posted
From a Bleeding Cool report on the New York DC Retailer Roadshow last Friday:
quote:Barbara Gordon is back as Batgirl. The events of Killing Joke and her tenure as Oracle have occurred and this title addresses her return to the role.
quote:Barbara Gordon will still be part of the [BoP] book.
--and regarding Steph Batgirl,
quote: what about Stephanie Brown? It was hinted that we would see her in Batman Incorporated. Dan Didio said she worked better as Spoiler.
-------------------- "Anytime a good book like this is cancelled, I hope another Teen Titan is murdered." --Cobalt
"Anytime an awesome book like S6 is cancelled, I hope EVERY Titan is murdered." --Me
From: Up a Gumtree | Registered: Jul 2003
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quote:TINY TITANS #45 Written by ART BALTAZAR and FRANCO Art and cover by ART BALTAZAR On sale OCTOBER 19 • 32 pg, FC, $2.99 US • RATED E You are invited to a special Batgirl issue featuring Cassandra, Stephanie, Flamebird and, of course, Barbara. Find out what happens to The Batcave when the girls take over!
-- ? Some of the DC October solicits are mindnumbingly headscratching... mostly the trades.
Still getting this, though.
-------------------- "Anytime a good book like this is cancelled, I hope another Teen Titan is murdered." --Cobalt
"Anytime an awesome book like S6 is cancelled, I hope EVERY Titan is murdered." --Me
From: Up a Gumtree | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
If you aren't reading Tiny Titans, you are missing a treasure. Imagine a mind meld of Julius Schwartz and Charles Schultz.
-------------------- ...but you don't have a moment where you're sitting there staring at a table full of twenty-five characters with little name signs that say, "Hi, my superpower is confusing you!"
From: Chicago, IL | Registered: Jul 2004
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I saved this book for next-to-last to read, meaning I was really looking forward to it.
While I thought it was okay, I was a bit let down.
Where other titles' final pages had me hooked for the next issue, this books' final page is almost a dealbreaker for me.
Babs freezing at the gun being held on her by Mirror was not my problem... it was the COP who had the nerve to pull the gun on Babs and call her a murderer IN DEFENSE OF THE FAMILY-KILLING SCUMBAG that Mirror had just killed.
That guy was absolute trash and IMO deserved every bit of what he got.
I'm seriously on the fence after that scene. Didn't like it one bit. IMO the same should have been done to the Joker years ago. I know it's supposed to be innocent until proven guilty but we had JUST witnessed the horror this guy was capable of. I repeat: HATED that scene. How dare anyone be upset this psycho would NEVER be able to slaughter families again!! Yep, I had major problems with that.
On the plus side, the art is good and Gail is still able to create some memorable villains.
posted
So the red-headed Barbara Gordon has an "eidetic memory" and there's a new tv show about a red-headed crime-fighter called "Unforgettable" about a woman who would appear to have HSAM, an advanced kind of photographic memory which has red-headed Marilu Henner (who has HSAM)as a consultant... coincidence?? (yeah, probably but I thought it was interesting)
Reading "Batgirl #1" and "Detective Comics #1" it seems people with Bats on their chest dive into situations without being totally prepared. (and yes, that actually applies to Batman - crazy, huh?) The Big Secret of this series so far would appear to be the "miracle" that gave Babs her use of her legs, but for me it's the "miracle" that gave the Commish his youthful red hair again. (does that put him on Mirror's list? )
From: New York, NY | Registered: Jul 2003
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It made sense that Barbara has not entirely recovered, psychologically, from the Joker's attack; it was good to see she has some weakness to overcome. I'd agree that the cop's reaction didn't make sense; a cop of all people must know that things go wrong sometimes, someone doesn't act fast enough and people get killed. Unless there's something about the cop that we don't yet know.
The Mirror is a very interesting villain. Vigilante of some sort, rather than going for personal power/gain.
