quote:There's a big difference between how the creators see values and how much backlash the publisher is willing to deal with. Making a seriously popular hero (aka a valuable property) gay is a financial risk and this is a business, first and foremost, so I don't think their values have the last word.
I disagree. If sponsors or parent groups would object to Kevin Keller, then they'd be boycotting Archie, no less than if Jughead were suddenly revealed to be gay. If such sponsors would object to Batwoman, they'd be boycotting DC, no less than if an "icon" (though from the hints they've dropped, it's certainly not one of the really big names) were suddenly revealed to be gay. Clearly, the publishers in the comics companies are not seeing any serious loss of revenue from the high-enough profile pro-gay-rights matter they've put out there.
The creators and the publishers are quite comfortable with a pro-gay-rights position nowadays.
-------------------- Chaim Mattis Keller ckeller@nyc.rr.com Legion-Reference-File Lad
From: New York, NY, USA | Registered: Nov 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
Certainly with Batwoman and plenty of supporting characters over the years, the waters have been tested.
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada | Registered: Dec 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
I personally feel that Alan Scott or any of the Earth-Two characters would be pretty underwhelming choices. If they're making such a big deal of it, then it should be a prominent character in the primary reality. This choice may have some reverb through the comics-reading community, but the effect on the general public would be a huh? (if even that).
I feel that Alfred Pennyworth or Jimmy Olsen would both be much better choices because everyone knows those characters from their respective mythos. But if the "reintroduce" part is correct, I guess we won't get that.
Aside: If somehow it does end up being Alfred, I wonder if that could be a multi-media thing with something in Dark Knight Rises being done on-screen with Michael Caine's portrayal? The timing would be phenomenal! Now THAT would be something seismic!
-------------------- "Suck it, depressos!"--M. Lash
From: The Underbelly of Society | Registered: Jul 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
Well, I might have missed a page here, but, if it's not Alan Scott, just saying because it's fun to guess, maybe it's one of the Marvels. Ya think?
Perhaps Marvel Jr.?
And have we seen Lex Luthor, yet?
He, and/or Shazam would make interesting copy for characters who have been around for a very long time.
-------------------- 'In the twinkling of an eye' I'll be dancing in the sky!
Come, join me!
From: Salem, Oregon USA | Registered: Aug 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
Captain Marvel is about to appear in the backup in Justice League. We have seen Billy and Mary, but not as their heroic alter egos. But I think they would not use Captain Marvel because of the whole boy/man paradigm of the character. There are still too many people who freak out when it comes to kids and being gay.
Luthor we have seen in Action Comics. But I doubt it will be a villain.
Apparently the One Million Moms group has heard about this and Northstar's upcoming wedding and are none too pleased.
-------------------- Five billion years from now the Sun will go nova and obliterate the Earth. Don't sweat the small stuff!
From: Boston | Registered: Aug 2003
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Quislet, Esq: Apparently the One Million Moms group has heard about this and Northstar's upcoming wedding and are none too pleased.
Yeah...1 million if you count each of them a couple hundred times.
From: Turn around... | Registered: Jul 2003
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Lard Lad: I personally feel that Alan Scott or any of the Earth-Two characters would be pretty underwhelming choices. If they're making such a big deal of it, then it should be a prominent character in the primary reality. This choice may have some reverb through the comics-reading community, but the effect on the general public would be a huh? (if even that).
I feel that Alfred Pennyworth or Jimmy Olsen would both be much better choices because everyone knows those characters from their respective mythos. But if the "reintroduce" part is correct, I guess we won't get that.
Aside: If somehow it does end up being Alfred, I wonder if that could be a multi-media thing with something in Dark Knight Rises being done on-screen with Michael Caine's portrayal? The timing would be phenomenal! Now THAT would be something seismic!
I think they definitely want a hero not a supporting character.
Between Alfred & Jimmy, I'd prefer it to be Jimmy. In a way Alfred has been the female character in the Batman household*, so it would make him being gay seem just too stereotypical. Plus with the whole Batman/Robin being gay thing since the 50s makes me think DC will stay away from the Batman family for this. Although a tie-in with Dark Knight Rises is intriguing.
*In this I am talking about supporting characters that when you hear the supporting character, you can name the hero. Lois & Jimmy are tied to Superman. Iris Allen is tied to the Flash. Carol Ferris is tied to Green Lantern. Mera is tied to Aquaman. With Batman, you think of Robin, Commissioner Gordon, and Alfred. No female counterweight as it were. And of the three, Alfred performs those household tasks that have been historically female tasks.
-------------------- Five billion years from now the Sun will go nova and obliterate the Earth. Don't sweat the small stuff!
From: Boston | Registered: Aug 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
Quis, according to Bleeding Cool, "sources" say it is indeed Alan Scott as you've suggested. They're not calling it confirmation, but history tells me BC's sources are much more reliable than they are not.
If this is the case, I'm not really upset. However, it does likely mean no Jade or Obsidian as we've known them. Both have a faithful cult following.
Again, I don't think doing this with Alan Scott is all that seismic in terms of DC making a statement. Given the alternate Earth setting and his obscurity to non-comic fans and to even some actual comic fans, the choice seems pretty "ho-hum".
The more I think of it, the more I like your logic behind the character actually being Jimmy Olsen over Alfred. It would have been much braver of DC, IMO, than Alan Scott. If sources are correct...oh well.
