Topic: What would v4 have been like under Lightle's guidance?
Eryk Davis Ester
Created from the Cosmic Legends of the Universe!
posted
I posted this before, but it got wiped out in one of the blackouts. With Steve hanging around more lately, I thought it might be fun.
So what would the Legion have been like had Steve rather than Keith Giffen been given creative control of the series after Paul Levitz left?* My guess is that he would have continued Levitz's pattern of developing the "next generation" of Legionnaires (Blok, White Witch, Invisible Kid II, Tellus, etc.) rather than moving the series back to a focus on the Adventure-era characters in the way Giffen did.
*Note that this isn't a thread for TMK-bashing, but rather for speculation.
From: Liberty City | Registered: Jul 2003
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I think my feelings about v4 are well known. If Steve was the man in control at that time I would most likely still own every issue of the various legion titles, as it is I sold them all about 18 months into v4. AAARRRGGGHHH!!!!
-------------------- Just an Old, Broke-Down, Drunk, Bum!!
With a Power Ring...
From: Westerly Rhode Island | Registered: Aug 2003
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posted
I imagine that I would have introduced another non humanoid Legionnaire, eventually. I am the one who suggested introducing a Khundish Legionnaire, although the story and character which I had planned would have been vastly different than what Levitz and Giffen eventually did. Likewise, my suggestion that Wildfire regain his physical body, only to eventually willingly relinquish it, would have been handled in an entirely different way.
I doubt that you would have seen many nine panel grids. Certainly, Dawnstar would not have lost her wings, Mysa would not have become Mordru's abused spouse, Dreamy would not have turned into a compulsive eater, and Dirk Morgna would not have died.
Polar Boy would have proven himself to be a pillar of the Legion. My interpretation of Brek was always a stronger, more respectful one, than Giffen's. Mon-El may very well have had to face his one true weakness ... the emotional scars he acquired as a result of his 1,000 year imprisonment in the Phantom Zone. Although the scars might never be fully erased, you can rest assured that Mon would have emerged as a stronger character as a result of having faced them. Maybe Ultra Boy and Phantom Girl would have moved to Rimbor, and become a very socially conscious superhero team on their own. They were in need of some character growth. Myg (Karate Kid 2) would have probably played a supporting role, perhaps becoming a director/trainer for the Legion Academy. The political aspect of the United Planets was due for exploration. Corruption within the Science Police might have been an issue that could have impacted the Legion of Super-Heroes, and their place in the U.P. Challenges, both personal and intergalactic, would have surely occurred ... but I have to believe that the Legion's ideals and virtue would ultimately remain intact.
I believe the greatest difference is that Giffen painted a universe ruled by chaos, while I would have focused on a positive universe frequently under attack by the forces of chaos. Ultimately, the story of the Legion must be a story of hope. We already know the dread future that awaits us if we fail to resist our destructive impulses. The Legion is about the difference that we can make if we join together, despite our differences, and reach for the best that we have in us. The Legion's future should always remain a vision created and maintained by people who have not lost the strength to dream.
Despite the many creative accomplishments of the post 5 year gap storytellers, their one fatal flaw might well have been that they remembered too late what the dream behind the Legion was all about.
Well, that is my opinion, anyway.
So, in answer to the question, "What would version 4 have been like under Lightle's guidance" ... I can only say one thing with a certainty. It would have been different in tone and message.
posted
I would have loved to have read that. Especially on issues drawn by you.
I love your idea of sending Jo and Tinya to Rimbor, that is certainly a place where they could do a lot of good (unfortunately they would not be able to remain very active as Legionnaires, would they?). And your view of Mon-el is spot on, that also would have made for excellent stories.
Yes, I would have prefered that to what came in v4. Oh, well. But perhaps in the future you'll be able to further influence where the present Legion is going. That Khundian Legionnaire sounds promising...
posted
WOW. Thanks for the detailed answer, Steve.
In my attempts to look at the Giffbaum era fairly, I tend to say that the ideas they had, while completely misguided, COULD have been handled well. They just WEREN'T-- on EVERY SINGLE level. (sigh)
The whole time it was going on, I never once thought "If only Steve Lightle were doing this." Probably because Steve had moved on and was doing something else (which I never got interested in enough to buy). But while it was going on, hardly a month went by when I didn't think, "If only BARRY KITSON were doing this." At the time, Barry was doing absolutely SUPERB work on L., a viscious, nasty, mean-spirited S.O.B. series-- but somehow one that had class IN SPITE of itself. (Let's not forget, THAT was keith's idea, TOO.) I just felt it criminal that such a fantastic artist was-- to my eyes-- being WASTED on the "spin-off" book, instead of the "real" one.