Babs is sort of pushing her luck for her secret identity by getting a roommate. She can't afford her own place - or does she want to get found out? If the book explores Barbara's psyche, I'll be interested - but if it's just another Bat family member chasing troublemakers, I'll pass.
posted
I don't think of the Mirror as a vigilante, more like a nutjob who's seen too many of those "Final Destination" movies. (he's like the embodiment of the film's concept)
I have to wonder if Simone will feel a need to have Barbara maintain some kind of relationship to the handicapped community to compensate for the loss of Oracle. It would then stand to reason that perhaps one of those characters could inherit Oracle's mantle in spirit if not in name as an outright replacement.
From: New York, NY | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
If they decide to introduce a new handicapped character/hero, I think I'd rather s/he did something unique to that character rather than simply do what Oracle did.
From: New York, NY | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
At long last I finally got around to reading Batgirl. Originally I had made the decision not to buy it at all: such was my outrage at the reversal of Barbara not being in the wheelchair anymore. But since I’m basically buying almost all the DCnU #1’s and reviewing them, I figured what the hell; its Gail, who I love and Adrian Syaf, who I really like, plus a character I love.
Since I was so adamant about not being down with this new status quo, I was waiting to read it and love it so then I’d be like “wow, I was wrong”, which has happened with some DCnU stuff already. Well, that didn’t happen. I actually thought it wasn’t terrible, but I didn’t really like it that much.
First, the elephant in the room: the fears I had about “losing” Oracle? Well, I feel those are kind of justified so far. We have Babs de-aged to her college years or just after college years; she’s just moving out of her Dad’s place to get a roommate. So sure, she’s smart and all, but all of that development as a character to become such a strong, admirable heroine seems to have taken a huge step backwards. Sure, she’s still incredibly smart and stuff, but you can clearly see she is not Oracle; she doesn’t have that immense edge that Wonder Woman, Superman, Batman, Flash, etc all have. As Oracle she was as top-tier as it got in the DCU. Now she’s no longer top tier. You can see that immediately in one issue. In terms of her not being in the wheelchair, well, yeah, that sucks too. That’s a huge loss to DC because that made her so unique and so different. Because let’s be honest, as Batgirl, there isn’t that much that is unique to her.
So that brings me to the next point: as Batgirl, we see her jumping through windows, kicking bad guys, riding around on a motorcycle and all around battling trouble-makers. Okay, cool. But we also have Batman, Nightwing, Batwoman, Black Canary, Huntress and so, so many others doing that. And let’s face it: Bats is the best. If there was a #2, it’s Dick. And Batwoman, though she’s much newer, has one of the very best written series in comics based on her #1 and what’s come before. So in order for Babs to stand out, she’s got to stand out. Nothing in this issue did that.
The end sequence where she freezes when a gun is pulled on her was heart-breaking to see. First, because of the traumatic effect on her. But second, because of how far she had gotten before. We saw her overcome her fear of violence; we saw her actually beat the shit out of the Joker. Are we going to see all that stuff again? Didn’t I just read all those stories over the last 15 years?
Syaf does a great job on the art but it wasn’t enough. I was really disappointed. I thought for sure I’d be proven wrong and I felt all those fears I had were totally justified.
I wanted to like it. I didn’t.
Cobie Comparison: Did I enjoy it as much as JL #1? No, not at all. This is among the lower tier of comics I’ve gotten so far. I’d rank it below Hawk & Dove, honestly.
From: If you don't want my peaches, honey... | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
Batgirl was on my pull list from the moment it was announced. Not because I approved of her not being Oracle and wheelchair-bound. Hell, I should have given it a pass because I absolutely loved Stephanie Brown's dearly departed Batgirl series that got the shaft in favor of this one. But I do love Barbara Gordon and knowing that Gail Simone was onboard gave it an automatic spot. If pretty much anyone else was writing it, I'd have given it a pass.
Plus, well, I have to admit to rooting for Babs to at least get out of the chair someday. In a Universe of woders, it didn't seem like she should necessarily be in this state indefinitely. It's been teased and discussed a lot over the years, and you just knew if it ever happened, she'd be Batgirl again. That's not something I ever necessarily desired, but I empathized with the character enough to hope for her.
