posted
More on THE SPY WHO LOVED ME... and it's not pretty!
After GOLDEN GUN, Saltzman sold out his share. I can't imagine why anybody would do a thing like that, unless he thought the series was bottoming out and he needed a sudden influx of cash to finance something else. Seems to me I read his film career flounded after he split with Broccoli.
NOBODY knew what to do with SPY. Fleming had it in the contract they could use the title and NOTHING ELSE. They hatched an idea to bring back SPECTRE, and in fact have a young group of anarchist-terrorists assassinate the board of directors and take over the organization for world-destructive reasons. They changed their mind-- too scary perhaps?-- and decided to bring Blofeld back again, since he really hadn't been killed off properly in that abomination that so many seem to love so much, DIAMONDS ARE FOREVER.
The 10-year grace period with Kevin McClory had run its course since THUNDERBALL, and with no original ideas in mind, he decided it was time to do a remake. He put out a court order against Broccoli to prevent him from using Blofeld & SPECTRE. In retaliation, Broccoli sued him for... something. (Don't ask me what!) Broccoli thumbed his nose as McClory, eliminated SPECTRE and changed the villain's name to Carl Stromberg. Too bad, Curt Jurgens would have finally been able to play the part he was really, really right for. Dumb, stupid lawsuits...
SPY became "James Bonds's Greatest Hits". It doesn't feel like it was written, it feels like it was assembled-- and by the stunt arrangers. Take all the "best" scenes from the previous movies, and redo them-- BIGGER!!! The ski chase (including a guy going off a cliff) from OHMSS. A big craft swallowing a small craft (YOLT). An indestructible henchman (GOLDFINGER). A fight on a train (FROM RUSSIA WITH LOVE and LIVE AND LET DIE). Meeting the baddie followed by a car chase (YOLT). Underwater battle (THUNDERBALL). A guy trying to start WW3 (YOLT-- let's face it, SPY is a REMAKE of YOU ONLY LIVE TWICE!!!). What nobody ever mentioned in any article I ever read was the idea of a tanker swallowing a submarine came from the 007 comic-strip adaptation of-- THE SPY WHO LOVED ME! (That part certainly wasn't in the book. Comics continue to get no respect.)
I believe someone pointed out the absurdity of a guy skiing off a cliff while wearing a parachute. Was he planning to go that way? Otherwise... WHY?
Stromberg goes to insane lengths to have people killed. First, he shows the 2 scientists the way he kills his secretary, who stole the blueprints. Then, he has their helicopter blown up.
At the pyramids, WHY does Fekkesh run away from the safety of a crowd to an isolated spot, making his murder so much easier? What was he doing with a key to that tomb? Doesn't it seem stupid of Anya to have TWO guys she's talking with walk away only to be killed? Did James & Anya really think Jaws was unaware of them jumping into his van? Why go ALL the way out to the Karnak Temple? When she had the drop on him, WHY didn't Anya SHOOT the bastard? Why did Jaws WASTE his time ripping the van to pieces, all the while never once touching the people he appears to be trying to kill (apart from the fact that it allowed Roger Moore to rattle off the funniest string of one-liners in the film)?
WHAT is M, and an entire contingent of Q Branch, doing in Egypt? Why did James & Anya travel by train, when Q travelled by boat (apart from creating an excuse for the train fight)? If Stromberg knew they were spies, why not kill them when they were still at Atlantis? Back on shore, there's a motorcycle, a car AND a helicopter, waiting in sequence along the roadside. Were they so sure the previous killers would fail? Why does Naomi HOVER directly over the car? If Anya stole the plans of the Lotus, WHY does she appear frightened when James drives off the pier?
Now, I'm willing to let the BIG question of how is it possible for a gigantic tanker NOT to sink when you open up the entire front to the ocean. This is "science fiction" to some degree, maybe (like the rotating control tower of FIREBALL XL5) we can assume SOMEBODY figured out how to manage it. But if they could disable the American sub, WHY bring it onboard with all those men alive? Why were the crews of the 2 previous subs still alive? (Auric Goldfinger would not have approved-- look what HE did to his gangster "partners".) Why design a control room as if a siege with enemy soldiers was in mind? (The blast shield in YOLT made sense-- there was a spaceship launch pad right outside, after all!)
WHY does Bond SIT DOWN when Stromberg invites him to? HOW does Bond shoot Stromberg THROUGH the glass tube if a gun is ATTACHED to it at Stromberg's end-- and WHY is that tube there anyway??? WHY does Jaws fight Bond when, obviously, his boss is already dead? WHAT is that stupid ELECTRO-MAGNET doing hanging over a shark pool? And-- can't that STUPID Russian girl make up her freaking mind if she wants to KILL Bond or have SEX with him?
