quote:Originally posted by Set: I loved Byrne's Alpha Flight stuff (and hated what later writers did with those characters).
Good God! Bill Mantlo turned the book into the most depressing, dark and soul-less shadow of the book it had been. I know Byrne killed off two characters (sort of) while on the book, but there was still a certain upbeat quality to it, regardless somehow. But Mantlo--!
Off the top of my head was Mantlo's treatment of Roger Bachs/Box I. Here was a chance to show a parapalegic character as an active, heroic figure, and Mantlo just had him wallow in self-pity and spiral into going to great lengths to compensate. There was no redemptive arc at all. In the end, Bachs dies a pathetic death. Absolutely disgusting!
And there was a lot more where that came from. I don't like to speak ill of Mantlo because of his major health problems, but he absolutely ran a previously fun book into the ground.
-------------------- "Suck it, depressos!"--M. Lash
From: The Underbelly of Society | Registered: Jul 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Set: I loved [Byrne's] clean art in the beginning, and that of similar artists who used that style. After awhile, the fact that it was pretty much impossible to tell his Cyclops from his Superman from his Guardian from that dude with the super-vision in the Next Men, because he drew all of their faces and bodies and square-jaws the same, dampened that affection.
Certainly, Byrne's art style seems very dated at this point. There are very few artists from bygone eras whose art has a timeless feel to it. You could argue that some of the giants have a certain simplicity or cartoonish aspect to their work that may seem less sophisticated than some of the more comparatively realistic artists of today.
I say good art is good art. Byrne, Kirby, Neal Adams, Ditko, Romita, Swan and a truckload of others may have aspects to their work that date them by comparison, but if it's attractive and tells a story well, it's good art. Period. Definitely, there's a sameness to Byrne's faces, but I'd argue that terrific facial differentiation was never a common feature of comics for a long, long time. And there are still very many "modern" artists who struggle with it, as well.
One thing the old school definitely, indisputably has over the new school? The ability to make deadlines!
-------------------- "Suck it, depressos!"--M. Lash
From: The Underbelly of Society | Registered: Jul 2003
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Set
There's not a word yet, for old friends who've just met.
posted
quote:Originally posted by Officer Taylor: Good God! Bill Mantlo turned the book into the most depressing, dark and soul-less shadow of the book it had been. I know Byrne killed off two characters (sort of) while on the book, but there was still a certain upbeat quality to it, regardless somehow. But Mantlo--!
Off the top of my head was Mantlo's treatment of Roger Bachs/Box I. Here was a chance to show a parapalegic character as an active, heroic figure, and Mantlo just had him wallow in self-pity and spiral into going to great lengths to compensate. There was no redemptive arc at all. In the end, Bachs dies a pathetic death. Absolutely disgusting!
And there was a lot more where that came from. I don't like to speak ill of Mantlo because of his major health problems, but he absolutely ran a previously fun book into the ground.
So much craziness.
Heather Hudson turns from a short, slender waifish girl who only with serious reservations considers a role on the team (and who says very specifically that she couldn't anyway, as she doesn't have a copy of her husband's battlesuit hanging around) to a statuesque woman with hooters the size of her head who *shoots teammates who annoy her* with the copy of the battlesuit that she found lying around.
Northstar and Aurora are elves?
Puck is magically short and not an actual dwarf?
Bochs is sidelined for Madison Jeffries, who is magically transformed from a kinda fugly dude to a Bruce Springsteen clone.
Snowbird dies. Walter Langkowski dies, and comes back in Snowbird's body as 'Wanda.'
Shaman kipes his daughter's Talisman, changes his name and starts using completely different powers, for no apparent reason.
Just crazy stuff.
I loved Alpha Flight, and every change after Byrne left was just painful, it seemed.
Registered: Aug 2006
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posted
You said it, big guy! Artists who can't make deadlines are akin to the pits!
I like the old days where editors were jerks and grabbed another artist to do a fill-in and totally screw up the books direction and feel. As if to say "now we all suffer for it".