So what did I think? Well, after mostly negative reviews here and elsewhere, I was expecting to hate it. But I didn't. Did I love it? Well, no, not exactly. But it was well-written and beautifully rendered, and I definitely enjoyed it.
What really hurts this book for many readers is the loss of Oracle. I miss her, too, and don't like those stories being done away with, either. I'm not sure if this would have been an easier sell if in the new continuity, they'd simply said Barbara was never shot. Instead, she still was but apparently never made the leap to becoming computer genius to the superheroes.
In other words, this is probably how Barbara's story would have played out had John Ostrander never come along and placed his ingenious mark on the character which grew and grew in the hands of writers like Chuck Dixon and Gail. If not for John, she probably would have been a background character for a while until somebody decided to cure her paralysis and put her in the cowl again. And if she was ever going to be Batgirl again, I guess it would work better if she had never been Oracle in the first place. This way, it doesn't seem as much a step backwards if that makes sense. Taken in that manner and in the general spirit that most of the DC Universe has been rebooted, maybe this take becomes easier to embrace.
Or maybe not. Oracle was great, and it's impossible to forget her incredible stories and role over the past two decades. Hell, there isn't so much clamor over the key marriages being dissolved and the JSA being removed from this world's history. It can color how one judges a book on its own merits. Me, I've seen reboot after reboot of my beloved Legion and stuck with it, so I guess I apply that to what's been done here.
Reading this first issue, it's clear to me, at least, what makes this book and character stand out and justify its existence among the books that Cobalt mentions, including the excellent Batwoman book. It's unique because it's about a woman looking to stage a comeback. From being in a wheelchair. From being rusty as a hero. From living in fear.
Gail painted that mission statement very well for me in this first issue, and I got it. Yes, we've seen Barbara come back from these things as Oracle in the former continuity. Now, we are going to see if she can do it in this new one as Batgirl instead. And at this point I'm onboard. If Gail and Ardian Syaf stay chronicling her adventures, I trust that it will be a journey worth taking.
That said, if there was one thing (other than preconceptions) that took me out of the story, it was wondering how Barbara knew where the home invasion was taking place. Did she just happen to spot them through the open window? Seemed like low odds that she would happen to spot it. Any lead she mentioned seemed pretty vague. Not as bad as the logistical issues I had with Action Comics #1's train sequence but still a puzzler.
Nice full page spread of Babs swinging over Gotham. The Mirror looks interesting, and I'm curious to see what his deal is. I guess he doesn't like people beating the odds?
Curious to see what all Gail has up her sleeve....
-------------------- "Suck it, depressos!"--M. Lash
From: The Underbelly of Society | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
So with month #1 over for the DCnU, I’ve found myself collecting far too many DC titles. In month #2 there are several that just have to be cut. The two I’d been leaning towards the most are Mr. Terrific (haven’t read yet) and Batgirl (my earlier post explains my disappointment). I grabbed Batgirl #2 with this in mind, seeing it as a chance for the series to overcome that hurdle and convince me to keep buying. Quite simply put: it didn’t.
The loss of Oracle still stings. She was one DC’s most unique heroines that could stand on her own and now I feel a lot of that is lost. The bottom line is that all “Bat-“ characters fall within a food chain and Batman is #1; Nightwing is #2. Oracle had moved beyond that and now as Batgirl she’s right back in there. I want to be proven wrong but all this series has done so far is the opposite: it’s proving me right since this story is pretty run of the mill and could easily be foil for Stephanie, Cassandra, Huntress, Batwoman, and so many other female vigilantes related to the Bat-universe.
The art by Syaf is good and the writing by Gail is a bit by the numbers though not bad by any means. But its hard to justify why I’m collecting this series when I hate the entire concept of why it exists; if it was really that fantastic, I’d feel obligated to buy it because it was great. I don’t feel that here at all.