Incredibly, I think the guy who pointed all this out (in 007 magazine) suggested that MOONRAKER was like a remake of SPY-- only without all the logic problems. Maybe so! But that film was MUCH more stupid, in so many OTHER ways... and slow-moving and boring to boot.
Registered: Aug 2003
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posted
I haven't read all of this thread, but I just wanted to post that we had a mini Bond festival this evening... the Daniel Craig Bondfest!
Watching Casino Royale and Quantum of Solace back to back was very much like watching one long movie and I was quite entertained by all the Bond-ness of it all.
posted
Didn't know that Quantum was out. Will have to pick it up.
As for all the things wrong with the bond movies...i tend to seperate the movies from the books. I'm pretty good at compartmentalizing.
I do think that its fun to find all the things that went on, and all the parts left out, or changed, but I judge each movie on its merits in a timely fashion. By that I mean that I don't judge say OHMSS by todays standards, but by the standards of when it actually came out.
Like Dalton. Liked him in Flash Gordon, liked him in other things, but I can't watch his bond without thinking that he's constantly going to cry. WTF?
The later Moore movies nearly sunk the franchise. Dalton might have done it for the worldwide market, but he couldn't pull in the american market. Brosnan is now being, wrongly I feel, placed in the Moore later period because of that rather lame Die Another Day (Madonna...dear god somebody chop her head off and let the body go on running for a few years, she might be worthy of being cat crap then), when Goldeneye was very good, The World is Not Enough was fair, and tomorrow never dies was just fun. Michelle Yeo...oooooohhhhh. Homer liiiiiiiiiiiikes donuts!
-------------------- Damn you, you kids! Get off my lawn or I'm callin' tha cops!
posted
Okay, I really enjoyed Quantum at the movies, and I have seen it on a site on the puter', but watching the DVD (I bought it, so, no stealing for me)I got a much better flow for the movie. I left the theater thinking that it was almost too much of an action movie and there was no depth to it, like CR.
I guess it was just the first viewing and selective memory, because it played on DVD so damn much better it ain't funny.
It played so much better, I even kinda liked the theme song this time.
One thing, and it is a stupid, minor, extremely minor quibble. Apparantly, he has a healing factor, lol. Cuts and scrapes on his face seem to completly heal in a days time.
One other thing, was Fields supposed to be nekkid under that trenchcoat? I mean, its central america, which is hot and muggy from humidity, and she's wearing a trenchcoat? Tres Kinky!
Strawberry Fields forever!
-------------------- Damn you, you kids! Get off my lawn or I'm callin' tha cops!
quote:Originally posted by rickshaw1: Okay, I really enjoyed Quantum at the movies, and I have seen it on a site on the puter', but watching the DVD (I bought it, so, no stealing for me)I got a much better flow for the movie. I left the theater thinking that it was almost too much of an action movie and there was no depth to it, like CR.
I guess it was just the first viewing and selective memory, because it played on DVD so damn much better it ain't funny.
It played so much better, I even kinda liked the theme song this time.
One thing, and it is a stupid, minor, extremely minor quibble. Apparantly, he has a healing factor, lol. Cuts and scrapes on his face seem to completly heal in a days time.
One other thing, was Fields supposed to be nekkid under that trenchcoat? I mean, its central america, which is hot and muggy from humidity, and she's wearing a trenchcoat? Tres Kinky!
Strawberry Fields forever!
Having just watched Quantum on DVD it is a much denser movie than I realized watcing it in the movie theater. Lots of interesting bits, as in just what is Mr. White up to?
I am looking forward to one day having the time to watch Royale and Quantum back to back.
Fields was quite hot. Red hair, trench coat, nose in the air. >>>panting<<<
-------------------- So what.
From: Harrisburg, PA | Registered: Apr 2006
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My late partner, David, was a big Bond fan. He was always eager to see any new Bond movie the weekend it was released. I decided to stick my head in the sand and not go see Skyfall just to avoid the sadness and memories. Then I started to hear the reviews. Some critics are calling it the best Bond film ever. I decided to buck up, and check it out.
I'm so glad I did. I won't dive into the "best Bond film ever" debate, but I have no hesitation in saying this is a damn good movie and recommending it highly. It definitely forges new ground, and has some entertaining elements that will keep the interest of none Bond fans. There are enough fun and clever Easter eggs and hat tips to the past for the traditionalists to be satisfied. The story is told in a way that makes it clear that they are trying to update things, but does so in a respectful manner. Daniel Craig continues to master the role. This performance adds fuel for those who want to argue that he is the best Bond actor. Again, a debate I won't engage in, but I will give him a thumbs up. Judi Dench gets a much meatier role this time around, and gives an excellent performance.