And then STUART IMMONEN came along, and I was in a state of shock. The whole time HE was doing the book-- at a point when it was under almost constant fire from those who loved the Giffbaum era-- I kept thinking, "If only Stuart had drawn the Giffbaum era instead of Keith." GOD ALMIGHTY, at least I could have stood to LOOK at it... and I'm sure his storytelling (like Adam Hughes when HE teamed with Keith on JLA) would have improved on what was already there.
Registered: Aug 2003
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Superboy2000
What a great year to be a fan of the Ever Lovin Legion
posted
Wow....Steve your answer is the reason why we Legion fans love your work so much. You understand the Legion more so than anyone who has worked on the book in the last 15 years. v4 under your guidance could have catapulted that version of the Legion to greatness.
-------------------- The Legion is Back!!! All Three of Them....How Sprocking Magnificent!!!
From: Amarillo, Texas | Registered: Aug 2003
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posted
Chalk me up as one who LOVES the Giffen/Biernbaum Legion. I hadn't been reading them AT ALL since the Crisis, but all it took was one look at this strange new Legion... and I was THERE!
The way I saw it, once the killed off Superboy, they killed off the Legion.
That's right-- there is no Legion any more. It's dead. Without Clark (Superboy) Kent, Linda Lee (Supergirl) Danvers, Krypto and Streaky, it's not worth reading.
However, the Giffen/Biernbaum stuff was wild and different... and very cool. One of the few bright spots in the post-Crisis DC Universe.
PS: I love Steve Lightle's art, though!
Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
Dog, thanks for dropping by to express your thoughts. Quite a few people, although far from the majority as sales showed, did like the Giffen/Bierbaum era. It did succeed in shaking up the status quo, which was probably necessary. Giving the creative team all due respect, I still strongly disagree with the negative, sometimes morbid, approach that they seemed to take.
Of course I don't expect any two Legion fans to agree on everything. For instance, I don't believe that the LSH was all about Clark Kent and his family of characters. Some of my least favorite Legion stories are those that involve Pete Ross, Jimmy Olsen, Lana Lang, and other Superboy cast members, as central figures.
There is no way that I could relegate the entire Legion cast to Kal-El's shadow. Frankly, I'm one of those people who thinks that Superboy too often steals the spotlight when he is featured in a Legion tale. I should also admit, that although I have been a Legion fan for nearly thirty years, I am not a big follower of the Superman books. Superman/Superboy always seemed just a bit too perfect, in personality and physical abilities ... almost boring. When he is working side by side with the Legion, he seems less immortal ... more like one of the guys.
I guess, that if my theory about diversity and a optimistic sense of community being central to the success of the Legion is correct, then the concept of any one member being indispensable works against that central theme.
I'll leave the topic open for others, though. What are your thoughts on the subject?
Thanks again, to Dog Boy, for taking the time to share his opinions.
posted
I second the emotion. Whilst I found it difficult at first to adjust to such an extreme change I ended up loving the TMK era.
From: UK | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
The 5YG was were I joined up as a Legion fan. Issue 12's announcement by Cham that "they're back!" is one of the most hopeful and inspiring bits of characterisation I've read in any comic.
I still think there's plenty of positives in this part of the Legion's history. The realistic supportive love between Jo and Furball, the power of Rokks personality that drives him to face off against Mordru, Chams determination to re-build a legend, Vi's ability to keep going and function as a wonderful loving person after all the appalling things she has had to live through etcetc
The only difference is we are shown the horrors that affect day to day lives too. Mysas abusive marriage is particularly poignant as it's something that even today a LOT of people have to live through without the hope of a gang of friends from their past coming to liberate them.
And I liked the 9 panel grid as it made the artist THINK about how to fit thestory into the page rather than just throwing big splash panels all over. I really believe that 90% of all pictures that take up a whole page are driven by laziness not by any story telling skill and as an example who wasn't impressed with the panel that heralded the return of Jan? WOW!! After such a brilliant subtle creepy inspired build up his return was incredible!
Anyway, this seems to be everyone favourite bug bear era of the Legion so I'll get off the soap box and make room for the next voice.
-------------------- "Tempus Fugitive" the final part of the Adventures of Dream Boy series, set in the Three-Boot Universe. Read it only in the Bits o' Legionnaire Business Forum.
From: here, more often than not | Registered: Sep 2003
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