From: If you don't want my peaches, honey... | Registered: Sep 2003
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quote:Originally posted by CJ Taylor: I think similar thoughts about Alex Ross and his refusal to let go of the Silver Age, in favour of modernism.
[heresy] I really don't like his painted artwork, which seems to be really popular. [/heresy]
Ross paints some pretty pictures. But there's no dynamic to it all. His stories feel like a clip book as opposed to actual storytelling. Even his work on JUSTICE with Doug Braithwaite seemed too posed.
From: Denver, CO | Registered: May 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Officer Taylor: One thing the old school definitely, indisputably has over the new school? The ability to make deadlines!
Allred reminds me a lot of that old school art, light on the backgrounds, detailed on the facial expressions. Reliable, fun to look at, pretty stuff.
JRJR much the same. He doesn't have the detail of a David Finch, but it's just great to look at.
From: Denver, CO | Registered: May 2004
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posted
I agree somewhat on Alex Ross art. I loved Marvels and Kingdom Come but a lot of his subsequent work I've realized is just a bit too flat for me. He works best on one-shots and minis that max out around four issues. More than that I start to feel like they are going to slow.
Love Allred & JR Jr. I once shot an unarmed man for speaking ill of them.
From: If you don't want my peaches, honey... | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
A while back in this thread, we did a list of favourite creators, even favourite teams.
I wonder- are there any artists that would make you buy a book, regardless of story quality? Any that would make you drop a book?
From: Denver, CO | Registered: May 2004
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posted
Two artists would make me buy a book regardless of story quality -- Steve Epting, for combining the best of the old and the new styles, and Alan Davis, who is truly unique and almost always gives it his all.
posted
There are a few for me. Darwyn Cooke, Mike Allred, George Perez. I bet there are more but I can't think of them right now. Steve Epting has basically moved into this category.
Two newer artists who I've decided I will buy their stuff regardless of writer are Marcos Martin and Javier Rodriguez, whose Spider-Man work I simply just LOVE. Possibly Mark Buckingham at this point.
Some artists are ones who's stuff I'd "check out" for a minimum 3 issues but would drop if the story was awful. I suspect the majority of us have these. This includes Amanda Conner, Jim Lee, Todd McFarlane, Butch Guice, Ryan Sook.
In days of yore, I'd buy anything by Jack Kirby or Steve Ditko. Still will, actually, as my Dad and I buy all their stuff immediately if we can find it. We'll buy a crazy expensive monster comic book from Marvel for a 6 page Ditko back-up. Also Wally Wood.
To a lesser degree Lou Fine, but you've gotta really have some $$ to do that.
Also, there are some artists whose artwork I enjoy quite a bit and consider a "nice bonus", like Johnny Romita Jr. I didn't go out of my way to buy his Black Panther stories or Kick-Ass, but I love his art on the comics I'm already collecting, especially Spidey and DD. I would put Alan Davis in this category as well for me.
From: If you don't want my peaches, honey... | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
I can't think of any that would make me drop a book outright, but there are a few whose styles make me more inclined to do so: Humberto Ramos, Skottie Young, Carlos Pacheao and Salvador Larocca. They're crazy style just isn't my thing, especially Ramos. Pacheao and Larocca (I bet I spelled their names wrong), I can live with if the story is decent like the recent Spider-Man Lizard story.
Also, the more manga the art is, the less I'm inclined to keep collecting it.
From: If you don't want my peaches, honey... | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
I used to be a rabbid follower of many artists like Byrne, Perez, Davis and several others, but I won't buy anything anymore just because of who's drawing it with one exception. Sure, an artist's attachment to a project is likely to make me at least think about it when I ordinarily wouldn't, but it's far from a done deal at this point.
The lone exception, btw, would be that Darwyn Cooke fella! He's one hep cat!
-------------------- "Suck it, depressos!"--M. Lash
From: The Underbelly of Society | Registered: Jul 2003
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quote:Originally posted by CJ Taylor: I wonder- are there any artists that would make you buy a book, regardless of story quality? Any that would make you drop a book?
Having thought about this for a while, I'd have to say no to both.
I would have said Perez, but I realize that I haven't even decided on "Games" yet.
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