[ November 12, 2012, 05:42 PM: Message edited by: Jerry ]
-------------------- No regrets, Coyote.
From: Missouri | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
I went to see Skyfall a few nights ago. I loved it! I don't know if it is the best Bond movie ever, but it ceratainly would be among the top contenders. Very enjoyable film!
From: Cincinnati | Registered: Jul 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Jerry: It definitely forges new ground,...
I don't know about that - I enjoyed it, but it struck me as a very "genie back in the bottle" movie. Casino Royale gave us a Bond who was learning to be "Bond, James Bond". Now, after the digression that was Quantum of Solace (where they didn't use The James Bond Theme... why?), Skyfall completes the trip - with a new Q (who, as in the original Q's debut, just gives him a gun), a new Moneypenny, and replaces Judi Dench with an M entirely in line with Bernard Lee, the original cinematic M. Add in stuff like the Goldfinger DB5 (and why was that tricked out since this is a reboot? He won a DB5 in CR, but I doubt that involved an ejector seat...), and this was a Bond movie that wanted to be 60s Bond at the core.
-------------------- My views are my own and do not reflect those of everyone else... and I wouldn't have it any other way.
posted
For me, the forging ahead took place on several levels. I didn't see it so much as putting the "genie back in the bottle" but as cleverly acknowledging that the genie can't really be put back in the bottle. I found myself thinking a lot of Rachel Maddow's book Drift while watching the movie. Maddow spends some time in the later chapters arguing that much of what we used to consider to be the job of the military has shifted to the intelligence community - in effect changing the role and purpose of intelligence. The exchanges during M's testimony and Bond's conversations with the new Q brought some of that out. Are we at a point in time where nothing exists in the shadows or where everything of substance exists in the shadows? Fascinating stuff to think about. This film asked those questions transparently, and in a way that I haven't seen a movie do before. These are questions that are relevant for both the real world, and the Bond franchise.
Beyond that, the special effects moved to a more modern level. The whole issue of spies using over the top gadgets was both made fun and honored with a clever balance. It kind of gets to the heart of the question regarding whether these elements are essential to a Bond film. It's a question that has to be addressed for the franchise to move forward.
-------------------- No regrets, Coyote.
From: Missouri | Registered: Oct 2003
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Skyfall...was disappointing. It had some good moments to be sure, but overall... meh. Yes, some superficial changes were made. I guess Ms. Dench's contract was up or something. Bardeem was wasted, I thought. This Bond movie seemed as... weepy... as the last Dalton movie did.
The plot was a bit retreaded from both Brosnan's debut and Craig's. I was glad to see the goofy gadgets kind of fade away, but like Reboot said, some things didn't fit.
I'd give it a C.
-------------------- Damn you, you kids! Get off my lawn or I'm callin' tha cops!
quote:Originally posted by rickshaw1: I guess Ms. Dench's contract was up or something.
Eh? Dame Judi is 77 - her M would have been retired a decade earlier in real life! (Plus she's going blind - she can't actually read scripts any more, she needs them read to her).
Finnes is, at just shy of 50, actually on the young side.
quote:Originally posted by rickshaw1: This Bond movie seemed as... weepy... as the last Dalton movie did.
*liked Licence to Kill*
quote:Originally posted by rickshaw1: I was glad to see the goofy gadgets kind of fade away,...
Eh? There was more gadgetry in this film than either of its two immediate predecessors.
-------------------- My views are my own and do not reflect those of everyone else... and I wouldn't have it any other way.
quote:Originally posted by rickshaw1: I guess Ms. Dench's contract was up or something.
Eh? Dame Judi is 77 - her M would have been retired a decade earlier in real life! (Plus she's going blind - she can't actually read scripts any more, she needs them read to her).
Sorry to hear that. Always liked her.
[QUOCTE]Finnes is, at just shy of 50, actually on the young side. [qb]
Okay.
quote:Originally posted by rickshaw1: [qb]This Bond movie seemed as... weepy... as the last Dalton movie did.
*liked Licence to Kill* Okay. I thought he looked like he was about to cry all the time.
quote:Originally posted by rickshaw1: I was glad to see the goofy gadgets kind of fade away,...
Eh? There was more gadgetry in this film than either of its two immediate predecessors.
What gadgets? Other than the oddly refitted car after the CR reboot, he had a gun and a radio. Not really gadgety in my book. I thought the phone was more along those lines in CR. But compared to Moore's and Connery's, yeah, they've faded away.
-------------------- Damn you, you kids! Get off my lawn or I'm callin' tha cops!
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