-------------------- "Suck it, depressos!"--M. Lash
From: The Underbelly of Society | Registered: Jul 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
It's not like Northstar is all that non-obscure to non-comic book fans.
Still, no one (but the rabidly anti-gay) thought it would be any of the top tier characters.
And don't count Jade or Obsidian out. Gay men have been known to father children. Although storywise, even if Alan Scott was heterosexual, he needs to have contact with the ring/lantern/starheart before any kids he fathers get powers. So, you would still be looking at 10-15 years before you could have Jade or Obsidian. Although, comic years don't match real life years as we all know.
-------------------- Five billion years from now the Sun will go nova and obliterate the Earth. Don't sweat the small stuff!
From: Boston | Registered: Aug 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
CMK you're welcome to disagree but I would rather you understood my actual point and disagree with that if you like. I'm not talking about just any character, or new characters, or supporting characters. They are not going to take a risk of making Superman or Batman gay. That would reduce the character's significant monetary value. Batwoman was a new character (more or less:)), without any significant fan following and certainly no established multimillion dollar movie franchise.
While creating new characters who are gay (such as Kevin Keller) may make tiny fringe groups boycott the company as a whole, it's not the same as the as risking the biggest moneymaking properties' popularity with the still-sizeable American population that are uncomfortable enough with the idea that they'll skip a movie because "my Superman isn't gay". As much as the country has progressed, Rachel Maddow just mentioned tonight that gay marriage has still been voted down in EVERY state where the public has voted on it. (Hoping Maryland will change that soon!)
I would also point out that making Archie gay would have a similar reaction, but making Jughead gay would have a lot of people just saying "oh that explains it!"
From: Manhattan, NY | Registered: May 2011
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Quislet, Esq: It's not like Northstar is all that non-obscure to non-comic book fans.
Hey, never said Northstar wasn't obscure. He's relevant to this conversation only so far as he's Marvel's supposedly big concurrent gay splash. Alan Scott is less obscure than Jean-Paul Beaubier but not that much less. And if you boil it down to a blurb of "Green Lantern's Gay", you'd have to put an asterisk explaining that it's not the guy Ryan Reynolds played in that movie that bombed but a blond guy who was the original Green Lantern in the '40s who lives on a parallel Earth! Say WHAT?!?!
Yeah, in THAT sense Vibe would be a better choice. At least he's an obscure guy who doesn't require much explanation. I think that if DC's gonna have a big "mystery gay" tease like it is, then the pay-off should be bigger. Otherwise, why the big deal?
The goal to me should be for gay characters to be ordinary and accepted parts of popular fiction, not the equivalent of movies-of-the-week. Alan Scott being remade as a gay character and trying to get massive publicity for it sounds like a cheap afterschool special. Jimmy Olsen...well, that would've been worthy of all this hubbub.
I will say this for Marvel: them having a gay character, however obscure, get married is at least a viable political statement in a time where the topic is hot and in the headlines every day. If DC is simply reimagining Alan Scott as gay, how can that compare? It's just a cheap move on their part to say, "hey, we're LGBT friendly, too!" when they've already got a book headlined by a lesbian heroine. The fact that Batwoman is the first(?) Big Two solo comic book featuring a LGBT star speaks for itself, I'd say. Too "last year", maybe?
Leave it to Archie Comics to show them BOTH the way with their Kevin Keller character!
Crap, I need to stop rambling! I hope y'all get my point?
-------------------- "Suck it, depressos!"--M. Lash
From: The Underbelly of Society | Registered: Jul 2003
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Quislet, Esq: And don't count Jade or Obsidian out. Gay men have been known to father children. Although storywise, even if Alan Scott was heterosexual, he needs to have contact with the ring/lantern/starheart before any kids he fathers get powers. So, you would still be looking at 10-15 years before you could have Jade or Obsidian. Although, comic years don't match real life years as we all know.
Yeah, after I posted that, I realized that Alan being gay wouldn't preclude him fathering children, so that was stupid on my part. Gay parenting in a mainstream superhero book would actually be another step forward!
-------------------- "Suck it, depressos!"--M. Lash
From: The Underbelly of Society | Registered: Jul 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
Alan Scott sure seems to be the front runner (hee-hee!). That would eliminate one of my favorite of all superhero romances, though-- between Alan and Molly Mayne, the supervillainess-only-to-catch-her-man's-attention and the original Harlequin. Yeah, ol' Harley Quinn and her obsession with the Joker exists as a variation of the original. Roy Thomas once considered adding a male Harlequin to Infinity, Inc. I guess that could happen, and I might even enjoy it, but I'd always miss Molly and her wacky expanding lute and goofy romantic m.o. I was slightly optmistic about the prospect of reading a 'modern' take on the original Harlequin (the only thing I was making lemonade out of the lemons of all the 'youthening') Sigh. Even the moves D.C. make in their new universe that I'd ordinarily like have some ramification that saddens me. Which means it most likely is Alan Scott. 'Cause I don't want it to be.
From: Knoxville, TN | Registered: Jul 2003
| IP: Logged |
Hyperpath: Email this page to someone!
Printer-friendly view of this topic | Subscribe To Topic
![[Yes]](graemlins/nod.gif)
![[shrug]](graemlins/shrug.gif)
![[AHHHH!!!!]](graemlins/scream.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
