Eryk Davis Ester
Created from the Cosmic Legends of the Universe!
posted
As long as we're re-evaluating legacies, what did people like about Peyer, McCraw, and Stern's version of the Legion?
From: Liberty City | Registered: Jul 2003
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What issues would you say fall into this era? From the beginning of the Reboot to the Emerald Vi storyline? Or am I way off on that?
From: If you don't want my peaches, honey... | Registered: Sep 2003
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Eryk Davis Ester
Created from the Cosmic Legends of the Universe!
posted
I was thinking from when Waid leaves (approximately Legionnaires Annual #2) to when DnA take over.
From: Liberty City | Registered: Jul 2003
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Like DnA, the reboot got off to an amazing start IMO. I *LOVED* the first couple of years!
In fact the only reason I am the Legion fan I am today (of all eras) is because of the high quality of great stories like the White Triangle story, the President Chu-sting story, the Triad spotlight, the Andromeda spotlight, the Brainiac 5 spotlight, the two Tangleweb stories, the find-the-Fatal-Five story, the Planet Hell story, ... etc.
"All good things..." though and I consider the post-boot Legion's thundering crash in quality (pre DnA) to begin at the exact point of one storyline - Emerald Violet. It is here I consider the wretched and hideous era that shall forever be cursed with the name <shudder> PMS <shudder> to begin.
Nearly everything that I consider what went wrong with the reboot can be laid at the feet of that one awful story - the death of Leviathan, the ruination of Violet, Team 20... if this one story had never been written I think we'd still be reading about the reboot Legion today.
I can't think of anything I liked about the writing during this period - OK one thing, I liked the first couple of post-Emerald Violet issues of Legionnaires (despite the Snake) and especially liked Magno - but it was the artwork by Jeff Moy and the colouring by W.C. Carani (whom I miss more and more when I see the colouring in the current book) that I appreciated more than anything. Jeff Moy was a real talent I thought so I was always more than a little annoyed when I kept seeing his less talented brother's name in the credits. What was all that about?
From: Australia | Registered: Dec 2003
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It's hard to believe that the much maligned Peyer/McCraw/Stern era took up the bulk of the pre-DnA reboot era, from LSH # 72 and Legionnaires # 29 (both Sept. 95) to LSH # 121 and Legionnaires # 77 (Nov. 99) -- a total of 99 regular issues over four years.
In many ways, I see their work as a continuation of Waid's. They followed his pattern of reintroducing old characters and ideas, such as the battle with Lightning Lord or the Fatal Five. But PMS added their own twists, incorporating Garth's loss of his arm into the former story and tying the Chu sting in with the latter. PMS were on a roll at the this point, combining the best of past stories with original ideas.
I agree with Blacula that the Emerald Vi story marked a turn for the worse. Too much was happening on too many fronts. This entire story was a setup for dividing the team into two groups (an apparent mechanism for coping with the Legion's large cast and two books). Leviathan's death was shoehorned into all this; it should have been a much bigger event.
Even though I disliked the Team 20/30 arc and the numerous crossovers that resulted, some very good stories appeared therein, including Spark running away (LSH 89), the reintroduction of Ferro, and the Mordru story, which saw the Legion leading an army of heroes against a powerful adversary. Live Wire's initial dislike of Magno turned into admiration for the former's sacrifice, one of the more significant character developments of PMS.
I think PMS' most important accomplishment was in treating the Legionnaires as kids who were also heroes. The Legionnaires had the temperment of teenagers who were struggling to find their own identities, as well as save the galaxy.
After the two teams were reunited in LSH # 100, PMS lost direction. Their next attempt at a major storyline, "Dark Circle Rising" was a well-intentioned mess. Then came the Bizarro Legion story, a good sign that too many things had been rebooted.
PMS' only real fault, in my opinion, was overstaying their welcome.
[ July 03, 2005, 08:37 PM: Message edited by: He Who Wanders ]
-------------------- The Semi-Great Gildersleeve - writing, super-heroes, and this 'n' that
From: The Stasis Zone | Registered: Jul 2003
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But was it fair, HWW, to replace both Legion writing/art teams with a new creative trio whose attempt to lead the Legion into fresher and newer frontiers ultimately led to both books being cancelled months later?
After Zero Hour, it took me a while to get used to Lee Moder's art style, but by the 20th Century stories arc, he really improved (see issue 96 for a truly outstanding display of talent) thanks to Ron Boyd's inking.
On LEGIONNAIRES the same could be said for the Moy/Carani team. The Chris Sprouse-Karl Story art team should have continued, but for reasons never really explained (not by Australian distributors, anyway)the musical chairs procession of fill-in artists plus the Zero Hour reboot, only served to foment more confusion and outrage amongst old time Legionphiles like myself.
But getting back on subject, MC proved to be the better art team of the two books, ably assisted by Roger Stern on the writing front. It was not until Jason Armstrong's several-issue stint that someone had "jumped the shark" - that was when the quality began to slip. Armstrong improved remarkably after LEGION 105, but it was already too late to recover the ground lost.
