posted
You know, I had all but forgotten about her showing Timber Wolf around and her visiting Element Lad's memorial. But it still wasn't enough for me to like her. Maybe, as you've suggested, some downtime stories with her might change that opinion. I guess I feel the older characters, and by older I mean those who existed prior to the re-boot, are more fleshed out and comfortable where she is not. Maybe she is just a bit too 2-dimensional at this time.
quote:Originally posted by DrakeB3003: I wasn't reading the book at the time so if there was an actual relationship suggested between Lyle and Condo, that's one thing (I hadn't heard about it). Otherwise, you're right LL, when you say that you took one allusion and "ran wild with it." Was the "C-" passage even meant to be a romantic connection??
It has been awhile since I read the issues involved and I don't trust my memory any farther than I can throw it, but I remember it being portrayed as a look at Lyle's private life, hinting at an here-to-for unknown relationship with someone outside the Legion. It also seems that there was a hint of a history between Lyle and Condo. I've said it before, I really need to go back and read all of the Legion/Legionnaire issues.
From: Utah | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
I grew rather fond of Kid Quantum during Legion Lost, and have been happy with her character since. Unfortunately, she does suffer from a power that is difficult to describe. Additionally, she has not been intimately involved with any of the major plots since. Granted, her role as leader keeps her in panels, it doesn't necessarily express any deep traits.
Given that so many other characters can rely on years and years of history, Kid Quantum has a slight disadvantage.
Overall, I think she has promise, and I certainly have characters that I favor less than her.
From: Portland, Oregon | Registered: Jul 2003
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quote:Originally posted by DrakeB3003: I totally agree that race doesn't exclude a fictional character from the same standards of criticism -- I went off on a rant on more generalities than you brought up. I'm sorry that you thought I was misrepresenting you personally because I took one comment of yours as a platform for other issues.
That's okay.
quote:But with regards to Kid Q -- has DnA (or PMS)ever presented her as a "black character?" If not, then I don't see that p.c. has anything do do with it. If you don't think she's been handled well that's one thing, but how is she different than when Sisko initially got the job of commanding DS9? I will suggest that the "anti-p.c." reaction has made you less receptive to Jazmin as leader than if she were an equally unfleshed out white character. If I'm wrong, I apologize, but I ask the question all the same.
Your first question here supposes that they are actually going to come out and say "Look we've got a black character in charge!" That's never the case. Since Jazmin is black, it's obvious for all to see.
I think it becomes p.c. when you have a black character about whom you can't say she has any other distinguishing features or personality traits than being black. PMS did a better job at giving her a personality (albeit an angry one, though her anger was based on the death of her brother, not race). DnA evolved her character much during lost, but, as leader, she seems to have become little more than window dressing. As the leader, I would have expected Kid Q to have more screen time than she's had, much like Saturn Girl had when she was in charge.
[Edited to expound a bit and clean up mistakes while posting in a hurry.]
[ July 21, 2003, 09:11 PM: Message edited by: He Who Wanders ]
-------------------- The Semi-Great Gildersleeve - writing, super-heroes, and this 'n' that
From: The Stasis Zone | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
RE: the Condo-Lyle thing - I don't know how far back this goes in the fans' minds - Condo and Lyle were set up as a potential couple since pre-boot Condo was supposed to revere/admire/vrb of your choice Lyle for helping him to control his powers. It's the sort of thing Dr. Werthram would pounce on, but I don't know if anyone at the time - and the writers themselves - were suggesting anything romantic between the two.
The post-boot Condo had a couple panels with Lyle, in which they were shown being amicable to one another - like talking, shaking hands after an interview. Then there was the big teaser, the note from "C.". Speculators that we are, it got blown up into a full-fledged romance, if I recall, we were even discussing whether Condo was too old for Lyle. So no basis in fact, lots of basis in imagination and who knows?
posted
Don't forget that a big part of the speculation is based on the fact that the 'C' note scene occurred in an issue dedicated to Legionnaires on dates. Hearts on the cover and all...
That interview might have been in the same issue-- I'm not exactly sure. I do remember that they were both wearing big grins for which the description 'shit-eating- wouldn't be amiss.
posted
That's true RS - she did not really exhibit any outstanding leadership during Legion Lost - not that she wasn't responsible but I think she mostly did what was ordered.
Cosmic Boy really had her elected through his own machinations. There was a scene in which he told her that he knew she'd be a good leader because she told him to think of the whole of Metropolis before going after Ra's al Ghul. That was a bit forced.
Only Ayla was shown as unhappy over her election - and that was more due to some personal friction, rather than confidence in Jazmin's leadership abilities.
posted
I don't like her ear rings or g-string. Does that make me superficial?
Her ill defined powers, ill thought out origin and bad hair (yup, I am superficial)don't help any either...
From: home sweet home... unless i'm posting from work | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
[Lightning Lad] {[...] It is just unfortunate that my two least favorite Legionnaires happen to be black and happen to be women. }
I hope you won't mind my running with this for a moment, and I'm not picking in particular on Scott, just making use of how he happened to phrase things here.
I have to ask, quite simply, and in the sense of questioning all assumptions: Why? Why is this situation, in particular, any more "unfortunate" than others?
If your two least favorite Legionnaires were Ultra Boy and Mon-el, and they happened to be white and happened to be men, would that be something "unfortunate," as such? And if not, why not?
You have favorites, and non-favorites, as we all do. For me, to say that one or more of those choices is more or less "unfortunate" on the sole basis of any skin color or gender is to say, implicitly, that skin color or gender are legitimate principal reasons for making such distinctions.
Is that what Scott means to imply? I tend to doubt it. Yet is there something inherently wrong with believing that? Here I will part company with many others, as I have elsewhere, and say: No, not necessarily. It depends.
Many who decry "prejudice" at the drop of an eyelash also tend to have a circle of friends with roughly the same narrow range of melanin in their skin tones. Or a spouse who's that way.
Preferring to have friends, associates, or spouses of a particular skin-tone range -- or fictional characters, or children's toys, for that matter -- is entirely common. And, I'd say, entirely free of being "prejudiced" or bigoted, all things being equal that should be equal.
What do I mean by this last? If, for example, mental ability or competence is at issue, for hiring someone or a similar relationship, that is a context where individuals are not equal, and where one's level of melanin is not relevant. Bringing it in, anyway, is to decide on the basis of a factor that is not, objectively, relevant to the issue at hand -- of whom would be best to be hired. That lack of objective practice is what makes it less than properly rational. And that, in turn, is what makes it wrong.
If one's friends, associates, potential spouses, or preferred comics characters are chosen on objective factors, though, not ruling them out for matters that are trivial or irrelevant -- many such factors become roughly equal. And it's then not "prejudice" as such, to me, to let one's more detailed preferences be guided by individual tastes. Such as with build, looks, personality, life experiences, vocabulary, shared passions, super-powers {g} ... or even skin color.
To put it more directly, I don't think that anyone should berate others -- or oneself -- for having such tastes, as such. It's where and how one deals with them or uses them that matters.
From: Starhaven Consulate, City of Angels | Registered: Jul 2003
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