Lardy brings up a few really nice points:
quote:Originally posted by Lard Lad: What really hurts this book for many readers is the loss of Oracle. I miss her, too, and don't like those stories being done away with, either. I'm not sure if this would have been an easier sell if in the new continuity, they'd simply said Barbara was never shot. Instead, she still was but apparently never made the leap to becoming computer genius to the superheroes.
In other words, this is probably how Barbara's story would have played out had John Ostrander never come along and placed his ingenious mark on the character which grew and grew in the hands of writers like Chuck Dixon and Gail. If not for John, she probably would have been a background character for a while until somebody decided to cure her paralysis and put her in the cowl again. And if she was ever going to be Batgirl again, I guess it would work better if she had never been Oracle in the first place. This way, it doesn't seem as much a step backwards if that makes sense. Taken in that manner and in the general spirit that most of the DC Universe has been rebooted, maybe this take becomes easier to embrace.
Or maybe not. Oracle was great, and it's impossible to forget her incredible stories and role over the past two decades. Hell, there isn't so much clamor over the key marriages being dissolved and the JSA being removed from this world's history. It can color how one judges a book on its own merits. Me, I've seen reboot after reboot of my beloved Legion and stuck with it, so I guess I apply that to what's been done here.
Reading this first issue, it's clear to me, at least, what makes this book and character stand out and justify its existence among the books that Cobalt mentions, including the excellent Batwoman book. It's unique because it's about a woman looking to stage a comeback. From being in a wheelchair. From being rusty as a hero. From living in fear.
Gail painted that mission statement very well for me in this first issue, and I got it. Yes, we've seen Barbara come back from these things as Oracle in the former continuity. Now, we are going to see if she can do it in this new one as Batgirl instead. And at this point I'm onboard. If Gail and Ardian Syaf stay chronicling her adventures, I trust that it will be a journey worth taking.
I get what you’re saying and if that is what Gail is truly shooting for, I can understand that being the thematic purpose of the series. Basically, the way I’m seeing it, its as if from the point Ostrander took the shattered Barbara and turned her into Oracle, and then everything thereafter, has been totally erased and reset. We now have a chance to see what would have happened had she taken another path, and not gone the route of Oracle, but rather, reclaimed her role as Batgirl.
And to me, that sounds awful. The very best part about Barbara Gordon (for me) was that she went on to become Oracle and overcome what happened to her. Sure, I liked that idea of Batgirl, but I had not great connection to the character from those days and no great desire to see her reclaim that persona. In this scenario, DC has lost all of the elements that made Barbara Oracle, from her years getting comfortable in that role and dominating it, to the relationships she made along the way.
I like a good comeback story too. Hell, the Daredevil “Born Again” story is among what I’d consider a contender for my favorite comic book story EVER. But all I’m seeing her is a character from 1987 about to make a comeback, while the character I knew and loved has been completely deleted. Because in 1987 I had no real connection to Barbara / Batgirl.
So I’m out. However, I don’t knock anyone for wanting this to succeed and enjoying the series (different tastes and all that).
From: If you don't want my peaches, honey... | Registered: Sep 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Cobalt Kid: But its hard to justify why I’m collecting this series when I hate the entire concept of why it exists... So I’m out.
Ah, learn well you do. Mastery, you may yet achieve
-------------------- My views are my own and do not reflect those of everyone else... and I wouldn't have it any other way.
posted
Of all the new villains from the new DCU I've read, the one I find most intriguing is The Mirror, at least so far.
If the aim is to invent recurring opponents, this one's the one I'd like to read about again. The Trench, NOWHERE, a seemingly endless list of shady government agencies (yawn)... any rival the 'old' villains for any readers out there?
From: Knoxville, TN | Registered: Jul 2003
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![[Confused]](confused.gif)
? Some of the DC October solicits are mindnumbingly headscratching... mostly the trades.![[LOL]](graemlins/lol.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
)
![[shrug]](graemlins/shrug.gif)
Not as bad as the logistical issues I had with Action Comics #1's train sequence but still a puzzler.