Then Scott Kolins happened - and by LEGION 112, the artwork on the book was back to being a visual treat...until the powers-that-be decided that in your own words "both creative teams outstayed their welcome".
A wrong move. Sorry for my harsh words, dude, but i guess some liked the PMS era and you liked another - you are entitled to an opinion just as i am entitled to mine.
Or anybody else's for that matter.
From: Adelaide, Australia | Registered: Jun 2005
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HWW, i re-read your message...The idea to split up the team into two groups was never a concept i liked.
The Levitz era had its overcrowding phase, too. Just a bunch of young adults too caught up in hanging out at HQ to be concerned about saving the universe - must have given the art team/s a case of RSI just to cope with such a large cast.
Jim Shooter had the right idea when he wrote the book. Each story dealt with a small group of Legionnaires who were given a chance to shine in the spotlight. Basing a story around an isolated group of five or more members gave it a chance to spread the action around, not just restrict it by adding more Legionnaires (cameo appearences not withstanding).
I hope my latest tendency to waffle has at least given you and others plenty to think about.
From: Adelaide, Australia | Registered: Jun 2005
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I liked the fact that Monstress and Sensor were portrayed as very polite and considerate characters (in other words, classy).
And I guess that I might as well 'fess up and admit that I got a real kick out of Brainy's secret affection for Koko the monkey, too.
-------------------- Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, so the meek[s] shall inherit inherit the Earth, but what about the geeks? I still want Baffin Island--polar bears and all! :)
From: Brampton, Canada | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Mediocre Boy: [And I guess that I might as well 'fess up and admit that I got a real kick out of Brainy's secret affection for Koko the monkey, too. [/QB]
He hated the flea-ridden parasite, Mediocre - he always said so!!!! LOL
From: Adelaide, Australia | Registered: Jun 2005
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Blacula: [It was the artwork by Jeff Moy and the colouring by W.C. Carani (whom I miss more and more when I see the colouring in the current book) that I appreciated more than anything.
Tom McCraw did an excellent job colouring the books, Blacula, just as Carani did a super job inking Jeff Moy's pencils.
From: Adelaide, Australia | Registered: Jun 2005
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Whoops. Right you are legionadventureman. I thought it looked wrong as I was typing it. They did indeed all do a great job though.
From: Australia | Registered: Dec 2003
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I agree that the pre-PMS reboot was the highlight, and I am fortunate enough to have read all the issues included in that era at least once, even though I don't own all of them. (I'm still desperately trying to cobble the White Triangle saga together and am missing the final few issues).
I also agree that the first few issues after Waid left were still great; the Fatal Five saga as a whole and LSH 80 in particular wrapped up a great number of subplots and rallied the team in a way we hadn't seen in a while.
The Emerald Vi storyline may have messed a few things up and made it seem like the book was wandering aimlessly, with a lot of arcs becoming kind of silly and never reaching their full potential, but but at least the books never lost their light-hearted, bright, happy and hopeful atmosphere. The Legionnaires had experiences which I could empathize with, being about their age at that time.
What else? Kinetix, Gates and XS were great characters with unique personalities, and each developed significantly as characters over the years. Sarcastic Gates managed to form tentative friendships with Brainy, Star Boy and Ultra Boy; XS slowly matured from the scared little girl into a more confident, though still a bit naive young woman; bubbly, perky Kinetix had to confront her power lust and deal with all the issues surrounding best friend Violet.
Umbra and Monstress were both a little extreme in personality but they did add to the diversity of the team. Poor Star Boy was like the kid in class who stayed under the radar and messed up more often than most. Chameleon was like the guy next door, a friend to all, even though he was close friends with only a few. Spark tried so hard to "reconnect" with her twin brother and I liked her mix of seriousness and irresponsibility. Even the ever-dependable Cosmic Boy showed some chinks in his armor once in a while. And let's not get started on Brainiac 5 (he was a masterpiece of the era, for me).
The Saturn Girl-Cosmic Boy - Live Wire triangle may have put them in a bit of a bad light, but let's remember that teenage love is like that; sometimes you don't realize what your true feelings are until it's too late and you've hurt a lot of people. But I love how Imra dealt with her emotional issues and how Garth had to deal with his immaturity. Triad's three personalities and her painful past struck a chord too, as did Sensor's issues with her father and Fero's issues in general. I also sympathized with Tinya's problems with her mother AND father AND intangibility- and I really didn't think she was being overly whiny. Ultra Boy may have been a bit of a jerk sometimes, but never too much so and he was always ready to make amends. M'Onel was a bit of a tragic hero and I liked his portrayal as a detached loner. Invisible Kid was the coolest ever, though even he struggled at times. Ferro and Karate Kid rounded out the team nicely, and while Element Lad was a bit too quirky for me he did provide a unique perspective.
Through it all, the team had to grow up, but they did it gradually and were never forced to grow up too fast. For a kid living in a high-pressure environment at school, the Legionnaires were characters whom I could truly relate to.
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