Jul 2003
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quote:Originally posted by DrakeB3003: How did you feel about Tyroc?
And how was Condo Arlik "tied to" Lyle? Is this the whole "C--" thing? cuz one consonant does not a connection make, imo.
Okay quick post as I thought I was done for the night.
I liked Tyroc. Even if he was an angry black man in a funny outfit. I wish they could have found a better use for him. His origin was neat, I thought, and he had a different power than I remember ever seeing up to that point.
And I was talking about the whole 'C' thing and I know it was just a tease to get everyone thinking. But they could have at least had him receiving a gift from say Candi to explain it rather than letting it drop. You know as a Legion fan we are bound to pick up a clue like that and just run wild with it.
From: Utah | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
I think it's clear that the "C" was intended to be Condo. The previous issues had alluded to a previous connection or relationship between Lyle and Mr. Arlik. They never did come and say it, of course.
As for Tyroc (I realize your question was meant for Scott, but I'll answer it, too), he was a misguided attempt to right a past wrong. DC, being a rather conservative company in those days, never got around to creating a black Legionnaire until 1976. When they did, they relied on some very stereotyped ideas of black folks. Tyroc wore a disco costume, for crying out loud. He had an ill-defined power that could do almost anything. Furthermore, he was an Angry Young Black Man, and we all know that all young black men in the '70s were angry ...
I don't think any overt racism was intended on DC's part when they created Tyroc. But, as with Marvel's Luke ("Sweet Chris'mas") Cage, he was created by white comics creators who were writing for a largely white audience, both with very limited notions of what people who were different from them were like.
[/soapboax off]
-------------------- The Semi-Great Gildersleeve - writing, super-heroes, and this 'n' that
From: The Stasis Zone | Registered: Jul 2003
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quote:Originally posted by He Who Wanders: I think Kid Q II's installation as leader, at least partly, was an attempt to be politically correct. Look: She's black and she's a woman and she's the leader, they seemed to be saying.
How is this being p.c.? They weren't "saying" anything about the fact that she was black or a woman, that's simply what she is -- if that's how you want to categorize her, that's your issue. (when Rokk or Lyle or Garth or Jo or Jan or Drake or Brek were leaders were the writers saying "hey look, whitey's in charge!"). Does this mean that *any* black character they put in the role of leader would've been an attempt at being "p.c."? Did you feel the same way about Storm being leader of the X-Men, Sisko as Captain of DS9 or Josiah Powers as head of Power Company? I don't remember Jazmin's skin color ever being brought up so how was it part of DnA's agenda?
There's been such a strong backlash against political correctness that the basic premise has been lost -- that for *hundreds* of years the status quo has been white male protestant. Now that things are "equal" any attempt to even the playing field is seen as unfair favoritism. The anti-p.c. backlash has been a pretty convenient tool for the convervative right to keep things the way they were and dismiss the concerns of those who have been marginalized in this society for far too long (not just blacks). I know I'm getting into a rant here and I'm obviously spouting off on something more than the original post that started this, but that's my soapbox moment of the evening.
[ July 21, 2003, 12:27 AM: Message edited by: DrakeB3003 ]
From: New York, NY | Registered: Jul 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Lightning Lad: You know as a Legion fan we are bound to pick up a clue like that and just run wild with it.
quote:Originally posted by He Who Wanders: I think it's clear that the "C" was intended to be Condo. The previous issues had alluded to a previous connection or relationship between Lyle and Mr. Arlik. They never did come and say it, of course.
I wasn't reading the book at the time so if there was an actual relationship suggested between Lyle and Condo, that's one thing (I hadn't heard about it). Otherwise, you're right LL, when you say that you took one allusion and "ran wild with it." Was the "C-" passage even meant to be a romantic connection??
From: New York, NY | Registered: Jul 2003
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Storm and Sisko at least had individual personalities which were fleshed out beyond just being black. (I didn't read Power Company.) I don't think that's true of Kid Q, at least as DnA have presented her. But, hey that's just my opinion. I don't have issues with her being black or being leader. I just don't think she's been handled well since becoming leader.
You are also misrepresenting my previous post. Is describing the treatment of any black character in fiction as p.c. an indictment against ALL black characters? Hardly. Should we accept just any character, who happens to be a certain color, without a critical eye? I don't think so. To do so smacks of tokenism, which, to me, is just as wrong as excluding people of color entirely.
-------------------- The Semi-Great Gildersleeve - writing, super-heroes, and this 'n' that
From: The Stasis Zone | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
I totally agree that race doesn't exclude a fictional character from the same standards of criticism -- I went off on a rant on more generalities than you brought up. I'm sorry that you thought I was misrepresenting you personally because I took one comment of yours as a platform for other issues.
But with regards to Kid Q -- has DnA (or PMS)ever presented her as a "black character?" If not, then I don't see that p.c. has anything do do with it. If you don't think she's been handled well that's one thing, but how is she different than when Sisko initially got the job of commanding DS9? I will suggest that the "anti-p.c." reaction has made you less receptive to Jazmin as leader than if she were an equally unfleshed out white character. If I'm wrong, I apologize, but I ask the question all the same.
From: New York, NY | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
Funny, but on the Diversity thread, I mentioned that Gear had black skin, but I totally forgot about Kid Q (Jenni I figured is Indian). Just forgot about the character herself. That doesn't say much for her personality.
She is presented as a tough leader concerned about everyone; we don't seem to pick up much else of her personality. Very odd, since she spent a whole issue shepherding Timber Wolf around, we see her mourning Element Lad, concerned about Cub and Tinya - but somehow the tough leader only comes through. "Don't you love it when she's masterful?" Wildfire asked Invisible Kid.
It could be a bit of the tough female is a bitch, tough male is a leader - but I don't really think so. She doesn't seem at all bitchy. We just really see her responding to big crises. Some down time scenes might help develop her personality.
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